Why your Facebook ads are not converting | Facebook ads tips | In conversation with Sarah Sal

Read their case study, read their blog post. Make yourself a really good shy. Read it. And if you like their case, I'm like, oh my God, this makes sense. I learned something I didn't know. Get customer who on average stay 15 nights instead of 10 nights. That's interesting. I mean, if. If you're the CEO of Sheraton Hotel, do you want to know how Hilton got tourists to stay an extra five nights? You.

Hey, guys. This is Avi Arya. Father of two girls, six dogs, husband to a superwoman, a streetcar racer turned hotelier, now social media marketer and founder of Internet Moguls. Welcome to my channel.

Hello. Hello.

How are you?

I'm good. How about you?

Very well, Very well. Thank you for taking the time out.

No, my pleasure.

Excellent. How's the weather where you are? Right. Where are you right now?

I'm in Brussels, Belgium. How about you?

I'm in Vancouver, Canada.

Okay. I was like, oh my God, he's taking a call at midnight. India. Yeah, we do that all the time. Okay.

Okay.

Vancouver. It's still morning time, so that's not too bad.

Oh, yes. Awesome. So what I'm going to do is do you have a presentation or something that you.

I do. I have it on my screen, if that works.

Awesome. So what I'll do is I start with a small introduction about who we are and then we ask you to your introduction and then you can jump into the presentation.

Okay, perfect. So I keep it like 10, 15 minutes. My presentation, right?

However much you want. That's okay?

Sure. Okay. Then it's question and answer.

Yes.

Okay, cool.

So my name is ABHI Arya, father of two girls, husband to a superwoman, a streetcar racer turned hotelier, now social media marketer and founder of Internet Moguls. I have two daughters and I want to spend time with them and I want to spend time with my family. And so therefore, whatever we do is centered around videos. We tell people to make videos. We call our number one school Micro Video Mastery, where people can learn how to become video entrepreneurs. And so that's a little bit about me. The other school we are building is called the Internet Moguls of the World, where people from all over the world, kids, their parents and grandparents can all learn digital marketing through all the experts that we call on our programs. So that's a little bit about me. Over to you.

Okay. My name is Sara. Sal. It's a pleasure to be here and I'm going to share my screen, but you need to give me permission to do so. And now I'M sharing my screen. So I'm a Facebook ad specialist at hootsuite and Adespresso and I've been doing Facebook ads for roughly 10 years. So when I started Facebook ads, the Facebook pixel didn't even exist. And I seen the whole evolution of Facebook ads from very few advertiser to 7 million advertiser, where it's cutthroat, very competitive, where you need to up your game. Now, my background, I work in marketing. You would imagine somebody who studied marketing, very wrong. I studied computer science and mathematics. And you might be, oh my God, those are two different world that they don't meet wrong. If you take what we call in computer science and artificial intelligence, machine learning. It started when they put mice in a labyrinth. And if the mice would find the way out, they would give the mice a treat. If the mice take the wrong turn, they would hit the mice on the head. And doing this enough time, the mice started learning how to find a way out of the labyrinth. And it's the same thing with marketing. You're dipping your toe into the water. You don't know in advance what's working, what's not working. You're testing. You're interpreting the number and data from those tests. And based on that, you scale your budget and you spend more. But you never say, hey, I have a marketing campaign, Let me spend 50,000 on this. No, you make very small control test to find was working. So one of the things I did at university is writing hundreds of pages of theories like here. And it made me think in a certain way. In mathematics, you cannot do an experiment and say, this algorithm, this formula work. No, you need to prove that it does. And the problem with marketing, people say, hey, I read a case study that 2 +2 was equal 4 for someone. So if I add 5 +3, it should also equal 4. It's the generalization where people say, video always does well, lookalike audience does better and so on. And people ask me those questions in the absolute what work better? And I say, caramel sauce or mustard sauce? Try adding caramel sauce on your hot dog. Try adding mustard in your cornflake. It doesn't work. It's all about having a certain context. It's the same as if I said, you know what, I've seen a case study that coconut is always more delicious than potato. Wrong. In this picture, coconut ice cream is better than potato or mashed potato ice cream. But there are a lot of very delicious potato dish. And one of the example I got known is Facebook Ad copy. People will say, facebook ad copy. If it's long, it doesn't work. And they assume it's just a question of length. I tried the short copy, long copy. I concluded short copy always work better. And I'm like, maybe, maybe, maybe. The problem is with a long copy is not engaging. It's not high quality. It's teach you nothing, just leading the problem. So last year I picked a fight and I wrote a blog post on Copy hacker, which is the most famous blog when it comes to copywriting and saying, you know what, Long ad copy does work. And this is me picking fights. Somehow it's not picking a fight for the sake of fight, but when people say something doesn't work, I'm like, let's try it. Let's go with an open mind. Let's not go assume it's not going to work just because somebody said it doesn't work. Maybe let's make it work by trying it differently. And what happened? This blog post that I wrote about how to write long ad copy that work. One day I get an email on LinkedIn and say, hey, congratulations, your article is one of the top 45 marketing article for 2020. And I'm like, whoa, wow. Okay, I'll take the. Privilege. Okay, if you say I'm the best, I'll say the best. But I had no idea how they did it. But I say, hey, if only said what I wrote is good. I'm not going to argue with them. No. And what happened? They visited the most popular marketing blog. They used Buzzsumo. And for each most popular blog and marketing, they analyzed which one was at the top. And to my surprise, Buzzsumo told me that my article was at the top. And actually my article got like 11 times more engagement than the number three and five time more engagement than the number two. So often picking a five, seeing something that is wrong in an industry and saying it out aloud. Why you don't agree? It's not about picking a fight for the sake of it, but being able to support your argument works really well. Because if you, if everybody says something and you just repeat it, you're basically diluting your message. You're not going to stand out. Another example is a blog post I wrote for adespresso. It's called what Cat Can Teach Us About Facebook Ad. It was the most popular blog post on the whole website of Addispress that they ever had. They have a lot of blog posts. And actually, actually, actually in February when it got published, it was one of the most Popular number four most shared article in the entrepreneurship and marketing category ahead of Cherish Engine Land, More Social Media examiner, seth Godin and etc. The problem when people write content it's five mistakes you've got to do. But the Internet is full of blood posts that they look like an exact clone of the other one with slight changes. So again, going against the wave or the tide often work well. I got to publish a really well known blog post like Copyhacker Ad Espresso Business to community John Loomer. I even got invited to make a presentation on the paid course of Facebook 8020 of Perry Marshall. How did it start? I just take courses and I loved sharing what I learned. I never thought about it like you know what, I'm just going to write a few things, I'm going to help people, I'm going to answer the question, oh my God, I've been doing it for two weeks and I'm not getting any result. Let me drop it. No, I really enjoyed it. I never thought that companies like Ad Espresso or hootsuite would notice me and say hey can you work with us? Or that the like of very much. I said hey can you make webinar for Facebook 8020 course that people pay like $2,000 even more to be part of. I mean working for Ad Espresso. Hootsuite gave me a unique perspective why hootsuite is the biggest tool for managing organic social media. Ad Espresso is the biggest tool outside of Facebook Ad manager for managing ad and some of the service. I give this what we call coaching and campaign review which means I looked at hundreds of ad accounts, nearly 1,000. That's a unique perspective because if you work for a few clients in no way you would see the inside of 1000 AD account. If you work for an agency maybe you'll see 5060 ad account but not the high volume you see at this person. I wrote some case study for them where I had clan like strategizer and again people thought long copy doesn't work but I managed to help them. When I started doing work for them they were making 40 cent for each $1 they paid on ad. Not good. I moved that to $18 for each $1 they spent ad just by doing what people say doesn't work. It's not about picking a fight for the sake of it but having an open mind to test and learn and letting the number tell me and letting people vote with their mouse instead of going with a word. Oh, I read five case study that this is work. So I'm just going to be a parrot and copying exactly what everybody else does. If you want to check all the case study articles I wrote, you could go to my website. On my website, there is a link to all the article I wrote on other people website or podcast interview. Or you could just check my Facebook. Yeah. And that's who I am.

