Heal Your Pain and Love Yourself with Tara Mackey

Welcome to True Grit and Grace, a podcast designed to empower you to claim your resilience and thrive through life's challenges. I am Amberly Lago, a mindset coach, fitness expert and bestselling author. Each week, I'll dive deep with the world's brightest thought leaders and elite performers to share tangible tools and practical advice to inspire you to keep your eyes on the prize and forge ahead. So get ready to conquer your fears, heal any trauma, lead with your heart, and elevate your life with grit and grace. Hey, and welcome back to True Grit and Grace. I'm Amberly Lago, and I have a freaking legend on the show today. She happens to be a friend of mine, I have to say too, and I'm just so excited to have Tara Mackey here. She is the CEO of Genetics Organics. She is a songwriter, an accomplished musician. She's a best-selling author of not one but two books. And she's got a heart of gold and she gives back so much. Y'all, she's been featured in Forbes and Glamour and Teen Vogue, Women's Health, Women's Day Magazine, Healthline, and much more. She has conversations with Gary Vee. I enjoyed that, by the way. So thank you so much for being here. I'm so happy to see you.

Thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it. And everybody loves a good conversation with Gary Vee. Who doesn't love that?

I know. Isn't he amazing?

I pivot my Business every time I talk to him, it's almost annoying. I'm like, God damn it, Gary.

I know. Maybe he'll be on your podcast because I know you have a brand new podcast coming out.

So tell us. I am talking to Vayner this week. Actually, we're trying to make it happen. Yeah, we're talking. I'm talking to Vayner on Wednesday, so we'll see.

Oh, that is awesome.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, my podcast Bold and Brilliant just launched. Well, it actually hasn't. The first episode hasn't come out yet, but we just launched the trailer, and I'm just super excited about it because it's you know I'll have you on it, and I'm. Just having conversations with people who are, you know, have made bold and brilliant moves in life to get where they are today. Because I feel like that combination is really the secret sauce of how, you know, you get over the shit and you become who you were put here to be. And so I'm just asking people the tough questions that I feel like nobody really asks people in interviews. You know, I asked Jerick Robbins what it was like to be Tony Robbins' son. And for real though, like the polarity of like, what is it like when your dad's flying you around in helicopters to private Michael Jackson shows, and then your mom and your aunt and you live, you know, in a 2-bedroom apartment in a completely different part of San Diego. Like, what is the polarity of that? And so those are the conversations that I'm just really excited to have with people and just pull out the nitty-gritty of how people get where they are today.

Well, I love that. I love real conversations. And we first met at a Powerful You event where we were speaking, and I was like, Who is this girl, this woman, this radiant being? Because you just, you can feel the good vibes coming off of you. Even when you were talking earlier, I like, I got goosebumps.

Wow.

And I love that you just, you share the tough times because I think it can look like it comes easy to so many people, especially if you look on social media. And it's like, oh my God, well, she's got millions of followers. She's been in all these magazines. She's a bestselling author, but they don't know what you went through and turned your life around. You have got such an incredible story and have really transformed, you know, uh, what could have been tragic for some people. They could have, they, you know, could have gone, gone down a completely different route.

Yeah.

So can you tell us a little bit about how you transformed your life? And how old were you when you decided you wanted more out of life?

That's a great question. You know, I did go down that route for a long time. And I think a lot of people, they don't change until they get to rock bottom, or they get to that, that crazy place. And I think part of what I do today, the work that I do today is making sure that people don't have to get to that crazy place to change. But yeah, I was, you know, born to 2 drug addicts, and my mom raised me as a single parent. And I Grew up in Queens in an attic with my mom. That's where we lived. My mom overdosed in front of me when I was a kid on heroin. She ended up becoming addicted to heroin and cocaine by the time I was 5 and 6. Still, her worst drug was alcohol and cigarettes. Cocaine and heroin are more deadly. So she overdosed, she survived, but I witnessed that overdose. And from there, my grandparents got custody of me. Um, and you know what?

At age 6?

At 6 is when they took me. By 7 is when, you know, because the court process takes—

Yeah.

A while. And my mom— and you know, it's not easy to take a kid from a parent, especially a single parent. The really only reason that my grandparents got custody of me— it wasn't all the horrific things I've seen. That's not enough to take a kid away from a parent, especially a parent that's wanting to go to rehab, etc., although you would think it would be. It was because my mom showed up to court drunk. And, you know, if you're hoping to leave court with your child, it's not the best way to do it.

Mm-hmm.

So my grandparents got temporary custody of me, temporary custody that lasted till I was 18. My mom was in and out of rehab, in and out of jail, got sober again when I was 10, came and lived with my grandparents and I for 2 years. My grandparents went on their first vacation ever without us, left my mom and I home alone, and then she relapsed in front of me again.

Oh.

When I was 12. Not long after that, I got put on my first medication, which was a drug called lithium, which is a mood stabilizer because I was—

That's a pretty hardcore drug.

It was a hardcore drug. I'm a tiny person. I was an extremely tiny person at 12 years old. Yeah, I was on a lot of it. I started off at 500 milligrams and I ended up, by the time I switched drugs, I was on 1,500 milligrams lithium. I would take these big pills. They were about this big. I would take 4 of them every day. And they were 500 milligrams each. So yeah.

