The Importance of Creativity for All of Life

Foreign. Welcome back to a new episode of MU Talks. So excited to have you back with us in on our podcast. And today I'm actually very excited because we get to share another powerful voice from our community with you. And Renee will help us get to know who this person is.

That's right. Today, MU Talks is excited to welcome Professor Heather Lomolder to the podcast. Heather is the director and chair of the Business Administration program here at Multnomah University where she's also a professor of Business administration. Before Multnomah, Heather spent almost 20 years working in business, primarily in the field of marketing, including for well known companies such as Jack in the Box and Petco. Thanks for coming on the podcast, Heather.

Thanks for having me, guys.

Yeah, we're so glad you're here. So I'm going to just admit right off the bat that I know almost nothing about business and marketing, but I'm really fascinated by it. So would you maybe just start by sharing with us a little bit about how you came to be involved in business and why marketing and what that kind of has meant in your life.

Sure. So growing up I had a lot of creative interests and then I went to college and thought, should I study business or should I study music? And but business just seemed like the practical thing to do. And so I took business classes. My very first business class in college, we did a little session on marketing. I went to college in Idaho and they had us create a product that included potato in it. And so my group came up with Spudge Fudge and we did this whole marketing campaign for it. And I just thought it was so fun because it was a way to be creative. But there's an analytical side of that. So that's how I decided in college to study marketing. And then I was fortunate after graduate school to get a marketing job at Petco Animal Supplies and then Jack in the Box restaurants, both in San Diego. And so just really had a wonderful experience working for big companies and getting to figure out how to communicate messages. Essentially, that's a lot of what marketing is doing. You're communicating messages to stakeholders of some sort. So then about three years ago, I started teaching at Multnomah. It was always a dream of mine to move into academia. My college professors were very impactful in my life and so that was a dream of mine. And so I've been delighted to be here the last three years. So I teach some general business classes here and then I teach the marketing classes that we offer. Wow.

So kind of going back, you were going to study either music or business.

Right.

And you found this really great way to kind of combine the two. Not necessarily combine music, but combine this very artistic creative outlet that is marketing.

Exactly.

Yeah. So you've probably thought a lot about creativity and maybe you could kind of tell us what, what is creativity like kind of in a general way and, and then how that works into your life now.

Yeah, sure. So creativity is generating meaningful or original ideas.

So.

And I love, when we open our Bibles, the very beginning of Genesis talks about how God is a creator and, and then as people created in his image, we are all creators as well. So we all have the ability to create new ideas. And then I also, I think about how Jesus in the New Testament talks about how we should become like little children. And little children, as we know are always exploring and wandering and playing and making up stories. And I think sometimes we lose that as we grow up. I know both of you have kids. I'm guessing they probably both spend more time being creative in their given days than you do. And that's just something that we tend to lose as we grow up. But it can be so beneficial to businesses and to us personally to be more creative.

Yeah. So then do you think, do you think that. So we're all creative. So what you're saying, what kind of happens? Because plenty of people would say that they aren't creative or that only some people are creative. Do you come into that in the classroom talking to students about how to maybe convince them that they also are creative?

I think we all have the ability to be creative. Some people I think go to it more naturally. But like any muscle, we all, it's something that we can improve with practice. There are practices that you can add to your life to increase your creativity and then that it can, there's there benefits to you personally for being more creative. But in your work setting, if you are more creative, it can help you professionally. I think, I think about for a lot of us, your jobs, a lot of business jobs. A lot of our work is, is solving problems. And so if, if people, even if they're not naturally creative, if, if they can get better at thinking creatively, they can be better at solving problems. And if, if a business stops solving problems, if they just keep doing something the same way they've always done it, another company will come in with a new approach, with a novel approach and they will still market share. And so businesses have to always be thinking about how can they solve problems differently or more others. Another benefit and why I encourage people to think about being creative is it can help you be more productive. So instead of sometimes we might just be at our desks doing the same thing day in and day out. But if we take time to kind of step away, go for a walk, think creatively, we might find ways to work smarter rather than harder. So that can be a benefit to people professionally to kind of tap into the creative side. And then the third reason way I think being creative helps people professionally is it helps you to become more adaptable. And we saw this during COVID that some businesses were really adaptable and when the world changed, they quickly switched to delivery. Or businesses would offer facetime shopping where they'd walk around with their phones with customers on the other end. Or factories would switch and become factories that created hand sanitizer. So some, some businesses became very, very adaptable. And that's very related to creativity. So improving our creativity can help professionally in various ways. And then here in education, we're, we're trying to figure out how can we be more creative, how can we improve education? Practicing our creativity muscles can help us think differently there as well.

