10 Things Entrepreneur Should Remember Before Doing Any Start-up in 2021| The Ask Avi Arya Show

One can get too obsessed about valuation, and that can get you off track because real valuation will happen if you as a startup or if your startup has created value. Hey, guys.

This is Avi Arya, father of two girls, six dogs, husband to a superwoman, a streetcar racer turned hotelier, now social media marketer and founder of Internet Moguls. Welcome to my channel. I hope you're all doing well. Welcome to another masterclass of the Thursday masterclass, the Internet Moguls of the World. How are you all doing today? In the comments, please. I know we're all going through tough times and challenging times and rough situations, and I know a lot of people are not able to make it for today's call.

But.

But for all of you people who chose to, despite everything else, show up, I appreciate your time. I appreciate the effort. Today's special guest is Mr. Sanjay Mehta. And the gentleman is going to grace us with his presence and his knowledge. Sanjay, welcome to the Internet Moguls of the World.

Hi. Hi, Anjit. How are you?

I'm very well. How's everything at your end?

All right? Managing somehow? Managing. Times are tough.

One day at a time.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Right, Right, Sanjay. Thank you very much. Sanjay, you know, we've known each other from afar. You know, met many years ago. You were one of the first people, I think, in the country to have a digital marketing agency and start. So I believe you have a presentation for us where you want to share your story and share your message. We have entrepreneurs from different parts of India. These are all people who have committed themselves to learning. We have a school called the Internet Moguls of the World school where entrepreneurs and their families come and learn how to get known, get leads and get sales on the Internet. And we thought nobody better than you who has walked the path and helped thousands of brands in India and overseas do the same. So, Sanjay, I'll leave the stage to you to introduce yourself and share your presentation. Thank you for everything.