Wow. So did you have— what kind of coping skills did you have? Like, I grew up in an environment where I did not ever feel safe. I didn't. And I did not trust my gut because I was told that I was wrong for a lot of different things that were, that were not good. And I'm like, they said, no, that's normal. That's how a child is raised. So part of you is like, oh, This is normal. And that— but then inside of you, it's like, this is not normal. You know, it's not right. So my coping skill became athleticism. Thank goodness I had a coping skill that was dancing and athletics. My 2 other brothers did not. They turned to drugs and alcohol. So you had the prescriptions from doctors. Did you have any other kind of coping mechanisms? Or—

I will say this, prescription without therapy is not a coping mechanism.

At all.

It's not even a band-aid because if you're not changing your mindset, to even start to biologically and chemically change what's going on inside your body is only going to do so much. Biologically and chemically changing what's going on inside your body is not going to make you start independently thinking positive thoughts on any planet in any world.

I think it just numbs you out. I think it just numbs you out and it blocks all emotions. Yes. Joy.

Yeah.

Happiness is— it's not just that it cuts off one You know, anxiety or some sadness or depression. It's like, I think it just almost numbs you out.

Yeah, I used to call it the empty feeling. I used to tell my therapist that I woke up with an empty feeling in my stomach every single day, and that started when I went on medication. That wasn't a life consequence. That was a consequence of being on pharmaceutical medication. And also because you're telling yourself— and I'll get back to my coping mechanisms in a second, but I just want to touch on this— you're telling yourself every time you take a pill, right, that I'm taking this to help myself. I'm taking this to help myself. And so when you take it and every time it doesn't help, you start to get really discouraged and you start to think you're even worse than you are. And you know, that's how I went from being on 1 pill to being on 14 pills. But before we get there, my coping mechanisms as a kid were reading. And for anyone watching the video, my bookshelf behind me, you know, everyone, I organize my bookshelves by color, not because I'm super anal, which I am too, but—

Me too. Mine are organized by color.

Yeah. But the reasoning is because I've read all these books. And I know them by what color their covers are because they've been in my hands for days at a time. Right. So I read a lot as a kid. I taught myself to read. My mom wasn't a very present parent. She's a great person. She has a wonderful heart, but she was fighting a lot of addictions. She wasn't a very present parent. She wasn't sitting around reading me books or teaching me how to read. I taught myself how to read. I still don't really know how. You know, I got into— when my grandparents got custody of me, I did my first musical theater show when I was 7 and I was awful. Like I'd never sang before in my life. But I really enjoyed it. And my grandmother asked me, we sat at the table one morning for breakfast and she asked me, you know, did you really like doing the show? And luckily the first show we did, which was The Sound of Music, is one of her favorite shows ever. So she's just like stoked that I'm doing musical theater.

Aw.

And I said, yeah, I really enjoyed it, but I'm really sad because like, I'm not that good, you know? And she's like, well, would you want to go to voice lessons? And I don't even know how she knew about voice lessons. Like, honestly, I wouldn't. And I was like, yeah. So every like 3 days a week, she would give me a $20 bill and I would walk 5 blocks to my voice teacher's house. And for an hour I would take voice lessons. And then next, I started that in the summer, right after the first show ended. And by the next summer, when we auditioned for the next show, I was 8 years old. It was a community theater show. So the whole community, including adults, were auditioning and I got a lead.

Wow.

At 8 years old. And it just taught me that if you work really hard in a really short period of time, and it wasn't even the like getting the lead part or whatever, the most satisfying part to me. And I just shared this on the podcast that I just recorded with Tim's story, 'cause he has a really similar story when he was 7 too, that helped shape him and his idea of hard work. But what that taught me, it was the moment where I auditioned and everyone, you know, it's a close-knit community when you do theater or music, and it's going to be the same people from the year before, maybe 5 or 10 different new people. And everyone's face when I sang, it still looks like that. It's like, that was the moment that I was like, every time I sing, I want people's faces to look like this. Like everyone was so impressed and so—

Wow.

just didn't expect it because I knew what I sounded like a year before. And it just taught me so much about grace and hard work and, you know, how much can change in a really short period of time when you put in the work and what that gets you. And so my coping mechanisms were the arts, were singing, acting, reading, writing, drawing. And I played soccer as a kid. I did swim team, like anything that got me out of the house. I loved nature. I was always like, climbing trees, out in dirt. And those are the things that really helped. I would say Oprah's show really helped me too. Tony Robbins' books that I read. I read Awaken the Giant Within for the first time when I was 7, which I still have.

Really?

Yep. And I used to listen to Tony's cassettes when I was a kid too, on repeat when I came home from school. And so in a world where everyone else, you know, I went to school with 10 other kids, so no one else was really going through what I was going through. No one's parents were even divorced. All the kids were white. Nobody looked like me. No one was going through anything that I was going through. And in a world where I felt really isolated, Oprah and Toni were like these voices that were like, hey, not only can things get better, but here are examples of people who like are in really fucked up situations where things have gotten way, way better. And so that really helped me to learn that life is what you make it. It's not what's handed to you.

Uh-huh. It really sounds like it helped you shift your perspective and believe in endless possibilities.

100%.

