🎙️ EP37: Unleashing the Power of Branding Identity to Get You Funded Faster,… | InvestHer Podcast

Hello again, everybody. If you're new to this podcast, I'm Anne, your friendly funding host. Delighted to have you with us. And for those of you who are regular listeners, welcome back. In this week's episode, you're going to learn more about branding, brand identity, why you should care, particularly if you are a startup or scale-up looking for funding or an emerging fund and you need to distinguish yourself from other funds. So in this episode, you're going to learn loads about branding identity from a global branding identity expert, Gustavo Stescher from Membranding. Gustavo is one of our longtime partners. Since 2015, he helped to create the beautiful branding for both Global InvestHer and InvestHer Summit. And you're going to absolutely love this episode. Now, at the end of it, you'll hear me saying, ah, we're going to go to the summit. This is— we're releasing this episode after the first Investor Summit from 2023 has happened, but you will get the links to all the resources we were mentioning in the show notes. I hope you really enjoy this episode as much as I did. Investor Podcast is for you, the female founder who has a product, a service, or a message that you believe in and need to get funded. Or for you, the investor who wants to learn more about the huge untapped investment opportunity that gives you a higher return— women entrepreneurs. My name is Anne Ravanona. I'm an entrepreneur, TEDx speaker, and women's advocate. And I'm passionate about helping women entrepreneurs get funded. In each episode, we'll take a behind-the-scenes look into real-world funding tactics and strategies to help you get the funding you need faster. Let's put the fun into funding. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let's get started. Welcome everybody to another episode of Invest Her Podcast, and this week it is my absolute Absolute pleasure to introduce you to Gustavo Stescher, who is our partner for many years. He is the founder and CEO of Membranding, and he's a fabulous guy. He's a fabulous guy, an incredible professional, and I'm— I know you're going to learn a lot from him, everything to do about branding. Welcome, Gustavo.

Hi, Anne. Thanks a lot, and thanks for that Beautiful introduction. I hope I deserve it.

Oh, you absolutely deserve it. I mean, you really do, Gustavo. So let's get started. Tell us a little bit. I want the audience to know who you are. Tell us a bit about yourself and men branding first before we go any further.

Sure. Well, I started studying architecture, then graphic design, then I did some business master and some marketing studies. So my background is mostly from all the branding area. So my specialty is in social branding. We, we love to work with the social impact. So we have a couple of big expertise. One is on city branding. So we work with communities and try to get their values, to make their values visible. And then we apply that methodology that we will speak afterwards and to startups. That is our second main area of expertise. The idea is to make people understand how to translate your values and your ideas and your project into a visual identity system.

Brilliant.

I'm also a professor, so I teach branding. I did it for more than 20 years in Buenos Aires, and I'm a guest lecturer here in Spain at the Complutense and in San Diego, San Diego University. And I'm a regular professor in the Master of Branding at City College in New York.

And I want you to tell the world about the incredible work you did around the Bicentenary of Argentina. I want this as a background because it is very exceptional, and I want you to mention the Biennale of Venice as well, please. So please start over Argentina, and that you are Argentinian. Let's fly the flag.

Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm a Polish guy but born in Argentina. I lived there all my life and For the last, like in 2020, at the beginning, we moved to Spain. So we're living in Madrid with my family now. But yeah, I studied there. My big company and the studio is still there. It's in Argentina, but we have like offices in New York and here in Madrid where I am working. In 2010, that was the bicentennial of Argentina. We actually, it was one year before the contest. We won the international contest and were able to create a new national symbol that was represented everywhere. And from there, it was 6 million people on the celebrations and all the graphics everywhere. But we also designed the official stamp, the official booth for all the country. We created the, the the 2 pesos coin that was the main coin at that time. Unfortunately, it lost, it lost all its value in these 10 years. Yeah, it's due to Argentinian economy. But it was an amazing project. And after that, we also created all the identity of the, of the City College of New York that is 175 years now. So It's only 25 years different, the country and the school. That was also a big, big project. And now we just won a European fund for working. We are building a network. It's a tourist network to improve the identity of small rural communities. building their identity and, and helping them build like a regenerative tourist project. So we will give visibility and identity to all those projects. That is the thing. We already started with that and it's a huge project.

