Do What You Were Born to Do with Ken Coleman

Thank you for tuning in to the True Grit and Grace podcast. I'm Amberly Lago, and I'll be sharing inspirational stories of resilience and empowering ideas to elevate your business and your life, ignite your passion, and fuel your purpose. Hey there, welcome to another episode of True Grit and Grace. I have such an amazing treat for y'all today. Ken Coleman is here with us today. He's a bestselling author of 2 books, actually. I have one of those books right here, From Paycheck to Purpose, and also the book The Proximity Principle. And he is the host of the nationally syndicated radio show, The Ken Coleman Show. Y'all, he's a big deal, and he is with us here today as America's career coach. He helps callers discover what they do best so they can do the work that they love and produce the real results that matter the most. And so I'm really excited to talk with him about everything from purpose to leadership to how to build better connections to not getting burnout, because I know a lot of entrepreneurs, they get burnout. So Ken, thank you so much for being here. I've been excited to have you on the show.

Amberly, thank you for having me.

Oh my goodness. Well, like I was saying before we started recording, I love binging on all your Instagram Reels actually, because you give short— yeah, you're amazing. You give short nuggets that are so good from everything from leadership to self-development to just how to be a better person. And so I'm curious, before we get started into delivering all this wisdom that you have, how did you get into being the leader that you are? And not only the leader that you are, but you help and empower other leaders to be better leaders. How did you get into that role?

Well, I had an opportunity to join John Maxwell's team in Atlanta, Georgia back in 2003. I was in the Nashville area and was recruited to an opportunity with John's team, and I took it. I just felt like it was something that I had to do. John Maxwell is a well-known leadership guru, world-class speaker, and You know, author. And I thought, you know what, this is going to be a good experience to be around somebody who's training leaders. And I was trying to develop my business resume at the time, so it felt like a no-brainer. And so, in spending time with John, traveling with John around his content and the leadership events that we did, I began to get opportunities to be on stage as an interviewer and as a host and some speaking.

And I—

I have always been a student of history, and I've always been a participator and a lover of sports. And so, leadership was like this wonderful glue for me that brought these 2 loves of mine together. I love history. I love sports. And so, you can't love either one of those things and not be exposed to the great leaders, great women and great men who've led and competed and coached and all these things. So, I found that I really loved the topic, if you will, of leadership, the pressure that that very word represents to lead others. And so, that's how I got involved in that leadership space, just working around it. And then, I came to work for Dave Ramsey and Dave Ramsey is one of the greatest leaders I've ever met. and certainly work for. When you're talking about a broadcasting icon, a Hall of Famer like he is, but he also is the day-to-day CEO of our company. You know, we're north of $350 million of revenue, 1,100 employees. And so, I've been able to have a shotgun seat, if you will.

Yeah.

To see great leaders lead, to speak to leaders. And now through EntreLeadership, the leadership brand at Ramsey Solutions, I get to speak to leaders. Because I have a unique vantage point in that I've talked to over 5,000 men and women live on the air who want to leave companies. And you mentioned Instagram, they just put out a reel, I guess yesterday, of a speech excerpt where I say in this reel, people don't leave leaders, they leave companies.

Can I say it?

Yeah.

Because I see it.

There you go.

Love your people. People leave leaders, not companies. That was powerful.

That's exactly right.

That, that reel was powerful. And that's why I was like, oh, it's so true. And you know what? I am actually speaking at an event in January with John Maxwell.

Oh, great.

So I get to share the stage with John Maxwell.

You got to tell them, you got to tell them Ken Coleman said hi.

I will. Well, you should come hang out with us.

Where is it?

It is in Atlanta, Georgia.

Well, you know, you know what?

Why don't you should come be my guest?

Well, I'll have to see what the calendar says about all of that. You know?

Yes, I know you're very busy. You're very busy.

That's going to be fun. Is it his event?

No, it's not his event. It's an event called Create. And it's got Ken Joslin is putting this event on.

I know Ken. Tell Ken I said hello.

Oh yeah, I will. But it's like he's got, uh, Ed Mylett, John Maxwell, Randy Garn, Gary Brecka. Um, and I was the only female speaker and I was like, Ken, you gotta add some more female speakers into the mix. And so he has, he's, he has sent, I think he's added like a couple of more female speakers and I'm actually impressed. He's put me on like the, you know, advertisement, the big reels and everything for it because it was all men.

Yeah.

And, but, but yeah, it's the first time I'll ever get to meet or be in the proximity of John Maxwell. And that's something that you talk a lot about is proximity. And there's, Also, one thing that you say, like, you're, let me see if I word it right. You say your resume is worthless unless you have relationships. Did I word that right? Something like that?

Yeah, I say that resumes are worthless without a relationship.

Oh, okay. So I got that right. I was remembering on something that you said.

Got it right.

