Reflections On Being A Student During Covid - 19

Foreign. Hey, everyone. Welcome to a new episode of MU Talks. This is going to be a great one. This is an exciting one. I have some really cool people joining us. So here we are. Rev. Dr. Robert J. Hildebrand and myself, ladies and gentlemen. Rob, you're already making signs for our audio podcast.

Yeah, I'm the worst podcast guy ever. I always do everything like image driven, and no one can see it on the podcast. Those of you listening at home, I'm very funny with visuals.

Yes, very funny with visuals. But today we have some very special guests joining us on MU Talks. And the reason I'm excited about this is because this podcast, mutalks, is very much about higher education, about the world of academia. And, you know, what's in the heartbeat of academia and higher education is students. And so today, Rob and myself, we are really honored to host a few students with us today, and I'm gonna let you introduce yourself a little bit. So, Rob, actually, can you introduce our guest? Tell us, you know, who you are, what are you doing at Multnomah University, what majors, stuff like that, and where you are.

Yeah. Let's start with the most beautiful. It's my daughter, Amy Hildebrand. She above me on a different computer. What's your name? Sorry? What's your name?

My name is Amy.

And how many years have you been at Multnomah?

This will conclude my third year at Multnomah.

And are you graduating?

I am indeed. Next week.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's great. One thing you like to do, Amy?

One thing I like to do. I like music. I like playing music.

Yeah, you're a worship leader for a long time. Okay, let's go to Isaiah. I mean, I was gonna say, what's your name, sir? With the. With the impressive beard? Mustache.

Yeah. I'm Isaiah Harris, also known as Zay.

Zay. And how long have you been at Multoma?

Since the fall of 2016. And I'm starting my seminary degree as of last December. This spring.

Yeah. You just graduated? Just graduated. And you were fortunate enough to get pictures and all of that stuff?

Yeah, it was a nice, small little ceremony. It was nice.

But you're also. Where are you living right now?

I'm living in Lower Memorial. At Multnomah? Yeah.

So you're on the campus even though the campus is locked down with a capital L. Oh, yeah.

It's pretty scary, I'm not gonna lie.

So we're gonna have two perspectives already. We're gonna have a perspective of a student that lives on campus right now during this absolute craziness. And then we have Amy living in a wonderful tower with her parents, temporarily being protected by a fierce dad. And then Moses.

Yeah, Moses, our student body president. How many years you been at Multnomah, Moses?

This is the end of my third year.

End of your third year. And you, sir, are also graduating, Is that correct?

Yeah.

All right, tell us. Tell us one thing you like to do, Moses.

I was also gonna say music, but then I would have literally been copying all of Andy's answer. So I'll say I like to run.

Yeah, that's right. Running is great. You know, we really should have asked Isaiah. What's one thing you like to do, Isaiah?

You already know? Ultimate Frisbee. Thank you.

That's true. He's a beast. A beast of the ultimate Frisbee. Diving for balls. I mean, Frisbees. Yeah. No, we got a good bunch today. Eileen got a good bunch.

That's exciting. I'm actually super excited. And I actually. I'm a little bit removed from working with students on a day to basis because my role at Multnomah is working with faculty and with the deans and the academic side and president's council and all that jazz. And so for me, this is a discovery time. And I think we live in a more transparent world. I'm discovering more about what's going on with your life and how you're experiencing this and how are you experiencing this transition to remote education. And all these live on social media and during the podcast. So thank you for accommodating that. Before we get into all that, and I really want to hear your stories. What did you study? Why are you studying at MLO Nova? I'm curious, Isaiah.

Yeah, I got my bachelor's degree in youth ministry, and I'm kind of undecided about my master's degree, but why I got my bachelor's in youth ministry is just because I love working with youth. I love being a role model leader of the church and just helping the next generation any way I can.

That's exciting. I think people know that Rob, Hildemar, and myself, we are a little passionate about youth ministry. Dedicated a big portion of our lives to it. So you're in good company, Amy.

I am a youth ministry major as well. A recent transfer, actually. I was doing the TESOL degree. I was going to be a teacher, but I started working in a church about two years ago, and I just really like it. And I was like, you know what? I think I'd rather do this. So I switched on over.