I mean, it's— Gustavo is very humble, guys. I want you to know his work is exceptional already. When, when he mentions winning that competition, the international contest, for the Bicentenary of Argentina, of Argentina. That was— you beat 299 other agencies, isn't that it? Something like that? Yeah, maybe more. I mean, don't be humble. This is where I want you to be like, yay!

Yeah, yeah. We also, we also won the Biennale here in Madrid with the project we did for the Bariloche city. That I think that the main award wasn't winning the Biennale. The main award is that tourism in Bariloche grew over 20% when they started implementing the new identity and all that community system. So it was like, it was like boom, and it's still working. So it's the first time that an identity project lasts so long and it becomes identity and not a marketing project. And after that, we were hired to do all the branding for the— I mean, they applied to be— to lead the International Fair for 2027. So they are fine. They are— I mean, it's a contest between Bariloche, Phuket, Málaga and Minneapolis. They all applied. So we did all the new identity for that in Bariloche. And we also created all the Río Negro, the province identity. And we're working now for Patagonia. Hopefully it will happen. Yeah.

I mean, it's really exceptional. And that's why I want you all to hear And you will learn a lot more from his website and everything, which we'll share in the show notes. So, and this brings us to the very natural question, Gustavo, what is brand identity? Let's start there. What is it? And then why is it important? So what is it?

That's a great question. I love the idea that you ask for brand identity and not for branding. Branding is, it's like a very complex word because it might mean a lot of different— it's very polysemic. Now each one can can understand something different. But brand identity, it, it go— it nails it because it goes directly to who you are. And that's where we work. We should always make a big difference between what is marketing and what is identity. And identity is who you are. I mean, you may change during the years. I mean, you will see I am like gray hair probably, but you will recognize me in 10 years, even in If I dress different or I have a beard. But marketing is different because through marketing we want to achieve a goal. So to achieve a goal, that's a campaign. So the big difference is one thing is identity, is who you are and what are your values, where you wanna, what is your value proposition, why you are doing this, who you want to help. So it's more about the structure, about who you are and who you are as a company. And all the rest has to do with communication and to achieving goals. Like you have objectives and it's great, but it's a program. I mean, a marketing campaign can last 1 month, can last 1 year, but once you achieve that goal or you don't, you move to the next step and you change it, but, or you create a new one. And if the audience is completely the opposite, you can see it in banks or whatever. If you change the audience in the page. It will look completely different, but your main identity should remain the same because it's you. It's your heart and soul. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Why the— why you do this? Why are you doing this and you are not selling tomatoes? I don't know. It's, it's, it's the, it's the main question.

And, and why, why is having a strong brand identity important for a startup? Let's start there. But why is it important to have that strong identity?

I mean, in my opinion, it's important in life. If you have a strong identity, everything will work smooth and people will understand who you are before you start talking. I mean, it's, uh, branding is not about the logo design. Logo design is less than 10% of branding. identity. The identity is built with who you are, what you communicate, how you build your identity system, the visual identity system, the sonic branding, the conceptual area. I mean, it's all integrated in who you are. It's like if I ask you who you are, you will start talking as I did. Now, where did you study? Where were you born? Who are your friends? What do you want to achieve in life? What are your values? So it has to do with a structure, with something that is really strong, not with the objectives or goals only. So that's why it's so, so important. And we need to think about the company or the project as a person. So it should have its own personality that it might differ from yours. Because at a certain point, the project will grow and maybe you, I mean, you sell it or somebody else takes part of it. So the personality that we are building now has to do with the project and how it should be. It has to do a lot with you, but it has to do a lot with your audience. That is who you are doing it for and why. And then you build it. Once you decide those values and the voice and how it will speak, how it will start, how it will look like, how it will talk, how it will think. So all those elements that define personality, you will start getting a brand. And also you need to think about the brand architecture.

