🎙️ EP54: The Monadd Story: Venture-Backed PropTech with Jessica Mendoza | InvestHer Podcast

So welcome everybody to our latest episode of InvestHer Podcast. It's your funding friend Anne, and I am so happy to be here today with Jessica Mendoza from Monad. How are you, Jessica? It's great to have you with us.

I'm doing well. I am currently in the US helping my parents move, but I am really doing well.

And it's kind of— I don't say ironic, it's cool that you're doing that because part of what your business does is helping people who need to make moves and many moves. So I just think it's great. But before we go there, let's start at the beginning. How did you become an entrepreneur, Jess? And before you decided to set up ModeAd, and you tell us more about it.

I became an entrepreneur almost by chance when I started the business. So I was in the UK shifting careers, and I had this idea of helping people identify the bills and services, anything that you have linked to your place. And I shared it with a group of technologists. So I came into the UK with a Tech Nation Visa, which is now called the Global Talent Visa. So they want me to innovate and bring innovation into the UK ecosystem. And I shared it with a group of like other incredibly savvy, you know, well, very talented people. And I said, is there something that's gonna be able to help me, you know, identify all of these things? You know, particularly because I want to be responsible, I wanna be able to notify everybody of my move. And these technologists came about and said, you know, I've been thinking about doing something like this. I'm going to help you build it.

Mm-hmm.

So that's how it started. So it started really from sharing an idea. to a group of individuals who really had the intrinsic know-how and they had the will to come in for this. What it was at first, it was a project.

But okay, I want you to tell us, bring us back, because what's your backstory, Jessica? You have a lot of experience in many, many multiple hats, so that's important for context because you're able to see an opportunity, seize it, and jump on it. So bring us back a couple of chapters and tell us a bit about like your background and yeah, how you came to London.

Yeah, so I am originally from Venezuela and I have lived in the United States. We moved to the United States for quite some time. Prior to that, when I was, uh, younger, so when I was 9 and 10, I was actually living in Scotland. So I, through my experience, I have lived in many different countries and I went to the US and studied marketing and philosophy. I had a full-time job, had 2 full-time jobs, because as you know, in the US, and particularly as a migrant like me, you really want to make the best out of your experiences, but also be able to gain a sustainable living. And sometimes one job does not do it. So I had 2 jobs at the time when I was in university. One was working with the student computing services. So back in the day, there were some things as computer labs. So I used to be a supervisor there.

Mm-hmm.

And then also work for the Center for Civic Engagement. So that is a nonprofit organization within the university that helps and empowers students to learn and know about how they can be engaged civically on global political and environmental and societal problems as a whole. So I was involved in many things, and I wish I had the opportunity even to do more. I would, you know, go into classes even though I was not registered, but I just wanted to peek in and see how the lecture was going because I really liked the topic. So that was my university career. And then after that, I went into work for a market research company. And in market research, you do a lot of analysis.

Mm-hmm.

So it is all about identifying the trend, identifying the insight, being able to kind of get a glimpse of data. And I had a lot of training with data and be able to identify like, oh, is there a pattern here that is happening over time? Is there something that we're able to provide and tell to the other party that wants this information? So that really started to like shift my brain into like, oh, there's insights that I can glean out of just looking at data. And that was like most of my training. And then after that, I went to work with probably one of the most ethical and well-grounded organizations that I've ever worked on, which is the Associated Press. The Associated Press is a media organization that breaks the news all around the world, and they pride themselves on being unbiased and really have great ethical standards. And with them, I was able to launch products. I was working within the marketing department, launching digital products globally. So I got to work with the team in the UK, and then I was working with teams all over the world. in translating websites to make sure that they are localized and have nuance that it's needed for different audiences, working on technical items like we had APIs that we needed to launch. So all of this background of me going through how to understand data, how to, you know, be grounded in a university, in a, in a place that is really favors ethics, um, led me to work in a model in Monad now. Because at the end of the day, Monad is also a database organization, and we love being quite ethical, particularly when it comes to data.

Yeah.

So yeah, so that's how my journey started. But it, um, at the time I never knew that I was going to be an entrepreneur. That was not you know, that was not something that I necessarily dreamed of. I think at the time I was just very keen on getting really good at my profession. My profession at the time was being a marketing and product manager, and I joined many organizations at the time that allowed me to be that. So allow me to progress, allow me to volunteer in other nonprofits, or industry organizations to be able to move forward in my day job. So like after work, I will do something else. I will go to another organization, volunteer, give my time, move their projects along. And then the next day, I will come back to work and the learnings that I had in my volunteer organizations, I would apply to my job. And I've always been the type of person that loves working in 1,000 things at the same time. Yeah. So it was whenever I came and arrived to the UK, I was just kind of like, okay, I have the will, I have the grit for it. Let's, let's, you know, let's make the most out of it. Yeah. So that's how, how, how things started developing. But I definitely take a— I think if, if I was Not if I was, if I had to be more passive, or if I didn't have like that side learning, you know, through my career, you know, side activities. I probably would have not gained as much traction on, on some of the projects that I was working on the companies, or so much motivation for me to start doing something new. Because as I was doing side activities, at some point people started saying like, oh, can you consult for me? You know, and then I started a little consulting business at the time and it was little. But at some point I started working with the New Museum in New York, which is a museum of modern art focused on new and digital perspectives. So they try technology and art and they told me, like, we want you to teach a class for our incubator. So I then started tapping myself into like, oh, like I can, I can consult. And I had to even ask my bosses at the time because it was like, Can I do this? You know, and they were like, yeah, you know, like, as long as it's not related to the media industry, we're good. So I was like, okay. So I went on and started a little bit of a consulting business and started working with some clients, including the New Museum in New York. And then that gave me the confidence that I needed that I could do more. on my own. And more projects like that started to come along. And yeah, I zigzagged as much as possible, you know, exploring different things. I, at some point I was at the Sustain— the FIT, so the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York, and studying to be a sustainable fashion entrepreneur.