Oh, wow. But what a great background to have to move to that with tesol, right? I love that TESOL world, I really do.

And Moses, I am a history major and for me that's kind of a stepping stone. Hopefully, I would like to go on to grad school and hopefully work in government.

So. Okay, yes, please. If you work in government, learn about our history. I think there are a lot of people working in government that actually don't know our history. Anyways, hey, maybe this is a good time to say that the views and opinion expressed on MU talks do not represent Multnomah University. Anyways, here we go. We said it. We don't have to say it at the end, but so let's go into it. Whoever wants to start the conversation and saying the topic is, what does it mean to be a student during COVID Tell me your story. How did you experience it? Let it be raw. And then maybe we can go into having a, you know, back and forth on where do you think this is going?

Yeah, I'll start off. I would say being a student in the COVID 19 situation is learning how to be adaptable and to change and to accept things that are completely out of your control. I was a track and field athlete and also a commuter assistant, ultimate Frisbee leader. Worked out in the gym six, seven times a week. You know, had this routine and it was just all taken away from me. You know what I'm saying? And it's just. It's weird to just be transitioned, right? Just to be taken out of one spot and put into a different box and say, okay, this is how you have to live now and learning every single day. Whether that's a zoom call, technical difficulties, trying to print off an online test because things aren't virtual. It's just. It's crazy. And yeah, I'll be the first to say it is hard to adapt to something that you've never been part of or used to.

Hey, Isaiah, what's been the hardest part? And then secondly, has there been any part that has been surprisingly enjoyable or refreshing? Let's start with the hardest. What's been the hardest thing?

Yeah, the most difficult part, I would say would be not having, like, a physical or athletic outlet. It seems like all gyms are closed. Even, like, just basketball or even wanting to play Frisbee, or even meeting up with people just like that community aspect, it's just all taken away and virtual. And so that would be the hardest part. Something that has been surprisingly awesome, though, is being Pulled out of a thousand mile per hour routine and being able to just sit and be still and rest, that has been really awesome. At least for me, personally.

Yeah, it's felt like a forced sabbatical. Almost like, you know, you read the Old Testament and the guys take like a week off year or a month or a year, and it's. It's, you know, it's like, what do you do? You've been running hard and suddenly you're like, I feel lazy, but I'm also kind of enjoying it in some ways.

That's great. I very much appreciate you sharing that with us. Having a routine and then just being thrown off and then the ability to stop and reflect. And I hope people do. I know I do think they've exhausted everything that can be watched on Netflix and on everything else that you can afford for free. But I really hope that people do stop and do reflect and do reconsider some things in their life. Maybe this is a great opportunity. Somebody else.

I guess I'll go. I think that the whole experience for me, especially the last week of actually being in class, was very emotionally anticlimactic. I mean, I think just everything, you know, I was ramping up to be able to graduate. We were planning some really big stuff for SGA for the end of the year, so that was ramping up. I'm involved in. Or I was involved in choir. So we were planning, like, a really big show for the end of the year. So all this really big stuff was coming up. And then, you know, on just a week's time, all of that just, like, got canceled. And I don't. I don't know. I mean. Yeah, just to be open. I mean, I definitely, like, I cried at the end of that week because I was like, wow. I was not expecting all of this to suddenly, like, collapse so quickly. I don't know. It was just. It was a very weird experience. And now, as I'm in quarantine, realizing that I'm not getting that last month with the people that I enjoy spending time with and with my professors getting quality mentorship time, I think that. That both of those things are just also just kind of. Kind of just deflated me emotionally.

Okay. Amy.

Yeah, it's been an interesting time. It's. So I'm graduating a year early, and I've been kind of sad about that all year. And I know that's supposed to be a good thing to graduate early. It's like, yeah, you get out there faster, but I'm kind of like. I don't really want to get out there faster. So this whole year has been kind of, like, trying to come to terms with being done with school, which is, like, something that I've been doing since I was, like, five and I'm 20, so it's like, most of my life. And then the beginning of spring semester started, and I was, like, just kind of starting to, like, get there, and I'm like, yeah, we can graduate. We can. This can. This is gonna be a good thing. You know, this isn't bad. And then we get, like, a month past that, and then it's just completely canceled. So it kind of was like. I wasn't even, like, happy about it being done in May, much less in March. So, yeah, that's definitely been disappointing. And then graduation. I was really counting on that to be, like, the thing that, like, sealed the deal for me. Like, no, I'm graduated, but we don't have that either. So I kind of just don't feel like I'm graduating, even though I'm graduating next week. So. Yeah, it's been. It's been. It's been sad. But, I mean, there have been good things. Like, I started reading again, which is nice. Haven't been reading in a while. I find myself, like, doing a bunch of things that I used to do in high school when I had all this time. Like, I'm writing. I'm like, you know, all these different random things. So there's been goods. But, yeah, definitely still disappointing.

