Episode 25: Live with Jim Willsey on Leadership and Success

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Beezy. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, this podcast is for you. His mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to positively impact the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

All right, everyone, I am very, very glad to be back on LinkedIn Live, and I have a very special guest today, Commander Jim Wilsie, retired commander in the U.S. Navy Reserve. Very excited to see you, sir. How are you doing?

Doing great. Yeah, I assume you are as well.

Yes, and thank you so much for reaching out. I have so many mentors in the Navy. You're now one of them. I just got picked up for command. I had a lot of questions, and you've been a commanding officer twice now in the Navy Reserve, and thank you so much for all of the tips you have given me. Can you tell us more about your leadership journey, how you came to join the Navy and rise through the ranks?

Well, it started, you know, off, it was actually a recruiter in high school because I was taking a physics class and they advertised the nuclear, you know, nuclear power. And, uh, you know, I was wanting to, you know, I was trying to figure out what I was wanting to do with life and it looked like, okay, well, it's something I can learn, a good skill. And then I have, you know, and then, you know, something I can use if whether I stayed in the Navy or whether I didn't stay in the Navy. So after that, I did enlist, delayed entry program, became a nuclear machinist mate, you know, mechanic, and did that. And then I put in for officer programs. I had gotten through the training, got to the USS Enterprise, which was an aircraft carrier, and I was there for about 8 months. But I found out about 4 months into it that, uh, that I got accepted for Navy ROTC. So I went to Navy ROTC at Tulane, then I got commissioned, went through all the, uh, officer Navy nuke schools, went to, uh, uh, USS Rhode Island, which was a submarine out of Kings Bay, Georgia. Then from there, taught Navy Nuclear Power School for 2 years. Then that's where I split from active duty. That was in 2004. Went to at the time Florida Power and Light to be a control room supervisor and get my, uh, what they call a senior act operator license so I could do it officially and legally, stay out of trouble. But essentially turn lights on when— if you really boil it down. And then from there I joined Navy Reserve as well. Literally, I left the Navy after I left active duty. Um, into reserve. Literally that quick of a transition. Had a unit out of Orlando, and then actually very early on I was, uh, selected for Lieutenant Commander but wouldn't even, uh, put it on yet. I got my first CO job. It kind of happened by surprise. I put the apply board. They said, uh, would you take something not on your list? I said sure, and then end up with the security unit out of Gulfport, Mississippi. And I'm thinking What have I got myself into here? Because— and I'd had a little bit of it, kept falling into it too. I was also the physical security force protection officer because it was a ballistic missile submarine as well. So I had a little bit of experience there, but it was one of those things that turned out to be probably the funnest 2 years I had in the— had in the reserve, quite frankly. We did lots of really neat missions and stuff like that. And then I got my second CO tour, was in, uh, it's out of Cincinnati, NOSC, but, or Navy Operational Support Center. And then, but we drilled at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, so had a good relationship with the Air Force. So we would do some projects for them, in return they would let me have access to their big machine shop. So to do, uh, and, you know, we got to do some neat things. Now, our gaining command was the, uh, was it starting to be the MRS land? You got two submarine tenders still left, that the Frank Cable. So, uh, long story short, he had a, uh, gaining command in Guam, and we provided lots of repair support. And on top of that, uh, we created a guard shack that you could build, but a portable guard shack. Literally, uh, no piece weighed more than 25 pounds. Two people could put it together in about 30 minutes. Wow, it was a neat thing, that neat cool stuff we had to do. Then from there I went to, uh, was in a unit out of Tampa. It was the— where we went to, uh, Bahrain for, uh, duty. So I got to do, uh, two international mine countermeasures exercises. So I got to actually work— is unclassified— so I got to work at about 40 different navies literally sitting in the same room as me. So that It was great, great experience. Learned a lot, learned a lot, uh, you know, culturally too, you know, just a simple fact that, uh, like for example, had a Pakistani Navy officer told me, all right, here's— we're, we're our good allies with Saudis. Here's what you have to deal with, you know, and he, he wanted me to get ahead of situations, you know, ahead of time, and it worked out really well. So he gave me probably the best advice ever to handle that type of thing. And then the last— my last year in the Reserve, I got to facilitate senior officer leadership and advanced officer leadership courses. And that was, uh, I guess a chance to kind of impart what I've learned. But then again, on top of that, I probably learned just as much from each session that we facilitated than I taught. So Uh, wow.

