🎙️ EP61: 100 Women, One Mission: Dr. Anino Emuwa on Power and Access | InvestHer Podcast

Hi there. Welcome or welcome back to InvestHer Podcast. I'm Anne Ravanona, your host and funding friend, and I'm so glad you're here. InvestHer Podcast exists for one reason: to share the real, unfiltered stories of funded women founders, investors, and ecosystem changemakers from around the world, and to give them the visibility and airtime they deserve. Because here's what we know: women are building extraordinary businesses. And yet their stories are still too often missing from the conversation. We're here to change that. Every episode, I sit down with someone who's in the trenches of building, funding, or backing women-founded ventures, and we talk about the real stuff— the pivots, the rejections, the fundraising lessons nobody tells you about, and the wins, because there are plenty of those too. Now, I can't wait for you to hear this. Let's dive in. For decades, Finance and leadership have spoken a language that quietly sidelines women while depending on their talent and labor to function. Dr. Anino Emuwa has spent her career rewriting that script. Trained in corporate and investment banking at Citibank with a doctorate on overcoming barriers to finance for entrepreneurs, she now leads Avandis Consulting and founded 100 Women at Davos, a global community pushing women into the rooms where money, policy, and power converge. From Lagos to London to Lyon, she's seen the same patterns and the levers that actually move them. Let's step inside her world and unpack what it really takes to shift capital, leadership, and opportunity toward women at scale. Today, I am absolutely thrilled to have with me Anino Emuwa from Avantis Consulting and also the founder of 100 Women at Davos. How are you, Anino?

Hi, Anne, and thank you very much, um, having me on your podcast. I'm very fine, thank you. We are just kicked off September reset and it's been incredibly busy. We've just come back from one conference and heading to another next week.

Amazing. So, okay, as we get started here, I'd like to kind of warm you and everybody, the audience, up, if you will, every— all our listeners, just so we get to know you a little bit better, um, Anino, because you are prolific. You have so many hats. I mentioned that in our, in our conversation before we started. You know, you're a woman of many things and many, many paths, of many areas of expertise. So can you just first start off by telling us a little bit about yourself and your journey to where you are, how you've become who you are today?

Thank you, Anne. And it probably hasn't been linear, but there is a thread that runs through it all. And, you know, when I started, you know, right from university, studied economics, I was clear from the age of 16 what I wanted to do, and that was going into banking. into corporate investment banking and looking at funding of organizations or businesses. I was just somehow fascinated about how finance and funding was so critical to businesses, and yet it's one of those resources you don't physically see.

Mm.

And, you know, and I had a background in mathematics, and I think maybe it was the numbers thing that kept me interested, because it certainly wasn't in my family with a mother a lawyer and a father an engineer, right? It wasn't— there was no banking there. And I went to university, studied that, Uh, started working with Citibank into corporate bank. Absolutely loved it, loved it at a young age. Loan portfolios, millions of dollars. Honestly, this was how many decades ago? So when you're talking about, you know, $20, $30 million decades ago, you can imagine the value today.

Mhm.

But, you know, um, I had left the UK where I was studying, and then I was back in my home country in Nigeria, and, um, it suddenly occurred to me, or you know, eventually occurred to me in a sense that, um, there was— there were a lot of entrepreneurial gaps, you know, that I could see around me. And I wondered why this was happening. And I began to— I began to think that here I am in a position where at a very young, very young age, I was responsible for writing credits for bigger businesses. And the question that now came into my mind is, what about the smaller businesses? Because if we don't develop them, then how are our economies going to develop? And I, after several years, I had lived in, you know, several African countries, and I still found the same things, those barriers to access to finance. And on the side, I was an independent consultant, but on the side I was working with female-led businesses. I was just fascinated, um, just, I just was.

And so, pause, pause, pause. But what made you fascinated by female-led businesses? Because you could have chosen to help small businesses in general, because I always love to understand your passion, the fire, and where that comes from.

Oh, and this is so important. It's an important question, and I wish I could completely answer it. And the reason I say so is as follows: because after 3 years in corporate banking, I went into to do my MBA, right, which is a natural thing if you want in those days, right, if you want to progress. And that was in the plan. And, um, for some reason, I chose a lot of topics in entrepreneurship because I'd started developing an interest in entrepreneurship myself. And I had some research studies to do, some case studies to do, and they happened to be female entrepreneurs. So I think in terms of research, that's where it started from. But it was never a gender thing in the way it was recorded. It was just, you know, this happened to women entrepreneurs who are women, if that made sense, right? And I think that that sort of carried through without realizing it after I left the banking world. And so my work was to do with entrepreneurship, or so I felt. But I was— and I think it's just a sort of affinity, really, right? I think it really is an affinity with other women that made me interested. But one thing that I always say is that, you know, I mean, my thesis, my doctorate eventually, which is about overcoming finance to entrepreneurs, you know, when I look at that, I think, how come I wrote a whole thesis over how many years and there isn't even a gender component? So it sort of tells you how in my work, the official part of it and all of that, right, you didn't think about it on the gender side, but on the practical side I did. So there you go.

