How to Run Google Ads for Personal Injury Lawyers w/ KLee Terrazas

All right, we're live. Okay. I have Kaylee who is a part of the PPC co pilot community. I've had some great conversations with her in that community. And Kaylee runs an agency called Legal Lead Shark and she specializes in helping mainly personal injury lawyers. And through my conversations with her, I, um, she is running, you know, exactly what I recommend to people. I get a lot of questions like, hey, how do they're freelancers or maybe they, it's like a two, two person operation and they ask how to scale because I, you know, they've heard that I've scaled two seven figure agencies and then they ask, you know, what should I, what, what should I do? Kaylee's doing exactly what I recommend, which is usually specializing in a niche which, you know, if you look at grow my ads, we don't technically do, but this is what I wish I would have done in the beginning, specializing in a niche or an industry and going above and beyond just media buying. So Kaylee has been able to do that with personal injury lawyers and she's run then significant amounts of, you know, ad spend and campaigns. So I wanted to talk to her about like, you know, this is a very hard industry. It's one that I'm very cautious about taking here at grow my ads. And, and it's like, okay, how do you run ads today, currently in 2025 for you know, these personal injury lawyers? How do you do that successfully? So Kaylee, thank, thank you for talking to me again. I know this is our second or third round now of having some conversations.

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to be here.

So just a quick intro because this will actually, you know, this will be on YouTube, not just the group, so the group's probably familiar with you now. And this will be a wider audience. But just a quick intro of who you are, your agency, and quick background.

Yeah, absolutely. So I have, I've been in digital marketing for about eight years now. Started in sales most of my career, did B2B sales and then kind of bridged into marketing and then was, I guess, jack of all trades and marketing. Learned a little bit of this, a little bit of that, and then really landed on law firms in general. But personal injury law is kind of our bread and butter just out of several things in our background and I can get deeper into that. But yeah, basically we built a foundation where we turn clicks into signed cases and the intricacies that go into the Google Ads, all the way to getting the signed case. There's a bottleneck in between and we just figured it out. And because we had experience in this niche, we just decided to go all in, just with law firms because we know it's, it's a tricky one to convert. Not just in that it's expensive for Google Ads, but it's also not as easy as, you know, running an ad. Someone picks up the phone, calls them, and then they're just signed up. Right. There's a lot that goes into getting an actual qualified lead to turn into a signed case. So that's where we wanted to niche down because we knew we could go further.

Right. And this is, you know, kind. I know I'm talking about agency stuff again, but what you do is what I recommend a lot of agencies start doing, which is, you know, become more than just a, hey, we'll run ads for you, Mr. Lawyer. But we'll, I mean, you're like, no, we're going to go, we're like, we're behind the scenes. So it's not just. We're gonna, you know, create the ad copy and get you clicks and then track a, you know, a phone call or a form fill. You're actually going above and beyond on the back end for them and qualifying in the leads. Correct?

Right. So we built, I kind of, I refer to as like a fractional CMO slash lead conversion strategist because we, we took it deeper to where we, we knew the bottleneck. One of the biggest bottlenecks in legal in general is intake. And so I think that's a big bottleneck for everyone. If someone's running home service ads, you know, the person's not getting to the phone. And we all know the game is speed to lead, but you have to take that like a step further. With any of these legal niches, whether it's criminal law, personal injury, there's a lot of qualifications that go into the people that they can and can't serve. And the call centers are typically one of the biggest issues that we see. We could be driving a ton of, of leads, but there is a finesse that goes into closing those leads beyond just like, you know, spend a lot of money, cast a wide net, and then look for the needle on the haystack, if you will.

And you, so you actually, you're not, when you talk about closing the leads, it's more like, hey, this one is qualified, ready to go to. Then the client, the lawyer.

Right, right. It's ready to sign. They're ready to sign the retainer with the lawyer and get started. Yeah.

Okay. Wow. Yeah. And like in, in most cases, A traditional advertising agency or PPC agency, they, they're just going to be tracking hey calls and forms. What happens behind the scenes is sort of up to then the, the client themselves.

Right.

Is that mainly what you're seeing when you are working or are getting these clients?

Absolutely. And the, the other problem like when we're talking to law firms, the I feel like the biggest problem we see is that and it's, and it's across the board. Like it's not like a one off. If basically if I talk to a law firm and they don't tell me this, I'm actually shocked because typically what's happening is whether they're spending 30k a month or 100k a month on ads, they have no idea what's happening. They're getting a report at the end of the month that they don't know how to read. They're, I'll ask them like what are your conversion ratios? You know, how many signed cases did you get? What, what are your numbers? What are your metrics? And they're like well I feel like, and I was like I'm already yeah. Right off the bat I'm like okay. They have no idea, they have no idea what's working and what's not working. They're just throwing money, you know, and hoping that something comes back.

