S4:E106 🎙️LIVE with 2X Bestselling Author Mita Mallick (Multi Tracks Audio)

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Hmm.

I'll pick a controversial view, which is, um, anti-hustle culture. Like, I'm not embarrassed to say I'm sleeping at midnight. Like this idea that we normalize burning people out. It's just not possible. And let me say this, I have a book launching in less than 30 days. Believe me when I say I'm working my butt off. I am. But I can't do that 24/7, right? And so the foundation of good leadership is like resting, God forbid sleeping well, eating well, taking care of yourself, exercising so you can show up and do great work. And I think we're just at odds with that, particularly sort of hustle culture being celebrated in many ways. And I'm not saying that there aren't moments of your life you're going to lean in, of course, but if that's constantly the way we're training people and believing we can, it's just going to end in a way we don't want it.

All right, everyone. Hello. Uh, just a second. Okay, here we go. All right, thank you so much for being here. This is Coach Bizzy, and I'm so glad that you are with us. We're going to have a really, really packed session today, and thank you for watching us live on LinkedIn and on YouTube. First, I want to say, if you have a question for my guest, please type it in the comment. I also want to know, uh, where you are joining us from, what city, what state, and if outside of the US, which country. And also, I want to know what you are grateful for. So let's do what we do in the show. As is our custom, we are going to take a moment to be grateful. And again, I do this every time we meet because in the military, it's about, uh, 22 veterans who commit suicide every single day. And I think it's impossible to be grateful and be suicidal at the same time. So if you would just take a moment, if you want, you can close your eyes, take a deep breath, and just take a moment to think, what are you grateful for today? And I think today I am really grateful for my network. One of my mentors told me, right, my network is my net worth. And I'm so glad for people like Mita Malik who's here today. She's in the building and she's gonna be sharing her knowledge and expertise with all of my 64,000+ audience, and I'm so, so grateful for that. So let us know in the comment what you are grateful for. And let me see if I can do it justice. I'm going to try to introduce Mita, which everybody should already know. She's quite incredible. Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and LA Times bestselling author, Thinkers50 writer leader, and LinkedIn top voice. So we're going to be having a powerful conversation about her brand new instant bestseller, which is The Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad Bosses. We don't have much time, so we're gonna get to it. Ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome the bestselling author, Mita Malek. Hello, good afternoon, Mita. How are you doing today?

Good. Thanks for having me on your show. I'm so excited. What a welcome.

Absolutely. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm so glad that you are here. So excited. Maybe to get started, can you let us know, um, what are you grateful for today? Just one thing.

I'm grateful for my children.

Yeah. Yes, yes, man, that's really what counts in life, doesn't, doesn't it? And, uh, for people who may not know you, what is something about you that most people may not know?

I pose as an extrovert. I'm socially selective introverted. I spend most of my week weekends on my couch. And wow, it's my mom, my husband. Yeah, I like doing things in like very small group settings, although I'm, you know, for what I am, my important mission in life to fix what's broken in our workplaces, I'm out and about a lot. But I actually really like to be in my home.

Wow, that is really incredible. I think most people I have interviewed and talked to are introverts. Believe it or not, I am an introvert too, but, uh, I, I do need to, uh, Show up when I need to, but it just takes a lot of energy. But yeah. Wow. Okay. Okay. Great to know. So, uh, great, great welcome. So before we dive into your new book, um, I wanna ask you, can you take us back a bit? Uh, what inspired your journey from being that young girl who didn't see, uh, faces like yours, right, in media to become one of today's most influential voices on inclusion and leadership?

Exclusion's a powerful force, isn't it? But inclusion's even more powerful.

Wow.

A lot of my childhood wondering who had the power of the pen, who gets to be on the cereal box, who gets to be on a billboard, right? Like, who gets— who's chosen? Our stories are worth telling. Who decides if they're worthy? That question still haunts me today. And so for me, both as a marketing and HR executive, inclusion's a driver of the business full stop. There's a lot of backlash, whether it's in the U.S. or globally against diversity, equity, inclusion. Inclusion is a driver of the business retention tool. Inclusion is the reason I show up to work. If I feel like I belong, if I feel like I'm making impact, I'm going to be really happy to be there. And it's going to be a joyous place to work. And isn't that— wow, joy at work. What a concept.

Wow, that is Quite, quite powerful. Can you say that again? I love that. You said exclusion is a powerful force, but inclusion is even more powerful.

Even more powerful.

Absolutely.

