How to Become a Remarkable Sales Leader with Ben Ward

Welcome to True Grit and Grace, a podcast designed to empower you to claim your resilience and thrive through life's challenges. I am Amberly Lago, a mindset coach, fitness expert, and bestselling author. Each week, I'll dive deep with the world's brightest thought leaders and elite performers to share tangible tools and practical advice to inspire you to keep your eyes on the prize and forge ahead. So get ready to conquer your fears, heal any trauma, lead with your heart, and elevate your life with grit and grace.

Hello and welcome back to the True Grit and Grace Podcast. I'm Amberly Lago, and today on the show I have one of my really good friends, Ben Ward, here with us. We were in a mastermind together. That's how we first met. And I just love his storytelling most of all. But look, I've got his new book, y'all. He has been for over 20 years coaching people. He's been in sales leadership and executive leadership training and development. He's a sought-after keynote speaker, but like I said, mostly I love your storytelling. And you have this book that has been— it's already a bestseller that you've written with Greg Reed. And I am blown away. Les Brown is shouting out your book. You've got a foreword by Brian Tracy. And I'm just so happy for you about your book. So I have so many questions for you, but Welcome to the show. Thank you for being here, Ben. You rock. And I cannot wait. I've got a whole list of questions that I'm wanting to ask you that I need to learn. And I know my audience will love learning from you too. So welcome to the show.

Thank you, Amberly. Such an honor to be here with you.

Oh yeah. I loved all you shared in our mastermind. And you are such an incredible storyteller. And then on Clubhouse, you came into one of my rooms and after you spoke, I don't know if you know this, but I had so many people quoting what you said about how to get rid of limiting beliefs.

Oh, my goodness. No, that is amazing.

I am not kidding you. I am not kidding you. You, first of all, I would love for you to share about that, about limiting beliefs, what you do when you have those limiting beliefs. There is something that you do that helps you get out of that. Could you share that with us?

Yeah. You know, one of the things that I learned early on when I was out knocking doors is that these thoughts are going to come to our brains and they are going to hit us in the head. One thing I learned is that, wait a minute, like, I don't like that thought. That is not like, I don't feel like that comes from me, or at least I hope it doesn't. Or if it does, I don't want it to. So, I developed this little mantra and it is so simple, but it has been really powerful. In fact, if I, I will have to show you sometime if I can find it while I am talking, but my kids, I have taught this to my kids and it has been such a simple little tool. I want to offer it to you right now, those that are watching, and thank you, Amberly, for bringing that up. So, it is these 4 words, I reject that thought. So, I learned that, like, when I started having a thought that I am like, wait a minute, I am like, no. No, like, no, I reject that thought. And so I started, we started, I told my kids, I was like, if you have this thought, and we talked about this recently with them, it's like, if you have this thought that doesn't serve you, like, you are not your thoughts and you have the power, your brain and your heart and your mind, you have the power to reject thoughts that don't serve you. So, you want to say it with emotion. If somebody, if you have this bad thought, maybe you're like, oh, that person is so lame. Over there, you were like, wait a minute, I reject that thought. It gives us power to just get rid of those thoughts that we don't want, that don't serve us, that don't serve those around us.

Yeah, well, after you said that, I have had people say, you know, your friend Ben said, I reject that thought. So, so many people have been doing that. I love that you share that. You know what? You are such a good dad. I love seeing your posts on Instagram. And your YouTube videos, holy cow, you've been every week delivering some incredible message about leadership and sales on YouTube. And your YouTube channel is really growing, which I think is hard to do because I've had a YouTube channel for a while and it's a little bit harder to gain that traction, but you offer such value that people are just like, eating it up. And so I would love to ask you, how did you get into leadership and sales? Can you take it, take us through that journey a little bit on how you became the expert in leadership and sales? Because I think that we could all learn to, you know, learn how to be a better leader.

Yeah, you know, the thing is, everybody in the front of the line started in the back of the line, like in life, right? If you see somebody up in the front, you're like, oh, they're so far, much farther ahead of me. And I always think anytime I'm like at like Disneyland, even though it's been a year since it's been open, but Disneyland, you like get in the back of the line and you're like, I remember I think often I'm like, oh, I can't wait till I get around this bend. That means I'm almost there. And like the reality is that person who's almost there in line at Disneyland started in the very back of the line. And so the same thing is true in like for any of us is that we may be looking at somebody being like, oh, they're so much farther ahead of me in my work and my business. The reality is, you know, got to start somewhere. For me, I started very in a really like pretty tough place where I just was not making it financially and I had to make a change. There are all of the thoughts of like why you shouldn't start that happen. In fact, I found this little video. Can I share this with you? It is a 3-second. It has to do with what you introduced about rejecting thoughts. This is from my, let's see if this will play, if you can hear this.

