How RED BULL Became The King Of Drinks! - A Case Study for Entrepreneurs | By Charlie Grinnell

My journey to where I got today, I dropped out of university twice actually. And so in me dropping out of university, I think that created a fear and an insecurity which actually drove me to make up for it by working hard. And so on one hand I think that's what has contributed to my success in that I had that hunger instilled in me. Like, you know, fear and insecurity is a powerful force. Social media tends to be a highlight reel and it's very glamorous, but it is a grind and it's not for everybody. And I wouldn't have had the confidence to start my own business when I was in my early 20s because I realized I still had so much to learn. Like so many people think about doing things and talk about doing things, but they don't actually do things. I just can't stress enough half the battle, more than half the battle is just started.

Hey Charlie, how are you? So I just. Thanks for taking the time out. That's Raya. Raya is 13 and that's Aviana. Aviana is two and a half. Oh, sorry, nine. Nine.

Nice to meet you guys.

Both you too.

And the girls are going to go to school in Vancouver. Born and brought up there. So Vancouver girls and so the backstory, I don't know if I told you, I'm 42 years old. When I was 18 all I wanted to do in life was to race street cars and I thought I'm going to become a streetcar racer. And then my dad didn't think so. So he called me to his office once and he said I've got two options for you. A, join the family business from tomorrow morning. B B, get out of the house. After a lot of deliberation, I thought it's a good idea to join his business. So the very morning and all that deliberation happened that night between me and my mom and what I should be doing. So the very next morning I found myself 7:30 in the morning and I'd never woken up at that ungodly hour and found myself behind my dad's hotel reception. This was a small 40 room hotel in the middle of New Delhi. I learned housekeeping, I learned the restaurant, I learned all of that. I also learned dad is doing a fantastic job of running a hotel. Didn't know what I should do because I knew I'd always be under the shadow of somebody who doing something who's got it all figured out. One day we had this European traveler walk in. He paid us in Dutch guilders pre Euro days And we converted the Dutch guilders into Indian rupees. It turned out to be multiple Indian rupees. So I'm thinking to myself, what if I'm able to convert all 40 rooms into foreign tourists coming in, I'm able to, you know, sort of multifold the income of the property and then that means that I become a star back in my dad's eyes. That's, that's the one ambition that I had. How do you get in touch with international guests? There's new phenomena on the market called the Internet. So discovered the Internet. There was a new cyber cafe company who gave us a cyber cafe. People didn't know what a cyber cafe was. We were the first cyber cafe in the city of Delhi, which is from 30 million people odd. So we got the cyber cafe. I got into the Internet, understood what happens with the websites and all of that. One and a half years of understanding SEO, whatever tagging. And somebody said you need a query form, somebody said you need a call to action, whatever experimentation. We started getting some queries, four queries, five, 10, 15 queries a day. To cut the long story short, you know, so much business coming in that we decided after one year that we have consistent business coming in from this new channel. Whatever rates we're putting hotels in Delhi, Delhi hotels, three star hotels in Delhi, boutique hotel. Every keyword, we had four to five positions on every page. So we were dominating the search results. We bought, decided to buy another hotel. In other few years we decided to buy another hotel, then we bought another one. So basically that took 40 years to build this first hotel. After we discovered the Internet, the next few years we kept on buying hotels. So couple of things changed. The revenue changed, the way our lifestyle obviously changed and the relationship between somebody, you know, I will now having strategy meeting with somebody who wanted to throw me out of the house. Five years ago, so everything changed. We started a travel company because now we had hotels full of captive tourists. And the travel company, my mom joined the business travel company did well. We then started doing a lot of affiliate marketing for travel and hospitality. So a lot of good things happened in the last, in the next seven, eight years. Just about then, TripAdvisor walked into India and they heard about our story and they said, we'll be doing events all over the country. Why don't you come and speak for us? I started speaking and sharing my story. That's when people started coming and saying, hey, why can't you do the marketing that you do for your dad's hotel? For me, after A lot of discussing because I was still in my late 20s, riding high on the confidence and success of the three ventures that happened. We started a company called Internet Moguls. That's the only name I could think of. And we started with the four member team and then now 10 years later, we're a team of 225 people. We work with about 700 hotels in 10 countries. So that's one story that we started from. The second part of the story was that me and my wife moved to Vancouver. We were going back and forth looking for an international office for my wife, who's a lawyer. And we fell in love with Vancouver. The girls were born over there. We said, we're going to keep going back and forth now because I go back and forth between my offices in Asia and Vancouver. I obviously missed both of them a lot. So when I come back home, we do a lot of bedtime stories. Bedtime stories are around dad and what he's doing at work. Then it started becoming about how would it be if all of us went to work together and we had our own company? So we started a fictitious company in our head. We started thinking about the problems we have and all of that. And then we said, you know what? One day we said, let's put all of these things together and make a comic book. And we made it and we call it Bedtime Stories for Tomorrow's Entrepreneurs. So that was our venture, last to last year.