Right. And this is like, this is excellent because you know I was just talking to a company that does they work with actually like auto repair businesses that's like what they specialize in but they tie, they actually tie revenue generated from the ads that they're, that they're running for, for these auto repair companies and they, they get back end access and then, then they cross reference like numbers and names and things to what they've been able to generate on their end. So bridging the gap between what you're getting on the in app metrics of what whether it's Google or Meta and then how much revenue is that truly producing on the back end for E commerce it's a lot easier. So like if anyone who's been on my channel has probably seen me break down like, like the E commerce metrics that I look at with e commerce companies and a lot of it's like bypassing Google's metrics and I'm literally looking at new customer orders, new customer AOV and then what are you getting LTV off of customers? Are you getting LTV bumps? So it's this back end business insight that influences the front end strategies for many of our clients. But going to something like a lawyer because you know we would here at grow my ads, we wouldn't be able to offer what you offer. I don't know how to qualify a lead for, for a lawyer. I'm not specialized in that. Right. Where, where you are, this is, this is where the value that you can bring to you know, a lawyer or personal injury lawyer to be specific, you beat out the rest of the market and you've become the specialized growth partner to them by having this skill set to be able to do. And it's like a no brainer then for if I, if I were a personal injury lawyer to like judge against, I'll even use my own agency, grow my ads. Who won't have that as a value add and you who has it as a value add, it makes more sense to go with someone who's going to actually help qualify the leads and bring me done deals to the table. Now with that said, you've worked with a lot of them. You've with personal injury lawyers, you've probably audited a lot of these accounts. Um, this topic of the video is more about like how you know how, how should you be running ads for personal injury lawyers? What are you seeing working? What do you see not working today? So let me start with, and this is a big question that I get a lot for for lawyers specifically personal injury. What budget do you recommend if a personal injury lawyer wants to start running specifically Google Ads? What budget based bare minimum would you recommend for the industry?

Yeah, that's a great question. And, and to piggyback off that before I answer that, the, the benefit of niching is I can see I can go so deep down the rabbit hole. Like I've read books from attorneys on how to scale their law firm. I'm never going to have a law firm that needs to be scaled. But what I get is the insight to their pain, right? So then I can continue to offer more value than someone else could because I've, I've gone down the rabbit hole so much. And so one of the things we do right out of the gate besides just budget allocation and knowing that they have enough budget to compete is I want to know where is your budget? Right? Are you doing things that I call it blockbuster style, like marketing? Like are you doing things that used to work in the 90s because they worked in the 90s like billboards and TV and then are you spending a lot of money on Pattern Interrupt on Facebook or TikTok because they're not going to get into an accident and Go to Facebook. Like I'm just gonna, right after my accident in the hospital, I'm just gonna scroll Facebook, you know, and it's just not gonna happen. So one of the things that we do, besides making sure they have enough budget to compete on Google Ads and making sure they have enough to compete for a long enough period of time, we don't lock them into any long term tricky contracts. But we require our clients to have at least four months minimum to start with us, whether we're taking over an existing account or we're building a new one. Because having enough budget is just one part of it. But if you don't have enough budget to get enough data or if your account has the wrong data and you're having to reset things so essentially start over. It's an expensive game. In personal injury, for example, I would say I don't work with any personal injury law firms unless they have 30k a month for ad spend. That doesn't include the call center intake expenses and it doesn't include my fee. That's just for ad spend. And if they, if they can't do that, I'm like, you guys need to do organic as much as you can and save for a four month period because we can get this profitable fast. One case for a personal injury law firm, if you, if you took the industry average is a, anywhere from on the low end, very conservative, 10k. On the high end, it's usually around 50k per like averaging if they took all of their clients from the previous year. So it's pretty quick. Roas like to make sure that you, you, you get your return on investment. But that shocks a lot of the smaller firms. And what I tell them, and this is a great, you know, idea for your, your audience too, is if you don't have that budget yet because you're small, maybe you're like a solo practitioner and or you're just coming out from under a bigger firm. Go in with other personal injury lawyers or other people around you. I know a medical group that goes in on ad budget because they do pain management. So chiropractors, pain management clinics, things like that that are going to piggyback off of. It's a win win for everybody.

Interesting.

Yeah, go into a group with other people because you can't compete with less than 30k. A big, in a bigger city. Now if you're talking a small, I would even consider like Oklahoma City for example. That's where I'm at. I would consider that a pretty small city. So maybe we could go in with 20k. I would, I would test it and let them know, like odds are we're going to have to up this because even here we've got personal injury law firms for like the Oklahoma City Thunder. They're, they're on the news helicopter. Like you're, you're playing with big people even in small markets. So it's.

Sure, yeah, there's some national, I know there's like some national behemoths that are pretty much covered, covering the entire United States too, that you have to bump up against. But this is, this goes into. And so I agree with you. And here at Grow my ads, we set, we set ours like 20k a month. Like if they're not spending 20k a month, don't, like, just don't even talk to them. But I may bump that to 30. I may just refer these business to you in the future because I, I can't provide the level of value you do in regards to, you know, helping them qualify the leads on the back end here. If anyone has seen any of my content on this YouTube channel, you'll hear me state many times, A, setting a realistic expectation and B, setting a realistic budget. And so when a personal injury lawyer contacts us and we tell them this and they're like, what do you, why would I need that much? Okay, well, let's, we need enough data, number one. Right. So if you don't have the data already, we need to get the data. Well, how do we get the data? You need enough volume to get the data. And in regards to a personal injury lawyer, CPCS are, you're in one of the most expensive industries, so you're literally paying one to $300 per click. Correct me if I'm wrong there, Kaylee. Obviously you see more than I do.

