Reasons for the Increase of Startups In These Times!

Hi and welcome to the interview section on the Askavi Arya Show. The aim is becoming more and more clear. There is a lot of social media, there's a lot of marketing, there's a lot of buzz happening, there are a lot of chapters, a lot of forums, all of that. But still sometimes great opportunities remain missed with the kind of hard work and the kind of exposure that we have as an agency or me as Ask Avi Arya. When we travel around the city, travel around the world, we like to choose, pick and choose some great opportunity that we want to share with everybody, with the audience and with everybody in the industry. And these opportunities could be in the form of software, they could be in the form of news updates, and they could be in the form of some great people that we're meeting. So just about 20 minutes back I was having a great chat with a new friend of mine, Vipul. And I start, I started the first five minutes of, I haven't told him, but the first five minutes of the conversation where I was having with him was, I wish at his age I was that clear in my thoughts, you know, so the clarity of thoughts that he had about what he's doing and he owed it. He said, I've just practiced it because I made a video, but I think it comes from genetics or it comes from basic intelligence or whatever. So Vipul, you're a Delhi boy?

Yeah, born and brought up. Yeah, born and brought up in Delhi.

Okay, and so what, what have you been doing so far?

So I'm a final year engineering student. Okay. So I mean, and right now I'm just dealing in hope with my company called Letrage.

So you've already founded a company?

Yeah.

And how old are you?

21.

Why do you want to found a company? You know, why is this, what was this about starting up?

So actually, you know, while I was in school, I mean, you know, we were a group of 10 friends and everyone landed up into iits and there were only, you know, a couple of friends who had to settle for tire two engineering colleges. So since the beginning you have this cheetah in your mind saying, hey, we gotta do something different from the world. And since the startup ecosystem was booming up and we also got a work, you know, got an opportunity to work with a couple of startup ecosystem enablers and that is when hey, we got to know, hey, startup is the thing that we should do. So I mean after third year of engineering we just got into a co working space and tried to think of a problem and then glad we found a Problem and we thought, hey, this is the right time to tap the iron. So we just started up.

Tell me before I go into what problem you identified, tell me, isn't it difficult because all you engineering students and you get great job opportunities, right? With fixed salaries coming in on the X amount X date of every month.

So Avi, actually you're a social media enabler, right? And you must be active on social media. There's a very good troll that happens on social media, social media that happens to be very viral. In fact, it says in India you first get into an engineering college and that is when you learn, hey, what do you, what do you want to do in your life? Perhaps that just happened and okay, yeah, we just wanted to start it up. So we started up.

But it's easy to convince your parents to say that, you know, I'm, you know, you invested time and money and now you sent us to engineering college. But now I've realized I don't want to do it.

So actually we are a team of three co founders of whom two belong to business friends families. I belong to a business family myself. So yeah, it was easy for me to explain that hey, this is what I want to do. And they were fine with this. But yes, we had a bad time explaining it to one of our co founders family that hey sir, please let him do this. I mean this is the next big thing happening. This is a good product and he plays a good role in the company. He's got a good learning opportunity too. He's got good economical opportunities as well. And you know, after some Excel cheese and after some discussion, it just happened.

So we also get so unit metrics and all you people have been able to fine tune.

Yeah. So when we started getting into the market to raise funds, we have to do that, right? I mean we had to do it. So how did you learn this part? So I sit in a co working space and which one is it? It's 2499 office.

2499?