Mm-hmm.

That has nothing to do on the building or the offices. The brand architecture is how you organize Your brand portfolio, and you may ask that why I need only one. Only one logo is probably yes. But when you start a project like this, you might have different business units. You might have different audiences. So you need to start thinking how how you create a brand, how you create a system that is that has all the assets and all the elements you need to communicate to different audiences.

Which, which is such a powerful concept. And not just a concept, it's a construct. It is, is much more than that. But it's, it's, as you say, it's like how you create that system to communicate to different audiences. It's, it's more— and, and that you adapt it, and yet it's always you. That's why I kind of said it's like your DNA. You can always recognize—

Mm-hmm.

that it's you, it's your voice. It's, it's so that when you see the Nike tick, you know what it is.

Yes.

You know.

But the Nike tick has something that is, it's, it's a very good example. The Nike tick is one icon that represents, uh, all the company, but that was built during the years. I mean, that's something that when you go back, you look, wow, this is wonderful. But when you start, it's just another drawing and another icon. What they did really great is they built the branding after that. So start checking how they use the fonts, how they use the colors, how they use the texture, how they open their website. I mean, all the system is what builds a real, a really strong identity. The same happens with Coca-Cola, for example. I mean, it's It's not a good logo design is what they had, but it became a— that's another point. It became a symbol. So when you get— I mean, the best thing that might happen is that, and it will happen through the years if you really add enough value to it, is that your brand is an icon that becomes a symbol. I mean, I think I have one or two of that only. Luckily, one is the bicentennial. It becomes a symbol, a symbol that represents the country. So then it's out of me completely. But when it becomes a symbol, people start to defend because of the— to defend it because of the values that you represent. It can be in retail, it can be in whatever. There's a big, beautiful history about when Gap tried to change their logo. People who was using the Gap sweatshirts all their life. I don't want this to change. I want to, I want you to keep it because it's part of my identity. So that's what's happening to Coca-Cola. I was working with them for some years, for many years, and there was a discussion and that I once, I was explaining that Pepsi doesn't have this problem because they don't, it's not a symbol. So they can change the design all the time, so they can create whatever they want. But then I say, but if you ask me, I prefer to have Coca-Cola's problem and not Pepsi's problem.

And I want us now to— now that you've given us the background as to what is a brand identity and why it is important, now let's, let's go deeper into the startup ecosystem. and how it adds value to that startup, especially when they're raising money. Because, you know, you have worked with several incredible startups who have gone on to raise, and you're going to tell us some of those stories. But tell us a little bit about why, you know, what should startups be thinking about when it comes to branding to help them get funding? So to help them to create that brand identity so that people Connect with them.

Yeah, that's, uh, I think that especially for startups is even more important. I mean, for a startup, I would always recommend to integrate all the branding concepts in the first stage because we are talking about personality. So when you start the project, when you are a startup and you start building like the, the product or the service or the, all the when you start dealing with all of that, you are building the personality. So that's the moment where you have to start discussing it. I will highly recommend not to think about branding as a design service that you add at the end to make everything nicer. Yeah. Design is, is not about aesthetics. It's not about Or at least branding is not about making things nicer. It's about making things better. The big, the most interesting part about all the design area, you know, the projectual area where we can include architecture, industrial design, video, and all those, is that we are trained since we are young, since we started, to work with 5 or 10 things or areas at the same time and push them all together to get to a result. It's not a linear process. It's like, I don't know, an orchestra director. Now you have to think and to work with all the instruments at the same time and with the rhythm and with— it's exactly the same. So that training helps a lot building a project. And that's why I— and it will help you put it into words. And, and, you know, the— when you want to prepare an elevator pitch, the, the big, the difficult part is how can I explain all what I'm trying to do in just 1 minute? Well, you have to, and the branding helps you because it also It's not only 1-minute text, it's also in 2 or 3 drawings. So it helps a lot condensing the information, trying to extract what is more important. And that's why when we talk about values, I mean, we all have like 20 values, but if you want to communicate, if you want to grow, you need to reduce that to 3 to 5.

