🎙️ EP23: Angel Investing in Europe and Beyond with Denise McQuaid, CEO of Go… | InvestHer Podcast

Welcome to Invest for Podcast, episode 23. So this week for our funding conversation, we are turning to angel investing in Europe, and we're going to learn all about the state of play from Denise McRae, who is the CEO of the Go Beyond Angel Investing Network. Now they have over 500 to 600 angel investors from 42 countries, and you're going to learn a lot of insights about what's going on in angel investing in Europe, How to become an angel investor. If you're a founder, how do you approach the Go Beyond Network, and what are the different programs you can be part of to pitch to them? Lots of fantastic advice from Denise in this episode, so take a good listen now. Investor Podcast is for you, the female founder who has a product, a service, or a message that you believe in and need to get funded, or for you, the investor Who wants to learn more about the huge untapped investment opportunity that gives you a higher return? Women entrepreneurs. My name is Anne Ravanona. I'm an entrepreneur, TEDx speaker, and women's advocate, and I'm passionate about helping women entrepreneurs get funded. In each episode, we'll take a behind-the-scenes look into real-world funding tactics and strategies to help you get the funding you need faster. Let's put the fun into funding. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let's get started. So welcome everybody to this week's Funding Conversation. I'm your host, Anne Ravanona, from Global InvestHer, and I'm thrilled to have you with us on this week's Funding Conversation with Denise McQuaid, who is the CEO of Go Beyond. Welcome, Denise. Lovely to have you with us.

Thank you so much for inviting me on. I've been looking forward to having our conversation all week.

Oh, well, we are so thrilled to have you with us as well and have been looking forward to the conversation. So I want to dive straight in. We need to get started to learn a bit more about you. Okay, so tell us a little bit. Can you tell us one fun fact about yourself? I always like to start that way.

Okay, well, my fun fact, I think, is that most people don't know this, but I'm completely obsessed with space travel and have been for a very long time. We had a very passionate Irish ambitious astronaut called Niamh Shaw, which started my journey. She was in school with me way back in the day, and then I've continued to watch young and aspiring astronauts coming through, like Taylor Richardson in the US, who at 16 has already been chosen to go to NASA. So, and then Tim Peake from the UK, living in London, and the UK perspective, he definitely gripped our imagination. when he went to space. So that would be the thing that most people don't know about me.

Amazing! Well, we have something in common because my 17-year-old son is space mad. He wants to become a space engineer and an astronaut, and I mean, he's educating me every evening. He tells me, I learn about quantum physics, I learn about rockets, I learn about space. He's there analyzing Jeff Bezos versus you know, Virgin versus Elon Musk, et cetera. So it's super exciting. I just want to continue to welcome our other members who've just joined us. So Eleftheria, very nice to have you. Welcome, Hosen. Lovely to have you. Just say hi and where you're coming from in the chat box as we get started. So that's cool. You're a space nerd.

I would definitely take that title on. It's definitely an obsession. No problem there.

I love it. So tell us a bit more about how you got into angel investing, Denise.

Yeah, so my career has been kind of very varied from the beginning. I wanted to work in publishing from the very early stages. I was always obsessed with magazines and books, and I did work and live in the US and work in publishing for 6 years, and then moved back to Ireland where I'm originally from and spent a long stint stage of my career in Ireland in publishing, but really quickly understood that I needed to understand technology and the way of the world of investment quite quickly in terms of the transformation that this industry was going under at the time, and not all of it very positive. So I actually moved to China to run a technology business, which gave me a strong foothold into how to develop and manage that type of business, moving away from publishing. And then when I moved to London following my time in China, I started to work with Enterprise Island. I was based here in the London office, but Enterprise Island are the largest seed fund investor in Europe. And I started to work with the companies that they had placed their seed investment in, and I started to work with them in terms of developing their business, but also developing for their next stage of funding and moving into the VC. So from there, I moved in to run a technology accelerator, very early stage, and helping businesses go from ideation through to seed funding. And for the last number of years, I've worked with a number of organizations with a predetermined strategy, whether they wanted to raise finance, whether they wanted to do an MBO, or ultimately get themselves to exit. So I've been in the startup and investment ecosystem really solidly since 2012 when I moved to London.

Wow, guys, isn't that impressive? Put in the chat box, I love your comments, so just stick them in because I want to feed them in live to Denise as we're listening to her. I just love how it's such a windy career that you were very fixed on publishing and then ended up in China, UK, working for enterprise, like a government body doing funding, then an accelerator, and now you are with Go Beyond. So tell us more about Go Beyond because, you know, people are fascinated to learn more.

Yeah, so I joined Go Beyond last July, so I'm 12 months in. I'm what one would describe as a COVID baby. I've never met any of my team, I've never met my board, and I've never met any of the investors I've been working with for the last 12 months.

Wow, I love that term COVID baby. I never heard of that like that way.

So it's been a journey in terms of onboarding into a new business, but it's wonderful. The team have been wonderful and so have the investors within our community. So Go Beyond was started about 10 years ago, very much to provide European and US cross-border investment and to facilitate that cross-border investment. We continue to do that today. And we have a full community that syndicate together, which is sector agnostic. And then back in 2016, our founders decided that we would look very much at trying to drive the democratisation of angel investment. So to look at it as an asset class that was accessible to the many and not just the few.

Mm-hmm.