Yeah.

So Bedtime Stories for Tomorrow's Entrepreneurs. The kids went around schools in Canada talking about it. We're about $450 in profit for in our first venture. You'd be happy to know that. And so.

Wow, that's amazing.

So that was our venture. So the company is called Daddy Daughter Co. And so that was venture number one. The second venture that we decided was, I said, you know, we travel so much between all of us. Right now we're in India. We're going to go back to Vancouver. I travel six, seven times. We went to San Diego. We're traveling all over the world. We're meeting people. We went, we, you know, we went and interviewed Gary Vee twice. We interviewed Grant Cardone, Bat Flynn. You know, we've been going all over the place. We said, let's all together identify the people that we like to watch on the Internet and say, you know, and, and document their journeys and make the first ever sort of a guide called the Internet Moguls of the world and have 50 people on the their stories on how they feel, what is their definition of an Internet mogul. For us, an Internet mogul is not somebody who's making billions on the Internet. An Internet mogul is somebody who's leveraged the Internet to be able to work from wherever they want, to still be able to grow a business and spend more time with the family, those things which are never thought possible. So that's our venture. And thank you for your patience, listening to the backstory, and thank you for taking the time out. I was telling the girls two reasons I reached out to you A because I love the stories that you told us about your stint with Red Bull and the kind of marketing that you do. And I love your posts. And there's obviously informative and to be very honest also, I remember that when human beings are human beings, when they're put into a certain situation, we were all on stage together, I got into an uncomfortable spot, and you came to a rescue. Very few human beings do that. And that touched my heart. And I never forgot you after that. So thank you very much for everything.

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Excellent. So now we leave it to the entrepreneurs to ask you some questions, if that's okay.

Absolutely.

Go for it.

All right, so. So my first question is, what was the main or what was a big goal that you accomplished while working with Red Bull that really taught you a lesson? What was the main moment or goal that was accomplished that taught you the most and taught you things that you still apply to your life today?

Yeah, that's a really good question. I think one of the things that comes to my mind was I was working. I started my career at Red Bull in the Canadian office based in Toronto. And every year we had business planning where we would have to sit down and figure out, okay, what are the marketing activations that we're going to do next year? And, you know, we have to sit down and build essentially a case to prove, okay, this is why we want to do it, and this is how much it's going to cost and those sorts of things. And so one of the ones that stands out in my mind was we came up with a video format that we called RAW 100. And so basically what we had found was by looking around within the action sports space, so skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking, those spaces, all of the videos online had a bunch of stuff in common. It was all really slow motion video footage with dubstep music, and it was just getting very stale and boring. And so we thought, okay, if that's the. And they were starting to be a conversation online. Around people not really liking that style, but everybody was doing it anyway. It was almost like the stereotype. And so what we did was we looked around and we realized what if we just did something the complete opposite of that? So we were like, okay, what is this video format that we could create that we could package up and send out to people? And so the idea behind Raw 100 was it was supposed to be 100 seconds long, and there was no slow motion allowed and no music. It had to be all raw sounds. And so what we did was we. The first year, we commissioned a few, and they performed pretty well. And then the next year, another Red Bull country saw what we were doing and was like, oh, we want to do that. And the year after, another one. And then I ended up leaving Red Bull Canada and moving to the global headquarters based in Austria. And when I got there, there was a ton of people. You know, I'm sitting there in meetings and all these plans are talking about raw 100. And I'm like, whoa, this is weird. Like, I came up with this with a colleague of mine. You know, we came up with this as we were doing this, like, three or four years ago. And now I'm sitting at the global headquarters, and people are like, oh, yeah, that. Like a RA 100. And I'm going, whoa, that's super inspiring. And weird for me that it came out of my heads one day. And so, yeah, I think that was a moment where I really realized it's something that I've been really, really proud of, because, you know, it's that we came up with that in 20, 2015. And, you know, there's still. We've seen other brands in that space rip that off and say, oh, this is my version on a raw 100. And so it was something that we came up for Red Bull, but people liked it so much, like the format, that it's like, oh, well, that's my version of this. So I thought that was kind of a marketing activation. So, yeah, that's what I would say is something that. The first time where I kind of saw the power of the Internet.