All right, sure. So good evening, everyone. I actually, when I got into conversation with Abhijit's team, what I thought that this being a, you know, the students, all of you being entrepreneurs, I thought the best thing that I could share was my story of entrepreneurship. And so the presentation that I have is. Is around there. And of course specifically to the current work that we mentioned, which is basically digital marketing, it's not being covered in the presentation per se because it's focused more on entrepreneurship. But of course, of the Q and A, if there are any questions on that, I'm Happy to take those as well for now. You know, I have been, I mean I would say what is referred to as a serial entrepreneur. So my first venture in fact was from 1998 till 2007. And in the Internet business this was something called homeindia.com where we were selling, actually we were selling, it was an E commerce site. We were selling Indian products, ethnic Indian products to customers all around the world. So it was, you know, handicraft apparel, you know, jewelry, sarees, dresses, all those things, Indian Indian stuff being shipped from here to any part of the world in a pure B2C manner, delivered to the doorstep of NRIs and even non Indians who were were interested in Indian products. So that was the business and it actually had a lot of ups and downs. It was way ahead of its times. Imagine 1999 was when we set up an E commerce front end with full fledged payment gateway and everything and much before UN Flipkart came into India as well. So you can imagine that it was very early days. So we met with lots of sort of obstacles. And so that journey was what I would refer to as a full fledged roller coaster journey. There were serious ups and downs and because of what we went through, in fact we put together that entire story in the form of a book. And the book is called if I Had to Do It Again. And this is, it's a book which is a summary, summary of all the learnings from that journey, that entrepreneurial journey and what this talk is, is going to be, you know, the excerpts from that in a sense, the learnings, then the nuggets of wisdom from that book is what I'm going to present because that in fact is a journey of entrepreneurship and a lot of learning from there. And it was an Internet business. So I suspect a lot of you or all of you are entrepreneurs in the Internet businesses. Although this business was 1998 to 2007. Some fundamentals do not change. Fundamentals of entrepreneurship do not change. So a lot of that continues to remain valid today as it was in those days. And then like, like I said, after I finish I'm happy to do Q and A where we can handle questions around that as well as anything you want to ask about digital marketing or anything, etc. So with this words, I'll just try and share my screen. So yeah, this, like I said, this is the book. The book was called if I Had to Do It Again and I am going to share some nuggets out of that. So yeah, so this, this the way we so this is my partner Harish. So Harish and I actually go back a long way. We were classmates in college and in engineering college. And then we actually went to the US and happened to be at the same university in the US as well. And then after coming back from the US we spent 10 years in doing different things and then got back together to start this first venture, which was the venture about which this book is. And so the book is also jointly authored by the two of us and we call it Wisdom in Hindsight because this book was written at the end of that journey. After the homeindia.com story was complete for us, it was over. So we were looking back in the form of Wisdom in Hindsight and the learnings from that startup journey, which was of nine years. So the nuggets, wisdom nuggets or entrepreneurship related nuggets essentially are in four key areas. The areas are of course, entrepreneurship to begin with, management. I mean, you know, whether you're an entrepreneur or, you know, or a manager in there, you definitely need to build out your venture, your business and management is a key. Third is the story of partnership. We were two partners. So there are, you know, a lot of times when you're an entrepreneur, the question comes in terms of finding co founders with you and what makes for a good partnership for a startup, those sorts of things. So the nuggets include values around partnership and beyond that there are startup stories, some interesting anecdotes in the journey of that entrepreneurship. So that's what the book is about. So I'm going to give you ten wisdom nuggets one at a time. And it's an attempt to condense the value of the book in this short period of time that I am right now on this panel. Right. So the first nugget as we call it, is that as entrepreneurs we don't write destinies. It is destinies that write us. So what, what does it, what are we trying to say? A lot of times as entrepreneurs we build out these fancy business plans, huge PowerPoint decks and then elaborate Excel sheets. And this is how the business is going to run. The first year I will do this and the second year I will do this and all sorts of things. And of course that's the intent and that's the plan and that's what we are going to set out to do. But the world around us is constantly changing. Some changes are making may make nominal shift for us in our business venture. Some could actually rock us, some could completely. For example, whatever we are going through today if you are a startup entrepreneur in 2020 and with a lot of plans, you know that you've been significantly hit by this thing called the COVID And you know you have to either abandon your plans or completely rework them. Now, Covid may have been like a really, really rare black swan kind of an event, but there are many other phenomena which can happen in, around your business, in your industry that can take you by surprise. Sometimes it's a pleasant surprise, sometimes for, you know, no doing of yours. Suddenly you find yourself in a huge opportunity or you find yourself in a huge challenge. So that's what is how an entrepreneurship journey actually spells out. While we wish that we will write the destiny of our entrepreneurial journey, sometimes it's your action combined with the changes in and around you which actually spell out what really happens as an entrepreneur. So that's the point is a very simple first nugget. The second nugget is, as you can read, it's saying that yes, cash is king, but bootstrapping is a perfectly viable option to build out many kind of businesses. So too often nowadays, you know, I find, you know, I mentor some startup entrepreneurs, I've spoken to several and I've guided several on their journeys. And a lot of times entrepreneurs get bogged down because they say, oh, we can't raise money, it's been difficult to raise money, I'm not getting investors, etc. Now some businesses definitely need money because they are, they are capital intensive to begin with or there is a need for a few lakhs or a few crores or a few million dollars of initial capital. And where of course, if you don't have that kind of capital, then maybe it's a non starter. But there are so many businesses and especially you're in the Internet world, you're in the Internet mogul school. A lot of Internet businesses not necessarily need a lot of cash, right? And if it needs a certain amount of money, you know, there is a way to what is known as bootstrap the business, you know, do from your own resources, earn a little money, put it back into the business and you know, continue to kind of scale with your own money, reach a certain size and scale, make it respectable where investors want to invest in you because you know, you, you've shown a great proof of concept, you build up to a certain level. So the point simply is that don't get bogged down because you don't have money or you couldn't raise money. If anything, an entrepreneur needs to be thinking out of the Box and think that, how can I manage? Okay, money scars, but I have an opportunity, how can I still manage? Right? And that's where bootstrapping comes in. The next nugget is, as it says, is that find a problem to solve, focus on building value. Valuation will be built as a consequence. Okay, now this is again a problem of the times where, you know, you see every other day you open a business newspaper and you see, oh, so, and so startup has become a unicorn. You know, it's like, you know, you know, unicorn like attained