Alrighty. That was fantastic. Congratulations on all your success.

Thank you.

Doing exactly what you love because getting success, doing what you love is a is the right success and you continue it on. You don't feel the need to hustle. You don't feel the need to go against the tide because it feels so natural to you. So thank you for sharing a very important message with all of us. Do what you love doing and don't do it for the sake of doing it. You said you did all these posts not because you wanted to challenge somebody. You were like, you wanted to do something different. And you said you didn't say you didn't want to give up because you just said, I'm going to get into this and enjoy the process and let's see what happens. So consistency made you win, number one. Number two message that I got from your presentation was you said, it's not about the long form post. It's not about the short form post. It's not about what's working, look alike, audience this, that it's what's different. Try to stand out by doing something different and when the difference stops working, then do something different from the different and that's how you win. Awesome. So that was fantastic. A lot of people need to learn this because a lot of people are listening to gurus and saying, oh, I heard the top people in the industry saying, facebook ads, this format doesn't work or that doesn't work. And it's because I think a lot of people are lazy. They don't want to put in the hard work. And because to be different, you need to think. And they say human beings are laziest at not not going to the gym, at not not waking up at 5 to take the dog for a walk. What the laziest to think and to think deep, to be able to plan. So I learned a lot from this first segment. Thank you very much, Sara.

You're welcome.

Sara, tell us for all the entrepreneurs who are watching this program. Tell us depending. So, for example, I love streetcars and I want to become a racer. This is my race car jacket. I want to start selling these jackets online. My idea is okay, who else loves streetcars? So people who are streetcar enthusiasts, people who have an interest in Lewis Hamilton, who's one of the best racers, or people who are F1 followers, or people who are adventurous, people who love bungee jumping, all those kinds of people who like the adrenaline rush. Maybe those kind of interests, those kind of people would like my jackets. So I would maybe make a separate video ad for somebody who loves racing, somebody who loves paragliding. Different ads for different people. And I can. And I talk about this jacket. The other other is online courses people want to learn. Like I said, I sell a course called Micro Video Mastery where we help entrepreneurs use videos to grow their business. So we reach out to chartered accountants separately, real estate agents separately, people who love cricket separately vs people who are watching soccer vs people in Canada who are watching Canucks. So that. So to be able to have a separate video message for a separate person based on what's happening in his or her life. Like today, if it's snowing over there or if it's really hot or the tornado hit or their favorite team won the match. So what do you think about this kind of. Do you think clients should spend the time and energy to make this kind of detail happen for their ads before they start running them?