So henceforth, it will be called ROM 100 CG. So instead of a TM.

I wish, I wish. But, yeah, it's been really interesting. Like, there have been stuff that has been sent to me where they're like, oh, check out this raw 100. Like, did you work on this? And I have no idea who made it, but somebody's made it. And I'm like, whoa, that's cool. They've taken the format and run with it.

That's almost like you, you know, you open sourced your idea to them kind of.

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't. I don't think that was the intent. Like, at our back, I think back to when we were there, I was like, if we could just make some good videos so that we can hit our internal KPIs, I'll be happy. And what happened was, you know, I think a lot of people within the world of Red Bull, in other countries, as well as, you know, outside in the industry itself, found it as something that's entertaining and valuable, and it just kind of started to snowball and go, perfect.

Abhiana.

Okay, so my first question to you is, how often do you, like, take break days? Like, how often do you break with your work? Do you, like, do it? Do you, like, work two hours, but then, like, take a break one hour? Or, like, what do you do?

Or do you just listen to your daddy and do whatever your daddy says?

So my. My dad actually doesn't work in. In business. He works in. He works in the film industry. And so he's. He's very. He's a carpenter, model, maker, so he's very talented at building things. He doesn't really do much in the business space. He had a business back in the day, but he's more on the creative side of things in terms of taking breaks. I think that this is something that I've had to learn a lot about. And I'll be the first one to admit that sometimes in the past, I've been a workaholic where I work a lot. And now I think I'm realizing the importance of knowing when I just need to walk away from something and put something down. Whereas I think when I was younger, I would previously just be like, nope, I'm going to power through and do it. I think what I would add to that also is that my journey to where I got today, I dropped out of university twice, actually. And so in me dropping out of university, I think that created a fear and an insecurity, which actually drove me to make up for it by working hard, if that makes sense. So the fact when I dropped out of university, I knew, oh, my parents were going to ask me, okay, like, what am I doing? What are you doing, Charlie? But then also I knew that people were probably looking at me going, well, what's that guy doing? He was. And I was. I went to school at UBC for a little bit, and I dropped out of ubc and I go okay, that guy. I was worried about what people would think about me. And so that. That insecurity and that fear is what drove me to work really, really hard. And so on one hand, I think that's what has contributed to. To my success in that I had that hunger instilled in me. Like, you know, fear and insecurity is a powerful force, right? Like, when you're scared, you just do things. And so I think about that with. With in my kind of run in the business world, I was. I was so scared and insecure. It created this hunger for more, which fueled this almost like, workaholic aspect. And so I think that, you know, that that is what allowed me to do things relatively quickly. That said, it's not sustainable. And so that's, I think, what I've realized in the last few years. And I'm. I'm 29, so I'm not old, right. But I've, like, since I've been 18, I've been kind of being a workaholic for the last, you know, 10 years, where I've just work, work, work. Everything's about work. And now I think especially running my own business, and we're 10 people now working. Uh, I see that, how that's not sustainable and how it is important to be able to walk away. And tomorrow is another day. And it's better to, you know, know when you're actually going to be able to perform at a high level. And then when you're not, don't just keep doing it because you feel like you have to. Sometimes it makes sense. Walk away and then come back again when you know you're going to be in the zone.

Got it? Got it.

Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Awesome. Charlie, tell us you. Because, you know, so I travel between North America and Asia like five, seven, eight times a year. Sometimes it's brutal. I've been doing it for seven, eight years. It's almost about 100 flights. And what I realized was a lot of stuff that happens in North America eventually trickles down to India into Asia. Millions of people, mostly young, wanting to get into the digital marketing space. A, they find it cool. B, they find flexibility and freedom, which, you know, anybody wants. C, they see a lot of rock stars making money. But what I have been sort of worried about is that a lot of people ape anybody who they see as cool without knowing if their DNA can fit into what they want to do. Instead of actually trying to make a roadmap of why I'm doing what I'm doing, which kind of customer Am I serving? I'm just following somebody for the sake of following it. Number one. Now number two, people are like, oh, should I create an online course or should I become a freelancer or hang on, should I do an agency? And between all of that, they are struggling with, you know, how. So they're smart, they're driven, they're motivated. You know, so many people in Asia. But how would you advise somebody who's in their early 20s and say, I am either working in a job or doing something part time? How do you do that? Break into the digital marketing space. What would be your advice on that? You can go and have some Odin.

Yeah, so I think that's a super great question and I have a couple things to say on that. I think, number one, you touched on these young people looking at these potential Internet entrepreneurs and seeing how cool it looks and all that sort of thing. I think the number one thing to remember is that social media tends to be a highlight reel and everybody always puts the best thing and talks about how great their life is. You know, there is, I think that that kind of skews people's ideas. I have friends who, you know, they have a ton of followers on Instagram and, you know, their life looks amazing. They travel around and then when I see them, they're miserable. And so I think that, you know, just understanding that, that, okay, that's, that's, that's the highlights. But like, there is a person there who's might be struggling with things or whatever. So I think that's a really interesting thing to keep in mind. In mind as you're looking out to that, like, okay, isn't it glamorous? And I always used to explain this to a lot of friends or even family. You know, it would, it sounds really cool to be like, oh, well, yeah, I'm flying to here tomorrow and I'm going there. But to your point, you miss things, you miss birthdays, you miss get togethers. And also, it seems really glamorous, but when you're getting on an overnight flight on a Tuesday night, I would rather be in bed watching Netflix. You know, like, I would rather not be, not be shoved in a tube where people are coughing and sneezing and I'm sitting like this, right? And so I think that, that it's, it's very glamorous, but it is a grind and it's not for everybody. And I think, you know, I was, when I first started doing it, I was like, oh, isn't this cool? It's cool for about Six months. And then you're like, it's like part of. Part of the thing. And then the last thing I would say is about people potentially starting their own business. I think, you know, I have a handful of friends who are, who are younger than me. As I said earlier, I'm 29, and this is my first go round in actual my own business. Whereas before I've worked in businesses and I actually wasn't actively looking to start my own business. It kind of happened by accident. And so I think that I wouldn't have had the confidence to start my own business when I was in my early 20s, because I realized I still had so much to learn. So I think that, you know, it's one of those things that I'm always advising people where, you know, they might be 22, 23, they go, I think I'm starting. I'm going to start my own agency. And I go, okay, what are you going to do? Oh, well, I think I'm going to do this. And in my mind, I go, okay, who's going to pay you for that? Because, like, you're so early in your career. Like, I actually wouldn't recommend starting that. That some people might disagree with me, but I'm like, fairly conservative in the way that I kind of operate. And so I didn't feel comfortable starting a business until I had the knowledge, the connections, the safety nets in place, all those different pieces. So that when I started a business on, you know, to the outsider looking in, they're like, wow, Charlie's starting a business. And he's, he's young and whatever, but behind the scenes, I had so many safety nets in place that allowed me to do it. And so I think that that's something that.

I'm so glad you said that, because everybody's like, you know, jump, and the parachute will open. It never does. How can a parachute open?

Exactly. And so I think that that's something that I've really learned. And a lot of the conversations that I get asked are a lot of the topics that people are asking me is around that sort of thing. And I'm constantly going, you know, when they say, hey, I'm thinking about starting a business, that's when I really start to ask, like, super tough questions. And if they answer them, great. Like, it's still a risk. But oftentimes what happens is they go, oh, wow, I didn't even think about that.

Exactly. Perfect. So, Charlie, you know, when it comes to online courses, it's one avenue of getting into the Internet marketing Business. You package your knowledge into bite sized lessons and sometimes long lessons. Prepare videos, interview people, put a course together, you know, that goes. The other is starting an agency or just being a freelancer. Fourth is that, you know, I might work for somebody who I love working for. You know, you're in Vancouver, you're super talented. Hit up Charlie and maybe he got a side gig for you or, you know, and then work your way up into the industry from any of these. You know, pick one route. And what would be your take on online course? An agency versus working for an agency. Which route do you prefer and why?

