How to build a multi-million dollar agency - Part 2

Every time I question him, I get a slap on my face by my own self. And it changed everything.

I spent a lot of time working in advertising, in tech, in culture, community production. Not for profits. You name it, right?

Hey, guys. Hello again.

This is Abhihariya. I'm very excited to bring to you episode number two with Mod Harewal from Skyrocket, a successful agency founder from Vancouver, Canada. There were so many questions that you people had sent that it could not be covered in one episode. So we made it into episode two. These questions are more granular. How to do it? What proposals to send? How much time before he sends a proposal? What are the questions that he asked before a proposal? Secret gems that most agency founders would like to keep secret, but not Mo. He shared everything with you. So I'm thanking Mo on behalf of all of you people and I want all of you agency founders to go deep dive into this. Come out of this experience and tell us in the comments how you liked it. Take care of yourselves, guys. Episode number two with Mode Halibal from Skyrocket. Enjoy yourself.

So, yeah, I was just telling you one thing that my dad told me and just completely changed my life. So I was in Vancouver and I was. He called, I talked to him every day, and I'm like, I just report to him on, like, what's happening in my business. He's not involved in my business at all. But he likes to know, and I'm so lucky that. That he wants to know and all of that. So I'm talking to him. I'm like, I didn't pick up the phone two days. I didn't talk to him. I'm in a crazy mood. So he told me that. Where are you? I'm like, I went to Brain Station to do a course. He's like, why? What is this Brain Station? I mean, there's a course in coding. Few years ago, I said, why? I said, because when I talk to my team in India, they give me all kind of crazy deadlines and I don't even know. So I don't want to sound like a fool. So I want to understand how this coding is. So he says, okay, so how is this coding? So he's angry. I said, I don't get anything and I'm frustrated. And he's like, great. And you're doing something that's not you're supposed to do and all that. I said, what do you mean you're not supposed to do? Do you know what this agency. Every time I question him, I get a Slap on my face by my own self. So I said, who should know? He said, why should you know? I said, dad, who should know? He said, you tell me, why should you know? I said, what do you mean, man? I'm the captain. He said, no, you're not. I said, what do you mean I'm not the captain? Who am I? He said, beta, you're the coach. Your job is to put the right captains. You'll have too much stress. And it changed everything, I promise you. It's about five years ago, I'm telling you, it was such a liberating thought. I just now do what I can, putting the best teams together, and I know I can. I'm decently good at resolving conflicts. I love people, so I'll make sure that they know that I love them, take care of them, but I don't do the work. And the little bit of laziness also helps. Okay, so we get back to those. So we spoke about ads and using ads can get better and all of that. Do you think it's a good idea for an agency? Like, for example, we work a lot with coaches. So we developed an ad saying, hey, you're a coach. You're making $250,000, you're paying 30% tax. You're doing this, this, this, you know what? You're not Left with even $5,000 and you can get a job at the bank down the street for $5,000. The first year of your coming out of your MBA and this is your third year being a coach, I just wanted to make you feel bad because only if you feel bad, you till the very end. And then we told coaches how we can help them and all of that, I did extremely well. But those ads are few and far in between. You know, everything else becomes generic. We did another ad. I walked out of a hotel. It's still on Facebook. I walked out of the hotel and we showed the numbers and statistics and walked out into another hotel. We showed the number statistics, your hotel A or B, and give us, you know, whatever. That ad backfired because we sort of over promised on that ad we want to do, you know, what you did for hotel B? So do you think spending when an agency is starting off or struggling or whatever, when they're doing well, then everything works? You know, I know I can do a lot of things better, but I'm not. But an agency, say in about a million dollars, 20% profitable owners just about taking money. Do you think if they focus on their customer avatar like you said, venture Builder for yourself and they make strategic ads for those people, they will be able to get more people on calls. And second part of the question is, should they, at that level take all the calls themselves? Is there sort of a lead generation strategy you'd like to recommend to agency owners?

Yeah. So on the ad, just because, I mean, quite honestly speaking, we haven't done it well for ourselves. Right. Like we run campaigns that are highly effective for clients. What for driving business for Skyrocket. It's been hit and miss. And you know, at the level that you're describing, I would say if you're really clear about who your target customer profile is, there's a variety of other things that you could do that would probably bring in business. If you're that clear on who you're selling to, going through your networks, actually finding the companies you want to approach, reaching out to them and actually trying to build a connection and relationship.

