The Laughing Survivor: A Story of Resilience with Alexandra Ford

Hey y'all, I am so fired up because the Unstoppable Success Summit is in my hometown, Dallas, Texas this year. We are going to be coming to Dallas April 19th and 20th, 2024. So come join us. Look, success is built on relationships and this is not some big, huge conference with thousands of people. This is an intimate, a very exclusive experience on purpose so you can build those meaningful connections so you can rub shoulders With people like, oh my goodness, I've got John Gordon, Ben Newman, Rachel Luna, Rudy Ricksteins, Henry Ammar. Um, I'm speaking. There are mastermind members taking the stage. And so getting in the room is key and getting in the right room can help you achieve unstoppable success. So if you spend your time with people who see your potential, you're more than likely to reach it. So make This year, make 2024 the most unstoppable, most successful year possible. Level up your business, level up your life, get the clarity, gain the confidence, get the real tools taught by people who have already paved the way for you. And, um, I can't wait to see you there. So get ready to ditch your limiting beliefs and, and, uh, Stop listening to fear and go after your dreams. Go to unstoppablesuccesssummit.com, and I can't wait to see you in Dallas. Okay, see you there. Thank you for tuning in to the True Grit and Grace podcast. I'm Amberly Lago, and I'll be sharing inspirational stories of resilience and empowering ideas to elevate your business, And your life, ignite your passion, and fuel your purpose. Hey there, it's Amberly. Thank you for tuning in to True Grit and Grace. I have a very special guest today. I've got Alexandra Stevenson, and y'all, she is a former trafficking victim turned activist with an incredible story of resilience. She's a victim of childhood sexual abuse, battled drug addiction, and was exploited and nearly killed by her trafficking boyfriend. She worked her way back to the light from a very, very dark place, and she understands the importance of bringing these difficult topics out from under the heaviness of shame, and she is using it to open the doors of communication. She's the co-founder. of Uprising in Wyoming, and her personal brand is called The Laughing Survivor. So I couldn't be more honored to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

Oh, well, you are just doing some very, very, very important work, and I've got lots of questions for you. But thank you for the work that you do to bring light and a lot of questions that people might have about trafficking. And just as I was digging into, you know, your work and what you do, there's actually something that I thought was very interesting because you talk about human trafficking can take many forms. And can you list some of the forms that human trafficking can take? Because I think a lot of times people think of it as one thing. thing. Maybe they look at it as, you know, it's all about sex, or they don't see that there— I didn't even realize there were so many forms of human trafficking. So can you bring some awareness to that before we get started?

Absolutely. Um, that's a great place to start. I think one of the biggest confusions that I hear is actually people confusing the idea of human trafficking with human smuggling. So I think people, when they think of human trafficking, oftentimes they're thinking of, you know, container ships of people being brought cross-border, and that is human smuggling. Human trafficking, there is, I believe, if I remember correctly, up to 25 types of human trafficking. The most common one would be commercial sex trafficking. Secondly, uh, close up there would be labor trafficking. So that is the, the same idea is that You're compelling or coercing a person to provide labor services, or if it's sex trafficking, to engage in commercial sex. And there's a third party profiting. So there's also, you know, organ trafficking, less common, does happen. I don't have the list of the different 25 types, but certainly you can look it up. There are so many different types of trafficking, but the 2 most common and the 2 that, you know, we would talk about the most is certainly sex trafficking and labor trafficking.

Yeah. Well, can you tell us how you— so you were trafficked. I mean, when you were younger, sexually abused. Do you think that because you were sexually abused, it allowed you to go into the trafficking? Not that you did it on your own will, but do you think that that was almost, uh, you played victim to, to that because of the sexual abuse?

100%. You know, most often when people ask me about, you know, how did you end up getting trafficked? I have to start my story back when I was groomed and sexually assaulted, sexually abused for many years, because I wasn't dropped on this earth at a— as a 20-year-old, right? I wasn't dropped and then suddenly being a 20-year-old drug addict. Like, something led me to that.

Yeah.

And it's the trauma from the childhood sexual abuse.

And when did that start?

What— how old were you? The grooming and the first assault started when I was about 13 or 14 years old.

Oh, that breaks my heart. Yeah.

And prior to that, I was something of a child prodigy. Like I was not, prodigy might be a bit of a strong word, but I was a child advocate. Like I was actually, you know, skipping school dances so I could door knock and collect signatures for a petition to send to our government. I was setting up booths in malls to teach people about Um, oddly enough, child labor and child exploitation that I at that time only understood happened overseas. And I had gotten involved with advocacy work. And that's, you know, I was the kid that I think my parents were sort of dusting their shoulders off being like, we've won parenting. Like our kid is choosing to do fundraising efforts and to speak at, you know, chamber meetings and all of this at 11 years old. Like, okay, you know. We're done. She's parented. We win. And then when I was groomed and assaulted, um, by my best friend's uncle.

Tell, tell us what you mean by groomed. Like I read that on your website and everything, but tell, tell us what you mean by, by groomed. And yeah, so I think you said there's like 5 stages of grooming, right?

Yeah. It can, grooming overall kind of means the same thing. And then whether you're talking specifically about grooming for sexual abuse or grooming for trafficking, it shifts the details a little bit, but overall grooming, yeah, there's There's 5 stages of grooming, and the purpose of grooming is to prepare someone for the assault or the exploitation. And it starts with the identification of a victim. So whoever the perpetrator is identifies a victim and however they do that, it's a vulnerability. It's, you know, testing the waters with someone and, and seeing where their in is.

Mm-hmm.

