Sales Training 101 Lets go back to the start.

How we looking, Bush? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, And whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, just whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, ways whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, can whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, deliver whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, content whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, so whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, can whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, eventually whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, sell whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you whoa, whoa stuff.

I think that's the idea.

I think it's the idea. And talking about that today, what I'm going to be doing is explaining the fundamentals of sales to someone who has never been taught nor wanted to learn sales.

Actually avoided learning actively. Yeah.

So if you like this kind of content and you're watching in a video medium, make sure you like, subscribe, hit the notification bell, all that kind of good stuff. And if you're watching audio only, congratulations. You're one of the few, the proud, the hard, the stayers. And we'll see you after the intro. If you listen to this podcast, you will make your first million within 3 years. I'm going to repeat that. You will make a million dollars within 3 years of the first episode you listen to. We don't want pikers. We're not here to save the manatees. We're here to make podcasts. You really want this, you listen And review.

Put that coffee down.

Sales is what gathers us here today. Okay, well, have you got any questions first and foremost?

Um, I do not. It's not a good— All right guys, if you like this kind of content, I think, uh, to set the scene, I have never— I've never really worked for money. This is actually my first job, right?

I could not pay.

Is there a different Mechanism? Well, and, and so being in the army for 12 years, you're not really accountable for anything other than your job, which I think is one of the interesting things about having started out that way is, uh, you know, you get paid, you, you do your job, but there's no like KPIs that involve any money. Money is not a part of it until you hit that like sergeant rank and you gotta like TARP and account for money and stuff like that. And even then it's just bidding for money. You don't have to make any. Um, And then I've worked for myself ever since I left the army and have kind of just been lucky and fallen into easy, easy things. And so I think for us to do a supermodel, as they say. And so I've never actually had to be really that across it. And so I've never, I've never sold anything. I have products that I sell, but I don't sell them. They, they sell themselves. So I've never actually really sold anything.

Yeah. I've had the opposite. Yeah. When I got out of the army, I spent all my money on travel. Came back completely broke with, uh, the only skill set was being able to, to a moderate degree, be able to shoot people from a decent distance away. Uh-huh. Uh, not a super marketable skill unless you want to do that kind of work.

Yeah.

Which I was offered.

Yeah. Oh, there's, there's still big money in that, especially in the counter-poaching in Africa.

Yeah. Dark times though, especially when you get paid by the head. Yeah, literally.

Yeah, that's legit.

I was offered, um, camel shooting in Northern Territory.

Oh, yeah?

For $800 a day.

Yeah, right.

Uh, because I was, uh, AFSS.

Yeah.

AFS. So aerial fire support, for those of you who don't know, shooting from helicopters. Qualified in that. Uh, sort of considered it, then decided I didn't want to spend a year on a station in the middle of nowhere shooting camels.

Yeah.

It just didn't seem like a fun—

I got no beef with camels.

No, me either. I was like, fuck camels. Like, it wasn't the hill I'm gonna die on, you know? Imagine, imagine like the helicopter goes down. Oh, how'd, how'd fucking How'd he die? Doing what he loved.

Yeah, shooting.

So anyway, I didn't really have any marketable skills, and so I was like, you know, I was never the fit guy, so I'll be a PT. Yeah, yeah, it's perfect step. Yeah, it seemed like a great idea. But anyway, like, I liked it, enjoyed it. I got to develop some skills. It's how sort of me and you got, you know, got to know each other more than— because we were not really— we were in the military together, but not really. We were in different sects. But, but it became like I immediately started trading time for money.

Yeah.

Um, and, and I realized very quickly, like, I was always taught, like, in the personal training space, like, the more you learn, the more you earn. And I was like, well, I guess I see some phenomenal PTs that are struggling and I see some shit ones that are killing it. And I was like, the difference was they could talk to people, you know? And so pretty quickly learned that, you know, sales was was a decent route to go down. It was a very necessary skill set for me to learn because when I go out of the gyms and I just start my own gyms— and so when I got out of PT, started my own gyms, like everything was sales-based. And I was all— I was just constantly trying to figure out ways to make money because I have not had a salary. I have one now, but I have not had— I didn't have a salary since I left the Army. So there was a 10-year period where I was just always trying to find the next bout of money to pay bills, sometimes relatively unsuccessfully, to be honest. Um, so selling and the ability to, to miracle money or make money, um, has always been front of mind.

Yeah.

Since I left the military.

Yeah, I remember that when you had the gym, your PTing time was second to bringing customers in time.

And there was—

you were constantly— the challenges you were doing and all that kind of stuff, like always just bringing people in. to get members in and keep them paying?

Yeah, it's a very difficult business. I won't say to share, that's probably unfair. And I think even, even done really well, it's difficult to be successful over the long term. I think there's a real sweet spot if you have like you want big gyms full of, you know, it just doesn't really work. But if you want to be an owner-operator, I think it's a pretty decent business model. Yeah. Sales has always been important. I think like the ability to persuade, influence and sell is something that once you have it, it's a lifelong skill set. Like, I remember when I, when I started making good money and started getting good at sales and Jeremy was like, Jeremy Miner was like, congratulations, man. Never have to borrow money ever again. Like, I could quite confidently walk into any business and be the top sales guy within a couple of months. Actually, a guy I was just speaking to, one of our guys, Jeff, who's a phenomenal sales rep, and his son worked for us for a little while. Was a setter, and just didn't, to be honest, have the personality to sell in the space that we sell in. And as his father so adequately put it, mate, you're not enough of a cunt for this. Right? Okay. Right. But we've been training him for months and months and months and months, and he'd he was pretty good, but he just didn't have the the drive home, the sort of dead inside-ness that you need to sell coaching and consulting specifically. He went into recruitment.

Okay.

Right. Just walked into a recruitment office and goes, I would like a job. And they were like, oh, okay. Found him a job. Within 2 weeks, he set a company record.

Yeah, right.

Within 6 weeks, they've given him the entire UK division. And this is a guy who lovely could not close a door in coaching and consulting, walked in and is a world-class performer in recruiting within 6 weeks.

So that's just an emotional barrier that he probably had to—

He was raised too well. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Really nice human. And like, I think that's just like, just doesn't have like his father can, can, can blow with, you know, he can, he can go to battle, you know what I mean? Like has a— and I think with coaching and consulting specifically because you're selling these intangible information-based products for $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 and the results are not guaranteed or self-evident. And they rely on a jigsaw puzzle of things going correctly. And this is known by everybody. And so it's like, like if you pay me $50 grand to teach you how to sell, there is no guarantee that one, you pick it up in time, but two, you have the opportunity.

Yeah.

What if the leads dry up? You can't even practice. You just got to practice in front of a mirror like an idiot. I mean, these are all legitimate concerns. So to overcome those on a 45-minute phone call and get someone to hand over $15,000, $20,000, $30,000, of their hard-earned money quickly. It can, it can take some, some persuading.

