🎙️ EP65: Capital With a Conscience: Pierre Norman Rolin on Investing in Women… | InvestHer Podcast

Hi there. Welcome or welcome back to InvestHer Podcast. I'm Anne Ravanona, your host and funding friend, and I'm so glad you're here. InvestHer Podcast exists for one reason: to share the real, unfiltered stories of funded women founders, investors, and ecosystem changemakers from around the world, and to give them the visibility and airtime they deserve. Because here's what we know: women are building extraordinary businesses. And yet their stories are still too often missing from the conversation.

We're here to change that.

Every episode, I sit down with someone who's in the trenches of building, funding, or backing women-founded ventures. And we talk about the real stuff, the pivots, the rejections, the fundraising lessons nobody tells you about, and the wins, because there are plenty of those too.

Now, I can't wait for you to hear this.

Let's dive in. Most people people still talk about investing in women as a nice-to-have or a side play in the name of diversity, Pierre Rollin sees it for what it really is: a massive market disconnect and one of the biggest arbitrage opportunities of our time. After 4 decades in global real estate building foundations and backing underserved talent, Pierre founded Ankh Impact Ventures to do something radical in its simplicity: deploy permanent patient capital into first-time women founders and fund managers who are solving our most urgent problems, from climate resilience and smart cities to conscious consumer products, health, and the future of work. In this conversation, we dive into his philanthrocapitalist thesis, the 3 pillars he looks for in every deal, and real stories from portfolio companies like Kind Designs and Breakthrough that show exactly why betting on women isn't charity. It's smart, future-proof investing. Let's step into Pierre's world and see how one investor is quietly helping to rewrite the rules of adventure capital, one woman-led company at a time. Enjoy.

How are you, Pierre? Thank you so much for taking your time to be with us today.

Only for you during my holiday offline period. I am hot. I'm in the south of Spain, and I'm sure everyone else is feeling the enormous climate change issues.

Absolutely. And that's why we need more people like you investing in solutions to help that.

So that's really good.

Yes, yes, absolutely. Cool.

So maybe to get us started, could you tell our listeners one fun fact about you, Pierre, to warm us all up?

Well, I was an actor and a singer And also a child model from the age of 4 till about the age of 10, and was very involved with Radio-Québec Canada, also English Canadian and international commercials. and singing and also some acting. And that's something that's long gone, many, many, many decades ago. But it was certainly fun. My late mother, God bless her, always said that the clothes to dress me for all these events was more than the royalties and the fees that you would share in From the, the, you know, from the agents that you worked with. So it wasn't a good business proposition at that time in the 1960s and '70s. But now, of course, the industry has changed enormously and has the business model. Of course, there was no social media back then, so that, that monetization wasn't there. So that's, that's probably as fun as I can think of at this time.

I love it. That's a really, really fun fact. I had no idea and I love it. So thank you for—

Of course.

And that probably explains part of your, I wanna say, stage presence, your ease of speaking and communicating with people and getting through. So that's great. I think I'm just making that assumption. So let's kind of dive in a little bit more into your background and why you started AIV. Now, just let's give people a heads up. I want people to understand, our listeners to understand, How you made the shift from 40-plus years in real estate into impact investing, because they're very different worlds. Can you tell us a little bit about that shift and why you made that shift?

Well, that answer has various parts to it. I think the biggest and most influential and impressionable part of it is my late mother, who was a Holocaust survivor. Hungarian Holocaust survivor, emigrated to Canada after the war, and bless her, she had a C-suite career for over 25 years as a corporate executive in Canadian business. And quite frankly, I thought every mother on my street was an executive, you know, Getting dressed up in her pantsuit and her briefcase and heading to the office at 7:30 in the morning and coming back at 5:30 or 6 with the groceries, helping cooking, helping with homework. I just thought the whole you know that my universe thought I thought that was normal. But later in life, I realized that she was one of the few women in the '60s and '70s in Toronto who had the ability to be both a super mom and a corporate executive. So having that as a role model, as your mom, I think inspired me very young and obviously is very impressionable to a young child. And I think stayed with me. So I think that's the most important and most influential part of the change. I think another important step along that roadmap pathway. In the 2000s, with some serious real estate success, I set up 2 foundations, a British charity and an American 501 private foundation. And those 2 entities which I funded focused on gifted underprivileged children in art education and music. And out of the UK, we worked with a lot of UK and international organizations which we gave grants to that promoted underprivileged gifted children. And in the US also, and internationally out of the US, I think in total we gave about 80 grants over, over the active years from 2003 till about 2015. And then I closed the 2 foundations to open UNK Impact Ventures. Those, those 2 foundations gave me the opportunity to meet some incredible women in the not-for-profit space, in education departments of museums, art institutes, NGOs, you know, in the UK government, Kwangos. And they allowed me to see the terrific work women are doing in the not-for-profit area. Unfortunately, in my opinion, some of the philanthropic charity world is a bit broken and that model has to tweak.

Yeah.

And I noticed that we gave out about 80 grants. And in that period, I met, oh, dozens of women who are really making the world a better place through the not-for-profit space, empowering gifted underprivileged kids. So that was the first modern sort of period of my life. where I had an opportunity to see mission and impact.

Mm-hmm.