I heard it.

Yes.

Oh, my gosh. That is your family.

Yeah, there they are. I taught my kids this.

I am a chicken.

Where we would sit around and we try to every night have just like a little bit of time. And one of the messages was like, how do you, like just the question you just asked, like how do you go from just being who you are, insecure, to overcoming all the opposition in whatever it is? Maybe you have a math test that is coming up and you are like, ah, like I know for me in school, there was all the anxiety, like maybe I am going to fail this, maybe. don't know the future and like how do you succeed in life? And not to go back too much, but just to finish that, like this, the power of allowing your mind to be like, no, like I reject that thought. I had my little girl and this all plays into what it took for me to go from being the very worst, almost fired from a straight commission job to becoming the top in my industry and being quoted in Forbes and Inc. and Entrepreneur and different things, but these kids right here, my little girl, Emery, she is 6 years old. She came to me the day after we did this and she said, Dad, I was having a test and I kept thinking I am going to fail it and I am going to fail it. She is like, wait a minute. During her test, she is like, wait a minute. She is like, I reject that thought. Then she went in and she like passed her test. She came home and was like, Dad! She told our family. She is like, I rejected the thought and I passed my test. It was awesome. And I just—

Our thoughts are powerful. And I feel like, man, so many times I have got that inner critic that wants to really just beat me up. And it is like, that is a powerful thing to just stop those limiting beliefs right away in that inner critic in a powerful way, just to say, I reject that thought. Like, that is not— and I like how you say it is not who we are. They are just a thought and we can really change things. And so for your daughter to have you as an example and for her to see the power in just how she can shift her thinking like that is amazing. As a leader, you're a leader for your family, you're a leader in your industry. And I love that you share that, you know, we all start somewhere, but it is how do you go from, you know, just starting out and kind of in certain— in uncertain times, or maybe you're new and there's a lot of people right now that have changed jobs and— or they're out of work and they're trying to reinvent themselves. How do you get that self-confidence to become a leader when you're just starting out?

I think my mentor, Brian Tracy, said it best about 15 years ago, I asked him that question, which is like, Brian, you know, how do you break through? Like, you have done it. Like, you have broken through. How do I? I remember I was dropping him off. He came to speak at one of our events, one of our Leadership Trainings, and I had the great privilege of having dinner with him and I took him back to his hotel, dropped him off up towards the front. But before he did, I looked at him. I said, Brian, I'd like— you've written 80 bestselling books, you've taught and spoken all over the world. I'm sure you get this question asked, but what's the one thing that, that like, if somebody is willing to apply, that if they take that action around XYZ, around this thing, what is it that you found? And he looked at me in the eye, I'll never forget, and he said, Ben, there's 2. And I was like, I'm like getting ready to like, I'm like looking for a pen, but I didn't have one. I'm like looking for mental, like, okay, I gotta like etch whatever he's gonna say in my brain. And he said, there's 2. He said, the first thing, he said, you know, for you to get to where you wanna go, if you wanna ensure success, he said, the first thing is continuously learn. And I mean, that's like, that's not rocket science formula. Like, and I was just like, I'm like listening, but here's this great mentor. And it brought like this added emphasis to this to me in my brain. And somehow, like my parents were telling me all the time, oh, you always learn. You know? But like somehow coming from my mentor, that like this is one of like the things, I don't know how to describe it, but it just like connected the synapses in my brain. And it was just like, oh, if I want to become good at something, whatever that thing is, Commit to take action, to learn day upon day, compound upon compound, learn continuously in that thing. And you can't not end up succeeding when you commit to continuous learning.

