Taking Risks that Change Your Life

We are back in the studios of Multi University. Everybody, welcome to another episode of MU Talks. Excited to be here with you. This is Aline and Renee in the studio. And as you know, always, we have something really special prepared for you today. Renee.

That's what we enjoy so much about this podcast, is that we have the best guests.

Yes, we do.

So today on the podcast, we are welcoming Cindy Murillo, Cabinet's pastor at Multnomah University. She was born and raised in Southern California, where she grew up in a big Colombian family. She moved to Portland in 2020 and started at Multnomah University as the campus pastor. She has studied Bible, psychology and leadership and has been working in higher ed for some time. Thank you so much for joining us, Cindy. Of course.

And let me just add to that bio. I also love Chick Fil A I Parks and Rec. These are the important things.

These are important. We have to know which quotes we can use, right?

Yes.

That's awesome. Thanks. Well, Cindy, as campus pastor here at Multnomah University, I know you get to walk alongside a lot of students and you get to hear about their journeys, about where they've come from and how they've gotten there. And so I imagine that their stories are a big part of what you do here. And so I just want to start by talking about this idea of story. You know, how does this. How does this serve you in your role? Do you. Do you use story? Do you experience story? Just how does that kind of sit with you?

Yeah, totally. So there is this quote that I heard growing up, and it's super cheesy, and I'll just read it. It says, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Again, that's cheesy. But that has always stuck with me, and that a student really won't care who I am or what I have to say or what I am teaching in chapel or what we're bringing to chapel, until they know that I actually care about them, that I am listening to them, that I'm getting to know them. And so story is huge. When I think about leadership and when I think about leading students on this campus, I want to get to know them. I want to know their story. Each student that's coming to Multnomah is super unique. They have a really individual story that makes them who they are. And so, number one, I want to get to know them. And two, it helps me shape chapel and shape spiritual life in general. Like, if I'm getting to know the Students I'm getting to know what, what I'm going to bring into chapel. And so it's kind of twofold. It's one, so they know that I care, and then two, so that I know how to shape spiritual life in general.

Yeah, I think that our stories, when we, when we're quick to listen to others stories, they have that power to. To transform just how we behave, how we behave around them. Like you're saying how you. How you do your job, how you serve them and provide for them. And story really has like a transformative power, would you say?

Yeah, definitely. I think with, especially with students on campus, I think if I wasn't getting to know them, I wouldn't know how, like where their relationship to church, where their relationship to God is. I think I've learned a lot that a lot of students at Multnomah have never even walked into a church. The first time they're opening a Bible is in their class. And so if I wouldn't have been getting to know them, I would have maybe started chapel at a very different level. And so understanding that, again, helps shape what we're bringing to chapel.

Right. Well, you walk along these side, these students, and they get to share their story with you. But today we're really hoping that you're going to share your story with us. So where do you like to start when you think about what's brought you here today?

Yeah, so I will start with my, I guess my professional and educational journey to what brought me here to Multnomah. But I think I always, always start my story with my parents because they are really the reason that I'm here today. So my parents immigrated from Columbia about 32 years ago with my five siblings. So I'm the youngest of six. And my mom had come to California with my sister ahead of time and just kind of felt like the Lord said, I want you to stay here. And so she called my dad and said, get visas for everybody. We're moving to California. They didn't know the language, they didn't have the money. Like, wow. I think about that and I'm like, I. Like, if I was my dad, I would have been like, you're crazy. Absolutely not. We're not doing that. But they really had this faith that drove them. And so it was kind of unheard of that someone would go, you know, and get visas for so many people. It's hard to get even just a visa for one person, but they were able to get visas for all of them. And so they kind of took that as a sign of like, okay, the Lord is calling us here. And so they moved to California. They knew, like, one other family, and they lived in their garage for a year and just made it work. My brothers talk about having to work at a really young age. They worked at, like, a newspaper.

Oh, like a paper boy.