Wow. Here's the thing. I think we've lost the plot when it comes to inclusion in our workplace. Inclusion means I work for you. I feel valued. I feel seen. I feel recognized. My voice matters. My contribution matters. I will tell you the worst moments of my career is I've been going into work and I'm like, does anyone even know I'm here? Wow. Do they know what I do? But imagine if I feel like I have a voice, a seat at the table, I'm making impact. Most people come to work for a paycheck. Some of us have found some sort of purpose, but that's the retention tool. You know, that's why people stay is they feel like they can make a difference. Yes, they're earning a living, but it's like, hey, I feel like I'm— people need me here, right?

True.

There's some— I'm part of something bigger. And that's the biggest retention tool. It's not you know, fancy snacks, oversized hoodie, don't send me all these things, ping pong table, pizza party, ever. It is about feeling like you can make impact, that everybody has a shot to make impact in the workplace.

That is, that is really quite powerful. I mean, I want to think back for my own career. I know in the military the mission is pretty big. Everybody feels like they have something worthy to do, sometimes bigger, a mission bigger than ourself. But, but you are the best leaders I've ever had, are the leaders who made me feel like even I wasn't just a number, right? But I was important even to the mission, but I had a very critical, uh, uh, play thing, thing to do. So how did those early experiences you, you just described, or you feeling unseen, kind of shape your leadership philosophy today?

I really want to be in service of other people. I think about that a lot. Yeah, I think the, the workplace I grew up in I was trying to get a glass corner office with the city view. Hopefully there was a bathroom, couch, minibar. You know, I get to look out and see all the people who work for me, right? It's the pyramid. I was at the top, right? And that was the view. And, and that was the goal. And now it's about being in service of each other and being in coach mode. Don't kick people when they're down. Help them get up. Don't do their work for them. Coach them, teach them, train them. I think those are some of how the best teams perform. And I'm very much in that season of my life where I'm thinking, how can I be in service of each other. There's this whole idea where it's like, people report into me. What if you report into them? What if we all reported to each other? And I know some of this is like, people are listening and they're like, there's hierarchy in the workplace. I get that. But I think what moves us from being in a bad boss zone to being a good leader and great leader when we have this mindset that we are in service of each other.

Well, that is really quite insightful. Now let's talk about your book.

Oh yes.

Email at Midnight. That's very, very bold. I think part of the reason why you became an instant bestseller is because of the title. Great, great job. But what inspired you to write this book? What's the story behind it?

Yeah, the story behind it is actually— the other thing I'm grateful for is my mom is here visiting me now. So I'm always grateful to spend time with my mother. But a few years ago, her home was flooded and badly destroyed. And she's back, you know, her house is being rebuilt. But anyone who's been in a home that's been ravaged by water or fire. It is devastating. So here I am in my soaked childhood bedroom trying to save things. I have in my office like a soaked Barbie doll I brought back. Like, I had Barbie dolls that I thought were worth something, trophies, medals, pictures, rhymes from elementary school. And in that closet, I found a journal, a notebook. If we meet for coffee someday, you'll see that I always have a notebook with me in my purse. That's how I— sort of observe the world. And I had this notebook from my 20s, and it was— wow, I had vignettes of bad bosses, nicknames for them, all the things they said and did. It was like pages, and it was like, wow, years later reading all the emotion. And so I'm driving away with my mom from her soaked home, our car full of things, and I'm thinking of this notebook. It reminds me of Mean Girls and the Burn Book, if anyone's watching. Yeah, it's like, it's like, okay, what if I'm in someone's notebook? Isn't it easy to paint somebody the Disney villain or the Marvel character? But what if I I'm the bad boss. Now, that's an interesting thought. So, that's how the thought for the book started. And the opening line of the book is, "I've been a bad boss and chances are, so have you." Wow.

That is quite insightful. And I definitely like the emotional intelligence and the introspection because you're not just pointing the finger, but you're actually looking at yourself as well. I think it definitely makes the reader more relatable. To you that you are a real human being with real feelings. And you also self-assess, which is quite powerful. So you write that bad bosses can be our greatest teachers. Why do you believe that?

Because I think about who I needed when I was younger, right? It's really easy to be like, this person was bad and this person was bad. But then you start to think about, okay, how do I not want to act that way? What lesson are they How can I do better and be better for somebody else? I mean, that's the gift in it. If I think about it now, it's strange to say there's a gift in a bad boss, but there are gifts, right? Like, what can you take and how can you be a better leader as a result of having worked for that person?

Now, when I read your book, basically, I think you have about 13 types of bad bosses and you give all of them surnames, which is pretty, pretty cool. Nicknames. So If I may ask, what is one painful or transformative experience with a bad boss that taught you something essential about leadership?

