Embracing Discomfort As Your Friend with Sterling Hawkins

Welcome to True Grit and Grace, a podcast designed to empower you to claim your resilience and thrive through life's challenges. I am Amberly Lago, a mindset coach, fitness expert and bestselling author. Each week, I'll dive deep with the world's brightest thought leaders and elite performers to share tangible tools and practical advice to inspire you to keep your eyes on the prize and forge ahead. So get ready to conquer your fears, heal any trauma, lead with your heart, and elevate your life with grit and grace.

Hi, y'all. I'm so glad you're here because today we have someone so special on the show. Look, we've all had moments of discomfort in our lives, experienced pain, setbacks, failures, and I think so many of us are going through a lot of pain and some extreme discomfort right now with everything that's going on in the world. So today's guest has some encouraging news for us. He says that discomfort leads to transformation and innovation. And on the other side of discomfort is the opportunity to grow, change, and live up to our highest potential. Sterling Hawkins has been featured in Forbes, The New York Times, done an incredible TED Talk. He's a master innovator, internationally recognized thought leader, and a top-rated Keynote speaker. And I am so grateful and so excited to have you here. Thank you, my friend, for joining us.

It's great to be with you. You know, it sounds so much better when you say it than it feels day to day, I got to tell you.

Oh my gosh. Well, you, you're amazing. And I'm so glad you're here. You've made time to come and share your wisdom on the show when we're in the middle— you're in the middle of moving. And we're in the middle of craziness with COVID and you showed up. So I appreciate you showing up. And you inspire me so much. I watch a lot of your talks that you have on YouTube. Um, and I've, I love your TED Talk. I've actually watched your TED Talk a few times. And I, because I love the message that you share and it's just such a great reminder because man, we all go through a lot of discomfort. Can you tell us about what was, what, what, what it was that was kind of your rock bottom or your tragedy that, you turned into a triumph and led you to where you are today?

Yeah. Well, I feel like I've had more than my fair share of these like rock bottom moments. And the one that I've, uh, that kind of crystallized everything happened, I guess it was about 3 or 4 years ago where like the business I was working on fell apart. Uh, I ran out of cash, so I didn't really have money to do anything. My girlfriend broke up with me. You know, it was kind of like words out of a country song.

I was just gonna say that. I was like, you sound like a country song right now because I listen to country.

Yeah. And I was just in kind of the pits of despair, you know, feeling bad about myself and, you know, sitting on the computer scrolling through social media wishing I was someplace, somebody else. Pizza boxes stacked up in the corner and You know, I'm sitting at the computer one day, which is at my parents' house, which is where you live when you don't have any cash. And I get this conference email, just a kind of generic one that we all get probably a bunch of every day, kind of a spammy thing that says, well, why don't you come to our conference? And as I was about to hit delete, this thing my mom said when I was younger came to me. She hadn't said it to me. said it recently, but for whatever reason it came to mind. She used to say, the way out is through. Turns out that's a Robert Frost quote. I know now. For me, it'll always be my mom, right?

Yeah. I like that your mom said it. Yeah.

And, um, for whatever reason I was like, you know what? One of the things that's scariest to me, that's most uncomfortable is speaking, kind of being out in public, being seen because At the time I was in my early 30s and having had some successes and then hitting this rock bottom, it was embarrassing. You know, I didn't want to share with anybody. I kind of isolated and retreated. And then, you know, the way out is through. I was like, you know what, let's try that saying. And so I'll never forget the moment I hit the reply button on the email and I write, Why don't you have me speak? Best, Sterling. Now, a friend of mine used to say it's better to be lucky than smart. And I was definitely lucky in this because somehow the conference director gets back to me and I'm like, really? Like, we're going to talk about me speaking there?

Well, I love that. You know, you kept it short and sweet. Like, why don't you have me speak? They're probably like, Who is this guy? You know, and let's do it.

Maybe, yeah, yeah. I mean, stars aligned. I didn't like have a background in speaking. I didn't have a website they could go to. I didn't have a speaking reel. It was really just kind of, hey, let's give it a shot.

Well, you know what? We were actually talking about this before we hit record, and that is one of my biggest speaking jobs I ever was booked for was because I saw an event and I saw who all was speaking there. And I was like, it would be my dream if I had the opportunity to speak at that event. And I reached— I sent them a direct message on Instagram and left my phone number. And it was very similar. I said, I would love to be a part of your event and be of service. Here's my phone number. And they actually called me and I got really lucky, you know, but it, and, and at the time I was like, this is what I want to do.

