007 MU Talks - Covid19 Coronavirus And Schools Moving To Online Education

Foreign.

This is not your normal podcast.

This is not the normal heartbeat.

The world has gone crazy.

It's gone crazy on us since we've done our last episode. But thank you for joining a new episode of MU Talks Pandemic. Today we're talking about pandemic and we're going to talk about coronavirus and we're going to talk about schools moving to online or remote education or this.

And this is, this is actually a great topic for us because Aline is our CAO here at the school, so responsible for some of these decisions, but also spent a decade or so in leading online education. So he's gonna be able to answer some questions about that, he's gonna be able to talk about that, maybe even reassure, if I could even say that.

Yes.

Because good things can happen with online education.

Oh, great things can happen with online education. I just wish we had proper time to unpack and prepare some of our faculty that are gonna move to online. But I'm very comfortable with, with faculty among and how, how we're handling this. And I'm not just saying to give a shout out, you know, an empty one. Empty shout out to faculty. I'm, I'm being real about this.

Yeah.

But I do want us to rest a little bit with, with coronavirus. So I'm, we're not, we're not medical doctors. We need to put that disclaimer in there. I'm not, I don't know, maybe you have, you know, you have some experience with that, but I'm none at all. I am as eligible for coronavirus as anybody else around us.

Right.

So we look at news, we look at social media, we look at what's going on. I am going to read an interesting, like just a little excerpt from the Economist. Right. And the Economist this morning, this morning actually said the pandemic is spreading fast. To see what is to come, look at Lombardy, the affluent Italian region at the heart of the COVID 19 outbreak in Europe. Until last week. So this is this morning. Until last week, they thought they, they would cope with the disease. Now exhausted staff at world class hospitals are being forced to leave untreated pat to die. Yeah, well, you know, this is, this is not, this is not a time to be dramatic and it's not a time to be fatalist and it's not a time to really emphasize on some of the things, but it is a time to be realistic and there are some things happening around us. Right. I am not. I, I'll start with the negative. I just start with the Negative. I, I think, and I'm going to go straight for Christians. I think we need to be very, very, very careful of how we deal with this and how we talk about this. I people on our social media that actually shoot it down, oh, I don't even know what's the big deal about this and all that. Right. Just recently. And I think we need to be quite, if, if there's, if, if one person on this planet earth would have died from this, we have to be sensitive to it as Christians. Right. And I'm just starting there. Like, I think we need to be very like just responsible of what we share, what memes we put out there, what conversations we have with, you know, and how, and, and I asked, I want us to see if we can wrestle with how are we neighbo. How are we good neighbors through this? What do you think, Rob?

Man, I have a lot of thoughts. I started off as a bit of a coronavirus hater, I will admit it, and I still am a bit. If you watch the numbers and if you Google, by the way, coronavirus by country, there's some really interesting webpages that give real time updates on the different countries and the, you know, the trends. And it is a problem. Clearly it's a problem. I mean everyone in the world seems to have recognized it's a problem and it's one we can solve. And so as Christians, the idea of loving your neighbor makes a lot of sense and even taking precautions that, you know, you look at our students and the percentages for young people dying from this disease are awfully low. Like 0.2% is. That's the univariate analysis. So just age only looking at age, it's 0.2. So 1 in 500, if you get the disease, you die, which is a really low percentage. Now then if you start adding in other variables like gender, like what do you call it? Pre existing conditions.

Yes.

Then that percentage goes down to maybe 100, a thousand, you know, 0.1. And then if you consider that only half of the, you know, the cases actually get diagnosed, it could actually be half of that. So I get that college students have a very low chance of being infected. Having said that, you know, the elderly are people and we care about them and we love them. And so even if you don't die, as Christians we have a responsibility to love our neighbor. And so if we can close down schools and if that saves your grandpa or someone else's grandma, that's a big deal. Part of being a Christian. So in some Ways I think, I think young people are kind of taking one for the team on this.

And I mean I have a three and a half year old, a two year old and an infant and infants are crazy exposed to this. Right. So that adds a layer of complexity. But even for the three year old and two year old, they might not be, they have mild symptoms, but they're carriers and they can actually take it to an older person. Right. Or somebody would under. And, and this is where it went crazy with the case in New York where a 32 year old went from just getting the coronavirus in 20 or 24 to 48 hours. He lost a lung and a half.