And so walk us through some of the practical examples, Gustavo, where you supported some startups at different stages of their funding journey. So from— let's start at the very beginning. Give us an example of a startup that was just raising their first million or even less.

And that's, that's it. That's— yeah. I, I'm thinking about different— I will, I will talk about 2 or 3 different scales of funding. One is we created one that's called the MOSPR. We did that, I think, 3 or 4 years ago. They came to me, they were trying to make, to build it, and actually the project was amazing, was how to include finance education into kids and how to train them since they are kids to know how to take care of the money, how to save. And they created a platform that is really amazing. Now, I mean, you have more options, but at that time it was like very original, very new. And they came to me and I helped them build like a complete family or toolbox to communicate the project and to give an identity to the project. So they, through that, we helped a lot building the investor deck and not only the investor deck, but the mockups and the design of the of the, of the cards, because the idea was to— they work as credit cards. So design the cards. We try to think what kind of different business units they will have. So because they were working on different countries on one side, Mexico, Brazil, and the United States, so those have different audiences. And also they were shooting for partnerships with Mastercard, and on the other side were shooting with some completely independent cards. So it was really complex. They were at the beginning and we built a full family of assets that helped us shoot to all those options. And they raised their first million very fast after that because they saw that there was a huge potential. The they were looking for yeah for one million and they they did it in two rounds very very very fast so it was great we were all happy I got paid so it was fantastic and and then I helped them build internally their own design team because they were growing a lot and they needed like very fast products and elements in communication they had to be because they they finally signed the contract with Mastercard in in Brazil that was awesome and also in Mexico. So they needed one team in each country working fast. So they really, in that case, they really needed an internal team and they started growing. It was like a huge success. So that is one. Then I can tell about like the biggest one and we did it many years ago when they were really in the first stage, they were trying to create— it's a company that tried to create satellites, but mini satellites, less than 1 kilogram, to put them on in— to work like satellites, but mini.

Mm-hmm.

And they had a great idea. I mean, they were really cheap. It's completely different technology, but it worked very well. And Their name is Satellogic. So we created a full idea of the brand with the O looking like the Earth and with an accent that is the tiny satellites. They have a constellation now of, I think that's 300. They just launched the last ones a couple of months ago and they are a unicorn. I mean, they're valuing, I don't know how many billions now. But we started with them when they were nothing. I mean, they were just starting. So they came to us. And the interesting part is they kept, in both projects, they kept the same identity.

Hmm.

Because we worked on their identity. We didn't design a logo. If we design a logo, you will be changing it every other year because change the condition, you change the logo. Change the communication, change that. The logo is not for communication. The logo is for identity. If you build a logo that reflects the identity of the company, you don't need to change. Maybe you adjust something. What you will be doing is improving your visual identity system. What does it mean?

A bit like what Apple did where they started off with the color, or I don't think it was color, then it went to multicolor, then they got rid, they moved it, da da da da da, but it's still that Apple vibe out of it.

They kept the structure.

Yeah.

I mean, after so many years, you need to make some changes, something. But what is interesting in Apple is how they changed the system. They moved from a colorful campaign, like the one, the first one they did with the iPods, to a black and white plane and the minimal concept. I mean, when your company grows or shifts to a different place, you need different assets to communicate. So at that point you have to say, okay, do we need to improve the brand or do we need to build more assets and more elements into the branding system for the communication? And that's the way to do it. So basically, like in a very synthetic way, what we usually recommend is to have a brand that doesn't explain too much.

Hmm.

You don't need to explain your company in a logo. And the reason is if you explain too much, whatever slight changes you have, you will have a problem. And the big one. And the big one.

And, and I—

same with the naming. Yeah.

And yeah, no, I wanna just also comment on that and say that the name of your company, Membranding, is because it's menos es más, less is more. Exactly.