That's exciting. I'm happy to know that Covid challenged you to start reading again, writing again, and reading again, because, you know, higher education doesn't challenge us to do that. That's exciting to know that for fun. Oh, sorry.

For fun.

I've been reading anything in the last six months, a year and a half. Like, I don't. The youth ministry program at Multnomah University enough. But as you. How has it been virtually with community, the one thing that we can learn from students and from your generation. I say your generation because I think. I think we're not the same generation. I'm just gonna assume that we're not the same generation. Yeah, look at it, look at it. Look at us. But how has it been? Was there any change in the way you. You've. You've hung out with friends? I'm not just talking about the physical, but how did you. How did you connect with people? Were you able to connect? Was there anything happening? I know a few people that live close to me in the neighborhood here. They. They're college students and they actually go with their cars in a parking lot and they just literally hang out in their cars. And I'm like, why don't you just FaceTime? Am I, like, am I missing something? What? But there's just that need to, like, drive in the same parking lot and be in the same parking lot and just talk through the doors. Safari. Talk to me a little bit about changes in that area.

I think for me, I'm out at the beach. I was living on campus at Will Nomas, living in an apartment, but I moved off, obviously. And so now I'm out in Newport. And all of my friends are either, like, back home in Colorado or still in Portland or, like, all over the place. And so it definitely has been a shift in community. Not only am I not living with, like, two of my best friends, but I also can't see anybody. And I FaceTime them, like, regularly anyways. But one of my friends who's still in Portland, like, when we were back a couple weeks ago, we just literally went and, like, met in a parking lot and parked like this and then, like, opened our trunks and just sat in our trunks and like, talked, like, from, like, feet and feet and feet away just because it's like you need something to do and you need. You just need that. And I. Yeah, I definitely miss that.

I've been wondering, like, I know I was actually a youth ministry symposium saying, how is all this stuff going to change the world and how's it going to change the world of young people and the way we minister to young people? And we were kind of wrestling with one of the issues because young people are no strangers to technology. You know, like, a lot of the day they're talking on phones and on the Internet and a lot of guys are gay gaming, and they're talking while they're gaming. And so then suddenly we're thrown into this where that's all you can do. And so it's gone from, I don't know, five hours a day before to, like, eight hours or nine hours now. I don't know. I'm guessing with my numbers. I'm fascinated to see after this if people are more inclined to do that or less inclined to do that. Like, if they're kind of like, yeah, this was great, we'll keep doing it this way. Or if they'll be so kind of repulsed by it that they're like, I just need someone physically. What do you guys think? Which way will it go? Are you going to be more tech or less tech? After this.

I think personally it would be less tech. However, I definitely had a question about, like, the virtual church now, how services are being held, like remotely and recorded and everyone's showing up in their PJs and their snacks and all that good stuff. Like, people are getting used to that and like, are they going to want to go back to the actual building.

And be with people?

I don't know.

It's pretty. I don't know if it's good or not, but, you know, you find yourself listening to the worship pastor from one church and then you go listen to a sermon from another. And then the thing, the biggest thing I like about the virtual church, and I don't know that I'm for it per se, but the biggest thing that I like is the ability to talk over a sermon while it's going on or immediately after. Like, it's not rude to have a little bit of a side conversation. That's kind of cool. It'd be fun to see, quote, unquote, regular churches incorporate that, you know, some way of interacting so you're not just sitting there listening, you know, but that.