And that we would make it accessible both from a learning experience to come into a safe environment and a safe community so that you can learn the process of angel investing, everything from the risks involved to how to undertake due diligence, negotiation, valuation, and ultimately to make the minimum ticket and the minimum barrier level and open it up at €5,000. So our programmes have been running since 2016. We've launched 4 to date, and we're on our 5th one now, which is currently— we're onboarding investors in, which is focused on climate action.

Amazing. So, wow. So it's really interesting. And has your focus from the beginning always kind of been European? You've mentioned the US as well. So tell us how many angels are in your community now, because it's very impressive. I want people to know that.

Yeah, so we have 800 investors in our community. They're spread in 42 countries around the world. We have made many investments into US companies and have many investors from the US joining us, but the majority would be from mainland Europe. So, but we're definitely spread across the world for sure.

Okay, so I'm just checking in. Some of our attendees cannot see the full chat, and I'm just wondering, so Anne, you want to see the chat? You're talking to me, panelists, can you choose in the chat? You don't have that option to see everyone? Sometimes it's like panelists and attendees. Just want to check with her while she's doing that. No, sadly, I have no idea why that's not working, Anne. So I don't know if that's something I've set up on my side or not. So apologies if you can't, but please just put your— any question or comment you have, and I'll repost just so everybody can see it. Don't worry about that. Okay. So that's amazing, Denise. 800 investors in 42 countries. And I think that's really comforting and good to know because I think in our chats, You've told me that some of your angels are also VCs as well, because that's important for startups who could be targeting you to go and say, okay, I want to go to Go Beyond.

Yeah, absolutely. We have a number that are in the VC community also, but they're building their own personal portfolio with this facilitation that we provide at Go Beyond. And obviously coming in at lower-level tickets than they would be in their professional capacity. So we have a mixture of both. Our investors range in background and country. It's a very diverse community coming at angel investment with lots of experience because they may have built their initial portfolio in their own city or in their own country, and they come to Go Beyond to widen out the scope of the investments that they look at. And then we have the full community that are brand new to angel investing and want to come on the learning journey because the learning journey is a big part of the DNA of Go Beyond to make sure that people feel that they can ask the question that they may not understand and get the answer that will help them to develop the skills to become a really seasoned and professional angel.

That is so cool. So for those, anybody listening or watching this live, just tell us really quickly a little bit about that learning journey. So do you have like angel boot camp or specific events just for the learner angels to kind of get into it and then join your network? How does it work?

So our community are very curious, and every angel within our community would say their learning journey in terms of their investment journey never ends. So very much as part of our portfolio programs, as I said, this one that we have open is in climate action. So we will take both experienced and the new angels on a journey around the thematic, some of the things that they may want to look at in terms of assessing the companies. We've spent a lot of time developing our investment thesis for this programme and making sure the measurement and management framework was as cohesive and accessible, both from an investment point of view and a startup point of view. But also, we do fireside chats where we take companies through previous due diligences that we've done. We talk to entrepreneurs that we've invested in and get their side of it also. But also, our angels are very collaborative in terms of sharing And making sure that everybody is on the journey. So it's very much a process of learning together, but the elements we would focus on would be around assessing the business, so around the due diligence, around the valuation, around the team, what we would look for at each stage of the business that we would be looking to make investments into.

And so, so how— okay, how does that work then? So if I'm a learner angel, And I don't know anything about angel investing and I want to learn with you. Do I have to become a member of your network first, or are there things that I can just do to begin with?

No, all of our learning is done within the community. So we are a membership-driven model, both on our syndicated side and on our program side. So you pay your membership fee and then you have access to our library of resources, which is obviously our catalogue of learning sessions that we've done before, information around theoretics and types of technology that we invest in. And then obviously we have our monthly sessions that we do with investors.

Brilliant. So, and so that's one of the things, the links we will share everybody in the show notes and on the YouTube channel notes when this goes live. We will send direct links to exactly the membership. So, you know, if you are interested in becoming a member of Go Beyond and want to start your learning journey, or you already are an angel investor and want to continue to grow your portfolio with other fabulous angel investors from 42 countries— who wouldn't?— you know, check out that link. So we have a question from Anne Brooks, and she wants to know, what's your minimum investment that you make in startups?

So that depends, actually. So from our syndicated side, we will try at a minimum to invest a €50K ticket, and obviously that goes upwards from there.

Okay.

On our programme side, we raise a fund of 100 to 150 limited partners, and depending on the size of the fund when we close will depend on the capital we deploy. But our average ticket size in our program would be between $85 and $125. Nice.

Okay, so this leads very nicely, a segue into our conversation around your Climate Action Fund, Denise. So that's very exciting. I mean, cannot have literally a hotter topic. You and I were just saying how hot we are. You in London, what you said, it's 32 degrees. We're like at 29 here in Paris. So So tell us more about your Climate Action Fund and what's it about?

Yeah, so our climate action programme and our fund has been a labour of love for myself and the team since I joined. Obviously, in our previous programmes, we have focused on democratising angel investment for females for the first 3 programmes that we run. And our 4th programme was NextGen, which was where we supported and facilitated mother and daughter, father and son to come together on the learning journey and pass the skills of angel Nice. And when I joined, myself and the team went to our customers and went to our investors and said, what direction of travel would you be interested in viewing and seeing from Go Beyond in the next 12 months? And impact investing came out, Anne, as the number one that everybody was interested, those very much with a mature portfolio and those that had just begun their journey with us. And defining impact investing became the challenge because that is the big piece of the jigsaw that everybody is keen to define, and we needed to make sure. So myself and the team then spent a lot of time in terms of mapping out the ecosystem and what it would mean to our investors. And the 2 main themes that came were climate action and the circular economy.

