Founder Insights Webinar with Vivian Nwakah, Founder of Medsaf - 24th July 2019

Here we go. So welcome everybody, wherever you're calling in from. This is the very first webinar brought to you by AXA WeCan Network, and we are absolutely delighted today to have Vivian Mwaka, who is founder and CEO of Medsafe. Now she's going to tell you all about her journey as a female founder, what's it been like, what have been her challenges, how she's overcome them, And Vivian, you're going to give us loads of key tips, aren't you, throughout the— throughout this webinar?

Yes, I am.

So we're going to make it as interactive as possible. I am Anne Ravanona and I am founder and CEO of Global InvestHer, and I'm the— I am the entrepreneur in residence at AXA, at the AXA WeCan Network. So welcome everybody. We want to make this as interactive as possible, So if you could, if you've got questions live as you can hear Vivian talking, please feel free to type them into the chat box and we will get to them as much as possible. And Vivian, what I suppose— what I propose is that if there are lots of questions unanswered afterwards, if you don't mind, I'll send them to you by email and we can get back to those people. How do you— how does that sound?

Absolutely, that sounds great.

Fabulous. Well, I'm going to turn off my video because The star today who's telling her story is Vivian. So Vivian, let's start off with you. Can you tell us a little bit more about you and what you're going to cover today?

Yes, so my name is Vivian Nwaka, founder of MedZap. I originally am from Chicago, Illinois, so grew up in Chicago, didn't think I would ever leave Illinois, and You know, started my career there. The first thing I did was work for Wells Fargo Financial. We were doing mortgage refinances. I was able to be top salesperson in my region, and that just kind of gave me the power and the confidence to, to continue forward. I went on to help start home healthcare agencies after that. So that was my introduction to healthcare. and understanding the business side of healthcare. We were able to start with one that expanded across Illinois and Indiana. I kept trying to push myself and learn more about what I was actually capable of achieving. In that meantime, I actually ran a political campaign, which really just opened my eyes to fundraising and galvanizing people around a concept or a movement. As well as the operational side of moving people and inspiring people to move places and get to do what you want them to do. Meantime, I traveled. I love to travel, so started to kind of travel around the world and push myself to visit places I had never been and understand those places and their cultural and just the cultural differences and just experience. My mind, which then led me to get an MBA, which was a global MBA. And I spent some time in Paris. I went to the IAE de Sorbonne. And then I also went to the Federal University of Rio in Brazil and spent time in China as well, continuing to now travel around the world, but also looking at looking at the world from a business perspective and seeing, you know, what can I bring to the table to create an impact and improve people's lives. So my internship for that business program is what landed me in Nigeria. And that's the beginning of how I started Medzaph. So Medzaph is an enterprise supply chain management solution for and pharmacies. So what we're doing is we're tackling the fake and substandard medication problem that exists in countries like Nigeria. It's not just a Nigerian issue. And you can go back to the other slide because I'll talk about this slide a bit. You know, so now I've done all of these things in business. I've kind of pushed myself and now I can see, you know, what are my strengths and what are my weaknesses? And I wanted to create an impact. So when I got to Nigeria and I saw that people were purchasing medications from open drug markets, I was really touched by that. Along with some of the personal experiences, a friend of mine died from taking a fake malaria pill, which opened my eyes to the issue. And then I also had my own challenges with the healthcare system. So I was able to see an opportunity where everyone else was complaining. Nobody had done anything. There was not really anything that I could see that was being done about the way that people were forced to purchase their medications in countries like Nigeria. And so I decided to take a stand and raise my hand and say, I'll help do something. And that's how MedZeff came to be. So this picture is actually really real. Even if you come into Lagos today, You can go to the open drug market in Lagos Island and, you know, that 100-degree weather that you guys are dealing with in France, that's the, that's a typical, that's a typical day, uh, in Nigeria, um, for most of the year. So you can imagine that the quality of the medication can degrade over time if it's out in the heat like that. Um, and so that's, that's part of the issue, but then there's also, issues with standardization, issues with quality control, logistics, and just supply chain that also allow a lot of fake or substandard medications to enter the system as well. And the end result is that you, you don't know when you go to a hospital or a pharmacy if what they're actually dispensing to you is real or fake, or if it's substandard or not. And No one should have to live like that, and that's why we created Medzaff.

Wow. I mean, I think that's absolutely incredible. And what I love about your story and your passion, really, Vivian, is that like so many founders, you saw a problem and you decided you wanted to do something about it. You didn't wait for somebody else to do it. It got you, it got you so much that you had to do something. To be honest, it's extremely shocking to hear that that's the case in Nigeria, and that even when you're in hospital, you know, in accredited medical institutions, you're not even sure if the medicine that you're getting is real. And how big is this problem everywhere, Vivian? Tell us a bit more about that as well.

Yeah, so we're actually tackling a supply chain issue, which is an issue that you're going to find everywhere. In the United States, it's also an issue. In Europe, it's an issue as well. And that is, how does a hospital or pharmacy know where to get what they need for their patients just in time and understand the cost implications of that and have it be a seamless or smooth experience? And that's something that is a problem all over the world. Coupling in fake medication, that becomes an even bigger issue, as fake medication is a bigger industry than all of the illicit drugs combined. So, if you're talking about heroin and, you know, all illicit drugs, the fake medication is bigger than that. So, I would say for Countries like Nigeria or in Africa, if we're talking about Africa, I would say that fake and substandard medication is one of the biggest, if not number one, public health issues that people just don't know how to track, right?

