Episode 15 (Video): Live with Vishwas Manral on Leadership & Success

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, this podcast is for you. His mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to positively impact the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

Hello again, my LinkedIn audience. I'm very, very glad to be here and happy Thanksgiving to everyone. I have another great guest with me, Vishwas Manuel, who is the founder and CEO of Nanosec. Without further ado, let's welcome Vishwas. How are you doing this morning?

Hey, thank you.

Okay, perfect.

I'm doing great and great to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

Wonderful. I am really so glad you made time to talk to us today. You're actually in San Jose, right, is where you are based? And I am in San Francisco, so we don't really live much apart. Can you tell us about your leadership journey, how you came to become a founder and CEO?

Sure, I can, I can tell you, you know, my journey. Again, everybody has a different journey, and I'm hopeful my journey is, in my view, it's been different and pretty challenging, but I can run you through it, right? So I'm a technologist and an engineer at heart, done some of the core security standards out there. So if you've used IPsec, right, which is how you're, you know, which is one of the most well-used VPN protocols, I've created some of the standards around that. If you've been using bank accounts and, you know, withdrawing money from ATMs connecting back to your data centers. There's a technology called ADVPN or DMVPN as it's called by Cisco, and that's one technology that I've also been an author of. So I've actually been, like I said, an engineer and technologist all along. You know, slowly along the way, the sort of the entrepreneurship bug sort of caught on to me. I started a company called IONIS Networks, which has nothing to do with security, nothing to do with the, you know, but, uh, with core infrastructure, it was more about analytics for out-of-home billboards. I ran that for a couple of years and then started Nanosec. And, you know, working very closely with large companies, you know, out of New York, some big banks, some big media companies, I started Nanosec. Uh, you know, we saw some key critical big problems in the space, right, around workload security and containers. We found there were no appropriate solutions for that. We knew the big moment was coming. This is 6 years back when containers were just getting started and Kubernetes was probably just at its infancy. We saw that movement coming and we sort of started a company around that. 2 years back McAfee actually acquired my company and now, right now, I'm actually part of McAfee, you know, working for McAfee as the head of cloud native security and as the chief architect of cloud.

Wow, that is, uh, pretty, uh, fascinating. What do you think was like some of the, uh, biggest, uh, challenging, uh, founding a company and getting funding and all of that?

Yeah, I mean, there were numerous challenges, right? It's like in life, if you do something different, you're gonna— you're gonna be challenged in a lot of aspects. You may get lucky and be successful, or most probably you're going to learn the lessons the hard way. And because I come from a technology background versus a business background, there were challenges on the business side for me. I knew customers, I did not know the whole selling motion, I did not know how easy it is to sell technology. My assumption when I started off was it would be if I make the best technology and get the best people, we would be able to sort of be successful. As I sort of ran through the journey, I realized enterprise selling is not the same as, you know, just making a product and giving it out to the market. And that was a big learning for me, right? And I learned a lot along the way, you know, managing teams, working with teams, continuously changing yourself because of the fact that, you know, at each level in the journey, right, when you start off, the CEO has to be a be, like I said, more of a product guy and technologist. As you move forward, the CEO has to become more of a mentor to teams, right? Guiding the teams, leading teams. As you move further ahead, you have to become greater at, you know, selling things. So the journey keeps changing for a CEO of a startup, and you know, you have to continuously evolve. And that was— there's a lot of learning in each aspect of it for me.

Wow, thank you so much for sharing your insight, because I know quite, uh, a few people who are trying to start a tech business now and eventually they would like to exit, go profitable, or maybe even go IPO or whatnot. So you've been quite ambitious in your career. What do you think has been kind of the inspiration for you? Because I think you founded not just one but two companies, right? Or at least two. So you are a serial successful entrepreneur, which is not very easy to do because you founded IUNOS Networks as well, I believe, in 2014, right?

That's correct. That's correct.