And there's something that I really love about you is that you can see that you are a hard worker and determined and you persevere, but also that you really practice what you preach. Because I love watching your stories on Instagram and it resonates with me. so much because of your stories, like out in nature and stuff, because I always say nature heals too. That's always been my place where I connect with my higher power, where I've, I have felt connected, where before I didn't really feel as connect, you know, I didn't feel connected when I was home. When I was a kid, Yeah. I felt always a little different going to church, but nature, I felt like, ah, yeah, no, I'm connected, you know, and connected. To my higher power. I can connect into my heart and have a moment of pause and listen to what it is that I really— what my intuition is. What would you suggest to someone who has a hard time listening to their intuition? I mean, for— or I, I like to say listen to your gut. Uh, I don't know if it's the same thing, but for a long time I didn't trust my own gut, like my gut, because I had learned not to, you know, when I was being sexually abused and I was like, this is not right. This is wrong. And they're like, no, this is right. And I'm like, this is right. So I learned not to trust. What would you suggest to someone who has gone through a rough time and they feel like they can't trust their intuition or listen to their gut? Is there something that you do that really helps you tune into that?

I, I love this question. And I think we as women, we've all been told that in some way, shape or form. It's something that we know intuitively is wrong. It's normally by men, right? Something that we know intuitively is wrong is right, or the other way around where we know something is right and someone's doing something wrong around us. And we just, you know, we're watching adults be less than themselves. So my first book, Cured by Nature, is sort of all about that whole journey of, you know, why I spend every day in nature now and how much that's healed me and how that journey started. My second book, Wild Habits, wild is an acronym.

And I know I want you to walk us through the wild, girl. I love it. I love it. I'm like, that's like one of my next questions is walk us through the wild.

It is so good. It's all right. Well, we'll start with intuition and then we'll— I'll double back and explain why intuition too is so important. But so we'll start with intuition. So the I in wild is for intuition. And I think it's something that is a lifelong journey. So it's not going to be this moment where you're like, oh, I'm 100% Able to listen to my intuition all the time, and I'm never wrong. And although I've had moments and months where it just feels like there's like this buildup where I'm just like being shown all these wonderful things, but I think that's a consequence of putting in the work and really listening to yourself. And I give many great examples and exercises in my book, but I think one of my favorite ones is to, like you just mentioned, take that time, be quiet, be in nature. We're so afraid of Quiet, of listening to ourselves, of just like chilling. Like, I was on a hike with my dogs the other day, and I'm hiking and it's beautiful and it's quiet. And, you know, we're up like thousands of feet and we've been hiking for an hour and a half, and someone's coming down and they're blasting music on a Bluetooth from their phone, like blasting it.

Mm-hmm.

And we're in a canyon, it's like reverberating throughout the whole canyon. And I'm just like, And there's other— I mean, it's a weekend, other people are walking. And I was just like, I mean, I try not to get annoyed or anything. But I'm just like, wow, what a— what an unconscious way to live, to not recognize that like everyone is out here for the peace and quiet, not to like listen to what's on your playlist today. If I wanted to listen to what was on your playlist today, that's what I would be doing.

Right.

And I think that even when I'm at the beach and I, I go from, you know, walking there and having my headphones in, the moment I get there, I always remember, oh yeah, I can take my headphones off. I'm here for the sounds of the beach. I'm here for this walk in nature and to remember to be present because that presence— I truly believe that intuition is our direct messages from God. I do. And without that, I mean, there's a reason that every temple, church, mosque has the element of prayer, which is shut the hell up for a moment and listen to God. Ask some things if you want to. But I think the biggest part of prayer for me and meditation that's been so healing is the listening aspect.

Mm-hmm.

And then you can hear what's in your heart and the guidance of your gut because there's no one else telling you that's wrong. That's not what we're going to do today. Or, you know, let's go this way when you know you want to go that way. You need that silence. And listen, I grew up in New York City. I grew up in Queens. Like, I don't feel like I had the opportunity to listen to my intuition until I moved out to California and started to spend time in nature and started to have these aha moments of realizing Even realizing things like, holy crap, I have spent my whole life looking up because I had to look up at these like tall buildings. Like there's no landscape view in New York City. There isn't. So when I was driving out to California and all of a sudden my eyes started adjusting to seeing these vast landscapes, I'm like, it's like being on another planet. It's like being in a whole new world. And you realize if my eyes and my brain are not even used to seeing nature like this, what else have I been depriving myself of? And it is the intuition aspect. It's why I was making so many wrong moves when I lived in New York, because I wasn't giving myself the time to be quiet.

Well, you know, when I was in New York to launch my book, and the energy there is like— I could just— it was like this intense energy. And I was there for 3 days, and I was grateful for that energy because I was doing like— I didn't hardly leave the hotel room. My husband would come in, throw some food in there, and leave. And they would go sightsee because I was doing back-to-back like radio interviews to promote the book. But the energy was insane. And we went out for a walk and I was looking for grass. And I was like, there's no grass. Where's the flowers? Where's the grass?

And the trees that are there have fences around them.

Yeah.

You can't even touch the trees or like be in the trees. Yeah. Yeah.

And so it was really, it is It's like a different planet. I mean, it was fun to visit, but I don't think I could, I could live there.

Girl, I spent 25 years there. I didn't leave till I was 25 years old. So to grow up there and to not really have any— go to school there. I mean, I went to college in Vermont for 2 years, and then I came right back and went to college in New York. And to have that experience of always being in that energy, and everyone around you always being high-strung.

And yeah, it's very high-strung.

Very high-strung.

It is.