Yeah, right. Can happen.

And he was, he was a physician assistant, he was healthy. So there was not a underlying condition. I don't think we know too much about it to actually come and but the attitude of the heart of some people that are actually, they don't want to, they don't want to self quarantine if they think that this is actually like if they have symptoms.

Well, no, you got to be smart. I mean if you, if you got to be careful and respectful for others. Now I will say yes, some of the folks that are posting the, you know, the mocking out the whole thing, there is a part when you know, just as a believer in logic, you see people going nuts and buying like crazy amounts of toilet paper and you're kind of like, okay, let's at least be realistic, like you've maybe heard this stat, but 640,000 people around the earth this year will die from the flu. And right now we're at what, four and a half thousand, which is bad. Not saying it's okay, four and a half thousand, maybe we get to a hundred thousand. It's still one sixth of the flu. Now again, I'm not arguing against prudence. If we can stop something and we don't know how bad this can get, we should stop it. And yeah, I also understand that we're at the beginning stages of this and it's going to get worse. Having said that, yes, I'll stop talking. If you look at the numbers, like if you look at China right now, China has, I think it's 85,000, something like that has had cases, 64,000 are, are resolved now 3,000 of those died. But you know, this is not the end of the world and that's two months. So it's not like this is going to be at least I don't, it seems like it shouldn't be three years. This is A fairly quickly moving thing now.

And, and I think one of the best articles I've read these days. I'm not a China hater. No, I actually will talk and I think we need to call out the fact that this, this virus has infected more with racism and xenophobia in this than actually like people with this. And treating that is actually not cool at all. And. And it's making. Even in people that hold Christian beliefs in Christian values, that's coming out in a way that it's not. It's unhealthy. So I'm. I just want to repeat, just be careful what you share. You might, you might not hold those values deeply. You might think a meme is funny, but it might, it might be hurtful to share it to a group of people.

Right.

I'm not a. A China hater. I've actually been to China multiple times and love the land, but I'm not a China. I don't trust their numbers at all and I don't trust their reporting at all. So the best, the best article I've read is the only place that we truly can study coronavirus and really understand it is Italy. And in Italy has created. It has created really damaging.

They're in trouble, right? They're in trouble.

Thousands of people being affected. More than 15,000.

Yeah, 15. And a lot of deaths too. Like a high percentage of deaths, over a thousand.

Very high percentage of that. So we just need to be sensitive to this, right? I. Because we have limited time on this, we're going to land our discussion.

I.

What can you do? And what can I do during this time besides the fact that now you have before, if you were able to get away with not washing your hands. Now James, chapter 4, verse 8, part B says, wash your hands, oh, you sinners.

There it is.

Please just use James chapter four, verse eight and be responsible. I mean, I didn't think I was washing my hands with soap before the soap was trending.

Yeah.

So it was trend. I don't want to brag about that, but be responsible. Right. So that's one thing that you can actually do. Yeah. But I want to share a quick story that I thought like, it just melted my heart a little bit big time. There was a, a couple in a parking lot, an older couple in their car in the parking lot shouting at people and saying, hey, hey, come here, come here. And nobody. Like people were passing by and finally somebody went to them and said, and they're like, can you please buy something for the store? They were really afraid to walk into the store and buy something for themselves and I can't accuse them. I cannot, I will never be able accuse them of that. And this is not, this, this might actually not be unjustified fear, right. Because they might have had underlying conditions, something. I don't know. But that person went and bought for them and, and saw that. So immediately it hit me to say, maybe these days you might actually get out of your comfort zone and go and help your elder neighbor and be an actual neighbor professor for somebody and, and help them out. Go and offer. Don't wait for them to reach out to you. Go and offer. Can I, can I do the shopping for you? Can I buy this for you? Can I, can I bring of toilet paper? Oh, is that.

I don't know. So one of our phones.

Oh, that's one of our phones. Oh, that's going to go in the.

Sorry about that Internet and podcast. No, that's okay. But let me, let me say this. While you're dealing with that, I, and you guys have heard this one's gone around a lot. People talking about the same word in Chinese for crisis is opportunity. You've probably heard that. Yeah, the same, well, the same, the same word is, can be translated crisis or opportunity. And it really is true. In every crisis there are opportunities. And you look at this situation, I mean, it'll be really interesting to see how this affects our world. Like all of us have, or a bunch of us, at least in the educational world, are going to have some extra time. Not you.

