How To Leverage The Internet Marketing Opportunity | Golden Nuggets by Avi Arya & Adam Franklin

My name is Adam Franklin and I'm married to the wonderful Lou, father of Bella, a 14 year old Maltese Shih Tzu. And I am the co author of Web Marketing that Works and the co founder of Blue Wire Media here in Australia. So a lot of viewers may not know that I'm technically a biochemist. That's what I studied at university and how I got into digital marketing, Internet marketing, web marketing, whatever you want to call it was I'd been traveling for a couple of years after finishing university, came back to Australia and really wanted to start a business. Now we were open to all sorts of different possibilities, but one of my co founders at the start, my mate Tom, he said why don't we start a web design business because everybody needs a website, not everybody has one and the Internet's not going anywhere anytime soon. So we knocked on doors, we eventually sold our first website and that was back in 2005. Since then it's evolved and now we do a lot of training, education, speaking, online workshops and it's been a fun journey, hasn't it?

My name is ABHI Arya, father of two girls, six dogs, husband to a superwoman, a streetcar racer turned hotelier, now social media marketer and founder of the Internet Moguls of the World, a family digital marketing school. Over to you.

My name's Adam Franklin and I'm married to the wonderful Lou, father of Bella, a 14 year old Maltese Shih Tzu and I am the co author of Web Marketing that Works and the co founder of Blue Wire Media here in Australia.

Lovely, love that. I would love to add a photo or a small clip of the Shih Tzu later video if that's okay. We love dogs over here. In fact, once this whole podcast and school is launched, part of the proceeds is going to go to our rescue where we get all of our beautiful puppies from. So Adam, tell us a little bit about your backstory. I mean, where did you come from? How did you get into digital marketing or Internet marketing? I mean you and I, when we got into these, that was still called Internet marketing. And after that, tell us how you stopped aging after 24.

Avi, that's very kind of you. So a lot of viewers may not know that I'm technically a biochemist. That's what I studied at university. And how I got into digital marketing, Internet marketing, web marketing, whatever you want to call it was I'd been traveling for a couple of years after finishing university, came back to Australia and really wanted to start a business. Now we were open to all sorts of different possibilities. But one of my co founders at the start, my mate Tom, he said, why don't we start a web design business? Because everybody needs a website, not everybody has one, and the Internet's not going anywhere anytime soon. So we knocked on doors, we eventually sold our first website, and that was back in 2005. Now, since then it's evolved and now we do a lot of training, education, speaking, online workshops, and it's been a fun journey, hasn't it?

Lovely, lovely. Adam, tell us. You know, I've been through some of your trainings and I've seen your book, which is where we talk about it in a while. You make web marketing very simple for entrepreneurs who are very smart and understand all aspects of it. When it comes to digital, they're like, you know, we don't understand it and therefore they don't invest in it, therefore they lose out on opportunities. So was it a conscious decision to simplify web marketing for them? Because I like the formats that you have. It's very simple, very layman language for them to be able to understand and invest money, to be able to make money with this.

Look, it was, it was a conscious decision. And I think part of us realizing that we could explain stuff in ways that people could understand stemmed from not having a technical background. So when we were selling websites in the early days, we weren't burdened by all this technical understanding to explain it to the business owners who became our clients. And that's been one of our strengths, I think, to explain things so that people understand it.

So for the audience who are listening, say 85% of them have new entrepreneurs. How would you explain the possibilities and opportunities around digital marketing to them?

Oh, look, it's, it's just, it's huge. It's not necessarily easy, but it's such a global market. There's so much potential and possibilities that it's really worth diving in headfirst and learning, finding a few people who you admire, who you gravitate to, and following their every move and really making it work because it is possible. And it's. It's an amazing world.

So you're saying that for a new entrepreneur. I go online and I search for digital marketing entrepreneurs, look at a few YouTube videos, see the people whose message most resonates with me, follow them on various channels, and then if they have a course, get the course. If they have a free training, get the free training and learn it yourself. And then see, maybe you want to hire that person as a consultant or for Your agency. I mean, how does, how should the process offer a newbie, especially in today's day and age? You're like, I need to get into digital, I don't want to be taken for a ride. What should be, can you break it down for us, the step by step process of finding the ideal consultant for your business?