So I would say— So which has been the inspiration for you? And the—

So it's always been— Yes. And this is one learning that I had, right? And if you're going to start a startup thinking it's going to be successful and you'll make your billions or millions, it's not going to work out for you, right? Because I've seen that journey and I've seen a lot of people go through the journey and get totally unhappy with the journey because, you know, they realize the salaries that they were getting in their large companies, you know, the big 5s was twice or thrice that, the share prices of these companies are growing up and, you know, you'd be very dissatisfied going in a startup. The reason I was able to do the startup was because I really believed, you know, there were some challenging problems that were out there. I believed I could solve them and trying to work it in the organization that I was, was not feasible and it was not possible and that's what led me through the journey. I have seen myself in the past, right, I've seen myself be successful in the past, like I said, you know, writing technologies, creating new technologies and for me it was just an evolution from where I was to actually starting a new company and so that is what sort of led me through the path of sort of starting the company and By the, you know, I would say I would be very lucky because of luck I was able to get an exit from one of the companies. The other company is still, you know, got spun out into two companies, still running. So I'm happy about that too.

Wow, that is fantastic. And what have you learned about raising capital for your startups?

So raising capital has various ways, right? So there is various ways to look at slice and dice things, right? So I'll tell you, when I started IMS Networks, I raised capital on day one. So I left a big company I joined in as a founder and CTO. And, you know, I actually had the same salary that I was having in this large company.

Right.

But then I realized, because I took money too early, the products were not defined. We had a very, very, very senior management team. I felt, you know, there were issues with, you know, with that, right. And I worked very closely with VCs for that. But, you know, I found that there were lots of challenges because the people we hired were too early for the stage of the company we were, right? And so that was one side of it. When I started Nanosec, I said, you know, I'm going to take money as late as possible and only from people I know because last time I raised money and with working with VCs, we hired very early and, you know, it wasn't really the best experience for me. The learning wasn't as much because we had all the people who are already experts in that field. So I wanted to sort of not just get an exit but also learn through the journey, right? And so this time I sort of said, okay, I'm going to delay my funding rounds and so on and and sort of that's what I did. So brought the product out to market, then sort of got some funding and took it from there. So the learnings were immense, like I said. One of the biggest learnings that I found was, you know, when you're talking to VCs, you're not selling a product, you're actually selling the opportunity. VCs are money people, right? They're actually looking at dollars, right? If they can see dollars falling all over, that's what they want. That's what you should focus on. Most of the time I see engineers, they focus too much on the technology and the product. This is the product I'm building, this is the challenge. VCs do not actually care about that. If they feel you're the right person for the job, they feel that the opportunity is big enough, they feel that you can help them get big money, they will put money in you, right? And I've seen that through the journey. And I feel that's where I feel engineers sort of miss out. Because they're focusing too much on the product. It's not— you're not selling to a customer, you're selling to VC. And so selling has to be very different when you're selling to VC versus a customer. So you should sell the opportunity versus the, the product itself.

Well said. Well, well said. And you are also the chairman of the board for the Silicon Valley chapter for the Cloud Security Alliance, so you definitely give a lot back to the community. Thank you for that. How did that come to pass?

So yeah, so this is again, you know, through my entrepreneurship journey, one of the things that I realized, like I said, right, my journey from a technologist to a CEO was, you know, my knowledge and my empathy of customers was not good enough. I did not know customers well enough to be able to create solutions that were perfect for them, right? I want to create solutions that will be very good for my customers, not just from a technology perspective, also how easy it is to consume, how easy is it to use, how easy is it to deploy, how easy is it to sort of onboarded. And when I first made my first products, I realized those were aspects that I was totally missing. And that's where I said, you know, I need to be working closely with groups, with teams, with, with the organizations where I can learn from customers but also give back the technology aspect that I have. And that's where I sort of got involved with Cloud Security Alliance. Maybe not now, that was like, you know, a long while back.. And over the time I was just a member of the Cloud Security Alliance. Over time I became vice chairman. Right now I sort of am the chair of the Cloud Security Alliance, leading a great group of people. You know, we have Mike McAdoo, the CISO of GoShipo. We've got Cem Gürkoğlu, you know, Marshmi, you know, people from very diverse backgrounds, from Okta, from Facebook, from all sorts of places. And we are able to work together, become with our own angles, and we are able to sort of not just, you know, come together and sort of discuss things, but we also create events. And for the community, we sort of share our viewpoints regularly, bring in the best speakers, and sort of are able to give back to the community. And that's, that's been very valuable for me.