Yes.

Not the administrators, but the students. You're going to have time, you're going to, and the faculty. We're going to have space and the opportunity to build relationships, even at a distance, like with social distancing and to, to help people that are in need. This is a great opportunity just to show love and to almost have a bit of a mini sabbatical while you're helping society by not spreading the disease. So I, I mean, there's, there's, there can be some good things about this.

You know, also, I was thinking, I, I've invested a lot of time in online education. I want to make my, I want to make my expertise available to anybody or even, even other schools in the area if they have questions about how to do this proper to serve their. This is what we're doing at Multnomah and I hope you're going to appreciate this and you're going to see this announced on Monday morning. I hope this serves as a little bit of inspiration for everybody. Out there, everybody has skills, everybody has ability to actually help somebody. You might not even know how much you're helping. Might make a difference. We're gonna open up Multnomah plus and offer all courses for free during the duration of this. People quarantining people cannot attend actually locations.

You can only watch so much Netflix.

I mean, that you can binge that much. Like, you can only like quite a bit. I understand. Quite. Yeah, but. But in. In the times where you're like, you know what, maybe it's some time to.

Get feedback, develop myself. I like to prove as a person.

With something more than just that. On Monday morning, we want to roll out. Multomaplus.com will offer all 18 courses for free.

Nice.

For a limited time. And we're working to put out a coupon code for everybody so you actually get a chance to continue your education without having to leave your home.

I was thinking even, like. And I don't know if this is allowed since you're in charge of this, but I was thinking even like, with teaching classes remotely, it'd be fun to teach some. Just like. And again, I'm just.

Okay.

Talking out loud.

Talking.

It'd be fun to just go Facebook live with teaching sometimes. Yes. Anybody you want to join our class? Why not? We're on the Internet. Do it. Yeah, you know, we'll talk about. But we'll probably. We'll use the official method because then.

You know, why won't have to charge them. But free courses from MU Plus. I. At least I hope that's going to help. And if you pay it forward, I mean, take what we're doing and see if you can help somebody right next to you. You know, I've been involved. I think a lot of people know I've been involved in south Sudan for 10 years. This year, grain for pain. The. The ministry that I'm involved with is. Is 10 years old. And South Sudan has been through crazy war and death and destruction and all that. And this is what I've figured for myself. And maybe this, this is cheesy, but I don't care that South Sudan for the past. I think from 1981, they've known 11 years of peace. 2005. And then from 2000, from 2007, from 2009, actually. When they separated as a separate country in 2011 until 2014, that was the only peace they had. And then in 2014, war, like civil war broke out again. And we deliver grain. And you know what can be louder than bullets and guns? One sack of grain. Yeah, like one cup of grain.

Kindness.

That can be louder, right. Than any other, you know, destruction that you might face these days. I want to challenge you with the simple act of kindness. Whatever that is. Whatever that is. If for some of you, it might be that you stop posting, just, you know, think about that. Like, I'm. Maybe I'm a little too rough, but some of you, you're like, you know what? I'm gonna take a break from, from creating memes.

From hating.

From hating. Right. For some of you, it might be that you stop doing something, which is fine, which is okay. Like, just, you know, kind of let that, like, sink in. For some of you might be coming out of your, coming out of your, your comfort zone and helping somebody that you would not only. And put a point of connection and caring for the person next to you.

Yeah. Again, one of the big ideas of Christianity, it love your neighbor, do good unto others. And this is a great opportunity for us to do that. And the other thing too. And again, now I'm coming a little bit of a counterpoint. I don't believe some of these hate boats. Yeah, yeah, it is okay to be reasonable, but we can hold these two tensions. Like we were talking about tension.

Some people.

Yeah, yeah, we can love our neighbors and we can be prudent and also be realistic about the danger. Like, I mean, the numbers, the death count keeps going up for quite a while there. You are more likely to die from a farm implement or falling out of bed or even getting hit by lightning. Those were all statistically quite a bit. So you can be reasonable, but still kind and still certainly prudent. All of us need to be prudent.

I don't think we disagree on that. No, I think what I want to, to bring home the point is I think the. We have reached a point with coronavirus where we have to be more careful what we say.

Okay.