I find there is an obsession. Who would buy my product? Who would buy my course? Who is the perfect audience? And I say why they should buy your product. Often I like to be provocative and say, hey, I have this jacket. And I'll tell you, you know why? I could go to Aliexpress and buy a jacket for $5. Why should I buy your. And maybe you defensive and you say, yes, but for Canadian winter, where it's snowing, you have something that keep you warm and it's not heavy. Or you have something that is not made from plastic, where you feel like you're in a sauna. And after you become defensive for five minutes, I'm like, this is your ad because you told me why you are different. Because don't forget, if you could reach car racing enthusiastic on Facebook. So every single one of your competitor and I say Facebook ad is about disqualifying the competition. It's like, why is your product better? The other reason. There are multiple reasons why somebody might buy your product. Let's assume I'm London tourism board.

Can you stop sharing the screen so I can have a full. You know,

I stopped it. The other reason is why should. Somebody might want your product. You tell me why it's different. But they might want to buy for A different reason. It's like if I'm London tourism board, I cannot say party every night in London or you could party 24 7. No, some people go for that. Some people go for the architecture, Some people go because There is over 200 museum. Other people go for the food from the whole world. Other people go for the botanical, galleonic, et cetera. And if you're selling a course about Facebook ad, maybe some are agency that they want to be more effective. Maybe some are business owner that want to do with them themselves. Maybe other are business owner, they don't want to do them themselves, but they want to know when an agency is legitimate or not. And then you have multiple messages. You don't know which one is going to resonate. You just put it out in the wine, spend $20 on each, find which one is working better. You might find that one if let's say you're building your email list for promoting a course is getting you alt in a $2, the other one a $7, you don't know which one is working in advance. But by testing multiple one, I said, oh, this will work better and you just launch it. The other thing, do you have existing client. Talk to them, talk to them, talk to them, find why they bought. You might assume they bought for one reason. The reason they bought is very different. So you want to use a language that is very similar to people who already gave you money. I tell people, you know what if somebody gave you money, send them a $50 Starbucks gift card, talk to them for one hour because survey, they might write a reply for one minute. But if you go deep and you ask question and you interrogate them. Actually, I run ad for a copywriting mastermind and I worked with a colleague and when she was watching the interview, she borrowed $2,000 from her father so she could jump on the course. So she went from being an employee to a client. And I tell people, hey, I don't have money to pay you, but I want to know all the secrets. This is military interrogation. I'm not leaving. You tell, you tell me everything because then I have really great content. I mean, I tell people, forget his Facebook ad, forget the algorithm. You're talking to a human. You're in a coffee shop, you're interrupting people. What type of interruption? Work. If you're interrupting people say, hey, buy my product, it's 50% discount. People say, hey, I'm reading a book. This is not interesting. You see, but if somebody is in, maybe not Vancouver, Toronto, where it's snowing I'm very cold. And somebody say, hey, I bought this T shirt and you know what, it's perfect for winter, but I don't need to wear 10 layers. Do you think people are going to turn their head and say, oh, tell me more. That's the type of conversation you want to have on Facebook.

Got it, got it. So, and when it comes to, when it comes to selling digital products, what would be some of your advice on people, on how they. Because a lot of people today, especially after the lockdown and the pandemic, are saying, let me put my information into bite sized lessons, my knowledge into bite sized lessons and create an online course. And they do a very good job, meticulously, nice course. They've done the research that Sara has told them to do and they come up with a course. Now they're like, oh, I don't know how to run Facebook ads. So what is your advice? Should they hire an agency? Should they learn Facebook ads? Are there any tools that you recommend they should do? How should they go about their journey?

It depends where their business is. There are some people who say, you know what, I have a very successful business. It's given me 100,000 per month. I'm more time poor than cash poor. Hire somebody who have a track record, okay, don't just go into Google type agency. And the first person said, hey, by the way, I happen to be an agency, say, here's the money. Because I heard a lot of stories, people saying, hey, my God, I gave somebody $10,000 and they didn't know what they did. Read their case study, read their blog post, make yourself a really good shy, read it. And if you like their case study, like, oh my God, this makes sense. I learned something I didn't know then. You know, they are good. And then there are people who are cash poor. I mean, somebody might say, you know what, I got fired from my job. I only have $2,000 left in my bank account. Don't hire an agency. Try to do it themselves. Because when you grow and you're successful and your time poor, you could outsource it. But when you're starting out, you know what, an agency is not going to try to figure it out if it's not already selling and working on it. And I mean, you could find the best expert. If people are not already giving you money, you could have the best expert. Doesn't mean you cannot sell something that market doesn't want. So you want to have the product market fit. You see, it's not about the Facebook ad. Something that sell well via email marketing, that sell well via organic, that sell well via any other medium. If you advertise it on Facebook, it's going to do well. But if something is getting zero sale just because you put it on Facebook ads, it's not going to do well. You cannot amplify what people don't want.

I like that. Awesome. And what about the tools? What tools should they use to research that? Like, you know, tell us a little bit about adespresso, Hootsuite, some of the tools that you work with. How can these be incorporated for people who have no idea about tools and they're new entrepreneurs in this field?

