Breaking Free from Narcissists with Rebecca Zung

Thank you for tuning in to the True Grit and Grace podcast. I'm Amberly Lago, and I'll be sharing inspirational stories of resilience and empowering ideas to elevate your business and your life, ignite your passion, and fuel your purpose. Hey, hey, thank you for tuning in to True Grit and Grace. I'm Amberly, and I'm so glad you're here. I have a returning guest. She is a really good friend of mine who I love dearly. Rebecca Zung is with us. You may know her from YouTube because she is a famous YouTuber. She's one of the top 1% attorneys in the nation. She's been recognized by U.S. News as one of the best lawyers in America. She's recognized globally as the narcissism negotiation expert. And y'all, she's got 35 million views on YouTube. Anytime somebody tells me there's a narcissist in their life, I'm like, you got to go watch Rebecca Zung on YouTube or even watch her Instagram that I binge all the time. She's the creator of Slay. We're going to talk about that. And she's got a brand new book coming out called Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win. She's got so many accolades, y'all. She's been featured in Extra, Forbes, Huffington Post, Newsweek, Time, Dr. Drew, and even the Ed Mylett Show, among many other things. So I can't wait to get into how to negotiate with a narcissist. Rebecca, thank you so much for being here.

It is always such an honor to be with you, Amberly. You're really one of my favorite people on the planet. I feel always so blessed by you and your friendship. I always say I must have done something good.

Oh, I love you, and I can't wait to see you soon. I'm gonna be there at the Grove on October 1st.

On October 1st, you are going to be interviewing me for my live book launch. So anybody who's gonna be in LA, On October 1st, come see us at the Grove in Barnes Noble.

Oh yes, I cannot wait. And so for our listeners who may not know you yet, how did you become this narcissist slayer, I would like to say, and just start talking about narcissism so much from being a lawyer to being this famous YouTuber who everybody goes to when they have a narcissist in their life. How did that all come about?

Well, you know, it's interesting because I used to say it was because I had a narcissistic business partner. But, you know, as I started to write the book, I started to realize that it's actually been a confluence of events from my entire life. I actually was— in the book, I actually start the book by talking about my own experience of being bullied as a kid. And I realized that it's sort of been a thread my entire life. So I actually start the book by talking about my own bullying experience as a kid, and I end the book by actually thanking the bullies and narcissists in my life because of the lessons that they have taught me and realizing that, you know, we learn from these tough lessons in our lives. And I really believe that I have been— everything has led me to this point of starting off as this kid on the playground feeling voiceless, feeling powerless, and saying nothing.

And how old were you when you started getting bullied?

Oh, probably, you know, sometime in elementary school, you know, and I was bullied for being Asian. And I talk about this in the book of how, Kids used to come up to me and hold their eyes back and say, oh, Ching Chong, and make fun of— Oh, my goodness. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was the time in life. I grew up in the '70s and '80s, and it was just that time. And it was really interesting because I think that during that time, there wasn't a whole lot of anti-bullying. There wasn't all that thing, you know, where parents were marching in and talking to the principal or anything like that. I mean, we were latchkey kids. We were kids with, you know, our parents worked.

Yeah.

We came home from school. We watched after-school, you know, shows, reruns of whatever, and we took care of ourselves. And, you know, it just wasn't anything that— it didn't even occur to me to tell my parents that this was going on at all. It just didn't even occur to me. It didn't occur to me to say anything to the bullies. It didn't occur to me to say anything to teachers. It just, it was just something that I took.

I think there's still so much bullying that goes on, but there are a lot of, you know, say there's a Buddha bullying, there's a lot of anti-bullying campaigns. But yeah, I, I was bullied too. And I'll just share a quick story of what I did. I didn't tell my teachers. I didn't tell my mom. I had these 2 boys in particular that would make fun of me every day. They called me— I was really skinny and they would call me Annie Anorexic and Bulimic Girl. And so this is terrible. I can't believe I'm admitting this, but how I stood up for myself is I went home and baked a batch of chocolate chip cookies and put a whole box of chocolate Ex-Lax in the cookies.