Now, once they've identified their victim, They're going to do everything, everything they can to build trust with that victim and fill their needs. So this person, this is often known as, depending on the situation, but it can look like love bombing. So the perpetrator is going to be so interested in you, right? They're going to ask you so many questions. They're going to want to know everything about you. It's going to be like feeling like, you know, you are the star of the show. You are the star of someone's life. They just want to know everything about you. And the reason for that is because they want to know more vulnerabilities and they want to know where they can fill your needs. So in the situation with my friend's uncle, when I was a child, I was hanging out with this like really boisterous, gregarious family. There was 12— sorry, 11 granddaughters and 1 grandson. And we were all fairly close in age, or they were. And so I felt part of this family, but I came from a smaller, much quieter family. I have you know, one older brother that I was raised with. And I was very, very awkward looking, like very awkward looking. I had like an insanely pronounced unibrow, big circular Harry Potter glasses before Harry Potter even existed, buck teeth because I sucked my thumb until I was like 10. Like I was just this awkward looking kid. So he identified that and he identified that I wanted to fit in with this family really badly, that I wanted to feel pretty. You know, at 13, what girl doesn't want to feel, feel pretty. We're being socialized to think that that is our main purpose. So he built that trust with me. He filled those needs. And then the next stage is isolation. And I think this is where often movies, uh, but even in our own minds, we tend to get it a little bit wrong because we think of it often as physical isolation. And trafficking circumstances, often that, uh, translates to people think of trafficking victims as being like chained in a basement somewhere by themselves. When in reality it's a lot more emotional isolation. It's trying to take whatever close relationships you have and widen the cracks. So if you're really close with your parents, but then one day you're complaining to this person like, oh God, my parents are annoying me, they're gonna use that and be like, well, you know, your parents don't really trust you, right? Like they don't see how mature you are. If they really knew you like I knew you, They would let you do XYZ, whatever it is. So that isolation is really going to look a lot more like emotional isolation. So you don't have those social supports that you originally had to lean on. Now, the last 2 stages I tend to talk about more are more related to trafficking specifically. And the second last one I call confusion. So whereas before they were showering you with love, and this can happen in sexual abuse as well, now they may pull away a little bit. They may not answer texts as quickly, or they may not show you quite as much attention. And what's going to happen is your body has basically become addicted to that attention and love. And so you're going to go, wait, what? Like, what's happening? Did I do something wrong?

I can see that where you're like, you are getting this dopamine hit from the person who is like love bombing you, telling you all these things and making you feel so seen and understood and accepted. And now I can see where that would be like, well, wait a minute, because that's like a drug.

100%. So this is where we see what gets so confused in, I think, public perception and certainly in court cases is someone who is being victimized by a perpetrator. Maybe they've already started to be victimized at this point. Maybe there's violence in the relationship, or maybe the sexual abuse has already started. But when they, when the perpetrator pulls away, the victim will often chase them. Like they'll, they'll go back even if they know this doesn't feel good, or I don't like being hit or whatever. It's, you've come to know this and your brain will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven. So even if what you're experiencing feels wrong or feels like hell, whatever place on that spectrum. If it's become super familiar and your baseline for where you get love and attention and support and validation, when they pull away, you're going to want to pull them back. And this is so when people are like, well, why would you, you know, you knew he was hurting you, why would you go back? Why would you, you know, go send him a text and try and continue a conversation or continue a relationship? Because I've become addicted to this person. Because this is where my validation comes from because they have isolated me from my other supports. So I'm not getting that same love that I may have gotten before. I can only get it from them. And then that final stage, talking about trafficking, is often exploitation. It's when it's like, oh, well, if you do want my love and attention back, this is what you're going to have to do for it. In sexual abuse, it's obviously you're not necessarily talking about that, but that may be where they up the ante. That may be where up until then it was smaller acts of abuse, and now they're going to go for, for more significant invasive abuse, or maybe they're going to try and get you to bring a friend or whatever it is. They're going to just really kind of put those final hooks in you.

So when that sexual abuse started, did you know, like in your gut, did you think this isn't right? This doesn't feel right, but this person is telling me that this is right, but something does not feel right.

Yes and no. I think the story people often want to hear when it comes to sexual abuse, especially that of a child, is that you knew it was wrong and that you were overpowered, whether emotionally overpowered, psychologically overpowered, physically overpowered. Because it makes the victim a much victimier victim, right? It, it's easier to stomach that. It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that that wasn't my story. I was interested in that man. He was good looking.

And how much older was he?

He was in his 30s, late 20s, early 30s at that time.

Wow.

So he wasn't old enough. you know, for it to be like a grandpa, like, you know, it's like, it's a grandpa. Like, it wasn't that for me at 13. And a, you know, precocious, very mature 13-year-old who spent more time with adults than I did with kids my age. I was like, okay, well, if this good-looking older man is interested in me, it's because he can see how mature and worldly I am, right?

Yeah.

He can see through, you know, the awkward looks, and he can see my true beauty. And this is, of course, what he's telling me as Well, and I felt special. I felt sexy, which I didn't really know what that feeling was at 13, but I was starting to want to be more womanly and, you know, be older.

And I think we all just in that, at that awkward stage, like, we do want to fit in, you know, you want to.

Yeah, exactly. And but to say that part of me 100% knew It was not okay because A, I didn't tell anyone, right? Like I knew he, and he, he did threaten me to keep me quiet when I started kind of being like, okay, you know, this is too much. And that was when I, by the time I was like 15, 16 and I had boyfriend and I was like, am I cheating? Like, I don't know how to feel now. I started, now I feel like this is wrong.

But how did he, how did he threaten you? What did he tell? Like, cause my, my stepdad, mine started when I was really young. Um, when I was 8. And my stepdad said that he would kill my mom if I told anybody, and I believed him. You know, I, I, how did he get you to not talk and not say anything?