Yeah, that is quite, uh, fascinating. Please go ahead.

So the lesson there is the leadership is a journey. You're going to keep learning more and more stuff. If you think you know it all, you don't. In fact, the more I learn about it, the more I realize I don't.

Yes, that is true. I think that Socrates said something similar to that. Really, really quite, uh, fascinating. Because to me, the US Navy, probably all of the branches of the military, we are really a leadership organization, right? We just happen to have a bunch of weapons. And, uh, leadership was pretty important from day one. Even when you are the most junior person in the entire Navy, it's like they drill leadership, uh, into you. So what, what was your experience like? What was your initial rank as, uh, enlisted, and why specifically did you want to join the Navy and serve in that capacity?

Well, with the enlisted, it was, uh, it was a thing where it was just was going to be, uh, I saw it as a win either way. It's one of those things where, you know what, I, you know, I've had some family that had been military as well, so definitely wasn't opposed to it. Thought it was a, you know, good, good way to get a good start in life. And I figured if things worked out well, I'd stay, and if not, I had a good trade to, you know, to do later. So, so I ended up kind of doing a hybrid. And you think about it, I mean, I ended up retiring as reserve and it was a great, great experience. But, but what I did was, uh, you know, I got— is really has, uh, segued into a good civilian career because that's what I still do now. In fact, I just finished getting another license in Mississippi to run that plant. So that was a lot of work, but it's been a very good, uh, very good career. I started out as an E3, so it'd be a, uh, C, or actually fireman in my case. But, uh, and then, uh, made it to Petty Officer Second Class. And then from there is when I got the opportunity to get the commission.

Wow. That is, that is, that is quite, uh, fascinating. And, uh, what was your motivation to go from, uh, enlisted to, uh, ensign, to go through the commission program?

What was that again?

What was your motivation to go from enlisted to officer? So I guess you are a true Mustang.

Yeah, well, actually, some people say I'm not just because I would have the ROTC time, and LDO is going to tell you that I'm not, I'm not a purebred and I'm not a Mustang either. So I'm, I'm so— I don't know what I am, but, uh, no.

Well, you, you are a hero to me anyway, but yeah, yeah, fascinating.

Yeah, it's fascinating. So when you talk to the warrant officers and LDOs, they, they don't claim me, but that's It's fine though. It's, we have fun. We actually have fun with that. But, but no, the probably the biggest reason I wanted to do that is I just felt like I could do a bigger role. I've always kind of ended up in leadership roles, even when I didn't seek it out when I was younger. It just kind of happened. It was almost like it would happen, happen. I'd fall into the role and it would kind of like that. And I just got used to doing that and it felt natural. Me. I don't know if it makes any sense to you, but it was just a natural fit for me. In fact, people will tell me, they're like, yeah, this— I couldn't imagine you doing other things. You just— this is what you, you do.

Well, that is, that is quite something. And during the transition, right, from, I think you said, Petty Officer Second Class to ensign, was there any awkward moment with some of your former colleagues or even chiefs, people who used to How do you think that you all of a sudden just jumped up to the chain of command?

Yeah, I don't know if I would necessarily— it was awkward, but it was, uh, interesting. In fact, uh, one of the— my— that submarine I went to was, uh, I went to boot camp with, uh, one of the people on there, and I also went to A-school with another person, you know, there. So that was a little, uh Not a little, probably maybe a little weird at first, but it really didn't stay, you know, stay weird, but it was neat. Now, the fact that I keep running into people here and there.

Wow.

You know, knew me as Junior Enlisted.