That's fascinating. I love it. So I, I love how— and, and that's interesting because in a lot of origin stories, it, it is true that the hero, or in our case the heroine, fall, you know, stumbles upon the thing that then becomes their, their Holy Grail, their guiding light, their North Star. And we are very glad that you've decided to focus and continue to help female founders, women founders. So tell us more then how you morphed. You said that you were doing consulting on the side. So tell us more about your consulting side of the business. What do you do and who do you serve?

Yes. And in fact, you know, after I finished completing my doctorate, my intention was to act as a bridge between, you know, entrepreneurs and the entrepreneurship world and the banks. Right. So that was actually where my focus was. Um, bear in mind that on the side I got more and more interested in, um, in women. And so I was actually— I would— I was running a seminar, and this was well over 30 years ago, for female entrepreneurs. But it was always a bit on the side, informal, in the sense that, you know, it wasn't supposed to be a revenue-generating thing whilst my work with leadership and organizations and, you know, all of that was happening. But somehow it didn't go away.

I love it.

It didn't go away, and it actually grew and grew because— but you see, when you're doing something that has to do with passion and something that is mission and purpose driven, unlike, um, in setting up a business, right, where— I mean, of course it can be mission driven, but you know, the structure, you have— you structure it in a certain way. So that was organically growing.

Mm.

And then you, you say logically that's organic, but is it really? How does that translate into this business thing. And that is why it just grew organically over time and in some form or fashion ended up, you know, where I am today. Because the need was there, um, the purpose was important, and to me it was just important to continue doing that and continue doing more and to make sure the business, um, would fit around the mission rather than saying that, look, it's not going to happen.

And so where— so because you've such a varied background, so where did you start that work, in Nigeria and in African countries, or Um, in France or the UK? Because you, you are a well-traveled lady and you work on different continents.

It really was all— it first started many years ago in the UK where I was, right? Then when I moved back home, um, to Nigeria, it continued there. I then lived in several African countries and that continued. I then came to France and that continued. So literally, this was— I mean, you saw the same thing. It was— it didn't matter where you were in the world, or at least in the European countries I was and in the African countries. And each and every country, I still found the same need of female entrepreneurs needing finance and needing support. And it's just, I mean, and that's why my work is global because it's just truly a universal issue.

Right back at you, sister. That's what I'll say, right back at you. So, okay, so tell us now, bring us on the journey to what are the kind of services that you offer in the consulting practice and how do you support women entrepreneurs in access to finance or other entities who work with women entrepreneurs? entrepreneurs?

Okay, now our focus really is— our big mission is advancing women's leadership. So it has expanded right from just entrepreneurship but also into the corporate world. So we do have pillars of corporate, um, entrepreneurship, and then we have, um, uh, shall I say, cross-cutting themes which are sustainability and also emerging technologies, because we find that that's where you know, there are gaps. So that's how our work is focused now. But in terms of advancing women's leadership, very often you see the focus on women themselves, which is important, right? And especially even when you look at the finance side. But the reality is that the world around is not geared towards the support it should. So for us, it's important that we actually work on that side.

Yes.

So that's where the policy and advocacy comes up. Policy in 2 ways, with a big P, which is in governments and, you know, institutions, right? And even whether it's the UN, et cetera. So that's policy, but also within organizations. So that is where we do our work on strategy and working with organizations, right? And we work because it's policy and strategy is right from the top, right? So leadership is a place that, that is a niche that we've chosen. It's a hard niche, it's a tough niche, but for us, that's where we feel that, you know, the impact will be most. So that's working with organizations at board level, and also at executive level, really. That's where our focus is. Additionally, and so for example, one of the boards I'm on, in addition to that, you know, I lead the task force on inclusive impact, and that is really, you know, all how can we make sure we have more women in certain roles, etc., and creating impact for the organizations. And that, in that particular role, that's more an industry-wide thing than just, you know, one organization.

And so, so now walk us through the journey to how, how you created Women at Davos. So how, how did that start and, and how has it morphed over the many years since 2019?

