The Role of Community in Health and Wellness With Eileen Gallagher

All right, welcome to Infinite Gold, growth and greatness, life, legacy, and laughs with the Goldners. We'd like to welcome Dr. Eileen Gallagher.

Hello everyone. Woo!

So Dr. Eileen Gallagher, she's an amazing person. Um, we've gotten to know her in the past almost a year and we've learned so much from her and we had to bring her on here. And today we're gonna talk about the Vitality Pillar. She's an extreme expert in it. She graduated from UC Davis in nutrition science, and then she moved on to her graduate in dietitian at UCSF, UC San Francisco. She worked there for about 2 years and just really honed in on her skills. Then she went off to UC Irvine for medical school and she did her residency out there in, uh, family medicine. She did 16 years of clinical practice and then from, and during that time she also worked 15 years where she coached health and lifestyle. So she's got a really vast knowledge. About the industry and nutrition, fitness, the works. She also worked in the healthcare delivery system and currently right now she's a chief medical officer for a population health office and she just has a vast knowledge base and she has a really true passion and a love for helping others and that's why we had to bring her on. So again, welcome Eileen and thank you for joining us.

With all that experience, it makes it sound like I'm 80 years old.

No, not at all. We're just talking about your experience.

Well, she's like a lot. My kids, yeah, joked one day, my kids were like, how long were you in school? Calculated and it was 27 years. I was like, that's a long, long time.

Hey, you doctors, you guys are in school for the majority of your life, I feel.

Well, the older you get, the less, the less of your life it is. Percentage shrink.

True, true. Exactly.

Yeah.

So one of the things—

thank you for the introduction.

Yeah, of course. Of course. So one of the things we want to talk about was the water fasting. Um, you and I decided last minute last week, like, let's do a water fast even after you were already on one. So I appreciate you joining back in with me. I'm still going strong. I've hit about 3 days in a couple of minutes. So. But you just got off, would you end up doing 84 hours?

So with the second piece, so I did a 36-hour and then I ate that day cuz I had some plans. And then you and I were talking and you're like, do it with me. And I'm like, oh, do I really want to do that? And so I said, all right, I'll do it. So I did another 3 and a half days. So I started in the evening and then I finished actually this morning. So it was about 84 hours.

Awesome.

Just 3 and a half days.

And then do you mind discussing a little bit about, uh, what a water fast is and kind of like the gist of the benefits and health and why people should recommend putting it into their life?

Yeah, so I think the biggest thing is we live in a culture and society where there's certainly an excess of food, excess of sugar, excess of processed foods, lots of things that aren't necessarily so healthy for your body. And so even for people who don't eat as healthy as they could, healthily as they could, The water fast is really good for a reset, so it can be a metabolic reset. It can help to, with your, with your mitochondrial health. It can help to mobilize fat over time. It's a dopamine reset because you're getting all the sugar outta your system. It's also a really good, and with that dopamine pathway, it's really good for shifting. If you're someone who has a lot of cravings cuz you do a lot of carbs in your life, it really helps to differentiate between hunger and craving. Because you get the cravings outta your system. And it's good for autophagy as well, the longer that you do it because that helps to sort of scavenge the not so healthy cells that are in your body. Because over time we all get, you know, oxidation, use big science words. Oh, that works.

No, they're good. They're good.

But you get cellular damage over time. And what this does is the autophagy is a big fancy word for kind of you're taking out the trash in your body. So you're cleaning up those kind of scavenger cells or dead cells and, and moving 'em outta the body and allowing for more healthy cells to flourish. There's some thought that it can really help to prevent cancer. And then there's so many layers to why you can do it. And it's a, it's a, it's pretty varied and kind of depending upon how long you do the fast, there's different kinds of benefits. And so looking at what you're doing for the fast, I think it's at the 24-hour mark you start to do the fat burn at 36 hours. I think it's, where you get into the dopamine reset. And then after, um, 48 hours, I believe it's that you reset your immune system. Yeah. So depending upon what you're looking to do, but it's also, some people do intermittent fasting in general. So this is a, obviously a lengthier reset to help your overall health and wellbeing. And kind of the biggest thing, as you and I were talking about yesterday, um, is not only doing this as a health reset, but then really looking at, okay, then what am I gonna do after? Yeah. Because if you're doing the reset, you can use it. It also helps your microbiome. I mean, there's so many, like, I could go on and on about all the benefits of it.

Yeah, definitely.

But I think the big thing that people talk about is like, oh my God, how do you do that? Like you water fast? Like I couldn't go without one meal. And like we talked about, the first 24 hours is really the hardest because you have some cravings, like your blood sugar drops and you're like, you might feel a little lightheaded or dizzy. And so the most important things are to get electrolytes. And we can say which kinds we use or not. I don't know if we have to get into the brands, but certainly ask if you have questions. Anthony Goldner will be happy to share. But I think getting electrolytes, hydrating well, drinking tea, not with honey, but just plain tea. You can do boiled—

I made that mistake—

if you really need to, or salted water like you do, the Celtic salt and just water. But there's different ways that you can hydrate to keep your kind of water inside your bloodstream so that you don't feel that lightheaded or dizzy feeling when you're water fasting. But you don't wanna do it for too long. Once you get past about 5 days, then it's better to be medically supervised. So the 24-hour or 36-hour or 72-hour, even up to like 5 days is fine, especially for someone who's healthy. But if you have medical conditions or if you're going to do more of an extended fast, um, and there's great books, and I don't know if you want to post them kind of after we're done.