Yeah. So this practicing our creativity muscles, talk about and using that in your business, do you see that mostly as an individual effort or as a collaborative effort? How does creativity map onto either individuals or teams?

Great question. Individually, I think there are things that we can all do to improve our creativity. But leaders of businesses or leaders of teams can. Can do things to help the organization or the team foster creativity. One thing that comes to mind is just creating a creative environment. So I think we all hear stories about businesses like Google that they intentionally set up creative workspaces. Like reportedly they have sewing machines and workshops where you can work with wood or do things that are creative. And then so, and obviously we don't have the budget for that.

Most business, we have wood.

Right.

We have a lot of wood.

We can do that here. But there are things, you know, maybe it's just post it notes and colors or flip charts or something that's beanbags. Things that can foster creativity. So setting up a work environment or a space at work that especially if you're trying to solve problems, that you can be in a creative space. That's one idea. Another way that teams and leaders can foster creativity is to reward failure, or at least not punish failure. So if, if a failure happens, you launch something and it fails or something, something fails to actually celebrate that. I think about a time when I worked at Jack in the Box.

We.

We launched smoothies a while before Fruit smoothies but they tested a booster like a vitamin booster in the fruit smoothie at Jack in the Box restaurants and the test market, it failed. Customers that came to Jack in the Box for smoothies just, they weren't, it wasn't the same Jamba Juice customer that wanted the vitamin C booster or Vitaboost in their smoothie. And so the test failed. But I remember that our, our chief marketing officer stood up in a meeting with all the whole marketing team and just congratulated everybody for taking a risk, for trying and trying and failing because she wanted to reiterate that we will have to fail if we're going to have wins. And that was just a very memorable moment that we celebrated failure because sometimes you have to fail if you're going to be innovative. So I think that's another way that teams or businesses can foster creativity. And I think the third way is just to encourage diversity. So having diversity of all types, races, genders, ages, cultural backgrounds. When you're trying to solve a problem or you're trying to be creative, if you have people with different perspectives at the table, you're going to be able to think more creatively and have, you'll have different ideas rather than this concept of group think if everyone thinks the same way. So those are some ways that leaders of groups and teams can foster creativity.

Yeah. I imagine though that going a creative route or fostering creativity also takes more time sometimes.

Right.

You talked about it being a way to work smarter and in a lot of ways actually make the most of your time. But first, that creative process, it must take more time. So how, how can maybe leaders who feel like they don't have time to be creative, is, is that true? Is it possible that they don't have time to be creative? Or are there other ways to think about it that can kind of help get over that hump?

Right. And I would challenge businesses to think, do you have, do you not have time to be creative? Because if you don't, you might be missing big opportunities. And if you can take time to think creatively, you might find solutions to problems that you didn't know existed. So I think intentionally making creativity a priority would be important for businesses or leaders of teams.

Yeah, I'm so excited that we are talking about creativity because I think there's some natural enemies to creativity, including some companies not knowing how to measure that and being so measure driven. And one of my favorite sayings in business, I always respect the world of business. I think we all benefit from it. We all are hired for somebody that actually will work for somebody that took the risk of starting a business, whether it's a university or everything around us. So we all should pay attention to this world of business. So thank you for coming, Heather, today to actually talk about this.

You're welcome.

But measuring and being obsessed with measuring creativity and if you cannot measure it, let's not do it. That kind of approach that I've seen with more established institutions and, and really how difficult it is to create this culture of creativity. But I'm curious, from your perspective, how does creativity help people personally?

Right. So creativity. There are a lot of studies that show how creativity can help people's health, which is very.

Oh, interesting.