And pushy. And And self— people are self-centered out there. And there is this wonderful culture of, hey, you can just meet people on the street and go hang out with them. And there is this weird element of everyone kind of trusts each other because it is just a 12-mile island where everyone's hanging out. But there is definitely this energy of rat race, and I will climb on top of you to get where I need to go. Even your friends, even your family, where you're like, can we not? Can we just all be nice to each other? No, nobody wants to be nice. Okay, I'm gonna move to California. Bye. Yeah.

Well, then I don't know if you've been to Texas, but Texas is like way laid back. Yeah, it's a culture shock when I go back to my hometown, the small town, and you walk into a store and they're really slow and they're taking their time and they're really nice and they mean it.

Uh-huh. Oh, I had such a culture shock on my drive out here because I road tripped out to California to move out here. So I went through Texas. I went through the like, I, the Ohio, Iowa way, and then down through Texas and Arizona and New Mexico. And oh wow, yeah, when I first went to Oklahoma, I first went to Texas, and I, you know, I went to breakfast at 8 o'clock in the morning in Texas. I'll never forget. And I was the only person who wasn't drinking beer. And I was like, what is going on? And then, and then I ordered breakfast and it took so long to come, especially just being in New York, what, 4 days before, right? And it took like 35 minutes for us to get like toast And yeah, and I was like, what? I mean, everyone here would be fired if they— yes, 35 minutes to get me toast in New York, like, especially because no one's doing anything. Yeah, yeah, it's a different drunk guy over there.

Like, it's a, it's a different world. It really is.

It's a different world. I appreciated it though, and it really, it helped me. And I actually moved out here, um, well, I did the road trip out here with my bandmate at the time who was from Ohio. And so I'd already have, for the first time, had my experiences with people who lived in the Midwest And people who kind of lived in the South. And I was like, whoa, it was what inspired me to want to move out here.

Good to know there are different places.

You live and you learn.

To go back to a little bit of your story, just something that I'm blown away is here you grew up with the circumstances that you had, living in an addict, seeing your mom overdose, the custody battle, or just going to live with your grandmother, all these things. And you went to college.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Taught yourself to read.

Yeah.

You searched in how to like better yourself, better your life. And a lot of this season, we're— that one of the reasons I was so excited to have you on is because this season I'm really talking about mind, body, and spirit transformations. And I love that you talk so much about it starts in your mind. It's a mind transformation. It's like a mindset that you have to really focus on mastering. But you also healed your body with nature. At one point you were on, I don't know, like 11 prescription medications or something?

14.

14. I was on 11.

Oh wow.

That's— I thought we were on the same. And I quit cold turkey too.

Yep.

And they flipped out. They were like, you could have had seizures. I can't believe you didn't have a seizure. And you Because I was on anti-seizure medication for my nerve disease, all this stuff. And so the first part of WILD is for willingness, right?

Willingness. Yeah, yeah. We need to be willing to recognize what's not working.

That's so powerful.

Period. And it's like, period, you know? Then the next step is intuition. Well, okay, what do we do from there? Well, we use our intuition to figure out, okay, well, if that's not working Where do we go from here?

Well, that willingness I think is the key to transformation. Well, the acceptance. You're like a willingness to look at what's not going on. That's sometimes easier said than done. Look, I was in denial for a long time about my— the nerve disease I was diagnosed with. I was like, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm proving these doctors wrong. And then And then when I tried to self-medicate with alcohol, then all of a sudden, I was like, thought I was so different from the alcoholics that are in my family.

Yeah.

I'm like, no, it's it. I am just the same. But luckily, I was like, oh, I got to take a look at this.

Yeah.

This is not what I want more out of life. I can see where this is taking me.

Yeah.

I see where it's taken my brothers. I don't want to go there. And so it's that willingness. But I think that comes, for me, for— I was desperate. I was really desperate. And there's a gift in the desperation I feel like.

There totally is. But I don't feel like everybody has to get to that point to change. And also think about how much more desperate it could have gotten. Like you have a nerve disease and you're self-medicating with alcohol, which is the worst possible thing for your body. Your nerves, your inflammation, your brain, your recovery, like everything, you know, you're just, you're fucking up your body's ability to heal you and disconnecting the connection with God. Yes.

That's what it did.

I mean, that's why they're called spirits, right? Is because they enter you and they create that disconnection with the real, the only spirit you need to be talking to, which is God.

Yeah.

No, I firmly believe that. And listen, I'm not, I'm not anti-alcohol. I understand its medicinal use, but I also think that as a whole, it has done more harm than good. And I would much rather, like, my kids, my friends, my mom, my loved ones smoke a joint over drink a glass of vodka any day.

So yeah, I, I agree. I mean, I think it's a slippery slope, you know. Yeah, it— and it snuck on up on me quick. Yeah, I mean, like, holy cow.

Yep.

I remember thinking, oh, I This isn't the healthiest thing, but if it's numbing out the pain for a little while, then I'll just do it.

Right.

And it went from that to being dependent on it real quick.

Oh yeah.

And, um, so that willingness, I was like, okay, I'm willing to do anything it takes to stop and to get my life back. And I think that's key. So I love that about wild. Yeah. And the intuition. I think once you're willing, then you, uh, you can start to listen to your intuition.

Yeah.

Tell us about the next part of WILD.