So in that family, um, like I said, there was a lot of grandchildren and we were all about the same age. There are a lot of, not all, but a lot of us were within the same age. He indicated to me that it was me he was interested in, but if he wasn't going to, you know, if he wasn't going to get what he wanted from me, Then he would find someone else, and it would be one of his nieces. And I remember thinking, being so confused, because part of me was jealous, like, no, I'm, I'm the special one. I'm not replaceable like that. And the other part of me was also coming to understand, like, this is really messed up, and I think I'm really damaged from this, and I don't want anyone else to experience this. And I wasn't quite ready to, to, to listen to that side of my brain, but that side of my brain was starting to take over because I was starting to do drugs and I was just starting to like, you know, self-medicate without, you know, consciously being like, I don't feel good. I'm trying to self-medicate. Now, looking back, I know that's what I was doing.

Oh, for sure. And, you know, uh, one thing that I know you have said before, and I completely agree, is like, Sometimes when the abuse is happening, you might not recognize it because our abusers, our abusers are master manipulators. They are like psychological wizards. They know exactly what to say and how to say it to start to control you. But, um, there's a saying, the body keeps the score. And it's like, you knew, your body knew some way, somehow this isn't right. And so you started to self-medicate when you were what, 16, 15, 16?

Yeah. Oh no, earlier. I started smoking weed when I, like, in my, probably later in my 13th year, earlier in my 14th year. Like, I was, I was really young by the time I was 15. I was doing ketamine and—

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I had ketamine, but it wasn't for like recreation. So the nerve disease I have, it's called complex regional pain syndrome.

Okay.

And one of the treatments that they try is they put you under anesthesia and they induce you with ketamine all day long. It's pretty crazy. It did not work. It's supposed to reboot your nervous system. It didn't work at all, but that's the only drug I've ever tried. And so when you say ketamine, I'm like, wow, you were doing— that's basically a horse tranquilizer. Talk about wanting to get knocked out, like numb out. So what were your parents thinking when you went from being this 11-year-old that was being asked to speak and knocking on doors and just getting signatures and being so responsible? They, they could— I'm sure they saw you starting to spiral down. What were they saying to you at this point? Or were they parents that kind of had blinders on and didn't notice?

I don't know if they saw me. I didn't really spiral. Like, I didn't— I definitely moved away from the advocacy work, but, you know, kids change a lot between the ages of 11 and 15, right? That's a huge time period to change. Your friends group— friend groups change, your interests change. You're really just trying on all these things to figure out who you are. So when I left, kind of moved away from the advocacy work, I didn't just suddenly start like, you know, wearing heavy black eyeliner and listening to angry music. And, you know, it wasn't a movie montage where I just like— Tumbled down into the, to the abyss. I still got really good grades. I was a really smart kid. My grades never sank below.

How did you manage that when you were doing drugs?

I hate to say this. This is okay. Let me, this is not me promoting drug use, but like I did drugs really responsibly in that, like the first time I remember doing ecstasy was at a house party, but like we had researched the type it was, we'd researched the most common effects. We were doing it like a quarter pill at a time, checking in with each other, making sure we were all drinking enough water. You know, like we checked to see what food or, or alcohol could mix with it. And so we weren't drinking at the same time. Like, I was a kid who was into research, so I was like, all right, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it the best. I like to be the best at things. So I did drugs that way as well. So at first it was very much like only For a special occasion. So, you know, in high school that was maybe a school dance or a house party. It wasn't consistently. And I kept that though. I like, I smoked weed all the time, but like harder drugs was just for a special occasion. That obviously got out of control. But even when I was doing meth when I was 20, uh, and I was doing it basically all day, every day, I was still the manager of 2 tanning salons. I had employees, I ran the salons, I You know, was a very functional addict.

Wow. So I guess, you know, there, it's like, um, I'm a recovering alcoholic and that's why they have the term functional alcoholic. Although I, I knew for me, there was a time I felt like I was holding it all together and, you know, on the outside trying to keep it all together, but on the inside I felt like I was dying. And I knew the gig was up when I had my My ex-husband's sister, who we're still really close, she was like, do you have a problem with drinking? And, and I was like, yeah, I do. And I just started crying. I was like, I need help. The gig's up. I need help. Was there a moment for you where it was like, okay, the gig is up? Oh, was it once the trafficking started with the drugs? I mean, I want to get to that part of your story. Too.

Yeah.

But I also want to know, there's so many questions I have. I also want to know like how the, the trafficking started as well. So here you are, you are managing 2 tanning salons while you're doing meth and doing these other drugs. You're, you know, in control of other people and their schedules, which I'm just blown away by. Was there a moment where it was just, All you thought, this is all too hard. I can't keep up this pace of doing meth and doing, working 2 jobs. And what, what was a turning point for you?

The, when my boyfriend almost killed me for the 3rd time, that was the human trafficking boyfriend. Yeah. That guy, that guy, that guy. Um, he, I got in a car accident. I got in a really bad car accident. I narrowly Survived it. Uh, I, not that I was so like so close to death from my injuries, but I'd gone off the road. I almost went into a concrete barrier. My car was on fire. I guess a trucker saw it and like pulled me out. I don't have much memory of this. And I don't have proof that he was behind it other than hearing the rumors that he was bragging that he had, um, messed with my car. And it had gone off the road when I was driving to work, like on a dry, you know, sunny morning, no reason for it to go off the road and it I pumped the brakes and they weren't working properly. And I like tried to turn a little bit and my car just went off the road. And that was the 3rd time he'd almost killed me.

And when I— how old were you when you started dating this guy?

I was 20. We dated for a total, uh, from January 2007, and I finally escaped him fully in the summer of 2007.

Wow. And how did you meet him?