I would prefer the last one in working for someone that you respect and look up to. As soon as I dropped out of university, I started interning places and I felt that learning from an individual like day in, day out was really, really valuable. Not only was I learning, I was also meeting people. So I kind of was able to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak. Whereas I think with, okay, if you take a course, that's great, you take a course, you buy the course, but you're still potentially sitting at home alone, so you're not necessarily meeting people. And yes, I know some courses have communities, they have Facebook groups, they have all their different things. But I would always skew towards working for someone who, offering to work with someone who works in an industry or is in a position that you aspire to be in. And so I think about, you know, before I got into the digital side of things, I was working in the, in the video production side of things. And so I just like reached out to the video producers who I thought were making really cool stuff. And I was like, hey, can I come help? And that's like, it started for me, like lifting camera stuff to like, whatever, till the point where, you know, I'm shooting and editing with them. And so I think that was something that was really, really valuable in that I got to learn the hard skills with them. I also got to learn the soft skills from them. And then also on top of it, as a bonus, I got to build up my network and I got to meet certain people and be around. And I think that, you know, there's this old, old, old phrase that I think about, you know, it's not, it's not what, you know, it's who, you know. I don't know who said that, but I found that is, you know, my whole career has been through the connections that I have and the relationships that I've built, not through. It's not because I'm super smart or I'm super funny or whatever any of those things are. It actually has to do with no, I've made a connection with this person and I've gone. I've always tried to give them more out of our relationship, whether it be helping them with really anything and just be a good person. And I found that that tends to help along the way. So that's why I would always skew towards working for someone as opposed to starting an agency or doing a course or that sort of thing.

That helps a lot.

Yeah. So little backstory but. So I always had like these goals about I want to be in entrepreneurship, I want to. And, but I never really took action. So like about, what was it five months ago, I was like, I sat down with my dad, I asked him what should I do? And he had a great session to start an Instagram account on motivational society. After like what Gary Vee does, you know, posting those short videos about how you can start your journey and motivational journey.

She talks about her love for animals and she talks against animal cruelty and against bullying mostly.

Yeah. So I made those short micro videos and since then a lot of like 13 year olds don't understand people migrating, what this is, because I think later going on into it, they'll understand, oh, what she's doing. But what would your advice be for any 13 year olds who want to start their journey now? They're a little bit confused on entrepreneurship, but what would your advice be? To start their goals and to achieve their goals.

Yeah, so I think that's a really good question. One thing I would say is that you were wise beyond your years and I think that you've probably heard that before. I can just tell in the way that you, you speak and the types of questions that you ask. I think I, historically I found myself, you know, when I was younger I was very similar to you in that I was always the youngest person in the room, but I was still in the room. And so I found that that was a very unique position to be in. And I think, you know, in terms of like how to start your journey, I think one of the biggest things is it sounds so simple. Start like so many people think about doing things and talk about doing things, but they don't actually do things. And I like, I can't stress that enough. Whether it's with my own team here, whether it's with friends of mine who potentially procrastinate with doing things, I just, I'm constantly thinking like, just do something like, okay, let's say you have an idea for an Instagram account. Even if you open a new document on your computer, you open a text edit file and you write down a couple of ideas, at least you put pen to paper, so to speak. And you've taken an action that mentally can trigger things for you. Because the other thing that I've found is as soon as you start talking to people about doing something, at least this is what's worked for me. That almost forms a sort of social contract. So if I say, if I was to say, for example, this is hypothetical, Avi, I'm going to grow my business to 20 people by next year, right there. As soon as I tell that I better do that because otherwise my word is useless. And so I found that whenever I have a goal for my myself, if I start talking about it to people that I care about and I care what they think of me, that puts the pressure on me to be like, you got to do that. Otherwise you're just talking and talk is cheap. Right. And so I think about with, with younger people, you know, if you're 13 and you're looking, what's amazing is there's so many resources out there for you with Google, with all these different things, you can learn so much. It's all at your fingertips. And then I think the next step is, okay, based on what you're learning, how are you starting to do something? And it doesn't have to be this huge built out thing, but just taking little actions, Is it writing some notes about something? Is it maybe designing a logo or brainstorming a company name or. You know what I mean, it could be any of those things. But I just, I just can't stress enough half the battle, More than half the battle is just starting.