Right.

They can't point to the numbers 100%. The World Health Organization has done some work and they have some statistics out there, but the numbers that we're talking about in countries like Nigeria, 30 to 40% of all medications sold are fake or substandard. That's a massive, that's a massive number. And you can feel it. I've experienced so many, many times, you know, purchasing medications and questioning what I'm taking. So, and everybody here has a story of somebody that they know that's been impacted by this in one way, shape, or another. And what I thought— what I want to really get across in this call is that when I saw this problem and I— in my head I said, okay, this is a supply chain issue. And technology— I'm seeing technology really disrupt a lot of the industries in countries like Nigeria. We've got e-commerce, you know, changing the whole way that people purchase goods. You know, we have phones and smartphone technology changing the way that Africans are banking, communicating, purchasing, and I'm seeing a massive impact there. And then you've got the healthcare industry, which is very much so antiquated and a bit older, and nothing's really happening in that space. And I'd say the biggest— the interesting thing, if I look back at how did I do it, is that I didn't actually think I could do it. So I really didn't think I could do it. I just, I was just looking for who was doing this, who was trying to solve this issue first. I almost want to attribute that to me being a woman, and I feel bad about that because it wasn't my instinct to say, I'm gonna stay in Nigeria and start a drug company. It was kind of like, okay, well, someone's got to be working on this problem. And I'll just support them. And everywhere I kept going, you know, people would say, well, I need help with this. We would go to hospitals and pharmacies. We surveyed over 100 hospitals and pharmacies in Lagos to see what their needs were. And overwhelmingly, people just kept saying, well, can you do this for us? And so it was, it was the people, it was the hospitals and pharmacies saying, I need you to help us. That pushed me into really creating the company and going forward with it.

That's amazing. That's absolutely amazing. And I think that's, you know, we have to start with the why. Like, what is— like, as you explained very, very clearly, Vivian, you know, why did you do this? Because if you don't have that why, you know, when the times get hard, you know, you could want to give up. Isn't that right, Vivian?

This is the hardest thing I have ever done. I could not— if you had told me half of what we would have had to do to get this company up and running, like, I just— if someone had said, you know, back in 2015, you know, that it would be this hard, I probably wouldn't have done it, right? So I think a bit of ignorance. A bit of ignorance, but definitely passion because You know, I feel like, and I always used to say, I created this company out of immense pain.

Hmm.

And I could feel that pain myself, you know, and I could empathize with other people feeling that same pain. And I just felt like this is not fair. So I'm not the best person to start this company. I'm not a pharmacist. I'm not, I don't have 30 years of experience. in supply chain. I'm not the best person to start this company in my head, but I just said someone's got to do something and I stood up for it. And so it's that drive, that internal understanding of how important this is on a grander scheme of things that definitely got me through a lot of the hard times and the personal challenges and the personal sacrifices. that I've had to make to even get where I am right now.

So we have a question from Joëlle from Nantes, and she wants to know how long it took you from your why to your how. I like that question, Joëlle. So how long did it take you from the why to the how? And that leads lovely into how do you solve that problem with MedCeph? So how did you make that jump?

Well, so I, as I kind of explained with my career, it just was not a straight path at all. It was more of like an unraveling and a journey. So back in 2013 is when I said, okay, this is the problem, right? And I started to slowly start to try to investigate why. Whether that is, you know, at one point, you know, I said, okay, let me set up a distribution company in the US and I'll just ship medications to Nigeria. Clearly, they just don't have medications. Maybe that's the issue. So I made some assumptions on what I thought the problem was. And then I tried to— then I moved forward with trying to create a solution for what I thought the problem was. And all of my— when I would come up with assumptions, so the assumption was, Africa just doesn't have medication, right? Which is kind of an American way of thinking about things. And then I ran into regulatory issues, and then I ran into all this kind of red tape and, you know, issues that then made me understand a lot deeper as to why it is that you can't just ship medications, good medications from Chicago to Nigeria and fix the problem. And so it was this journey. And so I would say in 2014 is when I started to really just do the research on importation and the regulatory environment. And 2015 is when I found an entry point. So in 2015, I said to myself, well, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a pharmacist. I don't think I could sell medication, but what can I sell to try to figure out this industry?

Mm-hmm.

At the time, you know, the answer was vitamins and supplements. So I said, if we can create a platform, because it was all about technology, not necessarily the medications themselves, but it was about technology making the supply chain easier so that there was a better so that we could control quality better and we could control source better and create some transparency around the source of things that you put in your mouth for your health, right?

So that's a very good question because from A, she's written in and she said, so how do you go about existing lobbyists and existing suppliers in the sector? Because your solution is gonna bring transparency. You're basically putting the spotlight on the bad guys, if we put it that way. So how do you get around those existing suppliers and the people who are creating the problem?

Well, so that's such a good question. So I'll explain the issue a little bit more. And my journey was just kind of the rabbit hole of figuring out, okay, what is this actual issue and what's the solution? And so when I looked at the supply chain, you have, You have governments, you have global manufacturers, you have indigenous manufacturers, you then have distributors, and then you have wholesalers, and you have hospitals, pharmacies, and then you have patients. So I looked at all the different pieces of the supply chain and I figured out, okay, who has the most pain? Who has the least amount of resources and who is motivated to do something different than what they're doing currently? And the answer was hospitals and pharmacies. Patients, of course, want quality medication, but the hospitals and pharmacies have had, at this point, had no tools, no resources, not even working capital loans to even help them just improve their businesses. And so we focused on them. So the very first thing— so I think that the success or the beginning of a successful strategy was just figuring out who has the most pain.