Mm-hmm.

So I was really into sustainable fashion. Yeah, but that project, in the long run, it didn't pan out and moved into something else. You know, like everything, you have to like, kind of like taste the flavors of life and then start moving into those directions that you definitely are passionate on. But like the doors keep on opening. And whenever I started Monad, it was one of those points where the doors kept on opening.

Hmm.

And the doors was like, oh yeah, let me connect you with this person, or let me, you know, introduce you to this, or let me, you know. And it, it just happened in an organic way, um, and I didn't face too much reluctance, you know, at the beginning. And it just felt like this is what I'm meant to do.

But so how did you arrive in London then? Was it you finished the project after FIT and then you— yeah, and that was— or was it FIT that brought you to London? How did you get here? Like, oh, so—

I was working with the at a press at the time.

So I was—

when I was at FIT, I was taking night classes because again, like, I do a whole lot of— so like, you know, I do my day job and then I do something else. So either I volunteer in an industry organization, or at that time I was taking night classes, um, at FIT. Um, and I went to London, um, because I had— during, um, well, IAP, I was working a lot with the London office. So I was already on a back and forth.

Mm-hmm.

And I posed to them, it's like, well, what if I come over here, you know, and help you from this side? And I was launching a global product, uh, at the time where we had the agencies that we were working with in London, everything, the design, everything was happening in London. So I needed to be there. And I said to myself, I don't want to be sponsored by a business. Like, I don't want to be that type of person who comes into a country Just because they're sponsored by their employer. Um, I want to go for an option where I have complete freedom of me either staying at that job or going into another job or doing something new. And I was thinking, how can I have that freedom? And that's when a friend of mine who is from England, she told me, she's like, oh, you know that you can apply for this visa. is a talent visa. You know, at the time it was called exceptional talent.

Mm-hmm.

Um, it's like, I think if you are able to provide a list of all of the, you know, all of the things that you have done and you have, you have the, you know, the documents for it, right? Of course you have, you know, all of the things that you can actually prove, you know, that what you have done has made a difference. You may be able to get it, you know. Because you're, you're very much of a go-getter.

Mm-hmm.

And I was just kind of like, okay. So I went for it. And while I was working at the Associated Press, I applied for this exceptional talent visa. I got it. And then I told the team, I was like, look, I'm going to move to London and you don't need to sponsor me. It's already covered. I can move myself, you know, I can, I can start there. And that's how it started. I had always a knack of working in international fields. So even when I was in university, I loved international business. I loved, yeah, foreign relations. I used to work even a lot of foreign policy at the time. So I was always keen on understanding culture and the nuances of culture. And I knew that I wanted to immerse myself in that. And for me to be able to immerse myself in that, I need to be there. That's how it happened.

Amazing. Okay, so fast forward. What was the year then that you landed in London? Then what was the year that London had the Jessica moment?

Yeah, so I came in 2018. And I was still working at the Associated Press, you know, just launching their projects. I kept a little bit of the consulting business on the side. Um, but yeah, that's, that's where I was like setting root and just getting myself familiarized. And it was a great year. Um, in 2019 was also to some extent a good year until COVID happened. So, um, yeah, so I had a proper, you know, like a proper year and then And then everything stopped.

So, so, okay, so tell us how you kind of formalized Monat then. So you had how many of these tech guys who said, or girls who said, yeah, I'm on board with you, um, this is a good idea, this doesn't exist, it should exist, let's do it together?

Yeah.

So, so how did that work out?

Um, I had originally, um, a handful of people that came in But the ones who stuck along at the beginning were 2 of them who helped me ideate. So I had like 2 technologists, so 2 engineers, um, very well-versed engineers, um, and we modeled part of the architecture. And then they told me, you're going to need, uh, more of a full-time technologist, you know, like they— these people that I was working with, they were above the pay grade that I could even provide or anything. So they told me, it's like, we'll help you get that person. So they started interviewing other engineers for me, and particularly a person that could come in full-time, because they already had like some, some other commitments and some things. So they helped me like model it at the beginning, and they helped me, um, get the team that ultimately started working on Monad full-time.