Yeah, I think actually that's one of the things that's kind of kept me out of that sort of part of it is having to persuade people that an information product is worth their while to buy. You know, I have an online course and in the dog training space that I did for so long, the demand so radically outweighs the supply. So I remember when I first got my van, I was going to get signwriting on it and then before I, like, I had it booked in and before I even could go do it, I was full and couldn't possibly take on any more clients. I was like, oh, well, I shouldn't do that because I'm only going to be taking phone calls I can't, I can't service. But then in the online space, I've never pushed my own online course or anything because I suppose there's a barrier for me about, you know, pushing your own product as like, this is the best, this is the one. And it's fucking good. Like, I certainly, I back it. I wouldn't have put it out if it wasn't good. But there's something about like, you know, telling people this is the one, you will guarantee get value from it. Because I think what I struggle with is they might not even watch it, or they might not be ready for it. It might be beyond them. Um, you know, there's a bandwidth of, of where someone's ready for that kind of product, and it's hard for me to tell where they are on that. Maybe it's, maybe it's, it's, it's too advanced for them, or maybe it's not advanced enough. Maybe they're beyond that. And that's always been the struggle for me.

I think that's, that's like sort of the difference between information versus information and coaching products. Like, um, because for example, like if you sold your $97 one he used to have for free, the MS Kennels one, which is like train a puppy from where to go, more of a B2C type thing. Like, that's great for everybody. Like, no one doesn't get value from that. And for $97, but like, it doesn't charge enough to warrant a sales process.

Yeah.

Right. But if you were to add coaching to that and charge $3,000, right, then you would be able to take them through a sales process where you could dictate or you could have a good understanding as to whether or not it was right for them or not. And then have a downsell, which is where product ladders come into play. And maybe the very bottom is that $97 one, and that's just you liquidating some time and ad spend or whatever. So it kind of breaks even for you. But you might have a $297, a $597, a $2,000, and a $3,000. And then you can dictate what product you think is best for them at the time.

OK.

And then that person might then come back to you and want to become a dog trainer because they get passionate. And they pay you $15,000, and you teach them how to be a dog trainer.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know, so, and that's kind of what we've developed, especially like at 7th Level, for example. Like, we've developed that for that reason because like, I can't in good conscience sell Inner Circle to someone who has no idea. Not only for them, it's actually more for the benefit of the people who are already in there because there's nothing worse than signing up to a mastermind and there aren't many masterful minds in there.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Okay. So within that, there's like group sessions and stuff and they, they roleplay with each other or something like that, right?

Never with each other. Okay. Like, would you ever get—

Yeah, well, that's what I was going to say. Like this.

They try to, and I heavily discourage it.

You could get really good at being shitty.

Yeah, yeah. Like Michael Jordan used to say, you can take a million free throws, but if you don't know how to do a free throw, you're just ingraining shitty habits.

Yeah, yeah.

So, like, we have it in front of coaches.

OK.

Right? So daily roleplays in front of coaches. And then we have, like, there's only one person who will write scripts, and that's Jeremy. Jeremy is the only scriptwriter, 'cause he's the only— like, I write scripts, but I will only write scripts for certain industries, whereas he has written scripts and sold in so many different industries that he can adapt it very easily, right? Like whether it's credit repair or whether it's EFTPOS machines or whatever, right? Like he's done it all. So and then we have it segmented into skill sets that build upon, but we're getting very much in the weeds away, away from sales as to like the ethics of sales and how you build a program that can ethically send someone through. Right. But, but I think like the core of it, of what you're saying is 2 things. Like one, some people feel uncomfortable selling. Mm-hmm. I don't. I think I used to.

I think for me, I would only be uncomfortable selling my own product. Like, I have no— like, you know, someone else's, it's just a weird ego thing that I sort of get weird about.

No, I agree. I'm better at selling somebody else's stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, way better. I think it's a— yeah, I don't know. Like, but you look at Marco, like, Marco is a— he just goes beast on everybody, you know? But I think, like, I'm at a stage where, like, I don't want to sell most people.

Okay.

I'm like, Like, I had 2 inquiries this week about done-for-you sales and I was like, oh, I don't think you're very good at this. And I was like, this, this doesn't seem right. Like, there is something off.

You mean their product that you would be selling?

Yeah. Like, if I think they're shit— like, we fired a client recently. Like, it's the first time I've turned diaries off immediately because I sort of looked more into what they were doing. And I was like, well, I was like, that's not what you told me it was. And now it— so you've sort of bait and switched me. And when I do the research, that's not— it's not legal. Like, that's not FTC guidelines. Like, that's— it's a gray area. And I was like, I don't deal in gray. And I just went, diaries are off. And they fucking had a freakout. And I was like, well, unless you can provide me with legal letters and say this is not a gray area, this is a straight yay, good to go with no chance of that loophole closing. I said, 'cause to be perfectly honest, mate, I don't like the chances of if that loophole closed, you telling me.

Yeah.

Like, right? Like, you know. But anyway, I feel comfortable selling anything that I'm comfortable with.

Okay.

You know, and so if I think it's good, I'll go hard in the paint. And if I think it's in the best interest of the individual, I'm happy to go super hard. And that's not being rude because there's no point. But, but it's like I'm willing to stay in the saddle and put some very, very definitive, like, frames on somebody that makes their decision-making very binary. And it's not buy or die because it's not what it is. It's not like buy or don't buy. It's like towards or away.

Okay.

Those are your— those are your choices.

Yeah.

Like, we're at an inflection point here. Given the context of the conversation that we've had, we realize that everything lines up from a logistical standpoint. It puts you in the best possible outcome. Like, this is the best decision for you. So you either need to make a decision that, that pushes you towards your outcome or away from your outcome. And I'm cool with either one. But we have to sit here and like, it is your burden to make the decision.

Okay.

You know, and that's where you have to be able to get it sometimes, because like, if people made decisions that were right for them, they wouldn't need help.

Yeah.

And I learned that. And the reason why, like, I'm willing to go a lot further, I think, and stay in the saddle much longer is because I did own gyms. So like, I used to watch people come in who were 50, 60, 70 kilos overweight and be like, oh, now isn't the right time, I should think about it. And I'd be like, The right time was when you were 10 kilos overweight, motherfucker.

Yeah.

Now you're 50, and you're gonna die. And then I'd see them 3 months later, another fucking 20 pounds heavier. And I was like, ugh. Like, if I was better, that might not have happened. And so I would go like, all right, well, then I'll just— the training, if they just do as I say, they'll do pretty good. Even if I'm not that good a trainer, like, just exercise and eat less, you'll be fine.

Yeah.

Right? Hate to break the veil, but to not be fat is easy. To be lean is difficult. It's technically difficult, right? So for me, I'm a big believer, as Marco would say, in people fundamentally make poor choices around things they're not good at.

Okay.

If you're long-term broke, you make poor decisions around money. If you're long-term fat, you make poor decisions around food. Me and you, we go up, we go down with fitness, with our fatness. Sometimes we're more fat, sometimes we're less fat. And I am fully aware that it is 100% due to the choices that I make on a day-to-day basis. I am not under any illusion that I have some sort of fucking genetic defect.