Yeah, I know, we'll definitely do that.

There's Fast This Way by Dave Asprey, which is really good, and it talks about fasting for both men and women. There's— I can't remember the name of it, but it's by Jason Fung. It's, I think, The Guide to Fasting.

Okay. Yeah. I, I think you, you posted that one. Yes.

I think it's the Complete Guide to Fasting. Yeah. And then the last one is Mindy Pelz and it's Fast Like a Girl. Mm-hmm. And so that goes over a lot more of the hormonal changes that women have and when it's best in your cycle and all of that. And so you can get into the details of when it, um, is best for you. And so I think those are really helpful to augment if you're gonna do a fast to really look at how do I do this smartly? And then I think the big thing is once you've done the fast, like how do you come off of it and actually optimize? You've done this really healthy reset. Mm-hmm. A bag of Doritos and a Coke is not your, your after fasting meal.

But it sounds so good when you get off the fast.

Actually, it doesn't, 'cause you've been super clean and you're like, I don't wanna mess it up. Yep. Um, and so doing, you know, non-refined carbs. So like today when I went off the fast, I had eggs and sweet potatoes and avocado. And then a coffee with some cream in it. And so doing healthy fat, delicious, good protein.

Oh, her meal looked delicious. She sent me the meal and I was like, I started, I started drooling. I was like, I still got more time, but it looked amazing.

Well, I said, when you're on the fast, you don't talk about the fast. And then I sent you a picture of food. Really nice of me.

Yep. It works out. It's okay.

But I think the other piece, which we, we've talked about, is also doing it in community. So doing a fast can be challenging. And so if you have someone to text or to call or be in a group to be like, okay, I'm really struggling today, or, oh, I tried this new thing and it's really working. Like, um, the other big thing is you don't wanna do a lot of exercise when you're on the fast, uh, because you don't have glycogen stores after the first 12 to 24 hours. Most of your glycogen stores are gone, which for those of you who don't know, that's how you store glucose in your muscles to act and in your liver to supply your body, body with glucose for periods of time when you don't eat. And you exhaust all of those. And so then you don't have a lot of reserve and then that's why your body starts to use the fat cells or the fat storage to provide energy to burn. And that's how you get into ketosis. So for people who've done keto, it feels a little bit like that. So the first 12 to 24 hours you're like, okay, I'm a little bit hungry.

Yes. No, I was starving.

I think, well, and especially cuz you're pretty active too. Yeah. And you know, planning it around when you don't have as crazy of a schedule, when you're not as physically active, when you don't have You know, if you have any kind of physical activity thing where you're going on a bike ride or a long run or anything like that, you do not wanna fast during that time. Mm-hmm. Um, there's something else I was gonna say kind of related to that. Uh, I don't remember anyway. Uh, but there's times to do it and times not to do it. Yeah. But having the support of a community to kind of talk through, okay, this is where I'm struggling. And then having someone say, oh, did you try this? Or did you try this? Or. I mean, I even one night I was like, okay, I'm starting to feel a little hungry. I'm just gonna go to bed earlier.

Yeah.

So getting a little extra rest during that time isn't, isn't a bad idea. And it allows your body to continue to heal during the sleep time.

Yeah, it's been very instrumental in speaking with you and going back and forth and bouncing ideas off of each other because yeah, like I've already done a couple of these now, but every single time I feel like I learn something new and my body transitions and changes a little bit more and I feel like I'm getting more out of it every single time. Oh, so that whole community basis has been amazing because of it.

Yeah. The other thing I was going to say is as you like get the carbs outta your system and you lose the glycogen stores and you get into more ketotic state, typically tend— people tend to feel really good. Their energy level is good and they kind of have this place of focus or clarity that when you have a lot of carbs in your system, you tend to be a little more sluggish. And so there's clarity because you're getting the carbs outta your system and because you're burning more like fat for your energy. And so people do notice a big difference that they're like, oh, I feel cleaner. I feel, you know, my energy's good. And that can only last so long. I mean, you still will have moments where you feel hungry, but in general, the focus and clarity is actually really significantly improved getting a lot of the not so good stuff outta your diet. Yeah.

Oh, so is that why when we have that big Chinese meal, And then we just feel so bogged down afterwards. It's all those carbs and everything else that we put into our body.

