Episode 09: Live with CPT Marcus Banks-Bey (ANG, Ret) on Leadership & Success

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, this podcast is for you. His mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to positively impact the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

All right everybody, welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach Bizzy, your host. And my guest today is Marcus Banks-Bey, and Marcus is an author, a leader, and a retired chaplain from the Army National Guard. Uh, good to see you, Marcus. How are you today?

Doing very well, and thank you for inviting me to your space. I really appreciate it.

Outstanding. Yeah, I'm very excited to get to talk with you for a few minutes. If you can maybe tell us about your background, how you became a chaplain and how you ended up writing this fantastic book you just wrote.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So I had— I was inspired by my father who had always wanted to be a a Coast Guard officer. He was not drafted to Vietnam because he was the only son of his parents. But what he chose to do was become a civil officer as a firefighter. Um, and so in gaining his rank as a lieutenant firefighter for the The City of Cleveland, my inspiration kind of came through there. So without, you know, should I say, the tales of the life of a youth trying to find himself, I figured out my path, and that was through, uh, should I say, the Army leadership opportunities in ROTC. So I actually did 3 years of ROTC between 2 different universities. And I ended up at Kent State University. And in my junior year, I actually didn't complete it. So it was a little bit of a dream deferred, though I had actually enlisted in between that time in the National Guard because I wanted to actually be a better officer. And so, so I finished my enlisted term along with my degree. My bachelor's degree in criminal justice. And so one of the reasons why I actually did not complete ROTC and a host of things within that deferred dream was because of my brother's death by suicide.

Ah, sorry to hear that.

Yeah, thank you. And so with any death trauma experience, this sudden life change, there comes an adjustment. And so my adjustment experience was I went through that period and it took quite some time in order for me to really find myself and figure that part of myself out. And a piece I wanted to hone in on was I didn't really receive a whole lot of support from my National Guard unit at the time. We had just entered this War on Terror. 9/11 had taken place. Everybody was in a state of shock, crisis, and nobody really knew how to react and respond to that crisis, let alone maybe how to support individual soldiers' families who were experiencing their own crisis. And so, um, with having, um, a spiritual kind of communal and clinical, uh, career orientation, um, I, uh, was inspired to, uh, go back into the Army As a chaplain, even though before I was kind of soul-searching social work side, but that really wasn't it for me. I wanted to combine the spiritual aspect with that, and I landed on chaplaincy. So that, that was it for me, and that was at the age of 30 or 31 years old.

Wow, me and my wife and my kids and my dog. What was your rank in the city, in the country?

I entered at the age of 19 as a PFC, so E3, and that was because I had already had 2 years of ROTC.

Wow, I see. And what was your MOS? I guess that's what you guys are probably talking about.

Yep, yep.

Mission Occupation Specialty, right? So my MOS at the time, it was 74 Bravo, right? So that was— and then they switched all the numbers and all that other stuff. It really doesn't mean anything outside of the notebook that it's transcribed in. But it switched over then to 25 or 24 Bravo. The 24 series was communications, computers. And so— Signal, cool.

Yeah, signal.

Um, and so, um, so within Signal, uh, I'm gonna grab this, uh, IT specialist, um, um, basically I learned how to build a computer from the, uh, the board of the laptop, how to install, uh, everything from Linux operating system to, uh, network line and crimp cable And now I don't think that's even relevant because it all just comes like pre-criminally. Yeah, I mean, it's all been, you know, that rare utility skill of logging into MS-DOS and running your TCP/IP and doing all of that, you know, from the routers and all that stuff. It's pretty much antiquated.

Wow, that is pretty amazing. So 11 years later, you become a chaplain, so an officer. And I'm assuming the Army helped pay for your bachelor's and your master's degree.

Believe it or not, yeah. And I had just done that, you know, the bachelor's, that was just— excuse me— that was just, if you will, an icing on the top. I didn't go for the purpose of getting my school paid for. It was because I really just didn't want to fail as an officer, as a leader. And I wrote in my book, it was because we were doing a night land nav course, and essentially my protractor was turned upside down. And so me and my battle buddy I don't think we got off of our night land nav course until maybe about like 1:30 or 2:00 in the morning. We were all scraped and bruised and everything else because I was the leader, you know, this 19-year-old, you know, second-year-old TC student, had an upside-down protractor.

Wow.

What an experience. Wow, this is, this is, uh, quite amazing. Some of the things that we go through, the experiences we have, kind of shape our future, the decision you make, and then the person you want to become. So it looks like you, you did get your Bachelor of Justice, I think in 2005, and then I guess some 10 years later is when you earned your Master of Divinity from Liberty University, right?