Right. I love that.

So by the way, I'm the youngest in the row. Okay, go for it.

Okay, so my last question is, what is your advice for beginner entrepreneurs that are starting their journey?

Oh my gosh, this is.

Now she's nine. Now you're talking to a nine year old. This was 13, now she's nine.

I know, I'm like, I wish I was as smart as you are when I was nine, I think. So a couple things. Number one, I am still a beginner entrepreneur. I would like to qualify that. Is it like I've only, we've been in business since March of 2018, so we're coming up on just over a year and a half.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, maybe. And so I think that one of the things that I would to people who are starting out is it's not going to be as easy as you see on Instagram. Like, I think this idea of entrepreneurship, and I know a bunch of people have said this, Gary Vaynerchuk has said this, you know, Ray Dalio, a bunch of, like, really, really smart business people across different types of business have said this idea of entrepreneurship has been glamorized in that it's like, it's now cool to be an entrepreneur. And so that said, there's a lot of entrepreneurship that is really tough. And I think that it can be very, very lonely because people don't necessarily understand what you're going through. And so I think with that, if you're a young entrepreneur starting, I always tell myself that whatever's on fire on Monday, by Friday is never as bad, right? Whatever is stressing you out this week, next week, it won't be as bad. And so, like, I think that because, you know, when you're in your business and you're working on so many different things and, you know, maybe like, a bunch of them are going wrong and there's only one thing going right, and you kind of. It's peaks and valleys, right? The idea is that you want to stabilize eventually, but when you're starting out, it's like highs and lows and highs and lows. And I think one of the things that I found that's been really useful to me is really trying to keep an even keel, not getting too excited when things are going really well and not getting too bummed out when things aren't going very well. And I think that idea of projecting calm is good for your team, but it's also just good for your mental health. And when I say projecting calm, you obviously have to be real about things that are happening. If something's not going well, you can't say, okay, yeah, it's gonna be fine. You go, okay, I know it's not gonna. I know it's maybe not going well. What can I do to address it? And. And so I think that that's something that I found really, really useful. The other thing is entrepreneurship. Since you're doing so much of everything, get ready to be bad at a lot of things. So let me expand on that. When I used to work at Red Bull and when I was at Aritzia and all these other places that I worked before, I was a subject matter expert in what I was doing, right? And so I think a lot of people think, oh, okay, well, I'm really good at this. I Could do my own business doing this. Okay, you take yourself out, you start your own business, but now you have to do sales, you have to do accounting, you have to do insurance, you have to do contract. You know, there's all these different pieces that you've probably never had to deal with because you've worked in a company where all those pieces of infrastructure were in place and you could just focus on being the best at what you're good at. And so I found that, you know, I came out of that, starting my own business, being like, woohoo, this is going to be great. And I just realized, oh my gosh, I have so much to learn from accounting, sales, insurance, contracts, hiring people benefit. Like all this stuff that just goes around with setting up a business that you don't think about when you're in a big company. And so I think that what I. Obviously you want to get as good at that as fast as possible, but just know that you're not going to learn those skills overnight. So I think with me, I was someone who was always working really hard and trying to become the best at something. And when you go from like, being pretty good at something and knowing a lot about it to then becoming the person who likes you don't even really know the basics. That's very humbling. And as an entrepreneur, I think it's important to understand that that's normal.

Got it. Perfect. You have one last question. It's got two parts. What is Charlie's definition of an Internet mogul? And then I'll ask you the second one again.

Okay, so I think my. Oh, that's a really good one. My definition of an Internet mogul, someone who gets to choose where they work, what they work on and who they want to work with. I think you touched on it earlier, the flexibility. That's something that really resonated with me. That's actually why I got out of video production and more into the digital side, is because with video production, you needed cameras and big computers. This is before the laptops were really fast, whereas now I can go anywhere in the world with an iPad Pro or a MacBook, and if there's an Internet connection, I can work. And so I think that's something that flexibility is something that was really, really attractive to me. And so I think that the other thing is being able to work across a bunch of different industries. The Internet is continuing to swallow up so many things. It used to be a marketing thing, but now it's like it's endless in the way that it Interacts with businesses. So I think that's also something that's really attractive.