That still, that's happening in churches, not just. Not in the Baptist churches, right, Rob? But, but what's, what's really cool about your question, Isaiah? Because I agree, I agree with you, Rob and I. There's a mixed feeling about, you know, virtual church and all that. Even though now it's gonna be very difficult for pastors. I saw a meme and I meme is my love language. And so I saw a meme. There's really cool, like, pastors, you know, last year, they're like, the Facebook is in social media, is from the devil. And these days they're like, follow me on Facebook because, hey, my sermon is there. But I strongly believe that this, for people that were CEOs, Christmas and Easter, only Christians, now you're thinking, man, I really, I really think they're gonna miss being there and they have a renewed understanding of the value of being in person. I think they're gonna have a renewed understanding. And what was really sad for me to. Your question, Isaiah? What was really sad for me is that we're actually in a battle now, in a battle, in a legal battle in America to prove that church is essential. And I'm thinking, but why didn't you think it was essential when you were not going? Why are we so excited about being in a battle to prove that church is essential now that we can go? But when you had a chance in the Sunday to Go. You're like, ah, it's okay, it's a game night, right? But now we are in a position where we miss it. So. Fascinating. Somebody else. And I think Moses didn't get a chance to answer that question about virtual friends.

Oh yeah. I was just gonna say I think that a lot of my friends are really introverted, so most of them don't want to come out and meet me anyway. But as far as the church conversation goes, and as far as the friends go too, I would say I think that people are going to discover, yeah, it's easier to sit at home and have your snacks and be in your pajamas, but also you're not, it's not going to be the same as being face to face with these people and having conversations with them. And yeah, it might be easier for some, and maybe some people who are not as interested in genuine relationship will stay home and will keep going to church like that. But I think that for people who want to continue to build those meaningful relationships, they're going to see that it's worth the effort to go and, you know, communicate with people, whether it's their friends or their church body in person.

You know, you always hear people talking. And you got me thinking, Moses, like, you know, our virtual relationships, real relationships, like is it, is it a real conversation if you're texting or if you're talking? And in some ways, like, I wonder if it's kind of a personality thing for some folks because I know some people just really take a lot of, I don't know, emotional good feels from being together. Some of us are a little more awkward face to face. You know, I like, I find myself when somebody has. Wants to talk about something really deep, if they write it down to me and give me a chance to think about it and respond. I have some pretty honest conversations with people over the Internet. So I, you know, it's. I guess it's not either or maybe it's a both and you know, like they're both significant. But I'm 100% with you with the church. Like, you know, you miss just worshiping, for example. I mean you can sing with the pre recorded band, but it just kind of feels weird. You don't get the same. I don't know.

Yep, I agree with you. I actually, we had chapel today and I was, I was, I was catching myself thinking, I think it's awkward if I start singing by myself here. Like, I really, like, I don't know, I'm just gonna let, let this person do a brilliant job that they did, but it'll be, like, really weird. I'm thinking of people being in cafes or being everywhere, trying to. They're not in cafes right now, but being alone in the home and be like, I'm not gonna start singing by myself here. I have a question for you. What about remote learning? How has that experience been for you? And I know I don't want to confuse people. And at Multimedia University, we're really very aggressive about not calling it online learning. To not really destroy the legacy of years and years of work that people have actually put in the science of online learning. To actually say that right now everybody's doing online learning because it's not really online learning, even though it's happening online, but online learning is different. But you've moved. I think we moved so fast to remote learning that some people were still trying to figure out what's happening with COVID and we're already remote. At Molnova, we moved fast to remote. We wanted to stay two steps ahead of this, making sure that no student gets sick or nobody from the institution gets sick. How has that been for you? How is learning remotely?

I like that.

Bad, huh?

Sorry, we're gonna say something.

Go ahead. No, no, go ahead.

I like remote learning. I. I think that for. For most of my life, I've kind of felt like, you know, like, we're moving through things that like. Like, you know, a certain pace, and I want to move through it faster. And when I'm in remote learning, I can just do it by myself. I can teach myself. I do miss the, like, communication face to face with my professors and my friends, obviously. But I think that it really gives you an opportunity to push yourself creatively.

Okay.

I'm always going to miss those in class side conversations with your friend while the teacher's talking.

Okay, okay, I see. I see where this is going.