I wouldn't start with tools. And I worry. I mean, I Espresso, he's one of my clients, so normally I should sing their praise. But it's a tool that is going to save your time. It's a tool that allow you to make split tests faster. But your first problem when you're launching some ad, it's not doing fast, it's getting the first sales. So you have a few questions in your mind. Well, would people buy it? Because there are things nobody's going to buy. I mean, it's like they say, try selling isobay schema. Having the best tool is not going to sell Isobay schema. Oh, some people buy it. Is it profitable? Just because people are giving you money, it doesn't mean it's profitable. Can I make it profitable? Oh, now you make it profitable. How far can you push it? But start by trying to sell it by having top content, having good email marketing. Here is the thing. Facebook is just one touch point. But people exist outside of Facebook. Facebook. Maybe people are on their mobile phone, on the traffic light. They're not going to give you a lot of their attention, but they might give you their email. Because it takes one minute to understand how there is an awesome ebook for the best vegan Indian cooking. But then they might spend more time behind their desktop laptop and read their email and then you feed them more content. It's more about having multiple touch points. Not Facebook versus Google versus email. No, each one of them. The user exists on all of them. So you want to start at first touch point and then give them content and follow them around. That's what matter. Not the tools. Research, talk to people. I give you an example. I have a client that sells Spanish language courses and he assumed people wanted to be fluent. He sent a survey. People said, I don't care about being fluent if I'm in Spain. If I'm Mexico, if I could order a hot chocolate and a croissant, I'm happy. I don't want to follow the political debate on tv. So telling people, oh, hey, how could you find your way around? Was more important than fluent. He made way at first he made like $5,000 and said by be fluent in Spanish, no, no, no, no, no. Know how to order coffee and give the taxi instruction. Get him $20,000 in sales. But the biggest struggle, people said, oh my God, I've been learning Spanish for five years. And then when native speakers speak, they speak and so fast I don't understand. Oh my God, I feel like I learned nothing. And by having the landing page, the email, the product, talking about that specific problem, he made $81,000 sales in two week.

Nice. I like that. So, Sarah, when it comes to, when it comes to building an email list, you spoke about email list and its importance. How good is running a lead magnet ad on Facebook to build an email list? Because you said, are they serious people? Would you say that there are or these are people that you nurture and make them serious?

You need to nurture and make them serious. Often the problem with people who are marketers or business owners who learn about Facebook ad, they think it's about perfect audience. They go to a coffee shop, they see a girl and say, would you marry me? And if the girl said, what the fuck? They said, I need to go to another coffee shop. And then they say, I've been to five Starbucks, nobody want to marry me. Maybe I should go to French restaurant. I hear that people in French restaurants are more likely to get married. And it becomes the approach. So it's about, yes, give value. Have people learn something they didn't know before being in your email list. Have people see you as an expert. And of course, there are people in different stages of the funnel. There are people who don't know they have a problem that can be solved. You could educate them. They have people who know there is a problem. They know that current food give them diabetes and make them fat and unhealthy, but they don't know what is the healthy alternative. There are people who know there are healthy alternative and they're like, why should they use your cooking course when I could buy spinach juice at Whole Food. See, and those people, you need to tell them, yes, spinach juice is good, but you cannot drink spinach juice every day for five months and nothing else. You need protein, you need nutrient, you need something else. So you need content for different stage of the funnel. But yeah, don't ask for marriage on the first date. Like, hello, I have a course and it's $900, but today is 800 and you will regret it for the rest of your life. Even if you never heard of me, you don't want to do that, right?

Awesome. You know that you speak well and you're super funny.

Thank you.

It makes all the learning so much more interesting when you, when you give stories and explain it like that. I'm having fun. Thank you very much.

Cool.

So, Sarah, when it comes to. So, yes, nurture your email list, but it's a good idea to run lead magnet ads to get emails from Facebook and then audience and then build your email list. Great.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Now, what about what is your take on webinars?

They're amazing, but the way people deliver them is horrible. Especially people. Okay, maybe I'm in the marketing community. I know people who have seen multiple webinar and I go to a webinar and the first thing they tell me, Facebook have 2 billion users. I heard this 500 time. It doesn't add value. It's nearly like people are pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, and delivering no value. I mean, you know what? Today I'd rather pay for a course because I know I'm not going to waste my time. I know that because if I gave money, I'm like, no, no, you need to give me value. I need to learn something from you. Well, free webinar where so many people are doing them. I'm like, you just leading the problem, telling me I could give you money. Here is a testimonial. But testimonial. I could go on fiverr and buy them. I mean, actually you could pay somebody $20 on Fiverr and the person would say, I am a lawyer. I love Sarah. And then I pay them another 20 and say, I'm a teacher. And then they say, I'm an a kung fu fighter and so on. People don't have the reason to believe testimonials of somebody they don't know. Teach people. Like, if people learn something after the webinar that they didn't know beforehand, it would do better. I give you an example again for the language client. He had a webinar that was leading the problem, saying, hey, what would it mean if you speak fluent Spanish? Here is somebody who is speaking. Imagine going to the market and ordering. But sometimes the problem is not everyone want to speak five languages. Everyone want to be very healthy. Everyone want to look like they're 20 year old, but you have reason to believe you're the one who can provide it. To me, the desire is not the problem. And the webinar that was bleeding the problem. Somebody left a comment saying, I was going to buy your product. You wasted one hour for my time. I'm not buying. And I showed him a format of copy hacker called Tutorial Tuesday. They're in the marketing niche, very competitive. But she never would. You want a wee bit? Never run a webinar that is like how to make money online. No, she would have a webinar about how to write a headline for your blog post. How do you select a blog topic that people want to read? If you're a software as a service, how do you write an onboarding sequence? So people show up to your webinar, how do you send a call out? It's very, very, very detailed and short. You learned something from them. And I showed the example of a client and he was. But the guru saved that. Just try it. Here is what people are saying at the comment. It made day and night difference when he focused on a specific problem people had in that niche where it's basically answered of pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch, pitch. Give five minutes of value, no value, value, value, value, value, value. 90% value, maybe 5% pitching. And that worked much better because the 90% value make the 5% of pitching

more believable, more believable, more realistic, more, you know, then you have. So a webinar is good because 60 to 90 minutes with 500 people together and they're all thinking, wow, I learned something new. And some people buy. The other system that I, that I do for my webinars is that on the day of the webinar, I do no selling. I create value. And I say, if somebody liked it and wants to know more about the product tomorrow, same time. So then people who come for the webinar the next day, those are the people who are coming trained to ask questions. And maybe they know I'm going to pitch. So they're ready for.