So as a junior officer in the Navy, what do you think kind of helped you be successful? So if If today you had to talk back to the former you when you were an ensign or JG, like what advice would you have for a J.O. just getting started as an officer?

I would say biggest thing is you got to learn how to take care of your people. And you're going to also, but you got to be a little forgiving too, because sometimes you'll have the best intentions and you will try to do the right thing and it just doesn't go. And you just have to, you have to, you know, accept that and move on. Realize you're going to make some mistakes in that area. But, but I will tell you, if people know you generally care for them and generally, uh, to, you know, look to take care of them in their best interests, it'll, it'll come back to you tenfold. How, you know, not that you do it for that reason, but it comes back tenfold. It always has. I've never regretted doing that. Yeah. Are you going to find a couple of people here and there that might try to take advantage? Yes. So that's going to happen. But, but if you were to take the whole, I've probably gained more than I've given. At least I feel that way.

Wow. That is very good. I think that's really the essence of leadership, right? Taking care of your people first and foremost. But like in the Navy, we say, right, uh, mission first, people always. And, uh, so in total, how many years of service did you have before you retired?

Uh, I had what would be known as just under 22 qualifying years.

Wow, that is a lot. And you went from seaman or fireman all the way up to commander, which is being a senior officer in the U.S. Navy. I believe that it's less than 2% of people who join the Navy end up as commander. And, uh, Bob, how was that for you going from Lieutenant Commander to selection to Commander?

Well, for, for me, it was, uh, kind of the nat— to me, it was almost a natural transition just because the simple fact was it was, uh, you know, to me it was just, uh, time. I was almost like, okay, here we, here we go. And I was, uh, you know, ready to go with that. So Seemed like it took forever being a select.

Yes.

You know, wait, waiting that, waiting that amount of time. But for me, the transition was just something I welcomed just from the start. I know sometimes that, you know, at times can be rough because you are, you do have to look at things from a different mindset a lot of times in different positions. But I've had a lot of experience of that in my civilian career because there's 3 different positions I can fill. With the qualifications I have. One, you're overall in charge, and then there's another one where you're more of an advisor and you have to shift that mindset. And it's not always easy because, you know, you get used to doing certain things. But, uh, before, as the, uh, commander, it was really for me, if you really want to boil it down, it was just taking things— okay, I've done leadership at this level, now it's time to do it on a bigger platform.

Wow. And something about, um, being, uh, in charge, especially in the Navy, right? There is no job more rewarding, challenging, or higher than being a commanding officer. And you had the opportunity to do it twice. So how was it for you to transition from being like a department head to commanding officer?

Well, for me, for me in particular, it was, uh, it was, uh, it I found it to be a better fit. I know, you know, and in fact, sometimes later on in the career when I would do jobs that wasn't the CO, I had to almost force myself to stay in my lane. My job, I just got so used to being able to, you know, just pick it up. It's really not being in charge that I think about. It's more like, okay, I see something that's necessary and somebody's got to run it. It's time to, time to go. So actually it was a better fit for me than it was as a, uh, not— I, you know, did well as an apartment head and things like that, but it just seemed a more natural fit. I don't know if that's a good way to explain it, but that's how it felt to me.

Wow, that is, that is great. And also, once you joined the Reserve, right, I'm assuming you had a full-time, uh, civilian job and doing the Reserve. And so many people in the Navy Reserve, you know, they also go to school, they have family, kids, and so forth. How was it like life-work balance or life-work integration?

I can't say that I always did the greatest job of life-work balance. In fact, you know, it did, you know, cause stresses and strains at times. But what I would say is that, you know, you're going to have to— each season in life is going to be a little bit different and you're going to have to, you know, correct. So a lot of times certain things do that are important still do go by the wayside and it does cause some, some conflict here and there. But, but by and large, if you, if you're doing the right things and, and, you know, your family, your unit, whoever will give you a little bit of, a little bit of leeway when things are a little bit out of balance. It's very easy to let it slip and I have done it many times.