And I just don't know if people understand How much there is power in proximity. And people ask me all the time, Ken, they ask me all the time, how are you getting on these stages? How are you booking these events? It's proximity is power. It's relationships. It's these relationships that I've built. So can you talk to us a little bit about, okay, well, what does that mean? And how do they build upon it?

So, the proximity principle, it was a principle that I came up with, interestingly enough, as I looked back on my journey and working with John Maxwell was a part of that story as to how I got into broadcasting at 33 and stayed in it for 7 years and got the dream job at 40, which doesn't happen very often, relatively old to get into that business. What the proximity principle is, is, uh, it's a statement, as all principles are, that I, that I just laid out. And it says this: in order to do what you want to do, you've got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. So I'll say it again. It's very simple but profound. In order to do what you want to do, fill in the blank, you got to be around people who are doing that and in places where that work is happening. And so, this came to me one day.

I was on my way into the office. Yes, that is powerful. Like, that is— it seems so simple to say, but that is where the magic happens. That is so awesome.

So, here you go. So, I'll give you even a simpler formula. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. That's the only math problem you need to ever worry about. The right people plus the right places equals opportunity. You know, you show me a person who says, I can't catch a break, and I can tell you right now that they aren't around the right people and they aren't in the right places. Because when I'm around the right people, watch what happens. I learn, I get knowledge by observing or by asking questions, which I'm a professional question asker. And then I also get the opportunity for wisdom. See, knowledge is I need some facts. Wisdom is I need some advice. And so when I'm around the right people, I get an opportunity for knowledge and wisdom. And then the third piece is I get an opportunity for more connection because when I'm around the right people, they tell me about more people who are the right people that I need to be around. And then they also tell me about places I need to be in. So then I get over in these places. And would you believe that when we get in the right places, we meet more of the right people? And so, what happens is this becomes a habitual cycle of connection.

Mm-hmm.

And so, when people have the discipline and the courage to put themselves out there and just show up and listen and learn and rinse and repeat, you won't believe how opportunities will come to you. Sometimes right in the moment, but many times years later. And I've got some incredible stories of how I used the proximity principle long before I even defined it and came up with the principle. And I saw years later because I did the right thing, I put myself in the right place around the right people and I helped and I served.

Okay, wait, wait. That's key what you just said just there.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

You got to help and serve.

Because you helped and you served.

That's right.

I think that's the key. So yeah, it's great. You get in the right rooms, people go to conferences, they go to conventions, summits, gatherings, networking events. But you said the magic right there. You serve, you add value. That's how you really build relationships. And it's, I think, in for the long game, like for me, it's been with no expectation. Like I just want to really see how I can serve, how I can be there. How I can add value. And then lo and behold, who knows who's holding the treasure map to the treasure chest of where you need to be and who can connect you.

One thing I want to point out, because you're right, but I know there are people that are listening to us right now. And when you said, I've got to serve, I've got to add value, some of you want to connect with men and women right now that you correctly assess You go, I actually, there's nothing that I can do to serve them. I can't think of anything where I can serve them. And sometimes that's true, but I want to focus in on what Amberly said, the other phrase, and it's add value. This is very intimidating for a lot of people. And if I can, I want to take all that away because when you can't find a way to actually serve a person that you want to connect with in a tangible way, you can still add value to them. And here's how you do it. Make them feel valuable. And the way you make them feel valuable is by saying, I want your time, small amount of time. I've got very specific questions that I need to ask you because I believe you can add knowledge and wisdom to my toolbox. I admire you and I really want to pick your brain. Now, let me just tell you something.

I got goosebumps with that, by the way.

Okay, good.

Make them feel valuable.

That's the value.

Boom.

So, we always hear add value and we think, I've got to do something for someone. You don't have to do anything for somebody to make them feel valued. If you just, you show up with a humility and an admiration to learn from them. Let me just tell you something. I don't care how many bestselling books you have or how big your audience is or how many freaking followers you have. When someone approaches me that way, I'm here to tell you, I feel valuable because they're saying, I admire you and I believe you can help me. Will you help me?

Mm-hmm.

That's an attractive question. It's the most underutilized question in the world. Will you help me? But I'm going to tell you something, and Amberly, I'm going to speak for you. You correct me if I'm wrong, but on behalf of all successful people, we want to help other people be successful. The water's really nice over here. Come on in.

Mm-hmm.

And so, understand this, with people that you want to get to that you feel like are ahead of you or higher up the food chain, first of all, that's crap because they put on their pants the same way you do. But the reality is, is that you can add value to them by making them feel valuable. And that is making the most of your time with them. And they see that hunger and that humility. They want to reward that. And then, that's the reward for them when they walk away. They say, you know what? That Coleman kid. He's, he's sharp. He cares. That was good. I, I, I, he, he, I enjoyed that interaction with Ken.