Interesting, yes. Some studies show that people who are more creative actually live longer. And it has to do with kind of connections in the brain. There are studies that show that music therapy can boost your immune system. So taking time to be creative, playing music. And that's to your earlier question of do we have time to be creative? Well, if it makes you live longer and it can boost your immune system so you're not sick, those can actually give you more time. There's also, there are studies that show that music, which is one form of creativity, can help connect your left and right brains, which improves cognitive functioning. So health is a benefit to people for being creative. It also is beneficial to mental health. And we know with the pandemic there were a lot of challenges with mental health. But when we're being creative, so any kind of creative activity, problem solving, it can release dopamine into our brain, which is a natural antidepressant. There also are studies that show that drying, painting, molding can help people who are dealing with trauma. So that's also a benefit to mental health and even like acting. There are studies that if you have, there's a study with elderly adults and they were encouraged to do some acting. And there were studies that showed that their psychological well being improved after four weeks. So maybe we need to start an acting club here, you know, help us be creative and improve our cognitive functioning. And then the last way that being creative helps us kind of personally is around stress and anxiety, also related to mental health. But creative activity has been shown to reduce depression and isolation. So for anyone who might be listening, who's just feeling like, wow, this time is really hard, maybe getting out and doing something creative, drawing for a while, painting for a while, even looking at nature and looking at all the colors, dancing different things like that can help with stress and anxiety. And part of why this works is that when you are doing something creative and you're really focused on it. Your mind is so engrossed in what you're doing that you can temporarily forget about your troubles. So if, if you are like in a stressful situation, doing something creative can help take your mind off of it because you're focused on something else.

Yeah, I was, I was. I'm so thankful that you mentioned this because I was listening to a research that was done recently on the effects of technology on children and the fact that it messes with dopamine. But the problem that it did is that it started replacing the ability for people to actually naturally develop and create and actually have dopamine. It made it for you, it gave you that feeling. But your body stops forget like, doesn't do it anymore. So you just, you know, it gives you that excitement and then nothing that you do would actually do that for you. And, and that was the first of its kind that I've seen that the, the direct. Now we're getting more and more research on the, you know, the impact of using a lot of technology, iPads, all this for children and for. Even for people that you've spent too much time in front of a computer. Too much. I'm in front of the television and Netflix and Chill and all the craziness that's going on, it actually replaces that. That dopamine that, you know, the producing. The producing of it. Of your body.

So interesting.

And so doing creative things. Right. Launches you into a whole different level and it's. That affects all these. So that. That's very powerful. Now we are, we're actually. I can't even believe we're actually at time.

Half.

Half time. Half time of our podcast. And because of that, I know we don't usually have a chance to go in depth with these discussions, but. But creativity is such a wide subject. So can we get a little bit deeper into types of creativity so we can understand even better, put some things in context.

Yes. So creativity, as I mentioned, is, is coming up with new ideas generally, but they're also creative. Creative thinking also includes two categories known as convergent and divergent thinking. So convergent thinking is when you are combined, when you're like bringing things together, so you're combining multiple, sometimes different pieces of information to find a solution that links them. And having that kind of creativity can help you solve problems really quickly. So you have a limited amount of data and you can pull things. And I thought it might be fun to do a little activity. I'm putting a bit on the Spot. But there's, like, a test that measures this kind of creative thinking. I'm not putting each of you individually. Team, tag, team. This.

We've been through worse in the history of the podcast. Renee can tell you we've been through worse.

I'm sure. I'm sure you have. Okay, so I will give you three words that kind of have a word that can connect to them. And so this is an example of just convergent thinking. Okay, you ready?

Here we go.

Okay, here are the words. Aid, rubber and wagon.

Wagon.

Rubber and aid. And there's one word that can connect the three of them.

Do I say it or.

It's banned.

It's banned. Excellent. Yes.

So I wanted to say money.

Oh, well, I could see that.

Divergent thinking.

Rubber band. It's creative. Divergent thinking and bandwagon.

Okay, great.

Okay, here's another one. Okay, so you get the idea. Next one. Coin.

Quick.

And spoon.

Cereal.

Okay, good idea.

Oh, I had.

Nothing's coming to mind. That is such a silver. So silver coin. Quicksilver. Silver spoon. Oh, you guys are doing great. Okay, one last. You win if you get two out of three. Okay, so I was thinking it's cheap.

You eat it fast. And what was the third one?

Spoon.

Spoon.

Yeah. You need to spoon, too.

Yeah. So, okay, so here's the third.

Cottage.

Okay.

Swiss and cake.

Cheese.