Yeah.

What are they going to say?

No.

What, you know? So I didn't really think that they would say yes though. And that was a whole process. Um, but you know, I think when we're just like, something's gotta change, we do whatever we can to make that change happen. So I want to know how many people you spoke in front of for your— this was like one of your biggest. Was this your first speaking event?

Well, first kind of recent. I had done some early in my career and of course like a public speaking class in college, but this was the first one where I got paid any meaningful money to come speak. And you know, what you were just saying reminds me of that great quote. It's like fortune favors the bold. I may have screwed that up, but you've probably heard that before. And sometimes it just takes reaching out and saying, you know what? It's a Hail Mary, but what do I have to lose?

Yeah. You have to ask. And I've had people ask me a lot, like, how did you get that speaking job? I'm like, I asked. You have to ask. And a lot of people, I think, you know, think people are going to come looking for you and say, oh, will you speak at my event? And sometimes that happens too. But most of the time I ask if there's something I want, I ask for it. You know, I love the saying, your hard work puts you where your blessings can find you. Because, you know, you have to work hard. I think it's about hard work. It's about the courage that you just talked about. And it's taking those action steps to make it happen.

Yeah. Well, when I was on the phone with this conference director for the first time, you know, we talked about what I wanted to speak on. At the time, it was all kind of innovation-focused because that was all my background. And, you know, at the very end of the call, I think because I had nothing to lose, and again, all it takes is asking, I said, well, what's your budget? And he actually gave me a number. And I don't know what I was thinking at the time, but I was like, you know, I've never really done this before. I don't know what I'm doing. I'd like to get paid double that. And he didn't answer me at the time, but came back to me by email a couple of days later. And he's like, we'll fly you business class and we'll meet in the middle on price. Does that work? And I'm like, yes, I think I've pushed this far enough. And that was it.

Wow.

Wow. I did something similar once there. It was one of my first speaking jobs and I had no idea like how to negotiate. I didn't know, you know, speaking fees, range so much. And I remember they said, well, what is your fee? And I said, well, what is your budget? Just to answer, well, what's your budget? You know, it's like, in other words, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So when you got to Singapore, how was that? How big was the audience?

Well, I was terrified. I mean, I practiced incessantly. My poor sister heard this talk that I was giving Like hundreds of times. I would write it and rewrite it, change the deck, change the story, move the ending to the beginning. And about 3 weeks before, I stopped sleeping very well because I started having anxiety about it. Like, what am I doing? I don't belong in front of— I think it was a couple thousand people in Singapore. Like, it almost felt like that imposter syndrome.

Oh my gosh.

Like, it's not me. They've got the wrong guy.

Thank you so much for sharing that because I think we all go through those moments where it's imposter syndrome and like, oh my gosh, and moments of freakout. And I did the same thing before I did my TED Talk.

Mm-hmm.

And oh my gosh, I was terrified. And in fact, every one of the other speakers, they all had PhDs. And so I started that comparison and even my husband was like, well, they put it up on the website and you're the only one that doesn't have a PhD. And I was like, you said you didn't. Yeah, like, thanks for helping me out with that. I know. And then he said, well, you know, you should ask if they can at least say that you're an author. And so when I talked to the curator, I was like, you know, my husband, Told me I'm the only one that doesn't have a PhD. And she goes, are you concerned because you don't have a PhD? And I was like, well, yeah. She goes, you have a PhD in heart, and that is why you're invited to do this TED Talk, because you have heart. And I was like, that changed my life. I love that. And I think that if everybody can remember we're all asked to do something, um, an event, or, or, you know, whether it's an event and speaking in front of a boardroom of 8 people or in front of 8,000, we have either our experience or we have the heart to show. We all have something to share and we can all learn from one another. And so I appreciate you sharing that you were scared too. It's, it's really scary. And, you know, it's, I guess, the number 2 fear besides Death itself is speaking in public. And then yet we still choose to do it. Now, do you still get nervous each time you speak?

Um, nowhere near what it used to be. You know, I've done it enough times where, like, I'll still have the same thoughts in my head, but I don't, like, grab onto them as much anymore. You know, the thoughts that I think anybody would have, like, well, what if they don't like me? Or what if I don't know what to say? Or Or what if somebody asks me a question I don't know the answer to? So it's still kind of that same reel runs, but I've done it so many times and I'm like, well, some of those things have happened and I've been okay and I've kind of navigated it and it might happen again and I'll probably still be fine.

You made it through, you made it through this far. You're gonna— Yeah.