Yes, yes. And that's the thing, you know, again, when it's something that has to do with, um, sort of, um, purpose, right? And, and it sometimes just, you know, starts organically in that sense. And literally that's what happened. Um, I had had the an immense, you know, honor to attend the World Economic Forum a couple of times. And of course, you know, at leadership level, you don't have, you know, very many women. It's normal. But when I say it's normal, it's a normal reflection of what's happening, right? But it's not normal in the sense that things need to change. And I was struck by, you know, the lack of women there. And I must say that at the World Economic Forum, proportion of women that attend is much higher than the proportion of women in leadership. Well, yes, so it's up to about over 20% and up to 24%, whereas in the top leadership at the topmost level, it's probably 5% to 7%.

Yeah.

But even at that, it's still not enough. And I thought, you know, um, so I'm here, I'm sort of looking for the women, and where are they, and why aren't they there? Et cetera. And then I thought to myself that, you know, turn it around, not so much where are they, but who are they? And, you know, how can getting involved with them sort of create more impact, bring more visibility? And that is what will probably help in having more women come to Davos.

Yes.

So at the beginning, right at the first, the first time it was actually in the World Economic Forum, but we had a WhatsApp group. And then people started asking, but we're in Davos but not in the forum, how can we meet?

Mm-hmm.

And so it just, next thing we became, from Women at the World Economic Forum, Women at WEF, we became Women at Davos. And I think it was the following year or later that year, I can't remember when, when we sort of realized that it was, we'd reached a milestone. So from the first 20, 25 women here, we were what, 100? And that's when the 100 came in and that's when we became properly formalized, we became a brand and, you know, and all of that trademarked and etc.

And so, so what— tell us more about the work that you do at 100 Women in Davos and how can women become— be one of those women in Davos? How can they join you?

The first thing is just to say the 100 is just a milestone.

So yes, there's now more.

So there's many, many more. And, you know, we are in the thousands. What it is, 2 things. We started— that was the beginning. So we started from Davos, right? So it was bring— it was access and visibility because at leadership level, when look at where decisions are being made and when people— because at leadership level, discussions happen in rooms, right? And then decisions come afterwards.

Yes.

And that part is very, very important, right? And so what we did was to actually make sure and have women in those rooms. So we work with and collaborate with organizations, event organizers who know the caliber of women who are there. And sometimes, you know, to be honest, for them, it's them, they don't know where to start. You know, where do we find the women? Right? So we say, here are the women. So we work on that access and visibility in the first instance, right? So that women are visible and there's access. We work as a network, which means that women get support, right? Because women always do well when we have support. So those are 2 things. But then also, we also are now really post-Davos. So right now, this month, we will be at the UN General Assembly with lots of side events.

Mm-hmm.

So we would host things like our Table for Change, which are smaller groupings of changemakers and guests, you know, so community, community members and guests, right, on different topics. So it could be on sustainability, it could be on women's leadership, it could be on AI emerging technology, it could be on, on very many topics. So we do that. So we do have those kinds of meetings. We host events. We actually partner with event organizers. So for example, we've just come back from Geneva from the Luxury Innovation Summit, and we created a panel which is all about how women are driving change in that industry as well as AI and innovation. And it was an amazing panel of top women leaders. And so you have women who are visible, who are speaking on certain topics, and who are showing by demonstrating by their actions how important it is to have women in innovation, in sustainability, and also understand the demographic that is really changing when it comes to women as well. So those are a lot of things we do. So there's access and visibility to events and things. We also partner with organizations. We also work together, you know, in different ways. We are signed up with the UN Women Action Commitment Makers on women's leadership and technology for equality. So we act on several fronts within networks, but also with collaborating with organizations and event organizers.

So is it a membership, Annina? So like, we will be— for all of you listening and watching, we will of course be adding links to Annina's wonderful resources and organization. So tell us a bit more about the membership. How does that work?

Okay. Now, how we started was very simply is, is if you had— if you're a woman who was in Davos or had been to Davos, you are free to join us. We'd love to have you. So that's a wider community. So just going onto our social media pages and just sending— I mean, normally through the DMs, through the messages, And very often we keep them out there. Just shoot us a message, send us an email, look at the link in our bio, it's all there. And there's just so many ways to access us through social media. And then we sort of— then you join the community. But we do have an interest form. As we said, it is a requirement that you've been to Davos. And the reason was very simple, because we are purpose-driven. And having been there, people really understand the reason for our existence. Which is basically working collectively to make change. At the same time, you're running your business or leading your organization, but there's also a purpose in it as well. Now, now that we have moved into other summits in different countries and different places, there's also access. So right now we've already put out on social media that we're going to be at the UN General Assembly. People are writing into us, we are including them into our community groups. And so that's how it works. So that's the wider community. But we do have a paid membership. which is, you know, a selected paid membership. And, you know, that also is side by side. So women who are interested, once a year, we are delighted to invite them to apply if they want to join the paid membership group as well.

