Perimenopause Uncovered: Myths, Symptoms, and Solutions

Welcome to the Yoga Liberty Podcast. My name is Angelica Govaert. I'm known as Yoga Liberty on social media, and I am joined today by the lovely Megan. She has created a course to help women who are in perimenopause deal with their symptoms and navigate through this change in our life, which I'm pretty excited about because I'm actually postmenopausal. I don't have— my symptoms are getting less every day, which is pretty exciting, but I had a very difficult perimenopause and there was no one to help me. And there was no, um, there was really like, like my grandma would say things like, well, I just worked extra and I didn't have time to have that happen. So there was no one to guide me. So I'm excited to bring Megan on today and give us some guidance on how you can, um, deal with your perimenopause symptoms and how you can just navigate this change in your life. Welcome Megan. And thank you for joining us today.

Thanks for having me, Angelica. I'm So excited to be here and just hearing you say those things to start with. It's like, I think we all feel that way and was just like totally blindsided by this concept of perimenopause. Like who had even heard of the term perimenopause before the past couple of years? Like, wait, it was a thing all along and nobody told us. What's that about?

Right. Like, I didn't even know what that word was until I was like deep in experiencing it. Like all of a sudden I went from having very short, normal periods my entire life to these like Really painful, heavy bleeding periods where I, you know, like at one point I was like crying, the pain was so bad. And Paul was like, is it really that bad? And I was like, yeah, it really is. It really is that bad.

I was a couple of months ago, I was like curled up in bed in the middle of the night and I was like whimpering and like rocking myself. And my husband woke up and he was like, what are you doing? And I was like, it hurts So bad, like I can barely breathe. And I never had cramps like that before. I didn't think PMS was a thing. Maybe I had a little bit like when I was a teenager, but I don't know. I, I didn't really think about it in my 20s and 30s. And then all of a sudden I hit 40 and I was like, this PMS is real. These cramps are real. Like the bleeding is real. Like what is going on? And perimenopause is second puberty. So if you think about what's happening, that's literally what is happening. The symptoms are the same. The process is the same. Instead of just starting to create, you know, your menstrual cycle, you're stopping it, but it's going— you're going through the exact same process. And nobody ever told us that that would happen again. And it's also really cruel that it's happening again, because we made it through it once. Why are we going through it again? But at least creating the awareness and knowing that it's going to happen is huge.

Yeah. I think it's, you know, I don't know when you were born, but I'm Gen X. Um, and so I think our generation is just like, We don't really care about like all the, you know, like our parents were so about appearances and what other people thought. And I think we just don't care about that as much. And so, um, it, we've been, it's allowed us to be very vocal about what our needs are and how we navigate like our lives, you know, how we, what, how we react to things. And, and I think that, you know, our parents really hid from a lot of stuff.

Well, and I think that comes to your point is like your grandma just being like, I don't know, whatever. We just powered through it. And I, That's what they taught our parents, right? Is that, and especially as women, your thoughts and feelings kind of don't really matter, right? You're there to take care of everyone else and you have to just kind of white-knuckle through it and you're last on the list of, of what's important. So yeah, you might be in terrible pain or you might be experiencing depression for the first time or any number of wild symptoms. You, A, didn't realize that it was perimenopause and B, like, who's really gonna listen to you? Does anyone really care? Like, you're supposed to put yourself. last. And I think that's what we're taking control of as Gen Xers. We're, we're over it. We're like, I don't need to white-knuckle my way through this. I don't need to hide. There are things that can help me. I'm not alone. Like, this is BS. I matter. And I'm done, done hiding. And I'm done, like, trying to make everybody else happy. And I just, I want to like actually feel good.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Having someone that validates your symptoms is really important. Like I had all these weird symptoms that I didn't know were associated with perimenopause. Like I got gallstones, very, very painful. Didn't actually, did not know what was happening. In fact, ChatGPT told me in capital letters to go to the hospital because I was like, I just have indigestion. You, I was like, Paul, can you make me a mint tea? I know that will make it go away. And ChatGPT was like, girl, it ain't going to go away. You need to go to the hospital. And then the hot flashes for me, I was a super flasher. So they've actually, I'm happy to report that I have now been in menopause. Now November would have been 1 year. So this is being filmed in April. So I don't know when it's actually going to come out, but it's being filmed in April. So that's, you know, like another, like what, 6 months or something. And I do still have some night sweats, but they're not as bad. I actually had a night where I only woke up once in the middle of the night, which was pretty exciting because I really went through where I was like, right, waking up like multiple times, like not getting any sleep. Like, uh, my staff Tiana and Francesca, they talked me into getting an Oura Ring and I was like, what's the point of this? Of course I don't know I don't sleep good. Like, I don't need to spend $500 to know that. Thanks anyway. So I returned it and got a TikTok Oura Ring knockoff for $40. It's actually better than this stupid Oura Ring anyway.