And it is exactly, I just wanted, because it It's your point.

Less is always more. Being more concise has more impact.

Exactly. And that's a concept that came from my background in architecture. Mies van der Rohe created this concept about less is more. And it's not always, but in design, if you can communicate with less elements, you will communicate much more.

Yeah.

Because it's stronger. It's the same, the same track that before him, Adolf Loos, when he was fighting against all the ornaments, no, like something that shouldn't be. You should follow your function, who you are, and what is needed in a structural design. Now finding the beauty in the structure, in building something that is solid and it reflects The identity of the architecture or the project. So menos es más in Spanish. I remember we started in Argentina. So after, after 20 or 25 years of the company there, I mean, we, we went international earlier. We started working in the US in 2000, 2002, I guess. So yeah, 2002 we started working in the US. So it's 20 years ago. So for when we get— when we became international, we took the initials, the MEM for Menos Es Más, and we translated and we created MEM branding. So we, again, the idea in there is to keep our roots and, and improve the identity into the new branding. So we kept it.

And I love because it's also for me when If you didn't know the story behind MEM being menos es más, less is more, when you see MEM branding just as an English speaker, a native English speaker, you think if this is memorable branding, it's something that sticks. So it's very clever even in the words and the way that you decided to do it that way and make it more condensed and concise just with your initials. It's very powerful.

Yeah, that was the idea. I mean, that was the game, no? Like talking about the memorable branding, but keeping our roots. So yeah, I'm glad you got it.

I totally got it. And well, you've trained me well, Gustavo. We've been working together for quite some time, so it's good. And tell us the example as well with Aegle Therapeutics, because that's a woman entrepreneur, um, in biotech that you, that you've worked with. Tell us a bit about that.

Yeah, that, that actually, that was the first project I did. Since I we came to Europe, I mean, we moved to to Madrid, and the first project we started working was in Eglé. Eglé is a biotech startup that it starts from from the Curie Institute in Paris, that they they keep I think ten percent of the of the startups, and it's. It was built by a scientist. Yeah, that is Ellie and a business guy, that's Luke. And they both built this and it's a biotech that is working. They found in their years studying and as a scientist, she found actually, she found the cure to cancer and autoimmune diseases. She found it and it's amazing. And she could do it because of the high technology they had there. So it's really very complex. It took me, I don't know, I think that a full day asking him to repeat it again because it has to do with the T-Rex and with the tick.

Super complicated.

Super complicated, but it's amazing. It's like science fiction. And so they needed to raise money, you know, that trying that is like big amount of money. So they wanted that, they were preparing their presentation. She showed me the presentation. I said, I mean, if they take the time to understand and read all this that you're sending, it might get the funds. But if we create something that is easier, you will get it easier.

Hmm.

And they trusted. So we built a brand, we built a deck, We redesigned her deck and presentation. And in the first presentation with the— it was with— we can say because it's public. So with Takeda, with the Japanese, they raised not only the first round, but the second. I mean, they took the commitment to the 2 rounds.

Hmm.

So they got the first money and also the other $30 million that they were asking for to the second round to start working with the with animals and then with people.

Yeah.

So, and they did it incredibly fast. And the interesting part is, it's great because she told me that when they did the presentation, they asked her, for how many years you've been working on this? And she said, no, this is from last year. We built it a few months ago. Oh, but this, this looks like something that was here for many years. And, uh, and that's exactly what we were talking about.

The science.

To look like—

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, to look like the way you want to look in 5 years, that's the way you have to look now.

Oh, and because it, it's just—

Because, I mean, it reduces the time.