Wow, that is quite amazing. And as a tech executive and CEO, one subject that is very, uh, important to me is just diversity in the tech field. I feel like we are becoming more and more diverse, we're doing better, but maybe not as fast as I, I was hoping. What, uh, do you think from your experience can tech leaders do to kind of help technology be more diverse, have more women and ethnically, uh, minorities, and just make, uh, cybersecurity and tech more diverse in general? Correct.

And I love that question, right? I feel diversity is very critical. But when I see— and like you said, diversity is growing, right? Whether it's color, it's, you know, LGBTQ, it's women, right? The diversity is growing for sure. My take is diversity is not just in recruiting that you have to look at. You have to look at diversity even in views. As long as you have diversity in views, even once after you have recruited that's when people feel involved, feel included. And that's where you can retain the talent, but also hire the best and the most diverse talent. If you value diverse views, you will recruit the highest talent. But if you do not value diverse views, even if you have a channel that says, you know, you have to hire and you are, you know, diversity is important, you're not, it's not going to work for you. Because even if you hire them, you know, they will not be satisfied. It's not just about hiring, it's about retaining, actually having a culture where you value that diversity. And that's when, you know, I think diversity actually flourishes. And I think that's very important for companies to sort of realize and know. I do not see, you know, companies focused on diversity from that angle, you know, because there's been a mandate, there's this push for diversity. I see a lot of people say diversity, but they're sort of saying, okay, in the beginning of the channel, we'll get some people who are diverse. Once you come in, I don't care, lots of time people will leave. And, you know, it's like, you know, organization may look diverse, they may not necessarily be diverse, right? We have to make it diverse. You have to actually value those views, you have to actually nurture those views, you have to actually get them to sort of get them to positions where they can realize what they want, right, with those diverse views. And I think that's very important.

Wow, that is, that is so So key. So diversity in thoughts, experience, and way of thinking. But then also when people— when you get those people, making them feel included, right? Like giving them a sense of belonging. Yeah, because I've seen some, some organization where, yeah, they want to be diverse and they want to hire you, but then they don't want to give you room to say anything, right? Or to, to provide your opinions or thought. Yeah, no, that is, that is really, really key. Now, another organization you are a member of, that's where we met, is the exclusive Forbes Technology Council. Uh, what was your journey there? How did that happen for you?

So interestingly, I was, I was very lucky. Forbes actually reached me about a couple of years back to be part of the Forbes Technology Council, and I looked at it and there was amazing people like you. You're part of the Forbes Technology Council. I know there are like You know, Carlos Signatoro, I think he's the Cisco CTO. He was there. I knew some other folks that are— oh no, no, no. There were lots of other people that I sort of saw that were part of the Forbes Technology Council that I already knew. And, you know, it was a very easy decision for me to make. Of course, it took a bit of time. Instead of 2 years, I actually waited for a year and finally, you know, gave in and said, okay, you know, this is something that I would love to be part of. Last one year has been amazing. I've sort of got to work with a lot of people, a lot of different, you know, leaders, lots of different views. So it's been an amazing journey for me at Forbes Council.

Wow. So now it gets to the part of my program I want to ask you my 7 questions. But before I do, is there anything else you would like to tell us about what you've learned about going into the leader you are today, going from being a maybe individual contributor and engineer to now being a CEO and founder. What, uh, what, what, what are your insights?