Mm-hmm.

They were the areas of focus that people were keen to explore the technologies. And as I say, we've launched— excuse me— we've launched our Climate Action Program, and the areas of technology that we're looking at are clean energy, the built environment, food, agriculture, and land use, and agri-tech. So a very wide range, not exclusively those, but very much our investment thesis is focused on financing solutions for a low-carbon, resilient global economy. And very much that those startups that are developing innovative solutions and business models to really have an impact on climate change. So that's, that's where we got to. But ultimately, Anne, the research within our own community led us to one element, that there was definitely an appetite within our own community. But then obviously we looked at the whole ecosystem, both from a startup perspective of where the deals would come from, both in the US and in Europe. And we ultimately mapped up all of the VCs that are working in this space, because ultimately the aim of our desire for our companies is for them to continue to grow and invest and scale. And in a lot of cases, that's going to take more money. So we needed to build all of the relationships with the VCs that are focused on this agenda too. So we spent a lot of time with that and building out our partner network. We're working with the Global Investor from a female founder perspective, but Solar Impulse Foundation, Living Labs, Catapult Accelerator, Climate Kick Accelerator, and looking at some of the really interesting technologies. And then from the VC perspective, we're talking to many across Europe that are interested and focused in this space.

So that— I mean, I love that. I think number one, what stands out from what you've just described in your process, Denise, is that you are completely customer-focused in that you have talk to your community to see what it is that they're interested in investing in. And you've gone really deep into the actual stakeholder map, the partnership map. I love the way you're kind of saying, okay, what are the things you care about? How can we help you invest in those things, into those sectors? And how can we identify fantastic upcoming tech and companies who are working in that space to create impact and innovation? And on the other side, what I love is that you take it further through thinking through on the partnerships that are gonna add value to your portfolio companies, to your investors, so that they grow. Because it's, as you rightly say, it's in everybody's interest that once they raise whatever it is from you, their first $80K to $125K, that they can then go on to raise with one of your partner VCs or other investment partners and give your members a great result, your fund a great result, and of course, help the startup to grow and so on. I just, I want to underline that because not everybody does it that way, Denise. So really, I think congratulations to you and to Go Beyond for doing that because it's pretty rare and I just love it.

Yeah, I think if we look at some of the statistics, Anne, around impact investing and particularly in climate change, I mean, there has been to date $60 billion invested into climate technology in recent years and there are now 43 tech unicorns. So everything would indicate that the market is there and that the potential is there, but it's very hard for some of these businesses to get early-stage funding.

Yes.

And they're still validating their proposition, still validating their routes to market and their growth strategy. And one of the things in terms of looking at our measurement and management framework that my colleague Steve spent a lot of time developing was to make sure that we weren't being prohibitive to these businesses either, because impact and measurement and how you look at these companies is becoming very difficult for very early-stage businesses. And we wanted to make sure that we didn't have to sacrifice profit to make, you know, ultimately, as we want returns for our investors. But we also didn't want to make sure— we didn't want that it was prohibitive. So that took us a lot of time to make sure that that was robust and that we had figured that out because Go Beyond has always been an enabler of growth for the startup. It's a very big focus for our investors. They want to be able to open up their networks. They want to be able to support the investors from a development and a commercial point of view. And having such a breadth in many countries enables us to do that. But from, you know, and then obviously with everything that happened with the pandemic, and even though the pandemic still grips society's attention, you know, we're still— we still need to fight climate change. And 30% of the repair and recovery funds from the EU were being deployed into this challenge as well. So it was all coming together, very much customer-driven, but the environment around us was indicating that that was the direction of travel too.

So you are exemplifying what you kind of would ask from your portfolio companies, i.e., the right product for the right customers at the right time. and then the right messaging to them. Because here I put the emphasis on time, because I agree with you, you know, it is— the time is now for climate action. It is a hot topic, no pun and every pun intended. But it's also, from a global perspective, that's the growth engine for our planet. I mean, everything is leading towards the SDGs. And how can each company on this earth contribute in some way to one of those 17 SDGs? And like, I'm part of the W20, which is the engagement group on women for the G20 for policymaking. And I can tell you that like, those are the core things from the Italian presidency this year. It's like people, planet, and, you know, purpose. It's like, how can we focus on the people and the planet and profit? You know, it's not just all about the profit. And green tech, green tech, we need more investors investing in climate action and in green tech and in blue tech, so in the water, everything there. But we also need more female-founded companies in it because you are absolutely right, that is where the huge— it is one of the game-changing areas for the sustainability of our planet. Without management of agriculture and of our resources, our natural resources, and then of course the population side is the impact. You know, we cannot live on this planet. I know we're going to space, and nodding again to your space passion, but really it is the focus moving forward.

Well, Anne, I think if we look at all of the challenges that are faced in countries and communities, a lot of the climate change is impacting women adversely.

Yes.

So in order to be able to really, really support that on-the-ground change that's needed at an economy level and a community level, we need to be having female founders developing solutions that are impacting them. And so, you know, it's We've talked many times about the need for diversity and obviously championing and investing in female founders, but we need— the majority of people displaced or affected by climate change are women. And so we need to, we really need to focus on this.