a billion dollar valuation and, and some other startup has raised $100 million of investor money. And you know, at this valuation, that valuation, and you might be a startup which is just off the blocks, or you might be in your first initial, first couple of years and there is all this peer pressure of valuation that, oh, how much is my startup valued? And you know, one can get too obsessed about valuation and that can get you off track because real valuation will happen if you as a startup or if your startup has created value. So you create value for your customers, you create value in the business, valuation will follow. So focus on creating value rather than being obsessed with valuation. Valuation will follow value and not the other way around. And to do that, typically, whatever is your business, is it solving a real problem or is it helping your customers to do something better, faster, cheaper? There has to be a real genuine problem to solve. It's not about, oh, this is doing so great in the US I'll make a copy of it. Maybe it's not relevant here. Maybe Indians have a different problem or different set of circumstances where it's not relevant. So figure out really what's the problem that you're trying to solve. Ensure that you focus on that and build value on that and valuation will follow after that. Okay, the next nugget is that a startup is like a mission and in a mission you need missionaries. So whether it's a partner, an investor, your core team, it is important that you ensure that you are working with the right people. Okay, so, okay, let's understand what is, what the meaning of this a mission or you know, you know, you've heard of missionaries. The Christian missionaries we used to came to India and you know, they had, the whole focus was to spread Christianity and all that. You know, that's the stories we have heard now. What are the people who work in these missions? They are significantly like, passionate and obsessed by the purpose of that mission. And they are willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish that mission. That's why they are called missionaries. These are not. So if it's an organization, these are not the kind of people who come and work for a paycheck at the end of the month. They are not here to say, oh, I'm going to do my 9 to 5 and get a paycheck and go. A missionary is, is somebody who says that, okay, you know, this is the journey we are on. What can I do to make that happen? So it's, it's a different set of values, a different set of personal involvement, dedication, everything. And you know, and a startup needs that because in, when you're early stage, you have few people and the few people have to do everything. So if it's a question of, you know, changing the bulb in your, in your office or, or you know, clearing up some mess or writing code for, you know, creating, you know, some database or something, it's the same person, the same persons who have to do everything. You don't say, oh, you know, I need this, I need that, right? So it's, if somebody comes from a corporate and he's looking to have all the, you know, sort of say, material pleasures and I need this, I need that, then that's he's, he or she's probably in the wrong place in a startup. So now why is it important that building the right team who think alike, at least on these kind of issues, is critical? Because if you are the wrong people, you will not move forward. You know, you'll be spending time just figuring things amongst your partners. One things one way, another thing the other way. You will be spending more time just figuring each other out and not really focusing on how to take the business out. Similarly, you think that investor, how can it make a difference? Finally he has to just give money and any kind of money is the same money. Finally it's money. That's not the case because today in a startup, when an investor invests, he has rights to kind of sort of engage with you in decisions related to the business. He holds rights because he's investing at an early stage. He's not just writing a check and, you know, not worrying about it. So now if that investor thinks differently and he keeps, you know, poking, you know, fingers at you or, you know, finding issues, again, you know, things will not move. So whether it's a partner, whether it's investors, whether it's your core team, they all need to be brought, you know, identified and brought together to be people who are thinking alike. So you have that mission and everybody is working like a missionary. Okay, coming to Wisdom Nugget 5. In a fast changing world, and especially in certain sectors like tech businesses, change is a constant. New opportunities beckon all the time. While pursuing any such ones, ensure that you do not lose core business focus. Okay, so let me explain this again. Now you're in some kind of an Internet startup, in an Internet venture, and you know, you're building some product or you're creating some service and you focus on that and suddenly, you know, AI comes in, you know, say, oh my God, AI is the next big thing. I should dabble in AI also. And you kind of get distracted that now if AI is integral to the product that you're building, maybe you can see, okay, how can I adopt AI for my work, for whatever product or service I'm building? But you get distracted. Next time voice technology comes and you get distracted, or something else comes. Especially in the world of Internet and world of digital, every day there are new things happening and each new thing kind of looks more promising than the previous one. And you feel tempted. And you're typically a technocrat who understands technology and says, oh my God, I know I can do this. Now sometimes those might be great opportunities to go and grab, because you are a technology person, you understand it and you might want to go and sort of grab that as an idea. It is possible, but it can't be every, every time. Now, if you're doing that and if it's a significant departure from what your core business is, then it's what is called as a pivot. You're pivoting your business to completely something different. And pivots are very critically, they need to be done with a lot of thought and care because you're kind of giving up what you were working on, what you're building. Right. So is it, are you really sure that you want to give up this and completely go in a different direction? And if it's not a pivot, then you don't get constantly distracted by things which are going on around you. See, if whatever you are pursuing continues to have relevance, continues to have value, then make sure that you do not get defocused from there. And if something new which is coming up can aid that core idea, sure, try to absorb it, but don't keep constantly going left, right, left, right, because then you're not going to be able to build the service or product that you set out to do. Coming to wisdom nugget number six, the entrepreneur is like the kite flyer, handling the kite, both in huge bursts of wind as well as when the wind dies. It is important to not let the kite run away when the wind is strong, and also important to tug away hard and keep the kite afloat when the wind has died. Anybody? I mean, I hope that all of you have flown kites in your life, because if you've done so, you know exactly what I'm talking about, right? That there are times when you're flying a kite and the wind is so strong that it can just take the kite even without too much effort. And sometimes the wind is so bad that you constantly tug away. And then otherwise, you know, kite's going to keep coming down. Now, entrepreneurship is a mix of both when sometimes you have huge momentum behind you and the guide can be going far and fast. Now, at such times, why do you need to be conscious that you know you. So, for example, if you have got tremendous opportunity in your work, you go ahead and, you know, pick up business left, right and center because people are willing to give you business. Supposing you're offering a service and say, okay, do mine, do mine. And you kind of keep picking up business and then you suddenly realize that you do not have the capacity to do all that. You do not have people, or you don't have money, or you do not have office space, and you have gone ahead and committed, you know, a lot of things to your clients, and now you're struggling. And then, you know, you're spoiling your brand, you're smiling your company name and you get into a problem. So if the momentum