Imagine the Possibilities with Frederick Penney

Thank you for tuning in to the True Grit and Grace podcast. I'm Amberly Lago, and I'll be sharing inspirational stories of resilience and empowering ideas to elevate your business and your life, ignite your passion, and fuel your purpose. Hey, it's Amberly. Thanks for tuning in to True Grit and Grace. Today on the show, I have a real treat for y'all. I have Frederick Penny here with us. He's the founder of Penny and Associates. He's got a nationally syndicated radio show that we'll talk about. He's been featured in Forbes, in USA Today, in Super Lawyers for his luminous accomplishments. And what I'm most fascinated by is his journey, his grit, his success, and yet the way he approaches things with— despite his luminous success. I mean, he went from picking peaches to jet-setting across the country. He's got a new book. that has just come out. It's called Goose. I can't wait to talk to him about that. So Frederick, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Amberly. It was— I'm excited to sit and talk to you. And when I heard that you wanted to interview me, I was like, not only yes, but as a quick yes, because I have a lot of people asking to interview me. And well, let me look into it. Amberly, boom, you bet. I want to talk to you.

Oh, well, thank you. We have, you know, I feel like we were destined to meet because I first heard you talk on Clubhouse and we connected. And I mean, Y'all, he has got millions of followers. He's in high demand. Here it is, a holiday weekend. It's actually Labor Day, and he is taking the time out of his schedule to be here with us to share his mindset, his journey, how he's achieved this success. This, you know, this podcast is all about struggles to success. And, you know, one thing I am just fascinated by is how you grew up. You know, your dad was a cop, your mom was a stay-at-home mom. And do you really feel like you learned grit from your dad?

A shout out to Renee Knorr. I just spoke at the women's conference and yes, it was my dad, but I'm gonna put up the women in my life that gave me the grit. I would say even more than my father did. My father was a Marine who fought in Korean War. He's got 2 Purple Hearts. He had 2 Bronze Stars. He was one of the Frozen Chosen, if you wanna look up what that is as a Marine. Any Marine knows they're the heroes. And he was a police officer and he was a tough guy, grew up in the San Francisco area, was out on the streets at age 14. So, yes, it was a tough row to hoe that my father was. And my mom was a little, good little church girl. The two were the complete opposites when they married and they stayed married their whole life. And It was an interesting upbringing. A father who said, I want to get my boys— there's 4 boys he raised— out of the city. And he put us up in the country, put us on a small farm. I was like end of 4th grade, beginning of 5th grade, moved up to the farm. And that's kind of how he grew up. He grew up in the city, but in a place called Lake County, California. And so what he did is he just wanted us to experience that, right? So, he pushed us out. And my mom, by the way, was from Pasadena. She's a Pasadena— she's an LA girl. And she cried. I didn't realize this till later in life. She goes, I cried for 3 years when he put me out into the country to raise us boys on the farm, because she's a Pasadena girl, right? And it was hard for her. And what grit my mom had. And then my grandmother, who was one of the early business owners in the Pasadena area in the 1940s owned her own supermarket. That was my grandma. Back in the '40s, the women didn't own the supermarket.

Yeah.

And so she was a great, great mentor of mine. And then my Grandma Harrington was a mentor, not really close to me, but the grit that she had raising my father and my uncle as babies and children as a single mom In the '40s. And by the way, she's partially American Indian. If you saw a picture of her, she looks American Indian, and she struggled to raise those kids. So my dad had that grit in him, and then my mom did, and then my grandma did. And it was so funny how you bring this up, and I bring this story up all the time. Let me fast forward to and explain to you how the beginning was. I was always taught to work hard. That was not an issue. Right? And we grew up with nothing. We grew up with my dad's police officer salary and that's it. And 4 boys. And we had to, you know, we had a big garden, we had plum trees, peach trees. And I worked at a peach farm, you know, for years when I was 14. But here's what I remember, kind of the epiphany that happened in my life. And it wasn't like 100% this, but this is where it started. I loved basketball. And I came home from a basketball game when I was a sophomore in high school. And my grandmother, the one that built this supermarket, and that's another whole story that I'm not going to get into what happened and how she did it. But once she came home and she said, well, how was your game? And she's the only one that called me Freddie, by the way. Freddie, how did you do? I said, we lost, Grandma. And she said, oh, why? They scored more points than us and they were better than us? And then guess what her question to me was? She always, she was never demeaning, but she always questioned, Freddie, why were they better than you? And why did they score more points than you? Because they were faster. And like, well, why were they faster? She would never let me make an excuse. Every time I brought an excuse up, she would question it.