Um, but— You don't need technology to tell you you're not sleeping.

It's been happening for years. Right. I don't need that.

It's been happening for years. Like the question is, how do I fix it? I don't need something to tell me it. How do I fix it?

Yeah.

That's, that's really the question.

I wasn't really—

The symptom thing is hard because even you go to the hospital with gallstones, right? And your doctor's going to treat you like any other patient, whether they're 20 or 70, whatever, they're going to treat you for gallstones. They're not looking at it as perimenopause and doctors just aren't trained on it either. Most med schools, it's like one day of training about menopause. And what is totally scary about that is women spend a third of their lives on average in post-menopause and perimenopause leading up to that can last upwards of a decade. So we're looking at almost half of a woman's life is spent in this period and doctors aren't trained on it. And so they're, they're gonna ignore the symptoms or they're gonna misdiagnose you. Or I had a doctor just tell me, she was like, well, if you just wait until menopause, it'll be fine. And that's not a good answer. That is not acceptable.

A doctor tell me that he wouldn't run tests on my, to see my hormone levels because he was like, what does it matter? You're just gonna find out that you're in perimenopause. Ugh.

And that is so common. And I feel like that's really the frustration. And yeah. Okay. To be fair, you test your hormones on one day, you see what it looks like on that one day. So like you really have to test it over a period of time so you see a pattern, but like. Just to dismiss it and be like, whatever, we already know you're in perimenopause. What does this tell us? Well, it tells you a lot of things because it's not just estrogen. It's a wide number of hormones. It can also tell you how far you are into your journey as well too. And you can see what's happening to actually get the help that you need to feel better. Like, why is that? Why is that so hard?

Yeah. I feel like, so when I was in college, I was the president of the feminist coalition and I spoke at a NOW event and like, And of course you are. I have seen throughout my entire life, like a systematic, like, you know, misogynist environment where women are always second. And, you know, like none of the medical stuff's done on us. So of course they don't know about perimenopause. Why would they know about perimenopause and menopause? Because women's job is just to be quiet and we're not tested, you know, like, and none of The science is done on us because none of the funding goes for us. And, you know, all the funding for every— see, that's another big problem. And then I think people don't realize is that like, there isn't just like studies being done on things to make our lives better. If that was the case, they would be doing like gene therapies and understanding like how our genes interact with things. And people would know like a broader insight on like how I, like, I have MTHFR. Like people would know like what that means and how that affects You know, like why you shouldn't have supplemented breads and things like that, because you can't methylate certain vitamins and things like that. Right. But we don't, we're not studying those kinds of things. What we're studying is what the pharmaceutical companies will, will give money to, to study. It's not what—

And the thing they make money off of, right? Like we can study erectile dysfunction all day.

Right.

Tons of people study that.

They can make money off of it.

Because they can make so much money off of it. But fun fact, like there's going to be a billion women over the next 10 years, a billion women going through their menopause transition. And I will say, we are ready to put out money for things that are actually going to help us. And that's where the supplement market is really kind of taking over because it's unregulated, right? Anyone can create a supplement and put it out there and say, this is going to help you in perimenopause. And we're all like, take my money.

I know. Like, okay, then now that also brings us into HRT, which I didn't want to do because my mom died of a heart attack at 61. And there's conflicting evidence on whether or not HRT causes strokes and heart attacks. I mean, there just is conflicting evidence. Like now they're saying it doesn't. And they, you know, in the past they've said it has, and I've known people that specifically had strokes from it. So like, I just wasn't— me and Paul had a conversation about it. I just wasn't willing to take the risk. That's not to say that someone else shouldn't do HRT because this is a personal decision. You know, and it's not to say that it's bad.

I, even as a menopause coach, like I don't talk about it. I don't try to push it. I'm not a medical expert. And if people ask, I'm honest. I am on menopause hormone therapy right now, and it has really changed my life in such a positive way. But I've also had friends that have like, A, not been able to take it for medical reasons, or B, it did not work for them and it was not a pleasant experience. So like, that's why it's so important to find a good medical professional that can walk you through that, that also understands the real science. Because like, yes, the studies that were done in the '90s, they gave us really scary information that we now know was not correct. And there's been— the difference between oral estrogen and, and transdermal estrogen is, is huge. And, and the risk factors are a lot less than they were with what they were studying in the '90s that we know, like, some of those things are problematic and there, there's new versions that we can do now that are less scary. But yeah, it's such a personal thing.