No, I just. Man, the remote learning. I hate it. I'm sorry. I just, like, I'm an extrovert. I need people. I need the professor. I need that in class discussion. One of my classes is fully discussion based. And so when we went to remote learning, I was like, there's no people around the table. I'm just sitting at this little desk looking at a screen, going, like, okay, let's talk. But it's not the same. I'm still grateful, in a sense that I still get to meet with those people in some way, but it's just. It's not the same. And it just, like, affected my way of learning, which has always Been in person. I've taken, like, maybe one or two online classes in my entire life, and this just. This is just flipped my whole script.

And that's exactly. That's exactly why I wanted this discussion to be raw. Like, I really wanted to be able to say that, because I think the reason I think it's important I would never want to put makeup on this is that I'm pretty sure, Isaiah, that a lot of people feel like you. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people out there thinking, like, hey, this is not my cup of tea. Like, I really want to experience the classroom. Even though I know you said, what was really cool is that it's teaching us adaptability and the fact that the real world out there, outside of the world of academia, the shelter world of academia, is going to be messy, and it's going to throw you in stuff that you're like, that's not my routine. But forget that. The world has changed already, so it's giving you a taste of that. Even though I'm happy for the world of academia, that protects you from it sometimes to really experience learning in the way you really want to learn. But I very much appreciate the rawness of what you just said. Thank you for sharing that, Amy.

Yeah, I'm going to be honest, I don't really like it either. I've taken some online classes over the years, and I have never really been a fan, I think. I mean, I do appreciate, like, how Multnomah has handled this situation, especially, like, right at the beginning. I think there are some wise choices, but for, like, the students, when it was all happening, it kind of just was like, we didn't even. I mean, nobody knew what was happening, but it just kind of was like, we all were like, our school is canceled. Like, our classes are online. What is happening? And so I think just for the.

For the audio podcast, I want to let people know that you punch yourself in the face.

Yes.

Okay. Sorry. I punched my people that are listening to us.

Audio is advised the voice.

Yeah, so at first, it just kind of was like, nobody knew what they were doing. So we were just, I mean, trying to figure out what was happening in the world, and we weren't really focused on, like, what are each of our professors gonna do differently? Because, like, at least in my case, a lot of my classes were, like, trips or practicum, which were super flexible, and a couple of my classes were already gonna be done by this time anyway, so that was really lucky. But the, like, three or four classes I had left. All of my professors did completely different things. So, like, one of them is doing normal Zoom classes. One of them just like records themselves talking for a little bit. And then it's like, keep doing the quizzes. And then another teacher is like, we're not gonna meet until the end of the semester and then you're gonna present your paper. And it's like so many different ways. And I have definitely found, like, I will say the best for me, at least personally for my classes. Like, the best have been the classes that still need. Because that one class that I still have, like two Zooms a week, those are the. That's the only like contact I have with anybody outside of, like my friends that I talk to and my parents. So I have definitely enjoyed meeting through Zoom instead of just like doing the work on my own. Like, I don't really want to just sit at home and take quizzes. Like, I want to be learning, which we still can in those classes. But it's like the self discipline that, like, even though I want to learn, like, I can't just bring myself to sit down and like watch, you know, like a 40 minute instruction on, I don't know. So that's probably my own fault, but yeah, I'm not a huge fan.

This is audio gold for me. This is really audio gold. Okay, go ahead, Rob.

I think the diversity of opinion is representative of the faculty too. Like, I think, I think part of its personality. Like, I know my wife, she took some, you know, back in the day, distance education and she loved it. You know, she could move at her own speed. She didn't have to, you know, worry about what people were, you know, dressing up for the class or worrying about what people were thinking or, you know, just. She just do her own thing and focus on the learning. So she loved it. And then there's others that, you know, they miss the people. Same thing for faculty. Some, you know, the way you wrap, the way you formulate a class. Some are more, here's my stuff, I'm going to give it to you. And some are more, let's build this thing together. And I think the ones that are building it, you know, trying to build it together, it takes a little more work to figure that new system out. And the trick too. And I agree with Amy and others who have said, I think Multnomah did a really good job being ahead of this thing. In fact, schools in general were ahead of the curve. Like you look, and there's the smart schools like the Princetons and the Harvard's and the Multnomahs, you know, us high end schools, we were among the first ones to move on stuff. And so, you know, congratulations to us. Now that the difficult part is that means we're making changes quickly. And so, you know, you got older faculty who know a tremendous amount about the world, but not all of them know a tremendous amount about technology. You know, they're trying to learn a new language. So it's been a challenge for everybody, I think.