Not because it's becoming like, you know, but is a pandemic. It's, it's. It has killed many people and that prudence. Right. Just, you know, I, what I liked about, what I really loved about your post is like, okay, let's still keep it in perspective because media is, has really not helped us. Right. And they have that raise awareness and, and you know, the alarm if, if this would have not gotten to where it is, it might have been good. It'd be like, hey, this might be coming. But now it's reached a point where I think it might actually might reach, where it might bypass the, the all or Miss of media fast is going just because it's actually moving fast. That's the only thing, it's moving fast. Presidents have it. Yeah, right, right. And President of Brazil, Trudeau's right. Wife, Canada.

Prime Minister of Canada's wife. Canada is a big country. There's a lot of space to stay away from country.

Right. Prominent people, I mean, just Tom Hanks. Tom Hanks, the President of Brazil apparently, you know, had Trump visiting. So I hope nothing happens there.

That'd be something.

Right. Something interesting. But, but it's, it's just going there. So we might, we have reached a point where we just have to be careful what we say because it might hurt people, it might scare people. Some people might actually have different way of coping with this.

Right.

Then you, you might be okay.

Yeah.

I will forever remember one time I was flying in an airplane and I was in an exit seat and I was, I love that. Exit seat. Yeah. And right next to me there was a person and we, they had to do the instruction. Do you agree with this? And I was like, oh, this is time for a good joke. And I'm like, yeah, but did anybody make it to like, to like tell the story that they've opened the exit door?

Right.

How many people? I was like, haha. Well, the person next to me didn't really appreciate they were traumatized and they're like, you know, and they didn't tell me that they're afraid of flying.

Yeah.

You know what ended up happening on that flight? They had a panic attack. Not because of my joke. Let me just say, when we were landing, there were some turbulences and I ended up having to take care of that person for 40 minutes and helping them with breathing and stuff. And I said never again will I make joke.

Right.

Even though it was really funny. Hahaha. And some people laughed, but gotta be not that person because I didn't know that, you know, so we just have to be careful with it.

Fair enough, fair enough.

Any other points?

Well, and also don't make, I mean like, don't hoard. Like, like. Yeah. Oh, see, to me that's. And I will admit that I am partly jaded on the media response based on what I see in Portland when every time we have snow because yes. You know, we have. There's one year. And this is going to go to online education, by the way.

Yes.

But every time we have like half an inch non, you know, non stop TV coverage of the snowpocalypse. And I kind of wonder if it's a little Bit the boy who cried wolf. And so I don't want, you know, in the story of the boy who cried wolf. I don't want to be the villagers that don't respond because they. Yes. You know, they believe maybe the media is overreacting, which I have at times felt. But this is a serious thing now. Here's trends like to online education. A couple years ago, we had, I think, nine snow days, and I felt open disdain for the city of Portland as a Canadian, because we're getting this much snow and nine days off. My previous 35 years.

We came from Chicago those days. Yeah. Right. Where we had 120 inches of snow. That's. I went here is like, oh, yeah.

It was minus 40. In Manitoba, they would send the kids out for recess.

Yep.

For like 30 minutes. Lock the doors. I'm kind of like, we're shutting down for half. Okay. So the school. And God love us, and all the schools, not just us, they. They said, okay, we're not gonna. We're shutting down. There's snow. You're gonna have to teach remotely. And this was my first time doing it. And I was like, oh, man, I don't want to do this. I was depressed. I was like, this is not gonna be any fun. And so we used I think big or something, and I thought. And actually, by the end of the week, it was kind of cool. Like, I will admit, I kind of enjoyed it. I sauntered down to the basement, turn on the computer.

Yep.

And we just. Our conversations were good. Like, we could talk back and forth over. So, like, remote education is not the end of the world.

Nope. No, it's not even.

As a dude who doesn't really understand it, it was still all right.

Yeah. So it's actually definitely not. It's not only. It's. It's a different world. Not. It's not even. And it might be such a different foreign world for some people that have never had to deal with it that you just immediately ascribe your thoughts and assumptions about what happens there. There have been some people that have earned most of their degrees online, and they're professionals, and they are the ones maybe leading your company.

Yeah.

Right. They're out in the workforce and they've done most of their education online, and they're not lesser in any way. I'll start with my. With my strongest argument for remote this year. Education. Right. Two arguments that I always start with. One is online learning, you know, remot teaching and all that is called distance learning. Right. And the. The concept Here comes about the concept of distance. And some people immediately assume just because you actually have students in the classroom that you're closer to them. Yeah, wrong.