And the good, bad, and the ugly from those, which we read about every day. And then I think through some life changes and personal, you know, experiences in my life, I effectively had to reinvent myself after the global financial crisis and had to rebuild as an entrepreneur. And one of the opportunities that came across me was I was working on a Four Seasons branded residence project in Los Angeles. I was brought in by the Harvard Endowment, Harvard Management Company in 2013, and spending time in Los Angeles assisting them with the development and sale of those residences. I got to several things. I got to meet the innovation departments of University of Southern California, Caltech.

Mm-hmm.

and UCLA. And that was the first exposure I got to innovation and entrepreneurship at the university level. And it really— I really got the bug. And whilst I was doing the real estate, I was sort of side hustling, going to events, pitch competitions.

Yeah.

And meeting the innovation and entrepreneurship departments and the women who had their own clubs at these universities— AI, entrepreneurship, startup competitions. And I think that was the first time where I was exposed to young women, undergraduate, graduate, PhD, and recent alumni doing entrepreneurship. We all know the statistics. Having said that, University of Southern California Engineering Department, I think, reached parity at the engineering school between men and women in about 2019.

Wow.

So in 2013, there were still many more men than women at some of the US leading engineering schools. Those numbers have balanced out in the last 10 years. Through that exposure, I started consulting women leadership in private companies. I wouldn't call them startups because they were a little bit more advanced than a startup at that time.

Mm-hmm.

And the incubators and accelerators in LA started referring me to women who need business development support, who are in leadership. And I started doing that. I mean, it was not a hobby. It was a commercial way to earn a living. And that experience from 2013, '14, '15 to 2020 eventually led to me deciding as an early mover of gender lens investing, which is women co-founded or led businesses with VC backing, to dedicate a permanent personal balance sheet capital pool to backing first-time women co-founded or led startups and first-time women co-founded fund managers in the VC area to start.

Mm-hmm.

with my own small micro balance sheet, with mission and impact and purpose connected to the business. But these businesses weren't sacrificing profit.

Yeah.

To be green. No, these businesses were profit first, which is also mission and impact driven.

Yeah, yeah.

So there's no discount for, for, uh, or loss for, for green and, and, and mission and impact.

And I'm so glad you say that, Pierre. That is so important for, for our listeners and for people to hear because, you know, so often people who don't know a lot about the gender lens space, they kind of think, oh, It's the woman thing. It's good. It's a bit of DEI, a bit of image building. Oh, here we'll see. But it's like, no, you're clearly saying this is a business opportunity and you spotted it early. It's interesting, we both did around 2013. That's when I set up Global Invest Her and I said I want to focus on the women too. So we had the light, the lightning bolt at the same time in different parts of the year, of the country and the world, I should say. Tell us more, um, about Ank Impact Ventures and why—

what the name means.

I know that your 2 previous nonprofits or philanthropy organizations also had that name, so you have meaning in everything that you say and do. So what, what does that meaning mean for you, Ank? Please share that with us. And then I want you to tell us more, a little about your philosophy of being the philanthrocapitalist. What does that mean to you?

I'd like to first go back when you said earlier, this is an opportunity. I'd like to stress it's beyond an opportunity. It's arbitrage. Yes, it is. And it's a disconnect.

Yes.

There is no financial logic why a woman co-founded or led or solo woman, more particularly with this data, should have only, you know, 2 or 3% of venture capital allocated to them?

Yep.

And why should there be a serious discount on her or their businesses because they're solo women or women co-founded startups, opposed to the on balance equal men equal CVs. It just doesn't make economic sense. So I would extend that to a disc— you know, a market disconnect and an arbitrage. Yeah, where it's undervalued.

Yes.

Um, so I wanted to just close that point with you.

Thank you for saying that. You're so right. And thank you for clarifying that, because not enough investors out there Understand that still, which blows my mind.

Well, very few because of the statistics.

Yeah.

So, so the name. So I am a big fan of ancient Egypt. I've visited Egypt, I've traveled extensively in Egypt, and I've always been transformed and immensely impressed with the grandeur, the sophistication, the symbolism, the mystery of what we still don't understand in modern technology and modern academia. With what and who these people were to build some of the artifacts and monuments that were built in gigantic form of almost perfect precision and mathematical symbolism. So the reason I chose the name Ankh, as you know, the Ankh is an ancient Egyptian symbol.

Mm-hmm.

It is purported to be one of the 20 oldest recorded symbols in the world. No one knows where it originally came from, who exactly invented it or coined it. But— and we don't know exactly for sure what it means. But through modern— through recording and modern analysis, And translations and interpretations and some decoding. You know, it is believed to be a very important symbol linked to the pharaohs, relating to everlasting life, a key.

Mm-hmm.

To transformation, manifestation, harmony between masculinity and femininity, which the ancient Egyptians were very adamant about. I'm sure you've seen the large, gigantic statues of Egyptian pharaohs and the queens arm in arm.

Yep.

Showing harmony. equality and yin-yang support for each other. It is linked to the goddess Isis. We think it's linked to Osiris, the star Osiris. That's a whole different discussion, much, much more analytical. But most importantly, the harmony between masculinity and femininity and the key to opening up opportunity and manifestation, I think, are the ones that are most relevant to the reason I named the initiative Ankh Impact Ventures. So the Ankh representing the harmony and the key and good fortune, impact representing purposefulness and intentionless, and ventures representing Technology, innovation, new things, and technology. So when you put it together, it's quite a powerful combination of different words and different meaning. So that's, I think, the short— I love it. That's the short abbreviation.