And so, okay, so now everybody's curious because I know what Monad is, but the rest of the world doesn't really know about it. So yeah, tell us more. What is Monad? What do you do?

Yeah, so Mona is the place where people can identify all of our bills and services that are linked to their home. So this comes in particularly handy whenever you're moving from one place to the other because you're able with Mona to update your address and cancel services. And soon we're going to have other functionality like pausing services from when you're on vacation.

Mm-hmm.

So these are the, the things that we love. We love having people having like a wow moment And whenever they see like, oh, here are my utility bills, but here's also my gym membership and here's my magazine subscription and anything that is really linked to your address. Because in the end of the day, what we do is we analyze billing address as a core functionality of our business to be able to give you the awareness so you can be actually proactive instead of reactive. So not leave any items behind and not be subjected to identity theft. Or also have like an environmental impact because a lot of businesses, particularly in the logistical sector, they rely on good address information. And if they don't have that, things are going to end up in the wrong place altogether.

Mm-hmm.

So we are creating this environment, an ecosystem that is a win-win-win, you know, for everybody that is involved. So it's a win for the end users that are using the product and discovering all of the services that they have linked to them. It's a win for anybody that is in logistics and needs to have the up-to-date information. It is a win for the property managers and residential companies who often have people manually update some things that they are ill-equipped really to do that or manage anything that is belonging to another person. So they are getting removed and they're saving hours now. So yeah, so it's a win-win ecosystem across the board. And of course, the service providers, ultimately, they want to know where you're going, and they want to know what your preferences are, because they want to be able to keep on the relationship and keep that loyalty wherever you go. So that's, that's how, that's how Monat works. And that's how Monat got started.

Well, I love, and I love the way you describe it as an ecosystem. It's not a product. It's not It's so much more because you have, you know, end users and different actual users and customer profiles. So you've got a few different customer profiles. Walk us through, like, who was the first customer profile and then how did that expand?

So I guess the first customer profile that I had was the mover or the resident, um, because that was what I felt so much as I have moved quite some in my life. I knew the use case the most. But then quickly, I think it was in 2021, started getting more and more requests from businesses that wanted to offer this product to their residents. And that is when I started thinking, it's like, oh, Hold on a second. The— there is a bigger pool over here. If I work with property managers, relocation companies, residential apps, all of them want to provide value-add to their residents. All of them have a problem of how can I provide value? How can I lessen the operational costs?

Mm-hmm.

You know, the heads that are working on some of these things manually already. And how can I facilitate, speed up the value that we can provide to our audience? And that's when we started thinking like, oh, hold on a second, there's something else here. So we started moving our audience and target segment to be more for residential businesses.

And yeah, because— and so tell us about some of the key clients that you are, the ones that are public and that you can share about. Yeah, that you work with. Because you have some fabulous clients on your roster now. And how many? Because it's grown. It's so— yeah, it's so much since I first got to know you in about 2018. It was really the beginning of 2019.

Yeah. So, um, the clients that we currently have— so we started at that moment, so like in 2021, that it was the first time that we did a business with another business. So we started like figuring out this business-to-business model. And the largest company that we got there was the post office. So the UK post office, who I had gotten to meet because I was very engaged in industry organizations. Again, industry organizations sometimes lift up, give you some knowledge as to like who are the right players in this environment. So I started Attending a lot of events in London at the time where the post office crew was. And when I had to present myself in front of a crowd of individuals, they will be in the room. Sometimes it will be small workshops where we will be together and I will present myself. And then after, after I presented myself, they said like, oh, I want to talk to you.

Mm-hmm.

So after the workshop and everything, we had one conversation, then we exchanged some emails, and then after some time we, we started making business together. But yeah, so like now we have post office, we have relocation companies that are global. So like some of them are based in Australia, um, and we're catering to their UK business. Um, we have some of these flex living apartments. Um, Aggregators. So whenever you're a person like me who's more nomadic in nature, sometimes you want to live in a place for 3 months at a time, but a completely furnished place. Sometimes it has a community or all amenities. And this is a new sector of businesses that are coming about. They allow people to have a flexible living lifestyle. And we are doing business with some of them, of course, because we want to make sure that whenever their resident comes in, they're not leaving anything behind so that our digital footprint, so to speak, on that place is cleared. Uh, yeah, so we, we started working with, uh, with a handful of businesses, but I think like definitely the post office might be the most well-known one.

And then the other thing, it's so funny, you— here's another, another side stream that you could think of as well, and it's both pertinent to me because our daughter is moving to London very shortly, and so she's looking at the aggregator website For finding your accommodation, da da da da da da. And she's got a funky. She's doing a master's. It's 15 months. It's not a normal thing. Like oh, can we prolong it? And it's such a headache. Like already just to get it. But then, as you say, to move it and so on. So I don't know if you're already working with those kind of organizations. But if you're not, it could be a good idea because they have thousands of students coming in these apartments and in and out, as you say.

Yeah. So so students have always been like um. something to— for us to consider. I think like when we started thinking about students as an audience segment, it was during the time when things were locked down. It didn't fully make sense.