Yeah. And I think that goes for anything you do. I mean, you know, I have been in the fitness industry for, gosh, almost 20, 25 years. And Back when I was training clients all the time, just that's all I did was just train clients. I continued. You you had to get a certain amount of CEUs to keep your certification, and there are a lot of trainers that didn't do that. They didn't go to the conferences. They didn't take you know study and take exams, and I you know they just didn't keep up their certification. For me, I wanted to continue to learn, and I would always come back to the gym. With brand new pieces of equipment. I remember I was the first trainer to walk into the gym with a kettlebell and people were looking at me like, what the hell is that? And I was doing kettlebell swings and stuff, but I wanted to be like sharp and learning and on, on like, what is the latest and the greatest thing that I can learn? Because it keeps you fresh. And if it keeps you from getting bored too, doing the same old thing. And if you're getting bored, can you imagine what your clients are So I wanted to continue learning so I could also keep my clients continue learning. And it's always, you know, we, I think, are more passionate, we're more curious, we're, you know, when we're continuing to learn. So I love that he said continue learning. And I think that's important no matter what you do, whether you're a stay-at-home mom or you have a business or you're a trainer or you're a speaker or you're an author, whatever it is that you do, I think that's so important. So, that is it. Number 1 is learning and what else?

Yeah, I love that, Amberly. Yeah, and so the other thing he said was, don't quit. He went on to just share a little insight that I will just, I am so grateful for. He just said, you know, here is the thing. If you continuously learn and you are committed to that and you don't quit, you put those 2 things together, And, you know, you're gonna have to pivot in your life. There's gonna be things that you're gonna need to pivot on, and that's okay. But if you commit to not quit, like, make sure— he said this to me, he's like, make sure that your ladder— and he says this in his books and stuff— he's like, make sure your ladder is leaning on a strong wall with, with a good foundation, and just keep climbing that ladder. Don't quit. When you want to, Don't and keep moving towards your dreams. Again, pivot as you need to. Maybe one door closes for you. Maybe a company you are working with goes out of business. Maybe whatever you can't anticipate in the future. But if you just keep learning and don't quit, that right there will ensure that you make it up towards the top of whatever it is that you are pursuing.

Wow. Now, tell me a little bit about Brian Tracy. How did you meet him? Because he is, like you said, written so many books.

How did you meet him and start mentoring So I, he's been training sales leaders for decades. I got very lucky to work in a company where they brought Brian Tracy in. And I happened to be the number one sales, the sales leader at that company called First Line Security. And I was just a punk, young, early 20s. And I did door-to-door sales and I did that for 5 years and I built a I built a region. I built and I became the VP of a regional area in America, and I was the top earner. And so I got the great fortune of connecting with Brian in a really unique way. And then we also— so I took him out to dinner with the owners of the company, and I got to drive him home afterwards. And then he's— Brian is— he came to one of our mastermind events that we had with a really small group. of people. And if I, I have a little picture I can show you, but I have to find it. But it's with Brian, me and Brian, and maybe 10 or 15 other of the top people. And so I had that early introduction with him. And in fact, that's where the idea for my book actually was planted that day at a mastermind group in Oakley, Utah. We like rented out a cabin. And he came and spoke with us and he shared with us, he said, you know, being good at sales and being good at leadership, like being good at personally selling and being good at helping other people to sell are 2 totally different skill sets.

Mm-hmm.

And when he said that, I was just like, yeah, that's true. Like I've seen that for myself as my personal self learning to sell and being, getting better at sales. And then transitioning into helping other people was like a real struggle. And I also saw that was true for the people that I was leading. As I was growing, I would hire leaders and managers to run teams, and I found it was a big struggle. And so, from that time till now, like 15 years later from that time he planted that seed, I have spent my career helping and working with and finding solutions to help people that are highly skilled professionally themselves, help them make that transition into leadership. And that is why, that is why we asked Brian to write all that. Yeah.

OK, well, I want to go back to the basics.

Yeah.

What first, before you can, you know, be great and a leader and leading teams to be great in sales? How does someone start to be good in sales if they're just starting? How do you— what do you think makes them a great salesperson? Do you even like that word salesperson? I don't know, a lot of people don't like, oh, they're selling me something, you know what I mean? So what makes someone great at sales?

You know, I— there's— there was a time I mean, so like the used car salesman gives sales a bad reputation.

Yeah, yeah.

And even like pushy door-to-door salespeople give sales a bad reputation. And what changed my mindset with sales was a true understanding of even what the word sales actually means. And this blew my mind when I learned this, which is The word sale actually comes from the Old English word sellan. And so, S-E-L-L-A-N. It is an Old English—

I saw that in your book. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, the word sellan actually directly translates means to give. So, it is like the question, yeah, the question becomes, what is the focus of the give? Is the focus on yourself? Is the focus to give yourself like whatever it is that you is it the commission? Like are we walking around with commission breath, right? And or is the focus of the give? This this is what differentiates a salesperson like a sleazy slimy salesperson to a professional. Like a a real salesperson connects people with things that are valuable to them and helps them. to be able to move forward with more value in their life. And so the focus of the give, if we focus on ourselves, I mean, that, that's what gives sales a bad reputation. But if our focus is to give, so, salam.