Yeah, it's in the jury garden. So they have. There happens to be a guy who has a startup and who sits beside us and he's been the director of JP Capital Services for about 10 years in his past. So he knows a lot about finances. And one day when you know. So actually now I'm gonna share a story here. Yeah, so it was my first investor meeting. I went to meet my investors and I didn't know, I mean, what do we really want to do here? So they told me, hey, what's your product And I explained them the product very easily, right? All seamless, all good. And they were pitched and they asked me, hey, what, what, what's the amount that you're raising? And I was somewhere dangling about, hey, I could raise for f. 20 lakhs, 30 lakhs. I mean, I didn't have a fixed amount. So they told me, hey, show me your company financials and show me the forecast that you have for the next five years. I was like, what, what are you telling me? Even the financials for the next five years, how can I even forecast that? I mean, it just happens. But you know, I came back to the office, talked to this guy and told him, hey, sir, this lady was asking for these many financials. So he just helped me, hey, Vipul, you know, this is how you do things. And he helped us build that Excel. And you know, we also went back and Google, right? I mean it teaches you everything. So we googled about those company forecasts and everything. So we got to learn about everything from customer acquisition cost to lifetime value to everything in SaaS. And we learned it and we built it on Excel and then we pasted and yeah, I mean, it was a good one.

Nice. So three friends being co founders is more fun working in the office. Yeah.

Oh, it's super fun, right? I mean, you know everyone, right? I mean, it's like you all are naked to each other because, you know, everything that they, that they get irritated of, that they make fun of and that they enjoy, right? So it's very easy to tap into everyone's mind and mood, right? I mean, you can get them to work, they can get me to work, and we can just, you know, we can just be transparent to each other. I mean, actually your co founder is like a girlfriend, right? I mean, you spend the most time with them, right?

So that's a, that's a good point that you know what to tap into, you know, you know, those.

Yeah. So all three of us are very good with that. I mean, we've been school time friends. So it's the long that we've worked

with that you definitely have mutual respect for each other.

Yes, we do.

You know, otherwise you would say your friend is friend, but not be part of the company.

So you know, when the three guys start up, I mean, you know, competition comes up within the team itself, right? I mean, there have been times when I say, hey, XYZ feature needs to be edited. And when one of my co founders say, hey, no, XYZ is perfect. And that is when, you know, we get into long debate, hey, no. And this is fine. He says, no, this needs to be edited. I mean, mishaps happen, right? I mean, we end up troubling each other. But I believe that's a good point here, right? Because when you do this, you're ultimately understanding your product better and you're making it eventually very, very good, right? I mean, a perfect fit for the market because you have had such a long discussion because your co founder knows about the market, you know about the market. So you know, I mean, eventually you end up discussing so much about the product. You have a good mind, right? So the fact when you told me that, hey, he was slain in Thoughts. Perhaps it's because of those TVs that I've had with.

Okay, interesting, interesting.

Good.

I get to learn a lot from all these interviews that I do as well. So why letreach? How did this name come up? Let's reach out. Is it a Tinder kind of a product? Let's reach more.

So Letters is a web based SaaS solution for websites to reach and re engage their web traffic using browser push notifications.

Using browser push notification.

So the catch here is the websites today do not need to ask the users to install any application or extension in their mobile phones or their browsers and desktops and do not even need to ask them to give in the emails or phone numbers or any of the private data. They just need to get the users to click on a button and the users get added to their subscribers list. The websites then can send notifications to these subscribers on their desktops and mobiles. I mean, whichever device they subscribe to. And the users are free, right? I mean they can get updates from whichever brand they want to without fearing the fact that, hey, the personal data is at stake. And since, you know, since it's a, it's a good one. The engagement rates are good. The baseline engagement rate is really, really good.

So basically to simplify it for people who are listening, letreach is. It's like a widget.

No, it's a code. Yeah, it's a line of code that you need to add to the website.

It's added to the website and then at the back end you can have multiple notifications or if you, you know, for retail or hotel or travel people, you can actually have offers.

Yeah, you can push them. Offers. Push them.

Offers. And you also mentioned that in some cases you can take them leading to another URL to. Could be the Facebook page. Could be the website or could be calls.

Could be.

Yeah, could be the call as well?

Yeah, no, not the call. I mean, you could really get into a landing page and you could mention a number there and tell them, hey, you could just click on this and call us.

Okay, so he can actually. Can he not go to the card that opens up Cricket because it's on his mobile and that leads to a call?

No.

Okay, so not yet.

It needs to be into the browser.