Oh, one on one, LinkedIn or.

I can tell you that how this business actually started was an email that I sent 11 years ago. Not a word of a lie. And so that's why being bad at advertising ourselves is kind of baked into our DNA.

Okay.

I spent a lot of time working in advertising, in tech, community production, not for profits, you name it. Right. I spent a lot of time as a community.

Before you started your own agency.

Yeah. And so before, you know, when it came time to start Skyrocket, we could just put the name together.

Love the name, by the way.

Thank you. Yeah, it was three of us that started it. And so when it got going, I sent an email to my personal Rolodex at that time of 3,000 plus people. Right. And just said, hey, you've seen me working in community for the past decade and doing X, Y and Z, and I'm ready to do something for myself. Here's what I'm doing. And if you know of anybody that's looking for these types of services, please put me in touch. Right. That email kept us busy for the next year.

Nice.

And it was a couple of referrals that we knocked out of the park. Did really good work, a couple more referrals, and that's been, I think, the core of our business for the better part of it. Like somewhere client relationships still today weren't because we bid on the right RFP or because a certain ad really landed. It was because we just had a great human having a great experience with us and then telling 10 other humans about it.

Fantastic.

So as cliche as it sounds, right?

No, but yeah, Cliches are there for a reason. They're there for a reason 100%.

So that was, I think, historically what our success was. Right now we're starting to increasingly get into the game of getting good at advertising ourselves in addition to our clients. So they're getting clarity about what our value proposition is. Getting really dialed into our customer profile. And then speaking to those pain points. So what you described as far as ab, that was really successful to coaches. You think about that. It's like you went to the heart of their pain point and you felt it on their behalf because you felt it before. Right. And so there's that saying that painkillers will always outsell. Vitamins tend to work. You're selling a fantastic painkiller. Right. Because you identified their intent and said, I felt what you were feeling. You're probably feeling it now. Let's get rid of your pain.

Sure.

Right. So I think speaking to somebody's pain points is always going to be beneficial. And then once that engagement starts, the reason why that client will be sticky and the reason why they'll give you referrals is because later on it turns into the vitamin. They see all the value as lovely bulb on moment.

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about hiring. You know, how is there a specific lot of do's and don'ts that you have that you recommend to our viewers in the agency world?

Yeah. I think for small teams especially, like, you gotta hire for culture. Right? Like hire for culture. Absolutely. I think a lot of people can do a lot of different things and the function winds up being like less important sometimes. Like in the past, I've hired people, frankly, that didn't have the skills because I thought they were good people and we could fill in the gaps.

Right.

And those situations, I was right.

Right.

And I've also hired incredible A players because we were convinced that we needed this a player on the team and amazing everything else. But there just be this like ongoing friction and kind of misalignment and not quite gelling. And of course, same thing, you wouldn't get what you wanted on that relationship. So I think getting really clear about what your values are first and foremost is critical. Right. And then when you're actually looking to add people to your team in the interviews, in those conversations, you know, informally testing for those values.

Sure.

Because you can't just write out and say, hey, do you have this value? But you have to kind of build a conversation around it to see if those values are showing up. But you have to be Clear on what they are for yourself first.

I like that. You know, one thing that I've done that works for me every time is that I call people for an interview at least twice, if not thrice, because you're your best self, your first impression. Second time, you see that the blazer is missing, if at all. You know, they don't have to be. But in India, most people come suited. The second meeting is just a shirt. Third meeting is, you know, you're not even shaved properly. So like, you know, it's like you really want it every time as bad as you want it the first time. And there are people who like show up every time. Like, I want to prove it to you again. And those people are like, I don't even want to look at the resume. I just want them to show up the third time. And I get a lot of flack for that on my channel as well. You call people three times and all of that, but it's a strategy that works. There you go.

You're testing for values.