Yeah.

For us to target that. But yeah, so definitely there is— there are some connections that we have with some student organizations, particularly in the residential sector. However, we're still seeing that the ones that are getting used the most are those who are more focused on a wider pool. Um, yeah, and that's— those are the businesses that we're working with.

Amazing. Okay, so now I want us, because this is a funding podcast and so on, I wanted to kind of circle around to your funding journey with Monad because it has been eventful, hasn't it? I mean, tell us, how has it been like from the very beginning, and what has been your funding journey with Monad from 2018 to now?

Oh God, um, um, a disaster and a roller coaster, um, um, to put it lightly. Um, I think like, so for any new person that is coming into building a business, um, they have all of the excitement of the world, they have all of the will, you know, and motivation to go for fundraising. But sometimes the items that they don't do quite often at the beginning might be to getting themselves educated how this process works. And also understanding that external funding from investors and VCs is not the only option.

Mm-hmm.

So I think it's, it's almost like a case of like what gets marketed you know, like what we hear in the news, of course, because it's being well funded, it's the only path that we have available. And that's not the case. So I have received funding from angels, VCs, and I have received grants. And I wish I had known earlier that there are multiple options instead of like just You know, jumping into one at first, which is like, oh, I need to talk to VCs, I need to do this. Because I feel like at the beginning I was not entirely clear as to like how that process was working. And when I say process, I was just kind of like, so how does it work? Do I just send an email and then, and then they respond back? And, you know, and yeah, well, there's an email and there's a deck and there's, you know, financials and, you know, you have to be thinking about your product in the long haul. And where is it going to be, you know, 5 years down the line or like 1 year down the line? So there's more to that as a whole. And also like it's kind of how, how investors evaluate you. So sometimes they evaluate you, particularly in the UK, that my experiences have been more about what you have accomplished. So they take a look at, you know, what are the metrics that you can provide from like the things that you have accomplished? And when you're a very early company, You have not accomplished much, you know, like there's not much to like show. It's like, well, we got 100 people signing up, you know, um, but sometimes it's not enough. Um, so you have to— there's a lot to understand in the process that I was not aware of at the beginning.

Mm-hmm.

And I believe that I had a learning curve throughout the years, um, where I was able to discern, um, what are the investors that I want to talk to and how to be more confident in saying like, oh no, this is not for me. Um, because at the beginning it feels like you're just willing and you have like, you know, and you want to go everywhere. Um, but I feel like a bit of reflection, um, and intelligent thinking is to come into for you to pick and choose as well. It's not up to them to choose all the time.

Yeah, so okay, circle back. So you mentioned that you got funding from angels, VCs, and grants. In what order? And like, how— what were the buckets of money? And how much have you raised so far? Because we want our founders to learn from your journey, but we want investors and future partners. And it may not be investors, yeah, different funders. And that's why I actually, to your point, I like to talk about funders and not investors for that very reason, because I'm like—

Yeah.

So many more different sources of funding than just angel and VC. We need to spread out that menu. So yeah.

And there's also, there's also loans and there's like more to it than what I'm just saying. But I started journeying just with angel investors. So I went in and it was not— I was not prepared to even receive a check because like whenever I had my first person come in and saying like, oh, I want to invest, I didn't even know the documents that I need to provide. So I, I started getting angel checks mostly out of pitches. So I either I would speak up at an event or have a pitch. I pitched everywhere and oftentimes out of a pitch at some point during that event, a person or two will come about and would say like, hey, let's continue the conversation. I'm interested. And this kept on happening over and over and over again. And I started collecting a network of angel investors. So I raised with angels perhaps $200,000 at the beginning. And it was not— when I say beginning, it did take a number of years. And to this day, the angels also like continue to invest.

Mm-hmm.

And then, um, 2022, I started getting some VC money. So I— this also happened. I was not proactively, uh, fundraising, but rather some VCs found me on LinkedIn. And they, they went into my message box and they said, we're interested in learning more about your business. Would you want to you know, book a call. And I got my first VC check when I was not necessarily looking for it. So, um, which is oftentimes what happens. It's kind of like when, when you're being proactive in putting forth your business or you're just, you know, heads down working, sometimes you actually get more inbound interest, um, than you actively seeking out. So So the VC and founder ecosystem, or the funder and founder ecosystem, it's a little bit of a push and pull.

Hmm.

But whenever you pull too much, so whenever you're, you're asking, you know, too much repeatedly to like the same person or the same group of investors, they start questioning like, why is this happening? You know, like, why, why is there so much of an ask here? Whereas like, if you present yourself confidently, or even if you're not even pitching, sometimes you do get the opportunities based on what you're providing out there, what you're putting yourself out there. So maybe it's like you provide a case study, or maybe you did a pitch and you, you know, put it on LinkedIn and promoted it. So there's different ways of how you can enhance the marketing, then how you're able to reach potential investors. So I got started getting some VCs, and then last year I got grants.

So what kind of VCs were they? Were they kind of early-stage VCs, UK or international, just so that you can help people understand?