Cheese, yes. So perfect. That's an example of convergent thinking. So it's like pulling ideas together, and they're. Yeah. There are ways that you can practice. I'll talk a little bit later about some games to practice that kind. So that's convergent thinking. Then there's divergent thinking, which is trying to generate as many different ideas. So the other one, you're kind of pulling ideas together. Divergent is a kind of creativity where you're thinking of a lot of new ideas, different ideas, unexpected ideas. So an example of this might be, like, if I had in this room a box, like a brown box, and we did a creative creativity exercise, and I said, how many different uses can we come up with for this box? What could the box be used for? That would be an idea, an example of divergent thinking, or an activity for our podcast listeners at home. Here's an activity that you could try to do is wherever you are, sit around, find an object that's close to you. So, yeah, like a chair we could find in this room that we could look at, set a timer for three minutes and then write down as many uses for that object as you could think of and be as silly and out there as you can. And that can help you improve your divergent thinking. Of how many different ways could you use this? And then kind of the people who study creativity think there's basically three different ways to evaluate how good you are at divergent thinking. The first is what's known as fluency. So how many different ideas in three minutes? We came up with ideas for what we could use this chair for. Fluency is how many ideas you came up with originality. Second, which is how novel these ideas are. And then the third is flexibility, which is how different from each other are your ideas. So that's kind of a way to practice what's known as divergent creativity.

I feel like that's the kind of creativity that at least my kids are the best at. That's the thing almost that they have that I have lost essentially in growing is that ability to just think way outside the box.

Right? Yeah, I'm sure probably if you did this exercise with your kids, they would just be outside and we, we kind of self police ourselves like we will. Which kids don't tend to do. They tend to love all the ideas and we tend to think, oh, that wouldn't work, that wouldn't work. But creativity and this kind of thinking is like a muscle that we can work on. And just practicing those skills can then help translate into other aspects of our life where being creative can be helpful.

Yeah, go ahead.

I was just going to ask if this, these kinds of practices are things that you encourage your students to do in class. Like is this part of your business model that you teach?

So in our organizational behavior class, we study about creativity related to innovation. And we do, we do some activities both in this class and in management class about how to bring like what are the best ways to brainstorm as a group. And there are guidelines around how do you brainstorm. Well, so you know the first rule. There are no bad ideas in brainstorming. But often if you do a brainstorming, just a simple tip is you always should have people individually write down all of their ideas first before you start sharing. Because you can. Otherwise you can get in a group think where people go down a line of thinking. So if you just said we're going to brainstorm today, have everyone write down the thoughts and you might have even a quota, an idea quota. Say everyone needs to come up with 15 ideas. Write your 15 ideas down and then before you start sharing and then by doing it individually you will, it won't be as limiting as if you had everyone talk Together first. Yeah.

Because if somebody said something, it just sets the tone for the level and the standard.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of short circuits that, that process of brainstorming because you start to police then comparatively.

Right, Exactly.

Yeah.

I'm. So we've, we've discussed about business, and in the context of this discussion, we're talking mostly about creativity, which I'm excited about. And would you say that this is a huge value this day in business, that businesses, individuals should actually invest heavily in this?

It is incredibly important. There are certain fields within business, marketing fields, creative fields, that this is mission critical. But I would think for most fields of business, having this ability to think differently can be very helpful. For leaders, for business, for people who are responsible for strategy, this kind of thinking is incredibly important. And I think just for the personal reasons, the health reasons that we talked about, I think everyone having some, adding some creativity into their lives can just help with general well being, which we know that happy employees are better employees as well. So for your own professional happiness, if you're taking care of yourself personally and you're doing all the things, exercising, getting sleep, but then adding this creativity component of, of just taking time to do some creative things, if you're happier as an individual, then you will show up at work better too.

That makes sense. Can you, before we end this podcast, can you give us some tips to improve your personal creativity?

Okay.

Okay, here we go. Okay, here we go.

Okay. The first, which is pretty easy, I think, although it might take some time, is to just get a creative hobby, if you don't have one already. So I imagine. I know you're a musician, Aline, so you have a creative hobby. Renee, do you have creative hobbies?

I mean, I think being a mom is just extremely creative.

Right.

Like, I find that I have all kinds of, like, mental exercises on how to bring things together and a lot of times those kinds of logistical puzzles that I do just in being a mom, especially a mom of four. Yeah, I think that's a creative outlet. It is.