He came into my tanning salon. He was, so he has a twin brother who I knew. He had been in jail for most of my late teenagehood, but I knew his twin brother because his twin brother was my drug dealer. And so when he got out of jail, I guess he'd heard about me or I don't know, he He'd heard my name. I'd heard his name. He came into my tanning salon. I remember that very clearly because I knew exactly who he was. I knew his twin brother. They're identical twins. So when he walked in, I had a pretty good idea of who he was. And I have an attitude problem. It's better now, but I certainly had an attitude problem then. And he was— I can't— he said, you know, don't you know who I— what did he say? Or he goes, I asked for his name to pull him up on our, on our system. Like, do you, knowing exactly who he was? And he was like, don't you know who I am? I'm fucking Chris Stairs. Right? And I was like, well, sir, I don't really care who you're fucking at this moment. I think you're in here for a tan. And like that, like attitude, he, you could just see, he was like, nobody talks to me like that, but also, okay.

Mm-hmm.

And from there he started coming in, visiting. He'd leave me little packages of meth, you know, he heated it. So, and I was like, oh, well, this is, this is romance at its finest. Right. So that's how we started dating. I guess he just started showing up and I gave him attitude.

Wow. And then how did you get into trafficking? How did that turn into him getting you to traffic?

So I didn't. know that what he did to me is consi— was considered trafficking until almost just over 10 years after it actually happened.

Really?

During the time I was with him, at no point did I think I'm being trafficked or sexually exploited or anything like that. I knew I didn't like it. At some point I knew I registered it as domestic violence, but I really thought of it as a series of my own bad choices because I knew who, who he was when he walked into my salon. He was town bad boy, town drug dealer. When I entered into a relationship with him, I did so with my eyes open. I thought, you know, like I knew he was violent, but it was certainly just part of a lifestyle I'd come to understand. And I had a lot of, you know, self-blame and hatred for what had happened with the childhood sexual abuse, which at this point, uh, had now, we'd ended up going to the police and I was now entrenched in the criminal justice system waiting to go to trial against, um, that man.

Oh, wow.

And I was just filled with like so much self-hatred because there was no way I could tell myself that that was some sort of clandestine relationship anymore. Now it was abuse and I was a sexual abuse victim and I had been for years and I was having a really hard time with that. So dating a guy who was as dangerous and violent as Chris was felt Right. To me, somehow.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, did the, the guy who sexually abused you, did he go to jail?

No, he, uh, killed himself after we went through pretrial.

Um, oh my gosh. Are you serious?

Yeah. He, we went through 3 days of pretrial. I was on the stand for a total of like I don't know, I think it was 12 hours or 14 hours or so. It was insane.

Oh my gosh.

And then we got a call saying that there was enough evidence to go to trial. And I remember thinking, wait, what? We were just— that wasn't trial. Like, it had been explained to me, but it just hadn't registered. Right before my birthday in 2007, so all this is happening, um, he killed himself. Wow.

You know, what's crazy is for so long I thought my stepdad would deny it. And my ex-husband is the one who actually confronted my mom. I was already living in California and it was an abusive relationship, but he got on the phone with my mom and he told my mom, do you know what your husband did to my wife? And he never denied it. My mom got on a flight to come. to California. When she got back, he had gone and was running for years and years and years. They, they would try to find him. They would think they'd find him and he'd be gone to another state. And I think that's— did you have like this fear that people wouldn't believe you or your parents would look differently about you or think differently about you from what had happened? Did you ever think, oh, who's going to believe me?

Yes, it was more—

I think that's common for—

it's, it's super common. And it's part of it is like you hardly believe yourself. Like even to this day, both the situations with the, the childhood sexual abuse and the trafficking, I have evidence, like I have proof, I know what happened, and I still am like, this sounds like a movie. If I think it sounds fake, Hell, someone else is bound to think it sounds fake. Like, do I even believe me? Was it that bad? Did it— did that happen?

Was it that bad? Yeah. Did it happen?

Yeah.

And sharing it, you know, on social media and stuff the way you do, it takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of work, of healing work to do on yourself before you can openly start sharing about this kind of thing. Have you— and social media can also be brutal. Now, I've never, I mean, I've talked about a little bit. I mean, I wrote about it in my book, but have you ever had people, especially I find on TikTok, like TikTok, people can come out of the woodwork and be kind of brutal. Have you ever had anybody who has come out and been like, oh, you're making this up, or I don't believe you, or been mean?

Oh yeah. Um, I honestly kind of dropped TikTok because the comments, it wasn't even that. It was like. I got comments of people being like, you must have been a really sexy 10-year-old or something like, and I'm just like, oh, oh, like I, no, I can't this. I, I, I had to step away. Like I get some mean comments on Instagram, but, but not that bad. But TikTok, some of the vile things that were said, I've just sort of stepped away from that platform because I don't have time or energy to To defend or, and you know, there is some things because I'm so honest and open about the fact that like, I thought I was in a relationship with this man. I was attracted to him. I, you know, I, I, I wanted his advances. And so I—

You were a little girl. You were a little girl.

Oh, of course. And, but I still have people commenting being like, well, then you can't, like, now you're just one of those people who cry rape. Like, you can't say it was assault if you wanted it. And I'm like, I was 13.

Wow.

Like, I can promise you, I can say it was assault. And it has taken me, you know, it took me 20-something years to be able to say that, to be able to say, like, I may have wanted him and, and thought I wanted what was happening and all of that. I was 13. A 13-year-old does not have, you know, a fully developed brain that can say yes. This is what I truly want. They have a brain that says, I want love. And I don't know what that looks like yet. And somebody who is older and wiser than me is telling me it looks like this, and it feels good. So love feels good. This feels good. This must be love.

Such a great way of explaining that. That is such a great way of explaining that. So when you are— you, you find out the news that He's committed suicide. How did that make you feel?

Everything.

I was gonna say, did you? Were you like, good, I'm glad he's dead, um, or responsible and guilty?