The problem is, you know, food is delicious.

It is. You know what? You're right. I mean, it's controversial, but you're correct.

Food is delicious and working out is hard. Yeah, that's just— this is 2 facts.

It's true. And I think like the fact that I know that about myself, it makes it way easier for me to sell.

Okay.

Because like, I'm okay. I understand myself enough to go, that is a fault of mine and I get it. And so I can identify it in other people and I'm like, oh, you just make shitty choices. And I'm like, if you're a business owner who is like perpetually unsuccessful and it's because you can never sort out your front end, like your sales and your marketing, it's like, well, you suck at sales and marketing, man. So like, and if you refuse to hire somebody to fix that for you, you just make bad choices. If you constantly overspend in your business because you don't understand how to read a P&L or how your business fundamentally runs, like, you're making bad choices. And you can either choose to fix that problem or you can choose to move away from it. And one of the things that a lot of people do is they will appeal to third-party authorities that aren't there, which is where you get objections like, I need to run it by my accountant, I need to run it by my CFO. I need to run it by my wife. I need to pray on it. I need to do this, do this. It's like, no, no, no, man. It's not. Today is the day that you stand up for yourself and that you make a decision, because you are the one who is ultimately responsible for the success of XYZ. You are the one that has the context, and for you to outsource that burden is not only unfair on you, but it's very unfair on them. Like imagine if I'm like, if I'm like, if you're training someone in dogs, I'm like, okay, well before I do that, I need to ask my wife. Wait a second. Yeah, yeah. What fucking context does your wife have about X, Y, and Z? Like, that makes no sense.

Yeah.

And to just go and randomly go, oh hey, can I do this? With no context, like, you're asking someone else to be responsible for your outcome.

Do you think it's not fair? How often do you think that the partner objection is a real objection versus like just, uh, something I'm trying to say to fill up the space and hopefully you'll buy it and leave me alone? Like, how many people—

it's almost always fake.

Yeah. How many people do you think you've ever, like, you know, pitched to and then they say, well, that sounds great, but I just got to run it past my wife, and they really meant that?

Yeah, well, I just— I, I have a, a specific process that I take someone through to figure out if that's real.

Okay.

So I go, okay, well, if your wife was here, do you feel like this would be the answer for you? So I sort of re-established the fact that the program is the answer. Okay. And I go, and okay, and what are you going to do if your wife doesn't want you to learn the skills to be able to XYZ so you can can XYZ. And I go, is this more of a permission conversation or is this an FYI conversation? And they're going to tell me. Now, if they say it's permission, I'll then probe a little bit deeper to figure out, is it actually permission or what is it? And then I have a process for that because I need to get the wife on the call then because I can't leave it up to them. Okay. Because they're probably shitty at selling.

Okay.

It's probably why they're talking to me. Right?

So like, yeah, you're not the person to convince her. Let me convince her.

Let's get the wife on the call.

And do you put it as simply as that? Like you actually say to people like, Hey, I have convinced you. You're telling me the only thing stopping this is the wife. Let me talk to her instead of you talk to her, because me and you can work together as a team. Are you that transparent with people?

Oh yeah. I'll be like, listen, man, me and you've had a conversation that's gone for like 30 minutes. I go like, have you had a 30 to 40 minute conversation with your wife about this specifically? And like all the things that are happening from it, like the cascading of effects that is happening from you not having these skills. They're like, no, because people don't want to do that. It's very vulnerable.

Oh yeah.

I go, okay, well, Let me have that conversation. Let's all get on a call together. Let's book it in right now. Do not go in depth into this with your wife because you're going to give her the high, the 40,000-foot view, and that's not enough. She needs to understand the impact that this is having on you professionally and personally.

Okay.

Right? And then if they say this is more of an FYI, then I'll just tie everything up and go, well, If this is happening, this is happening, this is happening, and you're going to move forward regardless, how do you want to proceed from here? Because I always leave the door open. Like, if I tell you, okay, so do you want to do it? You can say yes or no, right? Those are your, those are your options. If I say, how do you want to proceed from here? You can go, yeah, man, that all sounds really good and makes a lot of sense. I think I just need to go away and think about it. Sweet. The conversation continues.

Yep.

And I just keep going. What would you like to think about? Specifically, just so I can make sure I help you out and give you all the information that you need. I just want to make sure that, you know, it kind of works in my finances. Okay, cool. So is it the upfront amount that we're talking about, or is it going to be like— or is that what's kind of worrying you? If we were to break that up into more digestible chunks, would that be helpful for you? Oh, you guys can do that? Yeah, yeah, we can have that conversation. They go, yeah, let's talk about it. Okay, so you want me to run you through some, some payment options? Yes. Okay, so what we typically do for people in your situation is X, Y, and Z. Would that be appropriate? Like, does that, does that work within your current budgetary constraints? And then I can tell straight away if it's like, uh, like that. If I get hesitation, I'll drop a little bit, you know what I mean? Like, or extend it out a little bit more. And then from there, I'll go, they'll go, I'll go, okay, so a 3-pay, so 3 payments of $5,000, like, that would work within your current budget? Like, that makes sense? They go, yes. And I go, okay, how do you want to proceed from here? And they go, yeah, man, that all makes total sense. I just really need like 12 hours to think about it. Perfect. Do you mind if I offer you a different perspective? Right. Or go into some sort of like— then I'll bridge into like, so I've tied up all logistical, like partners tied up, money's tied up. Like we've got agreements that they don't need their partner's permission. They can move forward regardless and they're going to move forward even if their partner's not on board. And I have a payment plan which works in the budget. All logistics are now tied up and my presentation phase will lock up ironclad Like that this is the right move, and I get them to dig into those points.

So I want to talk about that presentation phase, but I've got a question. Yeah. Um, how often, or have you ever encountered someone who's bullshitted to you during the call about their business, how successful it is, how much money they make?

Oh, it's super. Yeah.

And then you're saying this is right for you, and objection— like, it is for the story they told you, but they told you a bullshit story, and it's probably not a good product for them, and they know that for realsies of the real story, but they gave you the bullshit.

I ask questions in random mortars.

Okay.

So if I want to figure out how much money you make, right?

Yeah.

Um, like there are ways to ask that question, be like, hey, how much money do you make each month? And they go, I make $100 grand a month.

All right.

And then I can go, okay, well, how much do you make per sale? And they go, I make $2 grand. And how many sales do you make a month? They automatically go 50. And you go, oh, okay. And then you work your way back. But if I go, hey man, like how much do you make per sale? Like if you're a sales guy, I make $3 grand. All right, cool, dude. And like, how many of those sales— like, how many people does it take to actually get, you know, to show up for you to get those sales? Okay, so you're closing about this percentage. All right, sweet. And how many sales calls are you taking per month? Sweet. And I can go, oh, so you're taking this many, this many are buying, like based on the percentages. I now know how much money you make.

Yeah.