Ooh.

And I went to school And I offered them cookies and they ate the cookies and they had to leave school because— and early because their stomachs were upset. But I have to tell you that that's terrible that I did that. But you know what? After that, it was like when you stand up to a bully, they have respect for you. And after that, they became my friends and were nice to me and never messed with me again.

Oh, so much. All because of that. But that is such a good lesson for what I teach now. I mean, because the truth of the matter is that all narcissists, all bullies are more afraid of you than you are of them. And the thing is, they don't want you to stand up to them. I always use the Christmas Story example for anybody who's ever watched that movie. That kid Ralphie was so afraid of the kid with yellow eyes, that bully. He's on his way home from school one day, and he's just so mad About the fact that he didn't get a good grade on that paper that he had written or whatever. And then that kid, that guy taunts him, and he's just so mad. He finally just like hauls off on him and beats him up. And then he ends up like, you know, afraid of him. The bully ends up afraid of him after that. But that's such a good analogy. It's such a great example what you just shared. But, you know, for me—

did you ever stand up to the people who were making fun of you?

No, but it was an interesting, actually, that you say this. And this is actually a story I've never really shared on a podcast before. I've told other friends about this, but I'll tell you this story that I never shared before on a podcast. And that is that I am friends on Facebook with a whole lot of my elementary school friends. And But one of the bullies is— I'm not friends with her, but she's friends on Facebook with another one of my friends. And so when I got to be on Dr. Drew, one of my friends shared it out with a bunch of people and said, look at my friend, she's on Dr. Drew. And one of my bullies actually commented on that. Oh my God. And said, oh my goodness, congratulations, Rebecca. I always knew you would go somewhere or something like that. And I looked at that and I was like, oh my God, really? Oh, wow.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, I was so—

After all these years, oh, I always knew you would go somewhere. And is that why you picked on me and bullied me?

Yeah. I mean, I was so stunned by that. You know, she, she'd never tried to friend me on Facebook or anything like that, and I certainly never did with her. But I mean, here I, you know, she, once I was on Dr. Drew or whatever, and then she goes and comments that, and I thought, wow, you were one of the ones that was like one of the worst. She was like the leader of the pack of the bullies. And here she commented that. And so I just found that really stunning. So I wasn't really sure if she actually believed that or if she was just commenting that because here I was on Dr. Drew all these years later, you know.

But it didn't really matter. And just so she could kind of say that she knew you to make herself look good.

Yeah, exactly. But, you know, it didn't really matter to me at that point because I'm here at this point now.

Like, top lawyer in the world. And all that you're doing and all the programs that you run. And you already have 2 other bestselling books.

Yeah.

Now you're coming out with this one. And I wanted to ask you, what is the question you get the most about narcissism? If somebody— I'm sure you've got people that reach out to you all the time on how to deal with a narcissist, but, well, you know what, we should get down to explaining exactly what a narcissist is in case there's somebody listening that's like, I don't even know what a narcissist is. I don't know what gaslighting is. It's interesting because my daughter who's 15 even knows what gaslighting is.

Oh.

And, but there might be some people who don't. So can you give, what is your definition of a narcissist?

I like to give a, a good layperson's definition because I think that most people, you know, In the book, obviously, I give what the DSM-5 is, but I think a good layperson's definition is the best way to do it. And it is a spectrum. You know, everybody has, like, a little bit of, of this in them. But all the way to the end of the spectrum is a person who feels totally and completely empty inside. They feel like they have no internal sense of value. And so they have to get all of their sense of value from external sources. So that means it's either, you know, the big houses, cars, money, celebrity friends, whatever it is, or it's through devaluing people, debasing people, degrading people, making people feel small by pushing themselves up. So I call it diamond level supply, which is how they look to the world. The, the, you know, the, the big drippings, you know. The things you think of, or what I call coal-level supply, which is pushing other people down to make themselves feel good. So it's those 2 things. And the reason why I separate them is because it's really important to separate them when it comes to leverage. That's how you build your leverage in a negotiation.