That's smart.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's smart. Another thing, consider that a webinar is 60 minute. If you have an email list, let's say 50,000 people, they've been on your email list for a while. If you say, hey, do you want to spend 60 minutes with me? They might say, why not? Now imagine you're on Facebook and you have people who work in finance who are doctor who are dentists who tend to be very, very busy and said, hey, do you want to Spend one hour of your time with me and I'm like, one hour of your time. Or I could watch Big Bang Theory and Big Bang Theory. At least I know they're funny. Or one hour of your time with you. Or I could go to a restaurant and not see a laptop in front of me because I spend already 10 hours per day on my laptop. Now what you could do is short video like you said. Okay, you're the video academy. Sometimes people might watch 10, 5 minute video instead of one hour webinar because it's more manageable. So it's also about basing your niche. Sometimes try both. Maybe you find that people might watch one video, two video that are short and before they know it, oh my God, I already watched three hours of the lesson that person gave.

Got it, got it. So keep trying. There are multiple formats based on your audience, but everything ties back to what you said in the beginning. Research. Give that $50 card. Give value. Talk to those people in person and they will tell you that they never wanted to speak fluent, they just wanted to hail a cab in any country, that Spanish country. So once you know your customer and what they want, that's when you can also choose what kind of webinar to do, what format. And the entire process of creating a product and delivering a product becomes so much more simpler. And this is something which seems so simple. Why is it that people don't do it? Sarah? Because people don't want to put in the hard work. But they're already putting in the hard work by failing so many times and trying to reiterate something which was not a product market fit.

Anyways, I think people are lazy. And I have a theory. While people focus on the perfect audience, because you have your own course, webinar, landing page, email sequence, content, good content take time. You cannot create good content in five minutes. But if you have an existing content and you tried it with one audience and it failed, trying a second audience. You duplicate an ad and you target somebody new. It takes you five minutes. You see, it's an easy fix. Now, if you have a content and I like, maybe it's wrong. You need to recreate a lot of thing. You need to recreate your blog posts, your email list, your ad, your webinar, and so on. That take more value, but more time. But when it works, it works really well. But they also mean because people tend to be lazy, a lot of your competitors are not doing that, which means you're not two times better than your competitor, you're ten times Better than your competitor because all your competitor is like, where is my dream client hiding? It's like for some time people said, oh, target people with money to the point where I'm sick. I mean, we all have been tourists somewhere where the taxi think we're an ITM card walking and it really annoy us. And if you're a hostel with 20 people sleeping in bunk bed, you cannot say, I want to target rich. I mean, McDonald's sell to the poor and they make way more money than Gordon Ramsay. You see, But I tell people, yes, targeting is important, but it's over exaggerated. And since 90% of people who see an ad for Rolex for Ritz Carlton can never afford one or the other. But if you tell, hey, if you're a businessman from China, you're out in Vancouver, your jet lag is 2 in the morning and you're vegan, no problem. Our chef at two in the morning will kick. You will cook you something that is gluten free and vegan at 2 in the morning. That's what makes you happy. And that's why somebody with money said, yeah, the risk Carton is worth $300. You see, it's the same thing with Rolex. You know what, it's like a submarine. Sure, some people think the ad cannot afford it, but for those who could afford it, it means it has a certain statue. The ad creates the stature or prestige among the rest of the population. So yes, you want to target the right. I mean, here's the thing. I don't want to run ad in India saying we have the most delicious beef steak because people don't eat beef in India. You see, sure, you don't want to do that, but it's one part of the equation. You see. Now if I'm selling tofu in India, it's not enough. Why is my. It's like if people say, you know what, I don't want tofu, I want paneer. You need to tell them why. Maybe some people have some health problem or digestion problem. So you're not telling everyone, hey, paneer you're eating for the last 5,000 years is bad. You say, no, no, no. If you're somebody with digestion problem, then this is why tofu is better than paneer. You see, it's like it both go hand in hand. You cannot talk about targeting without the content that go to that targeting.

So all this comes naturally to you because you've been doing it for 400 years. It's like it comes so fast to you so many examples of paneer and you know, how the Indian culture works and you know, versus what's happening in Canada with the Chinese tourist who's coming at 2am how do you get all of these ideas after 10 years?

It comes naturally. And I'm IHD so sometimes it helps to connect different things when you're hyperactive.

So now I'm going to ask you a very important question.

Sure.

Do you like butter chicken?

No, I'm vegan.

Oh really? You like butter paneer?

No, because it's vegetarian.

Okay, so not even butter.

Two foods.

I need to target you with an ad. What should I write?

Maybe mango sticky rice, which is Thai. That would be really good.