100%. 100%. So, you know, moving on. I love your space. I'm going to tell Marco to pan around and show her space and everything. I've seen over 100 agencies in the last few years. I've gone to them, interviewed them, all of that. And this is beautiful. I went to Gary Vee's office, like 1600 people, and I was there on a Friday. So Gary's manager said, would you like to come to the cafeteria? And we went there and there like a thousand pizzas being ordered and all of that. Crazy culture, how they keep everybody happy and all of that. But I really love the vibe of this place. Huge ceilings, love those paintings. There's a calm over here. I'm not just saying it because I'm in your studio. You know, I could have skipped this conversation and said, you know, let me not talk about it. There's so much chaos. And there is in some agencies. My agencies are full of chaos. Are you aware that there's a lot.

Of peace and calm in your space? I mean, I guess you don't notice it if you're right. Right. So. So no, I mean, I don't have a comparison because I haven't visited. I think this is just kind of how we show up. So maybe it kind of belies like, you know, intensity. Like, I think our team is quite outcome focused and we do tend to get intense about things, but we're also a very process oriented group.

Really?

Yeah. And so, you know, like that saying, discipline Gives you freedom.

Right.

So because we're process oriented, I don't think we fall into the trap of some of those other cliches about agency life, about just constantly running around like a chicken with your head cut off.

Lovely.

So we're not so prescriptive that we're like tyrants about process, but we have enough really well established processes and ways of doing things that it creates a rhythm and a flow that they work. So there's an expectation of, if we insert something into our production cycle, there's some expectation of when it's going to come up. Right. If we're on an engagement with a client, like I mentioned before, early on, we do a really deep discovery process. We kind of know what phases we're moving through. So there's a cadence to this.

Right. So what's the one word I can use for this? Alignment. Like you guys are in alignment with who you are and where you're headed.

We're talking about that constantly. Right. And so I've actually heard from team members that join us and for compliance that our group is really process oriented and highly aligned. I feel like I can never believe that.

Right.

And I feel like as a team, it's never enough. Yeah, right. Because we're always focused.

Right.

And sometimes it's a little bit of broken tiles.

Sure.

Like you're always only looking at things.

I know, I know. But then somebody, somebody has to do that 100%. 100%.

And then it takes somebody from the outside to walk in and be like, hey, you guys work really well.

Right. So when you say work very well, process oriented, all of that, does that include tools like basecamp and project management.

Tools and, or not basecamp. This is where, you know, I think we could probably go down a pretty deep rabbit hole. That could be a whole hour long conversation unto itself. But we follow agile project management methodologies and so we use systems like jira and our system is such that actually, I'll show it to you after we're done.

Sure.

But we actually generate a lot of data through the system. Right. So the problem with systems like basecamp, Asana and things like that is that whether you're picking up the milk or whether you're producing a 2024 go to market strategy, those are just line items next to each other.

Right, right.

And so what we wind up doing is a lot of scoping, estimation and analysis of the degree of effort that certain things take and the degree of effort of various activities versus the outcome or. Exactly.

Right.

And so, you know, effort versus business value is your impact metric. Right. And so when we're constantly renegotiating those things over time, our production flow winds up being fluid all the time. Right. So again, if a client calls tomorrow and they have a panic because they forgot there's a trade show coming up and quick, we need to do this, we're not really so panicked because in our methodology, the answer is always yes, of course we can take that on. We just need to shuffle some of the things that were planned to a later sprint and then we take this on immediate. So I think like our tools and our processes, these places where we've, you know, invested the time and energy of figuring out ways of working, those are maybe some of the reason why it's not maybe as chaotic here as some of what you see.

Right. So should a business owner, founder, director, operations head, whoever is taking this role on, should they be. Maybe paranoid is not a good word, but let me just use that for now. Paranoid about, relaxed about everything else, but paranoid if a system is broken, because if a system breaks, then all hell breaks loose and you have to get into everything. So do you think like, as your role as the operator, systems are like, would be your top two, three things to look into?

Absolutely, yeah. Because if a system breaks down, that's going to spiral and have impacts in so many places. And again, the idea isn't to be like a tyrant about it. Right. The system is there so that you have a baseline of the discipline that's holding the team together. And then if you need to improvise on top of that, that's up to you then. Right. But at least you're making a proactive decision. Right. There's many times in our brand process, for example, we'll be, we'll have laid out the stages and as we're going through it, we'll be like, actually, you know what, it'll make sense if we change this parts of the process here. Right. But that's okay. That's us improvising for advantage. Right. It's not just reactive and crisis.