So that's pretty spot on. Yeah.

So you need, according to what I recommend, 10 clicks per day, bare minimum, just to get enough volume to kind of get going to see if you can get some heat. And I'm not saying that means you're going to start making money from that. That's just having enough bare minimum data to enter the market. So do the math. If you're a personal injury lawyer and Your CPCs are 1 to $300, and I'm saying you need 10 clicks a day, it adds up very quickly. And many I have seen probably some smaller, like law firms that try to dabble in it and they'll put like three grand, five and it is you, you might as well light your money on fire. Because it, you're, you're not going to get enough. And that's exactly what happens. They, they, they come to us then and like we, we didn't get much. I'm like, yeah, and you got like, you know, 20 clicks to work with now. Like this is nothing. We can't do anything with this. And with Google today, you need conversion volume. Well, to get conversion volume you need high quality click volume. And to get the high quality click volume, you got to pay the price for those clicks and have correct structure set up. And then, and this is something that, you know, we were working on with one of your accounts is take, you have to have high quality conversion data long term. So everything that I just discussed there, it's a pretty long investment of time, especially when you're in a very expensive industry like personal injury. So with that, like, hey, you got, you're going to have to have a high quality, you know, or high enough budget. What are you seeing? Do you, I guess, do you take on brand new ones or are you predominantly working like you must be an existing advertiser.

I've taken on new ones and they've actually done great. But they were referred to me from someone else. Like I knew where they were coming from and they, I knew they had the budget. They had, are, they had a year, years. They have a year plus worth of budget. They understood the risks. Right. Like I, I don't want to position this as your gambling, but it's going to take time whether you're like settlements, for example. I was just reading, I follow a lot of lawyers on LinkedIn. Right. I was reading Mike Morris. He's one of the top personal injury lawyers in Detroit. Over $1.5 billion in settlements in the last 20 years. Like this guy's a behemoth. Like he's a local legend there or whatever. Right. I'm reading his book Fireproof because I, I'm like introing to interview him. I reached out to him, he's like, sure, let's do it. I was like, really? Yeah. Really not trying to get your business. You've already, he has an amazing setup. Right. I really genuinely just want to help other people with the full scope of marketing. Right. My law firms, there's much more that goes into building and scaling than just Google Ads.

Sure.

But yeah. So you, besides having the right budget, the, the other part of the game, because it is expensive, is like you have to be extremely careful using broad match keywords. It will burn like we have seen literally two clicks for. How do I sue my vet. And then we didn't catch it quick enough. And then it was. How do I. Another phrasing of that. So over $700 spent on trying someone trying to sue their vet for something like. Right. So if you're not doing search term audits, your account's gonna burn money. If you're, if you're using Broad Match and you're not really on your negative keyword game, your money, you're literally burning money. So it, it's an extremely expensive game for them, but it is like gambling at first. Like you have to, it's like I, if you keep feeding the same slot machine over and over, you're probably gonna hit eventually, right? Eventually that slot machine, you're gonna hit the, whatever kind of fixed quota they have in the background and you're going to hit something. I mean, that's a really good analogy to Google Ads. Like eventually, yes, it's going to pay off, but. Oh, Mike Morris, what I was going to say is he, he's in his third year for a settlement on a trucking company. Now this is going to be like somewhere in the 20 millions in the settlement. So, yeah, they're going after them hard. That was a big trucking company. They knew the guy had eyesight problems, et cetera, et cetera. Killed somebody. Young dad, horrible story. Three years though. So he has to front the money for not only his ads and marketing, but for his entire team to be working on cases for three years. And then if they lose that case, they've lost all the money. So that again, as a Google Ads agency, when you're, when you're prospecting these guys, you have to realize that yes, they make a lot of money, but they could go a year but before seeing a settlement payout and they get tight where they're, they're thinking, oh crap, like, I hope I don't have to fire somebody. You know, so it's kind of feast or famine. And that's why we, we put such a big emphasis on tracking the conversions for them and making sure they know their numbers. So that when budget cuts come or when they're like tightening up because they're, they haven't gotten their settlement payouts yet, they look back at us and say, wait a minute, we're not, it's kind of like a company, you don't cut your salespeople. Like, that's where your money's coming from. Right. So I, I want to be in the forefront of always reminding them, like, I'm where your money's coming from. So even if it gets tight, I'm the last place you should look to make the cut. And you can't do that if you're just looking at the Google Ads numbers and then just sending them a report and you have no idea what's happening after the click.