We really need to focus on it. And I mean, thank you for choosing to do that, and thank you for listening, and thank you to your network and to your angels for pinpointing that as a priority. action area because it's extremely needed. And yeah, we just have to keep pushing forward on this. So one of— again, Anne Brooks is asking a question. It's a very good question. She wants to know what's the difference between your various communities, so between the Go Beyond, Rising Tide EU, NextGen, and Cedar MBA. So she's obviously done her homework and checked you out. So can you kind of Unravel those for us.

Yeah, so within Go Beyond, we have obviously our community, community of syndicated investors, and those investors make the decisions themselves. So they decide how much capital and which companies that they will deploy the capital in. The previous programs that we've run that Anne has just mentioned— Rising Tide, NextGen, and now our Climate Action Program— this is led by an investment committee, and this is a a committee that is developed both with skills and expertise in the domain of climate action, but those that are skilled and have very deep domain knowledge in angel investing and early stage. So it's a mixture of both domain expertise and investing expertise.

Mm-hmm.

Within our programmes, our programmes are led by this investment committee. So they do the initial screening on all of our technology that we're assessing. And then we bring the technology to the startup or to the community to review in a pitch environment as most people are from an angel investment community. And what happens in the programme side is that every investor has a vote.

Mm-hmm.

So it's very much you're going with the collective and the majority. So we will— you may not be passionate about one piece of technology, but you're coming on the journey, and you're going with the collective vote. So everybody has a voice, led by the investment committee, but everybody has a voice. On the syndicated side, you make those decisions for yourself.

That's very clear. That's— thank you. I think that's, that's a great way to, to unravel that point. And so what impact do you want to achieve with the Climate Action Fund? I know, like, first step is to actually gather, as you said, 100 to 150 investors together to create this fund. Once you've got the money, what is the impact that you want to actually create?

Well, we'd like to define and identify between 8 and 10 startups because our programmes have the ambition to help you and support you to build your portfolio. So we will identify between 8 and 10 companies to deploy our capital into. And very much, it's really very much about reducing carbon emissions. And very much focused on, you know, building, as I said, a low-carbon, resilient global economy and making sure that we can measure the impact and the intentional impact that these companies will have on climate change.

And how do you plan on being able to— like, what criteria are you going to be measuring? I'm sure you've thought about things you want to be able to measure on the impact on climate change.

Yeah, so obviously we will be looking at— so there's a number of elements, and it would slightly depend on the company because it will slightly depend on the solution that they would be providing. But we wanted our framework to run through the whole process, so run through from screening into the pitch, into due diligence, and all the way through, because our programmes run over a 6-year lifecycle. So we needed to be able to see and grow and look at those companies in terms of helping them and supporting to develop their ultimate KPIs. We haven't put a rigorous, rigorous ESG framework— there are so many out there from an impact perspective— our companies are too early, Anne.

Yeah.

And if we cripple them too early, then, you know, their chances of success are going to be Lovely.

So, okay, there's a question coming in around— it seems to be you're focusing very much on tech companies in climate action. So is it only tech startups that you will be investing in, or other industries like in drink industry and other industries as well?

No, no. So we're looking at across the board, Anne, both tech and product. We are seeing some really interesting technology coming out and coming through at the moment, mainly tech, I will say, from that perspective of what we're seeing. But we will look. We have looked at some vegan food products who have a very strong focus on their delivery and their circular economy in terms of the transport and distribution. And we have looked at some science-based, not necessarily fully tech, but science-based products as well. So We wouldn't be exclusively tech, but the majority of our investments are in technology.

It makes sense because again, it needs to be scalable. That's the thing. I mean, when you're doing early stage or in any kind of investing, but you are looking for tech or tech-enabled, it just helps. And I like the way you answered that. Like, you are looking at products as long as they have a really interesting, you know, circular economy distribution system or a way that's not going to damage the environment and how you distribute or produce the product or service that they're doing.

And we're seeing some amazing technologies coming through. And it's really exciting for myself and the team and obviously the investment committee. I mean, we've— we're looking at a great company at the moment in Switzerland who are very much B2B software that will help communities trade surplus renewable energy, to a company in Estonia that have built nanofiber scaffolds. So don't ask me for the science behind that, but nanofiber scaffolds to help sell cultured meat, get to mainstream adoption a lot quicker, through to companies that are improving the delivery of goods onto construction sites and managing the data, both from a materials and a transportation point of view, to leather-based products, you know, grown from mushrooms. So we love that one. We're seeing so many wonderful— and so many wonderful female-founded businesses in this space. So yes, we're seeing a whole range, and it's all going through for review with our deals team and our investment committee.

So even though, like, let's go back to the criteria. So we're talking about seed stage, or also do you look at pre-seed, or is that too early for you?

We would like the company, Anne, to be post-revenue, but we would look at something that was quite innovative that was coming out. We have in the past invested from a Globeon perspective in some deep tech, that may never actually get to the commercial outcome from that perspective. But there is a fine balance between the agenda that is driven by completely P&L and looking at the business plan from that perspective, and also where the investors can add huge benefit in terms of understanding the deep tech, understanding that industry, that's going to take some time. And we've had companies come to Exitus and have been acquired quite quickly based on the IP and being very IP-driven in their initial stages. So it would depend, but we tend to look at post-revenue and validate it out commercially with not just one client, but possibly several.

Yeah. Makes sense. Makes sense. And so I'm glad you mentioned Switzerland because Hosen Lee has a question and they're asking, why do investors, either angel and VC outside of Switzerland, tend to ignore Swiss tech companies while they're open to ecosystems, you know, other companies from the UK, Germany, France, or the Nordics? So how come Switzerland's being ignored?