Well, I feel like I was in a relationship with somebody who had both of those things, actually. All about how things looked, like lived in a shack but drove the most expensive sports car. It was all about outer appearance and then was constantly pushing others down at the same time.

All narcissists have both sides, and it's because they have this tiny little— they have these 2 sides to their personality. They've got this, this frail little thing inside of them, this scared little person inside of them that they're constantly trying to cover up. And then they've got this mask on the outside that they want everybody to believe that they are. And so the more authentic that you can be, The less of a narcissist that you are. The more that you can match who you are here and who you are here, the less of a narcissist you actually are.

And, and that's— So matching your insides to your outsides, basically.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's really the, the true authentic power. True Authentic power is knowing who you are and standing in that power. And, and just really, it's that power from, from the source.

Mm-hmm.

It's power from the source and knowing that you have true inherent worthiness and, and feeling that inherent worthiness. And once you know that, then the narcissist actually, they don't have power over you. And that's where they get their own power too, is they find people who they can kind of control by looking for those cracks in other people's You know, feeling of worthiness as well. You know, they look for people who have some amount of trauma and brokenness as well. And, and prey on that.

Oh, yeah, I can. I can totally see that. And I wish that I knew how to talk to a narcissist. Like, I didn't even know what that was years ago. When I first got married, um, not to my husband now, but to my ex-husband.

Right.

But do you think that a narcissist can be cured of narcissism?

Not, not easily. Not easily. And I've spoken to a lot of practitioners, a lot of mental health therapists, practitioners, and The reason why is the inherent problem, which is a lack of self-awareness, a lack of, of, you know, most people, in order to get help, they have to want help. They have to admit that there is a problem.

And they do not like to admit that they're the problem at all. So I could see where that would be hard.

Correct. I mean, you know, for them to admit that, it's, it's a survival technique for them. I mean, it's a survival technique. And so, you know, it's almost like they cease to exist without that. I mean, they feel like— and it started early on. as children. And one of the things that I learned in my research for doing this book is that how a narcissist was formed was through trauma as children. When we are presented as humans with traumatic events, with situations, we go into these fight, flight, freeze situations. Our bodies go into stress mode. And when that happens, our bodies, you know, to— in order to start to want to fight, fight or freeze, you know, we emit chemicals, you know, adrenaline and that sort of thing, right? When that happens on a regular basis, it can actually cause damage to the brain, to the limbic system part of the brain. And for a child, when that happens continuously, regularly, then it can cause arrested development in the limbic system part of the brain. And so it, it, it causes what they call narcissistic injury.

Wow.

And so then as they become adults, while other parts of their brain continue to develop, the prefrontal cortex and that sort of thing, That limbic system part of the brain does not. And so when they are presented in adulthood with situations that they think are triggering, you know, and, and where they feel they need to go back into survival mode, and, and it, it doesn't— it's not rational or reasonable to us, but it is to them. So it could be an eye roll, it could be a tone of voice, it could be anything, it could be nothing, but they think it, it's something. Then that limbic system part of the brain becomes activated, and it's like a switch is thrown. I mean, it's literally splitting. They go from black to white, boom. And now that limbic system part of the brain is activated, and that is what you're dealing with. And so when you go to negotiate with them, when you go to have a conversation with them, that's what you're dealing with. And it could cause narcissistic rage or whatever it is, but you're not dealing with rational at that point. You're not dealing with reasonable at that point.