It reduces everything. And it brings me back because when you and I met, it was 2015 in Miami. We were at a conference together and you'd done beautiful branding for Women Entrepreneurship Day in Latin America. And I remember very well when we met, we had a great conversation and I gave you my card and I had our previous logo on it. And you told me what you did and I said, you know, I really You know, you took one look at it and you were very polite and you said, we can do better. It was very, very subtle the way you said it. And I liked you immediately. I said, this is a great guy. And so we've worked together and, you know, Gustavo has built our brand identity for Global InvestHer and now for InvestHer Summit that we'll talk about later. And the pride that I get in describing when people see the icon, they see the brand, the pride that I get to explain the symbolism behind it. The people go, wow, wow, wow, I see this, this, this, this. I said, yeah, but it's all this, this, this, and more. And they're like, wow, it's so powerful in just one. You have this real gift of condensing the values, the voice. The projection of what they want to become, because that's what you're saying. It's like when Egle came, when the others came, Satologic, they were in the embryo stage, and yet they had the vision of where they wanted to go. And you're bringing— you're building that brand identity that takes them from embryo to full adult and beyond into the future.

Yeah, and I see it with my kids. I mean, building an identity takes a lot of time. Because you're moving all the time. The same with the company. So building an identity, so the earlier you start, the stronger it gets. And so if you start at the beginning, you look like a strong project, like with a strong identity earlier.

Yeah.

And there's something that is interesting to say, is you don't need to— I mean, it's impossible to decode a concept when you see a logo. It's impossible. I mean, you can't. I mean, it's not linear. But if you come when somebody explains like what you are doing, well, we did this because of that, and you, after they explain, you see it and it is all cohesive and it's relevant. So it makes a click.

Yeah. And they— anyway, that's exactly it. They get it. And yeah, so, so that's why I love what you said about— I think that's a very important key tip for any founder or funder or ecosystem player. You said that the earlier you start with that brand identity, the stronger it becomes. So I want to encourage those early-stage startups who have this misconception that you demythed immediately, that branding does not equal logo. It's so much more than that. So for them, branding equals logo. It is not. And I love the way, and you made it clear, logo's 10%, not even, right, of what that story is.

Not even. Yeah. So I mean, you can, you can get a logo design for $10 online.

Yeah.

Nice ones. But it's not, that's not a brand.

It's not a brand and it's not—

You will never build a brand with it.

No. And I remember the feeling. What I want our audience to know is that Gustavo is incredibly talented at listening to you, pulling the information he needs out of you. Because sometimes we, we, we think we know, but then he'll pull and push you— not push, but just question you and clarify, clarify until he gets what he needs. And then he comes back and you just go, Oh my God. And when, when you did that twice for us, Gustavo, when you presented the Global InvestHer brand identity first, and I remember you gave us 3 options. And when I saw the one that is the one today, my heart sang because it felt you got exactly who we are and who we wanted to become. And the same with the summit logo. So I just want to say to everybody listening that when you work with Gustavo and his team, It is an experience and you grow, you grow as a company, as a person, and in the way that you express yourself because he helps bring the clarity and get to the core. And that's why the less is more. He helps you to get to the core. And then when you are concise, clear, you have much better impact. And that's what he's done with— and I really mean that from the bottom of my heart— you are very gifted at doing that, Gustavo. And it comes through the examples that you've also shared through Maspar, Aegle, and Satellogic. So if we were to kind of now put on the hat for the funders, so investors, venture capital funds, and in particular those who are creating a new fund, these emerging funds, What should they be thinking about when it comes to brand identity? If they're creating their fund, should they be thinking or worrying about it? Because they're like, oh, I'm— I can get loads of millions of people, millions of money. Should I worry about brand identity?

They should. They should worry in the— in 2 ways. First, on their own identity, of course, as a fund, probably they have it, but it's nice to to think about it if it fits to what they are trying to achieve, basically who they are and what they are trying to achieve. So that's on one way. But on the other side, I think they should commit to all these entrepreneurs' identities. So they should ask if they They should check the identity of the project. But if they don't have it solid, they should worry about not when they fund the company, it should be like an imposition, like, okay, because we love the project, but this needs a soul. This needs to grow together with your own identities since now, since the beginning.

Mm-hmm.