I think the key thing that I would say is, uh, you know, from, uh, being a leader is a sort of a journey, right? You have to start off early. The earlier you start, the better it is, right? You can— you want to take up leadership roles as soon as possible, whether it's a manager, it's a team lead, I think that will be great for people to sort of grow up the journey. And my take is be bold, right? That's also another very important thing if you have to sort of grow to be a good leader, you have to be bold, you have to be ready to fail, you have to be ready to sort of fall. Only then you can sort of successfully grow as a leader. My take is you have to experiment, you have to try new things. Those are so important to me. To being good leaders. So that if I was to tell people, try early, become leaders early, it's okay to fail, it's okay to sort of not be perfect. And, you know, it's absolutely normal and you will fall for sure, you will fail for sure. And take it as a learning versus take it as a failure. And that's very important.

Wow, that is a great lesson. So question number 1, what is the greatest lesson you have learned? And what's the secret of your success?

So, you know, so the greatest lesson I would say is empathy, right? Empathy, when I say I learned it from my wife, right? But when I see her, I sort of look at her on a daily basis, I learn from it. But I actually just gave an example to somebody I just talked to, right? I had a leader, right, as part of McAfee, right? His name is Rajiv Gupta. He was the CEO of Sky High, right? And he was the leader here of the cloud group, you know, earlier. He's now left and started his next company. What I saw with him was that there were people who were willing to go the extra mile for him and do whatever it took. And they trusted him, you know, over everything else. And the thing that I saw that he was able to do was it was all because of the empathy that he had. And what I found was interesting, I'll give you an example. We were having a meditation session about 2 years back before COVID happened, right, in our office. And he was also part of that sort of same discussion, right? And he was part of the same sort of meditation session, right? And he was there. The meditation teacher told us, okay, close your eyes, typical thing, right? Think of beautiful things, you know, recite something. And then they wanted us to have our feet touching the ground, right? Like, because we're doing meditation while sitting on the chair. And you know, as a usual person, my team was there. I was sitting and my feet were touching the ground. Everything was good. Suddenly I see this guy go out and come back sometime later with 4 bricks. I'm like, what the heck is he doing? Then I see the girl next to me from my team sitting right next to me. She's a bit short. Her feet were not touching the ground. This guy had actually gone out and brought these 4 bricks so that her feet would touch the ground because the yoga meditation teacher had said, hey, your feet should be touching the ground and you know, that's essential. And I was like Man, I'm sitting next to this person that considers myself a great leader. And then I have this, this thing that I could not even observe or see. And you know, that's when you see that kind of empathy, you see people go the extra mile for you, right? For sure, they will go the extra mile, they will do things right. And this is not just from a leadership perspective, it's also empathy towards your customers. When I can sit in the shoes of my customers, walk their steps, right, I can actually— and have the empathy for that, I can build better products, right? Empathy is so important, every aspect of the journey. And that's the big lesson I have learned. And you asked me one more question, right? What is, what is your sort of, you know, secret to success? So from my perspective, I do not think I've been, you know, success— I'm not very successful from any stretch of imagination, as I would say it, right? But, but You know, I would say, you know, one of the key things that has sort of defined me, that has helped me, you know, like I said, create new companies, help me do things, is focusing on the why. I know it's now very common. When I'm sort of looking at, you know, you know, something that, you know, a new product is required or new thing is required, I do not start off with, hey, what is the new requirement? I'm figuring out, okay, why is this a new requirement? What is changing? How do you extrapolate that? So going all the way to the why has actually helped me be successful. So that's what I would say is sort of one of the, one of the sort of the reasons I think I find myself being successful. So empathy is sort of the big lesson I learned. And, you know, I think the why is sort of one of the reasons I've been successful.

No, this is really, really important. I'm sure you've read the book by Simon Sinek, right? Starts with why. Yes, that is, that is so important because if you know exactly why you are doing something, because like you said earlier, obstacles will come, sometimes you are going to fail, but what's going to motivate you to keep going and keep going? Every time you fall, you get back up is because you have a very, very big, big why and you just won't let go. And I really like what you said about empathy as well. You and I, we live in Silicon Valley, there's a lot of great ego, I think, in this region, a lot of very smart people, great IQs and stuff, especially in the engineering community, right? Everybody is kind of like a genius, everybody is so delicate, but I feel like what we need is more emotional intelligence, more empathy, more awareness of self and of others, like being able to work with people. And that's really a very, very big lesson to learn as a leader. Would you like to say anything more about that?