Yes, yes indeed. So before we get into my 7 favorite questions, the last question I have for you: what would you advise a new commanding officer select? What is there to look out for? What tips would you have?

Right, so, uh, the biggest things is gather as much insight from the outgoing as possible and then meet with your gaining command leadership because a lot of them you know, depending on their experience, they may have very little experience dealing with reserves. So, uh, and some of them unfortunately have had negative experience. Now, some have had positive experience, but the bottom line is you got to understand what the expectations are, what's— what they expect you to do. And, uh, now we'll see at the Gaining Command, I do what I call like I divide the time into thirds. So if I get a 30-minute meeting with them or I'm going to make sure I only use 10 minutes of me talking because they're going to have lots of questions that are going to take the other time. So you need to spend— you may even need to spend an hour or two to get it concise, to, you know, get that done properly. And then you have to meet with the Navy Operational Support Center commanding officer because, uh, unfortunately with the Navy Reserve, their goals aren't aligned with the unit mission. They are there for what the reserve was built for to begin with, and that's more of a strategic, being able to mobilize roles. So, so that is always going to be a source of conflict, and the earlier you can get out ahead of it and earlier you can, uh, you know, work with that NACIO to help, you know, understand what you have to do as a mission for your unit and yet do all the things that keep your unit readiness numbers where they need to be.

Yes.

Then, uh, get to know everybody in the unit as quick as you can because, uh, you just— it's hard to advise somebody or to, to try to give them the right development opportunities you don't know what they're trying to do, you know. And it's easy to fall in the trap, well, I did the— these things and this is my path. Well, two things wrong with that. One is that's a different person you're dealing with, and two is it's a different time and place. So what may have been great to do 20 years ago might be a bad idea now. Maybe it's a dying field or whatever. So it takes a lot to do this. You have to learn to do that. And then also, uh, you have to learn to advise— have, have other people help you advise them. Like, for me, if they're going to ask me how to do IT stuff and how to do an IT career, I'm like, I'm gonna have to send you to you, or got a couple other friends of mine in the Reserve as well who have done that in their civilian careers. So that's who I call. I'm like, hey, can you talk to, to this young lady here who is interested in, you know, IT, or whatever it is, you know. It's so, uh, you're not gonna have all the answers, and sometimes you'd have to find other people you know to help them on their journey.

No, that is, that is so, so key. I've had a lot of great commanding officers throughout my career in the Navy, but there are a few of them I feel like, right, I will follow them wherever they, they lead because I really felt a real connection. Like, they really, really cared about me, the individual, not just accomplishing the, uh, the, um, mission and not just telling me, oh, I care about all of you guys, and then do something that clearly shows that they don't care about you. But, uh, those, those few people who really, uh, follow, follow through and they really care about your well your well-being before. No, they already put people first before the, uh, mission. I'm like, no, when I grow up, I want to be just like, uh, like them. And, and I think that's really what the essence of leadership is all about. Uh, all right, so, uh, my, uh, 7 favorite questions. Number 1, uh, what is the greatest lesson you have learned?

Treat people as individuals. Uh, you know, A lot of people were taught what was called the Golden Rule: treat others like you'd like to be treated. Well, uh, that didn't always work. Everybody's just, uh, everybody is different. People are going to respond to different things. Different things are going to be important to them than it is to me and you and or whoever. It's just every— everybody is different in that respect. And if you just— if you don't see them as individuals, you will miss many, many opportunities to help. It just, you know, you can't put people in cookie cutters. Every person has unique hopes, desires, all that stuff. And, uh, and that's why, like, you take football team or whatever, not everybody looks the same and they're not gonna because you don't want the same. You need a different skill set for your offensive lineman than you do for a defensive back, you know, or something like that. So we're also different for a reason because a lot of times we can use that to play to, you know, You know, to really multiply, you know, we're using each other's strengths and then help compensate for each other's blind spots.

Wow. So as a commander in the Navy Reserve and twice selected to be commanding officer, what do you think was the secret of your success?