But the first time in Singapore, I was so rehearsed. I did it hundreds of times, like I was saying. And, you know, I've interviewed a lot of people that have been part of the military. And one of the key things that they focus on is practice, right? Do it so many times it becomes muscle memory. And I think that's kind of a piece of it. But the other piece is what you were speaking to is, well, what's the purpose? You know, practice alone really doesn't get you much. You need a reason why. And I got connected to really the night before. I was like, well, why am I here?

Mm-hmm.

I'm here to like really make a difference for these people. And that's what I want to communicate. The words are really secondary, but my intention is that you walk out of my talk having gotten a new perspective, a new direction, a new action to take. And so when I gave it, I was still terrified. You know, I was wearing a suit thankfully, so you can't see like me sweating underneath. And semi-blacked out on the stage. I just went through it as best I could and, you know, really led with my heart. I kind of turned off my brain as best as I could, or maybe my brain turned off. It was so nervous.

Well, I love that though. I always say, get out of your head and stay in your heart. Always speak from the heart. And my dad, I love that you, you know, quoted your mom. And my dad said something to me when I was going to give my very first talk. And I was actually in a suit. I had never owned a suit. owned a suit before and I went out and bought a suit.

Very nice.

And I don't, I don't think I ever even wear a suit to ever speak. I think that was the only time I'd ever spoken in a suit. And he said, I was so nervous. And he said, Amberly, remember, remember why you're doing it. This isn't about you. This is about the people that you're going to go see right now. And when I can take myself out of the equation and remember it's about the people that I'm serving, And I'm like, oh, that takes a lot of the nerves. But I have grown to like those butterflies in my stomach and the nerves. And if I don't have them, I get a little worried. Like, why am I not nervous? What's going on? I should be nervous right now. And then I always do pushups before stage, before interviews. I did pushups before we started today. I was like, oh, I gotta go down and get 20 pushups in to get ready for this. There you go. Um, yeah. And I think that helps.

I think the butterflies just mean you care, you know, like you, you care, sure, what you look like and that you're presenting, but you also care about the audience. If you didn't care about them, you wouldn't feel anything. And so I'm, I'm the same as you. Like I look for those feelings every time because they can kind of direct me. And yeah, I'm sure everybody's heard a million times, like it's the same body sensations of nerves versus excitement. And so, you know, the more that I do it, the more I'm able to kind of harness those things. A good friend of mine, his name's Sean Liftsay, he says, well, you can get your butterflies to fly in formation. I'm like, yeah, that's kind of it. You kind of just direct it over to the more excited side that connected to why you're doing it, connected to the audience. And all of a sudden it's that much easier.

I love that. Well, you know, you, you talk a lot about moving through pain. I share a lot about that too. I think that it doesn't necessarily get rid of all the pain, but we get to choose whether we're going to suffer or not. And I love that you talk about how to move through pain and discomfort and embrace it instead. Now, there are a lot of people out there going— they're really uncomfortable right now. What would you do or tell them or suggest to them? To take an action step to get out of that discomfort and start moving towards their goals?

Yeah. Well, when I got off that stage in Singapore, I was talking to the conference director and he goes, this was the greatest talk I've seen in my entire 15-year career.

Wow.

And so I'm blown away by this, right? Because I was just hoping to get by and nobody be like, you're a fraud, get out of here.

But you did, you practiced and you did it with heart. I think that's— and you cared.

Yeah. Well, and what happened was he then went on to put me in touch with all of his conference director friends and I, well, had a speaking career on my hands. And were it not for me embracing discomfort, well, I'd probably be sleeping on my parents' couch still, you know. And as I've gone on to do all sorts of research and interviews and kind of go through my own personal experiences, you know, like I was saying, it happened back in March where all of us, especially anybody that had an in-person business, it gets turned on its head and the world is entirely new. But whenever there's discomfort, there's a massive opportunity on the other side. It just takes Going through it. So to answer your question, you know, I, I've gotten so— I, I will hunt discomfort. And I think that's something everybody can kind of take and grasp onto. You know, if I'm working with businesses, it's okay, well, let's make a list of all the things in your business that you're uncomfortable doing. And chances are you're either not doing those things, avoiding them, or kind of doing them halfway. So now we've got a hit list of what we can go after, and it's likely those things that are gonna make a dramatic difference. And, you know, I also talk to people about the same thing in their lives. You know, what are the things that make you uncomfortable? Speaking in public or speaking on Zoom meetings? Okay, well, let's, let's go do that. Maybe in a small way, maybe in a big way. If you're afraid to ask for a free coffee at Starbucks, well, go try it. You know, what do you have to lose? And the more we're able to embrace that discomfort, kind of meet it head on and even really start to search it out, we start to acclimate to higher and higher levels of being able to deal with the unknown, to deal with discomfort. So something like a pandemic happens, well, we've got that resilience already built inside of us. And I know, like, you're the expert on resilience, right? But over time, well, you get to be in the space of, Well, I can handle anything. Like, I've been chasing this discomfort for a while. When it comes to me, well, maybe it's easier than it would have been.