Basically yeah. What so and then you can correct me if, if I'm incorrect on this but what I've when I've had or conversations for like strategy sessions for personal injury or even other law firms, especially if let's say they're starting out or they're, they're newer, they've got data but it's very what I would call weak conversions that they're going after. So that's like a 30 second phone call, a form fill that's like two you know, what's your name and phone number and email or something like that. So these are weak conversions will be hard to scale but at least you're starting somewhere so we can kind of see where things are coming in from. Right. What I normally will tell them and again this will depend on where a firm is at with their ad account. So this could be different from someone who's been running ads for five years and has, you know, spends 100k a month versus someone who's spending 20k a month in their third month. But I usually am like hey, it's going to be expensive but you want to start laser targeted at first with like exact and maybe some phrase match in there. I'm okay in the beginning having weak conversions. I wouldn't start with a 30 second phone call but like 60 seconds or two minutes or something and then also a form fill. But we make sure that, that, that we're going to weed out any potential spam. You're still going to get some spammy stuff but make sure recaptcha set up things like that and if you can add in some additional like qualifier layers to the form fill. So like here at Grow my Ads by the way I have a full video on the YouTube channel. I'll potentially have a link to it in this description I have, I have a video called How I only get high quality leads and I literally give everyone the funnel that I've built with for Grow my Ads for the agency and you'll my form fill is not just name and email and phone number. It's like do you run Google Ads currently? How much are you currently spending? So I'm asking qualifiers throughout the form fill process. Now the reason I'm okay in the beginning Having some of those what I would call easier or weak conversions is because I'm at least starting to get volume of conversion data. So at least I, I'm going to know what terms are working for us, what you know, what keywords, etc. And then even the search terms, oh, we should be adding these as, you know, keywords, if we don't have them, etc. Then as I get that volume dialed in I can start moving further into like smart bidding. So at this case I'm probably using manual cpc, maybe max clicks until I get some volume. Now for law firms sometimes you can't get like if you listen to my trainings I always say you need 30 plus conversions in 30 days before you flick over to smart bidding law firm. Sometimes that's really hard. So if I get a handful five to ten, I will actually test a max conversion bid strategy. As long as I'm not using Broad match yet, I'll test that for like a few days to a week. You're going to know if it's going to work or not because like if it doesn't work, the campaign just will kind of suffocate out. But I will jump the gun to move to conversion based bid strategies right away. Not like a traffic base or click base with manual CPC or max clicks. Then if that works for me then I start as. Because I don't want to kill volume yet of these conversions. What I'm doing is trying to just train my account, trying to train the algorithm and machine learning to what I, I want to mold it to eventually for long term success. That long term success then will be eventually. Hey, we need to start only sending high quality conversion data. Now that we've got volume of some of this weaker stuff, let's start slowly refining the quality we get from it. So that could mean you know what you're doing Kaylee on the back end. Hey, only now send if we're, if you get enough like so if you're only getting one qualified lead a month, probably can't move to this yet. But if you start to get enough volume you want to start pushing from the back end. This is a qualified lead, right? So now you're feeding Google, you're feeding the machine learning qualified data for it to learn off of. It's like a B2B SaaS company. B2B SaaS sometimes has long sales cycles, high, high value for many of them. But long sales cycles and usually you have to start just like a law firm would in regards to okay form fills that are weak, maybe phone calls that are weak, but at least you're getting something good from it. You get the volume and then you start refining the quality. And then as you're tracking that, a lot of them are going to be using like a HubSpot or some sort of backend CRM system. Hey, we've got marketing qualified lead data, we've got sales qualified lead data. Now we have closed leads. Let's start moving that data into the ad account and then start eventually optimizing off of that. And, and so Kaylee, is that kind of how if you were looking at someone who is starting fresh to, to, you know, a year out time frame, six months out time frame, is that kind of the path that you've seen that's working?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and, and I know like it's crazy how many accounts I audit that one, they're not allocated properly. Right. So whether it's like you. A lot of, a lot. I don't know if this is lazy or not trained. I'm not really sure as far as Google Ad agencies or, or Google Ad managers go. But for example like targeting, you've got to set zip codes up separately so you know which zip codes. Like for example, we've got a client in DFW that one of the zip codes was costing us a ton of money and we're like they're not converting. Right. But we wouldn't have been able to see that if we just put the radius to X amount of miles. So that's kind of the first tip, right? Especially if you're starting with a brand new account and I go back in to all the accounts I take over and I redo all of these because I have yet to come into one account that I would deem like they did this, right? They did that, right. I have a whole checklist of like go rent, go redo the locations to zip codes. Right. And then the second thing that I do is I look at the schedules. You can separate schedules from 6am to 12, from, and then from 12 to 6 and then from 6 to 8. Let's say because your ad sketch, the.

Ad schedule at the campaign level.