Well, Trying to think. Probably the biggest thing I can tell you with just— I don't have like, I wouldn't say call it any one secret, but you're gonna have a lot of naysayers no matter what you do. There's always gonna be people saying you can't do this or, oh, the guy before you failed, so you're gonna fail and blah, blah, blah. So I've learned to use those kind of things as a motivation. Instead of a hindrance. That's probably the biggest one I can, I could, uh, give you for that.

Wow, that is, that is, uh, very, very good because not everybody has your best interest in, in mind too. I think was it Nelson Mandela who said, "It's impossible until it is done." And, uh, yeah, so what is the greatest leadership advice you have ever received, you think?

People don't know how much— don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

Yes, yes, yes. I've heard my mentor, Dr. John Maxwell, say that, but I believe it originally came from— I've heard Oprah say that too. Anyway, but it is true. Really caring about people, really, really caring about people makes a big difference. Like, I don't know if you've heard, there was a CEO fired like 900 people, I think, on his Zoom call, like 3-minute Zoom call. It was very popular online like last week or the week before. It's like, yes, I do care about you guys, but oh, by the way, you are fired, don't you come back to work. It's like, well, I don't really think you do. But leadership, I guess, is not exactly like a science, but maybe it's a mixture of science and art. Just being able to deal with people and influence them, uh, to do the right thing in their personal development and for the, uh, the organization. So how, how would you describe being a leader but really dealing with, um, people?

Describe that? Well, to me, I consider it an investment. I mean, when you, when you deal with people, you really need to invest. It sounds crazy because everybody thinks of that like financial or whatever invest, but you're investing in the person. You invest in the person, it, it really does. And you, and if you want to put in financial terms, you get great return on your investment. You really do.

That is, that is so true. Yeah. And it takes time too, right, to build the relationship and, uh, to gain trust, trust and confidence. It does.

It really does.

Yeah. Because I feel like when I first joined the Navy, some of the commanding officers I had, like, almost 17 years ago, it was almost like, you know, I am the skipper, I am in charge, you do it because I said so. But then I saw some other commanding officers, they weren't loud, they weren't shouting or anything, but they had that leadership presence. It's like, you know, I care about you, and it's almost like they motivate you to do the right thing without shouting, without telling you I am the boss, but everybody knows he or she is the the boss, but they didn't have to say it. And I feel like that is so, so powerful.

It is. And those people, you can see, you can tell right away.

It's—

yes.

I still remember I was working at McDonald's in high school, and then this lady regional manager came in. She didn't say a whole lot, but I knew she was in charge. No doubt. I mean, there was She didn't have to say anything.

That is, that is so awesome when, when that happens. So my second question, uh, what are you learning now?

Uh, right now I'm working on, uh, so I came through a very busy season in life, so right now I'm working on reducing bodily inflammation via the diet specifically tailored to the individual. And, and the gist of that is what you'll do is that A lot of people familiar with foods that would make you allergic, you know, have like a, you know, immediate bad reaction. But nowadays there's the technology to test for things that cause an irritant to your body, but it's not something you may notice right away or even notice at all. Or you may even— you may have a condition, you have no idea why it's happening, you're itchy or whatever it is all the time. So what you do is they can test to see what your body's reactive to as well. And, uh, so I've done that recently and, uh, working on, uh, changing the diet, having to give up some favorite foods. Like, for example, I have to give up cranberry sauce for Thanksgiving because cranberry I react to. So it's one of those type of things there. So it's just a big— I know it sounds, uh, off topic for leadership, but in my case, uh, there's a— I've just joined a new operating crew and a lot of people people are, uh, in my line of work, uh, do not— health is not prioritized. And there's a lot of people operating crew that is starting to prioritize their health. So it's good to do that along with them.

Absolutely. Actually, I think one of the leadership principles, right, you have to take care of your body, your health, emotional health included, right?

Yes.