Great. Fantastic. And then tell us, you recently did your TEDx talk. How did that go for you? How was that experience? Because I know for me what it was like, but I want to know what was it for you?

Well, you know, to be honest, I only just recently posted it. It actually And I'm not even sure why, because it was done in 2023. But, you know, the process of the editing and putting it on takes a while.

Yes.

So I think that they didn't— it didn't really come out until 2024, right?

Yeah.

And then so, and, but snippets had gone out. But this time I thought, look, the thing hasn't been posted. And I, and this is what— and I did that. Really, it was really to encourage other, other, other women to actually— because there's a search going on now, a global search, and other for TED Talks. And well, it's always something that, you know, if you're speaking on a topic and all of that, it's a wonderful platform and it's been one of those things that wouldn't it be wonderful. But Anne, honestly, this is such a strange story. I just literally just got an email in my inbox saying, and you know, we have TED Talks in Athens, TEDx Athens, I would like to invite you to join us. It was like that. I didn't look for it. And I remember at the time it was such a crazily busy time, but this was something I would like to do. So of course the answer was going to be yes, but it was going to be, how is this going to happen? But TEDxAthens is one of those that is, and they're part of this search actually as well right now, and they are absolutely wonderful. So in any case, they flew me out there. But apart from that, even with my travels, I was in New York, I came back to France, I had a coach and I also had a handler, and so they structured the training and all of that, which was done mainly online. And then when I came, when I arrived in Athens, I think literally from that night it was almost like a day and a half of rehearsal training.

Yes.

Before I went on stage. So it was really very structured in that way. What I loved about it, you know, really, and This was a stage of— there were 3,000 people, right? So this was a huge stage. But, um, what I loved about it was, apart from the whole atmosphere and, you know, the, you know, all the other speakers who were there and TEDxAthens itself, was it was a way of focusing your thoughts. And I think it has really helped me. My research helped me in how to be authentic, to get real information, and to be clear about your information. Um, this helped me in terms of communicating and all of that in a succinct way, even in writing as well, so that your message gets across clearly. So it's wonderful for the TED Talk and to have the message you want out there, but it's also wonderful for you individually as, um, as a training. And by the time you get on stage, you know, with all of that, I'm telling you that there is no— I mean, okay, yes, of course, like you, you know, um, you know, when you're speaking, people think that there's no stage fright, you know, and all of that. But the training was great that you were really there to deliver what your message was to an audience that was there and who really wanted to hear this message.

Yes, and that resonates so much with me. I had a similar experience. I did it at Barcelona, so it was TEDxBarcelonaWomen in 2015. All the things you described, you know, coaches and handlers and all that good stuff. But for me, it was also the camaraderie with the other speakers because And we were all uplifting each other up. You know, some people were much more stressed. Like you, I'm a seasoned speaker, but there's something different about doing a TEDx, isn't there? Because, you know, it is, as you exactly rightly said, it's like you have an important message you want to get, but to concentrate it down into a format that's going to be easily accessible to a widest audience possible, not to the more, um, maybe structured audiences that we tend to have, or more niche audiences But for me, the hard part was having to kind of, let's say, learn it off by heart. Or yeah, I hated that part because I never do that. I have to whatever, go by the— but anyway, the whole point is that it is an incredible experience. I wanted you to bring it up because I'm glad that you said there is an international call. Like you, I was invited by somebody who knew me, had seen me, and said, yes, we'd like you to be part of it. So For those, there is also, I think, an application form, isn't there, for people if they want to do a TEDx? I think there is a form online, and if not, concentrate, just contact organizers. This is our call. Contact organizers of the TEDxes, no matter where it is, because, you know, and you can get asked to do several. You know, I was asked to do another one another time, and I couldn't do it for medical reasons, but it It is about— for me, it was such a challenge just for myself. It's one of those things that I've worked so hard on to prepare it, to deliver it, to be of service to the message, which I always am. But it was just— I found it was a meaty challenge, and I enjoyed it, but it was like 6 months of preparation for 15 minutes on stage, and I'm not exaggerating. And I wasn't used to that. I usually I can prepare a speech in an hour or 2, and I don't even need to practice this. I just prepare my slides, I get up, and I do it. It's easy because I'm passionate. I know it. I've researched it like you, right? But this was something different. So it's just to say I'm glad that you, that you're sharing that experience, and also for the call so that more women— we need more women out on the TEDx and in the TED Talk circuit for, again, to be showcasing women's leadership.

No, this is absolutely, absolutely right. It's really important. And, you know, when I shared a snippet from my TED Talk, it was actually to talk about the call for applications as well.

Yeah.