Well, that's really interesting because from a Go Beyond perspective, Switzerland is our home. That was where Go Beyond was founded. The majority of our investors from our community are actually based in Switzerland. And it's interesting, that question, because also the largest population of female and angel investors are Swiss-based by research that was done in 2020. So that's interesting that that is felt. I'm not sure I fully agree, and I'd be happy to arrange a call and discuss that one further, because a lot of our collaborations are happening both across Europe and in Switzerland. One of the companies that I mentioned, the B2B software company that we're looking at with the surplus renewable energy trading platform, they're Swiss-based. So we are definitely seeing a flow of both investors and investment both in and out of Switzerland. So I'm sorry that that is maybe the perceived position, but we would definitely be seeing it both ways.

So I love that. So that leads very nicely into this question, which is kind of broader. I'd love your take. You're sitting and you are acting in the centre of angel investing in Europe and beyond, and that's why I love it, it's Go Beyond. What would you say is the state of angel investing in Europe? Can you give us your overview of the key trends that you're seeing? Let's start there.

Yeah, I think it's really fascinating, and the ecosystem is definitely moving quickly. And I would say from my perspective, definitely joining Go Beyond, where my focus would have been from an Irish and a UK perspective before joining Go Beyond. I'm definitely seeing a lot of growth in new angel groups and new syndication platforms. I think that collaboration is very open in Europe at the moment. We've worked with other angel groups in other countries, and we continue to grow out that network and collaborate, particularly because we're offering an impact focus climate action program now, which not an awful lot of other angel groups are offering. They're still saying sector agnostic in their group, and they're keen to obviously offer this as an opportunity for their networks. So I would say it's very active, it's very buoyant at the moment, and the deal flow coming through is quite spectacular.

I love that. So, and when— can you tell everybody the breakdown of your 800 investors? Because you have a huge percentage that are actually women investors, and that's, that's pretty rare. So what is the breakdown of your community?

It's 50/50, 49/51 to be completely precise. We have been very lucky in our previous programmes that we've run, the first 3 that were started in 2016 and have run since, which was very much focused on this asset class, making it accessible for female angels, which has enabled our community to grow and nurture great angels. And I also, I think it's that Go Beyond's community has grown with very, very many people introducing other members. And it's a safe place and a safe environment. And a lot of people, a lot of females feel very comfortable in that. As they embark on their journey. So it's about building their confidence, and I think Go Beyond does a really good job on that side.

I love it, and I just want to kind of remind our listeners and viewers live, if you have any questions, keep putting them in the Q&A box. If there's a funky thing happening with the chat, I don't know why, put it in the chat and/or the Q&A. I'll see both, so don't worry, it's going to get there. So yeah, so that's cool. So you're seeing that it's very active in deal flow. So tell me more about deal flow. What percentage of the deals are you seeing that are from female-founded or co-founded companies, Denise? Is that on the rise? What's your view there?

I would say it's on the rise, Anne. It's still not anywhere close to where it needs to be. It's still the challenge. I think the growth in angel groups that are focused on females is a very positive sign, because if the female angel investors are there, I'm hoping that we'll be able to uncover more female-founded businesses. It's nowhere close to where it needs to be, and I think there are many reasons for that. And, you know, one of the things that is very close to our heart is ensuring that we have that balance. We have that balance in our community, so we have to have that balance in our investment committees. We have to have that balance in our— in the teams and businesses that we're assessing. But I think it's interesting, because if you look at angel investment percentages, you know, based on those that actually profess to be an angel investor, because there's a lot of angel investors that don't actually classify themselves as an angel investment, because they may not feel that they've invested a larger sum, or they may not feel that they've built a significant enough portfolio to give themselves the title. But I think it's interesting where the female angels are really— where the growth is happening. So as I mentioned, Switzerland being number 1, Bulgaria, I think interestingly, is number 2, Spain is number 3. So the countries that we're really seeing are not the natural areas, particularly because they haven't had that many tech unicorns, or that ecosystem hasn't been as mature as it may have been in France or Germany, or probably exclusively to that comment, in Switzerland. But there hasn't been a huge, I suppose, focus on those countries from an exit perspective, or the tech unicorn that's coming. I know they're there, but they're not as many as in other countries. But the angels are there, and I think that's That's what's really interesting is that the change in the— is who's driving the change and where these angels are, these groups and passionate women are forming.

And so what would you say are the challenges that you're seeing in angel investing in Europe today? And then what are the opportunities?

Yeah, I think having been based here in London for a long time, obviously the tax incentives from a UK perspective, from an EIS and SEIS, really do open up the opportunity for angels. I think there are many regulatory and governance pieces that I think governments need to have some intervention on, whether that's capital gains, whether that's dividend tax returns, you know, and making— because the UK has uncovered many angel investors that probably wouldn't have ever ventured into that direction without these tax incentives. So I think I would love to see more in more European countries and more incentives and structures set up to facilitate. I think there is some improvement to be done in terms of some of the syndication and co-investment vehicles that I've seen. Obviously, we've been syndicating at Go Beyond for a long time, but there are still elements of that from a regulatory and compliance perspective that need to be strengthened across Europe. from that perspective. And I think making the minimum ticket size to become an angel investor— people need to talk more that it doesn't need to be tens of thousands of pounds to start your journey. And I think people, as an asset class, you know, obviously there are risks involved without question, but I think, you know, you don't need to have hundreds of thousands of pounds in the bank to start your journey. And I think that would help uncover more angels, both male and female, if they knew that the minimum ticket could be €5,000.