Like I've always said, now, if it wasn't for the Navy, I would have never been fit. I remember the first time I had to run a mile and a half. I've never run a mile and a half in my life. I thought I was going to die. I'm like, what in the world? But yeah, I mean, I just kept practicing, practicing, practicing, and then you kind of have to, right? And yeah, it looks like there is a connection between spirit, mind, and body. If you don't have a good body, and this is the only body you've got, right? I remember at one point I was having some issues with my back. Like nothing else mattered, right? It's like if you have any issue with your body, it's like, you know, this is the most important thing in life, and it really, really is, right? And I know many people think about, you know, what is urgent, and they always think of what's urgent, but they forget about what is important. But maybe not urgent, but important nonetheless. So your health is definitely extremely, extremely important. Yeah, you only get one life to live, right? So, uh, what is the greatest investment you have made in yourself? I know you've invested a lot in other people and people who served And do you?

For me, it's been, uh, well, wellness and health. Um, I took leadership classes while I was doing an MBA at the Citadel while I was teaching Navy nuke school and had a, uh, two— had a Marine two-star come in and his one advice too is like, you need to take care of your health. He goes, if you want to have a long career, no matter it is what you're doing, he goes, most people whose careers go shorter. You know, a lot of people think, okay, athletic career, you have to take care of yourself, but it works for all careers. So, uh, you know, that really did stick with me. And, you know, to, uh, take care of that, whereas in my early life it was all due to athletic stuff to perform better, but now it's to, uh, you know, to do that. So I can't do any of the other things if that fails.

That is so true. And, uh, in the military, I know I've never ever— I don't know if you have, but I've never ever, ever seen a senior Marine officer obese or fat, ever. Now, for the Navy, that's something else. The Army, yes, yes, that's so sure. But, uh, taking care of your physical health is so important and critical, uh, because really without it you don't have anything, right?

Right, right. You, you really don't, because then becomes a sole focus. You can't focus on anything else. Kind of like that Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you know, you need to be healthy to worry about any of the other stuff as you go up the pyramid that's drawn.

Yes, that is so true. So question number 3, how has failure shaped your life?

Develop the ability to learn each lesson from each failure because the thing about it is it's trying to tell you something. You know, whether you believe in spiritual deity or not, it is happening and is trying to tell you, you need to change your approach. Do I need to do soul searching? Do I need to change life direction? Do I have vulnerabilities on what I'm doing and techniques? Like in athletics, you know, a lot of times I learn my vulnerabilities, you know, like hitting baseball in batting practice. You may not realize you have a hitch in your swing until somebody throws the ball really hard and you don't catch up to it. You have to change your approach. Now, it's a simple example, but the idea is that you learn— you have to learn to take the lessons for those, as painful as they are sometimes.

Yes, that is, that is so true. Are you open to share about what you believe is like your greatest failure so far? Because one thing I have noticed is, uh, most people, they only look at the good, positive things, right? Oh, this person is so talented, they they are— it's almost like everything they touch turns into, into gold. But the reality is, for you to be successful, you have to go through a lot of failures, right?

And, uh, one of my biggest failures is trying— trying— is I, I failed in taking care, care of my people, and it wasn't due to lack of effort. In fact, if anything, I, I, uh, tried a little too hard and pushed in the wrong direction. What it was, I was trying to, uh, get— it was a security unit, and I was trying to get them into some training, and I, and I felt the, uh, command in charge of that training was giving me the runaround. So I pushed a little too hard, and I think I angered them, so they made it their mission to not let them get that training. So that was awfully embarrassing, and I had to tell them, hey, you're not going to school because I screwed up.

Yes, yes, uh, really the, the way you learn to treat people, all, all people. Like I said, it's not really a science, but it's more like an art that I think people eventually figure out that you really, really care. But yes, thank you, thank you for sharing that. So yeah, question number 4: who do you know whom we should know? Who are some of your mentors or thought leaders you are following now?