So you're right, it's actually out there. If you go onto the site, it's there. Anyone who's listening soon, because it's already started, is if you go onto, just Google my name and the TED Talk, you'll see it come up, right? And all the links are there. They're happening, I think, in several cities, like maybe 8 cities or 6 or 8 cities. I think 2 have been done already, so, um, but they're starting, they've already started from September, so, uh, the time, the time is now. Uh, but you're absolutely right in terms of concentrating down to 15 minutes. But I think why that is hard, but that was important because that message, you want people to listen to that message, right? And I think that very often people look at the TED Talk or TEDx Talk, in my case, almost like a trophy.

Yeah.

And forget about the message.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's like, what message do you want to share?

Exactly.

So that's the first thing, is what message do you want to share, and then what's the platform for sharing that message?

Exactly. Real quick, Anne here. InvestHer Summit 2026 is coming to Paris in October, connecting global scaling women entrepreneurs with investors, corporates, and others to scale faster. Save 20% with early bird tickets until the end of July. Join us at investhersummit.com. That's investhersummit.com. So let's now zoom back in. I want you to put on your funding hat and your funding expertise hat. Now, you've done a PhD in access to funding and on small businesses, and then in particular for women-owned businesses. So As you've studied this topic and spoken to hundreds of women entrepreneurs across the world, what do you see as the key barriers or the key challenges even today for women entrepreneurs when it comes to looking for funding?

You know, it is horrific when you look at the numbers, right? And if we look at VC funding, and you all know you've written about this, you know, in detail, And last year it was less than 2% of venture capital funding went to female-led businesses. So that is where we're starting from as well. And so there are systemic issues. One, when we look at VC funding, which is very specific, if we look at where it started from, from Silicon Valley, it had to do with tech. So already when you look at female entrepreneurs, right, relatively, relative to their male peers, it was literally much smaller already, right? So you then grow a culture that resembles that kind of community origins, and the thing, it becomes self-perpetuating. So if already you didn't have many women. But when that culture— when you grow a sector based on the existing culture, then it starts excluding women already. So that's the first thing in terms of the origins. And that model is being replicated in so many ways around the world. So it's carrying with it a DNA of exclusion already. So we move from just tech into whatever business sector it is. One, the whole funding, and even if you look at the Stanford model, it wasn't venture capital as an industry on its own. It was an industry that was embedded in laws. A government, government had, was a partner to it. The ecosystem had universities, universities. So you need a whole ecosystem, right, around it. And information is really critically important. And it works almost like like a club in a sense, because it's difficult for any entrepreneur to raise money anywhere. But because it was important, right, all those connections with investors, right, were part of the system. So if you're not part of that system, then how do you get to the knowledge and the information and the networks and access to market? So these are really some of the huge issues, right? Being part of that system, having access to partners, to networks, to investors, and then also the ways of doing things. There also becomes a kind of, you know, implicit bias sort of baked into it because the women don't look like the kinds of investors, right? All kinds of investing companies because they were— you had very few. So the likelihood is that you get rejected. And then women in many ways operate or present differently, right?

Yep.

Just in the same way as you have an apple and orange, they're both fruit, but they're just different, right? And but that understanding was also different. It, one, in terms of even among women as consumers, women as investors, women as funders, women as as entrepreneurs. And I think you would, would be aware of one of the Harvard studies that was done by an entrepreneur. I think that— I think she became a researcher and who was an entrepreneur and saw the barriers, right? And that had to do with just looking at how the pitching— when, when the women pitch, right? And it saw how when women pitched, the likelihood is that they were asked questions where they had to be defensive.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Whereas when men were asked questions, they were— this was their opportunity to shine. So women would ask questions about risk, for example, and say, you know, what would happen if this horrible thing happened and how are you preventing this? And of course you're going to start sounding defensive. Whereas men tended to be asked questions about the opportunity where they could say, this opportunity. So, you know, so you have it even at that level.

Mm-hmm.

Right, um, of, um, biases kicked into the system because that's how, um, it has worked over a certain decade. So breaking into that is important. But there's something though that I would also like to say is that we tend to focus a lot on the VC system, but if we look at entrepreneurship as a whole, only a small portion of entrepreneurship or entrepreneurs need VC funding because it's a very specific type of of, you know, it's a fast scale-up, etc., tech-enabled. And most entrepreneurship is not like that, right? And I think that focus also has to turn into the other kinds of funding, right, that entrepreneurs can have. And that even includes things like even at banks, right? I did my work on credit, right? So access to working capital finance, for example, fixed asset finance, etc. Investment is also important, but there are other channels of investment that are not necessarily VC.

Yes.