Yeah.

And that's such a great point because everyone's perimenopause journey Is different.

Can you tell me what transdermal means? Because I don't know that everybody's going to understand what that means.

Yeah, that's the patches. So there are these little tiny medical patches and you change them out twice a week and it goes through your skin. So instead of taking an oral pill, it goes through your skin. So it's not like— I'm not a medical expert, but it's not getting into your bloodstream the same way. It's not affecting the things the same way. So like people with Migraines with auras, for example.

Oh, I have those.

Yeah. A lot of people do, especially at this age. My sister has 'em as well too. And she never, she just, she just went into postmenopause. She never got menopause hormone therapy because her doctor was like, well, we can't give this to you because you have migraines with auras. And that's what the studies had already said. I asked my doctor about it. Um, and she was like, no, if you look at the studies now, if you use transdermal, it's gonna be okay. It was all of the oral, which is all they had for decades. Right. Our moms, if they took, if they took HRT, it was all just pills, right? And so now we have creams, we have patches, we have lots of different, uh, there's rings that can be inserted vaginally. Like there's lots of different things depending on what your symptoms are. And it's not just this pill we take that has all these side effects that were really scary.

Yeah.

So that's why it's important to find someone who understands all of this and they're not just like, Listening to the studies that were done 30 years ago. And a lot has changed since then. So the transdermal patches are really what most people get now because it's, it's easy and it's a lot safer.

Interesting. Yeah. I didn't know that. I actually just assumed that all HRT was a shot.

Oh no, it's, it was pills forever. Then, oh wow. There are a lot of creams, especially testosterone is huge right now. Testosterone's usually a cream. Or it's like, uh, uh, like remember Depo? You know, like it was like the, in the things they insert in your arm, like it's like pellets that they implant in your arms. Um, so there's lots of different variations, but yeah, the patches are huge. And like there's lots of funny posts out on the internet cuz the patches leave like a sticky residue on your skin and you know, you're changing it twice a week.

Mm-hmm.

So there's people that are like, this is the tattoo of our generation. It's just like, The residue that's left on your stomach from changing these patches so often. So yeah, the patches are, they've been a game changer in a really positive way. And I think the more people just, I hope, understand about that and at least their doctors are understanding.

Well, what do you, what do you, when you say like the going on HRT, which for those of you who might not know, we just said HRT and we didn't say hormone replacement therapy so that everybody understands what we're talking about. When When you say it like dramatically changed everything for you, like what, what does that mean for you? Like, how did it change?

That's so funny. I just recorded a post about it this morning in my bed. And my husband was like, are you crazy? Are you filming content in bed? And I was like, yeah, cause I'm talking about the aha moment I had that led me to realize that I was in perimenopause. And before I tell you that, we're talking about HRT and that's what most people call it. And it's really kind of a misnomer. And so we're trying, they're trying to change the language now to menopause Hormone therapy because you're not replacing your hormones. Because that's what a lot of people say is they're like, well, your hormones are supposed to—they are going down naturally. Why would I want to replace them? And you're not replacing them; you're just giving yourself a boost, right? You're still everything is still going to decline, but instead of it being this rapid sharp thing, we're kind of evening it out so it's more of a slight decline instead of a wild roller coaster drop. And so it makes things a little more smooth, and your symptoms aren't going to. For me, I had, there were always 2 days a month where I felt horrible. Like I never wanted to get out of bed. I hated myself. I hated my body. I hated my life. I hated my job. I hated my husband. I hated the world. I just, I did not want to leave bed and I had never really struggled with depression or anything like that before. So I was like, I, this is foreign. I don't understand why I feel this way. And I thought it was just burnout. I had a really stressful job. And of course I'm just like, well, I'm just going to, Suck it up, right? I'm gonna just tell myself it's okay, it's fine. I'm just gonna, it's all fine. And that doesn't work, right? So I started tracking my periods, which I'd never done before, cuz I don't know, I had really regular periods. I didn't think about it. So I started tracking my periods and I tracked those symptoms. Like what day do I feel like utter garbage and not wanna get outta bed? Like what days are like my breasts tender or whatever symptoms I was dealing with? And I did this over a course of a few months. I saw a pattern. It was the exact same day every month. Day 20 of my cycle was the day that I did not wanna leave bed.

Interesting.