Well, uh, especially, uh, in this case it was the same unit actually. Is my— he was my SEL and he's also a retired law enforcement. His name is George Chais. It's been spelled, uh, it's French last name, so spelled C-H-A-I-X. But, uh, I tell you what, given that around, around the country there's been a lot of, uh, you know, animosity to how like law enforcement has been carried out. Well, this guy is the example of how you do it right.

Wow.

Big example how you do it right. For example, we did, uh, they did the USS New Orleans commissioning. This is in 2007. It was in downtown New Orleans near the aquarium. And, uh, there was a lot, you know, a lot, you know, a lot going on, of course, you know. And, uh, anyway, uh, we basically were playing clothes with NCIS outer, and then you had like a Navy security that was fenced in by the ship. And, uh, so anyway, the day of the commissioning, of course you're always going to have some protesters, and they had— we, we had some. And, uh, he like diffused the situation before it could even become a situation. So he literally just comes up and, you know, his plain clothes, and just introduced himself, and he just simply goes Y'all gonna play nice, we're gonna play nice. He goes, and just from there, there was no, you know, there was no issues. It was that, that simple. Like, you know, just to get out ahead of that, you know, stuff like that. So, and he's done many, many other examples of that type of stuff. So, you know, it's almost like he's got a gift to like, you know, get rid of a problem before it even happens.

It was, you know, wow, that is really amazing because I really believe like the number one characteristic for a good leader is leading by example. People won't always do what you say, but they will always do what you do and follow you. Actually, it works with children also. I remember I'm a father of two girls, and if I don't do what I'm saying, then they will not even listen. But they always watch their parents, at least in my experience. So if, if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, who would you choose and why? They don't have to be alive, they could be historical figures as well.

Yeah, well, I, I do have, do have that. The first one is, is a lesser-known, uh, Mac Robinson. That was actually the nickname. It was actually Matthew McKenzie Robinson, and, uh, his younger brother was the famous one, that was Jackie Robinson.

Zinga.

Yeah, baseball player. Well, also he, uh, was on the same track team with Jesse Owens in the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

Wow.

In fact, uh, if it weren't for Jesse Owens, he would have been the world record holder in the 200 meters. He, uh, they both broke the old world record. He got the silver and Jesse Owens got the gold. Wow. So, and on top of that, he, he lived a longer lifespan. He lived to be 85 years old, whereas Jackie Robinson was only— he was in his early 50s when he had, uh, he had passed along. So, so really it's almost me cheating on this little—

that's good.

You say 3 people, well, now I'm using 1 and I get 3 out, out of that, uh, particular person. That, that he's got to also had a longer lifespan. He lived from, I believe, it's like 1914 to like 2000. So he has seen lots of, uh, you know, lots of a change. So, you know, so then it would be things like asking, okay, you know, how far have we come? And then have you seen all this? Now what do we still need to do? And I think he would have a lot of insight in that, you know, because he has lived you know, a span of that. And, you know, the Berlin Olympics, that was very controversial. And, uh, we'll put this way, Hitler was none pleased that, yes, all that, all that happens. So, uh, so, so in any case, you know, that's how I get— that's how I get there. And I do have, uh, two others, uh, Roger Staubach, who was Navy as well. So really for him is three reasons. He He had, he had to have leadership success over a long time and over different, wildly different areas. So Vietnam War, so he's in that. Then goes to, goes to the NFL and did very well there. And then on top of that, until recently, he was the basically highest, richest athlete ever, and he made most of his money after he spoke Yeah, he was somewhere in the neighborhood about $600 million. Now, oh, I think LeBron James eclipsed that now, but you know what I mean. So he did all this stuff for all these years, so he has— he's got to have some good leadership to do all that.

Nice.