And you're probably doing creative things all the time. So, you know, in hobbies that the listeners here could, could think about would be just drawing or sewing or painting or woodworking or gardening. For me, last year I picked up creating movies and imovie when I would go on a little trip for the weekend or whatever, just put together an imovie and it allowed me to just put a little creativity into my life in a just a small way. So creativity can take a lot of form. So that's first, get some kind of hobby where you can be creative. The second tip I have for everyone is to take some breaks to let your mind wander, especially if you're trying to solve a big problem. And so I think often we're trying to solve a problem at work and the tendency is just to like sit in front of our computers trying to solve it. Often you would be better to go for a walk in nature and to just let your mind think about something else for a while and then come back to it. And in that time it's often known as kind of the incubation period while you're not thinking about it. That's often when the ideas come and just kind of a story on this. We all, we've all heard of Isaac Newton, how he came up with the law of gravity. He wasn't in the library looking at books when he came up with the law. He was out in an apple orchard where he could see an apple falling from a tree. So he, he was out. And so it's taking time to, to not just be in front of our computers, in front of books, but being away from things and letting your mind kind of think about it while we're not like focused on it is another way. A third way to improve creativity is around playing games. So we talked about divergent thinking. Some great games for that are Scattergories. So you can play that with your family code names. Taboo. These games all can help exercise that part of our brain. A fourth tip would be around setting some creativity goals for yourself. So one goal could be just to say every day I'm just going to do one creative thing, even if it's five minutes. So it could be that I'm going to sing for five minutes a day or I'm going to free write in my journal or I'm going to cook something new so it doesn't have to be a long thing, paint, whatever, but just a, like a five minute creativity goal just to add it into your life. A fifth idea is, is around exploring multiple solutions to problems. And I alluded to this a bit earlier, but if you have a problem like where should you take your kids on a mini vacation? You could just say, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Or you can say, I'm going to give myself a goal of coming up with 20 ideas. And you force yourself to think of multiple solutions before you pick one because it forces you to look at different approaches. I have just three more.

So I feel like we're doing that in our Marriage. I just feel like we always put 20 ideas on.

Awesome. That's great.

Drives us crazy.

Yeah. Then you have to figure out how.

Do you agree on the one too many ideas.

Yeah. Okay, so the, the sixth idea is, it's something known as the six thinking hats. And it was developed by Edward De Bono. He was the. A leader in lateral thinking. So there's, he's written several books and there's a lot around this. But he talks about if you have a problem, and this could apply personally and professionally, but you have a problem, you're trained to solve to how to look at the problem from many different perspectives. And he talked about these different colored hats, like a white hat, blue hat, red hat, yellow hat, black hat, where you could like not really put on the hat, but pretend you're putting on a, like a yellow hat. The yellow hat is to think about all the positive perspectives of that problem. The white hat is looking at all of the objective parts of that, the facts. The red hat is looking at the, the problem from an emotional aspect. So you can, you can think about, okay, here's my problem. If I put on this red hat, how would I look at it if I put on the yellow hat? I've seen this happen in groups as well. So a team could say, okay, I'm wearing this color hat and this is how I'm looking at the problem. And it can kind of have people think about something differently. The seventh idea to be more creative is to be looking for inspiration. So if you're feeling like you're in a rut in life, you can go visit a museum, listen to a podcast that totally different than what you normally listen to. Sign up for. Yes, listen. Right, exactly. It's a great one. Yes, yes. Sign up for a class, listen to some new music, but do things in your life to add inspiration. And then the last one, just a simple thing anyone could do is like pick up a sketchbook and then just instead of looking at your phone while you're waiting for the max or in a line, just sketch something and that will engage your creativity rather than always being engaged with our phones. So those are eight tips that you could take away to improve your creativity.

Well, that's a lot of value that you got on mutalks today. Heather, thank you so much for being with us and for pushing us on really, really investing in creativity. Now we have. We want to get to know who Professor Lom Holder is. Not just Heather, is actually not just Professor Lom Holder. So we have a few rapid fire questions. Are we ready?

Yeah.

Here we go.

Heather, if you had a pet parrot, what would you teach it to say?

Oh, the pet parrot. Probably something really big. Positive affirmation, like, you're great, or I like your outfit or something.

Oh, I like that. That's a new one. That's a new one. Which is the best ice cream flavor?

Oh, I don't know if this is the best, but at salt and straw, I really love their olive oil ice cream. You. It sounds strange, but they've had. I don't know if they have it right now, but they've had. Yeah. Olive oil ice cream. And it is surprisingly delicious.

So for anybody that does not live in Portland, salt and straw is really something that we know here really well. And salt and straw. If you're listening to this, you can always support us. And we'll send you a list of where you can support emu talks before giving you, like, a shout out on Emmy talks.