I was, I was pissed at first. Like, dare you take my closure away, right? Like, I just I had just kind of come to terms with the idea that I was going to have to get back up on that stand and the questions were going to be more invasive. And, you know, I was going to have to deal with that all over again. And I was kind of pumped myself up like, okay, if this judge decided there's enough evidence, then we, we have more than a note, like a 0% shot. Like somebody out there thinks this happened.

Yeah.

But at the same time, I was relieved because I didn't want to get up on the stand. I was terrified of him going to jail, knowing what child sex, what happens to child sex offenders in jail. Um, and he was someone who I'd known since I was 5 or 6 years old.

Wow.

He was, my whole family lives in Europe, so he was like my uncle. He was my family. He played, you know, with us in, in non-creepy ways as well. And.

So a lot of mixed emotion from everything from anger to sadness to, I mean, my goodness. And then what were your parents saying at this point? Did you have a lot of support from them during this, this time?

I did, uh, from my mom especially. The day, the night actually, we went to the police and I say we because as it turns out, he had Also assaulted his— a couple of his nieces. And when it came out that he was seeking more custody over his daughters who were in their, you know, I think they were, I don't know if they were 8 and 10 at the time or something, that's what spurred us to go to the police and say, okay, no, we have to, we have to report this. And so when we went to the police, it was like this one night, it was 3 o'clock in the morning. We'd had so much coffee. We just Shared all our stories. The, the girl's mom, his ex-wife, had begged us like, you girls, I'm begging you, go to the police, like help keep my girl safe. So got in my car, drove us to the police at 3:00 AM, like word vomited to this desk sergeant who was like, is this happening now? No, this happened before, you know, years ago, whatever. So they're like, okay, please come back to headquarters tomorrow at this time and you'll, you'll give a formal statement. So I drove and woke up my mom, literally woke her up, and I was like, I can't give you details, but I need you to come with me now and I have to go to the police station. And she was just like, okay, like, you know, throw clothes on, whatever, came with me to the police station and sat there and just was a support. My dad— my parents were going through a separation at this time and my dad was struggling with it really, really badly. So I had asked my mom to kind of like tell my dad the Coles notes, and then if he has questions, he can ask me. Him and I never really had that conversation. Years and years later when I got older and it came up every once in a while, he was sort of like, how come no one ever told me this happened? And I'm like, no, Daddy, like we, we did tell you, but I don't, like, I don't know if it ever really registered for him.

And he passed away years ago. I think it happened. Oh, he did.

Oh, yeah.

Sorry.

But he, he, like, I was already doing my anti-trafficking work, so it had come up a few times and he had known about my ex-boyfriend Chris because I'd gone through court against him at this point as well. And so my dad knew more about it, but like, he was, he was not super healthy at the end of his life. So there would be days where he'd be like crying, I'm so sorry I wasn't there. You know, I'm, your strength amazes me, blah, blah, blah. And days where he'd be like, Did I know this? And I'm like, yeah, dude, you knew. So having to tell my father that I was sexually assaulted as a child and then trafficked as a 20-year-old over and over and over again may be worse than it actually happening. That was, that was hell.

Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, it's like, I think, you know, I had told my dad when I was young and we didn't talk about it again. And then when I wrote my book before I went went to send it to the publisher, I let both my parents read the manuscript. And I'm like, I'm not writing this to hurt anybody. I'm writing about this to bring awareness. And my dad was like, oh, no, you know, I'm better with a hard copy. I'll just read it when it comes out. And I'm like, are you sure? That was real. That was really hard. I mean, you've got to— do you have 2 kids?

I do. Yeah.

2. Are you ever triggered when you see them approaching the age that you were about? Gosh, you want to protect them or in it? Because I was triggered and I thought, what is wrong with me? And my husband was even like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with you? And I realized I was trying to protect the little girl that I was in them. They're like the same age. And I was triggered when my oldest daughter turned Like 8, 9 years old. And again, I was triggered again when Ruby got to be that old and I could see her starting to grow up. Do you ever get triggered with your kids or triggered in general?

Well, my kids are 2 and a half and 4, so they're not getting close to that age yet. I'll let you know in a couple of years how that goes.

Yeah, I never even thought I would. I never in a million years thought that that would happen. And it was really strange when it happened. And then it happened again. And that's when I put it together, like, oh, this is what's happening. Yeah, that. And with some therapy. Yeah, a lot of therapy.

Yes. Well, interestingly, so when we potty trained my son, he's the older one, we decided to do the 3-day method. So you just, like, they're totally naked for the first day, and it gives them this feeling. I don't know. It worked, whatever. But the first day, Yeah, like 3 days and he was potty trained.

Oh my gosh. So for 3 days, you're just like, no diapers, nothing. You better go find a place to pee and poop.

Yeah, you have these potty stations set up and like, they're totally naked the first day. And then once they start getting it, you give them underwear, but like, so they can feel what it feels like if they, if they have an accident and it's wet. And then, you know, they, yeah, it, it, it would, it's a miracle.

Not, not that I'm planning on having anymore, but you know, I'll hope for grandkids.

Soon. You're gonna log that away for when that happens. But when we decided to do it, like I went into it and like I said, I'm still, so I said I was a research-based kid. I am still a research nerd, right? Like I collect school degrees. I love research. So when we decided to potty train, I researched and this is how I found this method. And going into it, I wasn't worried at all. I'm not squeamish about mess. I'm not, you know, I don't care. We live on Like a ranch property. My kids are filthy all the time. Like, that does not bother me. So I'm like, I got this. This is a good method for me. If he makes a mess, who cares? I'll clean it up. And then when we started that morning, we prepped him and everything, but he'd never really run around naked just because we do live on a ranch property. There's workers around. Like, it just wasn't something we did. So when we're like, you're gonna be naked today, bud. And he was like, no. And I'm like, oh no, no, it's gonna be fun. And he, so we take his diaper off and he starts screaming and fighting us being like, no, don't touch my penis. No, I I don't like this. And I just like, I ended up immediately like in the corner just crying, being like, put his clothes back on, just put his clothes back on, we'll find another way. Like, I can't do this. And my husband at the time had to like talk me down and be like, we're not hurting him. He's just literally never felt the cool breeze on his junk before. He's fine.