So then I went to my doctor. She tested my hormones like every few days over the course of a cycle. I was at the phlebotomist, I felt like every day, but then she created a graph and we could see on day 20, my estrogen tanked.

Wow.

That was what was causing me to feel that way. It wasn't just because I was being lazy or I was just like bloated that day or whatever. There was a, a literal chemical reaction happening. My estrogen was dropping so intensely. And she was like, oh, okay, well let's just get you these patches. They're little, it's a little tiny bit of estrogen. It's not a lot. It's not gonna bring you back up to where you were, but it's gonna, you're not gonna drop as far. And let's see how that goes. And that was, A year and a half ago, almost 2 years ago. And I, I don't experience those days anymore.

Thank God that you had a great doctor. I did not have a good doctor.

And most people don't. I'm very thankful for my doctor. She's also an endocrinologist. So she studies hormones and she's a gynecologist, which I'm like, is like the most beautiful thing. But for those people who are frustrated about finding a doctor, um, you can just go to menopause.org, the Menopause Society for the US. And there's a list of doctors that are like They are knowledgeable on the subject and they're there to help you out. But it's hard to find someone, especially like if you're in a rural place like you, Angelica, like you're not gonna have a whole bunch of options, but there's telehealth options as well now too. So like—

There's literally one doctor that has openings in my town.

And that's why it, we are kind of in the menopause gold rush right now. Like everyone's talking about it and everyone's trying to like monetize off of it as well too.

Menopause gold rush.

Menopause gold rush. It's real. Welcome. But at the same time, that's really great for us, right? Like, yes, people are trying, there are some shady people out there that are trying to just make a buck, but then there's also options that didn't exist before through telehealth and through all of the things that we have now. So yeah, you have to be a little leery, but be smart, do your research. But there's also resources like the Menopause Society as well too. Anyway, that's, yeah, I, I know that those patches have made my life a lot better. I had heart palpitations all the time, like things like that that were like, Really? Yeah, definitely helped, but it's, it's not just one thing, right? As we know with like anything, you're not gonna find a magic pill to fix everything like that. That patch didn't fix everything. It fixed those depressive days, but I still have all sorts of other symptoms. Right. And that's why—

Welcome to being a woman. It's fun.

It's, it is a wild ride. Like it's never just one thing, right? It's like, okay, well we, we fixed this one thing. Here's the 17 other things that I, I brought. Can we, can we try to tackle another one of those? So it's, it's kind of finding the right formula for you. Right. And I, I feel like the thing, you know, it's like, that was really helpful for me. I also take progesterone before bed and I sleep like a baby now. So that was another one.

Did that get rid of your night sweats? No.

No, that was what wakes me up.

In fact, do you know what I do sometimes is we have an air mattress set up in the loft and because the loft gets a lot of airflow because it's open to the downstairs. So Air will, cold air will come into the air mattress. And so I'm like sleeping on cold air and that's actually helped me a lot. Now it doesn't really help my back to sleep on an air mattress, but guys, right? So it's all the rules, you know, they're like, don't look at screens, but I'll like wake up in the middle of the night and I start watching my YouTubes on Go Back Asleep with Jason Stevenson.

Yeah, you know, but you know that, you know, that looking at screens is just, it's going to activate your brain. That is not—

I know, girl, but I gotta, I listen to my YouTube meditations and they make me feel good. I gotta do what I gotta do.

It's true. And like I said, everything is different for everyone, right? I'm a fan of the like $20 box fan you can buy at any hardware store. And I just put it at the end of the bed and I just have it turned on high. Like, even when I travel, if I'm driving somewhere, box fan is coming with me. I go camping, I have a little mini fan that like, uh, I can like plug into, you know, my little charger or batteries is at the bottom of the air mattress in my tent because it's like, I can't sleep without like the $20 box fan blowing on me.

Well, I'm still thinking about the menopause gold rush as a, as someone who lives in the Wild West. I, um, I love gold rushes. So you, you're very knowledgeable about menopause. You have a great amount of knowledge. You've got certifications around coaching and helping people with menopause. And you specialize in helping people with actually yoga and menopause. And so you wanted to like bring this together. It was kind of your dream to bring this together in a way that you could give it to the public and help people out. And so you found us and decided to create an online course. Can you tell me a little bit about why you made that decision to work with us? And what drew you to do this?