That's so, it's so true. And I hope everyone hears that message like loud and clear because even in my mastermind, I offer a scholarship and I really look at who's applying for that scholarship and who I accept for that scholarship is someone who is supportive and humility and kindness and generosity, and they're a good person. But yeah, because you're right, I, I want to help everyone. I want to help everyone. But you have to narrow in on the people who are really like exactly what you said. That is amazing. Well, how do you— you talk a lot about When you're trying to build your career or even shift what you're doing in your business, how you can increase your influence to do that. So what would you suggest to someone who's starting out? Let's just say, for instance, they're starting out, they are ready to do something completely different. They've stepped away from the corporate job and they are ready to break into doing their own thing. They're going to be their own boss. their own person, and now they're going to have to build their personal brand and they need help to build their influence. What would you suggest they do?

Yeah, well, 2 things. You need to be uniquely you, and then you need to only worry about influencing the people right in front of you. So I want to break those 2 things down. First, your greatness is only achieved through your uniqueness. And I feel we have so many people, and our hearts are in the right place, they want to do great things. I mean, I'm all for people doing great things, but we tend to focus on the greatness part. And we go, I want to be great, great, great, great, great. I want to do great things. I want to have a great business, blah, blah, blah. I want to create a great— and that's all fine, except that I think it's an empty pursuit. I don't think you can achieve greatness absent of your uniqueness. We are all uniquely and wonderfully made. I believe that at my core. And so, we all may have some things in common, but the combination of our talents, what we are good at, our passions, the things that light our— when we do this type of work or a task, it Lights us up. We got the juice, as I say on the Ken Coleman Show. And then what—

Oh, I love your show, by the way. It's amazing.

Thank you.

Okay.

We've all got these common elements, but the combination of them is what makes Amberly uniquely Amberly. It's what makes me uniquely me, that combination. We may have a lot in common. I know we do. But it is that combination is what makes us unique, not to mention our experience, I mean, your audience knows your journey so very well. Let me just tell you something. That shocking tragedy that you went through has shaped you in a way that it can't— I can't touch people and connect to people and reach certain people that you can due to the uniqueness of your entire journey. So, when we understand that we are in fact unique and we actually embrace that, the good, the bad, the ugly. All right, that means embrace our talents but embrace our weaknesses. Embrace the things that light us up, our passions, but also embrace the stuff that sucks the life out of us. Embrace what motivates us and then what demotivates us. When we really understand who we are and how we tick, now we're on to something, because it is then that our heart and our head are in alignment and we're fully engaged And that's where we make our unique contribution. We say, this is my unique combination of talent, passion, mission, plus environment, plus experience. And I put all of it together and what comes out of it is I am uniquely set up to make a unique contribution. I'm solving a problem through this solution and I'm going to do it my unique way. Now, that's the first part of that formula, okay? Because what happens is, is now we're not trying to be somebody else. Because let me tell you something, if you're trying to be a version of what your mom and daddy wanted you to be, watch out. Or you're trying to be a version of some influencer you see on Instagram or whatever else, you try to do that, I got news for you. You might be good, but you will not be great.

Mm-hmm.

Because you are holding back that unique combination. Of what your contribution can be and should be and must be. Okay? So, that's the first thing. The second part of that was, is once I am really clear on my uniqueness and I know what problem I'm trying to solve and the solution I'm going after to help solve that problem, I now need to put the numbers away for a moment and go, forget about scoreboard and great numbers and great impact. Remember, back to uniqueness. So, what I'm going to do is, as an entrepreneur specifically, I'm going to test that problem. I'm going to test that solution. I'm going to learn from that. I'm going to try to help one person and then help another person and help another person. In other words, I'm going to start small and grow slow for the purposes of really getting good. You talk about a masterclass. Let me tell you something. I've had the privilege to watch master craftsmen, furniture makers, blacksmiths, silversmiths, glassblowers. I go watch all these things because— These are true craftspeople, men and women who are craftsmen. And I'm going to tell you something, the amount of scars and burns and broken fingers and missing fingers and furniture laying over in the corner or whatever is a testament to the fact that they have put in a lot of time learning how to do their craft and to do it well.

Wow.

And so, I would just— those are my 2 points just to kind of put it out there. If you can embrace your uniqueness and figure out that unique way to do that business or that unique contribution that you're supposed to make, and then you go, you know what? I'm going to be patient in the early days to grow slow— excuse me, to start small and grow slow because that's where you have the opportunity to truly make the greatest impact. Uniqueness. And patience. And we don't talk enough about those 2 elements.

Well, yeah, I think now everybody wants like instant gratification and we're conditioned for that, right? Like with TikTok and Instagram and I don't know, Amazon, you get it the next day or the same day. It's instant gratification. And I think that if we can learn to have delayed gratification and trust the process and know that it does take time and take work. And I think it's hard for people a lot of times now too, when they're looking on social media and it looks like, oh, I just wrote a New York Times bestselling book and people don't see the 2 years that it took to write the book or the year of the publishing process.