Yeah, and I mean, like, I'm just thinking back to when my son was born 17 years ago. I was a part of a startup. A friend of mine who had approached me and he said, I need you to translate this document into English for me, and he had been stating he was creating a startup on managing employee stress in the workplace. And I said, that is good. I said, no, no, I'm not going to do this. I'm going to be your— I'm going to be a partner. I'm going to work with you. And I became an angel, €5,000 in there, and worked in there for free for 2 years because I was just passionate about his project. But it was my first angel investment, if you will, at an early, very early stage without realizing it, but that's what I was doing. But that's what I was doing. And like, you know, I got my money back and it was all good. So I think it's a really important message that you're saying, that we need to realize that we're not talking about gazillions, you know, that we can start off with a $5K ticket.

Yeah.

Or, you know, even if you're in a syndicate, like, how would that work if somebody is a, let's say, a very— like, nobody— no, someone has never done angel investing before and they want to join one of your syndicates? Like, what would they need to put in? Would it be €5K or would it be €1K or just €5K is your minimum?

Yeah, €5K is our minimum. Yeah, so that has always been an important part of Go Beyond's DNA, was to make it accessible. But we have a community of deal leaders that are spread across Europe who are embedded in their startup ecosystems, who are looking at technology all the time, judging on EU juries, involved in university spinouts and research, who are always looking at technology, and they bring a lot of those deals to Go Beyond.

Wow.

Our deal leader community are incredible and have been a wonderful part of my journey in onboarding into Go Beyond. But those deal leaders then, should we bring an investment to the community and there is a desire to step forward, even if you're not part of our programme and part of our learning journey, you can join a due diligence team led by that deal leader. So you have the ability to go on the journey. You may be coming at it from a career perspective.

Yeah.

So I have experience in publishing, so I will look at this piece of digital technology because it's publishing-related, but I have no angel investing experience. So I think people need to appreciate that their skill sets from their job can be equally as important to those that are investing and have been investing for a long time. Those complementary skills are so important in any due diligence process. We have investors that are very new to investing that bring such amazing domain knowledge or thematic knowledge that just enhances the due diligence process.

You see, that's So important for you to say, and thank you for saying that, because that is, that is about making this accessible. You can be a subject matter expert and, and bring that expertise, because what angels need to be, and particularly for the early-stage founders, is smart money. So they have to come with your network as well as your knowledge. And so even though you may not know the investment process yet, you learn that, but you're bringing the lens of your experience or your sector expertise or your domain expertise, as you said. And I mean, that's very important, particularly I think for women to hear, Denise, because a lot of women may self-select out because we don't think that we have what it takes to be an angel, which is not true. It's simply not true.

Absolutely. And I think there's so much— and we see it in Go Beyond all the time— is country knowledge, you know, of people reaching out. I get calls all the time, even though it's a long time since I lived in China, but companies that are expanding into China, but I may have no knowledge of their industry sector. I may not know the technology that they're trying to deploy, but I do know how to set up a company in China, which is very complicated. So you can come not only with your investment hat or your domain knowledge hat, your country-specific knowledge. And so many people in this world, particularly now with COVID and people's ability to move around the world, that domain knowledge has a huge monetary value to it as well. So I think it's important that nobody feels that they don't have something to contribute. And you may— to the team, to the founders, or to the community of investors that you're syndicating with. Everybody's— as our investors at Go Beyond have always said to me, angel investing is a continuous journey. Even if you have a very, very successful portfolio, you always have keen to understand more, and curiosity makes a big difference.

I love that. I love what you're saying, and I just want to connect with one of our founding— funding conversations a couple of weeks back with Mac from Rare Breed VC in the US, because he was saying something very similar. So he does pre-seed VC funding, and for overlooked founders again, and basically what he was saying was that, you know, VC needs to take into account the culture of the people that they're serving. So it's not just the national culture, it is the— just the general culture of that population. So whether it's a Latina culture, whether it's a Black culture, you want to be understanding that you won't have an understanding of the product that is serving people with naturally curly hair if you do not have naturally curly hair. Or if you don't have a mother or sister who's having to manage and make that beautiful and soft and etc., etc. And I really love the way he put the emphasis on the cultural side, which is exactly what you're saying from a national culture as well, because you're absolutely right. This is where the value of diversity is really coming in, isn't it? I mean—

And it's diversity in so many levels, and it's diversity of thought. And, you know, in a lot of our pitch sessions, it's really interesting to see the debate that can arise from somebody who's coming at it from knowledge of the industry or knowledge of the sector to somebody who is just coming at it with a fresh perspective.

Yes.

And, you know, the healthy debate is part of the journey, and it's part of being able to have that diversity of thought and bring it together to make smart investments, but also to make investments into founders that you know you can build a relationship with and that you can go on the journey with them.

Yes.

One of the things that we, as a community, we want to be there for our companies and support them on that growth journey. And that starts as soon as the deal pitches. Could I work with this person? Can I help them? Can I— because it's not just about money.