Right, the ad schedule. And so we were able to see that Sundays were extremely expensive and not converting. So we turned off Sundays. Right. But you can't see that, you can't see any of that data if you don't set up the account right out of the gate properly. And then the other thing I would. So I go into really like account setup and I've watched A ton of your videos. And you go through all of this. Like, you, you have everything that anyone would need on how to do this properly. I would go into either copilot or the PPC free group in school and take the course because you have every video, like, outlined in order. And I've gone through all of them, right. Because I'm. I'm. I'm always learning. I'm just, I'm always. I'm like, what do I know? Like, you can't see the gaps. And that's where we're valuable for law firms. They can't see the gaps when they're living in it. But from outside I can say, oh, here's all the holes in the boat that we need to go plug. Whether it's in your ADS account or it's in your intake or it's in your conversion tracking or wherever it is, we can see that. And obviously they can't. If they could see it, they would have fixed it. Right? Right. So, yeah, setting up the account properly, as far as schedules, as far as zip codes and things like that. The second thing that you have to be. You have to do this, like, it again, I don't know if it's like, people don't know better or they're late, they're being lazy or I'm not really sure why. Why I see so much of this, but if we're taking over an account, we'll see. All. Everything's just all in one campaign. And I'm like, what? Different cities in the same state, all in one campaign. Different areas of practice, whether it's English or Spanish ads, all in one campaign. And I'm like, what are you. You can't even. You're like, what? I can't even tell what's working and what's not working. It's just a big jumbled mess. Everything's together. So, like, really segmenting your campaigns for, like, if you have a city, you put the city and then you put. If it's your English campaigns, and then everything falls under that. And so service category, so you can see is workers comp. Working is slip and fall, working, motor vehicle accidents. That's what they all want. That's the quickest and easiest for them to convert. Big, big money, commercial motor vehicles, stuff like that. But the other thing I would piggyback if, like, as a tip for anyone going after law firms, right, or trying to help law firms with really small budgets is workers comp. It's hard for them to make a lot of money, but it can feed them while they're small, if that makes sense. So, for example, these smaller law firms, what will happen a lot of times if they don't have adspend budget. What they'll do is they'll go to a bigger law firm that's getting, I mean, God, so many leads they can't even keep up with. They've identified. And Mike Morris says this in his book Bulletproof. They identify where 20% of their money's coming from. And the 80% of the leads were whether they're qualified or not. Right. So the leads that are signed cases, but they're not making them a ton of money and they're costing them a lot of time, they will. They will basically hand those off to a smaller law firm that they've deemed a good law firm. Right. Because their reputation still on the line. And then they. That small law firm turns around and pays a referral fee back to the big law firm.

Right.

Does that make sense? So Mike. Mike and his setup. His first two or three years, he didn't have money for ads. So what he did is he went to the big guy that was in the market and personal injury in Detroit, and he took all the cases that guy didn't want slip and fall, workers comp. Like all the small cases. And he worked the heck out of them and made millions even doing that. One year, he sent $3 million back to that guy's law firm in referral fees. So he kept his money, and whatever percentage was agreed upon, he sent back. So now he has a foundation to market himself. But he did that by taking all the undesirable leads that the big law firm, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Morgans and Morgans, the, the Texas Hammer, Jim Adler, whatever they're spending, some of them are spending like $3 million a month in one state. Yeah, they're getting a ton of leads, and then they'll deem 80% of them, like, you know, they'll hand them off. Well, if you don't have an appropriate budget for appropriate amount of time, that's where I recommend they go first. Like, I know that loses me the sale, but the thing is, like, if you don't have enough money to compete for four months, I don't want to waste your money like you. You would be better spent to go do some little marketing for yourself. Right? Run some little social media things, you know, try to bootstrap it basically with the money you do have. Take the cases that the big firms don't want and have already paid for until you can save up enough money to have a real budget. Yeah. However, in that, in that was a really long answer. But what I would do if they had a really tight budget is I would go for the low hanging fruit. Start with workers comp. It's not going to pay them a ton. They're not going to get the payout settlements they would see in a motor vehicle accident. But it'll cover their roas. And then they can start competing in budgets, you know, up their budget and compete against the bigger bids.

Yeah, I like that. It's not something I didn't even know that. So going after less competitive basically terms for Google Ads, right. Cases for these firms that the bigger big spenders may not care about as much so they, they're not as focused there. So I like that because you're going after low hanging fruit in that case and building yourself up. We talked about, so we've talked about account structure a little bit. We've talked about you know, going from beginning like hey, start with some exact and phrase and none of this is very super unique to private or personal injury. A lot of this is what I would recommend to just about any legion sort of industry. You know, starting from exact and phrase and getting the volume of conversions and then you want to start fine tuning to high quality conversions which is what you do an excellent job at. Which is probably what 90% of you know, the firms that I've, our team here has audited, what we find is like a lot of them aren't doing that. So you ask them, hey, how are these leads, you know, for you guys on the back end? How many are you closing? What's the, the, the rate of close? What's the, you know, value to them when you're closing them? They don't really know. So they're just like well we're just, yeah, I guess, I don't know, we're just spending money and we're getting leads and they show a generic sort of Google Ads report that they might be getting from their current agency or freelancer, whomever. So you know, with what you're doing on the back end of qualifying and knowing what the value is and pushing that back in is excellent. And we with one of the accounts that you took over, you, you worked with one, what I would call had a bit of poison data. And by that I mean this account had easy, easy conversion actions to it. So these would be and I don't, I don't remember the specifics but these would be the 32nd phone calls being tracked as conversion. The other day I, I was talking to a company, Big Big Spenders, and they were tracking like 10 second phone calls. I'm like, guys, you know you can't scale this. You don't want to scale 10 second phone calls. And they're like, are you try, do you have call reporting on any of this? No, we don't. Okay, well let's figure out what these calls are currently doing, let's figure out what's qualified for you, and let's move there. So that's, that's not even an in app thing I'm doing for them. I'm not changing the structure or anything yet. I'm just working with them on making sure they have high quality lead coming in first and how do we get more of that? So it's kind of architecting the back end first and then, and then that influences what we're going to do on the front end. Which would be the Google Ads account. Now you have this account, it's poison. It's got all these like, you know, yes, it looks good. If you looked at the account, you're like, wow, the CPAs for this law firm is crazy low compared to the benchmark average. It's crazy low because it's all junk. And so that is what I call poison. The smart bidding. Then Google's machine learning that has learned off of crap. And if you give it crap, it's just going to give you crap. And that's exactly what was happening in this case you over some time and I think I even was cautioned you a little bit through this. But you over time were able to fix this because I'm like, hey, you're going to have to go to the client, let them know they're about to see the vanity metrics that you see Google in app is it's going to go down, right? And you were able because you're already doing the good stuff for them. You're already qualifying these calls and leads and have that data. You were starting to push this back into the ad account and start pivoting then the structure towards counting towards more of this quality stuff and counting less of the weak stuff. So explain a bit of that process if you want and how that actually. Because there was a scary moment in time there for you. But as you know, we talked today, I think things have really worked out for it.

Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, that was an interesting story and yes, scary. So I leaned on you a lot because I'm like, tell me I'm doing The right thing, like I don't want to do it, but yeah. So this client they had been with, they had been running Google Ads since September of 2024. But it was the typical setup, broad match, getting a ton of calls. Like I, we're talking 500 to 1200 calls a month, right? Very expensive for the intake. Most 90% or more of them were wrong numbers calling for other firms calling for an insurance quote on their auto insurance, not a claim etc, so just crap, you know, a lot of crap. And they were still doing okay. They weren't losing money, but they were starting to get really irritated at the amount of volume of crap leads that they were getting. So in January we did almost a hard reset. This was a slow process. Like we weaned the money out of one area and into the other. But yeah, we did, we tightened it completely up. We separated everything out, we made sure that the budget was allocated where it was going to win. And then their call volume from in January dropped down to 500 and they were a little like, you know, and they still had four signed cases which again if those on average are 50k, we're still fine, right? So even if it was 10k on a couple, 50k on one, they're still fine, they're still roas positive. And then in March it's almost an anomaly because they that because they were getting such great results but such low call volume that they were scared like oh my God, we're still spending this much money. And our call volumes dropped to like 150 calls in one month. So they're thinking like what is happening? And at the end of the month when we, we have end of week meetings, end of month meetings, they ended up with from January to March, let's just use that time frame. In January they had 550 calls. I think of those calls just off the top of my head, let's say 15 were qualified. So right. State they weren't at fault, they were seeking medical, they did want to sign with the law firm, et cetera. And they were qualified to be a conversion didn't, not necessarily assigned case, they were just qualified. And then of those four signed in January and then fast forward to March, we had 155 calls, 20 of them were qualified and 10 signed cases in March, which if I could, like I told you that's a unicorn moment. If I could copy and paste that, I would be a, you know, multi millionaire right now because every law firm in the nation would hire me. But that's the power of Knowing the entire ecosystem. Right. So if you only can see the Google Ad side and I would say for any business, the reason you're probably so successful with E commerce is because you can see the entire ecosystem. It's easy to track. With sales, it's hard to track. And every lawyer I talk to if I drill down on numbers, they have no idea what's happening. I feel this about that. Right. It's all vague. Which tells me they're not tracking. If someone said we had 150 calls and 10 signed cases, that's a firm that's tracking. They know their numbers. So that's one thing that is definitely an asset. But yeah, that's it was a 400% increase in qualified leads and then 70% cut in call volume and then of course their caseload went from 4 to 10. So.

Right. And so you see in the ad account you're like someone who would log in like, oh my, what is going on these, the look at the call volume. It's, it's decimated like this. They've killed the account. No, wrong. You. Who cares about call volume if it's all crap calls? So what we care about is making money and getting signed qualified cases. Right. Which is what you were working on. And so you know, that is what a business owner should care about. That is what a law firm should care about. It's not in app metrics as much, it's just what that in app metric is. Now the account has got qualified data flowing into it because of what you're doing. This allows you now the opportunity to start scaling because you can't scale if you have crap like conversion actions. Which is what I find a lot of companies like every time we try to spend more now we don't get any more qualified. It's like yeah, because everything has been polluted towards this junky stuff that you've let the machine learning train off of. And so it's unfortunate you've got to work backwards for a little bit of time in order to move forward with that quality stuff is what happened in this case. But now you're off to the path where you could scale because you're working with quality data now we've talked about the accounts and all in the conversions and all of that. Are there any things that you have found? Because this is something I actually don't know. Have you found certain offers or anything with landing pages that have done better than others for, for specific to personal injury lawyers?