Well, why?

And then I remember her stopping me to some degree, kind of stopping me as I was getting frustrated. She said, Freddie, you can do anything you want in this world. If you want to be the President of the United States, just go be the President of the United States. The only one stopping you is you. And that's it. She walked away. And that kind of resonated with me as a young teenager going, okay, all right. And from that point on, I realized they never get— I never had an excuse. My mother would take us to church and my dad stayed home. He didn't go to church. My mom did. And I just, I still remember the time when I was a young boy saying, and we had the option, you don't have to go to church. I said, I'm not going to church, Dad. My dad said, fine, you don't have to go to church. My brother, by the way, I had an older brother, said, don't do that. Don't, don't. And I said, I'm not going to church. Well, sure enough, at 9:00 AM in the morning, they marched off to church and my dad put his cowboy hat on and says, let's go, boy. We're going to work out in the fields. And he worked me till 9:00 at night. Right?

Wow.

And after church, everybody came home and The boys didn't work on Sunday, right? So they got to play and relax and I worked. So I never missed church after that. But that's the type of upbringing that I had. Hard work, grit, you know, no excuses. And my dad grew up again, age 14 on the streets, no excuses. And they wouldn't allow me to make excuses. That was the foundation that Amberly, that started it. And that's how I was raised.

Well, I love that your grandmother sounds like such an incredible role model for you developing your mindset and telling you you can do anything and be anything. Um, when you decided to— what made you decide to, to want to be a lawyer, by the way?

So I always tell this funny story, as I, I wanted to be a farmer and a rancher. That's what I wanted to do. You did?

You wanted to be a farmer?

Oh yeah, I love, I love it. And, and As of today, I have 2 farms right now.

I love watching your Instagram Reels, your videos, and seeing you out on the farm because we've got a horse and my daughter really wants a farm. Like, we've got a house and it's a little bit of land and she's like, Mom, I want a goat, I want chickens, I want—

Garden, all that stuff. Yeah, and that's my therapy. And that's another, another story I'll talk— we can throw out later. But what, what happened is I remember my— by the way, my older brother set a good example. He is, by the way, a judge now, and he went to law school and I kind of followed him. But Amberly, I was barely made it out of grammar school. They were shocked, my teachers, that I made it out of high school. I worked hard, but I didn't like school.

Right.

And then my dad kind of got me motivated by saying, okay, I'll help buy an old junked-up Jeep for you, Toyota Land Cruiser, if you get better grades. My grades went straight to the top, right? And they didn't even think I'd make it to college, then to law school. But before that, in high school, my dad said something to this effect. And my brother said, I don't remember him saying that. I said, I do. I remember him saying it to me because I needed it worse than anybody, right? He said, son, all I know is at the end of the day, everyone's laying on the ground. There's one guy or gal holding the money, and that's the lawyer. You're going to law school.

Really?

That's kind of a joke. He said that. I said, well, I guess I'm going to law school. And then I started— I worked at the peach farms from age 14 to about probably close to 18, worked at a butcher shop, just grinding, and then worked at a wrecking yard. And I just realized my dad's just like, what are you doing, boy? What are you doing? And don't get me wrong, I love people who are hardcore working people. That's what I love. I love those type of people, and I think they are the salt of the earth and the salt of America. Right. But my dad basically said, you know, head on to law school. And I did. And it was a struggle for me. I worked really—

Where did you go to law school?

Brigham Young University. But I'm out of California. But my brother went there and I went up there to law school, then came back to California, kind of followed my brother's footsteps. That's where he went to law school, which is a phenomenal law school. Phenomenal law school.

I, you know, there, when I was doing research on you, I heard an interview that you did and you were very strategic in things that you did. Even working at the peach farm, you were like, okay, I'm picking peaches now, but I want to get to where I'm selling those peaches. And you were like always looking ahead at what you could do and how you could scale and get closer to making, um, more money, I guess. Really.

Right.

Um, and so I love that. Even when you were picking peaches, you were like, how can I make the best of this situation? You know?

Right. In fact, peaches were the easy part. Picking the zucchini was the difficult one because you cut your arms up. Have you ever picked zucchini?

Oh my goodness.

They got the little spikes and my arms would just be all cut up. And people always ask me to come and speak to high school or grammar school kids and teach them how to be successful. You know what I tell them? Hey, let's take them out to the beet farm and let them hoe beets for a couple of weeks. I don't have to say anything after that. Right? And so I just think hard work and grit makes you become— the success is built automatically in you. Right?

Mm-hmm.