Yeah, so the VCs I got are international, so they're global, um, VCs, but they are based in the US.

Based in the US, okay.

Yeah, and, and what I have learned from that experience is that you— the US VCs that engage with the most, they didn't have these detractor conversations that I had with the UK VCs. Rather, they were more keen as to understanding where I'm going instead of like, what have I accomplished to date?

That's interesting. So, and I'm curious, what are the difference— like, did you, for example, for the US VCs, did you have to create an office or a company in the US for them to— a vehicle for them to invest in, or did they invest in your UK company?

No, they invested in the UK business. Um, the only, uh, trigger that I had to switch the business to be in the US, it was when I received a grant that was from a US grantor and the US grantor was no other than Amazon.

Wow. Excellent.

So I received, uh, a grant from Amazon. Total value was like $225,000.

Yeah.

Um, and yeah, they had a requirement for us to be in the US, uh, registered. So that's when I immediately was like, yes, there's no other way, we have to do this.

And so, so how did you— that's it, really. I'm really glad you're sharing your journey because there's a lot of other companies who think about this and they're wondering. So how did that— like, did you have to flip it, i.e., set up Set up a company in the US that became the HQ, and then the UK company became the subsidiary of that US company.

Yes, yes, yes. So I had to— all of the angel investors that had given money in the past, um, some of the VCs that were already in the US, they were happy with it. Um, but we had to, in essence, flip. Yeah, so change all of that, um, shares into the top co, which is now in the US.

Okay.

And these are some also like some of the learnings that probably I wish I had understood earlier because I recall having some early conversations with some global founders when I was— I told them that I was starting a business and then they— one of the questions they asked like, oh, you're registered in the US? And I was like, no, I registered in the UK. It's like, okay. And I didn't know this, but a lot of the global VCs prefer a US domicile. Because of our own tax incentives that we have in the U.S., whereas I was just thinking like I'm going to build a business in the U.K. because it's where the market is that I'm targeting, and that is where I'm living at the moment. Even though I have all this, my background is also in the U.S., I was very keen on starting everything and rolling a business into the U.K., and I then found that there's still an interest in for businesses to be registered in the U.S. and the U.K. European investors are more lenient with that. So they say, like, oh, if you're registered in the US, that's fine, we can still invest. Um, but some, like for example for Amazon in particular, um, for the grantors, um, they, um, they had a requirement. So yeah. Now that's—

and it's super learning. And I know that also though, when you set up in the US, costs are incurred immediately. I remember because I, I was looking at one time saying, Yeah, I want to raise funding. You want to do it in the US? I'm like, yeah, let's go. And then like my lawyers are like, Anne, as soon as you register in the US, the IRS literally will start giving you a bill. You will have to start paying taxes. I said, are you serious? And they said, oh yeah. I'm like, okay, not setting up in the US, not now, you know.

Yeah.

You know, I think these are some of the things you need to learn before you— you don't make a decision just like that. Really do your homework a lot more. What would you say about that? Jess?

Yeah, I think like for me it was, uh, slightly different because, um, I have, uh, or I have had a US domicile.

Right.

And I'm an American citizen. Um, so I'm like already registered, everything, um, is done in the system. Um, but yeah, that, that is something that has to be researched. And honestly, if, if I were to do it all over again, I think I, I am still like, my heart is in, um, in Europe and in the UK. I would wish that there were more funding opportunities in this part of the world that were more open to this earlier stage of businesses.

Yeah.

Because I feel like there's a gap. I feel like the earlier stage investments, the more daring, the more risk that these countries are incurring happens from the US.

Yeah.

And of course, they're a larger market. They have larger underwritings that they can do for their investments. US investees. But in the UK and in Europe, it's more— that's why they're asking these questions about like, well, what have you accomplished so far? What are your metrics? Like in these 3 weeks since we— or like 3 months since we have spoken, what have you accomplished since then? So they're very much as to like, can you show progress? And can you show— if not, we're not going to invest in you. Whereas in the US, it's more about, you know, like, tell me where you want to go. Where do you want to be next year?

Um, how—

what are the team members that you're thinking of hiring, you know, for your project to, to be successful? So it's a different style of conversation. But I do wish that the UK and the European environment were more open to those earlier stages.

Okay, so, and in order to kind of close off the conversation on the funding round, so in general, so you said that you got about $200K from angels, $200K $25K from Amazon. And then VC land, what, what was that filler? So that— and what was your total round so far?

So, so far I've had a bit over $500K. So the VCs, uh, put in $100K as well.

Okay. And so you'd be what? Would you consider yourself pre-seed or seed?

So what we are looking to do in the future is raise a seed round. Um, I think like the pre-seed to this stage has been filled. Um, but yeah, it probably will be more of a seed round.

Yeah, yeah, I asked simply because, as you know, depending on the sector in the country, the definition of what constitutes a pre-seed or a seed round is very different according to the geography and so on. But I'm glad, I'm glad that you're sharing the, the ups and downs. Like, what were the biggest challenges? And you say, look, you're being very diplomatic, I would say. You see, I wish in Europe it was better. What were some of the challenges and how did you overcome them when you were looking for angels and VCs in Europe?