Here.

What is your favorite animal to see when you go to the zoo?

I really love the polar bears. I don't know why, but I lived in San Diego. San Diego Zoo had polar bears. It's pretty awesome.

If you could. Would you go to outer space?

No, no, no. That was a firmly grounded here.

Firmly grounded. Elon Musk. You can take your whole thing and just. Oh, wow.

Okay.

So I know you said you thought about studying music or business when you were going to college, but when you were a little girl, what did you want to be?

Well, it's funny that you would say that, because back then I wanted to be an astronaut.

What?

Right. I guess my risk tolerance has gone.

Down.

Very fast, actually. Do you love or hate roller coasters?

Probably more love if I have to pick between the two. Like Space Mountain at Disneyland. Any time of day, I will go there.

No way.

Yes.

Okay.

What are you most looking forward to this summer?

Oh, goodness. Well, I have some trips planned, which I'm very excited about. But yeah, just I think the sunshine. Because we have had a very, very rainy, rainy spring here in Portland. So, yeah, some sunshine sounds good.

Got it. If you could have. And this is the. The last question before we get into the same questions we ask everybody, and I'm excited to actually hear about those. If you could have a superpower, and I know you actually have superpowers because you work in multoma and you teach in business, but if you can have a superpower, what would you be?

I would stop time. I'd be able to stop time. So when I needed more time for anything Like, I'm not prepared for class. That never happens.

Yes, of course not.

Yeah. Stop time, give myself an extra hour, and then time picks back up. That. That would be.

Right. To be creative. Right? That's. You would stop time.

Yes.

And then you would be creative.

Exactly.

And be ready for the rest of your day.

Right?

That is a creative one.

Perfect.

Okay, great.

Well, we're going to end with our three rapid fire questions that we have started asking everyone. Since all of us here in this room, we value education, especially higher education, because that's why we're here. We want to bring our rapid fire back around to education and find out a little bit about you and your educational journey. So will you tell us about a time during your educational journey from childhood through adulthood that was memorable or formative for you?

Yes. And I talked at the beginning of this podcast about my college experience. Going to a small Christian school where the professors really got to know me. I think that was just formative, the fact that they cared and we had small class sizes, and I got to know my professors over four years. That helped me was formative in that it created this desire for me to come back and do the same thing, to come back to a Christian college and to be able to invest in students. So I would say that was probably the formative experience.

Yeah. If you could change one thing about education, what would it be?

So it would be less about facts. If we're just memorizing facts, I don't think we're really helping students because we can find facts on our phones with Google anytime. So what we need to be doing is teaching students to think critically and to communicate well. And that's really, I think what we're trying. And that's what we're trying to do here is to have students who can think critically, because you can always go find. If it's just information, you can find the information. But what do you do with that? That's what we're. We're trying to teach here.

Yeah.

And what is something that you've learned recently or that you're currently learning?

So I'm learning about emotions because I grew up just. I had this faulty thought that I should be like a machine with no emotions. And it was all about, can I be the most productive and get the most done? And emotions of any sort, except maybe joy and happiness, that was a positive, but the emotions would get in the way. And so lately I've been reading books like why Emotions Matter by Tristan and Jonathan Collins, and another book called Emotionally Healthy Spirituality. And really just tapping into the fact that emotions, both bad and good, add a lot of color to life. Um, so we actually were created as human beings, not human doings. And we can like, we can be. And we can be happy and we can be sad and it's all okay. That's something that I am working on.

Great. Thank you.

Well, thank you so much, Heather. This rapid fire was definitely on fire. I loved hearing about this. We heard new things every single time we come together. Thank you for your expertise that you shared with us today about creativity. Definitely a lot of food for thought. If people want to find out more about your program, where should they go?

Go to Multnomah.

Edu and go for what programs are you right?

So we have have seven degrees in the business program, Business administration, Business and org. Psych, Accounting business with the marketing concentration, professional sales, human resources management and supply chain management. So we have seven different offerings here.

And what we could guarantee is that they're very creative.

We do our best accounting. Maybe not so much, but yes, well.

We get creative with that too here. University. Well, thank you again, again, very much for being with us. I really appreciate everything you have to say.

Thanks for having me.

And we will see you all on our next episode. As you know, the views and opinions expressed on MU Talks belong to the guest and the host of MU Talks and do not actually belong to Mono University. Thank you for being with us, Sam.