Correct, correct. Yeah, um, and, and I didn't— I went into that not even recognizing.

I, um, only when—

how should I say— a year into it and I'm struggling did I understand that it's one of the hardest degrees that somebody can really partake in. And I'm just like, oh, I'll just do it because that's, that's what's required. And then I'm there pulling my hair out because I'm like, I don't know what I got myself into.

Wow, really fascinating. And so when you became a chaplain, I'm assuming you were like an 401, which is for the Army, a right, uh, second lieutenant, right? Second lieutenant. So what was your last rank enlisted during the transition?

So I was an E-4 promotable.

Wow.

Yeah, so yeah, I got out as an E-4 and I was getting ready for, you know, the M5 trials, if you will, and all that stuff. And pretty much at that time, again, it was during a period of some pretty deep depression, pretty, if you will, I was stuck in a trauma state with a lack of awareness because again, it was about a good year and a half after my brother had completed suicide, and I was just really trying to understand my place in things. My brother and I, we were very close. He followed in the footsteps of my father, so he was a firefighter as well. And so being the son, single son survivor of my parents, and trying to pick up a whole lot of pieces, it just made it very difficult. But again, It really allowed for me to gain a lot of perspective. And my daughter, who is my oldest now, I had to make the decision to orient my purpose towards her, who she is 19— correction, she's turning 19. She's 18 at UC Riverside.

Wow.

And she's going to school due to my military service, you know. So all of it really comes into full circle with that.

Yes. Wow. So I am really imagining your family definitely helped you kind of go through the dark, dark time.

Yeah, and I can't— and, you know, as we speak to this, you know, the reason why I'm transparent with is because I found that not only is it healing to continue to share this story that I have, but it also, if you will, kind of gives others that permission to look into themselves and see a piece of their journey in my experience as well because And so my experience has its dynamics. It's not particularly unique because we all experience these areas of trials and grief and loss and difficulty. And if you will, I was supposed to be, according to my plan, right, 21 turning 22, being commissioned as a second lieutenant. However, it ended up being '31, uh, about to turn 32, you know. So it was a two— or excuse me, a decade later, um, and at one point in between, I didn't even believe that it was going to, uh, happen.

Wow, that's pretty amazing, just the human resilience, right? And, uh, still going forward with regardless of what life kind of throws at you. Well, definitely, and being a chaplain, I'm sure you've helped a lot of people kind of go through their own grief and giving them spiritual guidance as well. I know me as a sailor, the very first time I saw someone commit suicide, I was on board the USS Essex. This one sailor, he was enlisted, I think an E-5, and if news got to him that his girlfriend or his wife decided to get a divorce or break up, cheat on him, or whatever the case was, and he just felt like he didn't have any hope, didn't want to live any longer. So he pretty much jumped off, uh, uh, overboard, right, from the, uh, uh, carrier there. And, uh, yeah, it was really, really, really terrible. I will, I will never Forget that.

And definitely rarely discussed, um, you know, should I say, um, as you've brought it up, I, I, I can't imagine that that was the first time that's ever happened, though it's the first time, um, out of, if you will, a leader's, um, mouth that, uh, it's happened in front of their eyes, right?

Yes.

Um, so Thank you for bringing that to light, and I can't imagine what that did to you at that time.

Yes, and I think all of the chaplains we have on board ships, they pretty much got really, really busy for the next week or so because, you know, that's the thing, is when people commit suicide, and it is really, really sad that the military, those who are retired, all of the veteran, right? There is a higher percentage of us going through mental sickness and committing suicide than the general population. Like, as far as last year, like the statistic I had, it was like what, every 21 minutes a veteran pretty much ends their life, which is just incredible. I mean, this is not right. We really have every reason to live for. So that's definitely a very, very serious issue, and hopefully we are making some progress because definitely, you know, life is worth living. Which brings me to, to your book, uh, Dig Deep, right? Psychospiritual handbook of befriending your best self, 5x5 side-by-side guide. Can you tell us more about the 5x5 method?