Look, yes, absolutely. I mean, if it was me starting out today, and this is exactly what I did 15 and a half years ago, is that I found business owners that I liked. So whether it was in person and I could go and ask them for tips, like we had a bunch of mentors right from the start and they're still mentors today. So if you know people who are doing it, ask them kindly if you could interview them, if you could ask them some questions. That's one technique. And of course there's virtual mentors too. So there's so many authors, podcasters, YouTubers, the Internet is full of so much good information. Just Google it, look it up on YouTube and you can learn so much for free that you'll have more than enough insight and knowledge to be able to make progress and make money. And then as you grow your business and you've got more money at your disposal, then you may decide to actually hire consultants, hire coaches to help you fast track that journey. But if you're brand new, there's so much you can learn for free.

Got it. So now when it comes to, because like I said, this is a family digital marketing school, so I'll ask questions from the perspective of young kids and parents and grandparents, everybody coming in. So now people who are under the age of 18, right, we don't want to go to school, we want to learn social media and teach social media or we want to become YouTubers. What do you say?

I say go for it. I mean, do go to school. You may not want to, but there's some things in life as an under 18 year old that we should do. Go to school, but still film YouTube videos, be on social media and be a creator, be a content sharer and just see the types of people that you can connect with. And people are going to want to learn from you because they're seeing you on YouTube and they're seeing you on social media. So you can definitely make a business of it whilst you're at school.

So stay in school, work hard, follow the right people, see their message, it resonates with you. Share your journey with other people, they'll gravitate to the right people, will gravitate towards you. And then you can see what products or services you can build out of that. Now there's a lot of bullying on the Internet. I'm a 16 year old human being and I have so much to share. But every time I take one step forward on Instagram, I get ridiculed and bullied and I come back, what should I do?

That is a difficult one. Bullying is nasty and it's not fun. Yeah, there's a lot to be said for trying to ignore it and not taking it to heart, but it's difficult. And if you're getting bullied a lot, it can be really disheartening if it's happening. Yeah, it's a really, it's a really tough one. Part of me wants to say just, just keep going anyway, but it can be devastating. Bullying is such a, such a devastating thing. It might just be too much for people, but if we're talking negative comments or people that disagree with you, don't worry about them. Just keep sharing your story. Absolutely.

Got it. Because you might want to tell your mind that what I'm doing is helping the 10 others. Let's ignore these two and let my message not stop from reaching the 10 others because of these two people who are. Because I have to tell my mind something for me to be able to carry on 100%.

And what I advise people in general, but particularly younger people, is I remind them that it's hurt people who hurt other people. So understand that they're hurting and they're lashing out at you and they don't necessarily mean it, but they're the ones hurting. So view it through that lens and try and keep going.

I love that. Hurt people, hurt people. So it's not you, it's not about you, it's about them. Okay, awesome. Now I'm a 71 year old youngster and I have, I really have. I love this new field. It's just, and I've, I know how to use the phone now and I, my son bought me a laptop. I think I've got another 10 years in me. What do you think I should do?

Look, 71 year old youngsters have so much life experience, so many stories. There's a lot that they can just be recording on their phone, putting up on YouTube, doing Facebook Lives. I think if you want to do it, it's just going to be so valuable for other people to watch you as a 71 year old youngster, share your experiences and share your stories. I think we should be seeing a lot more of that.