So for example, we have angel investors, for example, which are also important. So the issue is, is a huge issue, which that one statistic tells us, right? But I think that, you know, we also need to widen the focus outside of just simply the VC sector. My own personal feeling, or my own personal belief, is as follows. You know, when I was looking at barriers to finance for, entrepreneurs. In the UK in the '80s, I think, or '90s, I can't remember now, there was a report by the central bank that working with the banks, and it was run every year for, I think, 11 years, where the central bank or the Bank of England would get together banks, right, leaders from banks, and to address the whole problem of the shortage of finance to entrepreneurs. I think this was probably in either the Thatcher or post-Thatcher stage where it was clear that you needed to have the entrepreneurial economy was critical to the growth of UK's economy. And one of the research had shown that this was a major barrier and it went on every year until it showed that there was no systemic issue to do with entrepreneurial finance, right? What it did say, there's certain areas like, you know, certain areas, right? Or more, should I say, less resourced areas of the country may not have access to finance, but it wasn't, it was no longer a systemic issue. The point of this is that when policymakers decide that the issue shouldn't be left to markets, i.e., banks alone, if the government hadn't stepped in to work, it wouldn't have changed in that period. And they did this for 11 years. So mine is very simple, is when the governments actually not just realize, and they do realize, but actually step in to deal with this problem, it can change.

I agree with you 100%. And in fact, I like in the policy work I do as well, it's, it's what I believe most strongly is that to fix this funding gender gap, what we need to do, it is public-private partnerships. Like, it's a partnership between those public, the government, and the private capital. We've got— we need both. It cannot be— to fix the system, because it is systemic, we absolutely need both to work hand in hand, to learn how to play together, and to see the benefits for both sides. That when the government makes some tax, um, changes to the tax law which then offer business angels, for example, a better tax reduction when they invest in startups, we've seen, like, in the UK, the, um, SEI IS and the EIS tax reductions, that is, they have been huge in unlocking angel capital. And like, the UK is one of the best examples of the world in doing that. And I really wish that more governments would follow suit because, you know, now we have the Invest in Women Task Force that's followed on from many other initiatives before. So they're taking the funding women entrepreneurs much more seriously. And now, you know, putting, attributing £500 million towards that through funding funds that are going to invest in women and indirectly accelerators, etc., to support that. But it is for me public-private. It has to be both, both sides. And it's interesting bringing up the banks. I remember many years ago in about 2014, I spoke at the European Parliament and there was a lunch there on access to funding. There was a person from a bank and, you know, I asked the question, I said, said— I was very frank. Now, it was a private question. We said it privately. I said, at your bank, do women entrepreneurs get higher interest rates than male entrepreneurs? And she said yes. And she said, and that is systemic. Again, even down to that level, even though it is proven that women pay back loans much better and always like that, on a better rate than, than men, even at that level, even when it comes down to the interest rates on the business loans. So, and that was 2014, and I'm sure it's not any different now. So unfortunately, so there's still work to be done. And on your own funding journey for the work that you do at both Avandis and at Women at Davos, how did you fund— how do you fund your activities? What have you been doing on your side?

Yes, you know, because we started, you know, as I mentioned, it was a WhatsApp group. That's how we started, right?

Yeah.

So it was just always something we did on the side, and there was— and that's why it grew organically. We weren't really doing anything much, you know, because it was just every year— the plan was every year get the group together at Davos. So it was just dedicating a bit of time, a bit of resources to that, and not very much. But it— but when it— it— when, um, I think that when we had our first event, and simply— and it was another woman who invited us. I didn't know this lady, and literally, um, she just, um, approached me and said, we are having this event, why don't you come and bring, you know, invite women to this event? And we did that, and the invitations, when we put them out and invited people, within an hour everybody, they had gone. I didn't even realize. I didn't realize until somebody told me this, said, oh, what's happening to your tickets? Because of course And I said, oh, we've just gone online. And he said, no, no. And I said, yes. And we went and we checked and we found out. I went back to the— went back to the lady and she goes, well, look, turnout is usually 50%, right? So you, um, the tickets you had were at capacity, um, just like the numbers. So double it, right? It's not a problem because turnout will be 50%. So I did that and exactly the same thing happened.

Wow.

I went back to her, she said, go again. She goes, don't worry. And we did. Till today, a member of our inclusive leadership council who came to that event will still recount the story. When she walked into the room, there was no space.

Wow.