The short abbreviation.

And you know what?

I love When you look back on this video, you're gonna see what I'm going to say now. Your face just lit up when you started to speak about the symbolism and Egypt and what this means to you. It just— you just beamed, and it just flows out of you. So just— you watch it, watch it when you see this again. And that's wonderful because, you know, we can feel the passion. I can feel it coming through to me here on the screen, and I know our listeners will feel it in your voice. as well. So let's come back then. And I love it. I love the symbolism, the care with which you chose very carefully and precisely those words and your path and your vision. So tell us a little bit more, as I was saying, about what you mean by philanthrocapitalist, and then lead us nicely into your investment thesis and why you chose that, because there are so many angles we can take in impact. But you're quite specific about the areas that you like to support.

So historically and traditionally over time, mission, purpose, and impact have all been in the box, the silo of charity and philanthropy.

Yep.

You're a person with a big heart and you're helping.

Yeah.

Pro bono, not for commercial. Earnings. And historically, that's how religion and society and communities showed dedication by giving their time with empathy for purpose. And that was seen as he or she is a good charitable person.

Yeah.

Whether that's any of those areas I just mentioned. As we transform in society, a much more complicated, much more fast-moving, and I would also say a much more knowledgeable society, even before AI developed, the new generations are much more aware of all the subjects. And technology and social media amplified that. So it's very hard to hide, and it's very hard for societies to suppress and hide from the next generation what's going out there in the world. It's very difficult. And The more you suppress, the more trouble you'll get into, especially with the next generation being so knowledgeable and having so many more tools at their fingertips than I did when I was 10 or 15 or 20. I had to go to libraries. Libraries were a big thing. I had my library card and I went to research and I would go on microfiche. And I really, I was almost an investigative journalist of some informal type to get things where there still would be a lot of secrets. Secrets are much harder today to hide the fingerprint.

Yeah.

And the signature of those secrets. It's very difficult to have something self-sustaining that nobody knows about. Certainly much harder than in the past. So as part of that background, in order to scale and in order to have intentionality and purpose and mission to the future consumers of the world, you have to have both. You have to have the innovation, science, and technology, and you have to have mission, purpose, empathy, and intentionality for people to really think you have an authentic product or service or offering. You can't pull the wool over their eyes, so you need to start at the very beginning of the journey with both mission, impact, purpose, make the world a better place, democratization, transparency, full disclosure.

Mm-hmm.

And also innovation, entrepreneurship, grit, risk-taking, sacrifice, Uh, try and try again if you fail. You have to include both of those camps. And that's why I guess there's a philanthroventure approach to this.

Mm-hmm.

There really should be no philanthro. The other bits should be part of it. But in order to explain to, to readers and listeners, that's how you have to lay it out to them so they better understand the 2 different parts to this. Right. And UNK Impact Ventures is one of the early movers of the gender lens thesis.

Mm-hmm.

And one of the early movers since probably 10 years in identifying a business model where we have 3 pillars. The first and most important is the woman agent of change. These are women who usually have gone through adversity in life themselves or their most inner surroundings, family, friends, that, that could be That could be psychological, that could be environmental. There are many, many ways in which you face adversity.

Mm-hmm.

And that experience then gets channeled into pillar 2, which is identifying a societal issue that needs to change and change rapidly.

Mm-hmm.

Or else we will get into big problems.

Mm.

And we'll be the last generation to have the chance to change some of these things.

Mm-hmm.

And then the third is the science and technology to measure and scale. And when you mix those 3 together, you get a very powerful recipe for potential success. Very intentional, very empathetic, extremely personal.

Yeah.

With a mission. And some of the companies which we can mention today, I can take you quite deep into the backstory of why they fit very nicely into my investment thesis.

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Before we do dive into 2 of the companies that you have invested in, you— for those listeners who don't know you yet, can you just call out— you've mentioned the 3 pillars— can you call out the, the kind of 6 SDG areas that are part of your investment thesis?

Um, it's 17 UN Sustainable Development Goals.

Yeah, no, but the ones, the 6 that you invest in, those ones.

Okay, so those are investment sectors.

Yeah.

So, uh, so we started back in 2020 with, um, you know, I would call it conscious consumer. Those are all the things around the consumer sector, uh, that are, you know, Have conscious issues about that.

Yeah, right.

That could be supply chain policing or issues, ethical, moral issues or regulatory issues, depending on which jurisdiction around the world. That could be the tech of the consumer side, not the brand. or what's around it, but the technology of it or the biology of it. That could also be included. And that could be the fashion design innovation.

Mm-hmm.

Material, smart material. Of it. It can take many forms. So that's the consumer sort of sector.

Mm-hmm.

Then we— then our second area was smart cities and climate tech.

Mm-hmm.

Then we did— and smart cities and climate tech also The cities are growing. You know, I recently visited Tokyo with, I'm not sure, somewhere between 25 and 34 million people. It depends how many parts of it you want to include. These are massive cities with massive city economies.

Mm-hmm.

New York with, I don't know, somewhere between 11 and 15 million, depending on what part of it. Mexico City, I visited recently.

Yes.

So these huge cities with tens of millions in population are entities amongst themselves, not only the massive economic power, but all the things that go right or wrong in a city, from the cultural, And the connectivity to the pollution and the rising sea tides and the bad work-life experience that we all challenge every day of our lives. So that's the second area. So, and then I had inclusive digital economy.