Well, here's one for you. Here's Here's the other side of that. The first time I got the notice that The Proximity Principle debuted number 1, I gotta tell you, it was a euphoric moment. Called my wife, we had a sweet moment of tears and just thankfulness for the journey and everything. But about 30 minutes later, after I got through all the initial emails and phone calls and texts, I was sitting in my hotel room in Portland, Oregon on the last day of the book tour. And I was sitting there and I went, looked around the room, it was just me. Greatest professional moment in my life had just been revealed to me. And then I went, hmm, still got 3 kids. Still got a lot of work to do. My life had not changed at all.

Hadn't changed. I totally feel you on that because I remember when my book came out and it debuted on the Today Show and it hit bestseller in 3 categories right after the Today Show. I will never forget this. I went to brunch with my publicist and we're sitting at brunch in some beautiful place in New York City. And I'm thinking, I did it. Like I got my book out there and it, holy cow, it's a bestseller in 3 categories. And she goes, okay, you need to start on your next book. And I was like, my next book? Like, what are you kidding? The book just came out today. It's a bestseller.

Right.

It was on the Today Show. And I was like, oh, wow. Like, it's just, just a thing. And it, it really shifts you in perspective, like what's important. But also here it is, like 4 years later, and I have not written my second book. It's 4 years later.

Yeah. But you know what, what all transpired, what developed from all of that?

Oh my God, my life Everything like I can now. Ken, can I just tell you, we just moved into this house, this new house of ours, um, like 5 weeks ago. And I, for the first time, had the time to sit down outside in these little single hammocks with my— I'd been moving furniture and my, my youngest daughter was like, Mama, come sit down with me out here. And I sat down. And I looked at our house and I just, I I had this overwhelming sense of gratitude and I just started crying because I thought, you know, 6 years ago we were $2.5 million worth of debt. We had a lien on our house and I was able to completely reinvent myself, get a new job, hustle, work my ass off, by the way.

Yeah.

And now I'm able to provide for my family in a way that I was able to buy a new house for my family.

That's awesome.

You know, and so it just, it, it fills my heart. So I think that's one of the reasons I love so much about what you share about purpose and about leadership, um, and being connected to what you do and loving what you do and being authentic because, um, being authentic was the gateway to me Yeah. Really transpiring, really going forward on my journey was when I got completely authentic with, well, this is me. This is who I am. I ain't perfect and I'm far from it, but this is where I'm going.

Well, see that? I think that illustrates what I'm saying, that our greatness lies within our uniqueness. And when you just said, you know what, I'm ripping the bandaid off, baby. This is Amberly. What you see is what you get. This is my life. This is the— this is what I've learned from it. This is what I want to help you with. There's something so refreshing and empowering in that. So good for you. And that's exactly my point. There's only one you, and there are a lot of people that you're reaching that no one else can reach. So I'm glad you're the only freaking woman on that stage. I'd like to see more women. I'm a girl I'd like to see more women on stage, but the fact is, is I like the fact that you're the only woman up there because you're going to go rip it and you're going to get a lot of attention from men who'd never even give you the time of day. And I think that that's, again, this is the unique time in history and the unique audience that you are able to touch. And that's the driving message for people. We live in a world where we compare ourselves to everybody and everything. And the world doesn't need any more knockoffs. It needs authenticity. It's attractive and it's empowering.

I agree. There's so many people that just want to try to be like everyone else. And that's one thing that I love that my daughter is like— she— well, my youngest daughter, my oldest daughter isn't even on social media at all. She's like in the books at Yale in medical school. But my youngest daughter is like, She's like going to be herself. But one thing that I think that is hard for daughters, for young people, for everyone really, is the inner critic or, um, these excuses that we might come up with or things that we might come against. And in your book, From Paycheck to Purpose, you have a chapter about talking about the enemies of progress. Can you touch on that a little bit? Because I know we all want to have progress and then we have these enemies of progress. Can you talk about what that is and how we can move past that?

Yeah. So I'll break them down real quick. If you want to dive deep on any of them, we'll do it. But the 3 main enemies are fear, doubt, and pride. Fear, doubt, and pride. Now I got to tell you, they're different, but these are all very negative voices and they're They will just show up for anybody who's trying to make progress.

I got them all.

I got them all. Well, by the way, let's also say this. For everybody who's listening to this, you go, oh, I'm dealing with that. That's good news because fear, doubt, and pride only show up for people who are trying to make progress. For the people who are sitting on the bleachers at life, elbow deep in the popcorn, watching everybody else play, there's no fear, doubt, and pride because they're not playing. They're sitting there spectating. Fear is the voice that says, I'm afraid that something bad is going to happen. Doubt is the voice that says, I don't believe something good can happen. And pride is the voice that says, I'm worried about what everybody else is going to think and say.

Oh yeah.

Okay? So, that's high level. So, we see the fears, the real big fears are the fear of the unknown. Oh, I think this is the biggest one. This paralyzes more men and women and keeps them on the sidelines of life than any other fear. The fear of the unknown. I'm scared of change. I'm scared of what I do not know. And so when we're driving a car and we come into dense fog that you can't, you know, you can't even see past the hood of your car, you immediately hit the brakes. You're slowing down. You're pulling off the side of the road. That's what the fear of the unknown does. It just stops us in our tracks.