I mean, there's a few, but I would say one of the bosses that I nicknamed Medusa, that's a story that really still sticks with me.

I think I hear a lot about Medusa and Tony, but yes.

Yeah, Medusa and then Tony, Tony Soprano. We can talk about him as well. Nobody until this point in my life, my career, not my parents, not my husband, not my brother, not my friends. I certainly didn't tolerate this in friendships. No one had screamed and yelled at me, like shouted, screamed, yelled at me. So here I am, work for this woman, Medusa. She publicly and privately berates, humiliates people. She's the equal opportunity bully. She goes after everything. She throws tantrums like a toddler. She would toss pens across the conference room. She threw a shot. Colleague. Yeah, true story. I mean, all— and you're just like, wow. So what happens in this moment? Fear drives short-term results. I show up at work scared every day, right? And so there's an adrenaline rush, right? I'm like, I'm just gonna work hard, I'm gonna exceed expectations, and then guess what? She's gonna leave me alone. It didn't matter because I wasn't the issue. My performance wasn't the issue, or the team. It was her, right? But so she still came after us. And so what happens is you start to get tired of being scared. And you— months go by, and then I'm like, just exhausted. And I just decided to do a little less. I start to go under the radar. And it's like that flame on a candle, you start to flicker out. And so fear kills culture in the long term. And that's what I can't understand. I think there is this human need when things are tough from a business perspective, you think you can scare people. Into driving good results. And the end result is you will drive those people out of your organization. No one's going to tolerate that. And I think Tony Soprano in a second loyalty, but I think part of why Medusas existed for so long is because there was loyalty in the workplace. You would give me a paycheck for 2 weeks, once every 2 weeks I'd get paid. I do that for 30 years. I get healthcare, I get pension. I had an uncle who left a company after 30 years, got a gold Rolex. That doesn't happen anymore.

It's like, Yes.

So for that, I'll put up with the bad boss behavior. I'm going to put up with the Chanel shoe throwing boss who throws the shoe because I'm like, oh, I'm getting paid and there's job security. That is— loyalty is dead in the workplace. That doesn't exist anymore. But I do think that's why a lot of these behaviors stayed as long as they did and continue to. But I will tell you, the fear one doesn't— I just don't get how people can operate from a place of trying to scare people. It just boggles my mind. That one boggles my mind to this day.

That is very, very, very sad. Now, in Silicon Valley, where I am, I know our IQ is probably off the chart, but we definitely need to do a lot of work with EQ. A lot of, you know, I don't know, I guess they call them geniuses. They are so, so, so smart. But I really agree with what you are saying. You can be extremely smart and even very productive, but it really matters the way you treat people, just being kind and being a human being. So I don't really understand why jerks like that are still in charge and still leading teams because like somebody else has told me before, most people when they leave jobs, it's not really because of the job, it's because of their boss, their manager. So I guess that's why I really believe your book is so important because it's not just for the unprofessional, but it's really for the people who have the opportunity, the privilege to manage right now. What type of manager are you and what difference you are making, right? Because I guess next question I want to ask you is how can leaders then differentiate between being demanding for excellence versus being destructive in their expectation?

I've fallen into this trap. I used to demand excellence but not teach excellence. Demand excellence. There's a difference. And I see this a lot when people go from being an individual contributor to leading teams for the first time. This happens in tech, right? People are growing really fast, scaling really fast, and not really setting people up for success to coach and lead. Just because I'm really good and have this individual expertise doesn't mean I can teach other people. And so I do think there's a difference. Like, you can demand excellence, but are you being clear in what that means? Coaching, training. I was a notorious micromanager. If you're watching us, and I'm sorry, you worked for me years ago, I was micromanaging you. Maybe you named me Maleficent, right? Like, I demanded excellence, but I didn't teach it. I think there's a real difference there. Real difference.

Wow, man, that little difference can really make a big, big difference just in the culture of the, uh, morale and people wanted to be, uh, at work. Because I've been really, really lucky, and I'm grateful I got to become, you know, a commanding officer in the most powerful Navy in the world. But, uh, one of my highest priorities— I wish I had read your, your book before, but, but, um, no, just based on my experience, you know, the two things I felt like as a commanding officer absolutely needed to pay attention to. Number one is creating an environment where my people would want to come to work in the first place, because I also, uh, I got in command right, right after the, uh, COVID-19 global pandemic. So it was quite a change to have people working from home virtually to then come back to the office. But anyway, so making it attractive for people to want to come back and then once they get there to give me the very best work they can. And that was really what I was focusing on. So in an age of burnout, layoff, hybrid work, what midnight emails do you think leaders are sending literally or metaphorically that may hurt their team morale?