I think that definitely things that we do and habits that we create allow us to strengthen our resilience. And, you know, I think I really— when you were talking about embracing the discomfort and looking at those things that make you uncomfortable, I think I can kind of think of it like if If you want to start, if you want to be a marathoner, if you want to start running, if you thought about, well, it makes me really uncomfortable to run, but today I'm not going to try to run 24 miles, I'm going to try to run 1 mile, or I'm going to try to run half a mile and just take it, making little bits of progress every day.

Yeah.

It not only becomes a little more comfortable and familiar, It becomes doable and then it becomes a habit. And then before you know it, you're a marathoner. I'm really uncomfortable actually doing things on camera where you have to hold your phone up and like video yourself. Oh my gosh. Kills me. Like the whole TikTok thing, the whole, you know, Instagram stories, all that.

Yeah.

And my daughter is a pro at it and it's because she's done it so much. It's just, It's not uncomfortable for her anymore. And so I think that if anything's uncomfortable, the more we can just do it. But I love your advice to take a look at what's making you uncomfortable. And I always tell my clients, do something that scares you every day.

Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think you're right. You can make kind of little steps towards something. But I think the size of your breakthrough is equivalent to what you're risking or how big that discomfort is. And when you— I kind of jokingly call it get a tattoo. Like you commit to something so thoroughly there's no way out. Like for me it was saying, yeah, I'm going to speak there in Singapore and I'm on the docket and there's my picture and here's my plane tickets. Right. There's no way out. I've, I've gotten a tattoo.

Oh yeah.

Not literally, but figuratively. And then all of a sudden, like debilitatingly scary, but huge breakthrough results. And I think, you know, anybody can say, okay, well, yeah, I can do the incremental approach and that's fine and it's great and it certainly works. But you can also like throw your hat over the fence, go for something really big and commit yourself to it. You know, post it on Facebook, share it with your friends and family, sign up to be a speaker on Zoom somewhere, like whatever Whatever it is, get yourself locked in so you don't have an out. And likely you're going to have a much bigger breakthrough as a result of that.

Yeah. You know, that reminds me when the Today Show calls me and they're like, Megyn Kelly wants to interview you. And I was like, Megyn Kelly? What? I couldn't even say her name. And I'm thinking they're probably like, oh my God, that girl can't even talk. Maybe we don't want her. But I called my husband and told him and he's like, oh, well, you got to post it. You got to share about it. We got to tell— and I said, no, you're not going to tell anyone. Not until I have my plane ticket in hand and I'm actually sitting on the plane, then I'll share it. Because you're right. It's kind of throwing the hat over the fence. And I thought, the Today Show is news. What if they cancel me and I've already announced to the world that I'm going to be on the Today Show and they're like, nah, never mind. You know, so it's scary when you make— when you get the tattoo, as you put it.

It really is. The amount that you risk is equivalent to your breakthrough potential. And the higher you shoot and the more like you put yourself on the line for it, because like if nobody was holding me to that conference, it was kind of optional, I probably wouldn't have gone. Like, oh, I'm really nervous this morning. I'm gonna pass. I'll do it the next day or the next day or the next day, right? But when you're on the line and you've got something at risk, it really calls you into action. And maybe you saw it with the Today Show, like you become the kind of person that you have to be to be on the Today Show.

Oh yeah. I said, I said, I said, the producer called and I said, well, now what questions are they going to ask me? And she said, oh, this is news. You just need to keep your ears open and listen to what she asks you. And I was like, Okay, thank you very much.

Right.

The whole plane ride. So my husband and daughter went and we're sitting on the plane. My husband's asleep on this shoulder, my daughter on this shoulder. And I was like a deer in the headlights the entire flight. Like, oh my gosh, I'm so scared about this. But it was one of the best days of my life. And I think it is. I love the way you put that. The bigger the risk, the bigger, like, you're going to have a breakthrough. You're going to see the biggest change. You're going to really see transformation. I love that. And I think that what helps me too is I actually have an accountability partner.