Yeah. So I do a lot of in-person menopause yoga workshops and I teach classes in studios and coach people and, you know, all of those things. And, but it's limited to the people that I see one-on-one here in Chicago. And I have friends and people I've met that are online and they're just like, I wish I could do these things with you. And I realized that there were people out there that really wanted to experience the things that I was offering. And I was limiting myself to just like the 15 people at a time that I had in the studio. And I want to be able to share this with as many people as possible. And my friends are in Chicago that want to learn these things as well too. So that's why I was just like, I need to— the internet is beautiful. Like, I need to get on this thing. Like, this is— why limit myself to like what's in front of me? Also, I love traveling and like my, my dream is to like live on a lake somewhere in like the wilderness and like, like, well, okay, if I get online, then I can do those things as well too. I'm not stuck, although I love where I live, like I'm, but I'm not like stuck having to go into the studio to do these things. So I think it's, once again, it's a combination, like talking about, okay, well yeah, the HRT helped, but I needed other things as well too. Like I think being in person has its beautiful things, but then like being online as well too is you can meet millions of people, not a dozen people, but literally millions of people. So why, why stop there? So I don't know. I probably saw like 100 of your ads. You know the statistics, like you have to see like it like 100 times before you click on it. And I, I don't know. I saw your fun glasses or whatever. and was like, all right, I like this woman. Let's, let's, let's see what this is about. And so, I don't know. And then you and I chatted and here I am, you know, it's, um, it's been a fun ride.

Remember our initial call? And I was like going through the steps that I go through to talk to people. And we, we have like, like that call is pretty much the same, like with everybody. I mean, like we ask people to share why they want to go online first. And then we, if we think it's a good fit, we'll, we'll tell them, you know, exactly the steps of what we do and, and how it's all done. And so that part is all— the second half is pretty much the same all the time. But I remember like you were like very decided already. You were like, and I felt like I already know you and I know this is what I want to do and I'm ready to just jump in. And like most people, you have to be like, this is who I am and this is what, you know, we do and answer a lot of questions. You're like, I'm ready. Let's just do this.

Yeah, no, I could tell. Like, I feel like not, not even just like the cool glasses, but I feel like you and I are like Sort of filterless, right? And we, we're gonna just tell it like it is, right? We are, we are out there to put our message out there, and if there's haters, they're gonna hate, and that's fine. And like, I just feel like we are trying to keep it real. I always talk about keeping it real, and I'm not gonna sugarcoat it, and I'm not gonna like tell you there's some magic fix or whatever. And, and you're not either. Like, we're, we're gonna be brutally honest. And I, I could tell that you and I were on the same page that way. Like the BS, the BS meter was, cuz I can be really good at BSing and I, so I can smell it. Uh, and yeah, I could tell that you and I were on the same page as far as that, like brutal honesty.

I wanna say one thing I think that's really important in alignment with that. Um, and I appreciated that about you from the very beginning. You are someone that did really well in our ecosystem and really took advantage of everything and applied it and, um, created what you needed to create. But one thing is that I think even though we say a number of times that this isn't something that's going to get you rich quick, you're not going to see results right away. It's a business. It's going to take time. It could take years. Even though I share my story where it took me like literally 2 years to be able to make a living doing this, there are people that still come into our ecosystem and believe that they're going to spend a few months with us and then they're going to pop out and have this like business and quit their job and everything. And I, one thing I've really appreciated about you is that you knew straight away that wasn't the case, that you were going to have to work really hard, that you were building an ecosystem to then, then do more with. And you've gone on to get continuing education, which is the same thing I did, which is why I've been successful because I built my system. And then I actually worked with 2 additional coaches to like get to where I was. And then I still today, like I just spent $50,000 to be in a mastermind with Russell Brunson so that I could continue my education. And you and I talked a little bit before this about what I learned at the last session, which for me has been just mind-blowing. And it's the reason why I do so well is because I keep investing in my education. And that's something that you've done as well. Can you talk to me a little bit about like why you understood that that was the reality and that that was important in your like managing expectations when you go into any program, whether— I know you're working with, oh gosh, what's his name? It's the lady from Beachbody.

Rock Johnson.

Rock Johnson, right? Right. So like, you, you know, like you understand that, like, that there are different steps along the way and, and why do you think you felt that way? And, and you understand that?