And so then I'll present you with the number. Okay, so you're making about $15,000 a month? Yeah, that's true. Okay. And if you had the skill set that you, you know, given the opportunities that you have, if you had a higher skill set. So, and the same with business owners, right? So with business owners, like, it's basically I can take them through all the metrics that I need to know, but I take it through in a completely random order.

Mm-hmm.

And I can space that through a pretty significant period of time. And I can ask questions about goals as well and then get like what their future revenue is going to be. And then from there, knock that back to current day revenue. And if I ask questions in very quick succession, it's very difficult to bullshit.

Yeah.

Especially in random orders.

OK.

Right. So that's kind of how I get around that, because, like, if you can lie that quickly and accurately, then well played.

Yeah.

Yeah. But if I ask you 6 or 7 questions in a row that are in a completely random order that have to equal that number, and if they don't, I go, well, something's not right. I go, hang on a second, man. Like, if you're doing this and this and this and this, then I put it back into order. And I go, you like that number doesn't make sense. And they go, oh well, I mean like our highest month was that. Well okay, like what did you do this month?

Yeah yeah.

And they go, we did this. Like all right, that's cool man. Like and you want to get back to that or where do you really want to get going? Right. So I don't make fun of them for anything like that, but like I have ways of getting the real goal.

Wait one. I heard a camera make a beep.

Did you hear that? I did not.

Yeah, that's interesting. Um, let's go back to that presentation. So one thing that's always sort of— I've been curious about with the sales calls is like the start, right? Because I see, I see all of the, you know, information about objection handling and lots of the when things derail, but like when the screen comes on How did— that's what I don't get.

Hey man, how can I help? Yeah, so that's what I do. It's very controversial.

Okay, why, why is that controversial?

Because a lot of sales trainers talk about setting a frame. Okay, like, hey man, so the point of today's call is to do XYZ. Okay, some people go as far as go, and at the end of today's call, I'll ask you to make a decision either way. It could be a yes or no, either one is fine, you know what I mean?

Okay, so like the standard Like what? Why standard? During this call, yeah, we are going to do this. The reason we're doing this is because, and by the end of this call, you will have bought.

Okay. Yeah, you'll make a decision either way.

Okay.

I just asked you make a decision, you know what I mean? And people go, yeah, sure, fine. Ridiculous.

Okay.

Right.

The reason being, so that's the industry standard. That's what most people do.

And it's ridiculous.

Okay.

It's patently ridiculous. And I will argue this to the hilt. And I've had arguments with people because pretending That you can control what I do at the end of that call is absurd. Okay, I can say you make yes or no, and I go maybe.

Yeah, okay.

And then I've had people on sales calls go, well, you know we have an action taker discount, right? And they frame that at the beginning. You know, so if you do decide to proceed today on the call, you'll be offered an action taker discount. Yada yada yada. And at the end of the call, I've gone. So you're telling me if I call you tomorrow. you will not give me that discount. And they go, well— and I go, well, then you're full of shit and I'm not gonna buy from you, period.

Yep.

Like, so you have to make a choice. Either you tell me no on this call, you tell me no, right? Or I call you tomorrow and you give me that discount and I tell you no, right? Or you charge me full price like a fucking man, right? You know what I mean? Like, it's, um, I just think it's bullshit. It's like, it's bloviating bullshit For insecure salespeople to pretend they can control a process which they have no control of.

Okay, so knowing that of you, when you— because you buy lots of stuff, you get pitched lots of stuff.

Yeah, I love buying stuff.

When you are the receiver of the sales call, right, so when you're not the seller, you're the potential purchaser. Yeah. Do you just take control from people?

Do you just steamroll everyone? Good luck.

I can imagine you just fucking with them. Like saying random shit, saying things that are untrue, getting in their OODA loop, basically.

No, I don't. Like, if I'm on a sales call, I'm probably going to buy. Yeah, right. Because like, I would have— I'm the person who's done the research and gone, oh, I like this product. I want to see a little bit more about it. I'm pretty much in. Okay. You'd have to unsell me.

Okay.

All right. And I've been unsold many times, but I'll be— I'll be super honest. But like, I, I will most likely steamroll the conversation. It's more of a personality. I'm more of a conversation steamroller anyway. And I hate being sold poorly.

Okay.

So like, if you come on and try and set a frame of like, this is what we're going to be like, man, like, really? And I'll immediately go, what if I say maybe? Yeah, well, you can't do that. Yes, I can. I'll tell you what, pitch me right now and I'll tell you maybe. Like, so I hate it. And so like, I, I realized a while ago that I just cannot control people. All I can do is a process that ends predictably a certain amount of the time.

Okay.

So let's say I close at 50%.

Yeah.

Fantastic. I speak to 10 people, 5 of them say no. That was how it's always going to work out. I could speak to 10 people and 10 of them say no. I could speak to the next 10, 10 of them say yes. I closed at 50%. I was not the worst or the best salesperson. It's just what I do. Right? And so, and I realized that no matter how good I am, I can never sell everybody. It's impossible. So doing things and I can't control what some— and also, like, I'm not Tony Robbins. I'm not a qualified psychotherapist.

Yeah.

There are some people that have deep-seated issues against success. Like, I remember I was training a girl years ago and she used to binge eat. I think I said this before.

Yeah.

Because she was afraid of losing weight. Yeah.

And still being unsuccessful.

And yeah. So I was like, man, like, that is something I can't— I'm not qualified to fix. Yeah, like, you know what I mean? Nor am I gonna try.

Yeah, dude, I've known so many people in my life that are self-sabotaging like that. The best example, like theatrically, you know that movie Talladega Nights? Yeah, they go out to dinner with Ricky Bobby's dad. They're at Applebee's and everything's going great, and he looks around and he goes, this is all going great, I'm gonna fuck it up. Yeah, he just immediately starts being rude to the waitress, complaining about— yeah, and just does stupid shit because he's like This is going too well. And it's like, that's a parody of it. But I know so many people that do that on the daily.

Yeah. And so I need to realize that, like, can I fix 25 years of deep-seated issues in 45 minutes? No way. And it's super arrogant to think that I can.

Yeah.

And so, like, when people come to me like, oh, I'm so frustrated on a call, it's like, why? I didn't make the sale. Okay. And don't get me wrong, I used to be there. Yeah, I used to be there, and, uh, but these days, like, pretending that I can control people is such a joke. And those people who say, oh no, you set frames and you set the authority and you— it's what a load of fucking bullshit. Like, it's so insulting to not only to the person to think that they don't have agency over their own ideas and that you can fucking mind freak them into doing something. All you can do is present an argument and, and listen, like, I've got I've got some psychological tools in my tool belt that I can use to set up some predictability. And I definitely do that with setting of frames, but I don't do like an authority frame. What I do is I try and get acceptance on certain key principles along the way, and then I have them dig in and then explain to me what they mean by those key principles. Like, and I can, I can put words in and I can anchor words and stuff like hamster wheel. Thinking that you can control people is just— it's just patently ridiculous, in my opinion. And so, like, a lot of people, you know, they have mentalities where, like, buy or die. And it's like, either you buy now or fuck you. You know what I mean? It makes no sense on any level. And it's just— it's just insulting to, like, to everybody. And it makes shitty salespeople. And so I think— and that's where a lot of sales gets its bad name from, is like, fuck the prospect. Look at these morons. You know, the boiler room type bullshit that you hear. Yeah.