Yeah.

And so we check in with each other every morning and that really helps with my mindset. What are some of the things you do to have the right mindset to get you through hard times like right now when everything has changed and maybe some of your speaking engagements are canceled? I know most of mine, if not, you know, some have been changed to virtual, but others that I was really excited about were just canceled. What do you do to keep a positive mindset and to keep moving forward and being innovative and Yeah, well, you're right.

Back in March, you know, I'm on this like huge trajectory. It's a record year. I've hired a bunch of people and literally in a span of 3 days, it goes to zero.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I remember I had just gotten back from speaking at a client's in Orlando and, you know, they had sanitizer and weren't shaking hands, but I was like, okay, this is, this is okay. I'll do another next week and we'll do the same. And I got home, I unpacked my bags, I was sitting on the couch and, well, my intention was to look at emails, but I ended up opening Facebook first. And I'll never forget it. It's March 11th when the NBA suspended their season. And I had this like, oh my God moment where if the NBA, you know, multi-billion dollar organization is canceling their season, Because of in-person, because of COVID what am I gonna do? And minutes later the phone rings and sure enough, the speaking engagement the following week canceled. A couple minutes later the phone rings again and it kept going. So I'm like in this damage control for a while of, you know, you probably went through the same thing, right? Changing your flights and, you know, how's the cash flow and what's gonna go on with everybody?

Yeah. And I was hanging on to, a few that were booked out in October. And I remember when they started canceling the ones that were all the way out into October. And I thought, I— that's when I cried. I was like, oh my gosh, October, but surely everything will be better by then, you know? And yeah, so same thing. Yeah, it's just everything changed.

Yeah. And I think it's that way for like everybody. I mean, their business may have not been totally canceled, but certainly life has changed in a very meaningful, traumatic way. And, you know, once again, I kind of felt myself in the pits of it. Like, I can't believe this happened to me again. Like here, I just figured out this speaking workshop career and I'm, I'm ready to roll and I figured it out. And well, what's wrong with me? Like, why do I deserve this?

Hmm.

And I saw on Facebook a guy I used to work with like 17 years prior passed away from COVID, unfortunately. And this is back again, still in probably late March. And I looked in the mirror and I was like, you know, you're healthy, your family's healthy, you've actually been through this a bunch of times before, you know how to do this. And my first step is always find something that's uncomfortable, like look for a big discomfort. And what I found, again, I think this time it was on Instagram. Have you heard of David Goggins? Do you know him?

Oh yeah, yeah. He's awesome.

He's like the big Marine and he runs 100 miles and this thing popped up.

He's a beast.

He's a monster. And he talks about, or this particular day he was talking about a 4x4x48, which is running 4 miles every 4 hours for 48 hours. Sounds insane, but it was just what I was looking for. Now, I'm not a runner. I ran a marathon about a decade ago when I had first moved to LA. And yeah, I've run a couple of miles here or there. I still have the same shoes from 10 years ago, like these old Asics with the sole like that, you know, super thin. And I go, you know what? I'm going to do that this weekend. And I put myself on the line for it. I posted on social media and I said, I'm going to do this.

Yeah.

And Friday morning I get up and I just start running. I, you know, don't have all this crazy running gear. I told you about my sneakers, and I throw some shorts on and a t-shirt, and I set out. And the first 4 miles almost killed me.

Really?

Right. I'm coming back in thinking, I can't believe I've got another 44 to go. And then it kind of got darker because, you know, I'm getting up at 3 in the morning to do this. And then 7 in the morning.

That sounds awful.

It was awful. It really was awful. Like, I thought it was gonna be bad, but it was far worse than I thought it was going to be. And, you know, for me, and I think for many people, like, it's easy to stay in the pits of despair or kind of feel bad about the whole thing and, you know, wish for different circumstances. And it was almost like I needed something to break my sorrow, like something that was going to shake me up so much it would kind of kick me into gear again. And it happened somewhere around the 30-mile mark where, like, I was deep in the, I should have trained for this. I shouldn't have posted it on social media. That was so stupid. What are you doing? You don't even have the right sneakers. You're not a runner. You're not going to finish this. And then it was like all of that faded away. And what came to me is, well, I'm going to finish this no matter what, whether I have to walk it, crawl it, you know, somehow get across that finish line, I'm going to do it. And I thought, there's so much peace in that. Like, all of a sudden I wasn't worried about what was around the next corner or how much pain I was in. It was like, well, yeah, I just kind of surrendered to the situation that was, there was no other option other than completing it. And it was hugely empowering, right? When there's, there's no backdoor, there's no cancellation policy. It's just, yeah, I'm going to do that.