was there, the opportunities are there, the way to maneuver there is that, okay, I have a lot of opportunities. What do I need? I need to increase my staff strength or I need to get some capital quickly from the bank or whatever so that when I pick up the business, I have the capacity to handle that. So that's when the momentum is hard. And then there are tough times. There are times when, like when the kite wind dies and you have to hold on, you have to struggle. So those are tough times. Like, for example, if you were in a business and you know which which is affected in the COVID it's a tough time, then what do you do? You focus again. See how you can hold things together, how you can sort of get the business to survive. Because if the business survives, there is always going to be another day when things pick up again. But if you don't focus, you don't do the hard work, then there's a risk that you actually destroy the business. So that's the thing that an entrepreneur has to navigate. Both hands the next nugget number seven is that your top resources are what keep you going. And yet sometimes when the business is under pressure and you have to cut costs, you are tempted to let them go. That could be a wrong decision. Right? So you're especially, I'm talking about knowledge businesses like maybe most of ours are, which are, which are dependent on having some really good strong people. Maybe you are your technical architect or maybe your best salesperson or whatever is the relevant key people in your organization. Now they are the ones who actually make the business happen. However, they may be your most expensive people because they are worth that money. Now, times are tough when you figure out how to hold your business together. The first temptation is that I have to cut costs. What is the most expensive person? And you let them go as soon as you do that. And when things improve, now you don't have anybody who's that sharp to bring that business back because you let the best people go. So if there are times of pressure, can you find a different way to handle, can you maybe, you know, work something out with those people that I'll pay you half the salary for these three months. As soon as things pick up, I'll compensate you back. But you know, let's be together or find some other way, something or the other. But letting go of your best people is a surefire way to kind of commit suicide for your business. The next wisdom nugget is that the devil is in the detail. An efficient supply chain, a smarter management of resources are the kind of measures that might see the profit needle move significantly beyond just chasing new sales. Now this is important especially again in Internet businesses and all where the you're seeing around you, your competition and your other businesses in the space are raising a lot of money and just going out and, you know, finding a way to acquire new customers through advertising, through discounts and whatever. Now however, with all that, you, you might not be generating so much profit because money is whatever money and whatever resources you have, you're putting it into customer acquisition or sales or, you know, discounts and all that. Now finally, you want to generate a profitable company. So the meaning of the devil in the detail is that if you, while you're acquiring sales, also if you can figure your supply chain, if you can figure your cost structures, if you can find ways to make them efficient, a small difference in that cost, you know, you save 5% in a transaction because you're running volumes, that 5% will straightaway come to your bottom line and add to your profit. So being able to do that from time to time allows you to sort of make your business efficient and valuable. So sometimes you lose sight of it because your focus is on sales. You know, bring more sales, bring more sales, whereas the back end, the whole operation has not been made efficient. So focus on the operation as well. Coming to ninth wisdom nugget is that don't be shy to ask for help. Reach out to your network for support and guidance. However, note that the network needs to be nurtured with a lot of give and take over time. And also don't expect your network to carry your burden. So this whole nugget is about one is, it's about networking. You know, people networking. So, I mean, I can vouch for it myself. You know, I've been in business now for more than 30 years. That for me, at various points of time in life, I have been able to reach out to a network, ask for help and get help. And I have done that multiple, multiple times. Okay. Because, you know, it's, it's like when you're hitting a, some kind of a roadblock, it may not be easy for you to, you know, simply find an answer in a book or, you know, in some guide. You know, it needs to be responded by somebody who has been there, done that, somebody who has an experience of similar kind or some such unique value and that can be available in the network. It may be not with your first network, but you know, somebody who knows someone. So you pick up a phone or go and reach out and say, hey, you know, you have this friend, I really need to meet him for half an hour because I have a problem, which I think he may be able to guide me on, you know, and like that. So don't be shy. I think a lot of times I've seen entrepreneurs hesitate. Look, if you are going to be hesitating, if you're going to be shy, then, you know, it's like you're, I'm, I'm sorry to be very blunt about this. Maybe entrepreneurship is not for you because that's the last thing you can afford to be. You have to be bold enough to ask. You have to be bold enough to not worry when somebody does not help you and, you know, slams the door in your face. Doesn't matter. Knock the next door. That's it. You just have to ask and somewhere, something, some doors will open and, you know, we'll get the help. So first is to not be shy. And second is about networking, right? Your networking is not about, oh, I go to LinkedIn and you know, connect with somebody and then next thing is I ask him for help. Doesn't work that way. Networking is a lot of give and take. You nurture a network, you become friends. You, you know, you help each other. You help first, then ask. That's how it works. And it, you know, it, it has to be developed over time. It has to be not opportunistic. It's not networking that, okay, today I need some help from Avi. So today I become his friend and then immediately ask him for help. Doesn't work. It has to be multiple, you know, months or years of becoming a friend. Then I feel confident that, you know, now we have a such a comfort with each other. I can say, you know, Avi, can you help me on this? It's like that, you know, and the last thing is, just because you have a network or you have a friend who knows something, doesn't mean that you go and dump your problems in his lap. Okay? So it's not like he's going to carry or she's going to carry your burden. It's going to just give you direction. The person will say, okay, you know, why don't you try this? Maybe you can do that. Expecting that, that person, you know, because you're networking and you know, you know each other, that they will just take it on and you know, you have to be again, free of the burden. No, that's, that's not likely to happen. Okay, so that's the wisdom nugget number nine. And then comes the last wisdom nugget, which is that risks are an integral part of entrepreneurship. Yet it is not about jumping into the fire. With ice closed, assess the worst case scenario of risk, be prepared for that at a fundamental level, and then plunge in and then try to make the best case happen. Okay, so it is said that as you build organization and as you become bigger, in fact, your risk taking ability or your risk appetite should go down because the stakes become higher. You would have built an entrepreneur venture from 0 to 100. Now you built it to 100. Now you can't wager that whole hundred into a risk that will destroy all hundred, right? Because if something goes wrong, then all that hard work is gone, right? So at an early stage, maybe you take a risk and you know, because you have little to lose. But as you grow, you build something and any foolhardy risk can destroy it all. And you know, you're back to square when you don't want to do that. So that's, that's one. But the other thing Is that so? You're, you're at some crossroads. You have two choices. One has a little, one has more risk, one is less risk, but