Mm-hmm.

To give them what they, what they need, what they want, what they're looking for, and to help people get what they want. If that's the focus, sales becomes one of the most amazing and like beautiful and fulfilling opportunities to help people like meet needs in their life that will make their lives better.

Yeah.

You know what?

That makes so much sense. And in fact, just, I mean just recently, because like for my fitness business, I never really had to sell. I really just had clients from you know, word of mouth from walking into the gym and seeing me working. And then they would come up and ask me to train them. So I never really felt like I had to like sell packages of training sessions or anything like that. So I never really thought of myself as a salesperson. So just recently, um, I'm about to launch, haven't even launched it yet, but the, my mastermind, which I've been working on for a long time, a long time. And as you know, I mean, uh, got certified through the Mastermind Association. I've got my paddles. I'm ready to go. I've got my 45-page workbook that comes along with it. And something really shifted in me with the selling because I thought of it as in, in the people that are a right fit for it, they're just like, I haven't even launched it and they're coming in and I'm looking at it as, Oh my gosh, this is going to be such a perfect fit for you because I have all these things that are going to help this person become that motivational speaker that they want to be, or that author that they want to be through all these experiences and other speakers that are coming into the mastermind. And something shifted and I didn't feel like I'm selling them like this big package or this big thing. I looked at it as, oh my gosh, I have so much to give this person and it's going to help them. It's going to empower them. It's going to connect them with the people that they need to be connected with. And it just really shifted in me. So everything that you shared makes so much sense. And what a difference when you're looking at it from a perspective of what you're giving versus what you're getting. I think that does make the difference in what makes someone a sleazy salesperson and what it feels sleazy, or if it's really— they're genuinely trying to, you know, they've got something to offer that person. So I love that. It makes such sense. So, but how do you— let's say we've got somebody that They have a coaching practice and they are trying to transition and sell coaching online. They're selling a course and they're getting on a call with someone and they really want to be great at their job. What is one thing that you could give me right now or give the listener right now, something that they should do so they don't come across as that sleazy salesperson? What's one thing that they can do when they're like, want to sell this big coaching, online coaching? What would they say?

Yeah, I would say the first thing you have to ask yourself, do you feel like this coaching would and will add value to that person? And do you feel like— if you feel like— you have to ask yourself, would I be doing a disservice to them if they didn't know about this? And if you believe in it to where like, no, this actually really can help them, you've got to like dig deep and just be like, no, this is going to help them. My job is to serve them in a way that communicates with them what it is that I'm doing and not to force them. My job is not to like put them into a corner and like use tactics to close them. That's not my job. And so my job, if you go into this right now today for this coaching program, you're like, okay, would it— would I be doing a disservice if they didn't have this? Like, and the flip side is, by having what I offer, will they become better at their trade? And if, if the answer is yes, they actually will, then you are doing them a disservice by, by shying away and being like, I don't want to sell you. Like, and like We have that responsibility to provide them, present them with how we can help them in a way that is not manipulative, in a way that honors them just by asking them just specific questions, not manipulative leading questions, but just being there to show them the opportunity, allow them a chance, the best chance to feel your enthusiasm. for the value and benefits that this can provide to them. And if you're not willing to do that, you got to look at yourself and be like, man, you got to let your light shine so that other people can benefit from that. And if you're like, yeah.

Well, it sounds like, you know, first of all, you really have to believe in yourself and the product that you're offering. And you really have to be thinking of the other person. It's not about you. It's about who you serve and how you can help them. So I think that it's really— you really have to ask yourself those tough questions like, is this something that'll benefit them? Is your— do you have something good to offer?

You know? Absolutely.

Yeah. Um, well, in the book you have written about— you have 4 laws of leadership. Can you share what the 4 Laws of Leadership are?