Mm-hmm.

Which can, which can incorporate a lot of things relating to ecommerce, democratization of businesses, digitalization, monetary technologies and crypto and new forms of blockchain. Then Then we did art and culture tech.

Mm-hmm.

And art and culture tech, uh, really resonates with all the innovation technology around art and culture. So it's not actually investing in a painter or a Broadway show, but it's investing in all the technology around an artist and it's art technology and all the technology around a Broadway show or a West End theater show in the UK. But art and culture is a hugely important area. Then we have quantum technologies.

Mm-hmm.

Which is probably the most challenging one to identify women. Yeah, uh, deep tech, quantum, AI, that whole area. I've had some challenges in identifying first-time women founders in, in those areas. Oh gosh, I'm not sure, did I miss one?

Uh, uh, healthcare and life sciences.

Healthcare and life sciences, thank you very much. Um, well, obviously Healthcare and life science is a massive part of our economy and becoming more and more important. I heard a statistic that sort of from the beginning of recorded time, millions of years ago in caves and forests till the 17th century, humans lived for around 30 years. And from the 17th century, I think until the 19th century, with all that innovation and technology, it got maybe 5 more years to 35.

Hmm.

And then from the last 100 years with modern technology, And innovation, we've moved that now, I think, to 80 or 85, depending if you're a man or woman and which part of the world you live. So it's not the organic food you've been eating 2 million years ago and the grass and the non-pollution of carbon dioxide that killed you. It's the environment. That killed you. And with modern technology, we've moved that to 80, 85. And all the money that's being spent, and now with AI and quantum, that there are, you know, megatrends prediction people that say we will soon be at 120 lifespan. Our children, you know, will live to 120 with—

I know.

The modern technology of AI and quantum. And from there, you know, who knows, maybe we become a mixture of technology and biology as nanotech enters the human. And we are, we are built with sensors and with micromanagement technology. that extend humanity. So healthcare and life science are hugely important in extending life and quality of life. And I obviously follow that very closely in different fields— wellness, work-life balance, cancer research and early detection. And food, foods that are healthier to eat. So I've done it in different ways. Organic supply chain. Is that— I think that's all 6, isn't it?

That's all 6. We've covered all 6. So which brings us beautifully then. I asked you to think about a couple of your investments that we could dive deeper into. So there were 2 that you mentioned, Kind Designs in Miami with Anya Freeman and Breakthrough in Venice, California, so with Melissa Painter. So would you like to kind of walk us through a little bit each of those portfolio, um, companies? So Kind Designs, what made you back Anya and the Living Seawalls? Tell us a bit about it for our listeners and people who don't know. A little bit, keep it short because we want to make sure we cover other things too.

So, so I was at a Milken international conference in Abu Dhabi in November of 2022. And I had a breakfast meeting with one of England's leading women climate tech fund managers.

Mm-hmm.

And she was pitching me why I should invest in her fund. And I think she was on her second or third fund. And I said to her, well, Your track record is amazing. Your thesis is transformational. But I focus on first-time fund managers, not second or third. So you're a little bit advanced for me currently, maybe in the future. And then at the end of the breakfast, just before we leave, she said, oh, I forgot to mention to you, when are you next in Miami? And I said, well, I could be in Miami soon because I stay with my sister. in South Beach from time to time, and I could be there maybe January or February. She says, you've got to meet a woman called Anya Freeman. She is a former litigator, has a law consulting company, and has an idea about transforming the 100-year-old American seawall, which just— hasn't changed really. It's as toxic and non-biodiverse as it was 100 years ago and since 1904 or something. So I visited my sister in January or February of '22, and I met Anya, who was born in Ukraine, grew up in Israel, and in her teens moved to Maine, As her father joined the US, I think, space program or some part of the defense program. And she then moved to Miami, studied law, worked for the district attorney, and was getting calls from her roommates about the water flooding on their property and having to move the car because the water kept on going up. Well, Miami is, I think, one of the world's 52 or so cities that one day will be flooded by 2060 to 2100, many feet underwater. And so she started investigating that. And I met her and I was sold day 2 of our meeting. And I put the first money in her company. In '23, I think January or February or March, she appointed me an advisor primarily for business development, not technology. She now has 10 staff. She's raised $22 million.

Wow.

With my help.

Yeah.

And she's got $10 million in revenues and a $175 million pipeline. And on her second, I think, Navy pilot— Navy Department, US Navy pilot.

Amazing.

And she has 4 robots, soon to have 6 robots if she doesn't already, in the Miami facility. It's like a car, mini car manufacturing plant with 3 or 4 different lines of real time where she can print 3D-printed seawalls, In 24 hours, and with a couple of days can drop them in front of a hotel, a marina, somebody's home.

Amazing.

Somewhere else. So, so Kind Designs is the first and leading company in the world to do 3D-printed seawalls with coral reefs to support biodiversity.

Biodiversity.

And And has the ability to put sensors also on there. But sensors have to be tracked and updated. So that's a bit of a challenge with technology. It'll come. It's just a matter of time. She'll, she'll re-add the sensors and artwork and putting artwork, because as the boats and yachts come into the hotels and marinas and homes, it's blank. It's a blank sheet.

Yeah.