this one can give you a much better opportunity or other benefit as well. So you assess that risk, that. Okay, here is the situation. If something goes wrong, terribly wrong, what is the worst that can happen? Okay, the worst that can happen is that I can have this problem, okay? So that is not going to destroy my organization. I will lose 20% of my value. But that's the worst. Hopefully it doesn't happen and then say, okay, I'm prepared to let that happen if something really goes wrong, and I know that's the maximum that can go wrong, but if things work out well, then I can be plus 50. Okay, so I'm, I'm jumping in with my eyes open, I know what's the downside and then I'm taking the call. If you don't assess that and just jump in and you know, you're surprised that okay can eat away 50% of your value, then you're in a problem. So that's the point that risks have to be taken in that right context. Last couple of slides on partnerships. Like I said, you know, Harish and I have been partner for a long time. So what partnership success, you know, if you have a co founder, if your partners, the partnership success, few ideas. And one is, it's a genuine give and take. It's not that one is exploiting the other or something. It's like, okay, there's a generosity, there's something okay, this time, you know, you know, you take it, you do this, I'll do it next time, you know, opportunities are there, etc. Etc. There is a, there's a genuine give and take to. And it's, it's very, it's from the heart and that's what works. The second thing is to think win, win that you know, if you're a partner, if you say I win at the cost of my partner, that you know, I win and he loses, then you're not partners, you are enemies. You know, you're not into, you know, competition, you're both pursuing the same goal, then you think win, win. And you know that's the only way that you can both benefit and the organization benefits. So that's the second part. Can. Third is about being collaborative. When you say collaborative is that how can you make 1 and 1 to 11, how can you actually help each other to grow and how can you help the organization to grow in the same at the Same time. So that's the next point about making partnership work. And the final point is that, look, with everything, with everything in place, there will be times when you disagree, when both have a different opinion that we should do this or we should do that. And in such a case, how do you, how do you settle? I mean, it happens with husband and wife. It happens between brothers, will happen between business partners. Right. So can you, before you head into a partnership, figure that, what kind of a conflict resolution mechanism do you want to have that when something happened like that, do you have a mechanism that you will have? And, you know, if you sort of, you know, I mean, I'm compressing this for the sake one more slide left, I think, after this. So I'm not getting into detail, but maybe if you have time in Q and A, I can tell you what we used to have in place. But otherwise, like I said, it's in the book, the book which I referred at the beginning, it's got more details about what we had put together between me and my partner. But having that in place is, is important because conflicts are a reality. Don't think that it will never happen. It does happen. Okay, the last part is that, you know, somebody sort of say that, you know, like us, like, you know, we, we invested in this homeindia.com which is what the book is about, that venture, our most productive years. You know, I was in that business in my age from 35 to 44. You know, that's the kind of time of your life where, you know, you would want to make the maximum impact to your personal growth in terms of your, you know, capital base building and, you know, generating the most bang for your time in that period. And we invested those in home India. There was a huge promise. But as it turned out, at the end of the day, the result was not that great. I mean, the book is written about if I had to do it again, because it's a book of entrepreneurship where a lot of hard work, sweat and toil went. But the end game was elusive. We did not get the kind of returns or rewards that we were expecting or hoping and sort of we feel like we deserved. But, you know, various reasons it didn't work. So that happened, Right? So then what do you say? Okay, I lost my big time. So after that, for two years, roughly two years, both of us went and went and, you know, took up a corporate job and started getting a nice salary check at the end of every month, which was not something which was happening as entrepreneurs. So what do you Think that, okay, you know, finally, after the big nine years of hard work, finally have a corporate job and we are getting a nice salary. We should use that opportunity and run it for several years and make sure we have a good balance in the bank to take care of our life. But what in our case, we couldn't even last there for two full years. In about 21 months, we said, no, we don't want to do that. We'll go back to entrepreneurship. And that's when we started our next venture, which is what we are currently we, which is what we referred in the beginning. And so then someone would say that like heck, like what? What got into you because you had not built your sort of, you know, retirement OG and you still chucked it all and became an entrepreneurship entrepreneur again. So maybe there's a DNA running inside us which is saying that, you know, you got to be entrepreneur and some somebody like looking back, I feel that I took such a risk. What if the second venture had also gone wrong? I mean, it would have been 45, 46, 47 years. Would have been really hard to start afresh and build capital at that age. So when I look back, I think that what was I smoking in those days to have gone and ventured into a second venture after a tough first one? But anyway, it turned out better this time. So this is the final slide. So for every brilliant entrepreneurial story that you hear, there are a few thousand that will fail in spite of everything. If you end up, unfortunately, if you end up that you are in that kind of situation where you can't continue, it's like an end of the road for your venture. The one thing you need to try and do is to ensure a dignified exit. It dignified for you, for you, your family, your team, your partners. And that's a great investment for your personal goodwill. And I'll tell you our story at home. India, it was like this. After a lot of work and hard work, we had no choice left but to sort of call it a day. And we made sure even in those tough times that every employee was paid his full dues, every vendor was paid his full dues, rents were paid, everything was paid. We went and spoke to our investors and they realized that we had done everything. For us, it was just a matter of timing. We were a little ahead of time. From E Commerce to, you know, became a big story. So much so that that dignified exit really helped when we started the next venture. You know, all of our investors, money in the first venture, HomeIndia, dot com had kind of gone to nothing. I mean, these are venture money. They, they did not get anything out of it. We started our next venture, which is my current venture in a year or so. We said now we need to raise money and where do we go? We went to the same investors who had invested in our first venture and not earned anything. And they said, how much money? What check you want? They just simply wrote a check to us. And we have so many people who used to work with us in that first venture and you know, they were also there for, you know, for making good money in that entrepreneurial venture which didn't go but several of them joined back in this new venture of ours, current venture. So it all happened because of the dignified exit. We did not just walk away leaving everything to the lurch. So that's the thing that if you have to exit sometimes times are tough and you don't manage to get the right return. Make sure that at least the exit is dignified. So I think that's all the slides I have. I just have at the bottom my Twitter handle which is, I'm reasonably active on it. So in case we can't engage in a question answer here. If you want to ask me anything, happy to, you know, connect on Twitter and you can ask me there. So I think that's all the slides from, from my side. I am absolutely happy to take questions at this point. I'll stop the screen share.