Create an ad to reach out to Sarah for you to come to my restaurant. If I had a restaurant. You're in Brussels. Maybe you're traveling to India in some time or maybe I have a few restaurants in Europe, but not in Brussels. And you do travel. You have an electric bike and you, you know, do you have an electric bike?

No.

Okay.

Brussels is dangerous for bikes. I love biking, but it's dangerous for bikes.

Okay. Okay. So it's not dangerous for diamonds though.

No, that's an entour.

That's an entour. Okay, so see, I got you all wrong. So how do I get in touch with you? Help me write an ad for Chada.

I would say if you said paneer curry, but that is vegan. Because you could make vegan cheese that is made from cashew. I would say okay, I want to try that. Because if it come to butter chicken, there's butter chicken. Butter chicken, butter chicken, butter chicken. There is maybe 50 restaurants that offer it. If you tell me. Oh no, no, no, no, no. We have a paneer curry that is made from vegan cheese. Then it's worth it for me to travel maybe the extra 30 minutes because you're the only one who was offering it. So that, that would be.

Got it.

Offer something nobody else is offering and

I'll make it a home delivery just because you helped us with this interview.

Sure, sure, sure.

Awesome. So tell me, you know when people run ads for hotels? So you spoke about Ritz Carlton and all these customers. I think about hotels. So let's give an example of a very fancy five star hotel. 4, $500 for a room night minimum weekend stays about 3, $4,000.

Yeah, should.

Is it a good idea to target show a different ad to the father showing that there's a business center. Even though he's working, he can still stay connected maybe to the Mother, I'm assuming one of them is working. So the father or the mother. Show business center. The other person sees an ad of the children playing in the pool and the kids see. Or the mother sees the daycare and the kids see video games. And all three people see different ads. To be able to have all the influencers come together. And what do you think about that strategy?

The problem when you said show the father the ad, you don't know who's the father. And Facebook, because people will create a profile for their cat. They say the cat and the father and the mother of the cat. So they say, facebook know you better than your mother. Oh, God, that's so wrong. A mother will know. Facebook doesn't know when you're guilty and where you did something you shouldn't do. But you have multiple messages. The number one, let's say you're in a country where the WI fi is horrible. And I've been to a lot of. You could have an ad. I mean, it's an experiment. Okay. You never. I know some big brand, the way they do it said, oh, we have a message. We have those five message. It's approved by PR, it's approved by legal. Let's put $500 for each of them equally. You don't know which one people care more. So you might have a message about the five WI fi for business people. You might have a message for the location. You might have a third one about the food. You might have a fifth one to say, no one in Bali is better at yoga because we're the only one who have a yoga instructor with 30 years of experience who speak five languages.

Nice.

See? And put $20 between each one of them, and you would find one of them is doing way better than the other one. And the one that is doing better, you put more money behind it.

Have you heard of this gentleman called Gary Venezuela?

Maybe one.

No, one minute.

But targeting. Forget about targeting stranger. The website already is getting visitors, you see. And if you're the risk Carlton, you're 100% sure that somebody who visited the Risk Carlton visited the Intercontinental website, visited the four Season website. Target people who already visited your website to squeeze the lemon harder and get more juice with that content.

Love that. Love that. Thank you. Sorry for interrupting your thing because this was a huge golden nugget we would have missed out on. Most big brands like the ones you named have existing traffic on their websites. And then those traffics are sure to go to similar competitors. Those people have already expressed intent to buy. They've already come to your page senior rooms, seen the rooms category and seen all the prices. Retarget them, remarket them because those are the most likeliest to convert instead of going out to a newer audience first. Got it. Perfect. Thank you. You know of this gentleman called Gary Vaynerchuk?

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So Gary always says because if you said no, then I would have, you would have had a nice edit towards here. The only person marketer who says they don't know Gary Venice. Anyway, so Gary says when you're running ads on Facebook or whatever, the creative is the variable for success. What do you think?

I agree.

So I have to show you the color, the, the, the, the look and feel of what you like only then. Or I have to show you a video or I have to show you an image, something that makes is for you. Right. Okay.

Except you don't know. You cannot know what's for me. This is why I said you have multiple messages and you let people vote with their mouths.

Right.

Because you make an assumption about what I like and people ask me what work. I mean people said oh, you work for ad espresso. Can you whisper in my ear what work? Test, test. Really? No. Instead of assuming test, test, test, test, show the same audience, 10 different ads and people are going to vote with their mouths and select the winner.

Nice.

I mean basically you're making the content fight one and another in an idly battle. And then the winner said, hey, you get to spend more money on me. Advice.

Which is your favorite country that you've traveled to so far?

Thailand. Thailand.

Which is the favorite country? Which is the country that you want to travel and never been to so far?

That's a good question. Bali. I don't know, maybe Bali because it's vegan friendly.

Okay. Who is your favorite digital marketer?

I like Perry Marshall, but I like more Joanna Webe because she's down to earth. I mean she has a very successful business. She could run ad and content in 5 star hotel and Ferrari cars and etc. She does none of that. She show you a picture of her of her cat jumping on the table. But then everything she does is content. Value, value, value. So she doesn't do what everybody else does. Like look how successful, how rich I am. No, she provide pure value on top of that. So I said Joanna Wibe for sure.

Got it. Cycling or going to the gym?

Cycling.

Okay. Dogs or cats?

Cats.

Okay. Smartphone or a laptop?

Laptop.

Home with a movie theater or home with a pool. Okay. Bungee jumping or skydiving? Bungee jumping, coming to India and speaking in front of 10,000 people or doing a webinar for 5,000 people every day.