Right.

I really think it's a wrong assumption. You might have somebody in the classroom that comes in there, checks in, checks out. Three seconds into the classroom and you've.

Lost on their phone.

They're on their phone looking at your face. I was in a. I was in the youth ministry one time because we're youth pastors.

Right.

And I took everybody's phones away because it was back then where you could. You could do that.

Yeah.

And this person was looking at me so intently, and I'm like, they've never paid so much attention. What's going on? Well, they brought a fake phone to the. They put it in my box and under the table. They were texting while looking at me. Right. So they're still connecting, but they were there. And I thinking, because they're there, like they're, you know, I'm close to them. No, that's wrong. In online learning, all students have access to me. So I've been teaching online for 10 years, and in online learning, all students, 20 of them, 25 of them in a class, have direct access to me without having to be interrupted by anybody else. They actually have uninterrupted access to me at any given time, day or night. They can write me, anyone. They can zoom with me, they can talk to me, and they can ask me questions one on one. And I've had many, many cases of students getting such closer. So I have a folder, and I said this, I think, in. In one of our podcasts, I have a folder. After 10 years of teaching online, I think at this point, more than thousands of students, maybe tens of thousands of students, right. From all over the world. World. And I kept a folder with. With feedback that they gave me after the class ended or things that I. I captured from them that were positive. Right. I don't have a folder for the negative necessarily, even though, you know, I read them all. But I. I kept the positive ones because I go in there sometimes when it's hard. It's really, really difficult to teach online and to be connected with so people. So many people. And Diane, my wife, doesn't see those people. She's not with me in the classroom. I carry like 30 or 40 or 50 people in a classroom with me, and I carry them in prayer. I care. I couldn't. I'm connected with them in a way that nobody would ability understand. And they have direct access to me. So that's the first thing. And I have more than 90 students that wrote. I had an online student that I've never met on in person. He was in my class for eight weeks. And then we've never like we've kept in touch but we've never met online. And I actually walked with him to get out of an addiction.

Wow.

And we prayed together and God delivered him from an addiction during an eight week online class. And he and God just worked so powerful in his life. Point of connection where he felt he could talk to me about some things and put some things on me. And we walked together just these eight weeks in a way that maybe he never felt with anybody. Anybody else.

Yeah, it's. It's incredible. Even in youth ministry like there, there's been times where I've. One time I got a friend request from a site and, and I said yes. And this is the early days of social media. And then there was just like huge long stories on this post on this page, all these stories and stories. And so I was reading them and it was became clear to me that I was one of my students. And then I got to the end and I looked at the number of friends and it was one me. And then they had created this whole Persona just as a way to privately communicate because they wanted to tell someone their story and they didn't feel they could do it face to face because some of us, and by the way, me included, communicate more openly online than we do in person. And so there is actually opportunity with that.

There is a massive opportunity, to be honest. Well, the second myth, because the, the first, this, this had a twofold right that there's more distance in distance education than in the classroom. And I think we need to think critically about that. There might be opportunities in the classroom that you have to connect faster but it not be deeper as, as much as we think there might be. And I pre. I am convinced that there are opportunities in the classroom where they do they have the exact same experience I've had. But just for me, sharing that I've had it in online might actually raise people's attention to some like, you know. But the second one is I think we serve a book and we, we read a book and we are. Are followers of a book called Scripture that has a lot of letters and a lot of remote learning happens through that. And I'm pretty sure Paul's connection to Timothy was so strong and he wrote a few letters and, and he's, he did that.

He.

He did that Mentoring and that, that coaching remotely in a way that it was fascinating that we actually tend to forget that.

And by the way, if they would have done that in person, none of us would have had the bi, like big chunks of the Bible. So it's actually pretty awesome that it's really fascinating on record with that stuff.

That's what's going on over there, you know. And so Anne is saying a few cool things here. I don't know if you, you need to check your Facebook. Check. And thank you so much for. She was one of the best online students we've had through the years. And so, so you see, that's another case right here. If you're, if you're on podcast and you're listening to this audio, I just had a comment from one of my, one of my favorite online students. If, if most of them would sign into our podcast right now, I would say the same thing about them. But Anne was really, truly special in the class and I really love. And she is an established professional and she did her studies with online. Right? Yeah, the, the other, the other one of the major values that people actually don't understand. And this is what makes a very good professor online. And I'm going to talk about what makes a good student online. And I think this is where we're going to kind of lend our, the conversation. So this is what makes, this is what makes a, what I think makes a really, really good online or remote learning coach or. Prof.