And they were, like, so young, like 10, 12. Doing that with my parents just to make it work. And so they took that risk and moved here. And so I feel like that is definitely where my story starts. And I'm so, so grateful for them and for their faith story and for their risk taking. So I was the only one born here out of my siblings and grew up in California. Went to elementary, junior high, high school in Orange county area. And I wasn't bad in school. I was just okay. And I had never really been modeled. What happens after high school? I remember everyone was kind of putting down the colleges that they went to, and they were all celebrating. And I just never saw that as an option because it was just never modeled to me. So it was like April or May, like, when you're about to graduate. And I still had no idea what I was doing. And I wasn't worried about it. I just didn't know. And the only thing that had been modeled to me was my brother went to Bible school, and he was the campus pastor at the Bible school that I ended up with or ended up at. And so I just went there because I didn't know what else to do. Now I'm so grateful that I went there because it was really transformative for my spirituality and for my relationship with the Lord. So I went to. It's called the Latin American Bible Institute in Los Angeles. And I went there for about two years. And then again, I was kind of, like, stuck again. I don't know what happens after Bible school. Like, what do people do? And luckily, that Bible school had a connection with Vanguard University, where students could kind of transfer over to certain degrees. And so there was only a few that I could choose from. I always thought I wanted to be a teacher, I think, again, because I had only seen that, like, with women at my church. They were teachers. And so I'm like, okay, I guess I'll be a teacher. But that. That wasn't an option of one of the. The degrees to go into. And so I kind of just picked a random one. I picked psychology. And I was like, okay, we'll do this. I had no idea what FAFSA was. I had no idea how to sign up for Classes, I just kind of went with the flow and figured it out as I went. And again, I'm so gr. Grateful for that because I feel like psychology taught me how to care, listen, be with people. And. And then from there, again, kind of just. I saw people around me going into grad school, and I was like, well, I don't think that's for me. And so I kind of just paused there. And again, I thought I wanted to be a teacher. So I went to a private school where you don't have to necessarily have your credentials to teach, but I knew someone, and so they let me teach kindergarten for a little, and I was like, I don't really like that. And at the same time, I was dating my now husband, and he was really connected to the vice president of student life at Vanguard. And at the time, Vanguard was really growing in their Hispanic population, and they were becoming an HSI school. So Hispanic serving institutions. Yeah, Hispanic serving institution. And so they had funding to hire an HSI coordinator. And so the VP of student life goes to Jonathan and is like, hey, doesn't your wife know Spanish? And he's like, yeah. And he's like, oh, you should tell her to apply for this job. I had no higher ed background. I, like, had been to Vanguard for a little bit, studying psychology, but I didn't. I. I wasn't involved on campus. I didn't know, you know, campus life or anything like that, but I was like, sure, I'm not qualified, but I'll apply. And from there started my higher ed journey. I'm so, so grateful. His name is Tim Young. I'm so grateful that he took a risk on me and just allowed me to do the job, even though I definitely was not qualified. And then I worked in the diversity and inclusion office for about three years. And then since I was working at Vanguard, I. I knew that there was tuition remission for staff. And so that's when I was like, oh, I should get my master's degree. I can get it for free. Why not? That's when I studied leadership studies. And again, so grateful for that opportunity. And around the same time, I transitioned over into student life and did that for about four years. So was at Vanguard, total for seven years working on staff. I loved Vanguard. And then the. Okay, so then I got pregnant, slash, the pandemic hit, and I had Bella, and that's my daughter. And there was lots of time to think and just figure out, like, what we wanted to do next as a family and even professionally, like, what did. What did I Want to do next? I'd been at Vanguard for seven years. I loved it, but I kind of felt like I was being pulled in a different direction for next season and really enjoyed the opportunity to mentor students and walk with students and thought, hey, I wonder if maybe I should kind of transition into campus ministry. And I thought, why not? Let me just look to see if there's any openings. I never thought I'd move to Portland or anywhere outside of California really. And like I said, I was a new mom, so I wanted to work part time too. So that was kind of another thing is like, I wanted to be in campus ministry, but I wanted to work part time. And I had been to Multnomah's campus once before because I had a friend that worked here. And so I was like, oh yeah, Multnomah. I just happened to look on their website and saw that they were hiring a part time campus pastor. And so it felt a little too good to be true. So I'm like, I just have to apply and see what happens. And I applied and so here we are. So that's a little bit of my educational professional journey that got me here.

Yeah, that it's a really exciting journey. I really enjoyed hearing just all the like, twists and turns that you took. And I think like the first thing that I think of as, as we go down that journey is you didn't plan any of that, right? Like you said when you were first getting out of high school, even you're like, I didn't know what, I didn't know what a person does. So you couldn't have planned any of that and you didn't plan any of that. So can you talk a little bit about like, when you reflect on the fact that you didn't plan and yet here you are like, what, what does, what does that make you think about?

Totally. I am a planner, like through and through. So it is funny that each of those steps in my journey were not planning planned. And I think it all was like risk taking. And I did it with sweaty palms and like, you know, sweaty armpits. Like, okay, this is scary, but I'm going to say yes and just see what happens and like believe that maybe this could be a really cool opportunity. And also I wanted to kind of forge the way for people too. You know, I'm like, I want other young Hispanic girls to see someone that is educated and to see that they could do it too. The first time that I ever saw someone that looked like me was. Wasn't until I got into college in, like, a professional teacher setting. And I didn't even notice that until, like, my teacher was teaching me. And I'm like, whoa, I've never seen a female Hispanic woman teach me anything. And so then that kind of, I guess, sparked something in me too, of like, oh, I want to be this for, for other young Hispanic women too.