Mm-hmm.

Fear of rejection. Ooh, this goes back to elementary school when you write notes. Do you like me? Yes, no, or maybe? And you're just on all nerves waiting for that check mark to come back.

You know what I'm saying?

It's like, oh, that's rejection, right?

Yeah.

It's the fear of rejection, being told no. Then you look at doubt. This is the, I don't believe I have what it takes, or I don't believe anybody's going to help me or give me a shot. And then pride is the, specifically it's like, I don't want to ask for help. I don't want to look like I'm a loser. Or like, I can't do anything for myself. And boy, that holds so many people back. As I said earlier in the conversation, this is the voice that keeps us from saying, will you help me? It's quite attractive when you do it the right posture. So, we write extensively, as you know, and I didn't want to spend all this time just unpacking each one, but those are the voices. And so, what I write about in the book, as you know, is I think there's a process by which I learned Where I had to put those voices on trial. And I love a good courtroom drama, so I went to A Few Good Men and I'm thinking, all right, I'm Tom Cruise and I got to put that voice up on the witness stand and thunder away at it because fear and doubt do at times protect us. Most of the time they hold us back. Okay? So, if somebody comes in and says, hey Ken, you want to go out and shoot hoops? And do you think you can dunk a basketball? And I say, yeah, sure. And then the moment comes where I got to try to dunk a basketball and I start to doubt that I can jump high enough. Well, that is protecting me from looking like an idiot because I cannot jump. So, you know, when I get up close to a ledge overlooking a cliff or something and my body starts to react in fear, it says, whoa, back up. You could fall and die. Fear is protecting me there, obviously. But outside of those very obvious protectionary responses, most of the time fear, doubt, and pride are lying to us. And so we have to take that voice very specific. And so I mentioned a couple very specific fears. You've got to ask yourself— I have callers, you've heard me, they'll call in and they're— and I know they're afraid of something. I make them tell me on the air live, what are you afraid of? Be very specific. And they tell me, and then I say, all right, let's put that thing on the witness stand. And what has to be true for this fear to come to fruition?

Hmm.

And so then they, they really, they're like, oh, this is a really long shot. I'd have to be a lazy bum and an idiot and be disrespectful and blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And so what happens when we put that, that lie on the witness stand and we question it and get it out of our head and we write it down? Psychology says a lot of studies that show the power of getting a thought out of a head and writing it down. And so when we can test it and go, is this true? Let's put it on the trial for ourselves and then go to good people in our lives who are truth tellers who'll say, Ken, dude, you're thinking too much. You're fine. It's just insecurity, man. You're good. Yeah, do it.

That really does help to have somebody to talk to because I mean, I can get in my own head. Oh my gosh. Goodness. I can—

I'm the worst.

Ooh, I can get in my own head. And especially like, I just spoke at a big event and it was all these billionaire successful women like Jamie Kern Lima and Candy Valentino. It was all billionaire women. And then me, and I'm like, but I'm not a billionaire yet.

Right.

But I had to keep telling myself yet I will be someday. And I'm here for a reason, but I have learned. To talk to myself instead of listen to myself, because I will just tell myself the worst things, you know? And so what do you tell somebody who is in that cycle of fear or doubt, or they're in their pride or they're in their ego? Like, how, what do you tell them to go snap out of it?

Like, well, first thing we do is, is, is we go back to that process. Is fear holding me back? And most of the time it is, is doubt holding me back? It's not protecting me, it's holding me back. So we go, oh, this is a garbage voice. So William James, the father of modern psychology, once famously said, no matter how absurd something is, if we repeat it often enough, people will believe it. We've seen that through time. We've seen that through religious leaders and cults brainwash people. We've seen it through dictators and horrible leaders brainwash The masses, no matter how absurd something is, if it is repeated often enough, people will believe it. Well, what is true of people is true of our own thoughts.

Hmm.

And so, if that thought keeps skating around in your head right before you go out and speak, well, I'm not a billionaire. I don't have a big business success story like Jamie Kern Lima and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I don't know that I belong here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What happens is, is that stays in your mind. It's okay for that thought to be there. It is not okay for us to allow it to stay. But if you were to stay with that thought, you would believe that.

Oh shoot. I wasn't going to stay with that. I prayed and I did some pushups and I got out there and I gave my talk.

So here's what I would say. I would go, but if I'm talking to that person and we'll use you as an example because your audience knows you well. So they're presenting doubt to me and all this kind of stuff. And I'd sit there and I go, okay, great. What are you doubtful of? Well, I'm not as powerful as this person, or I don't have this stuff.

Yeah.