Hmm.

That can influence the greater outcome. So the greater outcome is quality medication. The greater outcome is fair pricing for patients, right? So who can drive that? That's going to be the hospitals and pharmacies. So we started there. And because they have one of the hardest challenges in this entire supply chain. So a manufacturer, they can just manufacture what they want and then just give it to whoever will distribute it, right? Distributors can decide who they want to distribute for and just work within that little band. But the hospitals, they have to find all of the different medications so that they can give it to their patients in order to have good care. And if they, if they're not good at that, then their patients will not come to their hospital anymore and they'll go out of business, right? So they had a bigger problem to fix, which is how do you get all the medications that your hospital needs in one place at the right time, at the right cost? And then they also have the responsibility to the patients. So we focused on creating a a platform and a tool and a mechanism to help the hospitals and the pharmacies purchase medications better. And so, just to kind of go back to the question that was asked, I come from a place where my background and my earliest jobs have always been in sales. You know, what has always helped me, whether it's selling mortgages or selling, you know, diamond rings— I used to work at Zales, you know, selling whatever it could be— is that just finding the mutual, you know, the mutual benefit, the mutual benefit, right? So if I can, you know, tell— if I can give you something that's going to help you do your job better, or it's going to help you you know, with whatever your objective is and it works with my objective, then there's a partnership opportunity there that can propel whatever I'm trying to do forward. So I'm always kind of looking for that. And so for all of the various stakeholders, we are mutually aligned. Good manufacturers are always going to want a company like MedZaph coming in with a new technology or a new way of doing business that highlights why that manufacturer has good medications. A distributor is always going to want to find the minimum amount of time— ways that they can distribute their medications without having to pay for logistics and kind of tackle some of the infrastructure issues. And in the hospital, they want a one-stop shop. They want something easy. They want an easy service that they can trust. And the customers, you know, the patients, they want a brand that they can trust. They want, you know, they want to be sure that someone has thought about quality control and thought about, you know, what it is that they're actually putting in their mouth or their kids' mouths. So MedZapp is really aligned with all stakeholders. The government wants us to be successful because It's, it's an improvement to the, to the lives of the people that live here. And I mean, there really isn't anyone that we're against, if that makes sense. So even though there's definitely people who are making a lot of money off of inefficiencies within the system, majority of the people just want to do the right thing. They just need assistance to do that. And by Using technology to focus on this one problem and this pain point, we're able to help every single person within the supply chain, and that's powerful, and that's why we were able to start getting traction.

So Katie has sent in a question. She wants to know, do you find difficulty with healthcare admins trusting an online platform to purchase drugs versus distribution reps or past relationships?

Do we find it— wait, say that one more time.

Do you find it— do you find that it's hard for the healthcare admins to trust an online platform to buy their drugs versus going through the distribution reps or past relationships they already had?

Yeah. So we took the time to really just understand how the market works or how does a hospital work. And I will say that our company is a hybrid. We're half online, half offline. And so the whole point is to push— in the future, MedZapf will not have anybody that has to go to a hospital. You push a button, everything gets delivered to your pharmacy just in time. But just the way that these types of markets operate, we had to understand it really well, understand the various stakeholders, and We call ourselves tech-enabled, and I think in an emerging market, that's the only way to go. You've got to be tech-enabled. So we definitely introduced technology to our hospitals. You know, we went to hospitals and pharmacies and they have everything on paper. Everything. Everything. You go into their office, and I just went into one today, the entire office is full of paper. And so when we brought our laptops and showed the admin or the pharmacist how to just kind of pick everything online and showed them how, there was a lot of training that was involved. I mean, it really just helped a lot of our customers just improve on the quality of their time and their impact in their jobs, and they're very thankful for it. So there's still an aspect of building relationships that's offline, but we're also building a brand. Right now, Medzaph— someone's mentioning an mPharma over here.

Mm.

Medzaph right now in Nigeria, we're looking really good. You know, people are asking for us because of our, you know, because of our dedication to the experience and the quality of that experience and the customer service. aspect of what we're doing to the hospitals. And of course, our dedication towards around quality control as a service and to the greater community. So, you know, we're working all— we work many different angles to build trust and just push the customer into, you know, the least amount of touches as possible. But it doesn't start off that way.

So I want us to then move on. So thank you for that. And I think that's really clear as to how you're solving the problem, how you detected the problem, and how you did very thorough research and worked together with the hospitals to actually come up with the solution that they would need, you know, because you did intense research. Now we have some questions coming down to the To the founder part. So first of all, you have a lovely photo here of the team. Somebody sent in a question online before, which was, you know, how did you manage hiring the first hire? Because that's the first— before you have this fabulous smiling team, you've got to start with one person to join, don't you? So how did you overcome that first step of finding the right, the right person for the first hire?

Yeah. So this is where I'm going to talk about the hard part of building a company. Yay!

This is the meat.

I have to be 100% honest. I mean, I begged people that I knew. I begged people because the reality is, is that I, you know, first of all, I'm not— yes, I'm Nigerian. So my parents left here in the 1970s, but I didn't grow up here. I didn't grow up here. You know, my friends are in the United States, and at that time, telling a friend to move their life and move to Nigeria, you know, doesn't— didn't actually, you know, didn't sound like a sane question. You know, and so I had to identify people who I knew could help me, not necessarily go all the way to the end, but could help So I'd say one of the benefits that I have is I'm a visionary. I will say that very easily. I mean, I can see the future and I can see the steps towards the future. And so I had to kind of break down what I knew we needed to achieve into who was available to help us get to certain milestones.