I think it's just, uh, we're all feeling a lack of control. Wherever you're joining us from in the world, there's a real sense of a lack of control on what's happening on a macro level in our personal lives. And what's the best way to find control? It's like, hey, it's at work. If I have people managing me, I can Slack and FaceTime and email and try to get them on the call and micromanage everything and also be sending these emails really late at night because I have anxiety. And I've been guilty of that. I've been the devil who emails at midnight. But I always ask people to ask themselves, and I do this, it's like, I want to get it out of my inbox and onto yours. I want to show that I'm relevant. Like, isn't that our greatest fear? Especially in the marketplace, that we're irrelevant. So keep keeping up with the pace as we embrace AI. I have to work just as fast. And I'm not an AI agent, right? Surprise, I'm human. I can't. It's just going to lead to burnout. Unless, like, here's the thing. I have sold a lot of beauty products in my career, some ice cream and SaaS software. I have never been a 911 operator. I've never been an emergency room medical professional, a firefighter. None of those things that were life and death situations. I've never had anything that's life and death. So why am I sending emails at midnight?

Wow.

Like, why? I'm asking myself this. Like, nothing was that urgent. Because if you are doing something that's life and death, right, you're probably not sending emails at midnight. You are running into that fire.

Yes.

You are in that— you are saving someone's life. And it is something that is quite urgent. But I want people to think about that because what also happens is you stop distinguishing what's urgent versus important. When everything's urgent, nothing is urgent. And you're in this constant fire drill mode. And I want people to think about that. So if you're firing off emails at midnight, and I'm not saying that there's not a moment, like, here's the thing. And we were— I noticed you shared this in like the opening of the show of one of my other talks where I talked about this. I am burning the midnight oil. I have a book that just launched.

Yes.

But that doesn't mean that I understand what drive periods are and the rhythms. And when you're leading people, and I'm sure you've experienced this too in your career, it's like, yeah, there are things that are really mission critical. There might be things that are due for a client and you're going to be driving harder than usual.

Yes.

But the question is, are you then giving your time, your team time to rest and recover? Because we're not Uber Eats, we can't be on demand 24/7. And that's the difference.

Yes. That is so powerful. And something else you had shared, before, which I find so insightful. Even when you go for an interview, right? Paying attention to when they send you emails to show up. And if they send you a bunch of emails around midnight, 1 o'clock in the morning, that means that's exactly what they're going to be expecting of you when you get there. Can you tell us more?

You're supposed to be on your best behavior. You're supposed to court me for the job. So if you're not on your best behavior, then you're not going to be on your best behavior when I join full-time.

Because I think you also mentioned where they didn't even offer you a glass of water and you were there pretty much like, oh yeah, that's, that's my mom.

I give her the credit. She coined it. It's the water test. So I went in to do about 12 interviews for this company, big beauty brand. I was so excited. And it was about 12 interviews, 30 minutes back to back to back to back.

And I thought, that's crazy.

You're crazy, right? Afterwards. And I was like, oh, so they offer you a glass of water? I'm like, no. And she's like, don't take the job. And I'm like, what? This is like the biggest brand. People were lined up. Yeah. Oh, and I was like, mom is crazy. I'm telling you, mom has been right on many occasions, but certainly this occasion, it was a sign of a toxic workplace. Now, now people are like, oh, Mia, that's ridiculous. They didn't offer you a glass of water. You didn't take their— your mom's telling you to take a job. But here's the thing. Think about it this way. You're going in to interview someone. They're welcoming you in, welcoming you into their home. Yes, it should be on their best behavior. It's a movie trailer. I love movie trailers. It's a movie trailer for what it's going to be like to work there. So if they don't offer you a glass of water, if they don't show you where the restroom is, or if they don't say, do you need a break? Where, like, all of these things, you know, think about that. And then there's more, of course, red flags during the interview process of what it might be like to work there. But like, how they're hosting you, watch for those signs as well.

That is quite insightful. So you talk a lot, I think it's about 12, 13 bad bosses. You talked about Medusa. I think the one I relate with the most is Tony Soprano because I definitely had a boss like that. Can you tell us a little bit of what you learned about your Tony Soprano experience?

Yeah, so I hope you all watch The Sopranos, and if not, pretty great show to watch. But Tony Soprano was the boss who could kill your career with one phone call. And it was loyalty at all costs. And I share in The Devil Emails at Midnight, I'm on his team for like what's supposed to be a 1-year assignment. And then as the year comes up and I'm, you know, as you would do in a large organization, networking, trying to figure out where I might move next, he loses his mind.