Yes, yes. So, um, you know, I, uh, developed this, um, through my own process of trying to figure out, um, purpose by name, you know, because in many ways, uh, you know, we, we wake up, we engage life, we, we get things done, uh, we wake, eat, sleep, repeat. And we do this constantly, and then it becomes just like this unconscious habit, if you will. But I wanted to bring it to my consciousness, and by there I started to research, and a piece of it was this neuropsychology aspect, how to Oh, and also I entered into my doctorate of clinical psychology during the time of my deployment. So that has a lot to do with it as well. And so this 5x5 side-by-side method was basically how according to neuropsychology, we help ourselves fully actuate. If we're going to talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if we're going to talk about meeting our basic needs, and then of course getting to this place where we are beyond just simply being comfortable and then we are living for purpose. We're able to reflect upon our lives. We're able to, should I say, engage in this idea of introspection. And if we step beyond just simply introspection and comfort, we ask ourselves, what's more important than just trying to eat, clothe ourselves, get love, right? And live beyond the basic essentials. And so through all of that research and whatnot, and also with my very skillful wordplay and rhyming skills, because I'm a poet at times, I came up with, uh, Faith, Family, Friends, Fitness, and Finances, because these are the things that keep people awake at night. Um, these are the things that, uh, we constantly find ourselves, um, pondering, um, the questions of why, um, what it is that we are living for, the things that we are working to sustain in our lives, those things which send us into crisis moments, right?

Yes.

A crisis of faith, a crisis of losing our family relationships, our most important friend relationships, our fitness overall when we're talking about our spiritual, our mental health, our physical health. And then of course I went through my Series 6 certificate training license, insurance producer and all this other stuff, so I understand, if you will, the fundamentals of finances. And also when someone loses their financial foundation, or if you're just simply trying to survive the basic— when you look at it, and this is also coming from a criminal justice background, many of the crimes in the Western culture stem from this basic need of survival when you are looking at it. Alright, so again, faith, family, friends, fitness, and finances is really what's driving human behavior. And so when it comes down to it, if we are going to, should I say, work on our purpose, then we go into purpose planning, patience, and persistent perseverance. And so this is the 5x5 Side-by-Side Guide.

Wow.

That's how it came about.

That is, that is, that's very good. I think this book is quite timely, especially, you know, in the— I guess we're still in the middle of this pandemic, right, which kind of in the US started in March of last year, right? More than 600,000 people died and people started working from home. Especially at the beginning, we were not exactly sure what was going to happen, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of fear. And I think now you're talking about, no, the great resignation, but people have really thought very hard about what life is all about and why do they go to work, why do they have to work, and what type of work they, they, they want to do, right? So I, I feel like now more than ever, you know, in our modern history, people are really trying to be fully aligned to their own core, core values, kind of, kind of, you know, find out exactly what is important to them, not just what's society is telling them is important. I really like that you do have finances as part of the method, but really it's a lot about relationship. We're talking about faith, maybe relationship with God, friends, family, fitness, and then finances as well. So it's really a comprehensive system.

Yes, yes. And the As you bring it up, it's the funny part about it, or should I say the laughing matter within it is as I presented this to my daughter and it was an instance where I'm, you know, as we all are, we're trying to be the best parents that we can be and take the best that our parents provided us with and tweak it and make it better. And so, and letting her drive our very expensive SUV that no longer is in our care because it got stolen after letting her drive our very expensive SUV.

Oh, I didn't say anything.

It's okay. It's since been replaced. I said, you know what, in order for you to get your driving privileges back again, you're gonna have to read this book. And so she's like, okay. And then she's like, well, you know, Dad, this book is actually pretty good. I thought it was just gonna be about, you know, loving your family. Yeah, saving your money and stuff like that. I'm like, oh, well, you know, I'm glad that it's not just, you know, this bare-bones basic, you know, Reading Rainbow type of book to you, you And so the COVID really, you can't judge the book by it because a great, should I say, if you go into the references, you will see that a great deal of research and time and if you will, intent has gone into developing this book because I purposefully, if you will, sifted through the jargon and really tried to bring a common language to the reader so that anyone who opens the book would be able to understand it and it not go over or under anyone's head. So I've been told that in some cases it's very enlightening, in some cases it's very visceral. Some people have had to put it down and overskip a chapter because it's just like, hey, that's a little too heavy for me.

Yes.

Yeah, you know, so I wanted to mention that based on what you had just said.

Yeah, thanks so much, Marcus. I know when I read chapter 7, there's a quote, I think it is yours, says, how precious is each moment? Each moment combined creates a lifetime. That's quite profound. And again, after going through this pandemic, I think this makes makes too much sense, right? Your life is really each moment you have and kind of know what, what are you contributing to it, and then also what are you getting out of it, right? Is it, is it really worth it? So for all of the people listening to us now, they can go to your website to purchase your book. And what is the website?