And so, in fact, let me back up to a little— I went to a high school, it was a very poor high school, and they asked me to talk to the graduating seniors and some juniors. A boy raised his hand and he said something to this effect. I don't remember the exact words, but something to the effect of, Mr. Penny, why are you successful? My dad's not.

Hmm. Ooh.

How do you answer that? Right?

Yeah.

And as a lawyer, as a lawyer, I think I can answer everything. And I paused and I, and I, I was thinking quick on my feet. I said, you know, son, I don't know your dad or what he's been through. But maybe, just maybe, I got off the ground more times than he did.

Oh, that just melts my heart. You answered that in such a perfect way because years ago we went on a vacation. So my husband is retired now, but he was a lieutenant commander and he was always like looking at how he could get, you know, become a sergeant, then a lieutenant, then a commander, like looking to take care of his family and, and looking ahead to make sure he had a good pension and all that stuff. And his brother is, um, a police officer in Miami. And I'll never forget this. We went on vacation and with the whole family, and his nephew said in front of everyone, Dad, how come Uncle Johnny can take his family on vacations like this but we can't? You know? And it was just like, how do you answer that? You know? It was like we were just very— a lot like you in the beginning. Like, I know that when you started achieving all this success as a lawyer and started making a lot of money, you weren't automatically going to buy jets. Like, you were in a pretty humble home and investing. And that's what we have done. I mean, people have asked, you know, they, they've come straight out and asked my husband because, you know, cops don't always make the most money. You know what I mean? It's, it's pretty set income. And we've had people say, somebody out front said to him, hey, you know, how can you afford to have your daughter in equestrian and buy this horse for her with a cop salary? And he was like so offended. But it was like, because we don't live, um, a champagne life on a beer budget. We don't like overspend.

Right.

We live in a pretty humble house and we also invest in things. But can you share with the audience, like the listeners, what are some of the things that you did invest in when you were building up your business instead of blowing money on, you know, fancy watches and, and fancy dinners and big houses. You were really investing. What are some things that people could do to invest in so they have maybe some passive income or success later on down the road?

Right. And this is what I always say. We're all on a ladder, right? And people say to me, well, Fred, you live a different lifestyle than me. I, I'm down here in the bottom of the rung. Oh no, I was there too. And whatever I'm going to say now applies to you, no matter if you're at the bottom of the rung or the top of the rung in your ladder of life, right? When I talk about— I'm talking financial. There's another whole issue we can talk about, God and what I believe in that issue, how that helps you in life. But I'm just talking about financial right now. Okay? So what I did is, as I started becoming a successful lawyer, I just talked to a young boy about a law firm in San Francisco hired or brought on 3 or 4 of us, and they were going to choose the lawyers, the people that they wanted to hire as lawyers. And they hired the 3 and dropped 1, and I was the one they dropped. And you know what? I said to myself, that's okay. You know, my grandma taught me there's no such thing as failure. It's just an experience. So I just said, that's okay. Just think if they hired me, I wouldn't have started Penning Associates. my law firm 31 years ago, I would have been working for another firm, a big— it was a big mega firm, right? So those opportunities I see as experiences and helped me. And so as I opened my law firm and they said, there's no way you can do it as a brand new lawyer just passing the bar. And I said, watch me. And, you know, remember me, the guy who really grew up with nothing and the person that believes he is no happier, that is me. no happier today than I was when I had no money. My happiness has not changed with the exception of family and children and friends, right? My happiness has not changed one bit. I'm just as happy back then as I am now because that's what you have to look at. So for me, it's easy, right? It's easy when I start making money because happiness wasn't the money. Now it's a game. I love the game. So as money started to roll in, it was about 3 or 4 years into my practice. I was hitting verdicts. I was on television interviewing me on some cases and the firm started to boom. My friends were buying Lamborghinis, building big houses, my lawyer friends. And I lived in like a 1,900-square-foot home. My wife was a stay-at-home mom. And by the way, a lovely woman who was a registered nurse that helped put me through law school and then stayed home with our 4 children.

Wow.

We lived in that small— we weren't in a dump, but it wasn't anything fancy. The cars I paid off. And then I invested and bought properties, bought companies, invested in companies, increased the law firm, and I grinded. And I didn't stop my grind once the money started coming in. And that's the problem with people. I always say the 3 most important words in my life when it comes to business is resist, resist, resist. Those are the 3 words I— even today, I use those in my own business still. And I resisted, not for a year, mind you, not for 2 years to get the big house, which I could afford, 10 years. I sat in that humble home buying companies, buying properties, industrial buildings, Class A, Class B homes, all that type of stuff that now is worth good money, right? And then I was able after 10 years to buy the big home, the big properties, The nice cars, I drive brand new Bentley. I can afford it. But if I can't pay cash, I don't buy it. I know my accountant will say, oh, you don't want to do that. I don't care. I don't want it unless I can pay for it and afford it.