Yeah, so it's love. It's the self-acceptance. It's the showing love for yourself first and then showing love for everyone and everything else around you, even when your circumstances are not the best. Because that resentment that we carry, whether that's for our parents or somebody who we feel like has done us wrong or something that we feel like has held us back, that lack of love and that resentment, that holds us back more than anything. That's a poison. That cuts our rate of survival, that cuts our rate of doing anything important with our lives. We have to show that love. Does that mean forgive and forget everything in your life? Absolutely not. I would never say that's not healthy either. But I think the— it's sort of a— it's a sovereignty aspect of being willing to recognize that I'm going to take responsibility for everything in my life, including the people that I allow into it. And so if someone is pissing me off or hurting my life or, you know, making things more difficult, you know what, it's my job to set boundaries so that I can live in love and use my willingness and the intuition that I've gathered and the self-love that I've created to take the next step, whatever that is. This is, you know, this is sort of a blanket 4-step process to whatever you're trying to get over. And then the next The next step is discipline and it's not a sexy word. It's the least sexy word in the self-help language for sure, because we want the easy way and this is the easy way. The easy way is to be disciplined about the first 3 steps: be willing, use your intuition, show love every single day and if you're disciplined about that, I promise you, you will level up in life and accomplish what you're here to do.

You are exactly right and you know, the love part, so we don't get resentful, I mean resentment Resentment is the number one reason why alcoholics go out and start drinking again is because of resentment.

100%.

Resentment.

I can tell you from having a mother as an alcoholic, from going to Al-Anon meetings, from, you know, when you have an alcoholic in your family, their friends tend to be alcoholics whether they're recovering or not, right? And so knowing a lot of people who are alcoholics, you tend to hear these self-pity stories repeated because they're living in this resentment or this sadness or this depression about something that happened in the past that they can't get over. And when people ask me, and it is a bold question, and I think this is a pretty bold answer, like, you know, how you get over alcoholism, etc., it's to serve. It's to take the focus off yourself. Because the only reason that most alcoholics reach for a bottle is because they've gotten to a point where they want to numb something. If you've gotten to a point where you want to numb something, whether that's pain and whether that pain is physical or metaphysical, then you're not focused on the right things, which is Giving back, helping, using yourself as a vessel of service rather than focusing on, you know, some shit that happened to you 20 years ago.

Exactly, and that's a great way to help keep you sober, not just to be a better person, but if anybody, you know, is struggling, I always say, what have you done for somebody? Who have you called? What is your focus on? What are What are you paying attention to? Who are you surrounding yourself with? Yeah. And that, I love what you talked about the boundaries, because if you don't have healthy boundaries, that causes resentment.

Oh, for sure.

I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've been like, yeah, I'll do that. And then I'm resentful that I did it. So now I'm like, oh, you really want me to do what? And I'm like, okay. And then I start getting resentful. It's like, no, I have to know like my self-worth and love myself enough to have some healthy boundaries, or I'm just gonna pay for it later with a resentment.

Right, right. Or do things out of love. Like, I know, you know, this, this used to come up in my marriage a lot where I would feel like, oh my God, I'm doing this for him. I'm not really doing it because I want to do it. And I either need to change that mentality and start, uh, You know, doing the dishes for myself, or we're gonna have a problem because I'm really starting to resent the fact that I'm doing— I feel like I'm doing the dishes for him.

Oh, and that goes for anything and everything in a marriage, from dishes to—

Dishes were one example. That was, that was a universal example, but you know what I mean.

Gotcha. Yeah, yep, yeah, it's so, it's so true. So yeah, I think that, that practicing, you know, self-love— and that was hard Yep. For me to have some self-love. And I think the only way that I learned to do it is just a little bit every day. Just a little bit. Doing a little something for myself every day. Exercising a little every day. Deciding to eat healthier every day. And that takes discipline, which is the D in WILD. I'm telling you, I love this acronym. I'm going to use it all the time. I'm going to send people your way to to listen to it because I think it does. It— we have to take radical action, wild action to make changes. And so, and that discipline is what allows us to have the life that we want. It's a lot. It allows us the freedom. And I know discipline sounds kind of harsh to some people, but when we're disciplined, it gives us freedom.

Yes.

We make healthier choices. We develop habits You know, that, that make our lives better. You know, my, my morning ritual every morning is like, whoo, that saves me. I would not be— I might not be as nice of a mom or wife, a person. I wouldn't be as grounded. So, you know, that morning ritual does take discipline to start into the getting into that habit of doing it.

Totally.

But it makes all the difference.

The thing is, if you're listening to this or you've gotten to the point of reading one of my books or you're on medication or you're trying to get off medication or wherever you are in your health journey, you want more control, right? Like that's what we all— we all are seeking more control. That's why you reach for a bottle of alcohol. That's why you reach for a pill. That's why you go to the doctor. That's why you open up a self-help book. You want more control and the best, easiest, most simple, free way to get control in life is to be disciplined. Because the more discipline you have in life, the more control. And that's not control in a bad way where you feel like you have to control everything. It's your life has more ease and more flow because you know what to expect. You have a routine, you have a mindset that you carry with you into every situation, regardless of what that situation is, where you know, I'm going to be fine. I'm going to be okay in the end of this because I have conditioned my mindset, my body, my physical and metaphysical to show up in a certain way that it doesn't really matter what the setting is, I'm gonna be fine. And that comes from discipline. And that feeling of control, that feeling of really knowing yourself, comes from self-discipline. And I don't know any other way to get it. I truly don't. There's no shortcut.