It's hard because like how creative can you get? When you get 30 characters, right, it makes it really hard. But I do a lot of. I try to do a lot of pre qualification questions in the ad. So injured question mark. You know, so basically we're saying, not that you were just in an accident, you have to be injured in the accident. And then. Right. Somewhere in the descriptions I always put not your fault. So again, that's another qualifier. So I'm trying to softly qualify them in the ad copy. And the same thing with the landing page. I'm trying to target them with verbiage that says, if you were injured and it wasn't your fault, we can help you. Basically.

What do those people. I thankfully have never been in a, an accident where I needed an. I have been in an accident, but thankfully I was not injured and didn't, you know, need a lawyer. What do those people care about? Is it. Is it speed? Is it. I need, you know, I need this lawyer now, and I want to get this case over as quickly as possible. Is it the, you know, because most of them, I think, do, you know, don't pay unless. Unless you win or something, right? Yeah. So, like, what, what do they actually care about in. In regards to that and what, you know, because I, I've worked with some firms before. Well, Luke, who, who, you know, my business partner here, I grow my eyes. He's like a genius when it comes to offer creation and funnels and things like that. And, you know, I can't tell you how many times because we've worked with law firms who worked in specific cases could be like, you know, cancer caused from, you know, for firefighters and things like that or, or whatever. So they were involved in these very specific cases. But then you, like, look at their, the pages that they're sending traffic to, and it's just like unbelievably generic. So then it's like, hey, I've got a tab open on my browser of every one of your competitors, and let's look at your page compared to them, them, them, them, them. Nothing's unique there. So what offer do you have? What. What do these people want? What makes sense? And, and a lot of times, you know, for businesses, it's. It's speed, it's price, it's ease, convenience. And so with personal injury lawyers, is there anything like that that you have seen? Like, hey, you must talk about this on your landing page. Or if you guys offer this, this is excellent, and this will help convert higher.

Right? Great. That's a great question. So I would say, okay, if you, if you Ask Chat, GPT or Google. Like how many people from Google Ads will call from the ad versus click through to the landing page and generically Speaking they'll say 70 to 80% will call from the ads. So your ad copy is the most important thing. And having things like were you injured, was it your fault? And free, right, free consultation, 24 hour free case evaluation and you don't pay unless we win. Max settlement. That's what they care about, max settlement. How much is it going to cost me? And then also this is so. This is shocking to me. Honestly. I have seen more times than I could tell you that personal injury lawyers are running ads, spending a ton of money and they have no after hours call center. So they're running ads at night. People will call, they're not going to leave a voicemail, they're not going to leave a message. They're going to the next person. So having a 24 hour intake team is really vital. Little small plug. I've been working on this Austin for like probably a year because intake is the bottleneck for most law firms, whether it's criminal, personal injury, especially personal injury. Because there are so many qualifiers that they need to tick the box for before you can even send them to a lawyer and hope that they will sign up with the lawyer. Right? Because lawyers have, they have a lot of hurdles to jump over. And unless you know that, it makes it really hard to market for them. Because like one of the, the hurdles, for example. I'll give you a quick backstory. My dad, years ago, blue collar guy, he's a welder in Texas. I grew up in Texas. He's like just your traditional Texas guy, right? Hard worker, doesn't ask anyone for anything. He was in his welding truck and he was on his way home from work in Midland, which is funny if you've seen Landman, it's a really good show by the way. If you haven't seen it, I haven't seen it, no. Yeah, you gotta go watch it. And they hype. They like over dramatize. Texans are not all like that. Okay. We're not all like hillbillies or whatever, but it's pretty cute. So he was on his way home. Midland has a ton of big rigs. Whether it's welders or whatever, they're they're hauling in pipe. It's a big oil, oil town. So he was hit so hard and the back of his truck is solid metal. He was hit so hard by another commercial vehicle that it totaled his truck and his welding machine. And he had vertigo for like six months. He refused to call a lawyer because he, he in his mind. And this is, this is what you're overcoming even in the intake team. Right? So once we have the ad and they can actually, they actually, we prompt them and they click. Now they get to the intake center and if they meet all the qualifiers, they, this is typically the elephant in the room that the intake's not even addressing. And then they get to the law firm and change their mind. And then the law firm's like, pissed. Right?

Yeah.

But basically like my dad. And in long story short, like his mentality of personal injury lawyers is what probably most people, ambulance chasers or sharks or whatever. Right. And so he tried to go at it on his own. Six months, he argued with the insurance agencies. Now, quick side note, a commercial motor vehicle accident is very lucrative for law firms because you can sue the company's insurance, not the person's insurance. So that's like every law PI firm, if they could only get commercial motor vehicle accidents, they would be, you know, bazillionaires or whatever. So he, he had submitted 100 documents to this insurance agency. He, he had been arguing with them back and forth. He had to have a signed affidavit, like notarized with how much money he made because they didn't believe that he made that much money. And they still rejected it after he had it, like, submitted. And then all of his medical bills couldn't work, didn't have his truck, etc, so he was pissed. By this time, he finally called a PI attorney and then within a week, the settlement was in for 30 more than he had asked for. He was just asking, cover my time off work, cover my truck, cover my medical bills. Right. So you're going against people's belief that if they sign up with this lawyer, that they're going after this nice person. Right. And this person's going to be desolate or whatever. And that's not the case. They're going after the insurance companies. So that's another hurdle that the intake team has to overcome and most of them don't. So you're losing a ton of leads and a false belief. So on the landing page, and I would say 90% of all of our accounts for personal injury are calling from the ad. So, yeah, the landing page isn't that important because they're not even clicking through. And then if they click through, they're not filling out the form, they're just calling us from the landing page. So of course we have the pictures of people getting hurt. But on the landing page below the hero section, we focus on answering questions. What does it mean, a case evaluation? Does that mean I'm signing up? How much is it going to cost me? So overcoming all of their concerns of talking to a lawyer and then even the hidden concern that most people don't. Aren't aware that they have, which is, well, I don't want to go after this person, this, this nice teenage boy that was just not paying attention. I don't want to ruin his life or whatever. And that's not the case. That's not how it works. So there, there's a lot of layers that go into making it successful. But the good thing is you don't have to have as many leads converted as you would have to. And so say plumbing or H vac because they're so high ticket.