That is fantastic. Thank you. Sanjay. I knew about your journey. You know, we've known each other for that long a period. I know we one of India's first Internet startups before everybody knew what's happening. You already had a plan and you had a co founder. You had everything set up and but I, the first thing that I'm going to do is grab a handle on that book because I'm sure that these, you know, you had these nine, ten nuggets. I'm sure lots more over there. I love the missionary statement. What you, you know, you said if you have a mission, you need missionaries, people who are just working very hard and very smart. No, you need somebody, somebody who's dedicated to the cause. I'm going to. That's going to be my biggest takeaway.

What is the single most, what is the single most motivation for Mr. Sanjay to start the second venture despite the first one is not meet the expectation and made him confident to start and succeed with the second venture.

Awesome. Thank you. You can please unmute your mute yourself now. Sanjay will answer that question. Thank you.

Over to you, it's a multiple set of factors. So as you know, that, I mean, as I mentioned, my first venture was in the Internet businesses, which is homeindia.com so one of the earliest in the space. So we kind of work nine years hands on, you know, building out an Internet business. So there was a, I mean there was definitely an understanding of the, the way the Internet consumer behaves and buys and everything. And then for two years or less, little less than two years, I was working for somebody again in an Internet space. And while I was doing so, I happen to read about the phenomenon of social media coming in and there was a particular book in fact, which, which was seriously an eye opener for me. And somewhere in that I sensed that, look, this is an opportunity which is happening. It's something where the world is going to take social media. I mean, all kinds of companies, small, big, everybody is going to get into social media and it's not something that will come intuitively to them because it's a new phenomenon and they will need help. And this looks like a great business to go and be an agency to help them navigate through social media. It just seemed extremely compelling. So that was of course from a business opportunity perspective. And the other part is maybe like I mentioned that there is a certain entrepreneurship DNA, you know, that one and a half for less than two years is the only two years of my life that I have worked for any other boss than myself pretty much. So my, my first 10 years were in a family business where again, you know, maybe my father was my boss, but you know, it was a family business. And then that after home, India, this one and a half years or so where I actually was a professional. And so maybe it's just that, you know, you want to run your own sort of venture and you know, do things as you feel like you don't want a boss to tell you type of thing. So, so it's a combination of the two. One is to see a real opportunity, other is that, you know, at the core, one is an entrepreneur, one wanted to come back a big risk. If things had not gone well, I mean, I might have heard a different story. Thankfully, this one, we were in the right place at the right time.

Lovely, thank you. I definitely resonate with my dad as my first boss story. I call him every morning, I speak to him about something or the other and he, he's always willing to reclaim that role of being a boss. And I have to keep reminding him that you're a mentor and a guide. I called you for that. Excellent. Mr. Prabhakar, you had a question, sir?

Yeah. You started wisdom number one, saying we don't write destinies. Destinies write us. Does it mean you start with a question mark in your mind whether I'm destined to succeed or not? I think that that was not the point. The point was. I think the point was made in the context that you're, you know, if you're getting extremely obsessed about the way you've written out your business plan and expect everything to go, you know, one after the other in that way that may not quite pan out. I mean, the point was that not. Not anything else. And that it's not like, you know, you don't start with a plan or you have a lot of question marks. The question is that you need to adapt because things change. Destinies means suddenly supposing you were in. In 2020 and you were in education technology, edtech, right? And suddenly it became like your market opportunity became 10x which you have done. Nothing is the COVID come and the market opportunity becomes 10x right? Now you might have written a plan which called for, you know, incremental growth at 20% per annum or something. And now you are suddenly in the middle of a 10x opportunity. So you deal with it. You. You find it. So that's a destiny, right? You didn't do anything. But the destiny creates an opportunity for you to potentially go 10x times. So that's the point that, you know, react. There is a plan, but respond to the changes which happened around you and, you know, constantly figure how you can write them. Well, that was a plan.

That's fantastic.

Okay, thank you.

When you do depend on destiny, depend on the destiny giving you. Giving you wild cards. But I love it. So you're saying it may not be ABCD for you, it might be ACDBA for somebody else. It may be BCBDA and great. So chips may fall wherever they may. Awesome. Yes. Priya, over to you.

Good evening. And Mr. Sanjay. It was a very good session because all of us are entrepreneurs and I also have a. A very similar background where I guess businesses in my blood, though. I work for a lot of years, but I could never get used to a boss telling me what to do. And that's why I always used to have, you know, lockhorns with my boss all the time because I always thought I was the boss, you know? So those. Those clashes do happen in your mind. So I wanted to ask you, if I were to approach an investor, what are the three key Things I should keep in mind or be prepared. You know, when I go and approach.

An investor, I think from the investor what they, they are seeing, right. Generally speaking. And you know, and every investor has a different perspective. The one, one part is that they first definitely see the entrepreneur, the founder. I mean it, it starts there, I mean that you know, like everything about it, like one is that how passionate you are about the idea, how, how strongly you feel about it, how confident you are and how sort of what kind of logical way you have to defend your idea as much as possible. If I'm an investor sitting in front of you, it's not that I agree with everything you say, but the fact that you have thought your way through. So that's the first part, like how committed, how. Supposing I throw you a question as an investor and you say okay, Shah the SRB Kar I mean maybe we'll do this. So that means I know that you are not confident and you are willing to go whichever way. So anyway, in many, many ways that's one part that you know, what's the confidence in the entrepreneur and their passion and everything besides that, I mean once that is taken care is the, is the business idea and the scale and size of the opportunity depends on what investor. I mean if it's a, you know, if it's a business which is going to go from you know, 10 lakhs to 2 crores, it's a different kind of an investor mindset versus an opportunity which can be a unicorn opportunity or whatever. I mean 500 million, whatever. Now the guys who look at that big scale opportunity, they want to see what's the scale that can possibly happen. And the last thing is what is the kind of exit. So I mean I was speaking to one really smart investor who's had a lot of success. He says when the, when a project comes to me, one of the things I see is that who will buy this if this business becomes big, Is there a buyer for that business? Because if there's a buyer, then only I will get my exit if I were to invest in it. So if it comes out that this is a business where the only buyer could be Google, if Google doesn't buy nobody else's buyer, then that means that there is only one buyer and that buyer might not buy, that means I don't have an option and I'm getting stuck. Or if it says that okay, anybody who is into this kind of activity can be a buyer or that this business is primed up for an ipo so then exit idea scale in terms of the market opportunity and you know, of course entrepreneur. Well, there may be other details that you know, like finally what's the gross profit? I mean things of that kind of other details in terms of more integrity. But these two three first things kind of get somebody interested to continue to talk to you.

Okay, thank you so much.

Interesting. Thank you very much. Okay, I think we have time for two more questions. Yes, Dr. Premji.

Thank you very much Sanjay, for sharing wonderful nuggets. I, I could really relate and vibe well because in 61 years of my life I had been into corporate job only for three years because I have that same DNA of entrepreneur. I have a two question for you. One thing you mentioned that conflict resolution mechanism. I would love that you elaborate because many of us, we had been there, we know the conflicts do happen and how do we manage that. And the second thing I had been having in mind as you were talking is if the things go well, everything is fine. But sometimes things don't go well and that's the way life is. Then you have your family members also you see you are accountable for ethically. How do we handle that aspect when the things don't go very well.