I'm butting my pants. Everything too, depending on when you eat for Chinese food. A lot of times they put MSG or other preservatives in it, which make people not feel so good. People that are prone to migraine headaches, MSG can be really devastating for them. And so it just depends. And also if they're having, which, you know, you and I have had lots of conversations about this, but the quality of the food that you're eating and a lot of restaurants when you eat out, I mean, I think it's kind of, a little bit, you feel not that good, not just with Chinese food, but kind of with any time you eat out. Yeah, yeah. Because most restaurants aren't doing, you know, grass-fed beef, they're not doing pasture-raised chickens. And especially, I mean, it's gotten to be super expensive to get cleaner food, and so you have to prioritize which things that you get that are cleaner. But I think anytime you eat out, they tend to add more seed oils, they tend to add more butter, more salt, more sugar, or high fructose corn syrup. So when you're eating out, the quality of the food isn't as high as what you can do when you're preparing your own food at home. Yeah.

No, no, I was just gonna agree with that. And then I remember when we went out for one of our dates during, uh, Project 33 Extreme and we went to a really nice restaurant. We're like, okay, it shouldn't be any problem. I don't believe that they're gonna really cook with seed oils. Well, we were like, oh, can you not, like, what kind of oil do you guys use? And we're like, we have a severe allergy to that. And it was just like, you felt, we felt so awkward trying to, you know, ask and have them adjust to something like that. And they kind of like looked at us funny and I'm like, well, well, first of all, you're in Malibu, so I figure you're gonna get more of the, those questions of people asking about it. 'Cause you know, people are trying to get more healthy and make healthier choices.

Yeah. And it's typically like canola oil or sunflower oil. Yeah. Peanut oil. Anyway. But yeah, it's easier to know what's going into your food when you cook it from scratch at home. And with, you know, young families, a lot of times when you're super busy, it's nice to be able to get something to go. And so it's also being smart and going to places that tend to use less of that and that you can kind of look up online. And I don't know if you guys have a— that might be something to provide to your readership or your listenership.

Yeah.

A list of restaurants that tend to do a little bit healthier takeout meals.

That's a great idea.

I mean, we live in Boulder, or I live in Boulder, Colorado, and there's definitely some that are much better here than others. And so we tend to go to the places, or I tend to— my kids don't care so much. Yeah, and it's hard because as a parent I want them to eat super healthy too, but they're teenagers so they boycott mom's decisions.

Sometimes that fast food restaurant sounds so much better and looks better.

Hot Cheetos and Red Bull.

Yeah, well Yeah.

We don't sell Cheetos in our house, but yeah.

As you know what they put inside the food, that, that's why we start to crave it and we want it more and more because of what's put into it. I mean, it's, they're a business. There, there's a reason why, like drugs, they make so much money. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it, it hits the dopamine centers a lot of times.

Yeah.

So the caffeine, the sugar, and I mean, I think it was in 19, in the mid-1980s when they changed the food pyramid or to the food pyramid, which was like way heavier in carbs. And then they changed it to like way heavier in fats. But when all that, you know, low-fat craze, which everything was then super carborific, it really changed how things are. And then we started using a lot more high fructose corn syrup in our food supply. And I don't wanna get all political, but like there's a lot of stuff in the government right now where there's food subsidies. And so it's cheaper to put corn and corn syrup into things than to actually have used like real sugar, which I'm not saying sugar's great either, but at least it's more pure than the high fructose corn syrup, which is manufactured a lot of times GMO corn that's used for it. And it's just cheaper, but it's not really healthy for you and it tends to be more addictive and they add more salt and more fat and more sugar and that's how they get you to then get addicted to things or crave things. So the fast helps to flush all that outta your system.

It does.

Which is why then it's really important is it's not, you know, vital, but it's good if you can then stay on a much cleaner diet afterwards. And like the longer fasts, like we've talked about for, you know, doing a 3 to 5 day fast, probably doing that like once a quarter or a couple times a year. Like you don't wanna do it all the time. But some people do. And we were talking a little bit about the intermittent fasting. With the intermittent fasting, you can do, some people do like a 16-hour window of fasting and then 8 hours where you're eating. And they use it for weight loss or kind of cleaning things up in their diet as well. Um, and just kind of making some metabolic shifts. It's easier for men than it is for women, especially if they're cycling. Um, and then when Mandy Peltzer's book talks about that, um, and kind of for women you have to trick it a little bit. So you could do OMAD, which is one meal a day. You can do the 16:8, you can do 24, so you're 20 hours off, or, and then 4 hours eating window. So you would do like lunch and dinner or breakfast and lunch depending on how you wanna do it. Or you can do the one meal a day and then you could do the 24 to 36 hour fast. So you kind of fluctuate it. Yeah. But you have to kind of go what works for your schedule, what works for your lifestyle and how you feel. I think, so we had someone that was doing the fast with us and she was like, oh, at 48 hours I threw up. I felt really sick. Like my body felt super weak. Oh. And I was like, she goes, so I real feel, feel really bad cuz I, We had talked about what to eat when you come off and she's like, I had some avocado and some eggs. I was like, sweet. I'm like, listen to your body. Like there's different times when you're gonna be in a place where it serves you well. And if it's not serving you, don't do it. I, I mean, we wanna go the final percent of things, but not if it's at your own detriment. Like you need to take care of yourself. And with health and wellbeing, like you're the expert of your body. And so really listening when your body says, mm, not so good, people. Um, and so she felt great the next day. After doing a 48-hour fast and it was the longest she'd done, or it was double the one she'd done before. And I was like, give yourself lots of credit and you know, you'll try another time. But right now your body said 48 hours is enough.