Okay. It needs to be. Okay, it's part of the browser. So. Which are. So you know, if people who are watching this show, what kind of businesses does your product cater to?

So it caters to any business that's online, right. I mean, it could be an E commerce website, it could be a publishing website, it could be a deals website, it could be an effort website for your case. It could be hotels who want to send in to the users recent notifications about the offers that they have, the deals they have. If they want to cross sell something, they could do this. I mean, a number of opportunities could be taken care of, but it helps every business user reach the subscriber and the user at the right time with the right content.

What is the future? So you just started, right? You're 21, you've already raised funding, you have a good product, you're working with people you care about and you respect. This is something which takes ages sometimes just to find three people to work with and all of that. So maybe starting early. That's why I think a lot of people invest in youngsters, because they feel at that time you're not thinking of 10 other things. And so you made all of this work so far. Great. What next?

Actually, the idea of raising funds from this company called V Commission was that they're India's largest separate network. So I think with their experience into marketing, we can exactly understand the mind of a marketer. And the vision ahead is to build a product that serves great usability and that helps businesses reach the right user at the right time with the right content in a way, through a channel that actually converts.

Tell me, I'm just thinking about. So when you have this backend, you'll build in all these offers and all after you understand different industries, you may want to offer a solution where you say, I can automate offers. Like for example, for a restaurant, you might say that 4 o' clock there'll be a push notification going for the pizza or two o', clock or could

be there could be that. I mean, could be done. Yeah. I'm not denying to this, right. But I'm not even Accepting this. Okay, yeah, could be the case that it's in the pipeline.

Right. So then when does your product go international? Or it can go international even now.

So I mean, so we are already global. We serve about 700 plus websites across 24 countries.

We already have 700 websites.

Yeah, we already have 700 websites onboarded. We serve about 2 million requests a day.

2 million requests. So how do you define a request?

So request could be anything, right? A request could be a JavaScript request. A request could be a request to send a notification. Cumulatively, it's two million.

Cumulatively, it's 2 million. So how did you get your first five clients? There are a lot of startups who will be watching this.

I will not say they're the clients. I mean, so when first five people

who said, okay, fine,

yeah, so you know, when we, when we started in August in last year, we've been bloggers, you know, I mean, we've been blogging when we were. Since we were 18.

Blogging on what?

I've been blogging on technology. I've been blogging.

What's your blog? I want to put a link over here.

They used to exist, a block called Techin Talks.

Tech and Talks.

But it just, I mean, it just disappeared after some time. So you don't have to put.

Okay, okay, we won't put the link.

Yeah, so if you want to put the link, put latrice.comletter.

of course. Yeah, that we will.

Yeah. So I mean, we've been blogging and we've been in marketing and we've worked for a number of companies as a freelancer in North America. So we knew stuff and we knew people from the industry. So, you know, once, you know, and when we looked at the technology, we could think, hey, this is the right solution for market. I mean, they have the right medium now to communicate with the users. So we just started building this product and as soon as we were done, we reached out to everyone in the network saying, telling them, hey, please use this product. I mean, this is perhaps something that is going to change your life and the way you communicate with the user. So we got about a couple of, I mean, a number of websites on this. Some of them went, some of them stayed, you know, some of them became our investors today. And, you know, we also got a boat. We also got the opportunity to get a board. Jitendra Vaswani, who's, as I told you, was a very good blogger and he's an influential one. So this guy started promoting us. Then eventually it got into word of mouth. We spent zero on marketing so far.

So basically what you're saying to other startups who might be watching this is you kept on trying different things.

Yeah, I think that's the essence of startups, right? I mean, that's what differentiates a startup from a corporate. In a corporate, there's a hierarchy to match and there's a big architecture to take permissions from. In a startup, I mean, you just think, hey, this could be done. I mean, you know, there are times when you just read a blog, you just read a case study and you think, hey, this could be tried in a thing. So just put things on a whiteboard, you know, and just talk to your co founders and tell them, hey, this is something I'm gonna try. And they say, okay, fine, just do it. So the very, very, you know, the very next day you start doing this and if you get results, go ahead, I mean, go ahead with this test. And if you don't get this, it's okay, man, you have the next case study line up. Right, right.