Yeah. You know, that reminds me, I had, when I had my like breakthrough moment with what was going on in my life when I was diagnosed with complex regional pain syndrome. And it was that same moment of, well, this is it, but I'm just— I got to get through it. There's no way out but through.

Exactly.

And it was that same kind of moment that I had. And sometimes I do think that it helps to look in the mirror and be grateful for all that you do have. And gratitude for me is just my medicine. It really— whenever I'm feeling low or start to slip into feeling like, you know, why me? I always think, well, why not me?

Right.

Why not me? Why, you know, maybe I can get through this and show others how to get through it too. Maybe I'm the one that's gonna, you know, be the one to teach others that they can heal. So why not me? When I got caught up in the Why me? Why is this happening? I felt like such a victim. But when I say, why not me? It makes me feel like a victor. Like, I've got this, you know? And so it really helps. I miss running so much though. I love to run. That was— now, when I said that sounds awful because I don't think I would ever like to set my alarm for 3 in the morning and run, but I loved to run.

Trust me, you don't.

Uh, well, how did you feel once you completed it?

Uh, well, I mean, exhausted, right? Like totally beat. But what was really kind of cool to witness, and I think this is true for everybody, is I got up into 46, 47, and coming up on the 48th mile, and all of a sudden I felt great. I'm like, I have so much gas in the tank, and what was going on up here was kind of pulling me back, I ended up running an extra 2 miles just to make it an even 50.

Oh my goodness.

I know. And I—

you're an overachiever, aren't you?

Well, I tend to be, but, you know, I think—

I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

I think that, you know, the gratitude is such a big piece of it, not just like who you are and what you're doing, but also gratitude for the pain that you're in. And, you know, I'd be curious what you think about it, but for me, Like when I go through some kind of pain, I go through some kind of turmoil. Like, yeah, I wouldn't wish it on myself. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But it means like now I can recognize that kind of pain, that kind of discomfort in another. And there's some meaning in that.

There, there is meaning. And I remember, um, when I started training clients again, um, this client of mine, God, she's just the sweetest. No, I really love her. I love her. I had her for 20 years. And she just passed away. But she told me when I started training her again, she said, Amberly, you know, you're a much better trainer now. She goes, because you can understand what I'm going through. Whereas before, I was completely healthy. I was a beast. I would like run every day, do Krav Maga, box. I was like insane.

Yeah.

And I couldn't comprehend what it felt like to have arthritis or what it felt like to have your back hurt or what it felt like to not be able to balance. And now I could really understand what that felt like, you know, to not be able to get up gracefully from the floor. And I remember one of the things that I'll never forget about when I first started training her, her goal was she wanted to be able to get up off the floor gracefully.

Hmm.

And I always thought, well, that's what kind of a goal? I didn't understand that because I didn't ever think about having to get up. I could just pop up. And boy, could I understand so much. Our pain, you know, the pain that I have experienced and still experience has been my greatest teacher. And so for that, I am grateful because it helps me understand more. So I love that you put it that way. But for others who may be going through some pain, and that could be emotional or physical, what is some advice you could offer them to get through that? What would be your number one tip to get through that?

Well, I think probably that there is some meaning in it, right? And maybe it's hard to see the meaning, but knowing that there's something bigger on the other side of that. And I would also say something that we pointed to earlier, that You know, it's about a support system. It's about, you know, I call it like building a street gang, like people that have your back no matter what and will kind of support you through the hard times and maybe give you those hard truths that you don't want to recognize yourself. Like, oh yeah, you can do it, but I don't feel like it.

Well, a question that I get often is, well, how do you find your support group? How do you build your community? I get that question a lot. How do you build your community? Or your gang, your street gang.

Street gang?

Yeah. How do you build your street gang and do you have matching jackets?

Well, not yet. We're going to have them very soon. They're going to have the hashtag #NoMatterWhat on them, right? But I think first you've got to share what's really important to you, what you really believe in. You know, I was working with a business client the other day and she was like, well, here's the executive strategy that we've all been tasked with. But I don't think that's right. I think the answer is over here. We should do X, Y, and Z instead. And I'm like, well, if you're not telling anybody that, nobody knows. And you're closest to it and you probably have a better answer. And that's a business example. But it happens to all of us, right? Like, well, I don't really want to talk about that politics or religion or those things you're not supposed to talk about. With the neighbors because they might have a different point of view and they might. But unless you start sharing some of those things that are important to you, some of those things that you're dealing with, or maybe even some of those goals you have, well, the people, your tribe, your street gang can't find you. And it does take a lot of courage. Again, discomfort to be able to do that because that can be scary.