I think what you're mentioning is absolutely right. Like you said, the journey, you know, knowing yourself is sort of the most important thing in the whole journey. Once you know yourself, then you can know others and help. I guess knowing yourself is absolutely critical. I think you're bringing out the right points that yes, there are egos. And from my perspective, if you look at it the other way around, right, there are egos, but you know, there are— the egos are for a particular reason, right? And You know, we have to sort of be able to understand where they're coming from, why are they coming here. And as long as you understand that, you know, those, those, those things that you see as issues actually become very explainable and you can actually help tackle the issues that, that you have.

That's how I see it. That is really, really good. And the other question I have for you is, what are you learning now?

So like I said, I'm now a part of McAfee. So, you know, McAfee, the learning for me is immense because of the fact that I'm now joining this large organization. Sorry about that. I'm, I'm now part of this large organization. Large organizations work very differently from small organizations. When I start my startup, I define the culture, I define the how the company is, what sort of people come in, you know, how do we make sure that the people are aligned. But once you get to a large company, it's not a culture that you define.— it's a culture that was defined long back. It has grown from what it was, has evolved, there are multiple teams with diverse priorities. Priorities in a lot of cases are actually, you know, in direct clash with each other, right? And so there is a lot of, you know, different dynamics that are there in large companies. And that's been a big learning for me, right? Seeing how to work in these environments, how do you become successful in these environments? What does success mean for people who are working in these environments? It's so different from what you would from a startup, right? In a startup, it's all about getting this thing out, becoming successful, do what it takes, right? Versus these cases, it's a lot about how do you balance out things? How do you sort of make sure that it's a win-win when even when you're, you know, you may be at direct clash with the, you know, in priorities with another person on the team? How do you find that win-win scenario? How do you convince people even though you do not have any power of those people? That's been great learnings for me, and you know, it's, it's been a great experience, and that's what I'm learning right now.

Wow, so becoming an influencer, yeah, that is, that is so, uh, important. So number 3, how has failure shaped your life?

Failure is, you know, I, I've, like I said, you know, I've failed more often than not. And that's because I've taken more risks than others would. And so that's been my journey. I failed more often, I've been willing to take more risks, fail. And failure has shaped me because, you know, the way I look at it, I've always treated failure as a building block to success, as a learning experience. And that's what has been very, very sort of critical for me, right? And it's actually helped me define my journey. So I'll give you an example, right? I'm talking to you. One of the reasons I agreed to talk to you despite the fact that we just began talking, you know, a few days back, right? I was willing to because I realized I'm not a great speaker, right? And talking is going to— of course, I'm not going to be the greatest speaker as I talk, but, you know, it's going to help me, refine me, make me a better speaker as I talk more and more. And that's why I've been doing it. So that's been my sort of journey, and that's been my learning from failure. So push yourself, Do more. Don't treat failure as failure. Treat it more as a learning.

That is a great, great lesson in life, especially for millennials and people just kind of starting in the workplace. They kind of expect sometimes success right away, and they don't really take the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Because I always believe that failure and success are really two sides of the same coin. Actually, kind of like what you say, you kind of need to fail as quickly as you can, as often as you can, so you can learn from it, which is eventually going to lead you to, uh, success. Great, great, great lesson I think people can apply throughout their, their life. So question number 4, uh, who do you know we should know? I know you already mentioned a great leader where people would go the extra mile for them, but we want to kind of know who are your mentors, thought leaders that you are following.