On his junk before.

Yeah, like, I can't do this. And so for 3 days, I was like in a, in a like highly emotional, slightly drunk, to be honest. Like, I was just like, I can't, I can't do this. And when I went to therapy, you know, because we did it over a long weekend. So that next week when I went to therapy, and I had no idea what was going on. And I talked to my therapist and she was like, You were massively triggered. You felt like you were assaulting your child the way you were assaulted.

Wow.

And so even if you didn't consciously think that, your body was just like, I can't participate in this. This feels horrible.

Yeah.

So yeah, that and things like that. There's certain triggers that I know I have that are super obvious, like a certain cologne or a certain car. If I see it, I'm like, yeah, gross. But that was not what I was expecting.

At all. That's pretty surprising, right? When you're triggered. And that's why I think it's so important to be able to talk to a therapist or somebody to help you just work those feelings out. Because I know I've been triggered and I'm like, dang it, man. I thought I healed this and there's another layer to heal and I just got triggered. Like, but at least now I can recognize it and move through it with certain tools. I think it's really, really important to share. Uh, with the listeners, like, what are some signs to look for? Like, if, you know, if you've got teenagers or, or maybe even younger, it could be younger, uh, teenage or younger kids, or even older, you were started, you know, were being trafficked at 20. What are some signs that you can look for in your kids that would be like, uh-oh? Because that was one of the reasons I asked you, like, well, did you— were you starting to spiral down? And you're like, no, man, I was getting Straight A's. I was a good student. I held 2 jobs. What are the signs? What can parents look for? Because it seems like it's really hard to see those signs unless they're really obvious sometimes.

I have a 2-part answer to this. Um, the first one is to the signs. Unfortunately, a lot of the signs of trafficking can be really similar to the signs of a cranky teenager. Because it's, you know, if I say someone who is pulling away from their parents, you know, is on their phone all the time, is, you know, keeping strange hours, um, has new friends that you don't know very well. Like, all I say these things and every, uh, parent of a teenager out there is going, oh my God, is my kid being trafficked? No, like, that's not what I'm trying to say.

But yeah, you're right though. Because teenagers, I mean, my goodness, my teenager. Is, is like one minute she's fun and just, you know, just bubbly, dancing, joking. And then another minute I'm like, oh my gosh, do you need food? Because where did my daughter go? And a lot of times it is because she needs food. She needs fuel.

But, um, yes.

Yeah. And so, yeah, I can see where that'd be hard to tell.

I would say, um, you know, If they come home with nails done, eyelashes done, or gifts, new clothes, shoes, purses, tattoos, things like this that can't be explained. They don't have a part-time job, or, you know, they're getting their nails done every week and you know it costs $70 or something for what they're doing and there's no way they can afford this. Those are things that I'd say are worth looking into further. If kids start, you know, they start falling asleep in class, they were normally a good student, they start falling asleep in class, could be anything. It could just be like massive hormonal changes, growth changes. It could also be maybe they are working at night. Maybe there's reasons that they're not getting a good sleep. It could be abuse in the home. It could be stress about a test. It could be a lot of things, but it's always worth asking more questions and digging in a little deeper. Now, the second part to that Is I actually want to turn it on its head a little bit because I always, always, always get asked for signs. What are the signs of my kid being trafficked? Right? I dare say, let's shift this conversation, you know, well before that. How can I give my kid— how can I not traffic-proof? I hate that term because it's an absolute, and then I fear that someone's going to come, you know, to me and be like, I traffic-proofed my kid and they were still exploited. Well, there's no— 100% anywhere, right? Like, I'm not, I'm not God. But rather than focusing, how can I collect all this information to find out if they're in trouble once they're already in trouble? Yes, we need that because there are kids who are already in trouble and we need those parents to start going, oh shoot, I did notice that. I need to ask more questions.

Mm-hmm.

But more, we need to shift the conversation to how do I traffic-proof, in quotation marks, my kid? How do I give them the tools to recognize when a relationship is unhealthy, when someone is love bombing me, when something is too good to be true, when someone is crossing my boundaries, and what can they do about it? How do they have the tools to respond to that in a way that is healthy and empowering for them?

Mm-hmm.

One last little piece to that is, and I, I'm bringing this up more and more now, is we have to stop teaching people how not to be victimized. Or stop only teaching people how not to be victimized and also start having the conversation of how not to victimize. Right.

That's, you know what I love that you say? I don't remember if I saw it in one of your posts or maybe on your website and say that where you said, stop focusing on why people, why people stay in, in, or in abuse and start focusing on why people are, why people abuse, actually abuse.

Yes. The amount of times you hear the question, why didn't she just leave?

Mm-hmm.

And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the question. I can give you that answer. I can give you that answer a million times over. Even if I've never met the person, I can throw out answers and one of them will be accurate for whatever situation. But that doesn't stop the abuse from happening. It stops the abuse from happening to her or to that victim. But it doesn't stop us figuring out why people think it's okay to treat other human beings like that.

Mm-hmm.

If we truly want to see a world where sexual exploitation doesn't exist, we have to stop pulling people out of the water and stop teaching people how not to become victims and start teaching why it's not okay to victimize other humans. Why is it not okay to act in sexually nonconsensual ways, why it's not okay to sell humans for profit. That is the crux of the issue. You unravel that, which I'm not pretending is a thing we'll do by the end of this year, this decade, this century. But if we don't start working on that, we're never going to see the end of it.