Thanks.

Yep.

But I think that's the most important thing is, is listening to your body.

That's right. Agreed. I wish I would've like said that out loud when the first time I did a fast right after I had Laney. Mm-hmm. When, uh, we were getting ready to start 75 Hard, we were doing a 3-day fast and I think I, almost made it a full 2 days, but I was still newly-ish postpartum with Laney because we did it and started in January. Yeah, did we start—

it was in January.

Okay, so we started in January. I had Laney, uh, early October, so I was a few months postpartum, but— and I had just got off of nursing. And so starting that, doing no caffeine, no food, um, and postpartum, I'm like I'm like, mm, what was I thinking?

I'm like, termination.

He was like, babe, you got this. So I was like, not really. Do you want me to bite your head off? Do you want me to rip the roof off this house? Like, I got angry. I got angry. The emotions and the hormones really hit me hard on top of that. And at the time, I think my mindset was not as great as it is now. In fact, I know it wasn't as great, you know, because the, the shifts. Um, but yeah, no, I went straight into eating after that. I couldn't wait. I was like, nope, you know what, go you, I will root for you from the sidelines, but I can't—

I'm done.

Huh? Hey, but I'm done.

Yeah, exactly. I'm done. I'm done.

I think that's why community is super helpful too. Like, don't shame yourself. It's a lot. You have to give a lot of grace. And if it's something that's new and doesn't feel comfortable, you do the best you can and then you try again. And, and I don't like the word try actually, cuz there's, you know, the whole Yoda, it's do or do not.

Yeah.

You're like, do or do not. You learn from your experience so then you can enhance and do things better. Like sometimes it's better prep, but I, I think, you know, uh, Anthony and I were talking yesterday about, and it's one of the things that's most important for women is that hormones are made from carbohydrates. And so if you're in kind of an already off hormonal place, which is why Mindy Peltzer wrote the book about Women Like Fasting Like a Girl because it's different. Mm-hmm. You know, we're not just smaller men. Like, yeah, we're, our hormones are different, our bodies and physiology are different. And so it's important to really listen to your body. And that's why carbs are important, but you just don't wanna do simple carbs. So lots of sugars and lots of really sweet things, but you wanna do complex carbs. So doing things like sweet potato, you know, berries, things that are healthier for you. Um, for the carb sources, like I'm not a no-carb keto person in general cuz it, I think it can work well for people short-term, but long-term it's not really sustainable. Yeah. Right. But I think everybody's different. Like you have to figure out something that you'll do that you like. Mm-hmm. Uh, cuz some people wanna do vegan, some people wanna do paleo, some people wanna do keto. So I mean, some people will do carnivore, some people wanna do Mediterranean and they're all fine, but it's a matter of what works in your lifestyle, what are you gonna do consistently and what are you gonna follow and what can you do well for yourself? And so I think the more important thing is finding something that resonates with you than being an absolutist and doing it cuz somebody told you to.

Right. No, I agree with that. And I think that's something that we've talked with our friends before when they've come to us for like health and fitness advice and we're like, well, everybody's different and you have to do what works for you. Because if it doesn't work for you, you're not gonna be as interested in it and you're not gonna care. You're not going to give it your best. And then you're not going to get the results that you want because you're not, you're not enjoying the process.

Right. Absolutely true.

So question for you, since we're on this health, health and wellness, uh, sphere of things, what are some misconceptions or like what are you thinking? Like kind of like the biggest misconceptions that you hear, um, nowadays, especially with you mentioned it with the quote unquote like political shift or with things changing and people are becoming a little bit more aware of what we are eating and drinking. Do you still see, or what do you think are, is like the biggest misconception in everything?

That's a tough question. I mean, there's a lot of variance around things, but I think, I don't know if I would say it's a misconception, but I would say the biggest challenge is really our food supply. Like, I think it's important to be really discerning about where you get your food and what kind of food you get, to read labels. Like for me, the most important thing is to really do whole foods or things that you know what the ingredients are. So if you have processed food, you wanna look at the ingredients on the package. If it has like 30 ingredients and you can't pronounce half of them, probably best to just— Yeah.

So that's always my biggest one. It's like, I can't even, I don't even know what these words mean.

You're like, well, that probably means there's tons of preservatives. And so a good tip for that, which most people— not everybody knows, but I feel like people should know this, but a lot of people don't know. And I don't like the word should either. It's a shame word.

Well, yeah, let's see.