Thank you. So the first question I'll just show you, share with you what we used to have in. So first of all, like I said, I mean I was fortunate that my partner, who continues to be my partner in my current venture as well, we went back a long way, we were classmates in college and, and all that. So we at least had a very good first level understanding and kind of a mutual respect. That's a very important thing. So you know, even like when you choose a partner, when you choose an investor, the chemistry part is the most important that you know, can you gel with that person really well. And especially you know, when things are going well. Right. Everybody's happy. But how will the partner and you deal when the things don't go well? Because that's when the core character comes to the fore. Would you get bitter? Would you point fingers at each other that you know, because of you we went down or is it still a team game? You know, so, so some of these things are very important. But anyway that for, for me we, like I said, we were fortunate that we knew each other and we knew how to support. But we were clear that you know, there will be times when there will be differences. So we spoke about it. So you know, we started this venture in 98 and the book talks about how accidentally we got into this and all that. But one of the first conversations which we had, not one of the first, but like before we really went in full fledged, is that, you know, let's at the outset think about how would we manage if things, you know, we disagree on things. And there was a good conversation that, you know, we will follow this. We'll, we'll have an open mind, will try to see the thing from the other person's point of view. You know, it's a really mature conversation. It's not like my way or the highway. It's about, let's try what is the right way for the organization. So we'll do all that. And after all that, also, if we reach a point where we're saying that I feel we should go A and partner feel we should go B, how will we resolve? Right. So we came up with a, you know, a mechanism which is sort of like the, which happen in a football game that every team, every team has some. Three yellow cards and one red card which you are allowed to play in the course of the year. A yellow card is where, you know, if there's a disagreement, I play my yellow card, which I say that, you know, I didn't agree to this, but I am okay to let you go with your way. Let's see how it goes. So it's like, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm giving a certain, you know, in a kind of healthy protest that I. It's not to my agreement, but let's go with your. I mean, I feel, it's. I feel strongly enough about that. I don't want to block it, but I still feel that it's not the right thing. And then you, I mean, so, I mean, I don't remember the nitty gritty because we don't have this anymore. Now we are beyond that. We have a good intuitive mechanism, but we had, I think three yellow cards and three red cards or something else. The red card is where it's like a veto. So the point is that you have limited numbers so you won't block everything because you know you have three cars. It's like how, you know, you have your DRS in a cricket match, you know, your limited number to use, so you'll use it carefully and you'll use it only for those which you actually very strongly feel about because you're using up your chances. So we didn't use it a lot, but we use it maybe two, three times in our entire journey. But it was a good mechanism to have so that it was A healthy way to find resolution on a conflict. So that was the first question. The second one is, I mean, family support is extremely important. I mean, I mean, if you don't have, if you do not have that, then again, you know, maybe it's not for you because, you know, if you're, you can't be running an organization, I mean, a startup and going a certain way and have stress at home or keep people at home feeling very disturbed because you need, when you come home after a hard day's work, you don't want more stress at home because there is conflict about, you know, what you're doing and you know, the startup or, you know, you're not making enough money, there's that. Etc. Etc. So that's important. I mean, you need to have that chat with your family. Interestingly, you know, I don't know if you're much into films, but there is this film on our Dada Sahib Falke who made the first talkie, first film. You know, there's a film called Harish Chandraji Factory. And other Sahib was the earliest filmmaker, the first filmmaker from India. And he made this film called Harishchandraji Factory. And if you see the film, I have made a blog post about entrepreneurship lessons from that film. Okay. That what you learn from. You might search and find my blog post around that. But he literally bet his last penny on. He was absolutely passionate about making a film. He put everything that he had, including selling off the home utensils. And the point is that the family was fully and totally supportive of that. And finally at the end of the day, you know, he actually made the film and that the rest is history. You know, today we have the Falke Awards and all that because that's the honor we bestow him that, you know, he was the first filmmaker. But that was thanks to family support. If you don't have that kind of support, then maybe it's not the entrepreneurship is not for you. Right.

Perfect. Sanjay, you know what I am thinking in my head as. Because every. Every Thursday Moguls Master class, we transcribe and we're putting it into a blog. So I'm just, you know, I had a different topic 10 minutes ago, but after every answer that you gave my topic, I'm like, I'm thinking of the subject line, the thumbnail of what it's going to be. Because this is. This is information at every level. Deep information at every level. Fantastic. Okay, gentlemen and ladies, we have time for one last question. Yes, Dr. Sameer.

Yeah.

Hi.

I think this Session was amazing. Like, truly it is, because it's so well timed. Because today's times, every entrepreneur in whichever faculty, what I understand is, you know, rethinking going back and forth with their issues, however big or small. What I understand. I am from Bombay and I'm practicing for 24 years. But, you know, we are still afloat because being in the healthcare industry, we are still afloat. But I see so many people out there. It's. It's unnerving to see the kind of people, you know, I feel I'm in such a better space. Like, I was, like, brooding yesterday. But when I go back to clinic and I'm listening to my patients, you know, they're really, really suffering. So this point number nine, reach out for help. No, you know what? Nobody. Not many people do it, and they shy away from it. I think the winner is, like, typically, I think when I reached out to you, Avi has to be. I did, didn't I? So I literally connected. I said, man, you know, it is so important to speak up. It's so important to communicate. You might just feel lighter, you know, sharing your problems, sharing your issues. You might just. Someone might throw a light in the day. I think that is so important. You know, I think Priya just spoke that she connected to this entire thing because she was also, like, similar to me. I was also working in a hospital setup. I was not happy with, you know, my seniors, you know, moving me around. I just thought, I need my space. I need. I have a mind of my own. So typically, I didn't like, you know, my colleagues, you know, trying to, you know, move me around types, you know, in the sense, you know, it is like they know it all. And it's typically, maybe I'm from an entrepreneur's background. You know, my family's a business background. So I completely relate to this session today. I think Sanjay has done some amazing. I've jotted down every point. I literally have. I'm really liking it. Thank you so much.