Yeah. So would you describe yourself as a risk taker?

Like, oh, my gosh, no, I don't think so.

So it's not just that this is your personality and.

Oh, gosh, no, not at all, not at all. And I. And the other thing I'll say about risk taking is I, I never do it alone. I feel like I always bring people alongside me where I'm like, can you help me pray through this? Can you help me think through this? Am I missing anything? Like, am I not seeing certain things because I'm such a planner? Because every time I take a risk, it feels so crazy. Like, what am I doing? Can you help me think about what I might be missing? And so, no, I'm not normally a risk taker, but I'm grateful for the people around me that help me take those risks.

I think we are, we are truly honored to hear part of your story. I have the, the absolute pleasure of working with Cindy at Multomo University and seeing the effects of your work with the students and the presence that. And the way you are actually lifting the whole campus spiritually. And it's not, it's not an easy feat. It really is not. Portland, Oregon, west coast of America, students dealing with all kinds of things. But one thing that I want to ask about, which is it's very interesting, is it would be, it would be so foolish of us to think that that story of three minutes, of five minutes, doesn't have so many complexities in it. But there is a, there's a thread in there that I like to pull on a little bit, and that is said yes to the things that were coming in front of you. And it's not, it's not easy. Right. Opportunities come. And you said yes. I'm curious about the power that fuel you to actually say yes. You've mentioned one thing that already captured my attention. The people that you have around you, how important they are. But, but with all the risk, not being a risk taker with all this, you said yes. And you move some things forward and, and you took opportunities even though they had risk, even though they didn't plan them. And you're in a planner. What, what, what powers that, what Makes you say yes to opportunities that come and they come with challenges. They come with tremendous.

Yeah, I think there's also just a tug from the Holy Spirit. Right. We're at a Christian university, so I can say that yes, yes. I, I think as I'm praying through and thinking through things, I. I feel led towards something. And so I think that's also the, I guess the help that helps me say yes to certain things is when I feel like it's very clear from the Lord that this is the next step. Because like I said, like, I do it with sweaty palms and I do it crying. When we moved to Portland, I was literally like, what the heck am I doing? Like, I have a six month old, I'm leaving my entire family. It's the middle of a pandemic. Like, what am I doing? But I can't deny the, like, peace that I feel. It's like there's still tears, but there's peace in my heart of making that next step. And I think trusting again, the people around me that I believe have been praying with me and have been counseling me. And if I don't, I'm basically like, give me any red flags. And if there aren't any red flags from the people around me either, then I think that's what helps me say the yes too.

Yeah, I see a lot of similarities, at least in how you describe this risk taking and what you described that your mom did all those years ago. Have you guys ever had a chance to like, talk about that and like, does her risk taking kind of not fuel but like, support yours or how does that relationship.

I. I haven't had a chance to talk to her about it. I should.

Yeah.

I think a little bit though, in, in that I'm like, put your girl, big girl, pants on and just do it. Like, your mom didn't know the language. She had five kids with no money, and like, she did it. You know the language. You have a job, Your husband has a job. Like, you can do it. And so I think about, I think about their immigrant story and I'm like, you have nothing to complain about. I think that's what I go to. But I do, I do want to reminisce on that with her and kind of compare and hear a little bit more about. About her story. So.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna kind of bring. So that kind of takes it to the past, right? Like making that connection. But I'm wondering then, how do you use some of these experiences as you walk along with students. Now, because you're walking with students who are looking into the future, their own future, and, and do you find opportunities to talk about how to. How to take these like, well measured but still very scary risks?

Yeah, I think one of the things is because people have taken risks on me where I wasn't qualified for any of these things I just mentioned. Right. But people have taken risks on me and so I want to take risks on students. If I see a student that maybe isn't really qualified, let's just say to be a spiritual life intern or to be a student leader or whatever it may be, I want to give them the opportunity to do that because maybe they just haven't been given that opportunity. And so they. They just don't know what that looks like. And so I think I noticed that trend in me of wanting to create opportunities for students and truly students of color, really, because that's just my story. I really love being able to connect with students of color and hear their story and hear where maybe they don't feel supported and be able to support them in that way and create opportunities for them to feel supported. I think I enjoy taking risks on students.