Let's hear it. Yeah. If you go to the grocery store, you want to shop the perimeter because the perimeter is fruits and vegetables, dairy, meat. And so you're avoiding all the processed stuff that's in there. Like, now, if you need to go get olive oil and you need some mustard and you need, like, whatever, like, there are certain things that are going to be in those middle aisles. But if you go up and down the middle aisles, like most of them are processed food. And so most of the whole foods are going to be around the perimeter. And so when we— like historically when I worked with people to teach them how to eat healthier, it's shop the perimeter, get, you know, shop from a list is also really important. So that, you know, and don't shop when you're hungry. Like, how do you go to the grocery store?

That's, that's this guy. If I go to Costco while hungry, the bill is going to be high. It's going to be up there.

And some of the things you choose aren't going to be as healthy. You're going to choose things that are starchy or have sugar. And so typically you want to limit what's on the ingredient list. You want to look for organic. Those are the things that are the most helpful, I think. But so it's not really a misconception per se, but I think it's just maybe there's a lack of understanding about all of the stuff that I, I don't think the FDA has done the best job. There's unfortunately a lot of people who are lobbyists around the food industry and that it's a big moneymaker for a lot of people. Yeah. And so I think our health and wellbeing has not been protected by the government with a lot of that stuff. And so it's important to learn enough yourself at how best to eat and how to take care of your family. And that's usually whole food, limiting the ingredients, cooking more and eating more at home. So I'd say that's probably one of the biggest things.

That makes sense. And then what do you think, like, or like, where do you see the future going? Like, I, I obviously it's retrospect and a lot could happen, but like, yeah, if I had a crystal ball, I could make— yeah, if we all had a crystal ball, it'd be nice. But like, it seems like they're starting to catch on where like the red dyes are like extremely horrible for us. They're starting to finally ban it. But it's like, if you think about it, like We went out to Italy, um, for our long-belated honeymoon last year and we drank a bunch of wine. We ate a bunch of pasta, pizza, and everything. And like, we never felt bloated. We never felt ill. Like, yes, we were walking around a lot cuz we were touring, but like in general it just felt better. And I feel like we're a little bit behind the 8-ball when it comes to like certain things that are banned.

Yeah. So I think the big thing on that. Is we have GMOs, a lot of the grains, and there's glyphosate, which is Roundup, that's put on a lot of the fields as pesticides, which is why the organic nature of foods is really important. You can also get pasta that's imported from Italy, and that is typically made better. Yeah, you can get organic Italian pasta. But I think that's one of the big things is in Europe they have been more careful about what they let into their food supply. And because of you know, the lobbyists and some of the laws we have in the US, there hasn't been as much protection. But I think people are starting to catch on. And I think, you know, that's one of the things that the government right now is looking at, like, how do we overhaul a lot of this? And I think also with the pasture-raised meats and grass-fed meat and then pasture-raised chickens and eggs, I think people are starting to learn and then doing regenerative farming rather than traditional commercial farming. So that we replete the soil. I mean, there's a ton of books you can read about, probably the most, um, the easiest read, and then with some health benefits as well. I can't remember the name of the book, something with food in the title, but it's Mark Hyman. He's a physician who's a functional medicine doc, um, and does a lot around regenerative farming. But it's, you know, our soil, like the food that we eat, even if it's grown in our soil, most of it's not as nutritious unless it comes from a regenerative farm, just in terms of the minerals that you get from it. The soil is different than, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago. And so I think that's something that a lot of people are really looking at is how do we overhaul our production systems for food? And I mean, we're one of the countries that has the best access to food, but the food we have access to is really sugary. High in fat, high in salt. And so I think people are starting to understand, but I think as a culture we have to demand healthier, cleaner food. And so my hope— I wish I had a crystal ball that said yes, that's what's going to happen. My hope is that there will be better farming practices and that we'll get back to more regenerative farms and whole foods and better organic sources., but it does cost more for the farmers. I mean, actually it doesn't cost a lot more, but it costs more in the, in the stores, um, because there's a limited amount of organic and regenerative farms because they have to jump through a lot of hoops to be qualified as, or certified as organic. But I think that would be my biggest hope for the future is that, um, there's enough, um, voices from our culture/population to say, hey, we want better. We want better for us and we want better for our kids.

Yeah, well, we deserve better. Yeah, we deserve better.

Our kids live healthy lives. Yep. Well, and if you look at, um, kind of overall as a healthcare provider or as a doc for many years and having been a dietitian before and then doing health coaching and then doing population health stuff now I think we're behind the 8-ball if we don't work on making changes. And kind of, I feel like a lot of our healthcare delivery system these days is actually a sick care delivery system. And the way that we actually help people be healthy is we reduce inflammation, we promote health, we give people the right building blocks for their nutrition and wellness, we get people to be more active. I think You know, getting into another controversial topic, but screen time is incredibly high. People have a ton of stress. People aren't sleeping as well. I mean, I feel like 50 to 70% of medical conditions could get better if people could just sleep.

Oh, 100%.

I, I feel that.

Oh my God. All the hours that I work, when I actually sleep, it's, it's night and day. You never sore.