Hmm.

And that's a different founder story than I think the normal founder story, which is that you and your friends have this great idea, you come together and you start this company. So I had to— the first people who joined MedZeff, I begged them to join and to just put a little bit of time. It wasn't perfect at all. But I will say the success stories, this guy here, I don't know, he's right next to me. He was our actual first real employee. So I had the founders, which is one section, but then there's actual employees. So the guy to the left of me in that picture, he was our first employee. I could only afford to pay him out of my pocket. I could really only afford to pay him about ₦70,000, which is like— that's like $100, less than $200 a month. You know, and basically, you know, it was him and I that would go to every single hospital to basically do surveys. So from where he was then to where he was now is like 1,000% growth.

Mm.

I will say that. So there wasn't a team of people around me that were just perfect for what I envisioned. And so I had to really focus on who can I kind of groom into this idea of, you know, the type of person that can lead, you know, a conversation or lead, you know, a business. I mean, today we just went and are trying to close a deal with a hospital that does, you know, 70 million naira a month of revenue. And that's this little guy here who who's leading that conversation. So, you know, now he's at a place where I can entrust him to be able to handle massive talks with hospitals, but we didn't start that way. So—

I think that's super important because, you know, thank you for saying that. Thank you for being so frank and saying, hey, I did the best I could with the people who were around me and who I could get to follow me and who I could afford. And then I got— I wrote down here as you were talking, I got to groom them and to grow them. So I helped them to groom and grow my team. And I think that's, that's part of the— a huge part of the CEO's job. One of the people who wrote in online was asking, did you find good freelancers and agencies who didn't— who don't cost the earth? Like, did you use any of that in Nigeria, or is that just not the case?

We couldn't afford them in the beginning.

Yeah. Okay.

So LinkedIn, LinkedIn. So I knew, so my strategy was this, like I don't have the past history in Nigeria. I needed to build a name for myself. So very early on, I knew that LinkedIn and just kind of the marketing of what is MedZap and kind of gaining some traction around did people hear that name was really important. So telling the story, and I think this is one thing that I was always— for me, I can't keep my mouth shut. Like, that's just not in my nature. But a lot of people are like, you know, these like stealth mode startups and stuff. I couldn't even afford to do that, right? Because if nobody knows what I'm working on, then who's gonna join me to help me build this thing? So I told everybody that I met, every time I saw someone, I pitched them on MedZapp every single time. And I, even before I had stuff all together or all figured out, even before I had a good pitch deck or even good graphics, I was just on LinkedIn or Facebook promoting MedZapp so that people would be aware of it. And I did that from the very beginning before I even launched the company. Right? So I was not worried about someone stealing the idea because this is such a hard thing to do that nobody's done it successfully yet. I just knew I needed to get it out, the word out. And that's how I started to get people to buy into what we were doing. And so some of the founders that helped me, you know, they came from, you know, hearing that I was working on this thing and then wanting to kind of be a part of it. And so I tried to— I packaged it as, look, I'm starting a movement. Our tagline is quality medication is a fundamental human right. Do you want to be part of this or not? And that comes from my— that actually comes from my political campaign days of— and so that's where I started to kind of bring in all these different experiences, these random experiences that my parents were very upset that I was not focused. But, you know, they started to, you know, kind of, you know, help me light up the path towards how to build this company from nothing, not really that much money, only my own money and no social capital, I guess you would say.

So you have Katie saying, cheers to that. Too hard for being in stealth mode. We agree. You got to speak up. And it's not about, you know, trying to protect the idea because this is really hard stuff and it takes You know, and I love what you were saying about your parents and that they were worried about you, saying, oh my God, she's so focused. You're an entrepreneur, Vivian. That's what entrepreneurs do, you know. So we have a couple of questions coming in. Simone wants to know, with regard to the surveys and research, how did you convince stakeholders to share information at that early stage?

Cupcakes. Yeah, I love— we just brought cupcakes. Say, hi, how are you? We're just trying to help, you know. We're gonna give you a cupcake.

Bribery always works. Bribery, I love it. Everybody's laughing here. They're going, oh, love it. Now we have a question as well from Faslima. Faslima wants to know, is MedSapp subscription-based and how do you determine your pricing?

Yeah, so that's actually a really good question. Pricing is— so I don't know if I've— I haven't mentioned this, and maybe I'll kind of mention this. Please don't be scared. This open drug market is really run by, you know, a very, very, very well-organized— I don't want to say mafia, if that's the word, but it's a very well-organized organization. And some of the things that they do to keep power is crash prices, hoard medications. There's all types of tricks. It's extremely advanced. And you wouldn't think it if you went there. And so I knew immediately that if you're trying to— if I'm trying to sell a Tylenol and that's all I'm trying to sell and someone in the market is selling it for much cheaper than I am, that I've got to build a value around what I'm doing that takes away that price sensitivity, which could have just driven us out of the market from the very beginning. And so that's where customer service and that's where, you know, all of those types of soft benefits that MedZep adds to our customers as a service. come into play. We're not always going to be the cheapest. We're not competing on price. We're competing on the level of service, and our level of service is 10x more than our closest competitor, even still today. So that's always really important to us. But pricing is always going to be part of just doing it, you know, understanding what's happening in the market, the greater market, you know, where are they, what are those guys selling those medications in that open drug market? What's the price? What is the manufacturer selling it for? Is there a huge gap between, and where can MedZapf kind of, you know, play in the middle of that and still, you know, make, make a profit, but still, you know, have a sustainable solution. And so, We're consistently tackling pricing every month.