It's not. And you see, that's— you see, that's why I love what you're, you're kind of demystifying this whole thing about angel investing. It isn't just about, about money. It is about, um, all the things that we've just talked about and just realizing that it's often those other things that are much more valuable to a startup. Yes, your cash is valuable, but actually it's like that domain expertise, that country expertise. If you're targeting to get a break into China, having you on board as an advisor or an investor is just, like, worth its weight in gold, just to help them to save time and money on making mistakes that can be avoided, because you bring that fresh perspective. And I like the way you said diversity of thought and the fresh perspective, because even if an angel is new to angel investing and joins your community, you know, because they're new, they're going to be asking questions that, that sometimes when you're further down the journey, you kind of forget, and that it's good to remind yourself after a while. that still is a very good question, and there's no such thing as a stupid question. There just isn't.

There isn't.

You know, and that's why I love one of your key messages, what you're saying, Denise, is like, if you're curious, if you have a little bit of disposable money and you want to support innovation in sectors that you care about, become an angel, you know. And I think also from learning from discussions with other angel networks and so on. I think one key tip I would share as well is that to diversify the portfolio. Like, a lot of the investors I've spoken to and so on, they say it's good to have, if you can, build up to about 10 to 12 companies, because then, you know, you're going to have the curve of some that will really be taking off and others maybe not, and some in the middle that are just chugging along, and they'll still get managed, but you're not going to get a good return. You're going to learn a lot of stuff with them. But you'll know where to put your energy and your time and extra money, you know.

Yeah, I think, I think it's interesting, you know, from definitely from a community of investor perspective. I mean, we look for passionate, curious, tenacious entrepreneurs, but that's what Go Beyond's community is as well. So we are hopefully investing in companies that reflect people within our community as well, and those that really, really want to make a difference to these early-stage businesses and support Yeah, yeah, I love that.

Passionate, curious, tenacious entrepreneurs who want to make a difference. You know, who wouldn't want to be part of a community that supports you to do that? I mean, seriously, I think you're gonna have loads of people running to, to check you out and to, to become a, uh, an investor. So what would be your specific advice to any female founders raising money, Denise? You've got a lot of experience giving these tips. What are your key tips to the female founders?

Yeah, I think for me, one of the things, and I see it all the time in some of the mentoring I do outside of my day job with Go Beyond, is that I think female founders need to not be afraid to fail and also not be afraid to ask.

Yes.

I think those are 2 things for me that I see all the time. It's like, I don't want to approach an investor until I'm absolutely ready. And well, you may never be ready unless you get the capital into your business to facilitate your growth plans. Not everything needs to be perfect to approach an investor, but I would say be very sure in your approach. So do your research. I get a lot of blank LinkedIn requests. I get a lot of pitch decks them through to me. I don't know the context. I don't know who you are. I don't know who's recommended you to come to me personally or to Go Beyond from that perspective through LinkedIn. So I would say, please don't send blank LinkedIn requests.

Mm-hmm.

I'd say this even for people connecting, but particularly if you're a founder, because I may not— and from a Go Beyond perspective— be the right investor, but our network is incredibly strong across, across the world. And there may be a community that is focused on femtech, for example. There's a very strong angel community here in London completely focused on that. You may not be right from a Go Beyond perspective, but I could possibly make the introduction there for you, point you in the right direction. So I would say to any female, please give context in your outreach. and be specific with your ask. If it is feedback on the deck that you want, ask for that, but also give me a timeframe. You know, I may not have the capacity to drop everything and look at the deck for you. If it is a case that you're, you know, wanting to reach investors in a particular country or sector, please be specific in that. But I would say, don't be afraid to fail. Don't be afraid to ask. And not everything has to be perfect within your business to raise investment. And that's part of what the investment is there for.

So such good advice, Sinéad, such good advice. And what would you say are your favourite fundraising resources for founders? Where should they look to learn about this when they're at the beginning of their funding journey?

Well, I have a lot— I spend a lot of time on Twitter, and I have a few favourites that I follow from a funding perspective. Very much kind of spread all over, but with— and with different focuses from a female funding perspective. So I follow Sarah Turner, who runs the Angel Academy here in the UK. I think she's very insightful. I think she's got great opinions. I definitely think she's tenacious and passionate, and will definitely make a difference from that perspective. I love Suzanne Beagle, who is very focused on gender-smart investing, and I think she puts an incredible lens to that. I love all of the content that comes from Mindshift Capital.

Yeah.

I think they do a really— they make it accessible, I think, is what they do. And they demystify in terms of some of the content that they produce. And I really like Heather as a thought leader in this space. from that perspective as well. And then I think there are, for me, there are a lot of groups. Obviously Global InvestHer, you've got amazing resources on your website, Anne, but, you know, Ada's List here in London, and I say it started in London but now global, is a phenomenal resource both from start— you're starting your investment journey right the way through to raising funding. Awaken Hub, which was founded by friends of mine in Ireland, not exclusively to Ireland, but has a great network in supporting female founders. So I would say find your tribe on this journey, and there are so many women thought leaders in this space that are sharing amazing content. But try and find a community. They're all over Europe, and definitely from my perspective, I'm seeing so many of them. starting and growing all the time. There was a brilliant article in Sifted this week highlighting the angel investors, the female investors in, you know, Estonia and Slovenia and Slovakia, which I wasn't aware of, and some of the communities that are coming there. There's Women for STEAM in Spain. You know, there's so many wonderful communities that I think Don't try and go it alone. Try and find the support networks that you need in your city, your country, your region, and don't be afraid to try a new one in a different country. It may help and support the development of your business and your investment journey.