And it allows your body to heal itself. And so I think there's so many layers to it, but I think You know, it's, it's a multi-billion dollar industry, the wellness industry, but healthcare isn't wellness. Mm-hmm. People are seeking wellness on their own outside of their healthcare costs. The healthcare is really like if you get sick and end up in the hospital, or if you have a cold or, and there's certainly a place for Western medicine. Like I didn't study for a freaking long time to say there's no, it doesn't have any value. Like, do you mean a trauma? You're in a car accident or you fall off a roof or something? Like you are so grateful for the American medical system. Of course. When you come in and you have metabolic issues like diabetes or inflammatory joint disease and some other things, like, and they try to throw pills at you, a better overhaul is really to look at how do I overhaul what I'm doing around stress and sleep and eating and hydration and all the other things. I mean, another book that we've talked about is called Good Energy. It's Casey Means, Means, Means. Um, and it's really about how do you— she saw a ton of stuff. She was a physician as well, and she actually quit during the last year of residency because she was like, we're not actually helping people, we're just trying to do surgery on them. Like, how do you actually help people? And if you can overhaul so many of the other elements— so nutrition, exercise, hydration, sleep, etc.— you can actually— and really working on mindfulness and stress reduction, um, you can overhaul your health in a way that's so much more powerful than by taking some meds. Because meds are like a bandaid for the underlying problems. And the way that we actually promote wellness is to teach people, how do you actually prevent these things from happening? How do you take care of yourself and get rid of the root of the problem?

Yeah, we, we love that. And that's kind of what we've been focused on more recently is changing out a lot of the, um, like pots and pans and a lot of the plasticware and just changing a lot of the things so that we're way— we can do and be on that preventative side. Rather than wait until we have the inflammation through the roof or chronic pain because of what we've been living with the past, you know, 20, 30 years.

Yeah. So like storage stuff is better to use glass.

Mm-hmm.

I would never ever cook in the microwave with plastic. I mean, some people say never ever cook in the microwave at all. I think reheating some things, meat doesn't do very well in the microwave. Mm-hmm. But I think in general, if you can cook it on the stove, it's better. But never cook in plastic in the microwave cuz so then stuff melts from the plastic or gets in and contaminates the food. So glass is always better if you're going to eat something in the microwave. But yeah, I mean, there's, there's a lot of environmental triggers too.

Yeah.

One thing for us, like we started making those small like changes little by little because trying to do it all at once, it's overwhelming, it's costly. And we were just like, okay, well, like what are the first couple of things that we can start adjusting? And we got rid of all of our Tupperware and now we have glassware. For our storage. And I love it so much more because now, like, what we realized is food being stored in the plastic— now the plastic containers are absorbing the flavors, absorbing the scents. And no matter how well you wash it, it sticks with the containers. And now we don't have that issue with the glass, and I love that. And then switching our cutting boards, that was another thing. Like, we had the plastic ones, and from, you know, cutting away, now you're getting like threads of the plastic cutting board into your food, and we weren't even catching that. The other day you told me, he's like, babe, we need to get new cooking utensils. The spatula, there was a shred of the plastic that got into my eggs this morning. I'm like, you got it, I'll get on top of that. So we're like, no more plastic. And some people are like, gosh, you're being so extreme. We're like, well, no, we're really just taking our our health and wellness too seriously into our hands. Probably, yeah, to the level that we care about. Like, we care about longevity, we care about the health of our kids, and we want to pass, you know, teach them those habits now, and they can pass it on to the next generation after that.

This is kind of the whole philosophy of garbage in, garbage out. Yeah, yeah. When you, you get to choose what you put into your body, and like, kind of segueing into some of the personal growth stuff, like it's not just about what you eat, it's what you drink, it's what you watch, it's what you read. So, you know, if you're watching tons of Netflix and you're reading, you know, trashy novels, which sounds judgmental and it's not meant to be, as opposed to like stuff where you're actually learning something, um, or you're spending a lot of time in front of the screens, like if you put good things in, it actually helps your brain, it helps you shift your mindset. Um, which is another great book.

Yeah.

I killed Slack. Um, anyway, but a lot of those things, it's, if you're putting a lot of good things in, you're gonna get a lot of good things out. And so it's really being mindful of what you put into your body in all ways.

Yeah.

In your mouth, your eyes, your ears.

So since you kind of segued into it, um, the personal development and mindset and what have you, uh, you mentioned that you, um, partnered into a kind of like a mastermind group, a personal development group, and then you're kind of creating your own as well. Do you mind talking a little bit on that?