There are no shortcuts, and it takes time. I mean, I was a mess for a long time. Oh yeah, that's such a Oh, I mean, I'm still a mess a lot of times.

Oh girl.

But I mean—

I feel you.

You know, but I mean, I know that I can get that grounded feeling. I know I have the tools to get out of the mess.

Yeah. And I'll— I totally feel you. And I'll share something that, you know, I haven't talked about. I have touched on my marriage. I should probably also touch on the fact that I'm going through a divorce, which I haven't talked about in any other podcast yet, not even my own, although I may have by the time this comes out. But I will say that the reason that I bring this up is because right now I'm like the happiest I've ever been in my life in that I'm like, I'm living in my sovereignty, right? I had to figure out a lot of things to even get to the point of saying, okay, I'll get a divorce, which is not something that I ever wanted, especially not a little over a year after getting married. Was not the plan. Oh, that's right.

You've only— I remember when you got married is when I first met you.

Yeah, yeah, we did.

That's one.

I know. So it was super crazy because it was clearly not, you know, I didn't— I'm not trying to, you know, file for— I would have done anything. I literally would have done anything. But it takes two. And I say all of this to say that like, you can be going through like, what do they say is like the 5 worst things you ever go through in life is like death, divorce, moving, moving, like, okay. So going through one of like the 5 worst things I'll ever go through in life right But through that, I cannot even tell you, and even just the last few weeks, the last few months, how much support and love I have brought into my life from accepting that experience and going through that experience and not resisting it, not pushing it down, not drink— I mean, I stopped drinking because I was like, I don't want to do anything in this period of my life that's going to feel like a cover-up. up because if I don't go through this now, God forbid 6 months from now I realize, shit, I didn't go through this. I got to go through this now, you know, because in California there's a 6-month waiting period. So I'm like, I don't want the day I get an email or a letter telling me my divorce has gone through to be the day that I start processing this. Yeah, I need to start processing this right now.

Well, that's really smart that you want to— that you're doing that and very courageous and bold that you're stepping through that, and thank you for sharing that. I mean, I've been divorced twice. Oh wow, this is my third marriage. Oh wow, I started young. I've been divorced twice. And so when I met—

I hope you divorced that guy that said that shitty thing about when you got pregnant. But maybe not. Maybe that's who you're still married to. I'll smack him one day, whoever the hell he is.

Um, I met him and I was like, oh no, he was going through a divorce and he didn't have his papers yet. And I said, you know what, you wait. I'll wait till you get your pay— your divorce papers, because it might feel totally different to you. And then you come knocking on my door, maybe I'll go out with you.

Yeah.

But it's good. It's very smart that you are going through this process like clear-headed and with an open spirit, because It was a little bit different. Like when I got the actual papers, I was like, oh wow, it just feels different.

It does feel different. Here's what— here's the beautiful thing that God did to me and my ex-husband. We filed, we got sent the papers back because something supposedly wasn't filled out that actually was filled out. So we drove them back together and we dropped them back off. Wow. And they got sent back to us again, uh, like 2 months later. So we finally just hired— because we were just trying to do it without lawyers and just be whatever. So we finally hired a lawyer and had the lawyer submit it and do it. And which, P.S., anyone listening should just spend the money and hire a lawyer, have a lawyer file your divorce papers. But it was, it was like God gave me that moment of like, here's what it's gonna feel like when you get them back. Oh, that is already—

wow. Like, are you sure?

Because yes, are you sure? Because still the state of California, as far— yeah, you guys are separated, but they, as far as they are concerned, you're still married because they didn't get your paperwork. And we both got to a point where we were like, okay, we are meeting this resistance. I mean, luckily we have a consciousness relationship where we could still have these conversations throughout the process.

We're like, thank goodness.

Thank goodness. Obviously we're meeting this resistance because we're trying to do everything ourselves, which was a lot of, you know, what ended up coming up in our marriage too, is like, we're trying to do everything ourselves without anyone's help. And that's not always good. You don't have, especially because we got married so quickly, you don't have everything figured out, right? You need help and support of experts, other people, family, et cetera, which is a lesson that I've very, very sternly learned. But I think it's, we just learned like, hey, accept help. And hey, if that's the last lesson we got to learn together, I feel like that that summed up like the lesson that we needed to learn our whole marriage, which was like, accept help. You guys can't do everything yourselves. And yes, it was also like, what, why do I keep meeting this resistance? Well, I keep meeting this resistance because I'm trying to do it all.

Yeah.

Do it all. And the moment that we gave it up to someone else, you know, that shit was filed in a week and you're like, great.

And then there you go.

Relief where we felt like we could really start having conversations and break down what happened in the relationship and everything. So I think sometimes it can be this moment of healing release, you know.

But that is such— those words, accept help, is powerful. I mean powerful because I mean I grew up where it was like you don't ask for help. You don't show vulnerability. You just figure it out. You don't want to look stupid or weak or incapable or unworthy. Like those were lesson. That's what I was learning.

And it's like, yep.