So when— so then take me back to the presentation so that the call starts up and you go, hi, how can I help?

Yeah, that's, that's how I do it. You know what I mean? I just go, hey man, how can I help? Like, I'm super very conversational when I sell and quite stoic because if you're, if you're somewhat stoic with like, hey man, how are you? How can I help? Like, I'm not the— like, I'm interested and engaged but quite neutral in how I, in how I approach it. The reason for that is because if I intend to use my tonality to trigger certain emotions in you, I have to have a baseline which is not triggering at all.

Okay.

Right? So if I go, hey Pat, how are you, buddy? How's it going, man? What's your day? And I go— and then I want to invoke incitement, I've got nowhere to go.

Nowhere to go.

Right.

So you've got to come in right in that mid-level so you can go down and go up.

Yeah. And then like, um, I'm fairly like, like lean out. Like I lean out when I do, hey man, how are you? How can I help? And I go like, what did you like? What did you want to talk about today? And then they kind of tell me and I go, okay, cool. And then I just start my process. And that's why my sales are super quick because I like, do you care what the weather is like or what the local sports ball team did that day? Yeah, exactly. Like you don't give a shit. So like it's all pretend and I don't like pretend things. I think it's just stupid and it wastes a lot of time. And I value the prospect's time as well as I value my time. And so I don't really feel the need to fill the air with, with noise that doesn't really do anything. And it's neither interesting nor productive.

Okay. You know, and so what, by asking how can I help, you're then putting them in a position to have to explain to you the problem that—

yeah.

Are they problem aware right off the jump?

Exactly. And so because my first thing that I want to find out in the connection phase is what are— what problem are they here to solve? So it's like, yeah, man, I just really wanted to find out what you guys can do to help me get more leads.

Oh, Perfect.

What are you doing at the moment to get more leads? That's— I'm done. That's my problem awareness. That's my connecting phase. Oh, okay. I know why you're here.

Right?

Right. And then my situation phase is what are you doing about the thing that you're here to solve?

Okay.

So it's what are you doing at the moment to get more leads? Okay. And how long have you been doing that? Is there any reason why you chose that way? Sweet. I have enough information. And then I go, well, do you— do you like what you're doing now to generate more leads? And now I'm beginning problem awareness. So now I'm start— I'm going to start to dissect the problem. You know what I mean? I'm going to find out, like, what's the problem? What's causing the problem? Is it lack of knowledge, lack of time, lack of skill? You know what I mean? And then it's like, how long has the problem been going for? Because that allows me to start to put some timeframes on things. Because if I can— if I know it's been a problem for 12 months, that's a problem that we need to fix today. It's been a problem for 30 days. I have a bit more work to be done.

Okay.

Right. And then I'll find out, like, what impact the problem is having. Right? Then once I find those things out, then I'm done with the problem. Now it's all about the solution because people don't do things to solve problems. People do things to get to solutions. Like when Usain Bolt runs towards the 100-meter line, like he's running because he pictured what it, what it feels like to win the gold medal. And it's like once you've won the gold medal, you don't want to not win it again, you know, because now you know what that, that taste is like, right? And so people like run towards things and like they're, they're going in the same way that a dog does, right? Like that's why you reward them.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, but the fucking stick can be more effective and is more effective, in my opinion, especially on humans, than what the carrot is.

Yeah.

So, but the more enticing the carrot, the, the, the lighter stick, but the more effective it is.

Mm-hmm.

Right. So like the whole point of like solution awareness as a phase of a sale is to vividly, vividly discuss the emotional and tangible outcomes that, that are, that are going to happen once the problem is solved. So like once you learn how to sell, right, then you'll make more money. But more money doesn't mean anything. Like it's just zeros in a bank account. Like it means nothing essentially. It's what that money provides you. For some reason it's freedom. For some it's vindication, right? For some it's the, the final being able to say, fuck you, Dad, I did it right. Like that is the real reason that's fucking driving them. And so like sometimes it's like, I want to be able to get my kids out of their shitty public school, put them into a private school so I can provide them what my parents could not provide me. Right. Like, those are real things and that's really what people want. And it's like the skill set is a mechanism that gets you there.

That's a very personal sort of thing, digging that deep into someone's drives and motivations.

Yeah, but they want to talk about it.

Yeah. How do you, how do you bring that out?

Just ask questions.

Okay.

Like, so someone's like, I want to make more money. I'm like, well, man, like, making, making more money is just making more money.

Like, what are you going to do with that?

Like, what are you going to do with it? Like, what's the, what's the benefit to you to making money? And like, they'll give you 4 or 5 things, but one of those things is a little bit different than the other ones. Remember I was having a sales guy with a guy a couple years ago and he's like, hey man. I was like, so you wanna make $10K a month? Like, what would you do with $10K a month? Like, what's the sort of— what's the benefit to you personally to actually making that much money? And I was like, and I very vivid, I go, having 10 grand hit your bank account every single month, man. Like, what does that do for you? He's like, well, you know, I'd love to travel and I'd be able to get a better house and I'd pay back my dad and I really love cars. And I was like, Pay back, pay back your dad. And then he just fucking started crying.

Okay.

Instantaneously. He goes, my dad adopted me when I was 16 years old with my baby brother. He was 12 and he saved us from this and this and this. And I don't need to pay him back everything, but I want to look after him.

Wow.

And I was like, at that. So now I go, well, and how would that make you feel? We've opened the fucking door. We might as well go in.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know? And it's like, have you ever thought about that? Like what that would actually feel like? Like, so put yourself in the situation right now. Like you, you're doing that right now.

So you use that, use that like visualization?

Yeah. Well, there's associative and dissociative feelings.

Okay.

If I say, Pat, what would it be like if you were able to do this? You go, oh, that'd be really cool. And I go, Pat, what is it like if you are able to?

Okay.

Like it's a very associative feeling, and so what you're looking for is a look up to the left. Okay, and that and that's a that is a involuntary I am visualizing myself.

That's legit. That look up to the left.

Yeah, they can't stop it.

Really? Yeah, because I've heard that about.

I've seen so many things.

Yeah, right. Okay.

Like I don't know about lying. It's not like, but it's like it's engaging that side of the brain.

They're using their imagination.

Yeah, and they're going like that, and I see it all the time, and there's a smile like a very subtle. Little smile, and they go they go oh man that'd be awesome.

Yeah right.

And they're they're there, you know what I mean? And that's when I'm like got you motherfucker.

Like like like it's about see this is why it feels so dirty to do that kind of shit.