So probably a lot of your listeners already know about the Final Percent. You've talked about— talked about that. We're talking about the Vitality, but of course I'm business partners with Greg Kimball and have been with the Final Percent for a long time. And, you know, when I was health coaching, I started on my own personal growth journey probably like 12 years ago and You know, making those shifts, it's made me a better parent. It's made my health better. I mean, it's, it, it impacts every part of your life. My fitness was better. I did CrossFit for a lot of years, which was, you know, hard on my body, but also I was really good about setting limits, um, on things. Like some of the young Whippersnapper coaches would be like, you need to do this. And I was like, yeah, I'm pretty good with my body. They're like, and I'm like, I never keep track of my PRs. And they're like, why do you keep track? I said, I don't care. I'm strong enough to do the things I want to, which is the most important thing for me. For me, it was about functional movement and getting stronger and being able to ski and ride my bike and do all the things I wanted to do. But yeah, I mean, the personal growth piece, it bleeds over into so many elements. It makes you a better parent. It makes you better in your job. It makes you better in your relationships. And then as a physician, health coach, life coach, business coach now, doing a lot of leadership stuff in my current role. I can also do business coaching, but inside of The Final Percent, the vitality aspect in the Infinity Model is the area that I focus on a lot. And we're starting a vitality mastermind, it's called Vital Vitality, that people can join. And it's really to start conversations around health, to talk about a lot of these things. We're going to do challenges around sleep, around exercise, around hydration, all kinds of things. And it's an opportunity to sit down and talk with me and kind of pick my brain about stuff. You can— it'll be an open dialogue. We'll have two meetings a month where people can ask kind of whatever questions in a pretty intimate environment. And then I'll do consultations with people too on the side if people are interested in talking about stuff kind of more personal or offline where they don't have to do it in a group. But we're excited about it. It's going to be super fun to really share a lot of years of knowledge. And I mean, during COVID too, I did a lot of stuff around biohacking and functional medicine. And so I'm not a Western medicine only approach, as you can tell from the conversations. Yeah, really, it's looking at, you know, doing cold plunges, doing heat therapy and red light therapy, like doing all kinds of things that it's not just one thing, doing meditation. You know, I have a BioMat. There's so many doing sound baths. There's so many things that you can do to improve your overall health and wellbeing that aren't standard. And I think the, you know, Eastern countries have done a really good job of a lot of this for many, many years. And some of those customs are really just kind of having rapid growth in the US, but the ability to kind of yoga, sound baths, a lot of the meditation practices, tai chi, even. Um, it really can make a huge difference for helping to reset your nervous system. And I think there's so many ways that you can do it, but one way is also not overstimulating your nervous system, which as a culture we're not very good at. We overstimulate our systems all the time with food and—

Yeah, with everything. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the things, I mean, we've already talked about it, um, that we've transitioned to is like on, on the floor right below our desk is we have a grounding mat and then we got a grounding mat for our bed. And just those little things that you, you may not realize that they're actually making a huge difference. And I love that, that aspect of it with the mastermind where you're, you're, you're able to talk about the vast knowledge of, yeah, you wanna talk about Western medicine, like do you have certain ailments that you do need it? You can totally touch into that. But then we can also talk about the, you know, biohacking and the various trends that are out there. And we can like pick your brain and be like, is this actually good for us? Is this not like, Is this gonna work out? Like, is this just one of those trendy things? Like, that's what I loved about, you know, speaking with you and talking with you on the side as well, is we can really dive into the areas that are gonna benefit us without trying to do everything all at once. Like, so do you, are you telling me I need to go get a sauna right now, jump in the sauna for 30 minutes, and I just gotta jump into the cold plunge and I gotta do the cold plunge for 20 minutes? It's like, oh, there's a lot going on here.

So, and I think kind of like what you said, Bri, too, is, you know, when you did 75 Hard, you try to change everything all at once and it felt so overwhelming. I think the goal is, you know, I can talk about lots and lots of things, but I usually recommend people do the gradual approach. Like you said, you know, you changed out your pots and pans and then you changed out your storage containers. Like if you picked one thing a month to do, it's 12 changes over a year, but the change in your life can be like astronomical., but it doesn't feel as extreme as like, okay, I'm gonna do all this exercise. I'm gonna do all this, you know, adding everything all at once, doing the fasting, doing, you know, the reading. You don't have to do all of it day one. You look at, okay, what are areas that I could utilize some improvement? And then what am I gonna change each month over the year? Which is, it feels easier. I mean, it's still work and some of this stuff is not easy, but it's simple to make changes, but it's not always easy. And then that's the benefit of being in the final percent. And in a group where you can talk to people about, okay, this has been hard for me because of these reasons. How did you do it that worked? Yes. Um, and just to have the support to say, okay, you got this. We're going to talk it through together and we're going to help support you and encourage you and have cheerleaders. Like you want people in your front row clapping when you're doing awesome. And so like if you make a bunch of big changes and you're noticing the benefits, like we had somebody else who joined the fast and she did 40 hours and she'd never done one before and she was like, I feel great today. I'm so proud of myself. Like, and then she got on the scale and it was the lowest she'd been in a long time. Right. So she was like on cloud nine yesterday. And she was like, at the beginning she's like, I don't think I could do this. Well, maybe I'll try. And then at the end she was like, oh my God, I'm gonna do it next month when you guys start.

It was huge. I felt so proud of her too. Like, I was extremely excited. I was like, this is why you do have the mastermind that you have. This is why we have the community. Like, for this to happen. And this is what we try to push for other people is like, hey, find those people, whether it's us, whether it's you or somebody else, like find those people that are going to push you to that next level.