Right.

The values completely shift and change from what's the most important in the classroom versus online. Yeah, in the classroom.

Yeah.

Actually, people will go for knowing who you are. Right. I mean, this person knows this and all this, and they're going for that. They're drawn to the fact that one of the values is they know what they're talking about. And I'm going to listen to their expertise right. In their classroom. And so that's one of the most, the most important drives. And I'm making an assumption there. But in online, one of the most important value is responsiveness. How fast and how well we respond. So if I right now Rob, there will be a wall between us. Right?

Right.

And you would call my name and you say, hey, Alin.

Yeah.

And I would not respond. Yeah, right. You're like, you're gonna call again. Hey, man. Right? Nothing. Hey, you there. You lose confidence faster that I am there because you don't see see me.

Right.

I'm not there to see me. That's not a problem in the classroom. You see Me, I might be checked out, but you see me, right? You care about what I say and all that in online, the number one value is are they there? Are they present, are they responsive? So the way you respond to so everything to their emails, to assignments, to feedback. Right. And what you say, are you descriptive? Are you giving them clear guidelines of what they have to do? Because you don't have this world of. But you can't actually complement the body language and all that with clear expectations and descriptions of what you have to say. Number one value compared to none other values in online is responsiveness. So if I have one, just one piece of advice for everybody that actually teaches remotely or online these days and switching to that.

Yeah.

Is be responsive and respond as early as you can and as fast as you can with as many details as you can so they don't have to wonder. Okay, responded. But I still don't know what was going on.

Yeah.

And for students. So I'm just sharing these two. There are many things. Many things. But for students, the number one thing is realize that you are responsible to actually to the more you put in online, the more you put in it, the more you get out of it. If you get to the online class with the mentality that I'm just going to check the box, I'm going to do the minimum, bare minimum requirements hard in this class to actually like pass it into the. Just as a, just as a checkbox, you're not going to get much out of it. But then you're going to blame online because it didn't motivate you.

Right.

Like, like in the classroom when you go, you're going to blame the professor because he didn't engage you in the conversation.

Right.

And that's one of the myths that I've seen that online students. So I've taught classes with students that have done the bare minimum and they were very poor classes academically. I mean, I can tell you I had to give them the grade because they've done the bare minimum and they did the work. And I have classes where people alive. First of all, they introduced themselves and they were transparent who they are. So they. You understood who you're talking to. Right. And second of all, they really got into it. The discussion boards were lively. They were not that two plus two equals four.

Oh, I really like that.

It was so insightful. Thank you so much for the insight that you've had in this. I really appreciated this comment.

I love how he said two plus two equals four.

That's it. I love how you got my comment. I really, I got my comment in. That's what you put in.

In.

That's exactly what you're going to get out of it.

Right.

So come to this space knowing that and the moment you share more, you are compelling your faculty to give you more and they're going to respond more, they're going to be active more. So again, I know it's, it's a little bit on you, but that's one of the main reasons I love online learners, because they are lifelong learners.

Yeah.

You're developing the skill of having to really be motivated and having to take action for yourself and really be invested in this. But the more you put in it, the more you're going to get out.

Of it, you know, and there's, and this may be a personality thing too, but a while back my wife and I were doing a lot of traveling and so we, we started watching. Occasionally we would watch our church online. And, and so I originally thought, oh, that's not going to be as good, you know, but then I actually started really, really liking it because what would happen is we'd run the service and while it was going on, my wife and I could talk about stuff. Like we could say, hey, what do you think about that? Or how does that apply to us? And we had kind of these co curricular conversations. It's actually from my personality. Like I, I was less bored than when I'm having to sit in a, in a room. I'm just like, you're killing me. Somehow I, I listen better. So I, you know, there are some folks that will, I think, thrive in this environment.

I really think so. And, and a shout out to students. Because I, I mean, I love, you know, I, I love that we have the opportunity to even test this and.

See this go student.

I know it's going to be hard for some of you to transition.

Yeah.

Right. How do you think it's going to be for a faculty that has taught in the classroom for so many years.

And we're old and we don'.

Not you, Rob, not you.