Um, I felt, um, there was a particular, like, experience that I think, you know, I had with a really bad investor, um, who I was incredibly motivated by. But he told me at the beginning when I met him, he's like, um, I don't think, uh, I don't think your business is going to, like, go much of anywhere. Um, I don't think, um, you have thought of this and that. So it was all very much of like criticism to an earlier stage of business. And he started saying something like, oh, I don't know if you want to buy your business or invest in your business. And I was just kind of like, what?

Yeah, exactly.

So it was very, very detractive. And but at the same time, because I didn't know enough of, of this environment, I started thinking like, oh, maybe I need to evaluate things better, or maybe I need to like, you know, and I started thinking more, I took it as feedback as like, oh, I need to do something. I need to, to clean up, you know, like my presentation or metrics or whatnot. And then as time progressed and I started realizing, I was like, no, he's, he was just being an asshole. Yeah. So, you know, he was just being a difficult person, you know, for, No reasonable, you know, way. It's just like he just was being difficult. So I've learned that, um, it— over in, in the investing journey, there is not a clear path.

Mm-hmm.

There's not very much of like— there, there are guidance, you know, that accelerators provide.

Mm-hmm.

But There has not been something that is completely standardized because everyone, at the end of the day, they're individuals that are running their funds or, you know, VCs or, you know, angel groups. And individuals, you know, to some extent are flawed, you know, like you, you know, try to be the best that you can be all the time, you know, or at least some people do. But some others, you know, they just treat it as like, oh, you're just an object, you know, like your business is just an object that I see as like a revenue generating machine. And if I don't see that or a glimpse or get a glimpse of that, that's very strong, then you're going to be out.

Hmm.

So it's a very difficult environment. So that's what I learned. So it's, there's no standardization. People may have some difficult attitudes, you know, particularly when you're trying to like go and put your name out there. But in the long run, you have to be able to discern as to like, oh, I don't want to work with that type of investor. You know, that's not the type of investors that I actually want to have on my cap table. Because I think like founders also need to be in the know that they have a choice.

Yeah.

It's not that the, the investors only are choosing them. No, like the founders themselves have a choice. And that didn't come to me until like some time, but at the beginning I was just kind of like, oh, I need to, I need to get them to like, like me, you know, to some extent. But that is not the case. The case is like, you are the one who chooses because you are providing a piece of your business to somebody else. Um, and you, all of the work and effort that you have given, you need the right people for the long journey. Um, and it cannot be for something just because they're going to offer you money, you know, for, X amount, you know. The— it's really up to the founder, I feel like, to be able to choose.

I think that's such vital advice. And, and I like the way you say that you need the right people for the journey. So as you say, it— I—

we—

people say the, the phrase smart money, you need to have smart money. But yeah, what does that mean? First of all, what you're— what you've talked about is like you You clearly said you need to find the right partners, the right investors with the similar values and vision of where you want to go. You know, you want to co-create this and build this together with their help. It's not a just take my— take their money and run kind of thing, you know. And it's, it's— I love— it's refreshing the way you tell this story because there has been a lot of, of challenge in what you've said. And you are very resilient, as you say. You have a hell of a lot of grit and you just keep coming back for more. And you're like, oh yeah, you just watch me. I'm going to prove you all wrong. It's wonderful. Um, and what other tips would you have to those women founders who are listening and say, okay, now that— now you have the benefit of hindsight of several years, 6 years in your pocket, okay, and say, right, if I knew, if I knew then what I know now, what would be the key tips you'd give to women founders who are starting out on this funding journey?

So I would say, if it were me back then, I would say understand your market very well.

Mm-hmm.

Understand, you know, the space that you're operating in.

Mm-hmm.

Understand whether you want to be in one area or the other. So like, if you want to be in the UK or in Europe or in the US, but think about it in the long haul. So like, what's going to be beneficial to you over the long haul? You know, some businesses are very geocentric, so perhaps it doesn't make sense for them to be a US-based business.

Yeah.

Or maybe if they have a goal to be, you know, a global entity, it's like, okay, how does that look like, you know, over the long— over the next, you know, 5 to 10 years? Like, would I have to make legal changes, you know, across the way?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I would say, like, there are a lot of nos. I started thinking about entrepreneurial business as if it was an artist's business. Artists get rejection all of the time. They get harsh criticism, whether it is an actor or a singer or even a designer. They get— they have to put their work out there time and time and time again. And oftentimes they get rejected until there is one, you know, time that they don't. And I started seeing myself as like, well, anything that is a rejection shouldn't be taken personally whatsoever.

Mm-hmm.

So I remember those days when I speaking with that investor, I was taking things a little bit personally. It's like, oh, maybe I need to prove something. But I quickly realized that, no, it's just, you know, and you have to define your own values. I think like, I've learned so much about myself in this journey. If anything, I've, I've learned more about how I operate with others. And what are my, my set of strengths and weaknesses, because you encounter them through this journey. So know that you, you have to have the flexibility to, to change, to leave some buffer room to understand yourself. And, and from there, grow.