So I mean, there are lots of people who have mentored me, I have to say, my journey in a startup. Would not have been possible without the great help of a lot of people, right? It's people I know but also people I do not know. And in the Valley, that's one thing I really have to appreciate, you know, people go out of the way to help you without even, in a lot of cases, knowing you, right? I've had so many people who've helped me, right? I can give you names of like, you know, there's a guy called Sarge Lai, he was my manager in HP. There's Bethany, she was the CEO of Ixia. Dave Larson, he was my manager again at HP. He's now a CTO at Spirent. There have been so many people I've sort of worked with, I can tell you that I've learned from. But if you were to ask me, right, who should you know? I think I'll go back to your question, the point that you brought up, right? You need to know yourself, and that is most important. Like Sun Tzu in The Art of War has said, right? Know yourself and you will win all battles. And I think knowing yourself is the first step in the journey, and then, you know, you can know others. And that's sort of what I would say. I know you would expect a slightly different answer— hey, talk to person A, B, and C— but those are the kind of things that I see so important.

No, that is so critical, because if you know yourself, then you can really figure out what your purpose is. I think it kind of sets you into the right direction. For you. And I think it kind of attracts the right people into your journey as well. Wow, this is great. Thank you. Thanks so much. So number 5, what have you read that we should read? What are some of the books you've been reading recently?

So what I read, right, I'll tell you the thing that actually inspired me. And this is pretty interesting, right? So I was, as a kid, not a kid, I would say I just graduated out and I was just working my first job. I read this book called The New New Thing This is by Michael Lewis. It's about this entrepreneur called Jim Clark. He's founded 3 companies here in the Valley. This is, I think, pre-burst, right? This big burst, the 2001 burst. It actually inspired me. It gave me a lot of energy. And that's actually, I would say, that is one of the reasons, right, that I am now an entrepreneur. It showed me the power of the entrepreneur, how entrepreneurs are working. In fact, Interestingly, that book had people like, you know, in that mentioned. I'll give an example of Marc Andreessen, who's now the founder of the A16Z, the Andreessen Horowitz venture capital fund, right. There is Kittu Kalluri, who's mentioned in that. He's now the VC at Neo Tribe. I think he's the founder and VC at Neo Tribe. A lot of people that I either now know indirectly or could know directly, you know, are actually mentioned in that book. It's a fascinating book and I sort of you know, it actually gave me energy to start something, right? And this was— gave me a good early start, you know, maybe 20 years back or 18 years back when I was sort of very early in my work life. What I've been learning more recently is slightly more diverse, right? So what I've been reading, in fact, to tell you the truth, if I look at what I was reading a few days back, it's like a book called The Biology Book, right? It's about— it's by, I think, Gloria and Michael— what's it— Gerard, I think. Yeah, Gloria and Michael Gerard. It's It talks about, you know, right from abiogenesis, how did life start. It goes all the way to things that things are right now. The thing that I found fascinating about this book was when I read biology like 20 years back or 25 years back, biology was very different. I realized there's so much more known in biology now than what was known even 20 years back. There are like new families, kingdoms that were not known. It's like, it's fascinating. And my take on the overall way we think about life is also the same, right? Right now we think we know a lot, we have a lot of knowledge, we already know things. But as such, 10 years hence, you'll realize what you knew was such a small thing in the world. There's so much more to learn. And, you know, that's sort of the lesson I can tell you at a high level that you could also learn from that, the book on biology that I'm sort of now reading.

Wow, so the book is by Gloria and Michael, and what is the title? Is that the book on biology?

Yeah, it's called The Biology Book, I guess.

The Biology Book. Wow, that's pretty cool. That's pretty fascinating because I actually— that's what I studied when I was— when I first started in college, biology and chemistry. And then I almost earned a PhD in microbiology, so that was kind of like my first dream. I'm a trained scientist, and then I just stumbled into IT, and now security. So I will definitely purchase this one and encourage our listener to please look into it. The biology book, wonderful. Yeah, I think I just found it on Amazon, and I'm going to be adding those links in the comments section as well so people can look at them. That is quite fascinating. So question number 6: what have you done that we should do? What is one action you have taken that has positively impacted your life, you think?