Tell me, so very interesting thing I read on your website which said that you don't necessarily now need an app.

Exactly.

Right. So explain that part because that is very interesting.

So you know what if you talk about through an Indian point of view or a global point of view, today the best way to reach the users for any brand is through notifications. I mean, people do not read emails anymore. Social media is getting deleted. You have to pay every time, you know, if you want to, if you want your post to be read by a user. So now every business is trying to invest into building an app, but it takes tons of capital to build an app and it takes tons more to actually get that app enabled in a user's phone. And on the flip side, I mean, for the users, the app takes a lot, right? I mean, takes on deep precious memory. It also takes on two number of permissions that you do not even the brands are taking in. And if you look at the metrics, today, There are about 3.1 million apps cumulatively in iOS and Android store.

3.1 million.

Yeah. Which is expected to grow to about 7 million by 2020. So the app Store, you know, the number of apps, you know, cumulatively over the App Store and the Android Store Play Store is growing super fast.

Right.

But you know, as compared to this, the standard specification that we have in the phone stays at about 4GB of memory and perhaps 16GB of disk. Right. So you just cannot install every app out there. Right. I mean, the businesses, the startups, the brands are running huge, tons of money to get their app installed. But dude, I don't have the space in my phone anymore.

Right, right.

And I don't read emails. So there needs to be a solution for SMEs, at least that helps them reach the user through notifications because that's what users love. And you know what, there's a metric by adwick that says 70% users across the world love to receive notifications. I mean, they love push. I mean, you're getting the rightful. Right. Content in your phone, I mean, on your browser or maybe in your desktop. Right. And you haven't searched for this, but this is what you find relevant and you're getting this yourself. So who doesn't like to. Like to be served? So we just thought about this problem and yes, with letreach, any website can send push notifications without having an app. So.

So I was just thinking when you were saying this, there's so many apps. One thing is that, you know, brings me back to, you know, there was a time we used to all keep wallets and credit cards start coming in.

Yeah.

So very excited that air miles. Then we realized. So the first few people who found place in my wallet were the cards that remained or I would, you know, it was very difficult to take out one and put the other. So that's what's happening with the app space as well. So do you think there's an opportunity for a Snapchat kind of an app format that you have 20 apps and then they're only there for four days and then they disappear and the others come.

So that's what that's happening. Right. I mean, their industries, I mean, they're enablers to apps. Right? The businesses exactly around the space which work to get an app installed. But later on, people tend to uninstall that app. Right. I mean, it's the same just happening. You install 20 apps and then you have next 20 apps and next 20 offers, you uninstall the previous 20 apps and then install the new 21s, but the brand loses touch with that user. Right?

Right.

So I believe letreach is a way. Letreach is a channel through which brands can keep reaching their users every time. Right. I mean, with notifications.

So these are people who have to first come to your website or your blog, right?

Yeah. So the way it happens is for the businesses, they just need to sign up and they get a line of code. So they just need to add this line of code to the website. Or you could, they could use plugins that we have, right? For WordPress users, for two users and you know, for the visitors, as soon as the visitor lands on the website, there appears a pop up, you know, and you can customize the pop up in the marketing manager, right. You can customize it, the copy and everything. Right. And you can customize the types of opt ins and with this pop up the users, I mean the visitors are being asked, hey, do you want to receive notifications? And they just need to click on a single button from the browser called Allow. As soon as they click on that button, they're added to the list and we give you all the data from, right. From the location to the behavior to the device to the browser and everything for you to target. For example, for businesses to target with. And the users can. Users, when they get subscribed to the notifications, they do not need to be present on the website. At times they do not even need to have the browser open. And businesses can then even send them notifications and the notifications appear in the phone just like an app notification and they appear on the desktop, you know, in the, as a, as a desktop notification.