I love such wisdom. I love it. I love it. I, I— that's beautiful what you just said. Like, you need some flexibility to change, you need buffer room to understand yourself, and room to grow as well. I love that. I think that's really, really solid advice. And what would you say would be your tips to investors who are listening to you and say, okay, from the woman founder perspective who's been through, through the first phase of this funding journey, what tips to them as to what they can maybe do differently or do more of?

There is so much. I feel like you could write articles and articles on this.

And you do, and you write very good articles on LinkedIn. It's very thoughtful.

Yeah, yeah. So I feel like, um, there's a couple of things that I wish investors would understand. So it's stage-based development. So you have to understand the stage that the business is in, um, without imposing what you think that where, where the business is making those assumptions at first.

Yeah.

So you need to, you know, ground yourself and say like, well, I think my assumption is that they are in this stage, but in reality, they are in X stage. So being open to that, I think like they need to move away from making so many assumptions. I feel like, they don't ask as many questions as they ought to some of investors. So I would say like, if you're interested, be— get better at asking questions. So spend a longer amount of time before you go into those meetings and thinking, what are the questions that I need to get answered here? Or that give me a better chance to understanding the founder and the business?

Mm-hmm.

Instead instead of coming in with cookie-cutter questions. Oh my God.

Oh, I just want to say that's brilliant. I'm so glad you're saying it. I'm— it so needs to be said, Jessica. That's why I'm— I had to pause you there. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt your flow of thought, but it's so wise. So wise. Because of this pattern recognition bullshit— excuse me, I'm calling it out— you know, they do— a lot of investors tend to do— they, they go about it as if they know it all, they've seen it all, and therefore they just say, oh, I saw a little bit like that somewhere else, so it's going to be the same thing. But it, but you're a different person with a different context and with a different life.

Exactly.

And so you can't— yeah, proper.

And they have to, they have to recognize that. Yeah, they have to recognize that even though they have the pattern or experience from, you know, oh, I've reviewed, you know, I know, like 500 other fintechs and they're not like, you know, like they're, they're similar but not quite. You cannot bring, you know, the same assessment that you did for another startup to this one, you know, to the one that you have in front of you. So yeah, they have to become better assessors as a whole. And they have to also be more empathetic, be more empathetic that the journey is tough. So, you know, whenever they're handling— we're providing some criticism or feedback, which is part of our job, they have to do this all the time.

Mm-hmm.

You know, don't don't be mean about it.

Yeah, there's no need for it.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's it's so funny because I remember I had an in I had a meeting. I've got the interview. It wasn't an interview, but I felt like it was an interview with an investor. And you know, he grilled me and what we do. Da da da da da da. And then he was like, I just left feeling kind of very deflated as well because. Because I don't think they really understood what I'm doing, why I'm doing it, that I'm in it for the long haul. And like you say, they may be expecting XYZ as far as traction is concerned, and it doesn't exactly meet what they think because whatever. That's the first thing. And I remember being very dejected because they were grilling me on— I felt like they were testing me on who I knew in the French ecosystem, in particular, in the funding ecosystem. And to be honest, I don't know all the VCs or whatever in the French ecosystem. I live here, but I work globally, and I'd be more apt to say, well, I can tell you a lot more in a broader sense on different geographies, not all the key people in France. If you're going to grill me on that, you know France, good on you, but don't be kind of saying, like, poo-pooing my experience because it's different to yours, which is what you're saying. We're both saying the same thing, and I just, I just kind Kind of came out of there feeling a little bit deflated as well, like you did.

You kind of go, oh, you know, is what we're doing right?

Da da da da da. And then you just kind of dust yourself off the next day and say, okay, back at it. Like you know, it it does take a bit of it takes humility as well on the side of the entrepreneur to say don't take it personally. It's so easy to say and it's harder to do, isn't it? Like what would you say to the founder? Like just on that.

Yes, yeah, yes, absolutely. So I think like that is the reason why I think founders really need to know themselves, you know, in this journey, and know where their thresholds are and what their limits are and what's a, what's a, you know, a boundary for them. Because if you don't know that, you're going to be as malleable and as swayed and moving from one side to the other. And you think you're getting a yes, but they're not giving you a Term sheet, you know, you're going to get like twisted, you know, in terms of like how, how, how you are as a person, and you're being pulled from each side because of, you know, they're being nice, but they're, you know, you're trying to understand what the other part is. But if you understand yourself, you know, then better. I am now at the point where I am setting the boundaries and the rules. So I say to investors, I'm looking to raise this amount by X date. If I'm not going to fulfill that amount by this date, then I will do this X, Y, and Z. You know, like, it's not up to them. It's not up to them to determine the timeline. It's not up to them to, um, be like, oh, well, maybe it's like, no, if it's— if you don't— if you're not there during the timeline, then you're out.