That can be scary. And I remember when I had my first experience with haters, and I had never experienced that.

And how you have haters, I have no idea.

You're like, oh, you're so sweet. Oh my gosh, I, I— you're so sweet. I was— I have to say, I was like really heartbroken. It really got me. I was shocked. And they were mad at me because of what I was saying. I was speaking for CRPS, trying to bring more awareness. And I was saying that you can get through pain with your mindset. And they were very upset with that. And I was not trying to demolish the pain that they were going through. But, you know, my husband said something that really made a difference. He said, well, that's good. He said, you're sharing what your truth is. And he goes, Amberly, you always say stick with the puppy uppers and not the doggy downers. He goes, you need to practice your own advice. He goes, because— and surround yourself with people who have a positive outlook, he said. And so it's like, he often gives me that kind of slap in the face that's like, not really, but like—

Right.

Kimberly, you need to practice what you preach, you know? And he said, but that is how you find your tribe. And you're right, it can be scary. What would you tell someone That is like, oh my gosh, I am so scared to speak my truth. I don't want to tell people that I'm going through this painful situation or that I'm going through a divorce or that I'm going through a breakup or that I lost my job. What would you suggest to help them get over that fear? Yeah.

Well, I think we build that resilience kind of holistically. You know, so that means if you're able to handle discomfort in one area, It starts to just naturally take hold in another. And so, you know, you might not be able to say, hey, I'm getting a divorce right out of the gate. That's fine. Well, what, what can you do? Can you go for a 5-mile run or, you know, maybe do some of those things in your business that you're nervous or scared to do? Or like, where can you find discomfort in your life?

Mm-hmm.

And likely, you know, you said something about mindset earlier. And I think it's really deeper than mindset is, you know, it's almost a belief, like a core belief. Because my mindset's all over the place sometimes. You know, like I wake up and I'm tired and it's not a good mindset and I exercise and it's a positive mindset. Right? But there's something below just the in-the-moment mindset that really drives you. And so what I've found and what I'll tell people all the time is Well, it's easier to say those kinds of things right after you do something you're uncomfortable doing, which can be a very simple thing. Here's a fun example, right? You don't say I love you to your parents a lot. Well, call them up and say that. And then right after that, well, you might be a little more free to talk about that divorce you've got, right? Or one of my favorites is we'll go skydiving and then when you're all lit up, After you make it back on the ground, well, you're probably all excited and ready to roll and telling somebody that you got a divorce or telling somebody that what you really believe is not that hard in that moment.

It really sounds like you're talking about perspective and, you know, just shifting your perspective a little bit, doing these little things. Because if you're jumping out of a plane, which I've done, by the way, and it's— I would love to go again. After you've done that, you do, it's like you've got this boost of confidence that, okay, well, I survived that. Things aren't so scary, you know? And so I love that, that you can take something as small as making a phone call to your parents, but one thing leads to another. And I also love that you say it's not just about your mindset, but a really a core belief. And I think that I really believe in having those core values. And if something doesn't align with those core values, whether it's a friendship or a business or whatever it may be, then the answers become easier. It's an easier yes or no for me.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And I talk with people to say, like, this idea of hunting discomfort and really going after it and growth as a person, well, that can be a core value just as strong as integrity or honesty or anything else. And when you put it at such a deep level, Like, you're unstoppable at that point.

Yeah, I love that. And actually, I love unstoppable. We talked about before we started recording the podcast about how I was launching this 12-week course, and it's called Your Unstoppable Life is what it was called.

Perfect.

Yeah, so I love that you said that. A couple more questions because I know you're so busy, but I want— you talk a lot about innovation, and I would love for you to describe quickly, like, what that looks like to you?

Yeah. Well, innovation is kind of a buzzword, and my background is kind of technical innovation, right, where I've grown different startups and worked with different, mostly software and hardware companies. But the longer I've gone, I've realized that innovation, real innovation, is actually much bigger than that. It can be any significant positive change. Could be technical, of course, because that's how we're most familiar with it.

Mm-hmm.