Right?

Mm-hmm. And that's the way I've always built my life and my businesses is those 3 most important words are resist, resist, resist. I'll be straight up to be, I'm not trying to be arrogant. I want another plane. The next plane, this will now be my 3rd plane jet I really want, but I don't need it. Right. So I'm not getting it. I don't need it. I mean, okay, I can fly to Europe on a tank of gas. I don't care. I don't need it. So I'm resisting, resisting, and resisting. And if you place that in your life, no matter where you are in the rung, you're going to— the odds of you being successful in business are really high.

That's incredible. That's incredible. And, and huge shout out to your wife, the former nurse who raised— stayed home to raise the kids. How was that as far as support goes when she was like, okay, we have this 1,900 square foot house and you keep buying these properties and businesses? Was she supportive with that? Did she help you make decisions with that? Or what was her response when you were like, I want to buy this other business and this other piece of land? How is that?

Yeah, that's great. My wife is very behind the scenes because she wants to. By the way, she's on the board of directors of a very successful business, but she's quiet. My wife is complete opposite of me. I'm out there, my name's on the plane, my Instagram. My wife is very humble and quiet about things, and she likes it that way. That's why our personalities mesh. An individual told me one time, Fred, no matter what you do in life, marry a solution, not a problem. And I married the solution. Now she got the problem, but I married the solution. And so that's what she has been, a strength next to me. She is a brilliant woman, but she's quite— everyone's like, well, we always see you. You won't see her on almost anything of mine, nor my children and grandchildren. I keep that a little more private. Right. But she—

That's the same. That's the same. My husband does not like— in fact, he'll be like, don't put me on your story on Instagram. Don't put— and then sometimes I do. And he's like, well, let me see. You know, he's like, oh, let me see. But he's very behind the scenes. But my rock, he is my hero. He's my rock. And it sounds like your wife is a rock for you.

This 37 years.

That's incredible. So 37 years, what do you say would be the secret to your blissful marriage after 37 years together?

Easy. Let's see. I always say it's the first 2 words and then the next 2 words. The first 2 words are, yes, ma'am. And the second 2 words are, how high? In other words, how high do you jump? Do I jump? And I always tell people, it's just easier to just whatever she wants. Like, she's renovating our house. It doesn't need to be renovated. I don't think so. But again, I grew up with nothing, so I like it old and junky. Not junky, but it's nice, but it's not— fancy, but I've just learned to say, okay, dear. I'm going to tell this story without giving names. I'll never forget these 2 friends of ours, husband and wife, and this beautiful woman with children, and he's a successful businessman, but not super successful. And she turned to me. I remember we were sitting there in the living room as a kind of a joke. Fred, if I was married to you, I'd be at Nordstrom's every day. And I turned to her, and I won't say her name, and I said, blank, her name. I said, that's why I didn't marry you. So my wife still goes to Costco and Walmart to this day. We fly on private jets and she goes to Costco and Walmart. You'll see her at Walmart. We're both the same way. I still go to Walmart and Costco all the time. Not Costco, but I go to Walmart a lot.

Yeah. Well, you know, being here in Texas, that's like, and we're, I will never forget, we're driving in. So I moved to Dallas area and we're driving in and I see population. We moved to an area called Heath.

Mm-hmm.

And it says population 7,400 people. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what have I gotten myself into? You know?

Southern cowgirl.

Yes. Yes. You know, my husband, he likes to shop more than I do. And he will say something like, he was like, you need some new boots. He— and I'm like, no, no, my old boots are fine. And he's like, he goes, I can't believe you won't buy yourself a new pair of boots, yet we get our horse a new pair of horseshoes every 6 weeks. Like, buy the boots, you know? So he— because I, I started— we did not grow up with much. And so I am— I, I'm not a big shopper. I can skip Nordstrom's. I can, you know, don't even like going to the mall. But I, I would— hopefully I'll get to meet you and your wife in person someday. I'm so grateful that our mutual friend Mark Victor Hansen Introduced us. And speaking of him, I mean, y'all, if you've probably heard the interview on the show with him and his wife Crystal, he is the author of Chicken Soup for the Soul. Incredible couple, incredible man. And he said, Amberly, you've gotta meet Fred. He's amazing. And I can't wait to read your book, but I had no idea he co-authored this book with you. That's amazing.