So now she's also doing the arts and culture part, promoting Miami artists and bringing them on board. She's also changed the legislation both in Miami and in Fort Lauderdale, where her seawalls that are nontoxic and biodiverse permitting timeframe is much shorter and the cost is subsidized by the municipality. So she's building a legislative framework locally and potentially federally. And so, you know, what's not good about that story? And she's a solo first-time founder. And it was all about the mission and her personal experience of the flooding for years that caused her to leave her legal practice and start this 3 years ago.

Wow.

By the way, 3 years ago, not 10 years ago. 3 years ago and could be the first unicorn female solo-founded company in Miami in the not-too-distant future if, uh, things continue to go the way they certainly look like they're going.

Amazing. She sounds incredible, Anya. Sounds like I should have her on as a guest as well, by the way. So yeah, we need to make that happen.

Good, good luck in getting the time. She's, uh, she's, she's a busybody.

We got you, Pierre. You're a busybody too.

He's a busybody. Yeah.

So tell us about Breakthrough then and Melissa Painter.

So Melissa Painter comes from the discipline of film and film production and producing and directing. And when COVID hit, she realized that more people Are sitting on their sofas, kitchen chairs, doing probably more cooking, probably more drinking, and probably less sports, I would imagine, on all fronts. And she came up with the brilliant idea of how do you help during lockdown people, especially in large organizations? To have a break. So she developed a— 2 things. She developed a desktop and a projector. And now we've been a public space platform to assist employees of companies who, by the way, spend 7 hours a day sitting and doing Digital tech.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, get up for what is called a microbreak.

Mm-hmm.

It's a 2-minute break, which doesn't take too much time of your day. You do it several times a day.

Mm-hmm.

You're facing an avatar.

Mm-hmm.

You have landscape options, color options, music options. Many options. And one of the places it sits is on Microsoft Teams.

Cool.

And apparently 11,000 Microsoft employees use Breakthrough Microbreaks and 45,000 organizations. So I was an early investor. I don't think I was the first there, but I was one of the first. And she appointed me an advisor for business development. And Melissa now has a team of, I think, also around 10, if I'm correct, and has dozens of Fortune 500 companies either in pilot programs or in full commercial programs using the microbreaks, which help with everything.

Less accidents.

More concentration, more bursts of energy, mental wellness. There are all kinds of studies with leaders in those disciplines that have written about Breakthrough and the benefits, both physical and mental and practical, driving and walking and working. So that's another one. also on projector.

Mhm.

And now in public spaces.

That's so great. I mean, yeah, because we do need to move more. And, and it has been said that sitting is the new smoking, you know. It's just so bad for our health. We need to take those micro breaks for all the benefits that you just shared. Um, it's absolutely vital. So I want to kind of help our listeners and viewers Learn more about how you analyze a potential investment. So what do you look for a founder in the very first meeting, Pierre? The first time you meet her, what is it that you're looking for?

Unfortunately, with COVID in 2020 and '21 and parts of '22, those were more video calls than they were in-person meetings. So a little bit much more challenging in in, in first impressions.

Yeah.

Than face to face for 1 or 2 hours. Putting that aside, as a first-time founder backer and first-time fund manager backer coming in at the earliest stage of their businesses, You have to see character.

Hmm.

The IP and the business model will change and pivot. So you have to put more emphasis on the individuals or the individual and the mission, the journey, the grit, the sacrifices they're willing to put in, their personal experiences. And does that individual have what it takes through this difficult journey to survive and get through what they call the valley of death? You know, the pre-seed, seed, late stage going into what they refer to as Series A, that valley of death where 80%, 90% of all startups, maybe more, die for one reason or another. But whatever the reason is, they die and they— the company doesn't make it. So you wanna be in that 10, 5, 10, 15, 20%, um, especially with the statistics we spoke about earlier for solo-founded businesses.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, if I went to Anya or Melissa back in 20-whatever it was, 21, 22, or 23, and said, Do you know women only get— do you know that white women, you know, only get 2, 2.5% of funding as a sole founder like you, Anya and Melissa? And your chances of failure are, according to data and statistics, 90-plus percent. You're going to die. The business is going to die within the next 2, 3, 4 years. They don't want to hear that.

No.

They wanna hear about all the things that could go right for them to be a very successful business and potentially, as they say, unicorn. You know, that's what they wanna hear. All the things that'll go right, not all the things that go wrong and all that. So don't bother to give them all that stuff. And if I see a potential roadmap and pathway for a first-time founder with those characteristics and personal experiences, that they can channel that mission and personal experience into their businesses, then a little kind of, you know, little radar goes and goes bing. And I felt it. I said the day I met Melissa Painter, I told her I'm investing even before she did my investment questionnaire.

Mm-hmm.

We still did all that. So did Anya. But I said I'm investing. Same with Anya. Second day, I think I told Anya I'm investing. And I'll be her first investor. So I think especially with solo women, first-time founders and fund managers too, it doesn't take you a month to figure it out. It takes you the first meeting or second to see if they have what it takes to deal with all those challenges.

Hmm.

Uh, so I think that's the, the thing I wanted to come across to you with, to say it's less about the business and the business plan and the MVP and the IP you're trying to prosecute, and it's more about the individual or individuals at that, at that first-time founder. Yeah, very early stage, not early stage.

Very, very— do you always do follow-on rounds with, with, with all of your investments, Pierre, or does it depend?