It's hard for me to create a meme.

Yeah.

Someone made a meme about how badly I created memes a couple years ago and I'm one of the more tech savvy faculty as a youth min guy.

Right. That was hurtful. Whoever you were. That was hurtful.

Funny. It was okay. It was funny. I liked it.

But, but think about it though, right? That empathy of coming to that space and allowing, you know, it's, it's Interesting how students ask for leniency when it comes to themselves.

Right.

But not very quick to give leniency when it comes to.

Right.

The memes are already out there, like, hey, a faculty.

What was it?

Shoot.

Yeah. So you're telling me that my. My professor who can't turn off autoplay on YouTube, is going to be teaching online. We'll see how this goes. Yeah, we're gonna. We'll do it.

Word of truth there. I'm not fighting back.

We'll learn.

But think of this. There is a website now. I actually think they're gonna have a lot of hits. It's called no significant difference.org org that has done. That has been done on, I think, more than 30,000 students.

Yeah.

On teaching on campus and online.

Yeah.

And what they've discovered is although there are differences when it comes to various skills and all that, but when it comes to learning outcomes.

Yeah.

They have been. And they've measured same learning outcomes in the same method. They've done that. There's been no significant difference in actually learning outcomes.

Yeah.

And it's the only measurement we do have. Right. So that's a little bit of a humble pie to eat on both sides in the sense that if you're coming with all these assumptions, it's okay. But just. I'm really cautioning everybody to take a step back. Let's. Let's test this out. Let's see what happens. I told a student recently, and I said, do me this favor. I know this is hard. You're struggling with this. Come to me in a week, two, three weeks, and tell me if you feel that what you experience right now is subpar when it comes to your education. You have access to. You're doing virtually, but you have access to the same person. You're in the class with the same people in a digital age that you're. Most of your connections are online. Can you really not connect with these people, even though you have to do it at the distance now?

I mean, you could theoretically turn off your camera and be sitting in the bathtub. Not as a teacher, maybe. Yeah. Drinking your coffee, enjoying your class.

Yes. I had to do.

I mean, it could be pretty comfortable.

Yeah. And we're not necessarily pushing for that.

But holding hands with the person you love. Love. Maybe not while you're teaching.

Not without using sanitizers, though.

Absolutely. Social distance.

Social distance. So we're coming close to our time. If you have questions, I know we've done. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Oh, no, I don't mean to interrupt. Yeah. I just want to say one thing too, about the. Like, you know, remember, guys, we've talked about loving your neighbor, but also remember that we, if you're a believer, if you believe God exists, then we, we certainly, certainly, if you're a Christian, we serve a God who's in charge, who's in charge of the world. And honestly, I don't think we have to be that scared. Like, we want to be prudent, we want to be smart. We don't know how often he intercedes in the world in different events. So we want to be prudent. But if God wants, if he wants us to live, we're going to live. And if he wants us to die, then do you want something other than what God wants? I mean, even for both of us, for your life and for my life, we're doing this big Europe thing and obviously travel bans and we stand to lose a ton. But if God wants us to lose it, then why would we want it, to keep it? Like, why. Why would you want something other than God's will? So we don't have to be. We can be motivated by kindness. We can be motivated by prudence. We can look at this as an opportunity to have a change of pace and to experience some different things for a couple months. We don't have to run around scared.

No, we don't have to run around scared. I think it's an interesting thing, regardless of where these things are going, to not forget of how in control God still is and where, where he sits on this.

Yeah.

On this issue, we're all going to.

Die at some point, 100% of us.

You really want to end our podcast with that?

Like, can we wash your hands enough to live forever?

Yes. Ask the Chin emperor that builds the 10,000 army to go with them off in the after world. That didn't work.

We can walk with confidence.

Yes. And we should walk with confidence. I think that's a good. It's a better thing to end with that. We should.

You like that one better?

Okay, I think I like that better, but it's also really realistic. Guys, thank you so much for joining us. This is just two guys talking. The views expressed here today, especially particular today, the views expressed on. On MU talks are not in any way. Representative Multoma University and thank you for joining us. Stay tuned.

Yep. We'll be back. Hopefully you had some good. Talk to some people, talk to us, have an interesting conversation with somebody and.

Let'S continue the conversation on wherever you hear us. Or on social media. We don't have answers. And be kind.

Right. Love you.

Have a good one.