And you know, I've dedicated a big portion of my adult life to online education and to studying online education and to teaching online. And so I can tell you for a fact that people that have actually really experienced a well, well created, well prepared online class, they really believed it was a great learning experience. And people that have experienced faculty that maybe they didn't know what they were doing in there, it was not a new environment for them or they were burned out, which happens a lot in online education. The role of the instructor in online education and the way that the course is designed is fundamental for how is that course going to carry you and keep you connected and motivated for eight weeks or 16 weeks, but if it's done right, it works really well. And that's what we distinguished in Malama University between remote education, which we wanted you to keep the zoom. We wanted you to actually be keep the same structure, just meet virtually, that's all. You have to change virtually. Instead of going to class, you're going to zoom, but other than that, you're keeping the same philosophy. But I hear it, I understand. And exactly like Amy was saying, people are doing different things here. I am having to adapt and they're having to adapt. We're all adapting and making sure that things are positive. I wanted to ask you a quick question. I'm curious, what do you think about this? I think all of you are close to graduation and going to graduation, right? And you're looking at the world very differently. I mean, other people that are in their first or second year, they're looking at the next two years in higher education. But as you look at the world changing around you, can you and are you able to share with us one excite, one thing that excites you and one thing that concerns you. As you're looking at the world, as you're looking at the summer, as you're looking at this fall, as you're looking at the world is changing around you.

You.

We'Ll share too one concern.

I mean, that's a great question and I'll give You guys, time to think about it. Man. The things that excite me, there's a lot that excites me. I think people are asking deep questions that they maybe, you know, sometimes when everything's normal, you don't have to think too deeply about your life. You just kind of go on autopilot and then you're throwing a curve. And some people just adapt and then they go back after. But it really gives people a chance to ask hard questions about what is my life and what's important. And even just pulling the veil back a little bit on the illusion of control that we think we have, society breaks down pretty quick. Most of us, this hasn't actually impacted. It's happening to somebody in some part of the world. We don't even know somebody that's got the disease, and. And yet we ran out of toilet paper pretty quick. You know, we think we're so powerful, but really, maybe that's an illusion. To me, this is also, I think, shine a light on maybe some of the classism that exists in our society. You know, you have this working class of folks that's still working and putting themselves in dangers. You got a bunch of people sitting around benefiting off them. And I hope that we as a society will ask deep questions about is this the way the world should be? You know, how can we find a greater sense of equity? I mean, I would love to see this go to universal healthcare. Not to get too controversial. Things that scare me. The world I could see, you know, you see a lot of tribalism, you see a lot of selfishness. Me first, kind of. We're not going to give our masks to another country. You know, you see Europe and they're struggling with what to do with, you know, do we share the cost? Do we look out for our own? They all close their borders. It's wonderful that the wars have kind of, you know, gone on pause and the climate change has gone on pause, but our selfishness has not gone on pause. And so that will be interesting to see how that, how that changes.

Somebody else.

This will probably sound cheesy, but I mean, it's kind of what you guys touched on earlier briefly. I do think that there's something to be said. I think Rob said something about, like, going on a personal sabbatical. But also when you said that, I thought about, like, how every 50 years, you know, the Israelites were supposed to give their land rest and, like, not farm off of it and all that stuff. And I just. I really think that it will be really good for the Earth. I think that, like, obviously, I mean, people are already seeing massive changes and just the way that the environment is being able to recover. And I think that that's something that we as Americans especially take for granted because we live in a beautiful country, but we, you know, trash it. So hopefully that'll be a good thing that comes out of this.

I saw this thing on Facebook, just to jump in, Somebody was saying, if the Earth could choose one species to eliminate, it would be humans. And I was like, oh, I hope that's not true. But it might be. You know, the way we've been operating.

Mosquitoes.

And grapefruit. Oh, we're not talking about fruit. Sorry. Go ahead, Go ahead. Isaiah. Amy.