Yes. In dealing with a narcissist, and I have somebody in my life in particular that I can think about, There was no rational communication whatsoever. I mean, no, I could—

and there was nothing. No. And sometimes they don't even necessarily remember what they're doing at that point. And they will take themselves down to take you down. And that's the thing that doesn't even make any sense. They will also lie about things that are readily verifiable. They will lie about things that are— they don't even need to lie about, that, you know, it doesn't even make any sense. And they will say things that don't even make any sense. And that's the thing that— And now looking back, for me as an attorney, I remember because I participated in literally thousands of mediations. And I remember—

You must have dealt with a ton of narcissists going through some big-time divorces.

Big time. And I remember, but I didn't even realize that I was dealing with narcissists at the time. But now looking back, there were times that I would think, why is this person acting like this? Or why is this person doing this? Why is this guy like, Burning his business to the ground just to, you know, get at the wife or whatever. And now it makes sense to me, but it didn't make sense to me at the time. Yeah.

I remember you told a story. So I'm so— I'll forever be grateful for you for speaking at my very first Unstoppable Success Summit. And y'all, she is so generous that she even Came to Dallas where we had an in-person mastermind meetup and she spoke to all the ladies here that I had when I had my mastermind meetup. But you told a story about a guy or a husband and wife. All that was required was an apology that they didn't want to do. Can you tell that story? Because that is like classic narcissism.

Yeah, the $2 million apology.

How much was it?

It's a $2 million apology.

Oh, my goodness. Crazy. So was it the husband that—

Yes. Yeah. So it was the end of a day of a 12-hour mediation, and he was going to have to pay like $15,000 a month in permanent alimony or something like that. And now she was getting a lot of other assets. At the end of the day, we were just getting ready to sign the agreement and the mediator came into the room and everybody was gone. So everything was dark. But the mediator pulls me out into the lobby and says, Rebecca, I need to talk to you about something. And he's like, before we present this to your client, I just want to make sure— I just want to tell you this. He said, she's willing to waive alimony. But this is so unusual. He said, all your client has to do is apologize to her for her— his behavior during the marriage. I'm like, okay, what's the catch? And he's like, no catch. She just wants an apology. She's just that upset about How she treated him. And I'm like, okay. I'm like, all right, I'll make him do it. So I go into my conference room and I'm like, okay, you have to go and apologize to her and then you're off the hook for alimony. Now, over the next several years or whatever it was, it was going to add up to more than $2 million in alimony. And he's like, no, I'm not going to do it. And I was like, um, yeah, you are. And he's like, no, I don't, I don't, I don't want to do it. And I'm like, you got it.

And he didn't do it, right?

Oh no, he did it because he did. Oh, he did eventually do it. But I mean, because I was thinking to myself, he's going to come back at me. He's going to be mad that I didn't make him do it. I'm trying to think all these things. How am I going to come up with what we call in the law biz, what we call a CYA letter, like cover your ass letter? I'm thinking, how quickly can I type up a CYA letter over here? Because I'm thinking, what the hell? So I'm thinking to myself, I'm going to kick your ass. Like, what the hell? Yes, you are going over there.

Oh my goodness. But that just shows that, like, that narcissistic behavior, like never wanting to admit fault, right? Not wanting to make an apology, not wanting to take a look at yourself, but always wanting to point the finger and blame. And I, oh yeah, I just remember that story was like, wow.

Like, yeah. And he wanted to be able to tell the world that he was paying alimony. He was a big man, you know, and he wanted to still have control over her. He wanted to still have some tie to her, you know, because if he signed, that meant like that they were done, right? Because she was waiving alimony, they were dividing the assets, they were done too. And he still wanted to have control over her. There was a lot involved with that.

That's why when I got divorced, I walked away from everything. I ended up Money, assets I had before I even met him. I ended up having to sell my first motorcycle and give him half the money. And I'm like, like, it was crazy. But I was like, okay, whatever, because I want to be done.

I am. Well, and that's what she wanted too, right? You know, so I'm like, get your butt over there and do it. So he, he did it like a, like a dog. It was like 6'5, big guy who was like one of the He owned one of the top development companies in Florida. Big, you know, a lot of money. And, you know, he's like, like a dog with his tail between his legs, like dragging his feet going over there. I can still remember watching him walk over there. I'm like, get your butt over there. And so he went over there and did it.