So yeah, I love it, I love it. And that's— ah, I'm so glad that you're saying that because people need to hear it. And that's the, that's the gift of experience, that you've walked down the path and now you're like able to say X number of years down the road, no, I know who I am, I know what I want, I know the type of people I want, I know my values and my ethics. I want you to circle back before we close out this conversation to tell Tell our listeners about ethics and AI, because you are building with AI into Monad, and I think that's very important. Like, what is your— what are your views on, on using AI as, as you build out the product? And, and yeah.

So again, I had a very good understanding of ethics from working at the Associated Press, where there's like an ethical review for everything, um, before you actually publish a news or publish like photos, there's, there's an ethical committee that reviews items. And, um, and we had, uh, principles to uphold. Um, when it comes to data and AI, I first started, um, associating myself with, um, industries, industry groups that are just focused on that. So in the UK, it's, uh, Open Data Institute. Um, there's also the Alan Turing Institute.

dude.

I spoke with both of them and I told them like, hey, I'm looking to do this. Is there something? Then I started understanding, yeah, there's like this data ethics framework that you can use to model your data. Or there's this AI now, now that there's more items in AI and now there's like, oh, there's like this AI ethics framework that you can use. So it's taking, taking from the experts, you know, the knowledge that they have to be able to implement the resources back into your And that's how I was able to develop some more ethics into the business as a whole. So it's going through like a review period for us to understand how we're managing, handling AI, how we're handling data as a whole. What are the environments where we are testing, even analyzing, you know, like you have to go into the T&Cs for like if we're using third-party vendors.

Yeah.

What are they upholding themselves into? Are they sharing the data with others? If not, can we add a clause just to our agreement to make sure that, you know, the data is not shared inappropriately with other parties? So yeah, so it was a lot of that. And then I started working with a legal firm in London. who are great. And I think like founders, if you want to work with a legal firm and somehow have some funds to do it, because I spent some funds to do that, um, go for that. And my— the one that I worked with was Mishkan de Reya, um, and they're excellent. Mishkan de Reya.

Okay, Mishkan de Reya. You'll give us the— give us the link so we can put it in the show notes. Okay.

Yes, they're, they're excellent. I— this is one of the law firms that I've worked with for some time. And literally, it's like, hey, I was posting the questions, like, we could go down this data path or this other data path. How do you see the future down the road? Because we also wanted to make sure that we're future-proofing our technology.

Mm-hmm.

And I had some consultations with them for us to assess, you know, multiple paths that we could go into. We're like, oh, well, you can take this, it's gonna take longer, or, you know, here's how we can help you in developing this. So yeah, I, I would say go to the experts, you know, that are particularly working legal, excellent. If they're leading an industry organization on ethics, excellent. Take from the resources that have available, have better conversations, and then start implementing.

I love it, I love it. Um, and you are very much a, a go-getter, a doer. What's next for Monad, Jessica? We've gone through the past, how you got here, your key steps so far, but what's coming next? What are your hopes?

So what's coming next, we are launching a couple of things. So we're currently web-based, we will be launching an app app later on this year, which is exciting. It's in the works at the moment. We are adding additional functionality. We are looking to be more impactful. So we care not just about data and ethics and AI and ethics, but we also care about the environment. So we're going to be making some strides into that direction that have visibility in the near future. And we are also looking for expansion. So I'm currently expanding our commercial opportunities, possibly in the US market, to see how we can best target those demographics in the US who are also highly mobile, who are also keen on understanding their digital footprint. And that is, that is part of our roadmap.

So exciting. And listen, I want to wrap this up by saying, uh, we are super proud. You happen to be the winner of the fintech category of the Global Investor Summit, uh, pitch competition that we had this year for 2024. And congratulations, we're so thrilled. I mean, you rose above the rest. And as I was saying to you in our prep call for this, It was, you know, all thanks to your hard work and grit, and the jury were just wowed by what you've achieved so far and where you're going. So congratulations on that, and we're super proud of you, just to say that.

Um, yeah, thank you.

What would be your parting message to the audience? What would you like to leave with our listeners?

Um, stay grounded. So I would I think for founders particularly, stay grounded. People will tell you 1,000 things of how your business should be, how, what direction you should go, where, how to grow. But as long as you stay grounded and you know your market and you know your audience, then you can build from there.

I love it. Thank you so much for being with us today, Jessica, and for sharing your journey and Monad's journey. And I know that it's going to go bigger, brighter. I'm super excited for everything that you've been talking about, about the AI, the ethics, the app, um, the links to the environment and all that wonderful expansion. So I'm giving you an open invitation here to say, hey, in X number of months or time, I'd love to have you back so you can tell us what happened, what happened next.

Yeah.

Because I know you're going to go very far. So thank you so much for being with us, Jessica. It's been an absolute pleasure, and, um, I wish you the very best for the next steps on your journey, and I know they're going to be great.

Yeah, thank you. And, uh, yeah, and it's great to see this platform emerge as well and grow. So that's, that's also great to see from my perspective. So yeah, yeah. Well, thank you to you.

Thank you, Jessica.

Yeah.