We were even— women were outside the door. We had women at the, you know, at the security saying, how do we get in? We knew then and then knew that this was just bigger than that. And so it was still, but how do you, I mean, it's how do you do that? So it was almost by trial and error, right? And just dedicating sort of a few resources here and there, but it wasn't gonna get anywhere until of course now we have our paid membership. We started last year, we've done 2 years now. You get some partners who help you, who, who, and, and that's how, that's how it happens. So again, as I said, it was because this was, I mean, with all my work consulting with entrepreneurship, with entrepreneurs, I would never, in fact, That's the other way to do it. You shouldn't be doing it that way. You have a business model, right? But this was the other way around. It was, there was a need and then we'll find out later how to make it sustainable, which is not easy. But I guess passion just, you know, really the need was there and it just, the solutions just came slowly over time.

I love it. So now, given your wealth of advice, what would you say would be your, your top dos and your top don'ts to women entrepreneurs looking for funding and using the different sources that you mentioned, that it's not all about a VC? And I'm very glad that you said that. So what would be your key tips? What are the key dos and the key don'ts when it comes to looking for funding?

Well, the first thing is, I would say, because there's this recognition, there are pools of funds, right? that women can access, right? And some of them even come through the government. So just look through all those websites and see the different grants. And the other thing is very often women think that, you know, grants are for not-for-profits. Not true. Grants sometimes even work together even with equity and all of that, right? And the beauty of some of these grants is not necessarily in the amount, they may be small, but the structure that gave it to you, first of all, it's almost like a stamp saying that, you know, Yes. You are, yes, Yes, and also they give you visibility and they do other things for you. So grants are a good thing, even if they're not very big, right? So look for grants as well is the first thing that I'd say. Look for organizations that are looking to support women entrepreneurs. Um, uh, I think, and I will find that, but I know there was a directory, um, set up. I'll find that, which is huge, right? And they did that annually, um, on, um, organizations that have inclusion or gender aspects, or gender in terms of their funding, right? Go through that. Funding is not something that is a side thing because you're looking at your product, how do you create or sell a product or service, how do you get customers, how do you hire. Funding is also one of those key things. And sometimes, you know, people would say, you know, say, oh, how can I do that in addition? If you consider that it as important as any of those other things as well. And the thing is not to give up.

Yeah. Yes.

To be tenacious about it.

Yes.

And this is what I need, and you just have to find— another thing importantly to every woman, female entrepreneur out there, is make sure you're part of a network that supports female entrepreneurs. Do not do it on your own.

Yes.

Information works through you know, those circles. You need to learn from people who have experience. And also very often people who are funding, right, they go through some of those networks as well. So you're missing out on information and support as well.

I love it. And any key don'ts? So you did say don't go it alone, that, that you've said very clearly. What else?

I think the don't I would say is that it's more of, um, not quite a don't, but to be clear and to understand the kind of financing you need.

Yes.

Um, I have been working with entrepreneurs, I one entrepreneur I worked with famously, and, um, where finance was the main thing and she needed finance. But when I went through the numbers and went through all she was doing, she didn't— finance wasn't what she, she needed first, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so we dealt with that aspect first. There was another one we dealt with, and she said she needed a short-term loan and this and that. And I said, no, you don't. We went through the numbers and I showed her how to, to get over that Yeah, so understanding also your finances is really critical and is really important. The type of finance is important, okay? And there's just so many stories. I remember another lady, I remember especially when they started off, and I said, look, when you start off, the first thing, right, you need to do is to make sure that all your cash, absolutely all your cash, goes through the bank.

Yes, yes.

Because there's a tendency to make payments, right, to suppliers, right, off cash, which was— which would be recorded, right, in your, in your, um, accounts, but not recorded through the bank. The bank didn't see all the cash going through. So that's the first thing. And so she did that from day one. And then the thing is, she says, look, I, I need— um, she was doing a fantastic business, but I need finance for A, B, C, and D, and I need— um, and I saw that what she was asking for, the way she was asking, it wasn't— that wasn't what she needed, was a working capital loan for imports for 90 Because that was her cycle well before the 90-day shoot payback. At the minute she was able to articulate and structure it and ask for it from the bank, she was able to get the money rather than saying I need a loan. So you need to understand what kind of finance you need, the term you need it for. It's not all about VC funding and financing. Look at other options, right? And also start early. Start when you don't— start looking for the money when you don't need it.

We don't need it. I know that's always the key advice we hear. But I think in reality, no matter what, you'll always find a lot of women entrepreneurs who are scrambling because we're just juggling so many balls in the air, apart from building the business, looking for funding, probably managing family or elderly parents or whatever it is. So we always have many things. So I love your very practical key tips. Um, so what would be your kind of parting messages, Annina, here to our listeners, both to those who fund women or don't yet? Let's start there and then to the women entrepreneurs themselves.

First of all, um, this is an important message to the ecosystem of investors, right? Um, the studies may be limited, but, um, the studies do show that investing in women, that women, that first of all, one, that, um, exit faster at a higher value. So, um, when it comes to the business case, for funding female entrepreneurs has been established by the data. So if you still have, you know, if you still have a resistance, the likelihood is not logic, it's not based on fact.