I love That I love it. So obviously, yes, everybody works at and puts forth their strength at 71, your strength is your experience of life. And so, and so many stories that you. And like they say you. I interviewed a 91. I didn't. But there was a quote which said I interviewed a 91 year old person and he said 90% of the things that I thought would go wrong in life never, you know, everything became okay. So, I mean, so, so those kind of stories need to be shared. Awesome. I like that, like that idea. Okay, so. So Adam, tell us. I know you help people build websites and you help people with social media as well. So tell us. I want to become a personal brand and I have this post. Corona World has changed my business. I don't have the same business anymore. I'm now coming up into this new world. I thought I should become a coach or a trainer or something. And I went to, I clarified my niche. So like I was speaking to a trainer the day before yesterday, a dentist who wanted to become a life coach. And I told the lady, she said, I want to become a life coach. I said, no, you don't. She said, I want to become a life coach. I said, what do you want to become? She said, life coach. I said, no, you don't want to become life coach. What do you want to do? She said, I help women. I said, what can you help? My mom, she's 65. She said, no, not senior citizen. I said, can you help my daughter? She's 14. She said, no. I said, who can you help? She said, I can help women who are 40 and feeling stuck in and I'll help them find a passion. So I said, that's where you go. You tell people, I help women after the age of 40 find their passion and create a business around it. So don't say I'm just a life coach because nobody understands that. So narrow down your niche. So fine, I went to avi, I narrowed down my niche. Now I'm going back to Adam and saying, Adam, tell me what I should have as essential elements of my website.

Look, the website is one piece of the puzzle and it's, it's your home base and what we need to have on our websites. AVI is a starting point for people to go on a journey with you. So I encourage my clients not to view the website as the standalone destination, but it's a starting point. So if we can have gifts on our website, things like marketing templates like I offer on my website, you can be generous, you can give people that first taste of value, often in exchange for an email address so that you can then drip feed information and hold their hand on this journey. And so if you view your website as kind of like an opportunity to swap business cards and start the relationship, that's what we need. So a gift in marketing terms, a lead magnet or flagship content and a way for people to connect with you, ideally via email, but Facebook connection would be just as good as well.

Awesome. So you're saying, I love what you said. You said use your website as an opportunity to exchange business cards, not just exchange cards. Give value, give a gift. Somebody comes to your website, you have a lead magnet or a free gift which gives them the value that they're looking for. And in turn they give you their email address which gives you permission to market to them. Tell us a little bit about. Should I have a video on my side? Should I have just a picture? Can I just. I'm shy. Can I just have an audio note on it? How would you. Because I want to be a coach. So we take the example of this recent lady who wants to become a coach. How should my website homepage be designed?

I would think that video is probably the best way to go. But of course not everybody is comfortable doing video and sometimes people aren't that good at it. I certainly wasn't in the early days. So if that is a is too big a hurdle, then I would start with an audio note and if that's too scary, start with a photo. And if that's too scary, start with a description. I would always prefer people to take action and get started rather than get stuck going, that video wasn't perfect, so I'm not going to do anything.

Got it. So progress over perfection and get started and tell people about your message. We often talk about stories. People are like, what should I write? And we find a lot of websites with a lot of narratives which are, you know, maybe third person or, you know, it's too marketing, it's too salesy. What do you think about the power of a story on a website? I started Internet of the World because I spent many years traveling, being away from my girls. One day I went to San Diego to one of the social media marketing world and I met one gentleman and he said, how old is Raya, my other one? She was 12 by then. He said, oh, enjoy it, you've got only six summers with her. That day I could not sleep well and I was like, I need to spend more time with my kids. And that's how Internet moguls of the world was born. So I've story told how this how my business came about. So do you think storytelling is a good idea and everybody should find a story and their why and say it on their website?

I absolutely think that's a really wonderful idea. People resonate with stories, people connect with stories and stories are the way for people to get to know like and trust you a lot more than just what you do or who you help. Those stories are wonderful. And if part of that is also explaining who you help and how you can help them reach outcomes as well, that's the perfect blend.

Got it. Perfect. So tell us a little bit about your book and you know, we want to feature it here, we want to get the links and all of that. We want to know what, what, what what Web marketing that works. I love the title, obviously awesome copy. And tell us what to expect. What can a so this somebody from the Internet moguls of the world could be an 18 year old, 35 year old or a 71 year old youngster says I want that book. What will they learn from this book?

What they're going to learn is two things, Ari. It's going to show you a blueprint for developing a digital profile or a digital footprint that is effective in attracting the right customers in and nurturing the relationship with them. Each chapter starts with a story and finishes with practical how to steps. And each chapter also comes with a template that you can download so that you can actually put it into practice. So it's a very easy to understand. I've simplified it by telling my own stories and putting action steps in and having those resources as well. So if people follow that process, then they're going to have web marketing that works for them.