Webinar.

Okay. Friends. Well, you know, when it comes to friends, what, what are the three things that you look for in a friend?

Somebody Funny.

Okay.

Can I say the same answer three times? Funny. Down to earth and modest.

Okay. Doesn't matter if they have a bike or no.

No.

Okay. So I'm just trying to get your customer of thought so I can target you with the right ad.

Sure, sure.

Okay.

I mean you already know which company I work for. If you go to LinkedIn. I know we talked about Facebook ad, but if you go to LinkedIn and you target people who work at both ad espresso and whose suite. There you go.

Awesome. So let's talk about that. So when it comes to targeting people based on their professions. So entrepreneurs are different because they are not under a professional category as sales or marketing or whatever, but everybody else is. So I have a high ticket product and I have to sell it to the CIOs and CTOs of a company versus the same product is to be sold to entrepreneurs. What would be the two marketing strategies?

LinkedIn is good if you have a very narrow market because people don't put their job title on Facebook. Or people, or people say I had a PhD at School of Life that's not really. Or people say CEO. I mean actually, actually, actually I made a test. I said I want to target people who work at Microsoft and who are CEO. I had 300 of them on Facebook that tell you about what people put on Facebook on LinkedIn. It tend to be more accurate. Now if I was going to target CEO at a big company, I would use multiple channels. I would use even snail mail and send them a good treat or a chocolate or a, or something they love. Because in a sense if you're asking for somebody attention, it's only fair that you spend time knowing who they are and what they love and not show them the same message as 500 other people. I mean, if it's CEO, is it worth it to spend an extra hour or two to learn about them and show them a hyper targeted message? For example, I was interviewed on the podcast Everyone hates Marketer. They interviewed Joanna Weber. I happen to have written a blog post for Joanna Weber. And one of the thing I said, oh, you put Joanna Webe on the spot. You ask her how would you market the Simpson Museum. I could tell you how to do it for Facebook ads. This showed that I listened to who he interviewed and on the interview said, oh, your pitch was better than 90% of pitches where everybody is sending me a copy paste. I know you're good at copywriting. I know you spend the time getting to know me. So the other thing, let's say you're targeting the CEO of Sheraton Hotel. Grow your hotel is not interesting. Learn how I helped Hilton hotel get customer who on average stay 15 nights instead of 10 nights. That's interesting. I mean if, if you're the CEO of Sheraton Hotel, do you want to know how Hilton got tourists to stay an extra five nights? You would. So that personalization, you know, you're really

good, you know that I don't.

Thank you.

It's so much fun. I mean I have, I love doing these interviews. I love building two of my schools. I built an agency from four to 200 people. And I say that with all humility because my dad always says that I like to go to the temple because I feel it's a place of calm and I can, you know, I can talk more. It's a routine. I mean like people go to the gym, they can work out at home. So I go to the temple, I can pray at home as well. So that's why I like to go to the temple. But my dad always taught me, Sarah, he always said if you take care of your business, which has got your customers, your vendors and your teams, you're taking care of four or five hundred people and their families do that job well, you're anyways doing God's work. Work is worship. He has always taught me, you know, to be able to do that. So I always enjoy doing things I love. You know, I'm happy most of the times and so I like to meet more people. But recently I was interviewing somebody who's part of this series. He's the 30 year old entrepreneur who built a very successful company on outsourcing to Philippines from America. And he built a $12 million company with all bootstrapped, no funding, nothing. And one of the things he said was that he said, I feed three people every day. My mind, my body and my mind, my body and my intellect. So he said, I read a book, I go to the gym and I meditate. So I was like, I don't read a book, I don't read a book. What should I do? But I was like, hang on, I do an interview every day. I am learning from the best people. We're having a conversation and I'm learning. So it's as good As a book. Then I felt happy that I'm doing that. So Sarah, we just have five minutes left. What do you do to refuel different aspects of your life?

Curiosity. I think curiosity is really important because you remember I started by saying I started computer science science. Then I was I want to study mathematics instead of computer science. And I did that. Then I'm like, I want to do a PhD. Then I dropped out of that. But suddenly it make me connect different things that you would not think they are connected. Yes, you could be a specialist and you could do the same thing for very long, but you're never going to be a specialist in 10 thing. You're going to be special to one or two things. But if you learn a little tiny bit what other people do in different discipline, you would learn a lot curiosity. You'll be surprised how many things are connected in the world that you would not think they are.

Right. You know, I loved what what you know, what is what's going on in my mind right now. I am like because 10 years I've spent my agency, 80% of our clients has been hospitality clients. We work with Four Seasons, we work with Marriott, we work with everyone. Now I'm going to try what you said, I'm going to write, let me

know, let me know how it goes.

100% I am going to write to the CEO of Sheraton Hotels because I also have a case study and history of doing this for many years. And I'm going to tell, I'm going to find a case study 3 days, 5 days what we've done for people. And I'm going to send in a video email because I love sending video emails. I always say take 60 seconds to see what I have to talk to you about. I'm going to do that thanks to that amazing brilliant idea that you gave me.

Can I give you another idea?

Please do.