So it's awesome. You have Caroline who's going, bravo. She's doing high five and bravo. Because yeah, I mean, and you've a couple of people who are saying it is a mafia over there. You've got to be very careful in the future. And obviously you know who you're dealing with. So we're assuming and hoping that you are being very careful about that. So you've talked about quite a lot of obstacles. So let's talk about obstacles here, Vivian. Can you kind of take us back from your entrepreneurial journey as a founder from beginning to now, and what have been your key obstacles and how did you get over them? So let's— tell us the obstacles first.

Well, I'd still say that obstacle— the biggest obstacle is still people, right? Finding the right people at the right time for the right roles, right? I would say that's still my number one obstacle. obstacle or not obstacle, it's just still the biggest challenge that I'm dealing with. Raising money, I would have said, you know, was a huge obstacle and it will still continue to be something that will always kind of be there as something to overcome, but it got so much easier now than it was when I first started. Yeah, it's, it's just kind of ridiculous how hard it was when I first started.

So you're going to tell us more about that. But let's talk about the other kind of founder obstacles like that. You looking back say, hmm, yeah, that was particularly hard.

Yeah. I mean, so my issue was always that, you know, I was extremely passionate about it. I knew that I was going to have to sacrifice for this? And who was I going to find that would sacrifice at my level throughout this journey, right? Finding those people. And so as we've gotten more money, then we were able to attract better, you know, people who were able, more capable to do more things. So it's kind of like money and people are tied together.

Mm-hmm.

You know, but still, even though we have some money in the bank today, You know, still finding the right people for certain roles has not been easy. And it's been something that consistently this year has been like, you know, the biggest challenge and the biggest thing that we have to overcome every month.

So tell us how you've overcome them so far. So the challenges of finding those right people. And now that you have the money, and we're going to come back to your funding journey a little bit afterwards, but How are you overcoming that?

Well, so I'll talk about last year. You know, I made a critical error. And I think I'm talking about this because I don't know if it's just me personally or if this is a thing that women tend to do. But like, I completely undersold myself and the value of what I was bringing to the table. So when someone who I thought was going to come in and fix a huge problem that we were dealing with, when they said that they would come in and fix it, I said, okay, great, come, you know? And I didn't realize how much I was actually capable of fixing that problem and myself. And how I should have vetted this person because I was just so open to say, oh my gosh, just come and help because I need it, right?

Yeah.

So I didn't— it's almost like dating really badly. Like, I, you know, like, I'm just not— I'm not even good at that anyways. But now this plays out in the business world where you just miss, you know, just bad relationships. So I had to— it was through this really bad situation with a person that first of all, I realized the strength of what I was bringing to the table. And I realized what I had learned and how I was applying it to supply chain and entrepreneurship in a way that I didn't realize that I actually have the capability to solve this thing. And I can break it down into pieces and give it to other people so that they can manage and run with it. And I can trust them to run with it because I actually know, I know what I'm doing.

Yeah. So hold that because that's awesome, Vivian, and I think you, you've said a couple of things there. Katie just says, number one, it's not just you underselling yourself, it happens all the time and particularly with female founders, and that's very true, Katie. A lot of the female founders that I've spoken to over the years, and me myself included, we can tend to undersell ourselves just It's not really underselling. What I've learned is that we just don't boast about what we're doing the same way guys do. Guys do a little thing and they'll be like, way, I'm the king of the world! Whereas we're very busy women just getting it done, you know?

Yeah.

So I think that's more what it comes in than rather underselling. It's like we're really focusing on getting it done and solving the problem. Then now a very good question has come in from Caroline. She's saying, How do you deal with the loneliness that comes with the responsibility? Thank you for that question, Caroline. It's a really good question.

So last year— and so I'll preface what was last year. So we've raised a seed round. We did kind of like a pre-seed round and then we raised a seed round. So the pre-seed round was about— was like in the $100,000 mark. It wasn't really enough, but it was like, oh wow, we got some money, so let's just go and execute. And then the seed round, to round out the seed round, was in the million plus. So huge difference in funding, right?

Mm-hmm.

So last year was before the bigger chunk of that money came in, and it was extremely hard because we had undersold ourselves and what we actually needed. to get this done. And so we had to get something done that probably, you know, other companies do with, you know, at least 5 times more of the funds. We had to do it with 4 people and much less than that. And a lot of that fell on my head. And yeah, and so, you know, I ran myself into the ground last year to keep this company growing and and in a place where we could receive additional funding and scale up. So in a really dangerous way, you know, like completely ignored my health in really unsustainable ways. So I'm definitely suffering from, you know, even still repercussions of, you know, letting go my— you know, letting my personal life just, you know, get ground into oblivion as I was building this company. And it's mostly because I didn't have, you know, the founders that needed to kind of hold up this company the right way to start with. So it's partly the challenge that I took up by not having all the pieces in place. And it's just kind of how it worked out. But now that once we got funding, I was able to hire people who can now take on, you know, huge pieces of what I was dealing with alone last year. So loneliness was the least of my worries. You know, it's like health is more important than, you know, mental health is important, right?

Yes.

But like even just basic health, you know, is important too. So, you know, You know, I'm just kind of waiting for, you know, making sure that we tackle this obstacle of people so that I can make up for it.