Perfect. So last question is, you know, what we do to, you know, in our company, what to get clients. We make micro videos and we promote micro videos. Talk about it all the time. Micro videos send our message out back and forth. Sometimes on Asia, WhatsApp is very big. Micro videos connect with a person. Micro video on as, you know, micro video on a Facebook ad and then a video proposal and then getting ready. So everything is around short micro videos. That's how we. What is your take on micro videos?

Wow. I mean, I think that it is the way of the future in that I think that we're just discovering how video can be used, especially on the Internet. So I think that, you know, as we're starting to see things come alive, these newer platforms and how people are using them. So whether it be, you know, I think about. There's a company, I believe it's Canadian based, it's called Vidyard. So they're doing a lot of like.

Pretty cool. I use it all the time.

Exactly. Right. So I think that, like, there's so many different aspects of video. I think that we love this technology. Like us to be able to do this even 10 years ago was like crazy. And so that's also what I'll. That's something that I'll kind of add in is that like we are in the infancy stage of this. Right. Like video and how we interact back and forth using video is gonna continue to grow and there's so many different applications. I think about it, you know, it's like television, when television first came around, whatever in the 50s, it's like, imagine working in television in the 60s where it's only been around for 10 years, I think.

You know, so we're working on, we're working in.

Right.

On the Internet.

It's on the Internet for, you know, 10 years. Right. Like, that's kind of where we thought about it. But now it's like, how can we take those videos and make them more personalized and starting to get into business, have more of a comfort in being on video. Right. Whereas maybe older generations are like, no, no, I don't want to be on camera, I don't want my photo taken. Whereas. Right. Like, we've all grown up with being on video. And so I think that that's something that's going to continue to play, to play a role as business matures and as the younger generation grows into becoming business leaders.

Perfect.

Wow.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. So Like I said, I just started my Instagram account. I'm trying to grow myself like I said. So would you mind if I reach out to you on Instagram? I follow you and I love your pose. So if I like asked you, if you.

Sure, yeah, bring it on.

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Absolutely. Shoot me a message.

Perfect.

Okay, Charlie, thank you very much. This was, we've been wanting to connect for the longest time just to say hello. But then this opportunity came up when we were writing the book and I, we thought of you, the girls started, we all started stalking you on the Internet for a bit and to see which are the right questions to ask the only two questions which are common between all the people that we're interviewing. What is your definition of an Internet mogul? And what do you think about micro videos? Because these are two messages that we give in the book. Everything else is personalized to whatever we can. So this has been a fun 40 minutes. We asked for 30, we got 40. Thank you very much. And we're going to be here in all over for the summers. We're coming back end of August to Vancouver and hopefully we'll meet up sometime soon. And we're launching the book on the sidelines of the Social Media Marketing World conference in San Diego in 2020. We, you know, we request you for some colored high definition photographs and maybe a backstory of yourself. We'll weave it in. It's going to be a nice colored coffee table, but it looks like a coffee table book. But it'll be very user friendly because we want hundreds of thousands of people to be able to say these are 50 people. And then we want, that we can learn from. And then we want to do an addition, an edition of this every year till the girls are with me once they go out to, if they're lucky enough to be able to drop out of ubc, you know, as an Indian father. So till, till that I think till they don't get busy with their universities, I think we're going to do an edition every year. So this is our first edition. We've got all the people that we want reached out to saying yes to us. I think it's going to be, it's, you know, it's going to, it's going to be big and every cent of profit that comes in is going to go to. We've got six dogs and we are obsessed with dogs.

So yeah, it's all going to our favorite dog shelter right now.

Yeah, awesome. That's. Well, yeah, let me know anything you need hit me up. I'm always around, happy to help in any way that I can.

Perfect. That sounds lovely, Charlie. Thanks very much for your time. And once everything is put together, I'll send you the information, you can sign off on it, and then we'll go ahead and start publishing it.

That sounds great to me.

Awesome. Thanks a lot. Bye. Bye. See you guys.

See you, Sa.