Yeah. Okay. Well, first of all, my husband owned his own business for a long time. And so when I decided to do this on my own, when I left my corporate job, I was like, oh, I'm just going to go work for another company. I don't want to do this. And then I worked with a coach and I was like, okay, I think I want to try this. He's like, it's so hard. It's going to take you years and it's going to be tough. And I know that, and it can be lonely and it can be isolating, all of those things. I'm aware. And I'm in that place right now, right? And, and you just have to trust the process. But I also know as much as I can educate myself, which I love, I could just take courses all the time and just like learn and learn and learn. 'Cause I just love, I love that. 'Cause I hate feeling complacent. Because you think you know everything, but then once you hit that spot and you think you know everything, that's when things start to fail, right? Like, 'cause we know we don't know everything. The humility, the being humble, it's part of being a yoga teacher. There's always people that know more, right? There's experts out there on everything. And with the internet, with what we have now, you have access to pretty much everyone, right, that is willing to put their thing out there. So why should I try to like educate myself when I can, I have access to people that are experts and they can teach me what it is that worked for them. And I can glean from that what's gonna work for me, right? 'Cause like what worked for you may not work for me, but there are things that I learned along the way. I, I needed a little assistance, right? I, I'm smart, I can figure out things on my own, but somebody's gonna give me a tip or somebody's gonna teach me something that I'm like, I never would've figured that out on my own. So, and as yogis, I feel like we're all here to help each other, right? We're here to build each other up. And I think that's what's really cool about the Yogalebrity community is that we're all yogis, right? So like we have that yoga mindset, we have that philosophy, we have those, the sutras and the yamas and the yamas and the things that we live as part of our life. And I think it comes through in, in your program and in the other people you meet as well too. It's really, it's really supportive. And it's interesting because it's kind of that dichotomy of like, yeah, you've got that yoga mindset, but you also have that I'm building a business. Like you have to be a marketer and a salesperson and you have to be like a little bit in that capitalistic mindset, as much as I hate capitalism. And you're a yogi at the same time. And that can be a really weird juxtaposition for a lot of people.

It's a real, I always tell people there's like the skill sets that made you a great yoga teacher are not going to be the skill sets that are going to make you a living as a yoga teacher. But the most important thing is that, you know, like I don't feel bad about making good money teaching yoga or helping yoga teachers build their business. Because when I help you understand how to create your platform, understand how to use sales funnels, how to understand what it actually takes to promote yourself online and to reach a larger number of people, then I'm actually helping more women understand menopause. Right.

Right.

Or I'm actually helping more women understand how to do creative sequencing, or I'm actually helping more trauma-informed yoga happen because even though I'm not teaching those things, I'm teaching them through you. Right. Like I'm helping other people create their platforms. And so You have to think about it that way for you, right? So like you can't reach more women just being in your home, right, in Chicago. But if you're online and you understand how to go online and you're aggressive about getting yourself out there and doing what it takes to get yourself in front of more people and doing the work and understanding and doing the highs and lows of owning a business, that like you will actually reach more people as a yoga teacher, and then you will be able to help more people, which in turn will financially help you. And so I think we need to like take away this dogma that you shouldn't be paid for what you do as a yoga teacher, because the reality is, is that you cannot reach more people if you do not make more wealth, if you do not get more money, or you're going to just be spending the rest of your life doing a job that you hate, which I know both you and I have done. You know, you'll spend more time doing what you hate. Yeah.

And I think that that's And I think that's part of the evolution of yoga, right? Because like yoga has evolved in so many ways because like, you know, we talk about fitting the pose to the person now instead of the person to the pose. Like you have to do it this way and that's how it looks. And like we've evolved beyond that, which is so wonderful because we're not teenage boys. Okay. You're like, that's what yoga was made for was like teenage boys. We're not teenage boys. So we're evolving yoga, but I think it's the same mindset, right? Like yoga teachers They lived in an ashram or like people paid them to be their guru and to give them the guidance that they needed. And that's not, that's not how it works in the capitalist society that we live in now. And so that thinking has to change.

Right. This isn't going away. We're not going to— there's, we live in a bubble in the yoga world and I've lived in the yoga bubble for almost 30 years as a full-time instructor. And like, The thing is, I think I got certified in 2005 and was like really active in this before that. So, you know, over 20 years now. And the thing is like, we, I forget what it's like to be in the corporate world where people are like stabbing you in the back all the time. Like the normies, they're not, it's not like, it's not like what our life is like. So if we think like we, we have this, like as humans, we have this like tunnel vision and we think that like our experience truly is the only experience. Like that we're the only thing that's going on is what we're thinking. And then like, maybe somebody is thinking slightly different, but it's not that far off. Right? Like, you know, and we see this every day in politics where we think everybody thinks the same thing, which is why I'm like a no politics policy inside of all of our courses, because you can't, it's like the, he says in The Four Agreements where like everybody's come from a different place. So you can't possibly know. where someone has come from and why they have the beliefs that they do, but also the recognition that my beliefs are shaped by the people I grew up with, the place that I grew up with, the town that I lived in, the people I interact with now, my socioeconomic status, my educational status. Like, all that affects what I believe and what I think to be true. It doesn't make it true.