I'm so glad you say that because mental health is so, so important. It's a bit like in the planes where they say you have to put your own oxygen mask on before helping others. And sometimes we don't do it and we run ourselves into the ground as founders. It's very common. I've been there, you've been there, lots of people have been there. And I think, you know, what can happen in the startup press is, particularly with a lot of male founders, is like they wear burnout as a badge, and it's like a badge of honour. And, oh, I do this on 3 hours of sleep, and I haven't taken a holiday in 2 years, you know, until they crash. And we're not doing our team or investors any favours by not looking after ourselves. So I think it's really important what you're saying. Simone wants to know, what pieces do you think you should have had in place? When you mentioned that you didn't have the pieces in place, what do you think you should have had in place?

The right founder team.

Yeah. So take us then through your funding journey, because you've talked about the— how did you overcome those obstacles? So it's basically with the money you were able to hire better people and give out more of the pieces of work to do. That's very clear what you said. So walk us through your— through a bit more detail of your funding journey and what were your challenges and how you overcame them?

Yeah. So the first— so while I was thinking of the idea in my head, I was already working on another startup. So I was already kind of plugged into the ecosystem here. So the first thing I did was try to figure out what is the startup ecosystem and how can I surround myself with people who are doing it in ways that I admire?

Hmm.

You know, so I— the first things that I did was just identify people in various industries in Nigeria, but also in Silicon Valley and in the United States and Europe who had been successful and who I could get access to and ask them questions. And so I vetted this. I vetted like I over-vetted. I went to everyone I could and said, what do you think about this idea? What do you think about this? And they would give feedback. And, you know, a lot of times people would say, I don't like it, you know, and I would go back to them and say, okay, what do you think about this? And I would tweak it until some of those individuals saw, you know, how dedicated I was to building this thing. And that I kept coming with more and more improvements to the concept and the rollout plan, the pitch deck, the financial model, all these things. And so they were— they invested. And so it was really, you know, I identified people who have had some type of level of success in different industries, but that were similar to what we were trying to tackle. So for example, the guys that started, you know, the Jumias of— Jumia is the largest e-commerce platform in Nigeria. You know, the guys that started that, I wanted to have them on our cap table, you know. So I'd pick people that I thought were successful and try to be a part of them. And then the first thing I did too was even though I just gotten out of business school, only, you know, 2 years before. So it's not like I needed help with, you know, marketing or like some of these concepts, but I knew that being in an accelerator or a group of people working this through would just be helpful for me as far as my ideas and just reminding myself of how to put stuff together. So I did start— I did start— I did rebrand or repackage MedZapf in an accelerator.

Mm-hmm.

And then of course, you know, talking about MedZapf consistently over and over and over again started to get me some press that I just ran with. So those are the ways that I was able to get angels, and it was the first angels that then made the next angels give money, and they were giving like $5,000 checks.

Yeah.

So, you know, we weren't getting, you know, the hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment. It was $5,000 here, $5,000 there. Then they would maybe give an additional $5,000 and then maybe this person would give $15,000 and it was just, it would just kind of grow from there. And it always kind of felt like, okay, well, you know, these people are giving, you know, maybe like throwaway money really. But I was able to show them How that first $5,000 just changed. It was able to get us into an office. You know, Femi, the guy that you saw, he had a place to sit down. He had a laptop. You know, we could afford a driver to start. I mean, so it just really just kind of accelerated, you know, the movement of what we were doing.

So Caroline, she says she admires you. She says, We all do, she thinks. We all admire you. It's just true. Yes, we do, Kahleen. And big up to the startup ecosystem and entrepreneurs that help every day and give some time to discuss with us. It's very true, because you've got to give back as well when you're in it. And it's great, because it's true, you learn a lot from the other founders, exactly like you said, identifying your heroes. Taslima wants to know, how did you decide how much equity to give away?

Big mistake that I made. was just undervaluing, undervaluing. So I just didn't think, you know, 2 girls, my other founder is a pharmacist, you know, I just didn't, I didn't think big. So that's my feedback to everybody. You know, the guys are going out there saying that, you know, their idea is like worth already like $2 million before they've even like— done anything. And when I was raising money, we had already gotten hospitals to work with us. They were already giving us money. We already had traction, you know, and I just, you know, I undersold that. So, but the way that I did kind of figure out the equity piece was to ask other founders what their valuation was and— At their stage, at the stage, at a similar stage, and look at other companies that were similar to what we were doing, whether it's like a logistics company because of the logistics piece, or, you know, so just looking at the different pieces of Medzef and figuring out, okay, well, who's doing something similar and what was the value that they were able to raise money at.

Yeah.

But I would definitely say that I undervalued the company in the beginning, for sure.

Which is a common mistake for a lot of founders, Vivian. And I think that, you know, I would say as a general rule of thumb, ladies, is that you want to give up 15-20% maximum per round. So if you're in the seed round, which is the early-stage money to start, you know, testing your model, testing your company and the product or service you're building, that's 15%. And then when you go for Series A, it's about 15%, 15-20%. Series B+, you know, because the thing is that you need, as a founder, to end up still with quite a bit of equity. Otherwise, you know, when it gets to a later stage of funding, investors don't like it when the founder has less than 30% of the capital— of the equity, sorry— because they just feel you don't have enough skin in the game and that you're not gonna, you know, keep going. There's not enough in it for you to keep going instead of just working for investors. So I would just say definitely be— think big. And, um, Katie is saying valuation is the hardest in emerging markets. No one likes to believe it's real. Congrats on what you've done. It's nice you get the congrats. Um, Karen wants to know, how did you pitch to angel investors and how did you find them? So you said about how you found them through your network, asking others, and so on. So how did you pitch them?