Right. So are you saying that this is a game changer for people who are so what kind of businesses? So I mean what, how I'm understanding your product is that it can serve small, medium, large corporation, everyone.

Yeah.

In a similar way, yeah, it's a

globe product, can serve everyone in any country.

So are you disrupting app notifications?

So I will not say I'm disrupting app notifications. Perhaps it's a good, it's not for everyone.

Apps are not for, not at least for small and medium business.

Apps are not for everyone. I mean every small, medium could also build an app, but it takes a lot to, again to get that app installed. Right. And you need to push in offers and everything. Right. I mean, so I'm not saying that I'm disrupting the app marketplace, but yes, I'm just trying to plug into that one loophole that that's perhaps.

Okay, tell me this word, you know, disruption. Disruption. I don't like this word for, for personal reasons that you know, I'm not saying that I'm averse to change, but disruption means sometimes unnecessary disruption. Change is a better word than, you know, than disruption can. If I'm able to explain myself clearly, my question to you is because I'm not a tech team, is is disruption necessary for change?

So I don't believe this. If disruption is necessary to change, I mean it totally depends on what kind of change are we looking at. Right. I mean the time is when you eventually change. Right. I mean even if you look at the evolution, right, from the ape to the human, there have been several stages. Right. And those minor, minor changes eventually change everything. Right. So if you look at the larger picture, it's a big disruption. But if you, if you look with a, you know, with a narrow mindset and if you, if you go deeper into this, you see those little changes are the ones that cause the disruptions. I believe change is, you know, is a, is a subset of disruption actually.

Right, that's, that's nicely put. Who do you have like a role model or. You know, you see all these companies like I was speaking to, maybe it was a year and a half back, only I was speaking to Ritesh. Right. In this office.

Yeah.

And you know, were discussing. Because we had a guest house that he took at one of his first properties to, to test Oyo. You know, it was testing. I was also scared. But the confidence that he had at the same age that we were sitting was that you know, this guy would do it and. But I didn't know he would make it so big. Ola guys, I don't know but you know, everywhere there's an Ola so city may be growing up with new things. So any of these guys who's this one guy you feel is doing a killer job.

So I believe, I mean I would, I would never really want to comment on everyone. I would never really want to even compliment anyone. Right. I mean I believe everyone's trying to fight a war in their lives. Everyone's trying to fight.

No, tell me one, one guy who you think or one app. Don't name. You don't need name the person who, whose app has changed the way you're the 21 year living.

Don't say over as a. I mean I know you're not going to talk about much about the consumer space, but since, since, you know, since I look myself, I know someone who's heading this company. There's one app that I always revere and that's Intercom. Right. I mean intercom. Intercom IO. It's.

It's a walkie talkie.

No, it's a, it's a chat based kind of app. It's a SaaS app, but they have the CRM plugged in. But the way that these guys have built the business and the product, I think it's, it's great. Right? I mean it's a great case study. Too. I mean, they're not a very old business. They're a young startup but growing really fast. I mean, I love the startup. They're also a SaaS business.

So what do you, do you have any? I know your first investor asked you this question, but what is your next five year plan? I know it sounds very boring, but

now you invested for the next five years. As I said, you want to build a company that's sustainable itself, that's profitable in itself. I mean, you know, with the buzz everywhere that, you know, you want startups raising a billion funds and stuff like this. I personally do not believe in this. And in fact, you know, the last time I met my investor we were having a talk on this only and he was telling me, you know, you should, you should perhaps behave like who you are. You're a paniya and you belong to a business family. Ask your dad. I mean, he would never believe in, you know, building businesses over someone else's money. Sure, you've got your seat now. You got to build a profitable company, right? So I think the next five years goal is just to build a good, sustainable, profitable company that lives for itself and then that is able to, you know, serve itself all the food and water that it needs.

See. So tell me, what about your, you know, like work ethics? I don't like to put cliched words, but yeah, work ethics. Okay, let's call it work ethics. New generation versus old generation. I call myself just in between, right? I'm 39. After five years I'll say I'm on the other side. But right now I feel I'm, you know, in between both generations. People say five days a week work Honachi. Yeah, right. Then you say that you have the whole world to achieve. Can you do it in five days?