Wow. Well, you talk a lot about COVID narcissists. What exactly do you mean by that?

Oh, to me, they're the worst ones because they're the ones that Everybody loves. They think they're the, you know, everybody thinks they're so wonderful and so nice and so kind. And they're humanitarians. And they're the first ones that show up when people are at the hospital with the big baskets. And, and, you know, they're just so kind and nice. And many times, they're, they're preachers or doctors.

Really?

And, oh, so wonderful. So kind. Everybody thinks they're wonderful. But, you know, behind closed doors, you know, if, if you are their business partner, you're their spouse, you're their— the person closest to them, they're the ones that are the worst ones.

Mhmm.

Because the things that they do have— there's a lot of plausible deniability. There's a lot of— there's underhanded things that they do. It's very much passive aggression. It's very much That just that those tiny little death by a thousand cuts. It's smiling while they're like, they're killing you at the same time. It's, it's that email, what they let— email chain they left you off of at work.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, you know, oh, I, I thought I had you on there. I'm sorry. I, I was wondering why you weren't at that meeting. I, you know, I, I, oh, and I'm, I just spoke to so-and-so this morning. She called me. I, oh, she didn't call you too? I, I don't know why. You know, just like that. There's little things like that. Constant little things. Oh, that dress is so becoming on your full figure.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's like little tiny jabs.

Yeah.

They just try to knock you down, knock you down.

All the time. It's just constant, constant. You just always sort of feel like crap when you're around them. My daughter, you know, dated this guy and, and one of the comments that he made was, oh my God, our kids are gonna have the best of both worlds. They're gonna have my brains and your work ethic.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Like little— yeah. I feel like sometimes the COVID narcissist, like, will say things and it's that type of, uh, situation where you, they comment or something or say something to you and it hits you a little later. Like, what the heck was that? Like, you wonder, why do I feel like crap right now? And it's because They have said things that were not very nice and they might be smiling. So it's giving you these mixed signals like, well, I think they're trying to be nice to me, or I think that was a compliment, or, but it's just constant little jabs.

And right. And, and like, I know, like for me with like my business partner, I was just like supposed to be doing things. A lot of times they're lazy, you know, like they don't, They're just— they say they're gonna do things and then they just don't do them. And then you end up doing the lion's share of the work, and then they take credit for your work. And then a lot of times it's, you know, I know for me it was like a money thing, you know. Oh, I didn't know how to deposit the money in the bank account, so I just had to put it in my bank account. But I just need to talk to my accountant.

Mm-hmm.

And figure out how to transfer it in, and then they just never do. And it's like, well, what are we doing with that? And then you end up having to go after them. But yet it's like, but everybody thinks they're so nice. They're so nice. They're so nice. It's just constant little things. What was the name of your book again? I can never remember.

Yeah, just to constantly Knock you down, basically.

Yeah.

I had recently a narcissist, covert narcissist like that in my life. And I found the best way for me to deal with it was to just stop communication, not go to their level and keep, because they, it's almost like they want to bait you to, to, to, you know, keep going, keep fighting, keep arguing.

Yeah.

And they gaslight you to make you think you're crazy as well. But you have come up with this whole program. You actually have webinars and share so much on how to slay that narcissist. So can you take us quickly through like some tips on what does slay stand for and how can we use that if we have a narcissist in our life? To either set a boundary or to be able, if they, if they have to be in our life, how do we, you know, communicate with them so we can protect ourselves? So what can you just share with the audience? What does SLAY stand for?