And sometimes it's just exposure. Like you just don't know when you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. And so having people introduce you to things, you'll be like, oh, that feels like something I would really like. Ooh, I am not doing that. Yeah. And that's okay because everybody has different likes, desires, needs, whatever. And so it's finding things that can enhance and implement good change in your own life, but it's something that you'll actually do. And then one thing that I was thinking about when we were talking about some of this other stuff, and we're not gonna have a lot of time to talk about it, but I think it's important to point out as a Western medicine doc. Yeah. Who really looks at things from a more holistic perspective.

Mm-hmm.

Um, one of the things I think that causes a lot of Challenges around people's health is trauma from their childhood. Um, and I think people don't understand how much that impacts their overall health and wellbeing. And I'm not saying you need to go on meds for it, but like you need to talk it through and process. 'Cause I think a lot of retained trauma is what causes a lot of the autoimmune disorders, a lot of the inflammation. And I don't think enough Western medicine doctors talk about it. We talk about, here's a pill to make this better. And oh, change your diet and oh, get some exercise. But if you actually look at how many people are suffering from challenges from when they were young, and even if you just ask and, um, let people have the opportunity to talk it through, it can be life-changing for them because you'll be the first person who's asked and supported them through that. So a lot of times when people are having a lot of health issues, one of the things to really look at or address either with a therapist or with their own physician is to really talk about like, here's some stuff that happened to me. I need to get some support and help around this. And it's amazing how much even just processing through some stuff that's happened can actually make a huge difference in their overall health and wellbeing. Yeah.

Well, I think just for them to, to actually voice it rather than just keeping it all bottled up and keeping it compartmentalized. Yep. The fact that they get to say it out loud and realize, oh crap, these are the issues that I am actually dealing with and they're affecting other areas of my life, like help me figure this out.

Yeah. And then to get the support to work through it. I think that's a big part of it, that they're not holding onto it by themselves.

Yes.

So they're not in it alone.

Yep. Totally. So curious, as we wrap up here, what are your long-term goals? Um, whether or not in the medical field, whether or not as a natural healer, like where do you see, or, and what are your like long-term goals?

Well, getting my kids off to college. One went away this year, my daughter, um, so almost there, successful raising my kids. But I think in terms of like, um, more professional goals, yeah, and personal goals, I mean, The Final Percent has been such a big part of my life the last 5 to 10 years, um, to really work on helping to get personal growth into the hands of everyone. Yes. Um, and to really be a voice of truth, but also a voice of reason around health and wellness. I like that. I like that. That's good. Not being extreme about it and really helping people figure out what in my life do I actually need to change to get better?

Or what am I willing? That's good right there. What are you willing?

Yeah. Cause to get better, cuz I can tell people like, I'm not in my, when I was in clinical practice, I was never a paternalistic type doctor where I would say, this is what you have to do and here's the pill or here's the script. I'd be like, well, here's the 3 things you could do. What do you think? And sometimes they'd be like, well, can't you just tell me? Oh yeah. Like, well, but you're gonna buy in a lot better if it's something you're willing to do. Yeah. Or something you're interested in doing. And so for me, my approach has always been like, what are you willing to do and how do I best help and support you to do that?

Well, that's awesome. I like that approach.

Yeah.

I think more people need to have doctors like you and need to have more people in their life like you or their, giving them some options like, hey, like, what, what is going to help you?

Yeah, I'll help guide you from there. Yeah, that's awesome. And then lastly, where do you see yourself in 10 years?

Um, physically, like, where am I living?

Hey, all of the above. It could be anything. Are you gonna be on a beach in Hawaii?

I, I don't know. Like, I don't even know. It's so, so interesting to think about because, you know, looking back at my life 10 years ago Things are very different now than I would have imagined. Certainly, you know, my kids will be grown and I might have grandbabies.

That feels a little—

it's possible. Yeah. A new love in my life. Yeah. You know, second home on a beach.

Oof.

I love that idea. Yeah. Lots of skiing, lots of travel. I mean, I think a big thing for me is travel because I love meeting new people, learning about new places. It's probably one of the things that I did when I was young that I think really shaped me to look at things from very different perspectives. Because in every country that you go to, the cultures handle things differently. And in so many places, the people are so welcoming, even when they have very little of their own. They give you the shirt off their back because they just want to talk to you, especially if you're from America, which, you know, Um, I hope that stays. I want to talk to you because you're from America. Uh, but I think, um, the travel piece for me is really big, so I look forward to doing more of that as the kids are out of the house and, um, as I have a little bit more time freedom. Awesome.

I love it. Well, thank you for coming on and joining us. I enjoyed chatting with you today.

Yeah, we could probably chat for hours. We didn't even touch for hours talking about kids stuff, which we could do another time.

I was just thinking the same thing, is we might need to do like a parenting slash kid, uh, episode later on because you have a wealth of knowledge. Yeah. So thanks again for joining us. Anytime.

All right, take care. Bye.