Yeah, we teamed up and his staff, and he's the publisher. He's going to be publishing it with me. The front of the book talks about how he loves the book. And it's a, it's a series of 3 books called Goose. It started out as The Golden Goose. I'm the one that didn't pick that. They said, look, we want to talk about the golden goose. That's you. Because I was a little uncomfortable, to be honest with you, doing a biography and talking about myself, right?

Oh yeah, it is uncomfortable.

That's a little uncomfortable. So they came up with a brilliant idea. They're going to do— they're going to bring in William Collins, a fictional character, and they're going to pattern his life after mine. My sayings, the things I say, the resist, resist, resist, all the things that I grew up with. That's what they're going to do. And it's a fictitious person and family, the Collins family, that— that are growing up. So book 1 that's coming out September 9th— this is on your podcast, I don't know when this comes out, so it starts September 9th on Amazon— it takes me to my 75th birthday. Now I'm 59 right now, so it pushes ahead and it talks about what's happening on my 75th birthday party. The whole book is the one day. Really interesting.

Wow.

Book 2 is then sliding back to my youth. when I was a kid growing up on the farm with nothing in the country, on a ranch. I'm going to say more of a ranch than a farm, a small farm. It was only like 10 acres, right, with my grandma and I. But it was, you know, that's what book 2 is going to happen. And then book 3 is going to roll into the middle where I start the law firm and build the practice and build my businesses as time goes. And what an exciting time for us to have this book come out on Friday, September 9th. So of course I love people to go. I guess just you can do it, you don't even have to buy the book, you buy the ebook because only— it's not that expensive. I think if you're Amazon Prime, I think it's $1.99. Don't quote me. It's— I, I think it's interesting, but again, that's me.

He is such a great mentor for anyone who is writing a book. How did you meet Mark Victor Hansen?

You know, I don't know. I know Like I said, one of my businesses is— it's been a while back, but one of my businesses based out of Arizona, and he's based out of Scottsdale. So I know we kind of know some of the same people.

Yeah.

But he and Crystal and my wife and I have gotten together and known each other for a while. I'm almost positive without saying names, I know, and I now remember it was a couple of people who knew him that knew me type of thing, and then slid me over. We started talking. That was a while, years ago, but that's how it occurred. But just, he's just a great person.

He's brilliant at putting things together and the way he storytells. So have you had like a lot of guidance with him helping?

A lot of guidance.

Yeah, thank goodness.

Multiple edits. I mean, I think we're at our 5th edit, right? It was supposed to come out probably 5 months ago, but We wanted it right.

Yeah, you know, I think when I first met you— we've been, we've been, I've been waiting to get you on the show, right? And when I first met you, the book was going to come out earlier, and I think this worked out perfect timing for you to be on the show now closer to when the book's coming out. But I also really appreciate that you share like what a journey it is writing a book and that you're on edit number 5 because For me, it was one of the— it was like birthing a child when I finally released my book. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's here. Like, here it is. And when I went to do the Audible version, I found mistakes in it. I was like, how did that— I was like, oh my gosh, it's— I would just stop talking and go and look at the producer of the, uh, the Audible. I would look outside the booth and go, that's a mistake in the book. Oh my gosh, you know, your eyes just kind of slip over. You need a lot of eyeballs on it. So are you doing an Audible version of this as well?

The answer is we probably are, but right now we're just trying to get the 3-book series out. The first one's coming out September 9th, and again, we're going to try to get book 2 out within the next 6 months, and then within the next 6 months, the 3rd book, and then the series will be done. That series, supposedly— we'll see how it goes. Of course, Mark Victor Hansen The brilliant guy that he is, he's not talking small. He's like, Fred, we're taking this to the movies. Oh, okay, Mark. It's so exciting.

You know what, Fred? I can see it as a movie. I can see this as a movie. And I mean, just— and this sounds kind of wild, but, you know, just when I watch your stories on Instagram and I see that you— I love that you share parts of your day. And when you're out there with the hay on the tractor, and then you show the next video might be you on your jet. And it shows people what is possible when you put in the work, like when you take action and just keep at it one day at a time. And I could totally see this as a movie. So I love that. Yeah, yeah, I will come to the premiere.