Yes.

It's based on a bias that has been built in that, you know, that's what you think, but that's not reality.

Yes.

In terms of creditors, that is even discredited. Women make excellent creditors. And in fact, you actually find that sometimes it's even difficult to even lend to women because they're so frightened of of, you know, this issue. So your best bet is actually to even lend to women. And yeah, so whether it's lending, whether it's equity, you're onto a good thing. So that's the first stage. So, um, fight back at that feeling, right? And, and, and look at that. The other thing is that if you look at it as an investor and this is an underfunded gap, that means opportunities actually for your return are even higher, right?

Yes.

You have, um, a of female-led businesses out there that could generate good returns for you. So if you want a better return on your portfolio, you better be looking at female-led businesses. So that's another one. And then just in terms of, even just in terms of our role in the world to make the world a better place, the likelihood is that a female investor or some female investors will be looking at more purpose-driven initiatives as well. So that's that, right?

Yeah. Yeah, totally agree.

Yeah, then for women, recognize that it's hard, but I would also say that, as I mentioned before, look at certain grants that may be given to women as well, because, you know, you have an advantage there. But the other thing, like everything else, is, you know, you do your best, right? I just think of it as the entrepreneurial journey, because it's not to suggest in any way that for your male colleague it's easier to to, to get, um, that getting funding is easy. It's not. It's not for anybody. And in this situation, it's difficult, right?

Mm-hmm.

But, um, going back to being tenacious about it, and being tenacious is not just saying going after it, right? It's also saying why, um, and getting feedback from people who turn you down. It's a learning experience, right? Don't just take— no, take the feedback because, um, is the product-market fit correct? Um, um, is this what I need at this point in time? Um, have I really established that this is a growth opportunity, etc.? So refine your product, refine your service, um, you know, make sure that it shines, communicate, have your network, uh, share. And if you are the one of the ones that has also, that has, um, uh, received funding, also share information with others. But the one that, um, I would like to share, which I know is, you know, it's like it's, you sort of say I'm looking for funding, right? I can't be picky and choosy, right? I just need to wait where it comes I totally understand that, but also be careful.

Yes.

There have been many instances where you've chosen the wrong funding partner and it could lend— it could end up to you losing control. It's not just control in terms of, you know, percentage, but in terms of the fact that the fit didn't even work right.

Yeah, yeah.

Understand what VCs— what it's like having a VC. Understand the kinds of organizations or companies they've invested in. Speak to others that they've invested in. I did that with one company. And I said to them, you know, find out from the other investing companies and see, you know.

Yes.

And see. And, um, and they did that and they were happy, right, you know, with the outcome.

I think that's very important, very important. It's like to ask the other portfolio company CEOs in the, the fund or the, or the investors that you're looking at, but also the ones that maybe are not public that you can find out about, because sometimes there are negative stories, and you want to hear how do those investors react in the good times and when things get difficult, because you want to hear both sides of the story. And that's so important part of doing investor due diligence. It's not one way you have to do it. And that's why I totally agree with you, choosing the right investor, it's really— it can be difficult but not impossible, as long as you're methodical and you do your research. And we both love research, so we both agree on that one. Thank you so much, Annina. It has been such a pleasure. I'm so thrilled that you have been here on this podcast with me today and that everybody's going to learn your story, hear your wisdom. What are the best places? What's the best way for people to reach out, to contact you if they want to learn more about your different services or to join Women at Davos?

Well, first of all, if you want to reach me directly, please just slide into my DMs on LinkedIn. It's as simple as that, right? If you want to reach 100 Women at Davos, you know, On LinkedIn or on social, on Instagram is perfectly fine, on the DMs. I love the inboxes that we have now on LinkedIn, so that's great. Otherwise, very simply, hello@100womendavos.com.

Perfect.

That email, and you'll get a response.

Fantastic. Well, listen, thank you so much, Annina. It's been such a pleasure, like truly a pleasure. You're a wonderful person. despite— not despite, in, in conjunction with everything you do. That's what I mean. It's the wrong word, despite. It's not that. It's you are a wonderful person, you know. And thank you for all the work you do to help to change this world and to help women leaders and to help organizations support and empower more women leaders, because I do truly believe in the power of feminine leadership and the power of women leaders and women entrepreneurs. And for that, we are true sisters. So thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you.

And hey, open invitation maybe to come back another time, and we will touch base and say, okay, what has changed since? But in the meantime, very best of luck with everything that you're continuing to do, and thank you.

Well, thank you, Anne. Thank you for having me on the podcast.