So as a micro investor without aggregated capital, generally I don't. Most of the time I'll do pre-seed, friends and family, angel, and then sometimes I'll do another small ticket in the second round. But that's it. Generally it's 2 rounds. And that's sort of where we Cap out. So we've, we've rare— we've never really invested more than £100,000, euros, dollars in any one entity the last 6 years. I don't think we have. That's sort of where, as a, as a, as a, you know, private markets, high-risk venture capital bucket, that's sort of how I—

That's my sweet spot.

That's my sweet spot. I don't go over 100 in any company.

Yeah.

And we start as little as 10 to get them going.

Yeah.

You know, to give them their first ticket.

So you stay with them, like obviously you invest that first round and then you just wait until you get an exit in X amount of time and you continue on as an advisor.

I don't wait. I have 85 women on my advisory board who work, you know, average 12 hours a year supporting. I have a dozen consultants. I work with 6 universities and their alumni groups. I'm doing— I'm not waiting. I'm not spraying and praying.

Yeah, yeah.

intimately involved in every one of my funds and companies to the point where some of them wouldn't know what to do at that early stage without me. So I would— I wouldn't say I'm waiting. I, you know, we have a very advanced platform digitally and network-wise at many layers that are hugely supportive to the portfolio companies. Yeah.

So, so how long would you stay invested in usually based on the first 43.

I, I stay— I, I hope to stay till they exit.

Yeah, perfect.

We have not had any exits yet. Um, sort of the, the, you know, the herd is sort of moving to Series A now. Pre-seed, seed, seed extension, pre-A, and now the early 2021, '22, '23 companies with COVID challenges. They're the herd. The cohorts are now slowly doing— next year there'll be a lot of A's and a couple of B's. So we're, we're moving out of that early stage and you'll probably see a few announcements during '27 and '28 of Series A and Series B's raised by these companies. And then people start hearing about them. Nobody knows hardly anything about my portfolio, my 40, 50 companies or funds because They haven't gotten to a point yet where, you know, Wall Street or the international financial community cares because the size is too small.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

As they move now to Series A, so next year Anya is raising a $150 million Series A off tens of millions in revenue, hopefully. I think the world will know.

Sit up and take notice.

Yeah. People take notice because that's the first step to unicorn. You know, once you close that $150 million, you're— nothing is guaranteed. But, you know, you're now a validated institutional entity with economies of scale, tens of millions of revenue, and local, regional, and federal legislative rules changing. that you're part of. And, uh, and of course, you know, when you get government contracts, whether they're military or civilian, uh, it's still a significant game changer. So these companies now, I would say my pre-seeds, uh, and in my funds, they're also in the same situation. The, the bulk are moving to now A and B in '27 and '28. Some will do A's this year, but a lot of them are doing A's and B's, um, next year. So you'll— the portfolio moves to a different place than when I started in 2021, '22. Now, now we have more mature companies with a dozen or 2 dozen staff and revenues growing at 10x a year, in some cases 20x a year, which is huge from a very small—

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

To, to condition that from a very small base. I don't know if it'll stay at 10 or 20 times a year when they have hundreds of millions of revenue. I'm not sure about that.

Yeah.

But certainly from zero to tens of millions in the early stage, that is where some of them are going. But more importantly than all that, look what Melissa Painter's doing, helping employees of large corporations like Microsoft Giving them the opportunity to have these micro breaks, helping them with their daily routine, helping them with work-life balance, helping them with mental wellness. It's as important, the impact and the mission, as the money.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

It's together, they're equal.

Yeah.

It's not one or the other. Or the other. The mission part is holding back the money. This is a misconception in finance that the mission makes it less successful, or the DEI, as they call it in the US, makes it less successful because it's not the right hire and whatnot.

Hmm.

In my companies, that's not the case. They're hired because— they're invested in because they're the smartest and brightest and most courageous women I could find on the planet.

And if you think about all of your portfolio companies so far and the women founders you've met over the years, What are your key tips to women founders in particular when it comes to access to capital and looking for funding? If you had to kind of give them the golden, the Pierre playbook, what would it be like? Say, these are the things you need to do, these are the things you need to don't, uh, not do.

First of all, the most important thing is a work-life balance. You know, you need to be healthy mentally as well as physically, and you're not going to be able to Do those 18-hour days if you don't have some work-life balance. And you need to institute a disciplined approach and see wellness as medicine, whether it's swimming or aerobics or Pilates or walks or family time or religious time or community time. You need to add those elements into it from the very beginning. If you don't, it's a recipe for disaster. So the first and most important is work-life balance, whatever those are. Different people have different availability, and some of them is just walking in a public park for 2 hours or an hour and a half each day while you, you know, while you listen to podcasts and music. And that's me. Yeah. So that's number one. Yeah, the most important in my opinion. And then obviously, in terms of success, there are 5 or 6 things that they should be doing. Definitely, they should look for non-dilutive grants. They should try and get into pitch competitions. It's amazing who sits in the audiences, by the way. Everybody kind of pushes and laughs a little bit about these little pitch competitions, but you can't imagine the billionaires and institutions and foundations who have scouts sitting in. It's— I bring in, in my country, Canada, where, you know, we have hockey scouts.

Mm-hmm.