Something that has just been really exciting to see and kind of brings me hope is anytime something separates us or distorts our day of life, it seems like people come together in some way. Like, we try to come together to make a world, like a brighter day. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was just seeing when the school system was getting shut down for lower education, like elementary, middle school and high school, and asking the question about, like, how are students on free and reduced lunch gonna have food?

Right?

Like, parents, families, like, rely on that. And just seeing somebody have an idea of packing school buses with food and having them go to the stops where they'd normally pick up kids and drop off food. Like, just seeing, like, even a small example, a small initiative, seeing the world come together on something, a pandemic that is no one's fault, right? Who can we blame? And it's just really beautiful. It still gives me hope for this, for this world.

I think for me, I mean, I see more negatives than positives, frankly.

Go ahead.

Which I. Yeah, I mean, I think there's good things that can come from this. And I think, like, you see the pictures in the videos from, like, Venice, Italy, like, the dolphins in the canals and, like, the water's clearing up and all that kind of stuff. And that, I think is great. But I think what's also great, maybe this is a cop out. But when it's over, I think everybody's gonna appreciate everything so much more. Like, I miss going to church so much. Like, so much. So it's like stuff like that where people would often be like, well, I don't really want to go to church. Like, now it's like, you have the privilege of going to church. So I think that will be good. A negative. I mean, so many. It is. I mean, I think the thing that Impacts me the most is well, obviously people's health. But it's impossible to plan like right in that right now. So I have family members trying to move to France, which they can't get in. I'm trying to go work at a camp in Canada this summer. Should be leaving in three weeks. Am I, am I going. I mean I have to like I have to go two weeks early if I'm going to self isolate. It's a different country, like it's a whole thing. And so you have all these different plans and it's like, what if I can't go there, where am I gonna go? Am I gonna go to France? If I can get there, am I gonna stay in Portland or am I gonna find a job? Or you know, it's. And then the job market, who knows what's gonna happen with that when this is over. Like it could be booming, it could be not booming. So for a newly college graduate to walk into that, it's kind of like.

So yeah, I've thought of that a lot too. Like the graduates, like how do you candidate for a job, you know, you're kind of stuck in Pause.

Tough. It is.

I'll share mine really quick. I think excitement is that in a lot of ways the status quo is gone. Like you don't. What, what status what? Like it's gone. And I read a really good article and said that every company, regardless of how old it is in America, should consider themselves a startup. And I think that's brilliant. And I think higher education is going to be, is going to benefit a lot from that. You know, Hebrews talks about the fact that God is going to shake everything. So you know exactly what's unshakable. So just this shaking of. Are the core pillars of our society somehow is it unprecedented in America that it was locked down? I'm not a historian. Maybe we would have some historian here that will shed a light on the fact that this is quite unprecedented really. And it's gonna shake the core foundation and the pillars of our society of how we're in lockdown and what it meant for us. And it's gonna shake the things, but it's gonna show you what's unshakable. And so the status quo is gone. We have now a chance to really reinvent ourselves, to let go of some things that didn't work for so long, but we just held on to them. They just didn't work. They were not, they were a good idea maybe a hundred years ago, but now we kept going because it was tradition. So Fiddler on the Roof kind of tradition. It's gone. It's gone, right? Some of those traditions are gone. But what. What concerns me is 2007, 2008, the market. The market fell and crashed to pieces and there were 8 million people left without jobs right now. There are 22 million right now. So just to put like the scale of the comparison and Moses, I am with you, but giving the land rest, I think should only be. Should only apply in America. I'm involved in South Sudan and Uganda through Grain for Pain. And I've been doing that for the past 10 years. And right now, people in Uganda, the country of Uganda is locked down and people cannot plant grain. And that is significant. I mean, that is significant. Those people don't have a. Don't have the luxury to give their ground and their earth a chance to breathe, because if the earth breeds, they don't. And so it's just. It's really, really concerning to look at that. I hope and pray exactly like Rob was saying, that the world might actually wake up and realize that we need to care for the person next to us. I also hope there's a concept of. It's called ubuntu, and that comes from Africa. And in America we have pedagogy, andragogy, and all the Gojis, Right? But in Africa, and there's a reason why most western higher education institutions failed on the continent of Africa is because they function very much like Ubuntu Goji. And ubuntu is the care for the person next to you thinking of the other, the concept of caring for the other. And I love that. Ubuntu Goji. It's because what would it mean for us to do education in such a way that prepares us not for us to graduate with the skill and be better at something, but for us to be ready to serve the other. I mean, be skilled and have the mentality that what I do is for the other, not necessarily just for myself. It's really a little bit of anti cultural here, but I'm thinking of Ubuntu, that if we can come out of this and be a little bit more sensitive about the person next to us not having what to eat, not having a job and caring more for that. So that also concerns me, but it gives me a little bit of hope. Any concluding thoughts? I am so thankful. Unfortunately, our time on this podcast is limited and your education was. You're almost done, but leave us with a thought. Leave us with the thought from your heart Leave us with a thought for students coming after you and maybe just starting their education right now. Would you do it again if you had a chance? Leave us with that thought. Give us something for those people coming after you.