Okay, yep, we'll invite you. The interesting thing I'm gonna tell you, I'll, I'll do a, a helpless pitch to my Instagrams. Frederick, F-R-E-D-E-R-I-C-K, Penny, P-E-N-N-E-Y-1, just the number 1, and you can look at my Instagram. But one of the best, most viral videos— and there's a lot of them that have done well, but this one was hilarious. And it is a little bit— I worried about being too precocious with this, but it worked out. I was in my new Bentley. I bought a new— I have a pickup truck and a Bentley, right? And the pickup truck, my holey jeans, my boots I wear on the weekends. And then when I'm rolling in as the power lawyer, I'm in the Bentley, right? And I had to pick up the salt licks for the freaking cows. And I was in the Bentley. So I pulled up to the farm supply and I'm in this new Bentley. And the guys who know me come out. I go, they go, where are we going to put this? I opened the trunk. I said, throw the salt licks in the trunk. So they threw all these cattle salt licks in the trunk of the Bentley. And when I got home to go give the salt licks to the cows, because I live on property that's pretty large, right? with cattle on it and everything. And then I have a bigger ranch up in the mountains. Um, and, and I, I said, I got a video of this and put it on my Instagram. Sure enough, on Instagram, I did the, you know, I did a funny little song with how many people have their salt— carry their salt licks in their new Bentley. And I, I videoed the salt licks coming out of the Bentley, and it was hilarious. Oh my gosh, I had more country people, cowboys, farmers comment on that than anything. It was hilarious.

Oh, I love that. Well, you know, it was funny when I lived in LA, I had an F-250 for like 11 years and people— I'd pull up to a nice hotel and I remember, you know, my truck would be muddy from being at our horse stables and I'd pull up to a nice hotel and they'd look at me and they'd say, well, this truck isn't going to fit in the structure. And I'm like, I know, I guess you'll just have to park it out front with all those fancy cars. And now, you know, I've Finally, you know, I, I bought a Tesla because I was doing a lot of driving. And I just, my right leg gives me a lot of pain still in driving. I can drive with my left foot, but my daughter's the one who convinced me to get a car. I've always been a truck girl. And I remember at first going, no one's putting their muddy boots in this car. We're keeping it clean. You're not gonna eat in it. We're not gonna have hay in it.

Right.

And now it's like we pull up to, you know, The barn, there's hay in the back, there's dirty boots. It's like, it is, it is what it is. I mean, it's not a Bentley, but still, to have a car is like— I've always had a truck, so it feels, it feels nice.

My wife gets mad— not to interrupt— my wife gets mad at me so much. All my new clothes, my, for my law firm, and the sprinklers, the cows break a sprinkler, and next thing I'm back with muddy, my nice, you know, Beautiful. I call church type shoes my lawyer shoes muddy. We got to throw them away. They ruin the leather. My wife's like, "You are an idiot." You know, I feel. I go, but it needs to be fixed. I'm in my my tie and my and I'm fixing a sprinkler, right? But that's that's who I am. That's who I am.

You know, I love that, and I love so much that you know the power also of keeping it real and being yourself and showing up on social media. I mean. Look, you are like Instagram famous and Clubhouse famous. You have millions of followers, which only does one thing— it builds your business. And it, you know, and people will remember you. They're like, oh, I know the best lawyer that you should contact. It's Frederick Penny. What made you decide to get on Instagram?

Good question. So we didn't mention this, a couple of things. First of all, I get on early. I was one of the first people back even another step. A friend of mine that I bought his law practice from found this brand new thing called the internet. He's an old guy. He passed away and he heard about it and drove to San Francisco where this, the first, I don't even know who it was that had the internet and bought the word lawyer.com. And he sold it for $100,000 later, which he realized was stupid.

Wow. Right.

And I realized you got to get in early. So Twitter came out and I was one of the first ones to jump on Twitter.

Really?

California law, I have all that stuff. But guess what? I did nothing with it. I sat, I did nothing. And it's still— you look at my Twitter, it just sits and it's got very few followers. So I kind of got in early on all these things, including Instagram, even TikTok. I got in early. But what has helped me, I realized, I realized that Instagram is important to me for one reason. It's kind of more my niche and my market, but the most important thing I've learned in my life that people have to understand is you build your brand first. Amberly builds her name first. Every business you build after that will follow. But if you build— if you have a company called Widgets or Penny and Associates Like Penny Associates. I don't build Penny Associates. I build the name Frederick Penny because everything will flow down to Penny Associates. So you have to build your personal brand. That's why my name is everywhere. It's on the tail of my jet. It's on pins. It's on the back of chairs. It's everywhere, that name. And people think— some of them don't like you because you're arrogant. You just want your name everywhere. No, I'm building a brand. And I don't—

heck yes, that is amazing. And I, I think more people need to know that. So thank you for bringing that up. And a lot of people don't— my husband did not understand why I was on Instagram. I'm like, I have a vision, I've got a plan. I started out late on Instagram. I didn't start really until about 4 or 5 years ago. When did you start on Instagram?