Awesome.

I just comment on this, you know, I mean, just because you brought up the point about not buying away, you know, so like I mentioned, at age 46 is when we started this current venture. I was 46 at that point. And, you know, I've been in business for a long time, and I would think that, okay, now I've got my new venture, and I know what it takes. I'm going to. To get into social media and this and that, so I should just go ahead and run because I know everything that is to know. But I realized that, you know, while I had done e commerce venture before this, I was getting into an area which was going to be closer to, you know, branding and marketing and, you know, some of those things. So while I knew the Internet side of it, I knew the way the Internet consumer behaves, I wasn't from advertising background and I wasn't from the branding background. Also, I realized that this company, when we get started, in no time, if it does well, we'll probably have a large workforce. I might have, you know, a few hundred people. Again, I had not had such a large team. So I said, it doesn't matter. I'm 46, but there are things which I don't know. And at this point, I'm not going to go to university to learn these. Can I find people who I know who have done this? So actually, in my circle, I identified somebody who had a, you know, friend who ran a business which had some 300 people working for him. And there was another friend who had been in advertising and branding and marketing for a long time. He was in the sun lever and all that. So I walked. We kind of took time and went to meet them separately and said that, look, you know, this is my venture. I'm going to start out, but you are going to be my mentor. I mean, they are friends. So I could, I didn't have to ask anyone, didn't have to request. I just said that you're going to be my mentor and every once in a while I'm going to come and sit with you and come and tell you the challenges that I have and you have to provide me some thoughts and help. So they are completely different industry. But there was no hesitation at, you know, to go and say that, you know, I need. These are not my strengths and I learned them over time. But meanwhile, it would help to have somebody who knows more than me and who has a perspective and who's a friend. So he'll give me thoughts and ideas without any, you know, sort of without any personal interest. And it worked very well for the first six months or so of our new venture. I think every month we would go and spend an hour or two hours with these people. That much time we took, but it was valuable. We didn't need to. Now, as a case that, you know, I, like I mentioned on, I was talking that I meet with a lot of younger startup founders and entrepreneurs who are maybe out of college or maybe now one or two years of experience and they're starting out and a lot of these Bodies have, you know, mentorship programs and all, and they connect them to people like us. And I find that, you know, they don't, don't take advantage of that opportunity, that there is somebody who has been through it and go and ask your questions what you want, you know, what happens finally, if you don't like the answer, if it doesn't agree, don't take it. But, you know, you're getting free advice, you're getting free suggestions. So people hesitate. People are shy. So on the other end, you know, we didn't really care that, you know, doesn't matter if I have to go, go and tell that I don't understand branding so well at that point and hence I want your help. Fine. And that's what my friend gave me. So it's like that at whatever point of time, it's not like, you know, you're too old to have a mentor. It's nothing like that. You know, you can have a mentor at whatever age you are because there are areas of specific areas that you don't get. And you, you know, somebody who gets them better. So why not reach out and ask him?

Fantastic. Thank you so much. Okay, we've run out of time for our questions, but we'll take one extra question from Priya after this. We're going to call it a session. Yes, Priya.

Thanks, Avi. So two, three things like what Sanjay was talking about reaching out to people. So I'm so glad that you, you know, made us these buddy partners and buddy groups. I think I could absolutely relate to that, you know, that we can reach out to, from you to everybody else. We can reach out, you know, whenever we have the need to. So, Sanjay, I wanted to ask you, when you started your venture, was it around the same time as Burlington's? Because Burlington's was also the first. They were also, you know, like early in their startup as a business in e commerce business, catalog selling. So was it around the same time?

No, I don't think so. I mean, I don't remember them being around at that time. So maybe it was not around the same time. So when we started, we did our e commerce startup. The first transaction on our website on homeindia.com must have happened in early 1999. I don't think there were too many people doing e commerce that time. We used to have rediff.com and we used to have indiaworld.com and samacha.com. those are some of the popular sites that time. But they were all either news sites, entertainment sites, or Things like that. We were probably one of the earliest in the e commerce space in that time. Yeah.

So I guess Burlington's was before you guys also. But they were into catalog selling. They started as catalog selling.

Yeah, it was probably a catalog. Yeah, I remember now. But it was. It was not on. On the Internet.

Yeah.

We were selling. Absolutely. To the website and we were not selling to anyone in India. Our site was a dollar denominated and it was only the customers were 100 outside India and we were shipping from here to wherever in the world.

Thank you, thank you Sanjay for your time. Like I always mention my father who always says the most expensive thing you can ask. You said ask. Right? And we asked you for your time. And my father always says the most important expensive thing you can ask from people is not their money, but it's their time. So thank you Sanjay for giving us your time. Every single lesson out of those nine lessons was extremely valuable. The first thing I'm doing is getting that book and I suggest all of you people should get that book as well. I'm going to put the Amazon link for all of you people in the description. Thank you very much, Sanjay. Thank you for your time. I look forward to being, staying in touch and as we are all building our entrepreneurial ventures, anything that we can do for you, feel free to reach out at any given time. Once again from all of us, thank you very much for your time.

You got me loser set me free. You make me win every way. You showed me how to spread my way.