You can't imagine in which small community the most important teams have hockey scouts. Looking for that 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10-year-old player. So you need to go to the pitch competitions. They're non-dilutive. You have an incredible audience and get circulation and try and come first, second, or third in these and get on the circuit of the pitch competitions, especially at pre-seed and seed. Non-dilutive grant. Amazing who you meet there besides the $10,000, $25,000, $2,000, $1,000 grants. It's the people you meet. So in circulation. So I encourage them all to do as much as they can from what they can afford to get in front of pitch competitions. The second is I'm a big proponent of incubators and accelerators. If you can get into an accelerator, an incubator program.

Yeah.

That has a good reputation. and has global reach, do it. Oh, but the dilutive funding of 5%, 10%, 15%. I said, as opposed to you're going bankrupt, you mean you're worried about this 5%, 10%, 15% when there's a 90% chance you're not going to make it? Come on, who are you kidding?

You—

I encourage you to be part of a cohort of one of the Antlers or Techstars or Morgan Stanley Inclusive Ventures or Y Combinator, or there's dozens of them. I just mentioned a few high profile. Excellent ones, 500. Join the incubators and accelerators and be part of a community. And you're not giving away equity, you're de-risking.

Yeah.

Okay, it's an insurance policy.

Yeah.

Right. The alternative in many cases is bankruptcy, you know, within 3 years. Uh, then I would also encourage them to try and get some unpaid pilots. Get something sticky with a big company that'll do a, you know, a pilot project, even if it's cost plus or nothing, because it gets you closer to the corporates and the larger enterprise customers.

Yeah.

And then I always encourage them to get linked up to celebrities.

Yeah.

And that's a big word, the celebrity. That could be many things. That could be a high-profile wealthy individual. That could be a former person from the arts or the sports or politics, or get, get close to a very good reputational person of high billboard status and try and get them involved in your business and support it in some way or form to invest in it and support your business or the vehicles that they work around. There's a lot of other vehicles these higher-profile individuals work around and get close to those, you know. And then I also suggest them to knock on the doors of the, uh, angel networks of the alum— whatever schools you went to, try and reach out to their alumni networks and angel funds that are linked there. The city that you're from, look at the angel networks in your city. Um, and, uh, Connect to a university and connect to a foundation because foundations, especially ones interested in the city you're in, give grants and will promote you and introduce you to people. And the university ecosystems are incredible. No, no matter how small your university was, if you went to university, they have angel networks, they have alumni networks, they're associated to different groups. Get close to that ecosystem and do all of the above. Not many of you— you'll get a lot of rejection, but, you know, go wide, you know. And it's also the people you meet in those events.

Yeah.

Even if you don't succeed, try again and continue to get circulated to the foundations, the research institutes, The university alumni networks, the city. Usually the cities have their own innovation and entrepreneurship economic board, which you can also get grants and desks and support in certain cases in time. So, so I try to impress upon— oh, I didn't think of that. Well, you know, do it. You know, so You have to try and explore all those, you know, because many of them won't stick, especially at that pre-seed and seed level. You're too early, you're too small, um, uh, and, uh, you're, you're not of interest, you know, at that stage.

So as we're coming to kind of wrapping up our, our time today, what would you say is Your vision for the future of AIV. Where do you see ONC Impact Ventures going in the next 5 years? Let's just say, what are your thoughts, plans?

Well, I guess the most important is some of these portfolio companies will exit.

Yeah.

And they're going to make big noise in their small community or their industry or even on a national or international scale in certain cases. And they will be my ambassadors, I hope.

Mm-hmm.

And they will play a more important role as we scale up, that we now have first-time founders and, uh, and first-time fund managers who have done their first fund and closed it, or done their first startup and exited, um, and now are ambassadors to us. And they will hopefully Form a new community group within Angkempak Ventures of exited founders who will provide mentorship and coaching, I hope, and capital for us to do more things with and support them also with their new initiatives. So I guess it's like crawling and then learning how to walk and then walking and then hopefully running. And then once you can start to run, whole new things come, you know, open up to you when you get through that phase.

Mm-hmm.

So the most important is to support the founders and assist them to that exit and then work with them together as they do their next stage in their life and help our next generation. of founders and fund managers. And then obviously with those successful exits, there's more opportunity for everything to scale.

Yeah.

So I would say, uh, once those exits happen, we'll have— we'll be— we will afford to make a little bit larger tickets.

Yeah.

And we'll afford to do things we couldn't afford to do before, whether that's with research institutes, Foundations, universities. I just signed a new university partnership with HEC, the French business school. I signed an MOU in May.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm doing an awful lot with them, you know? So if I had more success and more resources, I could do even more with them. So it's, it's, you know, You know, you have— you can't cut corners. You have to go through the steps. You have to wait. You know, you have to— evolutionary process. It's not fast money. It takes time. From the time you invest in a first-time founder to exit can be 10 years.

Hmm.

You know, so it's patience. So it's not a— it's not fast money. It's intentional money. It's hopefully ethical and moral, and it's hard work, and that always takes a little longer when it's correct. So 5 years may be too short. I think maybe if you said to me, where do you see things in 10 years?

Mm-hmm.

I'd say that's really when it's a whole different state. But 5 years, we're still plugging away at getting to Series A, B, C, D. And working with more universities. We now, I think, have 7. We work with Imperial College, University of East London, Cambridge in the UK, Princeton, Stanford, California State, Berkeley. And we're talking to other university clubs and women communities and business schools and engineering schools about empowering women entrepreneurs. And so we will do more to foster entrepreneurship for women at the university and recent alumni. So that— those are areas when there's the resources that we'll really probably do more with. And I'm sure as some of these founders exit and they decide to give back, They probably— some of them will focus on their university where their professors played a huge role in their life, uh, and, um, we'll do projects with those universities and research institutes that help them with their company too. So I would assume I'll end up doing more with universities, research institutes, and foundations who have been involved in our portfolio companies, and eventually governments, I guess, you know.