No, no, no. I need help. And so I've learned to ask for help. And I remember the first time I went in to buy a laptop was when I was writing my book. I handwrote my whole book. And then I went to buy a laptop to type it up. And I took a class at Apple. I did not know how to work a laptop. I'd spent my whole life on the dance floor and then the gym floor. Now I'm like, I got to figure out technology. I need a laptop. I got to type this. And so I went to Apple and took a free class. And every 5 seconds I was like, yep, got another question. Yep, question. Like, yep, question. And he was like, wow, uh, I just have to say, like, I've never had someone who was so, you know, asked so many questions that wasn't embarrassed To ask so many questions. People are always afraid that— to look stupid. And I'm like, I don't care how I look, I need to learn this shit.

Yeah, yeah. So I love that.

I, I need to learn it. I, I need help. And so I think, you know, it's important that, you know, you have a coach or a sponsor or a mentor or somebody that you trust or friends that you look up to Uh, that you can ask for help. I mean, our friend Henry, yeah, who I love, uh, I— when I wanted to do my podcast, I'd wanted to do it for a while, and, um, he came over to the house to, to record me for his podcast, and I was like, yeah, I just don't know how to work the speakers or the mic, or— he had these fancy gadgets he brought with him. He's like, here, this— just order this this. And like, he— I took a picture of it. He's like, you know, then you can have somebody edit it. Like, he really gave me the help and encouragement I needed. And so if you don't ask, you're not going to learn. And so—

Right.

Just whatever you're going through, whether it's like you said, getting a divorce, or you're getting sober, or quitting pills, or you're accelerating your business, You ask Gary Vee for help about what to do for your business, and now I want to know: Have you been on TikTok more?

He gave you advice on TikTok now. Thank you, Gary. Holy crap! I mean, Gary didn't get me verified on TikTok, but Gary was the one who literally told me to download TikTok and pivot my business. And not only has it been an incredible creative outlet, but yeah, I mean, I only have a few thousand followers on there, and I'm in.

Wow.

That small little group of people who are verified on there. And it happened so quickly because of, you know, I just put time and effort into it in a time where everybody was paying attention to it a few months ago. You know, I love being able to have these conversations with people and just building a brand and a business that's allowed me to accept that help. I mean, how incredible is it that I get to just like email Gary and be like, hey, can we chat about what I should do next? I don't know how I would have gotten through the early stages of my divorce without Henry. Honestly, like, I, I was calling him every day. And because he's been through a divorce as well. And you know, when you're going through it, you call your friends who've been through it. And you're just like, what the fuck are all these feelings? And they're like, okay, here you go. I wish I knew you had been divorced twice. I would have called you immediately. What's happening? How can you hate someone and love someone so much at the same time?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's a lot. And accepting support from friends like Henry. Listen, it's not easy to call your friends and be like, hey, you know that marriage I told you about with that person you really loved and liked and were like family to you? Yeah, we're— it's not gonna work out. Yeah, that's not an easy conversation to have, but cracking those doors open and also choosing who I was sharing this with. Like, honestly, I haven't shared this anywhere other than this podcast with you. I'm going to share it on my own podcast eventually, etc. But like, I think honestly choosing the time that you're comfortable talking about this, you know, I'm no longer in a place where I'm like embarrassed to say I'm not married anymore.

Well, I think that Brené Brown, I think, is who said this originally, was make sure you're sharing from a scar and not an open wound. Like, make sure that you have had time to process it and feel it And make sure you're talking to somebody that you trust and you know that they love you.

Yep.

They love you and they, you know, have your best interest. And I think that's huge.

Yeah.

Gosh, when I got a divorce the second time, none of my clients knew about it. I would go to work and eventually I started to share that, oh yeah, that guy that you like, that he's a funny guy and he's a really nice person. It's not working out for us. I'm getting a divorce. You know, one thing, I didn't want to bring it into my workplace. My work was kind of like, ah, it was my time away from thinking about the divorce.

Yeah.

But, and I wanted to focus on my clients, but, um, I needed to make sure that I was okay before I could talk about it because it's not easy.

No, it's not easy at all. And honestly, you know, even when the holidays just came and I so didn't expect people to be like, oh, you know, Merry Christmas to you and Andrew. And I had to be like, oh, by the way, we're not together anymore. And so, and I think having those conversations helped me be like, okay, it doesn't hurt to say in the way that it hurt to say a few weeks ago or a few months ago, you know, and it's allowed me to feel like, okay, if I'm going to move into the next phase of my life that I know I want to move into, I can't just ignore the fact that this person was my husband for 2 years. People were invested in our relationship, and eventually I have to let people know that that's no longer a part of my life. But that—

But good for you though, for knowing that this isn't working for me. I'm moving on to—

Yeah, it was hard. But you know, I didn't— it wasn't a conclusion that I came to immediately. It's a conclusion that I felt it in the beginning that I was sort of forced into. And now I feel like it's the best thing that could have possibly happened to me. And the cracks in the door of support that I left open in the beginning of this experience when, you know, I first started calling friends like Henry has literally started a floodgate of support in my life that has just been absolutely nonstop. I mean, the day after we separated was the first day that I had my first meeting with my podcast company, who we, you know, have talked about how amazing it is to have a company that supports you, that does basically everything for you, that you just show up and do interviews and they do everything else. I mean, that's just one really small— I mean, they're large, but really like small example of something that came in literally instantly the moment that I made the decision that like, I can't live this way anymore. I can't do this. And that's not to say that, you know, we had like this horrible marriage or everything was bad or whatever, but it just came to a breaking point of realizing that like, I am miserable and we need to spend— we need to separate and spend time apart. And the moment And coming to that conclusion, then having that support come in immediately. And now it's just been, I mean, every single area of my life that I was begging for support when I was married has come in since I've decided to even just get separated, everything. And part of me feels like, well, maybe my marriage was blocking all of that support because I so went into it. My ex-husband and I got married 3 weeks and 2 days after the day we So how long? 3 weeks and 2 days.