But it could be in your relationships, team performance, even your financials. What innovation means to me is something that's not just a little bit better than today. You know, it's meaningful, it's transformational, maybe, maybe even exponential change for the better. And like we were talking about earlier, like, yeah, incremental is, is important. We have to do those things. We have to take small steps towards big goals. But that doesn't mean at the same time we can't again throw our hat over the fence and shoot for those big goals tomorrow instead of 10 years from now.

Yeah, I love that. And I love in your TED Talk how you gave the story about Elon Musk.

Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. Well, we're big fans over here of Tesla. My 12-year-old is the one who researched Tesla, wants to work for Elon Musk when she grows up. And she, after she wrote me like a huge research paper comparing cars and why Tesla was the best. I was like, okay, well, let's go test drive one. And when I test drove it, I cried because it's really hard for me, not just because it's a beautiful car, because I'm not really a car person. I'm more of a truck girl. I had a truck for 10 years, but it was so hard for me to drive because it's my right leg that has CRPS. And so it was kind of like someone punching me And on a broken foot, you know. And so when I test drove this car and I didn't have to touch the pedal, I started crying. And the, the guy looked at me and he like was like, why, why is your mom crying? And my husband didn't want me to get a Tesla really. And he called my daughter and said, well, how did the test drive go? He said, Mom's so happy that she's crying. And what it was, it was so innovative. It was so transformational. It was freedom. It was like this new solution. And man, when we have moments like that— and by the way, I'm not trying to like really promote Tesla. It sounds like that, but it was like, for me, it was a solution to my pain.

Yeah. You know, that's beautiful. Well, and how Elon got there, I think, is a testament to what we're talking about here. He sold PayPal for $180 million. And I think most people would say, okay, well, now I'm going to buy my yacht or retire for a while. Now I'm set. And what he did, and I don't know if most people know this, but he put $100 million into SpaceX, $70 million into Tesla, and $10 million into what was SolarCity. And he was literally sleeping on friends' couches. And it's like, well, that's uncomfortable. But he almost forced himself. He put himself on the line to have some breakthrough moments and what he's created across all of those companies, not just Tesla, but, you know, SpaceX.

SpaceX. Oh yeah.

Space Station. I mean, it's unbelievable and it's transformational change compared to, well, you know, a lot of the other car companies are just now starting to get their heads around, well, We're gonna do autonomous driving and we're gonna start to look at electric. And he started that well before them. And now he's seen a lot of the great results. We all are.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I had his mom, Maye Musk, on the, on the show. And actually, I had her on the day that COVID hit, like that everything shut down and everybody was on Zoom. And so Thank goodness during the interview Zoom cut out twice and I was like, I had planned on just doing the interview in person and she was so patient and hung in there. But it was like now everybody's kind of settled into how things are working. Yeah, she's amazing. Well, what is your definition of resilience?

Uh, well, I think the easy answer is you fall down 7 times, you get up 8. You know, there, there's something inside you that keeps going. And, you know, I think the most beautiful part about that is that we're all doing it.

Mm-hmm.

We're all still here. I mean, we might not have exactly what it is that we want, but we've, we've done something. We've arrived to this point of, what is it now? I guess it'll come out in September 2020. We all have that resilience and it's just the recognition of it to say, oh yeah, I got knocked down and I can get up again. And by the way, if I really want results, and this is like advanced level stuff, I can knock myself down and stand back up and come back better. I think Tiger Woods and his golf game was probably a good example of that. Wow.

Well, thank you so much. I want you guys check out his TED Talk. It's so good. And your website is beautiful. Can you share your website so everybody can go check it out and also follow you on all your social media? I love watching your Instagram. But yeah, where can people find you?

Of course. The website's got it all there. So sterlinghawkins.com. Sterling spelled with an S-T-E-R-L-I-N-G. Sometimes people put an I in that first spot, but spelled with an E. I think it's the Old English spelling of it, if I'm correct.

Yeah. And I'll have that in the show notes. So if you're listening to this on your run, on your 4-mile run right now, don't worry. It's in the show notes and on the website. So again, please go check out his TED Talk, check out his website, because he's got free gifts there. And he's got a lot of exciting things that are coming up here pretty soon. Thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your wisdom. I'm so glad I finally got to talk to you and have you on.

Thank you. And likewise, I mean, you're, you're an inspiration for me. So it's really an honor to Thank you.

Thanks so much for joining us this week on True Grit and Grace Podcast. If you like it, please rate it or share it with your friends.

That would help too.

If you're not yet on the newsletter list, come over to amberlylago.com and jump on it. While you're there, you can grab a A free downloadable gratitude journal, and you might just want to check out my book or even check out my monthly motivational membership. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next week.