I don't, I don't know. I'd have to go back and look. It's been a while. Yeah, but I'll tell you what helped me I'm going to step back. What helped me was 6 years ago, I met this producer. I got into radio. I love radio. And a producer, Cal Hunter, who is 3-time Emmy Award nominee but never a winner— we always remind him on the show— he's our producer. And we said, let's start a law show because there's no real law shows other than one person out there. 6 years ago, I built a studio here near my home.

Uh-huh.

I brought in Cal Hunter, one of the best producers in radio. I brought in a couple of power lawyer co-hosts, one that's an actor also, and a beautiful woman that's our rock by the name of Denise Dirks. And we started Radio Law Talk. That's what helped my social media. I mean, we are now the second largest, to my knowledge, in the United States, nationally syndicated live radio show for legal issues, legal show. There's one that's competing, that's competed with us. that's doing better, but we're there fighting to get up there. But that helps me on all my social media, helps me get verified, right? I'm verified on most platforms. It's just that I'm a national radio host. And so you have to do something that is really, as weird as it sounds, a little bit outside that to build your name, to help you on your social media. And that's what I've done. Radio Law Talk, which is on— I think we're Someone said 140 stations, but maybe— I know we're over 100, maybe 115, maybe 120, I don't know. But, but it's nationwide now, and we, we get calls from Georgia. I got— we got a call from Canada on our show. That's helped build my social media because that— look, everyone's a lawyer, right? But this makes it a little special. I'm outside the normal lawyer because I got a live national radio show. that's successful. And, and that's what helped push my Instagram, my, my TikToks. My son has got 600,000 followers and is verified on TikTok. He's a lawyer in our firm. So I have the young— I have the— see how I market it? The young guys, kids that are in my law firm that are my, my children, they are on TikTok. I'm on Instagram, Facebook, and now actually I'm, I'm pushing YouTube. Which I just got verified on YouTube.

Wow, you're amazing.

I got to start pushing YouTube now, right? So that's kind of what I'm doing with my social media. Believe it or not, I get some help. I have staff that helps me. But this is the weirdest thing. Everyone says, well, who do you hire? I've hired people to do it, but they don't do it like I want it. So every video you see on there is mine. I do that. Personally, I get up at 5:00 AM almost every day. I'm up at 5:00 AM. And so I just grind on social media from about 5:00 to 6:30. That's my life, right? But I can't— I'm a 5:00 AM person. And then I get back. I do have East Coast offices, partners that I work with, but that's how I do it. And that's— I push everything with my name. Everything's got my name on it, whether you like Whether people get sick of it or not, my name's on it.

Well, that's so important. I mean, I have worked, you know, I have a mastermind for women, and one of the first things I say is, you know, some of the women that come in, we talk about how to optimize your Instagram. And one of the pieces of advice I give is, you know, we might have some— someone who has a name like Yogi Girl. Well, I can't find you.

What—

why are you going under Yogi Girl or whatever? Use your name. Nobody can take that away from you. Use your name. And that's what I've done. And then built my podcast and my book and the mastermind all underneath that. But it's my name that— and I do the same thing. People ask, you know, who does your social media? I'm like, that's me. People are like, well, no, who's your branding and marketer? I'm like, uh, that's, that's me. And you know what? I think that when people look at your social media and y'all, by the way, all his social media, his TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, book, all of that, his website, are in the show notes. So if you're jogging or driving and you're listening to this, don't worry, you can check out the show notes to find him. I want you to be able to find him. But when I look at yours, I like seeing that it feels like it's yours. Like, I can tell that you do the videos, and so I feel like I get to know you more. It's like authentic and real. So I love that about you, and I'm so glad you brought that up. Like, You had a plan on how to build your brand and you're like, okay, I've got this radio show now. I'm going to be verified because I'm nationally syndicated. And I talk about the importance of having a podcast. Like, I think that it was when I did— well, probably when I was on national TV, but it was when I did my TED Talk and got my podcast that I really— that all of a sudden I got a notification I was verified on Facebook. than verified on Instagram. And but you have to go out there and do things like you've done. So, and thank you for sharing that you get up at 5 AM and you do the work. It's not— people think, oh, I'm just gonna hire somebody to do it for me. It's like, you, you have— how many lawyers do you have working at your firm?