Lovely. Can you give us a little bit a sneak peek into any one of the chapters and run us through a synopsis of that?

Yeah, absolutely. So if I was to pick a chapter, let's say chapter number one or two, I really like telling the story in here of our first experience. And this is in, in chapter three, flagship content, the cornerstone of your web marketing. I tell the story of reading a whole bunch of books, but in particular David Meerman Scott's book the New Rules of Marketing and pr. It really resonated with myself and Toby, my business partner, but it was about that thick, it was three or four hundred pages long and we gave it to clients as a gift, but they didn't always read it. And so what we wanted to do was have a way to convey the brilliant insights from the book, but in a way that they could digest and understand really quickly. So what we did is we sketched out this diagram that showed all the different building blocks and elements that people had heard about like email or Facebook or SEO or email. And we put it in a diagram so that people could visualize how it all pieced together. And we showed that to David. We said, you've inspired this, we've loved your book anyway. He said that looks great. Could we make a few changes and co brand it together? And that was then a document that we used with our clients. We also then decided, well, if it's useful to people and we followed David's philosophy of being generous with your marketing, why don't we publish it to our website? And that's what we did. So people could download, people could access it through our website. And that really started to get traction. People from all over the world were downloading it. And it is an example of sharing some of your knowledge, making it easy for people and that can just start a long term relationship with people from all over the world. And it's just so powerful and I love it. And that's like one of my favorite stories from the book.

Awesome. So that means use what you have in terms of knowledge, make it easy to digest bite sized lessons either in video or PDF or downloadable formats, easy, as easy as simplifiers, make it as simple as you can for your audiences and that's when they start consuming. So that 400 page marketing book would be gobbled up by marketers like you and me. But for every other entrepreneur who wants just a synopsis, you'll go ahead, whatever you have. So for everybody watching this at any age, life has taught you some experiences. I talk about my daughter who's 14 years old. She said, she came to me, she said, dad, should I start a channel on digital marketing? I said, how much do you know about digital marketing? She says, come on, I've interviewed 40 people, I've been for so many conferences. I said, yes, but what is it that you've been through and has been a challenge for you? She said, bullying. And she lost 15 kilos as a result of bullying. And she was, I want to get back into shape. And then she said self love and all of that and she completely transformed herself. I said, rest, I think that would be a good story. And today she's doing that on Instagram and YouTube. So and it's helping her. So I think that's exactly what you said. Whatever. You said that when we asked you about the 71 year old youngster, your life experiences and then you said condense them in a PDF or a video or whatever format. Make it easy for the world to understand all of that. Awesome. Sorry, I hope you don't mind me rephrasing everything because I'm just trying to make it like a tutorial for everybody who comes and watches should get those easy bullet points to take home. Awesome. So now post Corona Facebook is saying Facebook shops, Shopify has gone through the roof. What do you think of normal brick and mortar businesses who are watching this and saying I'm scared. What can I David? Sorry Adam, this will take a lot of time for me to build a website and by the time I go and research people and learn, I need a check in the next quarter, I need to get back up and running. I have a mortgage to pay and I've been hearing about Facebook shops and Shopify. Can you direct me to the right place?

If you're a bricks and mortar store and you're scared and worried, then that's understandable. I would certainly say, look, you can sell stuff through the Internet as you say Facebook shops, you can set up Shopify, you can literally talk to your like talk to the customers that you know that used to come to your bricks and mortar store and write to them via email and say I've got some of these products which I know you love. Would you like me to send them to you? And if you do, here's what it's going to cost you and here's my PayPal link. You can have money coming in today if you're a bricks and mortar store owner just by communicating with the people in your network and offering your products and services through the Internet as opposed to expecting them to walk in the store.