Yeah. So, these 4 laws, actually even before I tell you this first one, let me give the framework for these 4 laws. And I don't mean to leave you on a cliff. I will come to that cliff. So, the framework for these 4 laws is it is not enough for you as the leader. So, now we have transitioned into leadership. So, it is not enough for you as a leader to like feel these 4 things or Believe these four things. The framework for how these these laws work, where they actually really propel your your ability to influence and lead somebody, is they have to know. They have to know these four things, and they have to know that you have their best interest at heart. That's the first one. And so it's not enough to be like, oh yeah, I have. I'm a leader, and I lead this person. I have their best interest at heart. The real key, like, for maximum influence with other people is when they believe, when they know that you have their best interest at heart, which is an interesting bridge to cross because most leaders will believe, like, yeah, I've got their best interest. But a lot of times when we've interviewed people that leaders are leading, oftentimes it there is a disconnect where, like, the people themselves are like, no, actually, I don't really feel like they have my best interests at heart. There have been major breakthroughs of like, what? The leader being like, what? Like, of course I do. But it is just like, well, I don't feel it from you. So, the first law of leadership is to create maximum impact and influence in the lives of the people that you lead. If they believe that you genuinely care about them and have their best interest at heart, that is the first step that almost transcends any failure as a leader, any shortcoming or any inadequacies that we as leaders have. If the people we lead genuinely see and believe and feel and know that their leader has their best interest at heart, That right there is one of the most valuable keys to successful leadership. That is the first, the first law.

Oh, I love that. And so much of it is about trust and respect. And so I love that. What is the second one?

The second one, it goes exactly what you just brought up. They have to believe that you trust them and they have to know that you trust them. There has to be this awareness and realness. They have to know that you trust them. This is a hardcore law. This is, I mean, out of the 4 Laws, I mean, Amberly, have you ever been led by somebody that you felt did not trust you?

No, but that has got to be an awful feeling. I don't, I can't think of that off the top of my head. But you know, it's interesting you say this because Madison, who works alongside me, um, I have really given her a lot of opportunities to know, to show her that I trust her. And from the very beginning, when you hand over your passwords, all of your passwords, you're like, okay, here we go. You, you, you can access everything. I've given her, you know, and that's, that's passwords to, you know, she, she's got my credit card, she's got my email, she's got my social media accounts. Like, she's the only other person that has any of that stuff. So just starting that relationship and that trust, it's like, it's so important. But I think it's also when you start giving people more and more and Holding them as capable, I think, is powerful because— and that goes with, you know, holding our children capable, saying, you got this, I trust in you, I know you can get this job done. Or, you know, or whether you're talking to somebody on your team, allowing them the opportunity to show you that they are capable and they are trustworthy and building that along the way is very important. So. It's not always easy, you know, it's a little scary at first. Because there have been times where, you know, I've had things not go so great, not with the team that I have now. But in the past, it's a learning experience. In fact, I just had someone ask me yesterday, they were like, how do you create your team? How do you build your team? And so much of that goes into taking chances, putting out good and being good to people. I think when you're good to people, people are good to you. But it's so much about trust as well. And it's a lot of lessons learned along the way because it's taken me a long time to finally have a great team.

Well, that's amazing. And the gift that you've given to Madison, where she knows that you trust her, That is such a powerful gift that we can give as leaders to the people we lead. Now, here's one quick tip on if you don't, for those listening, it's amazing. Amberly, I love that you're such an incredible, integritous human being that like when you're like, you know what, honestly, like I don't really know anybody that's led me that Doesn't trust me. And because you've earned that, you've created that. But the reality, there are some people—

Thank you, Ben. You know what, that is like top for me is integrity. And I don't know, growing up in Texas, that's one thing that I didn't really know any different growing up in Texas. But in Texas, if you said you were going to do something, you did it. Your word was powerful. You did deals on a handshake. And if you said you were going to show up or you were going to be there, you were there. And that's very, very important to me if I say I'm going to do something. And I think a lot of times people are surprised by that. I didn't even know what the word flaky was until I moved to California. People in California are gonna hate me for that. But, you know, I've been out here a long, long time. But It's so important to have that integrity. It really is. That trust. Without that, I don't know if I can have a relationship without that, that trust. That's really, really important. And then back to Madison again, you know, it's— I've told her, I trust you to make that decision. For you, you look, assess the situation. And I trust that you have my best interests. So I completely, you know, and so she even vets people for the podcast. People are like, oh, I want to be on your podcast. I'm like, oh, got to talk to Madison about that. So you know what I mean? She's incredible. But sorry, I had to jump in.

I love that.

But integrity is like, it's huge. It's like, I think that it's so important to have that. So people, they, they know what they're going to get too. They know what to expect from you.

Definitely. This opens a big conversation. I just want to share one little tip.

Thanks so much for joining us this week on True Written Grace Podcast. If you like it, please rate it or share it with your friends.

That would help too.

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What if you don't trust somebody you're leading?