Well, it's a long story. It doesn't sound like a lot. Well, that's another story, and I don't think we have time, but There's only 9 lawyers in my California office, but we have independent contractors that handle some of our stuff. Then nationally, I have— there's Penny and Associates is the California division. Penny Galbraith Elder Brannon is our national firm. And then we have partners in every state that run our cases, and they're under our partners' names.

So that's a lot.

I don't know. I don't know.

Yeah, that is a lot. But with all of that going on, yeah, you still make time to build out your brand with your social media. I think that's amazing. I think that's amazing.

5 AM.

Yeah. If you could give one piece of advice for someone who wants to achieve success like you, what would that be?

Well, let me jump on my personal life. I truly believe— and again, I don't know what everyone's religion is, but I truly believe you need to, you need to you need to have a belief of some sort in a greater being or God and, and the love. Um, obviously I'm Christian, I don't mind saying that, right? You know, but if you're Muslim, whatever you are, you know, you embrace that, right? That's, that's, to me, that's important, right? Because I truly believe that everyone does yoga, does this, that, you know, I just, I believe in a greater being and a greater God. And obviously, and I don't mind saying I'm I believe in Christ. You know, I think if you center your life on your religion or your, or your God, I think doesn't mean you're going to be successful, but I think that's a good foundation for you, right? And that's what I do in my whole life, in my personal life, which I haven't got into. That's, that's what's most important other than my family, right? And my children, grandchildren. But that's, I think that's what I would say is, is, you know, Kind of put things in perspective, right? At the end of the day, when my gravestone's sitting there, it's not gonna have the list of my— what kind of jet I had or what my businesses were, right? You only have like 3 lines, right? That's all that matters. So that's what I'd say. Keep things in perspective. And, uh, what did I say at the beginning of the show? I'm just as happy— I was just as happy back then as I am now. There's been no difference in my happiness.

Oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, we have a close family friend who's a very successful lawyer, and his foundation is God. You know, he has like a really, you know, incredible relationship with God and makes time to put his faith first and pray. And, and, um, highly successful. And that was his top tip as well. So I love that. Um, and now Where can people get your book? And I hope you do it on Audible because I always like to buy the book, but I love to listen to books. Yeah, so I hope you do it on Audible too. But is it best to go to your website or just head over to Amazon for it?

Head over to Amazon. Um, just that's what we're gonna— I mean, that's the best push, just Amazon, and we're gonna go from there. We're gonna— we're supposed to be building the website, but you know, that's You know, do we work on the $20 million case or do I kind of work on the whips?

I know, I know. And I know you have to get going, so I just want to leave you with the audience with a couple of things. So one of your— my favorite posts that you did on Instagram, and y'all check out his Instagram because he does have some hilarious videos on there, is you're taking off in your jet and your caption was like, hope I'm not waking up my neighbors in this small farm town or something.

That's, that's actually where my ranch is. You could fly in. There's an old, uh, Air Force— where the Air Force did during World War II an old long strip that it's really— it's like big, that bigger planes can come in. And it's literally about 15 minutes from my ranch, and it's a ranching community, and it's dinky. I mean, you can't even get fuel there, it's so small. And when that jet rolls in, it rumbles all the ranches and the farms and the You can see the animals running around, and I laugh, uh, because this minute I fly in, I come into the local— just the local store to get some stuff, and they're like, hey, we heard you fly in. I said, oh, sorry. But it's funny.

That's hilarious. Yeah, I used to roll— when I rode my Harley, I would push my Harley to the very end of the street and then start because it was loud, and I was like, oh, I hope I'm not waking my neighbors up. I would like roll my Harley all the way out as far as I could and then start it. But that's reminded me when I, you know, maybe one of these days I'll get a ride in your jet or have—

Well, we will, you and your husband.

And then I have to say one more thing. I love your shark socks, by the way.

Thank you. I've got a whole— I got about 20 or 18 different pairs.

I've got my lucky socks or my shark socks. And one of my posts that did the best on my Instagram was a picture of my shark socks. And so when I saw yours, I was like, Gosh, we have so much in common.

I love the grit. I love the grit.

Congratulations. Thank you. I love your grit. And congratulations on your book. I know it is gonna fly off of bookshelves. Y'all go check out his book. Um, as soon as I get it, I will share that on my social media. September 9th is when it comes out. To check that out, I'm gonna have to reach out to Mark and Crystal and thank them for introducing us. You are just Incredible. Thank you for taking the time, especially with, you know, you're at work, it's Labor Day, and you're like, yeah, I'll be on your show. And here you are. So thank you for sharing your wisdom and your grit.

Thank you, Amberly. Appreciate it.

Thank you.