Got it. So you're saying human beings have not disappeared, they just the Internet and you need to have a online and so they still need most of the stuff that they needed earlier on. Great. So Adam, my next question is for again going back to teenagers, a lot of teenagers, like you know, if I have a YouTube channel, I share my message. Like Adam said, I'll put everything into bite sized lessons. I'll be authentic and I won't care about the bullying and I'll go ahead and I'll be strong and I'll share the message. How long do you feel before a person should have their own product? Because today online courses and teaching online and zoom trainings and all of that is very easily monetizable. I mean I remember when I was in grade Eight, I was being being taught math by somebody who's in grade nine. So at any level, you can teach other people. So for these youngsters who are looking and saying, I need to make some money, you know, what would be your advice to them?

Okay, great question. My advice would be once you build that audience, and your audience might be two people or three people and then four people, everybody with a massive audience started with their first and then their second and then their third person. So as you're building that, you've got the opportunity to communicate with them and ask them, is there something you'd like to learn from me? Is there a challenge in your life? Is there an opportunity that you are pursuing? And by having these conversations and learning what your audience might like can help inform whether you create a product or a course or offer coaching or make something like an app that's going to help them. And so all good products and courses and coaching, in my opinion, start with conversations with the people in your audience or your community.

Got it. So I like what you said. Even if you have four people who are following you, take care of them, ask them what they need, then create a product and you know, a product that comes from market feedback is a stronger product. And then once those four people love what you sold to them, they'll come out further better. All of them tell us a little bit now.

I go and just one.

Sure, just one.

Just one part there, Avi. I would not necessarily build it before they've paid for it. I would say, if you like the sound of this, would you pay for it now and I'll make it for you? But sometimes people give you a lot of lip service and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, Avi, that would be a great product. You go away and build it. And this is the mistake I made and no one buys it. So it's much better to say, look, I'm taking pre orders. You pay your money now, I'll build it for you. And that's how you really know if people are serious before you waste time and money building a product that no one wants.

I love that Chris, you know, Chris Ducker, we were interviewing him and he said the same thing. He said, yeah, that's a very solid point. Tell us what should be. You know, now I'm shifting back to people who are in their 30s and more for digital marketers or people who are already in the course creation business, how would you price a course?

Good question. I mean, there's a general rule of thumb that if you're talking online course the general sort of pricing is anywhere between $97 and $2,000 as a rule of thumb. Now there are exceptions to that rule of course. However high ticket. If there's $5,000 courses, $10,000 courses, they exist, but often that 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, $50,000, that's more coaching and other types of workshops or retreats or all those types of things, or masterminds. So that's a rule of thumb. But generally speaking, the price of a course I believe should be reflective of the value or the transformation that the person going through it experiences. So it might be like a 90 minute course, but if you're helping people win their first thousand dollar client, you could quite easily charge $300 for that because the value to the person doing the course, it's easily $1,000. So it's not necessarily the longer the course, the more expensive it should be or the shorter the course. So they're the things I like to factor in with pricing for online courses.

So if, if I make a claim that I will help you make your first thousand dollars and I can charge 297, 397, should I give a money back guarantee?

I like to. I'm a big believer in risk reversal being one of the cornerstones of a solid marketing and sales approach. It doesn't have to be. I mean, I personally for my online courses do a no questions asked money back guarantee. However, 30 days or 60 days.

Okay. Wow. That is.

Yeah, I would prefer people try it all out and if they don't like it or they decide they don't like me or they change their mind, that's fine. I find most people are good people, they're honest, they want to make it work and refunds are very low. But that said, I honor my commitment and people do want their money back by all means.

That is fantastic. Yeah, but tell me, a lot of people are like, you know, I'm lazy or next week I got a bill which I was not expected. So let me say no to and get a refund from here. How do you make sure that you get genuine refunds?

They don't have to be genuine. But if that was a situation, I would say, look, you've got a bill come in that you need to pay. I'm happy to refund your money, no questions asked. But let me ask you, how much of this have you implemented and do you believe that if you implement it and implement more of it, you'll be able to pay all of your bills? So weigh that up in your decision Because I think most people buy a course because they want to achieve some sort of outcome and they're not just people that are there to buy it knowing full well that they're going to refund it. They're not going to take any action on it anyway. So they're not the types of clients that will become long term clients.