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Thanks again for tuning in, and I'll see you next week. Don't fool yourself into thinking that, that I don't trust this person that I'm leading. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're going to be a highly impactful leader to them. Unless you are willing to actually dive into that and have the crucial conversations, the radical candor that if we are unwilling to have, that trust will continue to corrode. We are intuitive. We can tell when somebody doesn't trust us. So, trust me, if somebody that you lead, if you don't trust somebody that you lead, Trust me, that person, they, your ability to bring out their very best, just your ability to influence them goes to the floor. And there is, this is a big conversation. I would love to have it. Let's, but I want to share. So, that is why I introduced that, because then the 3rd law, the 3rd law is one of the most powerful laws and it is, Amberly, are you cool if we jump to the 3rd law?

Yeah, yeah. I want to hear this. Yeah. So first they want to know, you know, it's like it's important to know that they really have your best interest, then the trust. And number 3 is?

They have to know and they have to believe. The people that you lead, they have to know that you have confidence in them. And let me illustrate this. It's a really simple law, but let me illustrate this with a story. I remember when I was in high school and I had a leader of my church and, man, every time I was around him, his name was Doug Johnson, he just made me feel like, he made me feel like I mattered. I felt like he saw me. And one time I was walking on the hall and on the other corner of the hall, I started hearing a couple of voices and I couldn't see who it was because there was like a corner and I am walking this way and there are some people over on the other side. And I heard my name and I heard, that Ben Ward. And I like froze. I was like—

That Ben Ward?

That Ben Ward. And I was like all ears. I was like, whoa, somebody just said my name and like what are they going to say? And I heard the voice. I didn't know who it was. I heard this voice telling another human being, that Ben Ward, I would invest in stock.

Wow.

And Ben Ward. And I was just like, what?

Like, wow.

Yeah. And I just let that sit for a minute. And I am just a punk teenage kid trying to figure out who I was. And like, and I found out as I kept listening that it was Doug Johnson. And here is the thing about Doug is that he was a leader for me, and I knew that he had confidence in me. So, what happened was when he was in my presence, I became the best version of myself. In fact, when he showed up to my baseball games, like, here is honest, this is embarrassing to admit, like, I wasn't very good at baseball, but in my mind, I was. In my heart, I was. I was all, I am going to be a pro baseball player. And I didn't even know, but really soon after this, I was about to be cut from my high school baseball team. But here is the magic. When Doug Johnson showed up to my baseball games, he believed in me. He had confidence in me. I knew that he had confidence in me. So, when he showed up, I hit better. I like, I made less errors in his presence in baseball because he had confidence. He gave me that gift. It is like what Goethe, the ancient philosopher, says. He says, If you treat a man as he is, he will stay as he is. But if you treat him as if he were what he could and ought to be, he will become what he could and ought to become. So, in Doug Johnson's presence, because I knew that he had confidence in me, I, in his presence, I rose up to the level of belief that he had in me.

That, that's amazing. I mean, it takes me back to my days of dancing, and we had, um, Mr. Kirby come in, and every time he came in the classroom, I— he made me feel like I was, you know, special, like I was the gifted one, that I— and so every time he came to teach a class, or, you know, he came— he lived in LA and he would come to our little studio in this small town in Texas. I felt like I wanted to work harder and try harder and go full out. So it does make a huge difference when we feel like somebody has that confidence in us.

So it's one of the most—

really believing in us, you know. And I think until we can believe in ourselves sometimes, because I know there have been times when I was like, oof, I don't know if I can do this. And I've had people go, Of course you can. You got this. And it makes such a difference. Well, what is the 4th one?

Yeah. So, the 4th one, they have to know and they have to believe that you would take a bullet for them. A figurative bullet, right? Like, are we willing to step up as a leader and like allow them to save face? Are we willing to jump in and take a bullet? Let me give you one quick story to illustrate this. this law. I remember I went undercover in one of our warehouses about 5 years ago to see how the team culture was doing. And we had a big company with 2,300 employees. It was a large fashion clothing company. And I was responsible for leadership and culture in the organization.

And I love that. And that's actually one of the questions I was going to ask you is just about the culture of the company and how you create a better culture. But I love that you went undercover. How fun.

Yeah, it was so fun. I'm gonna pull this picture to show you while I share this because, well, I'll get it here in a second. So I went in and I had this trainer. His name was T, literally like the letter T. And he was one of the best. And I'd never met him. And they set me up with like one of the best trainers. And so I was with him for an hour and we're zipping around and we had like the pallet jacks. And we're going, and an hour into it, I'm already like hot and like sweaty and going. And, and he gave me the pallet jack. He's like, all right, your turn. Ready? And so like about 10 minutes into me holding this pallet jack, we're zipping around the warehouse.