I go, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I know a little bit about your journey, Amberly. I'm going to tell you right now, you're one of the toughest mental cookies I've ever had the privilege to talk to, just knowing your injury. That's no joke. That is, we're talking half of a percent of people can come through an experience like you did and turn it into an unbelievable story and a situation. You talk about life handing you lemons and you went, Hold my beer, I'm gonna make some lemonade. You did. And so that's unique. And so I would look at you backstage and I'd go, yeah, you don't have all that story, but you know what? There's plenty of those people doing unbelievable stories and having a business pop and just go nuts. But there's a very small amount of people in this room. In fact, you're the only one who could probably talk about physical tragedy and what it did to you mentally and emotionally. How it affected your loved ones, the deepest, darkest thoughts that you faced. What did you learn about yourself? What can we learn? Because we're going through stuff over here that may not be like you went through, a horrific physical injury, but I'm going through something over here. And when you can talk about coming out of a storm, nobody in this room, on this stage, can deliver that message. And there's plenty of people giving business ideas, but you need to speak to people's hearts. Because that's the story you've got to share. And your story is all about heart.

Can I just hang out with you all day?

If you come to Nashville, man.

You know what? I am going to be going to Nashville not long.

Come on. Come on.

I'm serious. So do you know Brian Covey?

Uh, I know the name.

Oh, he is amazing. He lives in Nashville. I'm sure I'll have to connect y'all. He's amazing. We just spoke at an event together. A couple of weeks ago, and then my friend AJ and Rory Vaden live in there.

Oh, I know both of them. I know Rory well.

You know them?

Yeah, of course. He's here all the time. You got to come up and hang out and watch the show, and and we'll we'll have a conversation.

Oh, heck yeah! I want to. I could interview you live. I'll be the loudest person in the audience cheering you on. But yeah, I'm supposed to be going up there to hang out with Rory and AJ and my friend Brian. Covey and a few other people. There's a lot of people that I live—

Well, we're, uh, our offices and studios are in the lobby. We're right around the corner from them. So come see us.

Oh, I'd love that. One thing I was going to say, and I know we're almost out of time, but I just had a couple more questions. One thing that I love about your book is that you give chapter takeaways.

Oh, thank you.

I am big on that. Like I, I love chapter takeaways where you can just go, okay, I'm going to highlight this.

It's the old preacher formula. Tell them what you're going to tell them. Tell them, tell them what you told them.

Oh, there you go. Look at that.

You've never heard that one before, have you?

Uh-uh. I love it.

Yeah. That's, by the way, a good formula for somebody who's learning how to speak. Tell the audience what you're going to tell them, then tell them, and then tell them what you told them.

Actually, yeah, actually when I first started speaking, I went to a speaker coach and that's what she actually shared with me.

Oh, that's funny. Yeah.

But I do love that you give the takeaways at the end of each chapter. But now we've got a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to the show. They are, they're on purpose. They might have a great team that they lead. They're probably good leaders. But they're feeling a little burnout.

Yep.

Like, what do you do? And actually, you know what, I'm going to be completely transparent with you. Um, so when we just moved into this house, I moved at the same time that I did my first in-person event that I curated and had speakers flying in from all over. And I had, I had, uh, Yeah. I lost an assistant and was onboarding a new assistant for the first time, all at the same time between moving, new event. Oh, and I launched my mastermind.

Yes.

All at the same time.

Yeah.

That's pretty much it. I'm sure there's other things that are thrown in there, but my husband, who's not an entrepreneur at all, he is a retired cop. He does not get the whole entrepreneurial mindset. He thinks I'm crazy.

Right.

And he was like, This isn't fun. And I'm like, no kidding. It's not fun right now. Like we just moved. I just did my first person event. I'm onboarding a new assistant. So I've had no help. Like it's hell. It was hell.

Yeah, sure.

And it's hard on the family as an entrepreneur. Now things are better, like a lot better. Thank goodness. And he's even like, oh, things are good again. And I'm like, yes, but it's the ups and downs of an entrepreneurial journey. But I know there are seasons of things of hardship and what would you tell to an entrepreneur to not to get burned out so they don't get burned out so they can, it's sustainable? What's some good advice that you can give?

Well, yeah. So, here's my advice. If you are in your sweet spot, if you are spending 80% of your day doing what you are good at, Doing what you love and producing results that you care about, I got great news for you. You will not burn out.

Okay.

And I will also tell you that you were not burned out. You were just exhausted. There's a difference. There really is a difference. See, burnout happens when we spend a large portion of our day doing things that we're not very good at. You wanna talk about frustrating? I mean, come on. We human beings, we're not wired to do things below average. It is flat out discouraging and frustrating beyond belief. We know this. All right?

Mm-hmm.

And so, if we are spending a lot of our time doing things that we are not so good at, and we will come back to this, then we are going to start to feel burnout. If we are spending a lot of our time doing things that we do not enjoy, again, as human beings, we were not created to do things we do not care about. So, that's going to feel pretty burned out. And then, if we aren't producing results that we care about, then you're going to feel a lack of meaning in your work. And the slippery slope here is when we spend a lot of time doing work that doesn't matter to us, we begin to wonder if we matter.