No but like you gotta oh I found a little emotional weakness let me just it's not a weakness though because the the the weakness is not being able to talk about it and not realizing the reality of the situation that they're in. Yeah. Like, and if you, if you never contemplate success, then failure is not real. And like, me and you both know that there are consequences to actions, right? And because we have— we, we lived in a world where death was the consequence, like, I look at things very differently because like, I know that fucking— they could walk outside today and get hit by a fucking bus.

Yeah.

So like, if you live your life like you could get hit by a bus tomorrow, Like, what would you do today if you knew you were going to die tomorrow? What would you do today? Why would you act any differently? Because like tomorrow is not promised, right? And so, and I think a lot of people walk around with their fucking eyes closed thinking that they have more time than what they do. You know, 80 years, it's not that long. And if you want to, if you want to, I think, do all the things that you want to do, like you can't pretend like you have more time than what you do. Because the same thought pattern that gets you to put it off for a day is the same as for a week, it's for a year, it's for a decade.

Yep.

And then all of a sudden you're like, man, I wish I did that.

Okay, so in that, in the process of going through that with someone in selling, is that part of that that you teach guys to do and that, uh, is part of the training package? Or is that stuff that you've learned? Because like talking about how you don't know what it would be like to be good unless you know what it's like to, to be bad, Or you don't know success unless you know failure. Like, that's Jung. That's the shadow work. Yeah, right. And so is that something that gets taught, or is that that you know that, or do you ever frame it in that way? Do you ever actually say to people like, oh, this is Carl Jung says?

Um, I like— I think transparency in the sales process is really important because like at no stage do I want to trick anybody.

Okay.

So like I just tell people, I go like, you know, there's, there's 2 main motivational factors that get people to actually do stuff. The first is the run towards. Like, if I put Usain Bolt— and I put it in very simple terms, and because I wanna contextualize, and I don't—

So that's the second time you've said Usain Bolt. Is that— that's the— that's the one you use on a call?

A lot, yeah. I used to use, like, a thing called, like, an ice cream truck. I used to use all kinds of fucking really funny visualizations, right? But I've— and to be honest, like, I can— I don't even have to use them anymore. I can just use my tonality to get them to answer.

OK.

Using an analogy is like a cheat code, right? So it's like, you know, Like, I can just go, like, well, what would that be like, man? Like, how would that make you feel? And I can say it in a way where they'll answer it.

OK.

But if I can't do that, because there's a particular skill set that goes along with that, to being able to bring forward enough empathy in your voice to where the person feels comfortable to actually answer you, that's acting. Like, it's real, though, but it's brought on. So it's like, I will just now show you empathy. Right? And that will make you comfortable enough to tell me something that you have never told anybody else. I've known you for 15 minutes.

Mm-hmm.

But, but if I, if I'm not skilled enough to do that, then I can go, hey man, like, you know, generally speaking, people, people, there's 2 motivational factors, right? So I can run towards and I can run away. But what I really want to understand is what are you running towards? Like that 10K a month, like what do you get? Like if Usain Bolt's running 100 meters, he wants the gold medal, right? He's running towards it. It's tangible. It's there. He knows what it feels like. He can see it. He can fucking grab it. Right. So what are you running towards to give you that kind of motivation where you're going to do the work, not only to run as fast as you can, but to fucking do the work in the background so you can even run that fast?

Mm-hmm.

And then they'll go, oh, this, and they'll get into it. And then once I get all that and I'll dive a bit deeper and, you know, kind of ask questions and kind of get to the real, real emotional, like, this is the, the thing that is driving you, then I'll, then, then I'll go into like the opposite. which is like the consequence. And I'll be like, okay, well, like, we know what you're running towards now, but like, I don't know if you've ever seen someone run out of a burning building, but it's a bit of a different type of running.

Yeah.

Right. And I go, so like, who would run faster? Usain Bolt running for 100 meters or Usain Bolt with a lion chasing him? I go, that motherfucker runs with a lion chasing him. Right. So like, what's your line? Yeah. What happens if you never figure out how to XYZ, and then I insert like the very specific emotional trigger. What happens if you never figure out how to get that?

Mm-hmm.

And they go, because like, what— so what I've done is I've created like an emotional— like that, right? So I brought them to this massive high point where I helped them visualize success and probably for the first time, like truly visualize success, right? Which is an important component to being successful. Like if you can't think about it and like tangibly fucking see it, you're not going to do anything about it. Like, you know what I mean? Because like, unless you can sort of—

this—

there's got to be some payoff for you. So you got to think about it. That's why like vision boards are helpful and all that kind of shit, right? And then, and then, but, but then if you never contemplate, like, if you— in my opinion, if you don't catastrophize never getting there, you're— when it gets difficult, you just stop.

Yeah.

Like, why did you keep going in selection? I was terrified that I was a pussy. Yeah, I was like, fuck, man. Like, I used to see people drop off and I would be like, I think that person is a living piece of human garbage and I do not want to be perceived in that way.

Yeah, for me personally, I hit a tipping point, um, about a third of the way through and it was I'd passed, like, in my head. And that's a different story, but prior to that, uh, it was very similar. It was the shame of going back to my job.

Yeah, shame.

Yeah, because I told him—

Powerful motivator.

Oh well, I told all my friends I'm off to go join Special Forces killing it. Like, and not, not really.

I don't know if you guys know, but they basically issued me my blacks, right?

Right. So like, I'd—

yeah.

And I told— I had a job like that I left to do that. And I was imagining myself going back to them and being like, I didn't make it. And just being like, that is unacceptable. That could not happen. I would die. Why?

Why is unacceptable? Like, that's— yeah, that's— that it's the thought. You know what it is? It's the con— it's, it's not, it's not the thought. It's the physical act of walking in Yeah. Turning, having the conversation.

Yeah.

That is so terrifying as a prospect that that moment in time will never happen. And there is no amount of effort that you can put in. Like, you will do anything required. And that's why people jump out of burning buildings.

Yeah.

Because, hey, I might survive the fall.

Yeah.

But I'm not getting burned alive. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. It's not the fact that they want to die in a less painful way. It's, hey, you never know. Yeah, I might survive that fall, right? Like that. And that is why people succeed. It's like, in my, in my opinion, like, people don't— the main motivator for anybody who's super hyper-motivated and just gets after it and is hyper-successful in any particular field, whether it's fucking thumb wrestling, arm wrestling, chess, business, whatever, is the, like, unyielding thought that failure is coming for you.

Yeah.

And that you will not allow it to happen.

Well, let me add to that, right? So, uh, Skinner brings us operant conditioning, and, uh, the things that drive you to do is positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement. But the thing about operant conditioning is that it's like retrospective, so you usually look back. And what we say of like positive reinforcement is that it's anything that you add that increases the frequency and likelihood of a behavior. So you need to have done it, and then you get a reinforcer, a reward of some kind that makes you want to do it again. But the thing with negative reinforcement, and that's what you're getting away from, is that it drives to action. So I suppose one of the things about like positive reinforcement is if you want to convince people to be successful using nothing but the visualization of positive reinforcement, they kind of need to have already been successful in something in order to make them more likely to be successful. So positive reinforcement only makes things more likely to happen again, whereas negative reinforcement can make it happen now.