So very, very big one there. And then my, uh, and I got one other, it'd be, uh, Vice Admiral Braun retired. She was the first female chief of the Navy Reserve. And on top of that, even before, even when she was Captain Braun, I never got the opportunity to meet her, but even when she was Captain Braun, I heard great, great things about her. Everybody wanted to work for her. They said she was a great leader, great, great one to work with. That and Also, she had to navigate some stuff with leadership. Pretty tough. When I first got that last job in the Reserve teaching the leadership courses, the Gaining Command for that was being, uh, dismantled—

take—

dissolved all the way. It was a Center for Personal and Professional Development, and they were like, okay, we're going to reduce your billet down to a year, and they may be we may be done with this. And she's like, no, we are not done with it. Leadership is one of my, one of my top 5 priorities. So, uh, she navigated to where the, uh, they got, got put into leadership and ethics under the Navy War College in Rhode Island to continue that leadership program. So, you know, with a lot of financial pressures to, to chop leadership training, she fought against it and won.

Awesome. Wow. Yeah, really a living legend for sure. It's, it's really quite amazing. I, I really feel like the, the Navy really gives a lot of chances to— let me just put it this way— it's more, much more diversified than most of the workforce I have ever, ever seen. Uh, and, uh, wow, this, that is, that is, that is quite Amazing. So for question number 5, what have you read that we should read? What is, uh, what are some of the, the best books you've read recently?

Yeah, well, uh, I would call the one is How Full Is Your Bucket. I don't know if you're familiar with that. It was by, uh, Tom Rath and Donald Clifton, and it's basically all about trust and establishing trust. Um, and another thing is they actually quantified some stuff. Like, for us, you need to have— like they said, you need to have a minimum of 5 positive interactions for every one that's either neutral or negative, each person to have a good trusting relationship. So they also gave it, you know, an anecdote about, uh, Vietnam War. There was, uh, you know, some people got captured and, you know, became prisoners of war, and the trust was so low, was, uh, there was a colonel who told a junior enlisted person to, uh, hey, don't eat that food, you're gonna get sick. And the trust was so little, he's like, well, we're POWs now, you're not in charge here anymore. Unfortunately, I did get dysentery and die. And you know, they're, you know, seeing how, you know, unfortunate is that, whereas if you had trust, that could have been prevented, that type of thing. In the second author, Donald Clifton, he wrote this as he knew he was dying. So this was like, he wanted— it was important to get that work out, as you know, so he, you know, before he passed on.

Hmm.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. And by the way, I am adding the link on Amazon to this book. This way people could purchase it. A lot of people who do follow me read quite a bit Thank you. And, uh, my next question then is, um, number 6, uh, what have you done that we should do? What is one action you have taken that has positively impacted your life?

Yeah, well, it goes back to what I talked about a little bit earlier about learning to utilize the naysayers as a source of inspiration instead of a hindrance. That I, I think that is because you're always going to have that there's always going to be somebody who will tell you you can't. I mean, just look at, look at some of the greatest NFL football players. They got people every day on TV talk shows telling them they're not going to do this and they're going to get beat and blah, blah, blah.

Yes.

A lot of them have learned to do the same thing. So that's the, that would be the one I would, would say right there. Don't let people You figure out if you can't do it or not. Don't let someone else tell you you can't do it or not.

That is, that is so true. I think it's a great secret for success around the world. Yeah, for sure. So if you only had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Well, let as many people know that they were, that they're loved and what they did mattered, and be making as many phone calls as possible to to, yeah, to let them know that. I mean, that's really, uh, at that point, I'd, I'd, uh, call till it was, uh, over.

Wow.

Probably when he fell asleep.

Yes, I, I think that is so important. So the very final question, uh, how can we add value back to you? How can we make a difference?

Yeah, uh, pay it forward, you know. That's, that's the thing a lot of people have asked me, you know, if I'll help them out, they're like, well, how can I repay us? I said, you help the next person that needs it. You know, there's going to be some person that may remind you of you or somebody, or your sister, whoever it could be, and go ahead and help them out. Don't worry about me, help somebody else.

Well, you've heard it from the commander. Thank you so much, Commander Jim Wilsey. Really appreciate your time on the show. I think it's very inspirational and, uh, uh, Thank you so much. So this was, uh, Bizzy from Silicon Valley. Until next time, bye.

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Bizzy. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.