That's so powerful. So true. And that's why the work that you're doing Is so important. And now I can, I can understand why a lot of—I mean, I can understand why it's scary for people to get out or to leave. And one of the quotes that you had is exact. It resonated so much with me. It says she wasn't looking for a knight; she was looking for a sword. And I remember when I finally got the courage to speak up and say what was happening, and nothing was done about it. And in that moment I thought, well, I'm going to fight him off myself. And I did. And that's the last time he ever touched me. But that really, really hit home. And I think it's important for people to know, like, you have to be willing to save yourself and do whatever it takes to do that. But if you're, you know, if, if you've got lower self-esteem, you don't have confidence. Like I was all those things. Awkward, buck teeth, really, really, really skinny. And so I feel like I didn't have a lot of self-confidence. And, um, I think when, when I read that quote, I was like, yeah, you know, I started taking Krav Maga, Muay Thai, kickboxing, um, regular boxing. I started running. I started getting as strong as I could. What were some of the things that you did to start empowering yourself and to strengthen your mindset and your emotions and your body? What were some of those things that— other people could do too?

Listening for first was admitting that I had been victimized. That was, that was really hard because the word victim kept getting taken, kept getting taken away from me. You know, I'd go to rape crisis centers or I'd get a new therapist or, well, very well-meaning humans. And I'd say, I'm a victim of sexual assault. And they say, oh no, honey, you're not a victim. You're a survivor. And I'd be like, okay. But all right, so victim's a bad thing. Victim's a bad word. So that almost delayed my healing for a long time because—

Yeah.

Because I had told myself stories about what had happened to me. I told myself I was in a relationship, this clandestine relationship, right? And then when I, when it went to the police and it was like, oh no, you're a victim of sexual abuse, it was like, oh, okay, this is, I have to, I have to wear this. And this is really, really hard for me to wear this title. And just as I was trying it on, All these well-meaning victim services people kept being like, no, no, no, honey, you're not a victim. You're a survivor. And I was like, okay, victim is bad. We don't want to be a victim.

Oh, and then you know what? Some people say survivor's bad.

I know. And then there's—

I mean, you know, I mean, I'm serious. Like I, I, and I, when I was reading through all your information, I see the words victim and I see the word survivor and it, it like kind of triggered me a little bit because I did this one therapy and they were like, no, Don't you're not a survivor. You're not a victim. And then they're like, and you're not a CRPS warrior either. You're not a war. That's not that's a label. And if you say you're a warrior, then you're going to have to keep fighting and fighting and fighting, and your whole life is going to be a fight. And so you're not a survivor. You want to be a thriver. You know, you're not a victim. You're the victor. You know what I mean? And I know words are powerful, but um. I'm glad that you continued to do healing work and moved past that.

I will say to that, words are absolutely powerful. Personal autonomy is more powerful. So to all the well-meaning therapists, counselors, victim services workers, help anybody in the helping social services profession, or even just friends talking to friends, if someone Says, I'm a survivor, or I'm a victim, don't tell them what they're not. Ask them about why they use that word. People who have been victimized in any way, whether it's a home invasion or a sexual assault or a car theft or a whatever it is, if you have been the victim of something, you have had your autonomy taken from you. You have had your choice of how you want to exist in this world. Someone Took that and turned it on its head. And what you need is to learn how to regain that, learn how to regain that you have control over your world, over your life, and you deserve that control. Even if you feel like you handed it away, depending on your situation, or, you know, it was taken away, you need that back. So when people come in and say, you're not a victim, you're a victor, you know, you can't use that term because then you'll always be fighting. You know what? Fighting makes me feel strong. I want to always be fighting. I like the word warrior. I will use it. Let me use it. If in 10 years I go, oof, this word now feels heavy, I don't want it anymore, that's my choice to make. That's not someone else's choice to make. That is where I say, like, when it comes to healing, whether you are someone who is a professional caregiver or you are just a caregiver or you're a friend, let people heal how they want to.

Mm-hmm.

Healing for me, when I started healing, everything out there looked like yoga and pastel colors and soft tones and cocked heads of like, are you okay? You know, everything okay? And I was like, yo, honestly, I just, I want to drink some whiskey and punch things. Like, I'm angry. I want to be allowed to be angry. And then I don't want— my healing doesn't look like pastel colors and yoga. It looks like lifting heavy weights and getting stronger and feeling strong and listening to angry music and Allowing myself to giggle and be angry and all of those parts of me to exist. And I think that's where I found healing. And the other part I would say is in recognizing that, that quote, you know, that she wasn't looking for a knight, she was looking for a sword. I'm gonna use the word angry again, but when I disclosed, anytime I disclosed what had happened to me to a new boyfriend afterwards, their reaction was always the same. You know, where is he? I'm gonna go kill him. I'm gonna, I'm gonna kill that guy. And I'm like, you did. Um, you can't. Um, but like, you know, thanks. But that always made me really angry because I was like, I don't need you to go, to go be my savior from that long ago. What I need you to do is to, the next time you see your buddy acting a fool at the bar, I need you to say something to him. I don't need you to go into my past and fight my demons for me. I fought them. We're good. I'm here. I need you to make the world safer for me to live in. And you do that by confronting your buddies or your coworkers or other, uh, you know, problematic men in your life when they say problematic crap and you aren't willing to confront them because you don't, you know, want to upset the apple cart or it's just a joke, man. Yeah.

Just a joke, man. Yeah.

Just a joke, man. Well, if you're willing to, you know, somehow find a time machine and go back and murder someone for me, then you need to be willing to say, dude, that's fucked up. You can't say that shit to your friend. That is more helpful. So yeah, no, I don't need a knight. I need my own sword and I need people who are willing to speak up in uncomfortable situations.

Yeah. And I know you speak all over the place. And you're raising awareness. You also have something called Community Heroes that you have. Can you tell us how somebody can be a Community Hero? Speaking of knights and swords.