Yep.

And that's true for everyone. So that's why we don't talk politics in anything, because that, you know, like, that could just go down a rabbit hole of awfulness.

Oh, for sure. And it's not even just the political aspect. Like, we all view our entire lives through different sets of lenses, whether they're cat-eye sparkly or not. The metaphorical lenses— we all look at life through those different lenses. And it's the recognition that what your lens is showing you is neither right nor wrong. It's just what you're seeing. And somebody else is seeing it from a different way, and it doesn't mean that theirs is right or wrong either. And it's having the open-mindedness to acknowledge that and to listen to that. And I love that you mentioned the Four Agreements, because I think that I bring it up in like every single coaching session that I have, because they're so crucial to everything that we do as yogis, but also as to trying to find our true path and our true selves, which is, which is part of the perimenopause journey, right? You're, you're sort of redefining yourself. The name of my business is Second Spring because in traditional Chinese medicine, they refer to it a time of blooming into a whole new person, into— it is your second spring. You are going to bloom into wisdom and confidence. And it's like, isn't that gorgeous?

I love that. I love that. I love that. This is a perfect time to segue into what it is that you do. But before I do that, I don't know why I didn't wear these.

I don't know either, because, you know, I'm all about the sparkly cat eyes. It's my thing.

I have to match you. I have to match you with my And glam. So tell us your energy.

We match energy all the time, but we got to match glam.

Tell us about the second spring. That's very exciting. Tell us what it is that you've created and how people can work with you because you're a very intelligent woman. You have so much to offer. You are very driven. You do a lot of work on social media. So how can people connect with you? What have you created? Tell us everything.

Yeah. So I have created a course called Nervous System Reset for Perimenopause. And, um, it's tools that I learned in my journey when I was like completely burnt out and I was lost and I didn't— my doctors were like, you just have anxiety and I'm gonna put you on some antidepressants, which is like the doctor number one. They're either gonna put you on antidepressants or birth control pills. And I was like, I don't want any of this. And they're simple tools. Now I hate when people say it's like, oh, you get this one quick fix. This is the one thing you need to do and it'll fix it. And I'm, I'm telling you right now that it's like, it's not. You're gonna do this once and it's gonna fix everything. This is setting you up with tools to repeat over and over to help your life. But they're, but they only take 5 to like 15 minutes a day. So it's not a lot. We're busy, right? You're, if anyone's schedule looks like mine, I don't even have kids. Like, I don't know how people have kids and go through perimenopause. Cuz sometimes their kids are going through puberty too. So you've got people going, mom's going through second puberty, kids are going through puberty. I don't, I don't know how they do it. You're busy. So my course is there to teach you how to reduce stress and cortisol so you can regulate your nervous system, because what you've done by going, going for so many years and ignoring yourself is you've trained your body to live in a state of fight and flight all the time. That's all it recognizes. That is the normal. That's why you're having the heart palpitations. That's why the anger comes on. And that's why, like, you hate the sound of your husband chewing. Like, It's all of that is because you're living in fight or flight and your body doesn't know how to relax. Like relaxing is hard. You get into shavasana and you're like looking at your Apple Watch, checking the text messages, which, hey, people out there, stop looking at your Apple Watch during class. And you're going to train through practices of yoga and breathwork how to get into rest and relax. And it might be awkward and feel weird at first because it did for me because I wasn't used to moving slowly. And And it's so counterintuitive to what we believe, right? I just need to push through this. I need to work harder because that's what we've learned over time, right? You work harder and things will, will fix themselves, but you have to do the opposite during perimenopause because working harder is not going to work for you. So these are gentle, repetitive movements. They're breathwork. You don't have to be hypermobile. You don't have to have done yoga for 20 years. You can never have done yoga before. And these things are really approachable and they're simple and you can take them out anywhere you are. You can be at your desk at work. Do some of these breathwork practices or somatic movements, and they're going to help you find a place that's more relaxing. And so you're not feeling on edge all the time. That's the goal.

I love it. I love it. So how do they get your course? How do they get in touch with you?

Yeah. So I'm Second Spring Coach on like everything. You can look at all the channels. I have a website, secondspringcoach.net. Lots of information on there about my yoga, about my coaching and how they work together. My course is on there. Um, so that's the place to find me, secondspringcoach.net. But spread the word about the concept of second spring, because I feel like that's such a mindset shift that we all need to embrace, especially in the West here, where we're taught that like, this is a time of decay and you're losing your youth and your beauty and your worth and all those things. And it's not true because perimenopause isn't just a physical change. It's a mental change and it's a spiritual change as well too.