Wow.

After the day we met. So, you know, he was always my husband, and I instantly went into this mentality of, I want to be a good wife, I want to be the best wife, I want to do everything for us, I want to do everything for our family, every dollar I make is for us, everything I do is for us. And that took the focus off of the things I was doing that were for me. You know, a marriage is not— as much as it is about building a family and it is about supporting someone else, it's also about making sure that that relationship is supporting you.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm not going to blame the relation— I mean, I allowed myself to fall into this trap of chasing my tail about being a good wife and not chasing my tail about living my dreams.

Wow. But for you to be able to recognize that, is it— and not just to recognize it, but to recognize it and then take action on it.

Yeah, yeah. Either, you know, I think that came from many conversations where I had to hear from him too, hey, this isn't working. You know, it wasn't just, you know, I was actually— I feel like I'm always the one that's like, oh, maybe though we can make it work. And I did have to get to a point where I'm like, you know what, this isn't working. And I can't even make it work. And we can't switch off trying to make it like, if you're going to be married to somebody, it has to work all the time. Yeah.

Do you think that your book was kind of inspired from your marriage? Do you think that— well, I know your first book was kind of the, like your story and your, your why and your transformation. And your next book is, you know, that I can't wait to read. I haven't read your latest book yet. But I can't wait to, to read it. It has inspired me to really focus on getting the outline for my next book out and just freaking writing it because it's like the how.

Yeah.

And so, you know, people ask you all the time how— well, how'd you get through all that? And this is your book of this is how you do it.

This is how.

Yeah. So y'all check out her book, uh, Wild Habits Unlock your mind, improve your health, and release your true power. Do you think that your this book was partly inspired by?

I wrote. I wrote. The book came out before I even met my ex-husband.

Oh, you're kidding!

So it came out in May of 2018, and we met October of 2018. We got married October of 2018, but we didn't get legally married till June of 2019. We like married ourselves.

And I thought the book just came out.

No, it came out in 2018. Yeah. So I'm actually working on my third.

Oh my God, I'm so far behind.

Or how I'm gonna release it. No, you're not far behind.

I'm behind.

No, my— you know what's funny is my, my very good friend Zahara, she— her first book came out about a year after my first book did, and now she— her third book just came out, and I feel like I'm behind. So I'm like, wait, your first book came out a year after mine and you're already on your third? What the hell?

Well, when I wrote my book, my publicist was at the studio. I was on the Today Show Yeah. And after my interview, we went to brunch, and my publicist is with me, and we're sitting there, and I'm like, oh my God, I'm so cool. I got to meet Megyn Kelly and blah. I was like, oh my God, I got through it and I didn't die. It was because I was so scared, you know?

Like, words came out of my mouth. It was great.

I didn't cry. I didn't die. I didn't like— because like, I was able to talk. And she goes, you need to go ahead and start working on your second And I was like, yep, we're— I— my book just launched today and you want me to start working on the second book?

Let's go.

She goes, yep. And I was like, oh. And then it had just been like a roller coaster of just— I had no idea how busy life would get after writing the book. But you seriously, you're— it really inspired me just knowing that it's like, okay, this was how your first book was. was, I'm reading the how-to in your second book and it's inspired me to do more. So yeah, I cannot wait to listen to your podcast that you just—

Thank you.

By the time people hear this episode, it will have just launched. So I'll make sure to put a link to your, wherever people can find you, your podcast, your website, your Instagram, your verified TikTok. Well, you're verified everywhere, but you're now verified on TikTok too. But tell everybody where you'd like them to go to keep in close contact with you and see some of the behind the scenes? Awesome.

I love that. Yeah, follow me on Instagram at Tara A. Mackey for sure. I share stories on there every day. And then there's links to my newsletter and, you know, other ways you can keep up. And then if you want to listen to the podcast, just type in my name or Bold and Brilliant, and it'll come up anywhere podcasts are streamed. If you want to hear my music, I'm on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube. Where else am I?

And she has a voice of an angel. Yeah, YouTube, you can watch the videos, the music videos. Y'all check that out.

Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate that. And, um, yeah, just Google me. I'm around. I've done some things. I've talked to some people. Yeah, yeah, you have.

So thank you so much for sharing your, your heart and soul and your transformational journey and, and Just for being you. I just love you. Thank you so much.

I love you too, Amberlynn. Thank you so much for having me on. I really, really appreciate you, and I'm so excited for everything you're doing. And congratulations on the new season of your podcast.

Oh, thanks. Thanks for kicking it off, girl. Couldn't think of anybody better to do it than you.

Yes, score.

Thanks so much for Thank you for joining us this week on True Grit and Grace Podcast. If you like it, please rate it or share it with your friends. That would help too. If you're not yet on the newsletter list, come over to amberlylago.com and jump on it. While you're there, you can grab a free downloadable gratitude journal, and you might just want to check out my book or even check out my monthly motivational membership. Thanks again for tuning in, and we'll see you next week.