Oh, that's powerful. So, say that again so they hear that loud and clear.

So, when we do a lot of work, we spend a lot of time doing work that does not matter to us, it doesn't go very long before we start to wonder if we matter.

Hmm.

There must be intrinsic motivation around the results that we create, meaning I create these results because I care deeply. The person who gets up at 5:00 AM in the morning to work out, they're not doing it just because. They're getting up early and suffering in order to feel good and look good. That's just a fact. And that's what's drawing them to suffer. So, back to your situation, you were just flat out tired. You were cooked. That's so true. I mean, but see, that's different than being burned out because you were going through a very, very intense season, shall we say a storm. And you came out of the storm to where the hubs is like, man, things are great. And you're like, yeah, Sparky, I know. Because we had to suffer to get here. And so, you know, interestingly enough, the root word for passion means to suffer.

Really? I did not know that.

Yeah, that's why, that's why Mel Gibson, whether you like him or not, the film about Jesus—

Do you know my hubby? He taught him how to ride a motorcycle.

That's fantastic. Yeah, I would love to talk to your husband about that. But anyway, the point is, is that passion is meaning I'm willing to suffer Watch.

Pain.

If we're working out—

Wow.

If we're working out, we got to tear those muscle tissues and it's going to hurt. Why do we do that? To strengthen ourselves. So we suffer for something that we care about. We suffer through tough times in our marriage because we are committed and we believe in the union. We suffer through physical therapy in order to get Healing. So, we suffer rejection. We suffer through patience. Oh, is there anything worse for an entrepreneur than waiting? Come on, folks. I'm reading your mail. I know I'm reading your mail. That is suffering because an entrepreneur is—

It is.

An entrepreneur is French for, I want it now, baby. You know, I think that's the translation. You use the word season so beautifully, and I think that's where I want to come back to as you were setting up the question. This is a season, not a sentence. It's not your sentence. You're not— it's not a judge saying you are sentenced to being frustrated as an entrepreneur for the next 30 years. No, it's a season. And I'll remind you of my favorite story from nature about the storm that you're in, because it's a storm and you're in this season of heavy storms. And there's 2 animals that handle storms very differently. They're both from the same family. Cats and dogs. Cows and buffaloes. So cows, when a storm approaches the field or the meadow that they're in, the stupid cows run away from the storm. Okay, and so what happens is the storm's approaching them and they begin to run away from the storm. Well, the storm eventually catches them. It is probably moving faster than they are, and so they end up running with the storm and as a result spend more time in the storm.

Hmm.

The buffalo, the cousin of the cow, out on the plains sees a storm coming, they put that massive head of theirs down and they run into the storm.

Wow.

And thus the storm is approaching them and they are approaching the storm and they go, there's no getting out of the storm. The storm's coming, baby, but I'm gonna get into it and I'm gonna go through it faster. And so they take the storm, they go head on, and as a result, they spend less time in the storm. And I just think that that's the encouragement I would give entrepreneurs. Number one, are you burned out? You might be. And you are burned out if you are not in that sweet spot that I call that intersection of what you do best, what you love to do, and what results motivate you.

Mm-hmm.

If those 3 are interlocked, I got great news for you. You're just plum exhausted because this is the season you're in. You're building. You're the chief everything officer. You're the one who cares more about it than anybody else. I got great news. If you keep your head down and keep charging, the storm will pass. And on the other side, the sun is shining, the birds are tweeting, and life is good.

You are so amazing. I love talking to you. I never knew that about cows and buffaloes. And where we bought our house, it's amazing because I lived in LA for 31 years and we just moved to Texas and it's a small town. And I come out of my little community and there's a field of cows and flowers and blue sky. And so now I'm going to think about you.

Think of that. Yeah.

And that analogy that you told me. You are amazing, Ken. I absolutely love talking with you. I love learning from you. I love your book. Thank you so much. I'm going to share both of your books in the show notes, but can you tell people where they can find you? And if there's anything that you have going on right now, is there a way for people to coach with you or?

Yeah. Well, I would say, you know, I speak to organizations. So depending on the size of your company and what you've got going on, or I do half day and full day Where I work with leaders to help them figure out what we were talking about. What is my leadership sweet spot? And then those that are dealing with hiring issues or kind of getting the right people on the right seat of the bus, because that's the magic. When you go from entrepreneur to successful small business leader, it's when you begin to put the team together and build a championship team. And so, I'm available for that. KenColeman.com is the website. That's the easiest place to kind of connect with the Podcast of the show, SiriusXM, YouTube, radio stations as well.

Yeah. So to listen to your show, they can go— can they go to your website at kencoleman.com to hear your show?

Well, I don't know if we stream it on the site. We might, but I mean, it's available anywhere that you can listen to podcasts. Spotify, Apple, Google. Oh gosh.

Well, I've seen you're a badass. I mean, I've seen it.