So trying to explain to my small children what I do for work is complicated, and they're not at a developmental space where they can understand it. But I one day explained it to them by saying, mommy trains superheroes. Mommy works with superheroes and she helps make, turn people into superheroes. 'Cause they, they can understand that. And for me, that means, you know, anybody from law enforcement who are willing to be told how to do their job a little bit better by a civilian. You know, law enforcement don't always love to be trained by people who are not law enforcement. I get it. I don't know the ins and outs of your job. I don't know what it's like to walk out there every day. And, you know, put yourself at risk for a community. But when they're willing to say, hey, I also don't know what it's like to be controlled and exploited. Can you tell me what your experience was with law enforcement when you did come in contact with them and how I can be the person you needed at that time?

Wow.

That makes them a hero. Somebody in the community who's like, hey, I would love to host a dinner and have you come by and talk about how to navigate, you know, children who are just getting online, preteens or whatever, whatever age it is, and how we keep them safe. You're now a hero. You are doing things to make your community safer in a way that honors, you know, your abilities, your boundaries, your resources, whatever that is. So for me, that's what a community hero means, is someone who is willing To buy the book, host the dinner, ask the questions, confront the misinformation, even if it's at a party, you know, and it's supposed to be fun. And human trafficking is probably not the topic that people think they're going to be talking about unless you invite me to your party, at which point you will absolutely be talking about human trafficking at some point. But it's— those are the people who are going to change this world. So those are the community heroes.

Well, you are a hero and you also have co-founded a nonprofit, which is based right here in the United States. Can you just tell us, I know we're running out of time. Thank you for going over a little bit. Do you have time to tell us about that a little bit?

I do. And I would absolutely love to. Uprising is, I often refer to it as my first baby. We got our 501 6 days before my son was born, my first actual baby.

And it's a lot. And oh my goodness, putting together, because I've actually thought about doing something to help with people who have complex regional pain syndrome. And I'm like, wow, it's, it's a, it's a job. So congratulations on that. What year was that?

Uh, 2019.

Okay. Wow. That's amazing what you're doing.

So Uprising, our focus is empowering communities to fight trafficking through awareness, education. Um, we work with law enforcement, training law enforcement, doing sting operations to, um, teach them more how to, I guess, dealing with buyers and understanding that prostituted people are not always choosing to be there. We work in communities in prevention. Our focus is really in prevention. And so we do that. We work with kids, youth. We had a summer camp, superhero summer camp, um, teaching kids different age groups, age-appropriate ways to understand healthy relationships and consent and boundaries and online safety and all of those things. So Uprising is, um, like I said, it's my first baby. And my co-founder, Terri Markham, is the reason that I actually found out that I was trafficked 10 years after it happened. So—

Wow.

She's the one who, who sparked this Knowledge in me. And so when, when I found out, when she, like, she opened my eyes to that, I remember thinking like, how the— if I didn't know, and I've been through court against my ex, so there was a criminal investigation. At this point, I have 3 degrees in the helping field. I've worked for 10 years in the social services field. And I, I didn't know. How the hell is anyone else supposed to understand trafficking? Well, let's, let's fix that. And that's where Uprising was born from. Mm-hmm.

Oh, wow. That's, that's amazing. Well, thank you for the work that you do. Where can people find out more on how to support Uprising, how to have you come and speak, and just find out more about you and what— in your work and what you do? Where— what's the best place for people to go?

Best place is Instagram, uh, @thelaughingsurvivor. Bear with me, uh, I am currently preparing for a TEDx talk, uh, in January. So my, my Instagram is a little quiet right now because I'm a single mom with 2 small children trying to do a million things at once. But follow me on Instagram because you will see a lot more from me there. Um, my website is at, is, uh, www.thelaughingsurvivor.com. And you can actually, uh, throw your email in because I'm just finishing up my memoir and I hope to be getting that published in the near future. And then—

That's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm on the TED Talk too. So when is that? In January?

Yeah, January 20th, 2024 in Surrey, British Columbia. So I'm, I'm so excited about that, but it is an amazing undertaking.

Are you, uh, like I, I just was like a month before my TED Talk, I was pacing back and forth in my office nonstop going over the talk in my head, walking at the barn while my daughter would be riding her horse and I'd be walking around doing laps and it looked like I was talking to myself. Are you to that point where you're just practicing?

Hell no. I am at the rewrite. Like, I'm on rewrite 7 now. I'm still on the script, and I actually have to have my script finalized in less than 2 weeks. So at that point, I'm sure I will turn into the talking to myself, walking in circles person.

Yeah, I think it was like a month before where I was like, oh my gosh. And it was crazy because I had never completely written out a full script before. Until I did a TED— well, I had not really done much speaking before I did my TED Talk. So, oh my goodness, I can't wait to see yours. That's amazing. And I'm just so glad that we got to connect. And if you're going to visit your co-founder out here in Texas, I hope you'll come see me.

Well, she lives in Wyoming now, so she's running the show in Wyoming. But she's from Texas. She's from Texas. So I don't know, something— you never know what might bring me out to Texas. So I would absolutely— if I find myself out there and I know absolutely nothing of the geography, So I might be like, hey, I'm visiting here, and you'll be like, that's 12 hours away, but cool. But I'd be happy to shoot you a message and be like, I'm going to be in your state. Is it near where you are?

Okay, good. Let me know. Let me know. But thank you so much for the work that you do, for being here to be on the show. I've been looking forward to this. And y'all, thank y'all so much for tuning in. I appreciate you being here. It's because of you listening and you downloading the podcast that you've made us a top 1% podcast. So thanks for tuning in. And, um, take a screenshot and you can tag it on your Instagram. Me, tag me @AmberlyLagoMotivation and tag Alexandra @TheLaughingSurvivor. And, um, when I see that, I always reshare it on my story. So thanks again for tuning in and thank you for being here, Alexandra.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. I'll see y'all next week.