People always sound like I'm 51 and people always say, oh, you don't have to say that. You don't have to say how old you are. And you know what? Like, I'm happy to be 51. I'm so grateful to be alive. Also, I'm like so excited to be in this stage of my life. I'm a woman of wisdom now. Like, I've had some things happen to me. I'm no longer confused. Like, I don't allow people to walk all over me in the way that I once did. I don't allow certain things to bother me in the way that I used to, you know? Like, and I think that there's a different kind of beauty than the beauty that I had when I was young. And I Like, I was a person who was very, very good looking. And I got a lot for— I did have pretty privilege a lot. And I used it. And that was a difficult transition for me when I went from 40, you know, to 40 was a hard transition for me. And when the first time somebody called me ma'am instead of miss, and like, I was like, can you help me put this battery in? You know? And he was like, ma'am, we don't do that here. And I was like, well, last year when I had my hair extensions and looked younger, you did. But I didn't say that. But I thought that. And so So, I mean, that transition was there. I'm not ignoring that, but I also just like, like, it's so awesome to just not have to, you know, as someone who was very good looking, I was like chased when I would go running. Like I'd have more than once I've had to go into a stranger's yard or knock on somebody's door or like somebody would be like in their yard working on their yard. And I've had to like run in their yard and be like, I just need to stand here for a few minutes while this car goes away. You know, so scary. It's, it can be really scary to be an attractive woman on this planet. You know, like it can be really scary. And so I think, you know, like not having that happen as often, you know, or we were like, I was with my cousin and we were chased around a Sally Hansen Beauty by some guy. And like, what is this dude doing inside a Sally Hansen? You know, it's a hair place for a hairstylist place. Like, like You know, like, what are you, why are your cousins like young and cute and hot? And, you know, like whatever. It can be hard to be a woman on all the levels. It can be hard to be a woman.

In that situation, right? Like it's, it's your fault because you look the way you do, right? Like if somebody attacks you or chases you or catcalls or whatever, it's your fault for what you were wearing or how your makeup was done or your hair done was that day. And it's like, that's not true. That's, that's what the patriarchy is telling us. Don't get me started on the patriarchy, but—

You can't win in this society as a woman because you can't be young and beautiful and be okay. And you can't be old and filled with wisdom and be okay. You can't even call yourself old because that's shameful. You know, like somebody said to me, like, I have been chasing being thin my whole life, right? Like, it just— I'm constantly struggling with this. And then also at the same time, the food is sabotaging, whatever. We could have a whole nother podcast about that.

Yeah.

But, but somebody said something the other day that really rang with me is that we've been taught that women's beauty is actually childhood. You know, like the average Victoria's Secret model in the '90s was like 15, 16, 17 years old. They were children. That's why they looked like that. So we've been taught to like have this standard to look and feel and act like children as women. And That's not what a woman really looks like. So I love what you do. I think that your content is super empowering. I love that you're so consistent as a content creator. I love your course that you've created. I love how approachable it is. I love that it can help so many people. And if you are someone who is listening to this and you're going through perimenopause, menopause, and you would just like to have something that serves you, created for you, about you and your journey as a woman, please do check out Megan.

Please do.

Please do get her course. The links will be all below in the description. I'll have Tiana put those in there for you. And please do connect with Megan. She's a very approachable person. I'm sure you could even DM her and give her a follow. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast today. I really appreciate you. Thank you for coming through the course and just being a light of all of our life. We really enjoyed working with you. And I know that I love when people come through my stuff because then And once they're done, we can just be friends. And I love that. Yeah. And I like now that we're like more on like a peer level and I enjoy like bouncing ideas off of you and talking to you about things. So I hope that that really continues. And thank you again for coming onto the podcast. If you had one thing that you wanted to leave women with who are going through this journey, this perimenopausal journey and postmenopausal, tell us, what would you want to say to them? What's the one thing you would want them to know?

That you're not alone. You're not crazy. You're not broken. That nobody told you that this was happening. And it's okay that you don't understand what's going on and you don't have to put up with it. You can find the help that you need and it can be a time of empowerment, right? It's not the decay they tell it is. It's the second spring. You're, you're awesome already. Like just embrace that awesomeness and let your freak flag fly.

Thank you so much, Megan. I really appreciate you. Everybody that's listening. Please like, subscribe, give us 5 stars on the podcast, share this with your friends, and we look forward to seeing you in the next episode.