Yes, my, my website is my name, Marcus banksbey.com. You'll see pictures of me, my family, the book, and just everything that I live for. You know, a little bit of, you know, my identity and authenticity. And I encourage everybody to kind of live within theirs, right? Because as I say in the book, you were born to be yourself. Yourself, right? You weren't born to be anybody else. And you can also go to my publisher's website, Brand N Stone, Brand N, the letter N, Stone, uh, dot com. And that's Deborah Harris. She's a great publisher, a good friend of mine, and she's the one that's really helped me out and, and, um, kind of helped me get, uh, that, that book cover along with the graphic designer and getting that, that, yeah, we, we came up with that cover design just as it overlapping and everything else. I think it's gonna go down in history. I love it. But anyways, brandonstone.com. And, and then of course, um, it helps to buy it directly from the website right now because we're not sharing in the distribution and all that other stuff. The PDF that is available on the website, you can integrate that into your Kindle. And then if you purchase the, the ePub version, that's going to go directly into your Apple Books. And within the next several weeks, the versions are going to become available on all of your big sites such as, should I say, Amazon, Kindle, Nook, and Apple Books and everything else.

Outstanding.

Yeah.

So what is really one of the main messages you would like the reader of your book to come out with after they've read all, I think, 7 chapters? What do you want them to take away?

The most to get out of this book is really how you are born with purpose, whether you have been able to recognize that or not, that your purpose is to continue to persevere, that life is not life without its struggles. It can't be helped. It can't be avoided. Many of us would like to believe that the reason why we hit barriers or obstacles or things of that sort is because we're deserving of it, and that's just not true. Those are false beliefs. We don't get into a car crash because of, you know, someone that we cursed out earlier or some other type of wrongdoing. It's just a matter of timing and unfortunate events. And then sometimes a break in a certain area means that that particular area has to get stronger, just like when a butterfly has to break out of its chrysalis. It has to do that in order to be able to be strong enough to fly. So this is just the realities of life. I know that it's going to push against our belief systems and everything that we've been taught to, if you will, incorporate into our persons and our personalities. But again, if we look at ourselves compared to how long humanity has been on this planet, planet, you're, you're talking about, uh, 120 years at max compared to a couple of millions. So we have to give ourselves some time, uh, to really understand what, uh, living and life is all about.

Well, that is really great. I couldn't agree more. I think it was Mark Twain who says, uh, the two most important days in your life are the day you are born and then the day you find out why. So everybody, yeah, to figure out what is their purpose. Now, 3 quick questions to, to end this. One is, uh, what is the greatest lesson you have learned?

Uh, you know, the, the greatest lesson that, that I've learned is, uh, that, um, uh, I, I was never born to know it all, you know. I was here to, um, to share in this collective, in that individuality is really just an illusion because the human experience is just that. It's a, it's a conscious collectivism. And then once we really understand that we were placed on within this existence for a collective purpose, you know, we really get to see how we can unify.

Wow, that's pretty deep. Playing from the chaplain, I get it. Wonderful. Okay, so what are you learning now?

Um, I'm learning now that, um, uh, I, man, uh, that growth doesn't stop, you know, um, that we essentially limit ourselves, uh, but that our Creator, regardless of how we, uh, define it to be, um, has never been limited, just in the same respect that every piece of water, whether it be within a gas or mist or, or liquid form or however, is all connected. If you can visualize that, then your potential is absolutely grand.

Wow, that is, that is wonderful. Another very last question is How has failure shaped your life?

Um, you know, uh, I used to believe that, that failure meant that I couldn't achieve, um, but it actually means that I'm bound to be successful. Um, failure, uh, has showed me what my limitations used to be.

But I—

and most importantly, um, one thing that I've learned is that, uh, you know, I'm just gonna stop trying, uh, to do, uh, you know, math and calculus and all that other stuff, you know, because I'm just like, yeah, yeah, that's just not what I'm good at, you know. It's okay not to be good at some stuff. Yes, it doesn't mean that you failed. It just means that maybe you're not built for it, right? But it doesn't mean that you're not a genius in many other areas. I found that I am a genius. And, um, you know, you can— it doesn't mean that you, you can't try, but, uh, it might mean that, um, you can take that attention, that drive, and that focus and put it into some other areas and excel far greater and much quicker.

Wow, that is quite a a great listener. Like, even if you look at a fish in the wrong environment, it looks pretty dumb, can't do anything. And once you put the fish in water, you see it's genius. So there is something in you that you and only you can do, and you do so well. And that's really— so you really need to build on your strength. I really love that. Thank you so much, Marcus, for your time. Really appreciate that. And again, everyone, if you want to purchase the book Dig Deep, I highly encourage that you do. Markusbanksbay.com. You can purchase the ebook version or the print version. And thanks, thanks, thanks again for giving us your time today. Any last, last word before we end up?

No, you know what, I appreciate, you know, when I have these conversations with individuals like yourself, it's very humbling, it's very insightful. And anytime you want to have me back on, uh, just let me know and I'd be delighted.

Outstanding. Thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, sir.

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Beezy. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.