I love that. This is part of your global mindset, Denise, isn't it? Because that's your curiosity kicking in. Like, you know, I love that piece of advice to like, yes, find your tribe, a local tribe, but also Also try in other countries, you know, don't just stick to what you know in the area that you know. I love that piece of advice, that's awesome. And if you— I love this— so how can our listeners connect with you? What's the best place to connect with you and go beyond?

Yeah, so from my own personal perspective, I am on Twitter and it's my name, it's @DeniseMcQuaid. On LinkedIn, obviously accessible there too, and it would be great to know the context when people do outreach, that you were on the webinar here with us today. And as I say, be specific with the ask. Always happy to connect, and if I can help, I will. And then from a Grow Beyond perspective, I think one of my team can drop the link.

Yes, can you drop it in, Anna, please? Drop the link in the chat.

So to register, if there are investors that would like to hear more about our climate action program, talk to one of the team in terms of understanding the investment committee, the investment thesis, you know, how the program works. Anastasia and Steve and I will be happy to take any from that perspective. And then if there was a startup that is fundraising, they can register on our website. And so obviously we are very specific on climate action for our program at the moment.

Yeah.

But our syndicator community is sector agnostic, so it can be So on your form, when people and startups apply, do they—

can they apply to both a programme and a syndicate, those 2, or do they have to do 2 separate applications? Just so we know.

It will go into the deals team. We do ask that you are specific if you are interested from a programme perspective and the Climate Action Fund, but they are reviewed by the deals team and viewed from both perspectives. Because there, there may be startups that come to us for the Climate Action Program that are trying to raise more money, and we can obviously open those up to our syndicated community too. Or that we, we're still fundraising for our Climate Action Program at the moment. Our fund will be another few months before it's closed, so we won't be deploying capital over the summer from that perspective. So it may be that we could open it up to the syndicated community. So happy for them to be registered, and they'll go through to our deals team and be assessed depending on the direction of travel.

That's phenomenal. So I've reposted the links, so they're coming through. Anastasia, thank you so much, Anna, for sharing the links. I'm sharing them in the chat to panelists and attendees, and don't worry if for some there seems to be maybe a bug. Can the rest of you see it or not when I'm reposting? Just type if you can in the chat because I may have a bug.

Our email address.

Ah, I know what it is. I had switched something on. I've just changed it now because I had not— I had allowed attendees to chat with panelists only. So that was my bad. So I've been reposting, guys. Can you see what I've posted? Let me put repost again. Now you can chat. Do a test.

Well, our email address, if people would like to talk to a member of the team, is ask@gobeyondinvesting.com. And yeah, the team will pick that up and we can direct your query to the most appropriate member.

They can see them now. That was my bad. This is— see, you live and learn. So I'm reposting your links, Anastasia. Don't worry, I'm reposting so everybody can see. So my bad, sorry about that. Thank you so much. And what would be your last message, Denise, that you'd want to share with everybody who's with us here today?

Yeah, I think both from an investor perspective and from a founder perspective is be brave and be willing to take the risk, both on your founding journey, if you're deciding to go that direction and step out and be brave, and from your investment journey. Find whether it's a community like Go Beyond or a local angel group in your city, One of the things that I would say, if you're early stage and considering it, get involved in mentoring on a startup programme in your city. Learn it from the startup side, and then potentially that will give you more confidence to move into the investment journey. I mentor on the Imperial University here in London, and it's so exciting to see such amazing university spin-outs. But I've been doing that a long time, and I think it builds up your skill set both from understanding the mindset of a founder, because that's a very important part of your investment journey, I think.

Yeah.

And I would just say be brave on both sides, and come and— as you find your tribe, both from a founder perspective, find your investment tribe too. And they're there. You don't have to go it alone, and you don't have to learn the journey alone.

See, I totally love what you're saying, and that's exactly what what we believe in at Global Investor. And it really is like you don't have to go it alone. We totally ascribe to that, and it is a tribe. And so, you know, for those of you who are listening, if you don't know about our community, check out our community, and we'll be doing more and more wonderful things together. Go beyond and Global Investor in the autumn. So stay tuned as we do. some more great stuff for both founders and investors. So thank you so much for being with us today, Denise.

Thank you for having me.

It's been such a pleasure. And if you have any last questions, guys, type it in now. And no worries, um, even when I, I'm going to close the session now, I can still capture those last questions. Put them in and we will get them to Denise afterwards. We will put all the resources that you mentioned in the show notes, Denise, and Denise's website Podcast episode and YouTube version of this will be coming out in about 2 weeks. We're like, you know, a couple of weeks, we're promoting our last weeks and so on, so you'll be coming out very soon. So if you missed it today, don't worry, you're gonna have many opportunities to catch this again. Thank you so much, Denise, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you for having me, and I'm happy to connect with anybody and help and support on either side, both from a family Or an investor perspective, if I can help in any way, please do get in touch.

Phenomenal. Thank you so much. Bye everybody. Great to have you with us.

Bye.

Bye. Thank you for listening to InvestHer Podcast. Don't miss more great funding tips and insights by subscribing to the podcast on Apple or your favorite podcast host. And while you're there, I'd love you to rate and review the show. We'd love to hear from you. So if you'd like to send in some questions, interact with our guests, or suggest other great people we should feature, join our community on the Flick InvestHer group or send us a message on investherpodcast.com. Want more great resources for female founders about funding? Check out our InvestHer Academy at academy.globalinvesther.com. I'm Anne Ravanona and look forward to having you with us again for our next episode. Let's put the fun into funding and get more women entrepreneurs funded.