So I believe it's not about putting yourself to work for five days a week. I mean, it's like you're caging yourself, right? I mean you yourself are trying to limit your bandwidth that you could have, right? I mean, you're trying to limit your potential, right? With late reach. What we, we try to build and what I think, you know, we could be building, you know, is that you should have goals, we should have very small spawn goals. And you should have deadlines as well, right? And you should tell this to your co founders, hey, this is the goal I have for today, this is the goal I have for tomorrow. And you should have deadlines. And what you should be able to do is just to meet your deadlines and literally this is what we do with all the three co founders that we have. And there was a time when we had an intern. We have an intern right now as well. So I only tell them, hey, dude, don't come to office if you don't want to come to office. Right. If you Want to comment 12, commenter. If you want to comment 2, comment 2, go by 6. So we are a 24/7 working company, right. So we work to complete our deadlines. That's it. When that's the work ethic that I think we have. If you're able to do our job in, in the right time, I mean, that's what that serves the best, right? I mean, I mean, who cares if you are sitting on a chair for nine hours a day?

Yeah, of course. So what is the, what are the messages that you. So you've learned a lot over the. Since August, right? It seems like short span, but you must have learned a lot.

I will not say I've learned a lot from August. I think, I think it's about learning from everyone who you meet. Yeah. Learning from everything that happens in life.

So a lot of people who are in the position where Vipul was in August, what would you tell them? Keep working, keep meeting investors, keep going for, you know, startup groups.

I would only tell them, right, that all you need to do is believe in yourself and believe, believe in the work you're doing. Right. I mean, so when we started up, there were moments when we would think, I mean, I personally used to crib a lot, right. I would say since I worked with Nascom and I used to say that, hey, the startup is being mentored by this big influencer. This, start with being mentored by this big influencer with me. I mean, so I knew a couple of influencers out there, but I was always like, hey, why would we mentor me? I'm just 21 year old. Why would you even believe in me? So that time I used to think scribblers, right? Hey, we don't have a mentor board. We don't have an advisor, you know, so every time when we would have a debate, I was like, hey, I wish there could have been, you know, someone superior, they could have been a mentor, you know, who would overlook into the matter and tell us, hey, what's the right thing? So, but you know, over the time when, when now we have our investor and who also joined the board as a mentor, I believe there's no right. We do things. I mean, just keep kicking and it will happen. Yeah, right. I mean, it's I mean it would happen, right?

As long as you don't stop.

Yeah, as long as you do not stop. Just keep hustling, right? I mean, I mean the world is so small, right? At the same point it's so big and when you're 21, you're so young and some people who are ambitious who might think I'm very old, man, I'm 21 Mekaka now, life and stuff. But I mean at the end you're 21, right? You have all the life to live. You have all the experiments to take, right? I mean you have all the rest to take. You all the experiments to play on. Just keep experimenting and things will hit.

That's, that's very well said. Tell me is startup is starting up taking away from your personal time, gym time, girlfriend time?

Surab, I've always, I've always had this thing, I have a girlfriend, you know, who keeps telling me, hey Vipuli, come home very late. I mean, you know, what's this? I mean, I mean half the times when I call you like I'm working, I'll call you later. Half of them only available on chats. So no, at times she whatsapps me.

Is she, is she doing the using push notifications to reach to your website? What time are you coming back?

Oh no. Okay, so then she tells me, people, you need to build a company that has the right work life balance. And at that time I get just, I just get very irritated, right?

I mean, same here.

What's a work life balance, man? I mean, your work is a life, right?

I have always, always, always, always got upset with this, that this is something which is sold to today's generation as maybe was, you know, like soft drink companies came and sold drugs in the form of sugary drinks. It is like that work life balance nobody reaches anywhere.