Right, right.

But no, I would say as much energy as you can put in the systems as possible, because that, that takes a lot of the mundane, you know, stresses right off your plate 100%. And then it actually alleviates most of your emotional and intellectual energy.

Right, right. I know that emotional energy that goes in when systems break. So we recently had a lot of people, you know, seven people out of 125, so still significant, 8, 9% of the company, two senior people left they took their own teams with them and when that happened, we got a new people. And so for a month those people were not aligned on systems. And I actually had to fly back, sit there for a month and fix that and come back because just that one loophole there would have been enough to, you know, spread HAVOC in a 14 year old agency. And that's how important sometimes systems are. Yeah.

And so this is kind of like a. Putting two of your questions together. Let's talk about hiring. Right. About a year ago we hired a project manager. Resume. Amazing. A player, agile experience, all this sort of stuff. Right. But wasn't a cultural fit. Right. And couldn't align with other systems. Right. So with a resume as deep and as expert as this person's was just couldn't fly here.

Right.

And in less than the three month duration period, unfortunately, we had to part ways.

Right.

And very positively it was like, you know, you're excellent, you're amazing at what you do.

Right.

But we have a way of working 100% that's just not right. And this is a situation where it would have gone haywire.

Right.

Because you know, that one personality, that one lack of appreciation for the engineering that we've done in our systems would have over monthly wrench and everything.

Right.

And especially a role as critical.

Sure, sure. Because you're setting the temple 100% like that. So we have last few minutes left and would it be okay if you could, you know, like we could just walk through your office. Okay. So Mo, thank you very much. An hour flew by. Great office location in the middle of downtown Vancouver. Now before we go, could you show us around and see hello to your team and see what sections you have here.

Pretty short tour. Yeah, we've been in the space for like 10 years. There's a period of time where configuration wise, this was just packed in with workstations. So believe it or not, we had like, you know, 16 people down here, three more seats up top. I used to sit up there. Then after Covid, we went fully remote and then coming back from that, you know, we knew that we didn't want to just have a sweatshop in here.

Sure.

So we ripped out a bunch of the pods, put in more furniture, and now it's meant to be a bit more of a relaxed sort of creative workshopping environment.

Very nice. So you have different departments. Is that design?

There's not many departments. It's like, you know, almost hard desk. Okay. So we have a whole bunch of workstations set up here. Designers, developers, Our strategy team. Yeah. Our creative director is actually based in Victoria.

Okay.

We've got our digital marketing manager, who's up in Pemberton. And before and after Covid, you know, for us and dealings with our clients, everything was always remote.

Sure.

So, you know, this boardroom and the other one, like, we've always been at the end of Zoom calls right up until 2019, let's say about 80% of our client roster was, like, remote.

Right.

So even when Covid hit, it was, like, no difference to them. Right. Because they only knew us from Zoom.

Sure.

But yeah. So this is, you know.

So what do you use for your remote technology? Your video conferencing. Okay. There's a speaker there.

Yeah. Zoom Logitech meetups, some microphones.

Nice.

And the rest is just lots of whiteboard space. Awesome.

Perfect. This has been fantastic. No, now, before I go to all the agency owners watching from different parts of the world in three minutes, if you could give us three takeaways that they can use to either start an agency or, you know, take their agency to the next level. Over to you.

This is, I think, going to be from my painful experiences. Number one, never let up on sales. Number two, remain focused on your processes and your delivery and how you work. And number three, invest into your own brand. It's too easy to get trapped in the rigmarole of just working on your client projects all the time, but it is credible to invest into your own brand. Awesome.

Thank you, Mo. This has been fantastic. Thank you so much for your time.

All right, man. Appreciate it.

So, guys, how did you like that interview? I loved it. The whole vibe of the office. Mo being so open with everything that he's learned because I told him this is be going to to go and help agency owners and founders around the world. So he was so open and transparent and helped us all. I hope you loved everything that he said, but I know you want to learn more, and therefore, we divided this into two parts. So guess what? We have a contest for you. Click here on the comments and let us know what was your biggest takeaway? I'm going to choose one and get back to you, and we'll have a personal conversation, you and I.