I.

We live in a time. I think here's. Here's a very superficial analysis and please feel free to push back on it. Well, where we actually run away from people's stories. So if people travel, they put headphones on like God, for you're in an airplane, you always look who's gonna be right next to me. I don't want to talk or I want to.

Yeah.

So we put headphones on.

We.

And I think there's many things that are now working against somebody's story, including sometimes our selfishness of. Of wanting to be heard and not wanting to listen to others and all this. You are in a unique position where not. Not just your job or your personality, who you are, you're pursuing that story. Two questions is a twofold question. What are some of the. Some of the things that really you've learned through learning, listening to people's stories and, and how do you handle. What mechanisms have you developed to handle hearing all that? How do you process. How do you take all those stories in? Because it's not an easy feat. I think there's some reasons why people run away from it. I don't agree with it. I think we're missing a lot, a lot when we don't listen to the stories behind. I believe a power of discussion, the power of a one discussion is you will never be able to actually estimate the power of one good conversation in our life, how it might transform us. Ask Nicodemus about that as the woman of the well, how did that go? Just one conversation, this random stranger coming out of nowhere, and their whole life just changed completely. So, so we are, I understand why people do it, but I think there's tremendous mess when we run away from people's stories. From your perspective, what have you gained from investing in actually sitting down, listening to the actual story and then mechanisms of actually dealing with. Because it's not, they're not easy stories, right?

Yeah. I think the word that comes to mind is empathy. I naturally want to judge someone when they're telling me their story. You know, I want to be like, well, why did you do that? Or why it doesn't make sense, you know, Or I don't think that way, so you must be wrong. But I have to, like, shield that and like, almost check my own self of, like, this isn't about you right now. Like, slow down and just listen and be with the person. And like you said, this might be the one time in their entire day where someone is actually taking the time to just listen and just be and actually hear them. And so asking a lot of questions, I think, is, is key. And yeah, listening with an empathetic voice, not with or with empathetic ears, not trying to fix them or trying to maybe tell them things they could have done differently, but just listen and, and listen without judgment, I think, is another thing. I think sometimes students are nervous because they, like, see campus pastor in my title, and they just think like, oh, I don't want to maybe tell her everything or she might judge me or whatever it may be. And I just try to just listen and just, and make them feel seen and heard. And so, yeah, empathy, I think, is the biggest thing. And then the second part of your question was tools was how do you.

Deal in, you know, carrying all those stories into what mechanisms are you for your own wellness? Because carrying those cannot be, cannot be easy. Sometimes the stories are heavy.

Yes. I think one thing is on my way home, if, if I've had conversations that feel really heavy throughout my day, on my way home, I, I will just process. I won't listen to music. I won't try to, like, zone it out. I'll kind of just process what I just heard. I think that's one thing. And then talking to my husband about things, if it's appropriate. And then the biggest thing is I, I, I have a spiritual direction group that I think is like, my core people that I can, I don't know, unpack my own stuff with as well and go to them if. If needed. So. Okay. I hope that answers the question.

Oh, yeah, no, that's very good. Very good. Thank you. Well, I can't believe we're almost getting to time. I'm excited about Rapid Fire, but are there any. Are there any other questions for this before we get to the.

Cindy, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing all of that with me. I know so many things along your journey really remind me of my own journey, and I think that hearing someone talk about those risks, well, it would have been really helpful to a younger me. So I'm really excited for you to share that because I think that often, maybe it's just because I'm also a planner and someone with that kind of personality, you can tend to feel like nothing should be a risk. And if it feels like a risk, then it must not be right. But so many of the right steps that you took were entirely. They were entirely risky to you, even though they weren't risky in the hands of the father. And so I'm just really excited that you came to share that with everyone today.

Thank you. Thanks for inviting me and allowing me to be a part of this.

Yeah.

And can I. Can I say one more thing? I'm so thankful that you are vulnerable with us and tell us, like, your initial thoughts of hearing something is like, well, that does sound right. Like, this is because, you know, you have that internal things for somebody that does this with excellence here on campus. And I'm so thankful for it. To hear stories. Sometimes it's okay to internally say, like, wow, that sounds very different than I would have do that. And those processing those thoughts and being vulnerable that we have those thoughts, but then what you do with them, how do you move forward? How do you actually still allow the conversation to happen without stopping and be like, well, that's not right.

Yeah.

Right. But I loved. Because it gave me a chance to breathe and be like, yeah, I hear some stories sometimes. And I'm like, that's just really weird. That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard. But then allow that to happen. Right. So you gave us. I love that you gave us permission to actually be.