So what was it, a power jack? What was he—

Oh, it was for clothes, like a pallet, a pallet jack.

Oh, I was like, what was it?

Yeah.

Okay.

And so I had this pallet jack.

Those of us that aren't in the clothing industry are like, Pallet jack? What the heck is that?

So, we are cruising around and I go and I slam with the pallet jack. As we are turning a corner, I slam into one of the pallets and it shattered and it made like the loudest noise and it just shattered. Like all the clothes that were in that just kind of came falling out. And I am like demoralized. What in the world did I just do? And like I just slammed it and 20 people from the warehouse like came coming out like, What happened? And what happened next was game-changing. T, my trainer, jumped straight within like, it felt like a minute, but it was like 3 seconds because I was so embarrassed. That 3 seconds was like, I was traumatized. T jumped up and he's like, to everyone that's coming out, he's like, my bad. Patted his chest. I'll never forget him patting his chest. He's like, my bad. On me.

On me.

I didn't show him. My bad. And he literally took a bullet. He stepped in and—

That is like, makes me want to cry. That's so sweet.

I'll tell you what, Amberly, that—

Because a lot of times people will just throw you under the bus.

100%.

No, like totally. That actually just happened to us this weekend. I am not kidding. So I just have to share a story. We were at a, we were at a horse show and there, you know, there was other people were all in this little tiny area and people are there, you know, the kids are having snacks and food and eating lunch and there's to-go containers and all this stuff. And one of the ladies walk over to us and they were like, Well, that family just said that all that trash was because of the Lago family, because of you guys. And she goes, And, and you know what I love is that saying of be so good, or, or, or be like so, you know, there was no way anyone would ever believe that our family would ever leave a mess like that because we're always helping out around the barn. So it was funny to see that someone else had like tried to throw us under the bus. But then the trainer came over later and said, yeah, I know how helpful y'all are, that you would never do that. Like, so have a reputation that no matter what anybody said, they would know there's that— if they said something bad, that wasn't true. You know?

Totally. Yes. Like, your actions—

What about the culture of the team? Like, if that happens, Why, why throw somebody under the bus? Say, oh, you know what, here, let me help you. Let me help clean it up. There's so many different options that you could do, like T did. He was like, oh, my bad. Let me— this is me. This is on me. I should have shown him. I should have— we should— I should have worked this out. I mean, that's a real team. And recently, I don't know if you've seen There's a big thought leader right now, and I won't even say her name, but she has been throwing her team under the bus, like blaming things on her team. And I think as a leader, you have to take accountability and responsibility, and you have to look at it as don't point your finger at somebody else. Like, know what is your part in it? Like, how can you better this situation? So, I think this is a powerful, powerful quality to have, you know, is, you know, you would take a bullet for your team.

It is so true. And there is so much power when the people that we lead actually know and believe that their leader would take a bullet for them. That is so important. Yeah. The way that I felt when T did that for me, and I am just like undercover. He didn't know. He didn't know who I was. He was my trainer. Like, this was my first day. In his mind, it was my first day and he has got my back. What happened was, like, to this day, I think of T as a true leader. In fact, here is a picture of him. And me. This was 3 months after this instance. I came back to visit him. There he is.

Wow. Wow. Did you, so how was that? It reminds me of that TV show, like Undercover Billionaire or whatever. When you came back and you are like, surprise, I am just kind of checking out the culture and you passed with flying colors. How did you approach that? What happened when you, like, he found out who you really were?

It was later that day. Now, this picture is 3 months later. We built, we developed a deep relationship. And but it was later that day when I just, I just, what he learned, I shared with him. I gave him a big hug and I said, T, I just wanted to let you know, I came to see kind of how things are in the trenches because we talk a big culture in our company. But to just kind of see how things are going, and I shared with him, I just said, T, I got emotional. Like, could not be more proud and more grateful to be part of this team knowing that we have leaders like you in this team. And he was bawling. He got, he was just like, he had no idea. He just was like, bawling, like, whoa, like, he was so proud. He's just so proud. And it was just a beautiful moment.

Oh, I love that. Well, what are some of the things— and, um, and then we'll talk about where people can find your book, because you talk about all these things in, in your book right here, Sellership. What are some of the things that— what's one thing that somebody could do today to just really deepen their relationship and create a thriving team culture?