Well, so this is where my background comes into play, you know, and I'll share my patented Vivian approach. Go to any type of investor place where the investors are gathering and make sure you make a spectacle where everyone's looking at you and you get to pitch what MedZapp is. So that was great to just kind of like get attention on MedZap. So I'd like go to a forum and I would make sure to ask— I'd make sure to wear something that just really stands out. This is my theater days coming into play, you know, wear something that stands out and then I'd ask a question so I can set up MedZap. Yeah, so, you know, and so that was always the way. So I'd just be really loud, just be like this huge energy in the room so that people just like, who is this person? What's she doing and how can I understand a little bit more about that? So my whole goal is just to anytime I'm in a room, especially if it's like an investor room, is to and is to make sure that I have a stream of people coming up to me. And so I've done that. I've gone to like a fintech conference, and we're not even a fintech company. And I've and I've turned it into okay well where's Vivian so we can talk about MedZap. So that's one thing I'm good at that I like to do. And so it's just being big, loud.

I love it. That's so important. It's absolutely— I agree with your key tips. I do them too. I always wear bright colors. White today, but when I'm in a conference, I will wear red, white, something that makes me stand out, not black. Always ask a question from the audience to the speaker live. That always works because the cameras, everybody goes on you, and then afterwards people say, oh, she's the one, and they will seek you out. So that definitely does work.

Exactly.

And go up to them if the investor is a speaker at the conference. That's another tip I would add is, you know, make sure that you go up to them at the end and say, I'm in this space, would it be possible to, you know, meet up with you sometime, have a coffee? Like, I would love to ask you a question about this. Or have a question ready. Like, whenever you are, wherever you are, have a question that you want to ask those investors and seek them out. Know exactly who's going to be there because that's also important. So what other tips do you have for us?

So look, I'm a psychology major, sociology. I was an English major. My parents got upset about that. You know, like, I'm not a science or math person per se. I had to push myself into that later on through experiences, but it's not how my mind works, right? So, you know, I think, yeah, English majors.

English majors, yeah, Katie's going, woo-hoo, English majors!

No, that's not how my mind works, so I really had to spend some time to understand how does their mind work.

Yes.

And so when I got my mind around not being afraid of The key phrases and the way they speak, then I was able to speak about the numbers in a way that I didn't feel very scared. But I will definitely say that in the beginning that was a fear of mine. But the reality is, and I think women, they'll always come up to women first and say like, do you know your numbers? Yes, I actually do because I work in this business every single day. I do know my numbers. You know, and I do know what it is that I'm doing. And I think just being more confident, more confidence has come because I do know what I'm doing. I know this business now inside and out. But in the beginning, I didn't have that confidence. So I had to kind of fake the confidence for sure.

So walk us through your other key tips because we're coming up to the hour. Karen is asking a very good valuation question. Karen, we will come back to that afterwards if we have time, if you don't mind, because it's quite a technical one.

It's magic. It's really magic.

It is really magic. Yeah, it's hard to do. So your question is around how do you— what is the magic formula for estimating valuation pre-revenue? And you can't seem to get a clear answer on this because there isn't a different ways of doing it and it's not that clear. So, but let's get back to your key tips to the WeCan Network, Vivian, because we're— I want to make sure we cover those. Yeah, so you've mentioned a couple here on the slides. Walk us through them.

Yeah, so don't sell yourself short. So that early valuation problem, sold myself short. Bringing the wrong people into the company because I thought they were— they had something better to offer than I did was selling myself short. Like, you know, all the— some of the mistakes I made in the beginning, it was all due to just kind of like not having the level of self-esteem about what I was doing that I should have had.

Mm-hmm.

So selling myself short. And the reality is that those guys, the people that are successful might not have anything. You know, like it was ridiculous. Like I'd run into a competitor and realize like, wow, I have done way more than this competitor who everyone talks about. I have way more than that in my company. But because I was intimidated or just was selling myself short, I didn't realize that, you know.

And so there's just a really good point here from Tasleema. She's saying, it's an uncomfortable question alert. I'm from a BAME background. And often I feel I need to shout out louder than everyone else in the room I find myself in. As a result, I worry I'm not always able to portray my authentic self. Have you faced similar challenges, and if so, how did you overcome them?

What is BAME?

So Taslima explained it. It's basically— I don't want to say the wrong acronym, but so put it in— but it's basically People of colour and from different parts. So could you put in the acronym what it means to be the correct one, Taslima? Because I don't want to under— undersay how important that is.

Well, this is where my traveling came into play into my career. They're every— I mean, into this thing. So I'm pulling from all parts of my life. Traveling in theatre I did theater extensively in high school, and this is where those things come, come into play. Inside, I might feel like I have no clue what I'm doing. I have no confidence in this thing. I'm extremely insecure about everything I'm doing. But then on the outside, that's not the way I'm going to portray this thing, and that's not the way you can, otherwise no one's going to believe in you. But I will say this though. I didn't— I haven't even thought— I'm coming— I am selling a drug company in Nigeria.

Yeah.

To Silicon Valley investors. Okay? There's no— I'm a woman, a Black woman selling a drug company in Nigeria. Okay? So think about all the preconceived notions that you have about all these things. I don't think about that, right?

Yeah.