Yeah. Which is why there's sort of 3 schools. There's 2 main schools of sales in the exact same way there is in dogs. There's negative only.

Yeah.

Which is you are a fucking piece of shit and everything you have done up until now has been worthless. And yeah, motherfucker. Like, there's like legit, dude, I've done the courses, right?

Yeah.

And then there's like these airy fairy fucking positive ones.

Yeah.

Like a Tony Robbins sort of model, right? Like where you just super NLP, visualize, yada yada yada. And then there's like—

so that's like, that's easy to bring people into, but it's just often not very successful. Yeah, right. Like, it's, it's so nice.

Stage selling. Yeah, stage selling is hyper-positive because it's a numbers game, right? Like, you'll, you'll close 4% of the room, but there's 10,000 people in the room.

Yeah.

Okay. Hey, because it's hard to go dark on stage. Some people can do it. Okay, some people can do it, but like, there's, there's lots of anchoring and there's lots of positivity and Like all these, you know, it's, it's not, not very negative based, right?

Stage sellers always seem to have like a shitty backstory as well. So that's, that's them getting motivation. Yeah, that's their motivation.

But the way that me and Jeremy do virtual events is I'm the negative. Okay. So I'm the dark, he's the light.

Okay.

Right. So like I set all the frames of all the darkness and I use my military background. It gives me context to be able to. Right. So it's an unfair advantage in that way where I can be like, whoa, Jeremy, I'm glad you said that. Because I'm a person who believes this, because I've been to more funerals than I have weddings. And let me explain. Snap it to you. Right. And I use like a real, oh snap, what's this guy about to say? And then I attach a darkness to like not doing something which others people. And then he can come in with like the light and people want to be part of the light because you don't want to other yourself. Anyway, there's a whole different psychology behind that. But that's why we close on stage together like 40%. Wow. When other people close at like 4%. Yeah.

Okay.

Right.

Well, that's a full spectrum of motivation then, right?

Yeah. Like if I was in the States and I was like not doing what I'm doing, like I would sell life insurance.

Yeah.

I'd be the most successful life insurance salesman on the planet. I've role-played people and they're like, I've been in life insurance for 20 years. I've never heard someone do that good.

Okay.

Like, yeah, if there's death involved, I'm all about it.

Yeah, right.

Yeah. Because, because, but because like, like, fuck you if you don't have life insurance, in my opinion.

Yeah, right.

Like, how fucking dare you? And that's the mentality that I think a lot of salespeople need. Like, if you're not willing to get your— yeah, life insurance especially, it's like, name final expense. Like, so you have no money and you want to be a fucking burden on your children? If you get hit by a bus, you're going to give them a $15,000 bill which they cannot afford, and you're not going to spend $87 a month? You got a fucking ciggy hanging out of your mouth. How's fuck you sound?

Yeah.

Like, that's my mentality, you know what I mean? So, like, I'm— it allows me to sort of go a little bit harder in the paint. And I see the same way, like, it frustrates me— or it doesn't frustrate me, but I have the same level, I have the same mentality when it comes to someone who has a clear problem in front of them, and it's like, you won't do anything about it? Oh, I have no sympathy for you. You know? I'm not particularly bothered if you buy. Because, like, if you buy, you buy. If you don't, you don't. Like, it is what it is. But, like, I want to allow you to not realize what you're doing. You are abdicating your responsibility. Great word, abdicate. But, um, so, like, take responsibility. Like, hey, man, if you, if you don't want to do anything about it, it's fine. Don't do anything about it. I don't care.

Like, own that.

But yeah, own it. Be like, yeah, I'm fat and I'm not going to work out. Like, I owned that for, like, the last 2 years. Right? Like, it's the reason why I bought a $7,000 sauna so I could mitigate some of it. Right? But now I have a PT 3 times a week, eating healthy, training, still using the sauna. Like, okay, I've been a piece of shit for long enough. Yeah, it is now to a point where I want to do something about it.

Yeah.

And I just didn't want to do anything about it before.

Yeah.

Like, that's on me. It's not on my genetics. There's like 16 genes that, that have that are the markers for obesity, and there's zero correlation between people who have obesity and the genes.

Really?

Yep. It's just choices.

Yeah, it's just that food is—

Except for me and you, obviously.

Yeah, I mean, yeah. Well, dude, it's interesting. Um, I've got an idea. I reckon you should teach me how to sell. I reckon that we could make a bunch of content that, I don't know, people might be interested in. Let us know. But I reckon if you— we could— yeah, I want to learn how to do it. Yeah, I want to learn. Whether I become a sales guy is a whole nother thing.

I hope I fucking find somebody to do the content. I quit.

Yeah, there's way more money in this.

I'm out of this bitch.

Um, yeah, let us know if you're interested in that because I think we could, um, because I like— I'm a blank slate on it. I know a lot about motivation. I know a fair bit about persuasion, but not in it in terms of selling.

Um, yeah, and I think you have the hallmarks of someone who could be good.

Yeah, I think it'd be interesting to do. I think it would be fun. At the least we could have fun doing it.

And you're dead inside, so that helps.

I have the capacity to be. I'm very alive when I want to be, but I have the capacity to be dead inside for sure. You know, I did 2 years at the Special Forces Training Center running selection courses and then training guys. 2 years, like 2 complete reinforcement cycles. I did pick the guys, trained them, the whole lot, got them ready to go. Um, and dude, there are times in that where you just have to go like, Deadpan, as someone is— as their whole self-worth is collapsing around them and all they need is someone to pat them on the back and say it's okay. And if you do that, then they'll be fine, and you can't. And, and no matter how hard you want to, because that will get them through and they shouldn't get through.

Yeah, right.

You just have—

yeah, it's a really weird thing. Like, I've— I didn't run any selections, but I worked on them.

Oh mate.

And it's, it's interesting to see, having been through it, it's interesting to To see people go through the emotional gamut, that's when they're tired too. Yeah, they're tired, they're hungry, they're hurting, and it's like, yeah, man, like, this is how you're supposed to feel.

I was at the, um, one of the nav checkpoints, right? So for people that you do this like 3-day NavX where it's just wandering around, you get a check, you get a grid reference, you go to there, you write down the thing, you get another one, you do these legs and legs, and it's, it's meant to be a test of navigation.

Endurance test.

It's the hardest, and that's where the most people pull off because you're by yourself just for 3 days, like 4 days, 3 nights, whatever it is, just wandering around the desert or the bush. And probably every 2 or 3— probably 2 or 3 times a day you get to a checkpoint that's manned, right? And this guy comes walking in the checkpoint. Now, I was one of the ones I was manning, and he hands me his withdrawal request straight away. Bam, here you go, right? And as he's walking in, he's kind of limping, looks sorry for himself, he looks like shit. So I'm doing the thing, I'm mean to him, I'm like, the fuck are you doing? You know, like the whole lot. And then he goes, I'm off, right? And he hands me his withdrawal request and I'm like, oh shit, sorry, man. Like, fuck, come in here. And so like, I bring him into my little tent that I've got at the thing.