Sure.

Even though it's not B2B, it's B2C. They're high ticket. The other benefit for us as agencies is I'm hoping that they never have a return visit to this law firm. And so they're in constant need of new lead flow because, you know, like, you don't remarket to them there's no, like next month you're gonna get in another accident that look fishy after a couple of those, you know, hopefully not.

A high ltv for. Yeah. For their cases. So for at least for the individuals involved. Yeah, the. So you know, everything you've done and laid out is, is, is excellent. And it's what, you know, you specializing in it. That's why I wanted to pick your brain on like, hey, how are you going about working with what I would, I would call one of the toughest industries for at least an ad standpoint in Google Ads. But it's only tough if you're not doing what you're doing. And so for the typical, like, you know, I get a agencies and freelancers asking me questions and some of them will come to me and it's unfortunate because a lot of them will like take a like a sales bro course online on how to like start their own marketing agency. And like, yeah, I'm gonna go with lawyers. And then I look at it, I'm like, why do you have a lawyer when you're only spending a thousand dollars a month? And you know, so like this, unfortunately there's just bad agencies out there or freelancers who took a course and, and they were told to go, you know, lawyers, you can make a lot of money working with lawyers. And then they have no idea what they're doing on the ad side and then they're setting the lawyers up for failure because they don't know all the right things that someone like you or myself will. And obviously you know more about PI because that's what you specialize in. So everything you're talking about like intake and all of this beyond me because I've never gone that deep with, with personal injury lawyers. So I think what you're doing is fantastic not only for yourself and your agency to be able to scale and but because you serve. What I love seeing is people agencies or you know, freelancers or whatever, growth marketers see infractional, cmo, whatever you want to call yourself. I love seeing people in the industry doing high value work for their clients because there's a lot of garbage in the agency world. Doesn't matter if it's paid ads or even probably billboards in the creative space. There's just a lot of. Because it's, it's a service based business, it's the low barrier entry, but there's just a lot. And so people get burned, businesses get burned, and I hate that. And I love people who come at it with the passion that it seems like you have. I mean, you know, you're talking to lawyers, you're reading their books, you're following it, you know everything about it. Right. And you're not a lawyer yourself. You know PI though probably as well as any PI out there. And you're serving them then at the highest level that I've seen when it comes to running ads for personal injury lawyers. So I just love, I love what you've built, I love what you're doing and you know, some. I just wanted to pick your brain and see then how do you run a Google Ads account right now? Or what are some tips in order to help be successful within this industry, which I again claim to be one of the hardest, at least that I've ever worked with. So Kayleigh, I do tremendously appreciate you being on here and being able to share that any, any sort of last words you want to share.

I do want to give a word of caution since we're talking to Google Ads agencies or Google Ads, even if you're like a solo, right, you're just an ads manager going after new business. When it comes to law firms, be very careful because if you did take one of the BRO courses and you don't know what you're doing, they're not the people that you want to piss off. Like they fight for a living. And they have an unlimited resource to come after you. You know, it costs them nothing to start litigation. It would cost you a lot of money to be represented. So be very aware. Like, it's not a starter. It is a lucrative niche. It's not a starter niche, though, if you don't know what you're doing and you're not really confident that you can deliver. Start with like a home service based business first and learn Google Ads. Like take, take Austin's courses. They're free. Like the co pilot. 100 worth it. Like, buy into the co pilot and know what you're doing first. Because these people don't. They'll be your best friend or your worst enemy, but there's no in between. So. So know what you're doing when you go.

Don't piss off lawyers.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Kaylee. Thank you. If you are a personal injury lawyer, somehow watching this video, go reach out to Kaylee, then have her team run your ads. She's the best in the business from what I've seen. And she's, if she's running it at the highest level, as you can tell if you've, if you've, you know, listened for the last hour of this video. So go reach out to her. I will have, I think you have a YouTube channel as well, right? So I'll have your YouTube channel in the description below of this video. I'll have your website and any other contact information that you have. And so go reach out to her if you're a personal injury lawyer and go speak to her and how her team can help you because she will obviously do an excellent job for you. So thank you, Kaylee.

Yeah, thank you.