Because it's not something that you add later. is something that should be built since the beginning. Every single speech you give, every single communication piece you send abroad, or any sign that you hang anywhere starts building your brand. And if you want your brand to be strong, the sooner you start, the better it will be.

And I love the way you've positioned that. Sorry, Gustavo. I love the way you position that for both the the fund creating their own fund and their own brand identity to attract investors into the fund and, you know, startups to apply to them. And also what you just said is like when you're investing in those portfolio companies, so the ones you're investing in, those you can also be helping them and say, okay, who needs a bit of help to take them to the next level to add more value or to get more clarity?

Yeah, but it's not only help, it's business. I mean, yes, yes, if you strengthen their identity and so they will get funded faster and they will get like their project move forward faster. So we do better business. It's a great investment.

Yeah.

A great investment.

Yes, yes, yes. That's so important. I think that's one key takeaway from this podcast is that Building and investing in your brand identity is a great investment.

Yeah, it's not a cost.

It's not a cost.

It's never worth it. Never.

That is so important.

You cannot go naked to the street. No, you need to. So this is the same. I mean, you need to look the same way as you are.

Yeah.

I mean, I usually make this example as a balance. If the perception of your branding is higher than what you are doing, you have a big problem because people is expecting something that you won't deliver.

Mm-hmm.

If it's the opposite, you have a different problem. If the perception of what you are doing is lower than what you— what— than the quality of your product, you have a different problem. That means Your clients will be happy because they get more than what they expect. But the problem is in the gap. There are a lot of projects that you will not get because they don't perceive that value. And that's where you will be lost. And you will say, ah, but everybody's happy. Yeah, of course everybody's happy because they are getting more than what they're expecting.

Hmm.

But it's not everybody, it's all those who hired you. But let's talk about all those who should have hired you and would have hired you if you had the right perception, if they get the right perception of what you do. So communication is like that. And also, you know, you know, people usually they have like, I don't know, 1, 2, 3 minutes of attention, and after that they get a phone call, whatever, they get lost if you don't If they don't perceive that this is something important, that we, okay, we need to focus on this. This is something that I never heard about that looks so to, to get attracted to a project, you know, it's sometimes it's a one, it's a one chance, a one shot.

You're so right because especially in this day and age, it's a war for attention. It's a war to attract attention, to keep attention. So, so if your brand identity is strong, it helps you stand out from the noise, basically.

Exactly. That's why what I'm saying is you should look like what you expect to be in a couple of years.

Yes.

Because that's what they're selling. When a fund puts money on you, it's because they are looking, they, they can understand where you are trying to get or what you are trying to achieve. And that's what you have to show, what you are trying to achieve, even if you don't have the product ready. But this is how we envision it. That's what we did with Aglaé. That's what we did with the Mospero. Because if you build it in that way, you will keep the same identity and you will add the elements to the toolbox that you need to communicate. Anytime you change a country, okay, we need to add a language, we need to add the— to understand the culture. But that goes on this, on the visual identity system, not on the brand. So you, you buy more tools. It's like, I don't know, if you have a problem, if you have a leak in your, in your bathroom, no, if I only have a hammer, I will destroy— if I don't have tools, if I only— maybe I can fix it. But maybe not. But if I have a full toolbox, I can replace any part. I can keep on building new parts. And if you want to add, I don't know, an air conditioner, if I have it, well, we will need to buy those tools probably or to get ready to that. So the full idea is understanding where you are going. That's why we are talking about identity.

Yes.

Who you are, you won't change in a couple of years.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's so true, so true. And so now as we're kind of coming to, to the wrap-up phase, what would you say would be your key tips to women founders when things— when they need to think about their brand identity? Anything in specific that you'd say, do this, this, this, and in this order?

I would recommend, as I usually do, is is do the consulting on identity, because that's not— that's nothing— that's something that doesn't come in any formal studies. I mean, you don't get it in formal studies.

So can you explain what that is when you say do the consulting on identity? What does that mean, doing that with you? What does that mean?