Yes. So, um, and thank you. So SLAY is strategy, leverage, anticipate, and then Y is you. And so strategy is the very first thing that you have to do, which is creating a super strong strategy, which is your vision. Where are you going? Where do you want to be? And so many times, I think when you are dealing with a narcissist, you're on the offensive. You're thinking where— a lot of times what I ask people, they think, I just want it to stop. I just want their lies to be shut down, things like that. But those are all defensive things. I want you to think about where do you want to go? You know, like when you're thinking about a trip, you, you think, I want to drive from Dallas to Houston, right? So you go, you put that in your GPS. I'm going to Houston. So that, that's what you want in your life, right? Where do you want to go? And you want You want it to be specific. What is the outcome that you want and by when? And so you need to have that first because if you can't visualize what you want, then you can never get there. And then you create the action steps. And in my program, I also help you figure out what kind of narcissist that you're dealing with because each one is a little bit different in how they negotiate as well.

Mm-hmm.

Is it covert? Is it Is it grandiose or is it malignant? Because each one is, um, different.

And then— How quickly, how do you negotiate with a covert narcissist?

So the COVID narcissist is more likely to line up the flying monkeys, their army of people. So what a covert narcissist will do is they couch their They're smearing in terms of care. So what they'll do is they'll say something like, I'm just so concerned about Susie's drinking. I'm just so nervous. I'm so, you know, she's just drinking so much. And, you know, I just am so worried about her.

Mm.

You know, I mean, you know, and they'll do that, like, 6 months maybe before the marriage is over or something like that. They'll start seeding it.

Yeah.

And then, you know, or maybe it's, you know, Tim's drinking or whatever. And then they'll say, you know, I'm so worried about Tim's drinking. He just had so much to drink last night. And, you know, I'm just worried. I'm just worried. I think he's just stressed. And then, like, then they get a divorce, and it's like, well, Tim's an alcoholic. Well, you know, can you testify on behalf of, you know, of me? Because obviously Tim shouldn't have the children. You know, I've been telling you that he's had trouble with drinking, you know.

Mm-hmm.

And Tim probably doesn't have any problem with drinking, but they just sort of started seeding this all along. Yeah, people, and they couch it in terms of care and make it seem like they're just so caring and wonderful like that. So that's how covert narcissists make it seem like they're so caring and how they smear people.

Yeah, so they smear people. I think the Best thing that I, I always say, there's that saying, be so good that even if somebody said something bad about you, nobody would believe it. When I had this covert narcissist in my life, I had a friend go, well, what are you going to do? She's probably going to— this can't be good for your business. She's probably— basically, she was like, she's probably going to go start a smear campaign or something. And I said, you know what, I'm just going to keep my side of the street clean. I'm going to be a good person, add value wherever I go, and I'm not in control of whatever that person says. And I'm not going to invest any energy, time, or effort in what they're doing. I'm letting it go. That's freedom to me when you just, you know, you just keep being a good person and Whatever that person might do or say, other people won't even believe it because they're like, no way. That doesn't sound like Amberly. I can't imagine Amberly doing something. That's not what I've heard about her coaching or, you know, whatever it may be. But I mean—

I always say, never, never defend yourself. Never defend yourself because as soon as you defend yourself, you're giving them credence. You know, just never. I say never explain, justify, or overshare. I mean, when you have to have a conversation with them, you can have a conversation with them. But, you know, I always say, you know, just the facts and don't allow yourself to be triggered. Don't allow yourself to get emotional because I always say they go fishing.

Oh, yeah. For sure. They try to hook you and reel you in. Yep.

Right. And as soon as you allow yourself to be triggered, which is the A in SLAY, by the way, anticipate that they're going to try to bait you and bring you in. And as soon as that happens, then you're in.

The S was strategy, right? Yeah. The L is what?