You know, as a leader, if by adopting these 7 words, there are the 7 most important words in leadership, I think encompass the 4 Laws. We talked about the Laws, like they have to know that you have their best interest at heart. They have to know that you trust them. They have to know that you have confidence in them, and they have to know— they have to believe that you'd take a bullet for them. These 4 laws, like, to kind of encompass all of them, this one thing to leave, kind of leave you with, uh, for those listening, is the 7 most important words. And Amberly, you said it naturally. You actually said these words in our conversation naturally. As we have been talking, and it is not about you. It is about them.

Wow.

As Leaders, as we adopt that mentality that, hey, it is not about, it is not about me. It is about them and how can I serve the people that I lead the most meaningful? Sometimes that is going to be sharp and stern. That is leading them. That is making it about them. Oftentimes, we don't want to give correction because we don't want to be the bad guy. So, we don't give correction and we make it about ourselves because we don't want to be blamed for pointing out their deficiency. So, we don't give correction. But when we truly make it about them, sometimes that is soft and kind and loving. Sometimes that is firm and strong and bold. And as we really, really care about the people we lead, we will know what is needed and how to serve them in ways that will help them to grow and develop.

Oh, I love that. Yeah, and it is so much about communication, great communication, like really good communication, and sometimes it takes a while. To get really clear. And I, I take responsibility for a lot of times, and I have to go, oh, you know what, I did not communicate that correctly. You were right. I did— I need to be a better communicator. And so I think that's important. I just love all that you have shared. I love your book. I'm sure it was quite interesting to write a book with Greg. Reed, Dr. Reed, um, because he is so intense. Intense in a good way. Before we go, how was that writing a book with Greg? I mean, he's written how many? Oh, I lost count, like 114 books or something.

Greg is amazing.

And I love him. I— he's a life changer. He is seriously a life changer. He is an incredible leader. He is one of those people that I know if I ask him something, he is always going to give me the best advice. So, yeah, Greg needs to hear this episode.

Yeah, I learned so much from Greg. One of the things I love specifically about Greg is he cares enough to offer very clear and even like sharp like, like correction.

Uh-huh.

And, and it's, I mean, nobody wants to be the bad guy, you know, but like Greg is, is a true leader who knows the path and is willing to very quickly give correction. So as we were going, like, I'd kind of like have these ideas, like, nope, like, and, and not in a, and like, what I love is that he made, like, the whole time he's like, Ben, this is your book. Like, I'm just here. I'm going to be your mentor, your outside eyes. I'll help you with different things. This is your book. It's your direction. But even with that, he was so gracious and kind in that, like as we worked together. And then, but when I would get a little off track, he was just not afraid to like rein me in. And anyways, like we just kind of talked about, cares. Sometimes leaders, we care so much about our people, we don't want to tell them the truth. And Greg is a true leader that is willing to be the bad guy for the benefit of the people that he leads. And I experienced that with him. And he is just a beautiful, amazing human being.

Oh, I know he is. I love him. And because of him, I met you.

Yes.

You know, so I am— and that is really the power of masterminds, I think, investing in a mastermind is just can be life-changing and move the needle on your business. But more than anything, the thing I love about masterminds the most is the people and the connections and the deep connections that you make with people in the mastermind. I mean, that mastermind and going to Vegas was probably the highlight of COVID for me. I did not realize just how much we really need that human connection, like in the flesh until I w— I left Vegas on top of the world, just getting to be around y'all in the mastermind. So yeah, I can't wait till we get to see each other again. Are you going to Secret Knock?

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Didn't even have to ask that really. Right. So yes, y'all check out his books. Sellership. Check out his YouTube channel. Where's the best place for people to buy your book or, you know, hire you to speak or coach with you and learn more, Ben?

Thanks, Amberly. Yeah, benward.com. You can connect in with different resources, my YouTube channel, my newsletter, just for the value every week. But benward.com is the best place.

Okay. That's awesome. And yeah, you know what? You are always providing value, whether it's through your talks on Clubhouse or your newsletter or your YouTube channel, and of course your book. So thank you so much for taking the time to, to drop in all these nuggets of wisdom. I appreciate you, and I'm, I'm so honored to call you my friend. So thank you so much, y'all. If you found some value in this episode, make sure you take a screenshot and tag me @AmberlyLagoMotivation and tag Ben. And, um, we'll see you next time.

Thank you so much, Amberly.