I will try to start with an example. For example, if I ask you what's your identity as a person, I mean, you know We perfectly know who you are, but try to explain it in 30 seconds. And it's difficult to put it in words. You know what it is, but it's difficult to translate it.

Mm-hmm.

And you need a translator. I mean, we usually call ourselves like translators. We translate concepts into graphics. Some people translate Spanish into English. Well, we do not. We do, we use a GPT now for that. But, um, so that's very special, like, uh, taking that, because we need to understand, I mean, it's like an actor's, uh, uh, job, because I need to get into your shoes, understand who you are, and then, uh, from there make a— I mean, it's not that I have a style and I, I do graphics in my style trying to express your personality. That doesn't work. I have to understand who you are and what do you want to achieve. And we are not doing— I mean, actually, I don't care if you like it. I really— what I do, I mean, at the end, of course, we do care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the main part is, is it good for the company? Does it reflect the values? Will it help you growing in your business, in your project? Does it reflect what it should? Do we build with this? Can we build with this all the tools you need for the different business units? So that's the— those are the main questions, because it might like you or other. I mean, if you like it, if you prefer red than green, that's okay if it has some meaning, if it makes sense. If it's personal, use red on your personal communication, but not in the company's one. Then there you need to use what you really need, what is better for the company and what reflects better the communication, the identity.

Yeah.

So the tips is basically try to get them because it's like, I don't know, it's like with finances or with taxes and If you go to a new country and you need to do the taxes, you ask your accountant. You ask for an accountant who knows how it works, because that's the only way to do it. This is the same. Try not to do it by yourself or with your nephew or whoever knows how to draw. It has nothing to do with drawing. I mean, it has to do with expressing your identity. So after, at the end, you can get help for drawing, but conceptually—

Yeah.

Understanding what you need, that's something you will need help. And the sooner you start with that, the better.

So you start with consulting to do kind of a brand or a visual identity audit. So that's how they start. Yeah. You start with them, you make, you ask them the right questions and you make them think.

Exactly. Yeah. That, that's what we do. And sometimes it's just 2 or 3 sessions, no more than that. And we get, I mean, We ask for a lot of information, we get it, we translate it, and when we— and then we, we come with the brand architecture structure and the values to start working on the branding plan, how to get into it. And then you can decide, okay, I'm not at this stage yet. I want to— we can start with this part first. I mean, we have usually like 4 stages working on to build the brand. The first one is this one, the conceptual one. I mean, it has to do with the text, with the with the concepts, with the values, and building the brand architecture that reflects the structure of the business that you're planning. And branding architecture, it's very important to tell it, is very dynamic. That changes all the time. It has to do with opportunities. You have an opportunity in the market, you add a business unit.

Yeah.

And you know it, if you think about it, you will see it all the time. I mean, Adidas was also in bankruptcy. And they found that there was a urban tribe from skaters that, and they understood them, and they regrew again, moving their identity, adding elements to their identity to capture their attention and building what they really need. So hunting for that. So the first part is building that, the brand architecture that is dynamic, but it's what you need now. And the action and the branding plan. That's stage 1 with the personality and all the conceptual part. Stage 2 is the usual one, is building the UI, you know, like the branding itself, like designing a logo, the visual identity system, all the— and creating the first communication pieces and investor deck and the— Also, that is stage 3. Now it's like mostly the assets to build all those pieces. So the branding, the visual identity, and all those assets. And you end with the brand guide. Stage 3 is building the application, going to the real world. Okay, now we have to build the website. We need to make an investor deck. We need digital business cards for email signature, I don't know, a layout for WeTransfer, whatever you need for all the— and the key to social networks and all the communication kit or the newsletter design or packaging depending on what you are building. Now we are working, for example, we are working now for a very small entrepreneur in Peru that is doing like fruits with organic chocolate, and they are building on those products that are amazing, really great. So we are doing for Phoenix packaging, labels, all the product to start selling beside all the communication kit, and they are doing great. It's a beautiful project. So we started with