Leverage. So that's where we go into those 2 different forms of supply. And you want to figure out what is the most important form of diamond level supply to them. There's always something that is the most important form of diamond level supply to them. So whether it's their new girlfriend, the Their employees, their the judge. Who is it that means the most to them that they're never going to want to be exposed to? People of the world, you know who it who is that? Because you want to threaten a form of supply that's more important for them to keep than the supply that they get from jerking you around. And and that's how you build your leverage because that that diamond level supply is going to in. how you build out your leverage. And that's how you do it. I mean, and so you use your documentation to build your case. And your documentation is going to be your correspondence, your texts, your emails, your witnesses, your pictures, your social media, whatever it is. You build it all together and you start to figure out what the patterns are. And you can actually, you can actually have summaries. You can have summaries of lies and inconsistent statements. You can have summaries of, of what witnesses are saying or, or whatever. But you can literally say, hey, on, you know, August 12th, they said this. And on September 15th, they said this. And you can literally match that up. And say, listen, here are all their lies or whatever it is. And this is the way that you build a potential case of leverage against them. So that's that. And then you've got you, which is the why. And that is you on the offensive and your mindset. And 100% of winning is your mindset. And you have to believe that you can win. If you don't believe that you can win, nobody can help you. You know, you don't sit there and say, all I need is a good lawyer. You don't sit there and say, I just need this, I just need that, whatever. All of that is giving away your power. I mean, you have to believe that you can win. I mean, yes, you know, you might need this player or that player or whatever to help you, but you have to believe that you can win, period.

Mm-hmm.

That's it. And then you have to stay on the offensive because if you're not on the offensive, they will take you down. They will. But you can win using this method. It works every time. You know what I'm teaching? I've literally sold thousands of my program. Literally thousands at this point. And I've taught, you know, I have over 40 million views on my YouTube channel at this point. So, I mean, what I teach is not theory. This is not theory at this point. It's not like I've sold a couple hundred of these programs or whatever. Literally thousands. I have thousands of testimonials. It works.

It works. Well, how can somebody get your program? What's the best way for them to do that?

So the program, you can go to slayyournegotiation.com. I'm actually having a book launch on September 30th. You can go to slayyourbullylaunch.com. You can get the book at slaythebullybook.com. So slaythebullylaunch.com is the launch. I'm so excited for this. So come join us for the launch. We're going to have so many giveaways. If you bring 5 friends to the launch, you're gonna get 2 unpublished chapters of the book. So I'm so excited for this. We are starting a Slay Nation. We want you to break free. We want you to start a new beginning. We want you to start a new future. We want everyone to have access to this information. This is so, so, so important. And I want you to have the life that you deserve.

I'm so excited for this book. I can't wait to see you at the Grove.

Can't wait to see you.

Yeah, I'm flying in, I think, the day or two before. And yes, I wouldn't miss it for the world. So fly in, or if you're in the LA area, it's going to be at the Grove.

Come see us.

Yeah, it's at 2 PM, right? 2 PM. Okay. And then the, the pre-launch, how can people find out? Can you tell us one more time, how can people get involved with that pre-launch and also get the book and also come to your book signing? Will it— can— so go ahead and give everybody that information one more time. I want to make sure that they hear it.

Okay. So the book Slay the Bully. Slay the— you can either go to slaythebully.com or slaythebullybook.com to get the actual book. Then the launch is slaythebullylaunch.com. And if you invite 5 friends, you get 2 free chapters of the book. If you invite 25 friends, you get a signed copy of the book. And then I think there's even more, a whole bunch more prizes after that. And if you come live, we're giving away more free stuff. And then on October 1st in LA, you and me, girl. I know.

We're going to be in the Grove. We're going to have fun. I can't wait to see you.

At the Grove? Yes. Oh my God. So much fun.

It's going to be great. Well, thank you for coming on the show again and, and just explaining, giving us some clarity, some strategies on what we can do to break free of these narcissists. in our life. I love you so much. The, the information will be in the show notes, so y'all can find that if you're out for a run or, or you're driving. Don't worry, you can go to the show notes and find all the information. And I hope to see y'all when, um, I'm at Rebecca's book signing in LA on October 1st. So love you, girl. Thank you so much.

You— thank you. You're the best.

Thank you. And y'all, thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll see you next week.