Beth, but I appreciate that. I am going hard because there's a lot of people to help, you know? And so, people can call into the show, by the way. I get calls from entrepreneurs all the time. You feel stuck, you're looking for a breakthrough, you know?

Okay. I have another question real quick. How did you get into your radio show?

Yeah. Well, Dave Ramsey asked me to come join him. And so, I was doing a lot of hosting. I was hosting the EntreLeadership Podcast, which is a great Great Leadership Podcast and doing some other things for him. And then he was like, hey, you're ready to do your own thing. I know you want to do your own thing, so let's give you a show. And when you're a Hall of Famer and an icon, he pulled some strings and I got a show every day live leading into him on SiriusXM. And so I had done radio in Atlanta on my own and had learned how to do radio well, so just technically could broadcast. But he was like, do a caller-driven show. And so— We just started doing it and we put the word out to the greater Ramsey Solutions tribe and we said, well, you got a work question, you feel stuck, you're confused, you're not clear, you want to get ahead, whatever, we'll take your calls. And Amberly, we just started like answering the phone and giving people advice. And I'd be honest with you, I sucked for the first 6 months. And I tell people that story because you have to embrace the suck.

I can't imagine you sucking though, honestly. Well, You're so good with people, like, and just being able to connect. I, I, I can imagine you might be hard on yourself, but I can't imagine you sucking.

Well, it wasn't great advice, and I mean that. Um, I, I wasn't awkward, and so to listen to me as the host probably wasn't very— it was probably very good, but the advice and the asking of questions live In the moment. You can't be good at that when you start.

Yeah.

That's what I want people to hear. Like the first time you ever spoke, it wasn't your best, it's your worst. So, you know, this idea that I'm gonna be good right outta the gate is so dangerous for folks.

Oh, thank you for sharing that.

I mean, when you have that expectation to be good the first time, I got news for you. You're gonna really let yourself down.

Well, you know, and that's why I leave my crappy post up from Instagram when I first got started on social media.

Fantastic.

And I leave my crappy post Up that get, you know, don't have that many likes. 'Cause I want people to know we all start from somewhere. Yes. That's the other, you know what I mean?

So that's how I got started in it. And now, you know, we've done 5,000 calls, uh, plus. And now I can, without seeing anybody, I can hear what's on 'em. I can hear the voice of depression. I can hear, I can hear doubt. I can hear, uh, I can hear emotions and it's just because when you do it so much, you know what the question behind the question is. Whatever the caller asks me is never the thing. It's always about 2 or 3 levels deeper is what they're really asking. And so the ability to, uh, it just takes cuts at the plate. You just gotta work at it and then you get good at it. It's a craft.

Yeah. That's amazing. When I first started, before I started my podcast, I was asked to do, I was, I was doing it live on a radio show. And I was driving to Santa Monica, which in traffic was taking a little over an hour. And at first I was like, oh my God, this is so amazing. I'm on the radio in Santa Monica, California. And then they were like, okay, and now we're going to need you to stay after to do a free webinar. And now we're going to need you to do this. And now we're going to— and I was like, oh my gosh, this is actually taking my whole entire day on Wednesday.

Yep.

And I don't think they realized, like, when I am in, like, when I go after something, I go for it like a million percent. And they weren't expecting for anybody to call in or even listen to the show the first day I was on. And I was like, listen, people, I'm about to do a radio show and I need y'all to call in. And the phones lit.

Yeah. It's a great story.

And it's because I love my community. And I was like, hey community, call in and ask me questions. And they did. And so the radio—

You asked for it.

I asked for it.

It's pretty bold to go on the radio and go, hey everybody, let's go. Yeah, call me and ask me questions. And you'd be surprised. Uh, that's a powerful story of just putting it out there and just being bold enough to ask for it.

I think that the radio play, they were shocked. They were like, oh wow, you're really serious. Like, we saw you advertised it on your social media and it got like over 30,000 views. And that was 3 years ago when my Instagram wasn't that big, but it blew up. And then they could not— the, the phone lines.

Yeah.

Were just blowing up and they were just like, Who is this girl? Like, what, what's going on? But it was because I asked for it. I am very connected with my community. And when they ask me for things, I deliver. And then when I ask them for things, they deliver. And so it's, it's magic like that.

Yeah.

But, um, but you are amazing. Like, this has been one of my favorite conversations. I love learning from you. I have loved reading your book. Thank you so much. I love your show. Y'all check him out. All like I said, all the links. Ken Coleman dot com is where they can find you. You can find his radio show and his books. But I just thank you. Thank you for being on True Grit and Grace. I appreciate y'all. You screenshot this and you can share it on your Instagram at Amberly Lago Motivation or at Ken Coleman. And when I see your Story, I repost it in mine. But I just want to know that you loved this episode with Ken and how much we appreciate him. And thank you for tuning in. And thank you again, Ken, for for being on the show.

Hey, you're doing incredible work, and you could have a lot of amazing guests. You chose to have me, and I'm grateful for that. Love, love, love these conversations.

Thank you.