So I think, what have I done that you should— I think I looked at your profile, right? Again, I don't— I haven't been able to interact with you as much, right? And I see you've done great things. Like you said, you've done— studied in biology and chemistry, did microbiology, and you've done all these great things. Now in IT doing cybersecurity, leading IT before this, right? It's amazing. I really love what you've done, right? It's a lot of learning. When I went through your profile on education, I could see, you know, I had to click it like 10 times. There's so much you've studied. That's like even more amazing, right? I'm like in awe of what you've done, right? If I was to sort of tell you something, you know, what you should be doing, I don't know. I would say it's hard for me to say. But just looking at your profile and what you've done, I would say maybe take more risk is what I would probably say, right, on your work side. Believe more in yourself, see what you can, what more you can do, right? And I think that's, that's a learning for me. Challenge yourself, right? Things that you've seen impossible for you, you think, hey, this is something that I've seen people do, but you know, I don't think I can do it. Don't, don't get bogged down by that. Believe in it, work towards it, you will do it. And that's the sort of the lesson that I, that's positively impacted me. And I'm sure, hopeful it will be something that can help you and impact you in your life.

No, this is very well. I think everybody can definitely do this. And also when I ask that question, I'm thinking about, you know, people who are young, like in their 20s, just getting started in their professional life. Many of them have great aspirations, like you, one day they want to become a founder or a CEO or a CTO or CISO or CIO or something. And what would you tell them? What is one thing you think they kind of should focus on to kind of keep going after their own dream and getting new experiences, just, just like you, you said. I think that is valuable.

Yeah, I think one thing that I'll say is about fear, right? As humans, we have this innate fear, right, like of safety and being, you know, and, you know, keeping to a safe space. And my take is it's a normal human tendency, normal human behavior, right? Because we come from— if you look at how things were maybe even 100 years back. You could, if you at least, if you moved out, you know, you, there was a big chance you could, you know, moved out alone, lived in a, you know, walk through a jungle, there's a high chance you would be killed by a wild animal. So there's always been this fear. But now if you look at it, right, for most parts, if you look at engineers and people, they've earned enough money, they have enough in their bank account that they can live a good life. Again, you know, how good it is depends. So instead My take is, you know, don't be, you know, bound by those fears. Try to sort of challenge yourself and you will be able to be successful, is what I would sort of again repeat.

Wow, thank you, thank you so much. You have been, uh, so kind with your time. I know you're super, super busy. Thank you for being here. Now we're coming to the very, very last question. How can we add value to you?

So from my perspective, right, you've been a great cyber— you're in the cybersecurity field, you've done great things, right? I would love— and I've been an entrepreneur. We have so many ways we can collaborate, right? Like, hey, you could do podcasts, like you said, right? We could do on cybersecurity because we're in the same field. We could do podcasts on leadership. We could do discussions on so many other things there. Because I'm an entrepreneur, I continuously need feedback on what I'm thinking, what I'm doing, what I'm feeling, right? You could provide me feedback on that. So there are lots of ways to collaborate. I know, you know, we can decide on some of them, and I'm sure we'll come back and work more on that as we move forward.

Well, thanks, thanks again, Vishwas. It was really, really great talking to you. So again, we started a little bit late on this podcast, but I think everything you've said is extremely valuable, and our listeners will definitely be able to use some of those wisdom nuggets to become better leaders and also achieve greater levels of success. But one trend I'm seeing in everything we've talked about is we really should never be satisfied with wherever we are at, right? Like, success is a journey. It's not like the end. It's not like you go from point A point B and that's done, you don't have anything more to learn or do. It's like challenging yourself to go higher and higher and higher and do more and add value to your community. Any last parting word you would like to say?

Yeah, I would say believe in yourself and you do well. I think that's what I'll say, believe in yourself.

Outstanding. Well, with that, we are going to say goodbye for now and thank you so much for watching the leadership Leadership and Success Podcast.

Thank you, Bob.

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.