Exactly, man. I mean if you look at all the company's JDs, right? So since I'm in fourth year, right, we get access to all the placement setup for colleges and every day we'd get an email, hey, this company is coming. This company is coming. This company. I was like, dude, don't bug me with these emails. I don't want to, I don't want to work with any company. I want to build my own company, trying to build my dreams. I'm taking risks, you know. But every time I would read the jd, they would say perfect work life balance. And I would question myself. Hey, what's a perfect work life balance? I mean, are you telling me that nine hours I'll be working. And the rest of the hours, after those 24 hours, I'll be doing some.

Right.

I mean my work is my life. Right. I mean if I enjoy my life and if I enjoy my work, that's what I want to do forever. Right?

No, that's, that's exactly, you know, like for example, whatever you're building up, whatever, whatever opportunity you have. I think I was reaching one of the cricketers, Sachin Tendulkar or whatever book. In fact, my dad told me one thing that focus on like a cricketer does focus on one ball at a time, you know, and then you can't go home and say, oh fine, now I'm not going to think about it tomorrow I'm going to come and restart. If it does not become your life, you were doing your college cbse, icse, whatever exam, whatever you were doing at that time, you were completely focused into that. So you can't, you can't disconnect from one thing if you're trying to build a career.

Yeah. And I believe if you, if you enjoy what you're doing, you don't even need to disconnect.

Right.

Things would settle.

Exactly.

Right. So I mean, eventually what would happen? People would start fitting into your work. Yeah. Right. They would know, hey, this is time you take a small break. So perhaps call in this time. Right, Right.

Send in a push notification between 9 and 12 at night. Do late reach.

That's the time I work the most actually.

At night. Okay, so we're waiting night hours.

Yeah, we work a lot at nights. I mean we start very late, but we work till very late. Late.

That's engineering.

I don't know what's right, but perhaps, you know, I think engineering.

Are you going to be recruiting a lot of people from your.

No, we, we want to stay very lean actually. Okay. I, I personally believe in that Jeff Bezos code that I, I, I believe I read somewhere in your, in your office also that you know, if you cannot feed your team with two pizzas, perhaps you, you're very bigger team. Oh wow. And, and I always believe. Right. I mean we serve our cloud product so we don't want to get into the over hiring. We want to stay very lean. We only want to hire people for the function that we believe we're not able to handle. But yes, I mean ever since it got funded, our investors have expectations and we too have expectations right. From ourselves. True. So there are a number of things that we need to do and there are times when things go out of our hand. Right. I Mean, we all three of us are wearing multiple hats every day. But the times when we're not able to focus on multiple things. Right. Because you just cannot.

So marketing is going to be an outsourced activity. No, you want to do it in house.

No, we want to do it in house.

So any agencies watching, they're not going to teach to you.

I know the agencies can come in.

Okay.

Because we plan to, you know, reach out to agencies.

Okay.

To have a vitable solution for us.

Okay.

And they can use it for their own brands.

Oh, that's a good idea. Yeah, that's a good idea. Great. It was lovely talking to you. I am going to make sure that first thing, one of the main thing that we're going to do next week is that we want to get your letters installed on internetcables.com and some of our clients, you know, we test it out.

We have a very heavy plus one now.

What's that?

We have a very heavy plus one now.

Oh, yes, for sure, for sure. Thanks for coming.

Thank you so much for having me here. It was lovely talking to you.

Take care. Thank you very much for watching another episode where we were talking to Vipul. It was. I normally tried to take some notes and try to understand what I'm going to ask, but I hardly referred to my phone because it just. Conversation just flew because he's so clear in his head and I was having a good time trying to understand the mind of a 21 year old. And somehow I also feel that our office and this Ask a VR show is somehow whenever, you know, in this office, we interviewed a lot of entrepreneurs who've gone to make it big. And the definition of big is obviously to be able to solve more problems rather than just a billion dollar enterprise. That billion dollar enterprise will not hurt. It'll be good fun as well.

For sure. That's the icing on the cake.

Absolutely. Take care. Thanks. Thank.