You know, I was speaking to Pat Flynn the other day and like with your email list, it's amazing and you know, and everybody talks about the list and all of that and Pat is a great guy, he's very supportive, you know, love the way he breaks down things. And what do you think about the email, the email list and what should be for all the, the 18 year old guy, the 35 year entrepreneur, the 71 year old youngster, how should they build their email list?

Okay, so email list is still the most valuable asset for your business.

Thank you for saying that. I worked very hard last 70 days to build some.

You did, you did. See the thing is, email is a relationship with a human being. So sometimes people call it a list or a database, which is true, but it's really just hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands of human beings who you've got a relationship with, who you can help in some way and they may buy stuff from you.

Yeah.

So you actually have control of that. Like with Facebook or Instagram or LinkedIn, you're connected but they can change the rules and it's not an asset that you own. So I always encourage my clients to be active on social media but have a pathway back to their website where people can join your email list and that's a stronger relationship with people. So email is super, super important. And if I'm Talking to the 1835 year old or 71 year old youngster, I would say start now, start now if you haven't already started and keep it as your focus. Because I'm grateful that I got active with growing an email list right from the start and it continues to grow every single day. And it's the best way to be keeping in touch with people, to be making offers, to be helping people. And it is a, it's a genuine asset for the business. So even if it's, I mean in the start it was writing to people individually and saying, hey Avi, I'm writing a Blue Wire news email each week. Would you like to be a part of it? I go, yes. And so it started with friends and family and business contacts. So it can be one, it can be done one to one, asking for their permission to add them to your list. So that's where I would start.

So can you tell us a little bit about how to build it? Like you were talking about lead magnets. I'm 71 years old or I'm 18 years old, and you already taught me in the last 40 minutes that I share my experiences online. And then I asked my audiences what they like. They asked me to build a sort of a course or a coaching system. And I've already built that. Now I'm coming back to you, Adam, tell me, how can I build an email list to get more people into my funnel?

Awesome. So this is, I guess, one of the more technical bits of the journey. But what you would do is you would have a specific page of your website known as a landing page. And on that page, and remember, this is like the business card swap. So on that page you have an offer. You say, if you would like to download this web strategy planning template, then all you need to do is put your name and email address in these boxes and then hit the button that says, yes, please give me access to the template. Then once they've done that, the next page they land on is where they can actually download the document. And if you're being really clever, you would have your email marketing system integrated or plugged into that landing page so that automatically that person's name and email address went straight in to your email marketing system.

Lovely. And the lead magnet or the free gift has to be at. What should I say? I'm selling something which is worth $2,000. Does that relate to the lead magnet? I mean, should I show like a $97 value in the lead magnet or. There's no relation to that.

Look, I think the best lead magnets and products are related. Yes. So if, if you're selling a course on how to sing better, then it makes. That's the high value product you're selling for $2,000. It makes logical sense to have a lead magnet that appeals to people who are learning to sing or wanting to improve their singing, so that then as they go on that journey with you, you might give away a few tips for free. But then if they want to sing really well, they should join the course because you're going to provide them all the tools and assets and resources they need to make that happen.

Got it. Perfect. Adam, tell us again. I'm 71 years old and I'm going back and forth to that same audience and saying, I've got so many questions and should I start a podcast? Should I start a YouTube channel. Now, this is for the 71 year old grandfather at home is saying, you know what, I am motivated. Adam told me, I've got more experience than you 18 year old kid at home. I'm going to share my experiences. But hang on, I forgot to ask Adam, should it be a podcast or a YouTube channel?

It depends. Firstly, it doesn't matter. It should be something that you like to do. So if you like to talk to a camera, videos are great. People can see you, they can hear you, they can get a real sense of who you are. If you like to talk and you've got a microphone or a headset, you may just like to tell your stories straight into the phone where you don't need to worry about looking at the camera and what you're doing with your hands and everything else. Some people prefer that it's a lot less daunting to record something on your phone, but other people prefer to write. And so if you were to write ebooks or a blog, then I would just recommend that you do what comes naturally to you.