Mm-hmm.

Um, there, I think in the UK they just had— is it the Rose Paper? Is that what it's called?

Oh, that's a few years old, so it's gone, moved on now. But they're definitely a— I want to say, for me, one of the best practice countries alongside Canada, actually, when it comes to investing in women from a public-private perspective. So the UK government is doing a lot actually to fund more there. They have over a £630 million fund That they are investing in funds of funds that invest in early-stage women entrepreneurs and then other projects. So yeah, they're doing some great work there. So it's one to keep an eye on for sure.

So replicating that in different countries, I'm sure there'll be more white papers and reports to encourage women entrepreneurship and innovation with funding, non-dilutive or dilutive.

Yeah.

Also, the banks are going to be playing a bigger role, I think.

Yeah.

I think as they see innovation banking, entrepreneurship banking, women banking, all those areas grow. By the way, we haven't talked about, you know, the elephant in the room. You know, the elephant in the room is $100 to $200 trillion is being transferred in the great wealth transfer.

Yeah.

$1 trillion in art. They say— banks say 60%, 70% of all the wealth within 20, 30 years will be in the hands of women.

Yeah.

60%, 65%, maybe more. That's a huge change from the last 100 years. And with that comes a different way of investing.

Yeah.

So I would say that we're positioned very well at UNK Impact Ventures with our approach and our investment thesis to attract capital from those women and heirs who usually have a more mission and impact-focused approach with benefits to society than just a pure financial approach or a with more ethical and moral issues also, and diversity. I mean, when you look at women startups or women co-founded, they hire much more diverse. And it's not DEI because—

No.

We're hiring a Latina or a Black person or an ethnic minority person that's not white. No, they hire the best that happens to be from that particular socioeconomic or cultural background or race because they look like they fit the best resume and character. So it's not DEI. It's the women are hiring a diverse workforce because it is better for the business.

Yeah.

With better talent, which results probably— not probably, for surely—

Definitely.

In more success.

Yeah.

And, um, and we didn't really talk about that, but, you know, that is an important distinguishing factor, that women are more mission-focused, higher achievers, are more conservative, uh, more responsible with the money, um, uh, and, uh, more intentional. You know, these things all They all are. When that $100 to $200 trillion gets inherited in the great wealth transfer, those things will end up, you know, it'll be a tsunami, actually, what's going to happen in 10 or 20 years. I don't think people realize what's actually going to— how fast things will change with the control of capital in the hands of women, where usually their brothers or fathers or uncles or a male private banker or money manager handled all that. in the past with very little influence by the woman. Yeah, that is changing. So that's something that we never really talked about today, but that is a— that's coming in 5 years.

Yeah, yeah.

Maybe I'm glad, I'm glad you brought that up because it's not— not people outside of the gender lens investing space don't realize that. And I like the way you called it a tsunami because it really is. It's going to be a huge tsunami. So Pierre, how can people reach out to you? What's the best way for people to contact you if they want to?

Well, I mean, Everything is on our website. We're full disclosure, we're transparent. All our advisory board and our consultants, they're all on there. You could call any of them. I have an email that's there and they can reach me on my website. I try to talk to everybody through LinkedIn, through Instagram, through inbounds on emails. I try. I can't get everybody all the time, but I try to be as supportive as I can. And they should just reach me. It depends what they want.

Yeah.

I can't provide all the solutions, but I try to be as helpful as I can and point them in the right direction with limited capital and a very intentional sharp focus and thesis. I don't fit everybody's capital. And by the way, it's two ways. You know, it takes two to tango. They don't want to always have me as an investor and I don't always want to have them as a portfolio company. So yeah, I get rejected as much as they get rejected. It's not— it's not one-way traffic. It's two-way traffic, right?

Yeah. So What would be your, your last message, your parting message to our listeners today?

I would say innovation and venture entrepreneurship is going to be a bigger slice of the global economic growth pie. It's going to create more jobs. It's going to give more opportunity. So whether you're an angel investor, a fund manager, an entrepreneur, uh, you should be more open to looking into this sector and getting involved in some form, whether you're a mentor, you know, um, whatever that hat you wear, you should get more involved because it's going to have a bigger impact to the benefit of society as there's more innovation and entrepreneurship by women Joining the entrepreneurship workforce. So get involved in, in whatever way you can.

I love it. What a great and uplifting way to end our conversation today. Thank you so much, Pierre. It's been an absolute pleasure, um, as always, and I, I think a very rich, well-rounded conversation. I think our listeners and our viewers will have much better insight into how you tick, your— the way you look at things, how you approach things, how you like to collaborate and partner with people from all parts of the ecosystem. So thank you for being with us and look forward to seeing you again soon. And yeah, it's been an absolute joy.

Likewise, thank you for having me.

Thank you.

All the best. Have a great day and have a nice rest of August and take some time off for your work. Work-life balance, as I said earlier.

Definitely. Thanks, Aurelia.

Thank you.

Take care.

Bye-bye. Bye.