Absolutely. Can I add one more thing to that? Just reminded me, I think also recognizing that students are. Are young, when they come to college, there's still so much time for them to grow. I am not the same person that I was when I was 18 or 19. And I. I'm sure so many of the staff members that I worked with probably judged the way that I would think. And so I think that's where the empathy comes from too, is just realizing, like, hey, there's still so much opportunity for them to grow. Grow and think differently. And even if they don't think differently, you know, that's okay too. But yeah. So.

Wow, interesting. Well, as parents now, I. I can't believe I'm saying this. Like, we. We look at, you know, what they're doing now and we're analyzing with our eyes now. But like, I'm thinking, when I was their age, man, I wish no, somebody would not judge me like that because I was doing some stuff. Okay. And you, you've heard it first on mu. Talk about the permission to actually be vulnerable. So thank you. We are. The reason I love rapid fire. The reason I am actually excited about rapid fire is we get to know who Cindy is. Not the campus pastor of Wellnorma University, but who Cindy is. And so we're gonna have some. Some rapid fire questions. Fresh questions coming. An emu talks. Renee, you want to go for it?

I do.

Here we go.

What would you sing at karaoke night?

Oh, no.

What would I sing at karaoke night? Right now? What's coming to mind is encanto songs from the Disney movie. Just because that's what's going in my house.

They're awesome.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. Well, we don't talk about anyway. Do you have any collections?

Do I have collections? No. I'm not cool. I am not.

What?

You know, I don't have any collections.

If you could have a superpower, what would it be?

I. What's it called when you can travel?

Like time travel or like.

Yeah, like if I'm fingers.

Yeah.

Like I want to be in California right now. She's like my fingers.

If you could be anywhere, you just go to California, you can take a two hour. I know you would use your superpower.

I'm just missing the sun right now. That's really what it is.

You know what? You've heard it here on a new talks that she would use her superpower. That's how much she loves.

Yes.

But do you have a secret town it.

I. No, I mean, I guess I. I'm good at thrifting. I'm good at finding like, that is a good, like brand name stuff for like, really, really cheap. And then I sell it on my poshmark. Go find me on poshmark.

I love the segue to that. Oh, here we go.

I love it.

Okay, we need to connect after this podcast. Let's go. Something.

Let's see. What is your favorite room in your home?

Oh, probably my room, because we just added a tv, so now I can say my room.

If you could have a lifetime supply of anything, what would it be?

Chick Fil A.

That's how much you love it.

Yeah, that's how much I love it. They just opened one five minutes from my house and.

Did they?

I'm so happy. Okay.

Yeah, I thought there's only one on one. Okay.

All right. Do you love or hate roller coasters?

Probably love, because I grew up in California, so I grew up going to Disneyland and Six Flags Knott's Berry Farm.

Wow.

And here's my last question before. Before we go in, we always end with the same three questions, which is it gives us a chance to really see from. From one guest to another. Their. Their view on. On education is something that we do here. But if you had a pet parrot, what would you teach it to say? If you had a parrot, what would you do?

Cindy is the best.

Every time you walk in, every time you need a hype parrot. Yeah, that's funny.

Okay, well, tell us about a time in your educational journey. Could be anytime from childhood to present that was memorable or formative for you.

Okay, so I stuck with the word memorable. And this might be a little bit more depressing, but what was memorable for me was being in elementary school and having parents who didn't know English and having to translate at parent teacher conferences for my teacher and for my parents back and forth, and then having, like, you know, having them. Having to translate, like, my documents to them and having them sign certain things. So that's. That's what I remember from elementary school.

Wow.

Well, if you could change one thing about education, what would it be?

I would have more resources and more money available to schools that are maybe a little more disadvantaged or don't have the same access as other universities or other schools in general. Yeah.

Okay. And what is something that you've learned recently or that you're currently learning?

I'm in a spiritual formation program right now, and so I'm just learning about a ton of different spiritual practices and how to connect with God and how to then be able to teach those to other people, which has been really fun.

So that's really exciting for Multnomah. Yeah. Yeah.

What I heard is a segue and another. Another podcast episode. Just on that topic.

Yeah.

With Cindy on spiritual formation.

Great.

What an important discussion. Well, thank you so much, Cindy, for being with us. Also, thank you. I'm using the podcast to thank you for the excellent work that you're doing among my university. And thank you for being vulnerable with us, sharing your story. We really appreciate it.

Of course.

Okay, everyone, thank you for being with us on MU Talks. And as you know, the views opinions expressed on MU Talks do not belong to Monoma University, but rather to the guest and the host of But MU Talks.

Thank you.