Yeah, Just don't forget, every Tuesday and Thursday from 4 to 6, we have ultimate Frisbee. Thank you.

Hey, and by the way, Isaiah is not actually paying for commercials and advertising during MU talks, but we will talk contract. And for the people that don't know, they're actually laughing right now, but they muted their microphones, which doesn't help our audio podcast, but they're laughing. Concluding thoughts. Amy Moses. Rob.

I've got some, but I should let you guys go first. College students.

Go for Dad H. Before beauty.

Take it away.

No, I got no problem with that. By the way, my wife has laughed out loud twice the age before beauty. And then Isaiah's ultimate Frisbee, so that's pretty funny. I can hear her, man. I would say take heart. Take heart, college students. We're gonna get through this, and in a lot of ways, the world is gonna be yours. And I really mean that. You're strong, you're young, you're more resistant to disease than some of us, and there's gonna be opportunities, even with this disease if it spirals out of control. I've been optimistic all the way along on the numbers, and they've gone badly, but they. They're trending better now, so that's great. If this thing continues to go badly, the world is getting younger. There's a lot of older folks dying, and that's going to mean more houses for you and more funds for you. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but a lot of jobs that are going to be open. And so I think it's a good time for young people to take heart, work hard, don't get lazy, and do the right thing. It's going to work out okay.

I don't know if that was encouraging to you, but you're going to have jobs, but thank you, Rob. And I think when you were saying that, I think your wonderful wife left the third time. Amy Moses, any concluding thoughts?

Yeah, I would say. I mean, as difficult as it has become, I think being a college student is not a bad place to be right now, because even though we don't have that community, we still technically do. And we do still have people who are rooting for us, and we have teachers who still want to teach us and friends who are doing it with us. And I just. I think we yeah, I'm just glad to be a college student in this time instead of like a college aged person who's just working and they can't work and they're doing nothing and. Or they have to work and they're just, they don't want to work and they don't have any friends, they can't see their friends, they don't live with their family, all that kind of stuff. So I think as annoying as this has been, like, I think we're in a good place being college students and I think that's the kind of community you want to have behind you at this time of life.

Oh, thank you, Moses.

I think that in America specifically there's kind of almost like a stigma of like, especially for, you know, young people who are just getting done with college or even like while they're still in college. It's like you need to, you need to get out, spread your wings and fly. Right? Like stop. Stop living in your. I literally live in my parents basement. Stop living in your parents basement.

Right.

But I also think that there's no better time than right now to rely on those people who love you and care about you because they, you know, they have more wisdom experience, they're more financially stable and they love you and they want what's best for you. So embrace, embrace the people that you can be around right now, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

Oh, that's a, that's a, that's a wonderful thought. Well, I personally want to thank you for being with us today on MU Talks. You had a chance to hear from Moses, Amy and Isaiah and of course Rob Hilderman and myself. We want to thank you for joining us. He's making signs for people on audio. He's making some signs on our video.

I'm making my own gang signs for MU Talks down from W and then.

The T. Boy, it was a pleasure having you with us. Reach out to us if we can actually help with any questions that you have in the world of academia. We're very thankful to be serving at Multnomah University. And congratulations for your virtual and real graduation. You heard that? It's been said and somebody used to say this and I loved it, that salvation is by faith, but graduation is by works. So congratulations for doing that. You guys have earned it big time and very proud of you and God bless you everybody. Thank you for being with us. Have a good one.

Thank you.

See ya.

Sam.