Because I was reading book of people who work at hotel or the juicy story people have and hotel a lot of their marketing tend to be bland. Now imagine your friend with a concierge, you're having coffee, you're not doing marketing and like, oh, tell me a story from the last 10 years that you didn't forget that you would always remember that would be an amazing post on social media, on email, on ads. Try to put that as an ad and then show it to the other people. Hey, see what we've done for the other hotel. Because if you say book now 10% people don't care if you tell the story of actually it's a true story that happened in Bali. Somebody brought milk from the US to Bali. 10 hour flight. You know what would happen? It's going to go bad. And then they're like, oh my God, my kid cannot drink normal milk. What they did, they couldn't find this milk in Bali because in Asia, people a lot are lactose intolerant. The chef remembered in Singapore they sold it, called his grandmother and said, go to the supermarket, buy it and take the first flight to Bali. You see, this is a story you want to read. You see, but to say we are in the city center, that interesting, it's not juicy.

I have lots of ideas and you've given me homework. I love it when after an interview I have homework for myself and for the audience members working. I know all of you people have learned a lot on how to target people. Most importantly, what not to do when targeting people. Because you're targeting not commodities, you're targeting human beings with real needs and busy lives. So you show them what they want to show them that you value what they want. Interview other people who are already your clients. Number two, I love what you said about the Intercontinental Ritz Carlton example. All of the big you could be any business in any field. You have people coming to your website who are already showing intent to buy. Remarket them with a message. It's almost like calling somebody saying, you visited my store yesterday. Can I talk to you? Rather than going for new clients. Third, I love the approach of saying, right, what you said, you know, you reached out to the marketing podcast and you said, you know, you interviewed somebody else and this is what you have done. So the person immediately connected with you. So make your conversational conversations first. Listen and then make it different. And making it different requires you not to be lazy. And the challenge I have taken here in front of everybody who will be watching this when we post this live, that I am going to reach out to the CEO of Sheraton Hotels and I'm going to tell them that I want to work with you and I have something to share with you. And I'm going to go back to the office, find the case study of how we've helped similar hotels, add a few extra room nights or do whatever we did during the pandemic time, make it into a blog post or a video, work with them first, get them as a client, work with them, then put a case study. And then under the case study, I'm going to say this happened thanks to Sara, who helped us with the amazing idea.

Okay, I'm looking forward to read the case study 100%.

It's going to take a little bit, a little bit of time, but I can promise you I'm going to get working on it asap. Sarah, this has been fantastic. I've had so much fun. It was almost like, you know, I had one of the world's top experts just to myself for one hour. I can just imagine how much value, you know, you bring to your clients. All of you, all the people who are watching here. Somebody wants to hire you, somebody wants to talk to you, somebody wants to interview you or, you know, or get to know you more in the commercial world or whatever capacity. What's the best way for them to reach you?

I put my website on the slides so they could visit it and just send a message, even if just to say hello, I enjoyed it. Or they could just find on LinkedIn, if they type Sara Sal on LinkedIn, they should be able to find me. So that's.

That was fantastic. I thoroughly enjoyed it. We send you an update email when this goes live and it'll be awesome to stay connected. So, Sarah, we said ABHI Arya, father of two girls, six dogs, husband to a superwoman, streetcar racer, turn hotelier, now social media marketer and founder of Internet Moguls, where we help entrepreneurs use videos for their digital marketing strategy. If there is anything that we or my audience, we have about 200,000 people in our email subscriber list that we built with a lot of hard work. Corona happened and the agency business went down. I went back home and we did a webinar and after that, we did 75 webinars in 75 days. So in 70, average 700 people, maximum 3200 people. I built in 75 days nonstop. I built a rapport with customers on lots of ground because this was the time to build rapport with them. And they're all amazing human beings from different parts of Asia. So if at any given time you have a podcast, you have a book or anything that you feel you want to get your message out to people, we'd be happy to call you for a live webinar. Anywhere from 2 to 500 people come and see us. Awesome. We set that up. We would love to get your message out to more and more people around the world.

Okay. We'd be very happy. Okay.

Thank you, Sarah. All the best.

You're welcome. Thank you. Bye.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it's my and my team's endeavor, my teams and I my endeavor to be able to reach out to the busiest, but the best marketers in the world and the best entrepreneurs, best moms, best dads, best human beings. And tell them, hey, I'm building a community. Can we borrow 60 minutes like I told you, My dad always says the most expensive thing you can ask for people and not their money, but their time. So I'm asking for the most expensive commodity. So I'm sending micro videos to many of these people and I'm making it creative. And I'm saying, hey, I love this blog post of yours. I love the picture of you with your cat. Hey, I also am planning to turn vegan and I love what you said about, you know, being vegetarian or being vegan or whatever. You make it interactive, you give them some value and then you say, this is what we would love to. We would love to showcase your beautiful story and your hard work to the people in our database and do all of that fix an appointment. It takes six months ahead. Planning at least sometimes to be able to get these people on the show. They're amazing human beings like Sarah, who take out their time, come on time, that's till the end. And give value to the answer of every question which was asked. She's given me a lot of homework, she's given me a lot of challenges, and she's completely changed my mind on what not to do when you target a customer. I hope you too learn something amazing from this live interview. And the one thing that you need to do if you want to be part of the contest winners, which we announced every Sunday, please go to the link the comment over here and tell us what are the two things that you learned from Sara today? The two things that you learned from Sara. One person from the end of every interview is going to get a special gift from us. It could be booked from Gary Vee, Russell Brunson, Paulo Coelho, any of these awesome people, or Micro Video Mastery Championship book from Abalia as well. So, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, I'm signing off on a high note. And I wish all of you lots of lots and lots of happiness and lots and lots and lots of family time. Enjoy yourself.