Thinking about that, I am selling a pharmaceutical company that can scale across the world that will lower healthcare costs for all, right? Bam!

I love it. Bam!

It's not to say that you're not going to have to overcome preconceived notions, but the one thing I will say that people know about me when they talk to me is the amount of passion that I have for this company, and that passion is what has pushed them to invest or open up a door or be involved or be interested in what we're doing, whether or not I can get it done or not, the passion that I have for this company, people can feel it. You can't walk away from me without feeling that. And I think that when you tap into that, like what is this pain point, how does it relate to you, you know, how do you sustain that and you can really get to people, you know, then you can break down some barriers, you know. The point is, is that everybody is impacted by healthcare. Everybody can understand someone in their family, how they would feel if someone there in their family took a medication that was not real, you know. So just how do you empathize with every— how do you empathize with another human being? And those were the lessons that I learned solo traveling around the world in Europe and South America, not speaking the language, but connecting with people on just like an instinctual level to get somewhere. And it's those things that I bring to this company.

I totally agree with you. And, you know, it's— this is down to our self-confidence as well, Faslima. And that's exactly what Vivian is saying, she's projecting that. It's from her life experiences. And at the end of the day, you're talking heart to heart, one person to another person. Whether it is, um, talking to investors, you need to position yourself as a partner. I'm looking for business partners. You sell the vision. Uh, whether it is a, um, a business, uh, you know, partnership that you're gonna have, like, um, Medsafe are working towards building with AXA. That's all of that thing comes through your passion and your self-belief. And it's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it, Vivian? I mean, the more you are passionate, the more you really believe it and people see it, and then that creates a snowball effect. And Karen says, I love that, passion and self-confidence are key. Thank you, she says.

And I've gotten really into like manifestation, this concept concept that I can visualize something and that it can happen.

Yep.

Based off of me thinking about it positively. And I will tell you some really scary— well, scary stuff happens with Men's Health all the time where it's like, whoa, somebody else wants this company to work out. Like, it can't just be that there's a green light every time. Like sometimes it really feels like that, but I think it's coming from this idea of we want this thing to move forward and we're attracting what the outcome is because we're thinking positively about it. And so I really have gotten to try to learn more about this mindset as I've been building this company because it's— I think it's really real.

And so can you just walk us through those last 2 tips, tip 2 and tip 4, because we're going to have to wrap up and I just have to make sure that we cover that.

So nothing and no one is perfect. So this goes back to, am I the best person to run a pharmaceutical company in an emerging market? Probably not. Like on paper. Right. So I just raised my hand and just did it. So I'm not perfect. Nobody else is perfect either. So I've just got to take with, you know, what is the strengths that other people have and how can we come together in this moment of time and get things to move forward. And then tip 4 is just, I think I've also kind of said it already, is like solving a problem that's worth solving because, you know, like, Yeah. It's great if you could have like, I mean, it's nice There are some, you know, first world problems that people are fixing in this grade, you know, and you could probably think like a ton of other people can come in and figure out how to, you know, make the coffee machine work faster or something, but I mean, we're solving, you know, a huge issue. And because it's so huge and so massive, so many people just decided it wasn't worth it. And so we had a situation in Nigeria where it's almost just like, it is, the sky is the limit. I almost feel like we're just going and nobody else is catching up with us yet because we just saw this opportunity as so huge that we just tackle it. So it was really, you know, Just go big or go home.

I love it because it's really true. It's really, really true because we need, we need people like you, Vivian, and thank you for being who you are and doing what you do. And we really need people like you to help create those movements and to move things forward. So, you know, thank you so much for, for being with us. So what I'd love to do now is, for those of us— for those of you who are still live with us, can you please just type in the chat box, you know, a piece of feedback, a couple of words that you think that you want to tell Vivian live? Because it's always love to get the feedback and the love live, Vivian. So Siobhan is saying you're very inspiring and honest. Thank you. Caroline says thank you. And I'll let everybody type it through. Was really, really inspiring. Appreciate you sharing such valuable information, says Karen. Marija says thank you. Taslima says thanks, Vivian, you're doing such an amazing job. I wish you all the best with MedSaf. And Simone says authenticity and empathy are the path. Absolutely. Was absolutely great. Roisin says thank you for such an open account and your great storytelling. Fantastic idea to compact Fake and substandard medicine. Thank you. Very inspiring, inspiring, amazing job and a great moment. So that's fantastic. So here you have your touch points. So if you want to keep in touch with Vivian, please do. Here you have the her her her places to to contact her via Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. And before we go, very important. You are here thanks to AXA, the AXA We Can Network, which is an online network on LinkedIn brought to you by AXA to help women entrepreneurs. So it's a specially created community online to help you, and we're going to be bringing you many more things along this line of content. If you haven't already joined, please join us at the link that you see on your screen. linkedin.com/showcase/we-can-network. So I want to say a huge thank you to you, Vivian. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

It's been an absolute pleasure. And, you know, everybody is saying feeling inspired, is contemplating starting out on this journey. That's Roisin. Marie says an amazing job, congratulations. And Yeah, Caroline says thanks a lot. So yeah, Vivian, you're saying that LinkedIn is best for you, so connect with her on LinkedIn. She is a member of the, of the We Can Network, so ladies, if you're not already members, please join up. So on behalf of AXA, thank you very much for joining us today. We look forward to seeing you in the We Can Network online. Thank you again so much, Vivian. It's been a privilege to have you with us.

Thank you.

And we look forward to staying in touch. Thank you, everybody.