Yeah.

And I've got like my cold esky full of drinks and I'm like, do you want a drink or something? He's like, oh, like he's like, like he's seen behind the curtain.

Yeah.

And I was like, yeah, like no worries. Like, I've got food here. Do you want to eat? Like, whatever, sit down. And I was being really nice to this guy.

Yeah.

And I was like, so where are you from? Turns out he's an officer and he's like calling me sir. And I was like, oh, you can cut that shit out, man. Like, I'm a fucking corporal. Like, I was like, it's That, that theatrics is over. Yeah.

Where are you from? You're done.

Yeah. Like, where are you from? And he's like, I'm the, you know, like wherever he's from, some infantry unit. He's the platoon commander.

How do you go back? Yeah.

And I was like, oh, that's cool. And so I call in, going to get him picked up. They're on their way. And he's sitting there. And about half an hour later of me being real nice to him, he's like, I think I'd like to keep going again. And I was like, oh, it's like, you can't.

Yeah.

And he's like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, you've seen behind the curtain. He's like, what? I was like, well, thing is, and like, I don't— no offense, but like, you're a weak person and, and you, you needed someone to be nice to you. And like, I'm happy to be that, but it means you're out. And like, now me and you, like, I have full respect for your rank again, which, you know, you formerly had none on the course, and I was the— I was in charge. But now you're back, like, it's all fine. Um, and I'll be— we can have as nice a conversation as you like, but You're done on the course. And he's like, no, no, I want to go again. And I was like, you can't, because the thing is, mate, you could be my boss and you've just exposed that you need to be coddled. Like, and like, it's fine. Like, it, it's, it's who you are. It's, it's not a character.

You're just not good enough.

Well, but I was saying this, right? It's not a character flaw, mate. Like, it's, it just, you're just who that is and you're the boss. Like, you're— I'm not allowing you to come into my unit and be in charge of me When you've just shown to me that you need me to cuddle you and tell you everything's going to be okay.

Give you a cookie. You can keep going. Yeah.

And he's like, like that. Like, oh. And I was like, so no hard feelings, but like, it's over. And he was like, there's hard feelings. And I was like, no, for me, they're right.

I'll never see you again. So what do I give a fuck?

You're off to the regular army again. See you later.

Yeah, that's where like, um, I mean, this is totally random, but like, you know, God, whatever. We're here now. You know toughness, not fitness.

Yeah. Oh totally. That's that's been my mantra my whole life.

Yeah yeah. Like you know seventy-two hours on the man. I like I like more like four or five weeks. But it would be really interesting in sales. You you get this weird environment where the SF guys are in the same platoon as the infantry guys, and it's like which which doesn't happen. Like everything is compartmentalized and segmented, and like you have to reach a certain echelon before. You get to see behind some of those curtains, but in like business, like you don't. You don't. Everyone intermingles with each other. It creates very destructive wants. You know, like my dad. You probably spoken to some of the guys. Like if you ask any one of the dudes at Sales Sniper, fucking anyone, they're like 100k months. What do I want to get to? It's like mate, like that is a long way off. You know, and and certain things have to align for that to even be possible. Just in terms of the product you're selling. anything like that, but it's sort of like an infantry guy going, I want to do fucking SO, like SRO operations and rope into fucking, you know, superyachts and smack terrorists in the face and shit, because those guys right there are doing it. It's like, oh yeah, but you're— I know you're physically close to that person.

Yeah.

But you're not close to that person.

Yeah.

You know? Um, so it creates a really interesting dynamic.

Yeah.

Where you've got like, uh, it's sort of like an NBA team where if it went from high school to NBA and everyone was on the same team.

The biggest difference, um, I don't know if we're running out of time, but the issue is I think in business you select from the top and in the military going into special forces you cut from the bottom. So one of the things, so like you look at the, the best dude at 2 Commando Regiment is only as good as the best dude at 1 AAR. He just never chose to do selection. So you get these guys who are phenomenal and are totally capable of it, they just didn't want to, didn't suit their lifestyle, didn't want to, whatever.

Yeah.

And so what, what happens with selection is you cut people away.

That's why I chose not to win the International Sniper Awards.

You just chose not to. Just your lifestyle would look terrible on the wall.

It would.

Yeah. But so we cut from the bottom. We say you're not suitable, you're not suitable, you're not suitable. Right. But in business, what happens is you say you're able to take people because you can pay them more. You can make it more lucrative to come across. Right. And so you can say to people like, we can pull from the top. You can take from someone else their best guy. But in the army, you can't do that. You can only cut away your shitty people. And so you end up with a pool of better people, but it still doesn't mean that your best guy is better than a random best guy somewhere else.

Yeah, I never really thought of it that way. Yeah, it's actually very similar to a sports team because what happens in like, you know, that the people born at the early half of the year, like, are disproportionately in the pros, right? Because they're older. Um, which means that like, they go when they're bigger, more capable, more coordinated. And in sport, that means you get more time with the coach, which is the exact opposite of what should happen.

Yeah.

But the best people get the most amount of coaching. And so with sales, it's like you're gonna sink most of your time and effort into the people who are performing the best, which creates a vast chasm between the best performers and the lowest performers because it's very difficult to justify doing specific training for lowest performers because you don't know the ROI is going to be there.

Yeah, right.

So like, for me, I'm very aware of that. So I, I have tried my best to put mechanisms in to counteract it, but it still happens. Like, you know, Yash was here, top performer. I do a one-on-one with him every week, right, to hone in certain skills. And to stop him from, you know, you know, murdering people with Kool-Aid or whatever. Right, right. But, but, um, you know what I mean? And say like Will Odoms, I've been having a one-on-one with him for years, every single week. Right. Um, and, and it's like, are they the top performers because they get the one-on-ones, or are they getting the one-on-ones because they're the top performers? And it's, it's— I, I don't know the answer.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? But I can't do one-on-ones with everybody. Yeah. I just don't physically have enough time. So I do a lot of group training sessions with people where I intentionally single people out who I don't get to see and speak to. But there is still like a— well, am I, am I causing it or am I— it was the chicken or the egg? Yeah. Yeah. You know, anyway, it's interesting, like a little conundrum there. I don't know the answer. I don't think I ever will. No.

Oh, well, we better wrap it up.

All right.

Let us know if you're interested in that kind of content. I don't know what we would do with it. It shouldn't be free. Will it be free? I don't know.

If you guys wanted to be free or paid, I'd be interested to know.

If even one person says they want it for free, everybody gets it for free. Yeah. Or no.

Yeah.

But yeah, I think that'd be fun. I think I feel like that would be good. Okay, let's do it.

We can do that. Um, do you want to pay now or at the end?

I knew that was coming.

All right guys, make sure you like, Subscribe for notification bell, all that kind of good stuff. And we'll see you in the next episode.

Bye bye. Put that coffee down. Coffee's for closers only.