Hmm.

That I'm talking about my career with other people. You say, You can leave when I say you leave. Who told you that you can be having these conversations?

What?

Right? It was wild, right? And so, and I talk a lot more about sort of the manipulation, the gaslighting, like holding on to the power, like I own your career. And as we talked about earlier, loyalty is dead in the workplace. It needs to be absolutely relooked at. I can only be loyal to you in this project in this moment. And people can be loyal to each other. I was talking to someone about this the other night who said, you know, I agree that loyalty is set in the workplace and also the relationships I've built along the way. That's where the loyalty has been built because now I'm going to work for a great boss of mine, you know, 5 years later at another company. So we think about it that way. But this idea of talent hoarding, which is what Tony Soprano also used to do, many leaders doing, it's like, You— Mita is so indispensable. She's so valuable. She needs to move on from your team, but you're going to do everything you can to keep her.

Yes.

Even if it's the detriment of her career, because it makes you look good. And guess what? At the end of the day, Mita will leave if you keep holding her back.

Yeah, man, thank you so much for sharing that, because I really feel like by reading your book, people really need to be able to set boundaries, right? And this podcast, I've been doing it for 4 years now. I've interviewed almost 200 people. And one of the questions I'm going to be asking you toward the end is, You know, if this was your last day, what would be your final contribution? I've never, never heard the leader tell me, I want to go back to work. I want to make more sales. Never, ever, ever. Almost all of them is what you are thankful for this afternoon, your family, your children. That is what they focus on, their friends, and never about making another sale and going on travel and going to work, especially in Silicon Valley. Like during the pandemic, it was kind of crazy because Everybody started working from home. People felt like, okay, maybe I don't have to commute to work 2 hours anymore. I can just stay home. I'm going to be more productive and life is going to be easy. But what ended up happening is we were much more productive than we were before the pandemic because people were on their computer at midnight working. It's like they didn't have a set schedule, 9 to 5. It's like they would just be working, working, working, Slack, Slack, and work, work nonstop. And many people got burned out during the pandemic than did prior. Which we already had a pretty toxic culture in Silicon Valley anyway. Can you tell us more, I guess, about people listening to us now, what type of boundaries they really should have? Because I think life should be much more than work, right?

Listen, I think people ask me, like, what's the root cause of a bad boss? Like, why do people become a bad boss temporarily? And I believe it's mostly temporarily for most people. I think it's when you're not taking care of yourself. Yourself. And this is the conversation we don't want to have, but it's like, are you sleeping well? Are you exercising? Are you eating? Are you going out, taking walks, spending time with loved ones? Are you stepping away from the keyboard? Because there's this pressure to stay busy and stay productive and to always be producing. And yet we don't take care of ourselves, we can't take care of each other. And that's when all these behaviors show up. So the foundation to good leadership is actually taking care of yourself. And again, going back to those drive periods, I'm not saying that they're not going to be moments where you're going to be launching a product or something happening in the market. You've got like a tight turnaround. But what are you doing after that? It can't be back to back to back. And exactly to what you're saying, then you have all this amazing talent that's just going to either walk out the door or burn out.

Yeah, that is so, so critical. Okay, let me ask you one more question about the book. If you could rewrite the playbook for bad bosses, what would good leadership at midnight look like? I think you already said you sleep at midnight, which is great. But yeah, what does that look like?

I think what it looks like is taking care of myself so I can take care of other people. It also looks like being in coach mode. When's the last time you taught someone something? You trained them? You didn't we do something for them. You didn't make them feel bad about the mistake, but you talked them through, right? Talked them through why this mistake happened and what you can learn from it and what you're going to do differently in the future. I think all of those things, like being in service of each other, and that's actually the loyalty, right? We're not loyal to— no longer loyal to companies, but we're loyal to each other in those moments. And that really matters. That's what good leadership looks like. And here's what people don't get. When you are a good leader or even a great leader, you don't have to call recruiting. You don't have to be worried about talent and roles on your team. They're just going to keep going because your reputation is known. People know you and people want to come work for you. You're going to become a really great magnet for talent.

Okay, I'm going to ask you one more question, this time about diversity and inclusion, because you are a world expert in that. And you even mentioned something similar during the show just about how critical inclusion should be. Right now we are living in America, the trends are going the complete opposite for some reason. But why is inclusion important? Definitely when it comes to driving business, right? Requirements? Because that's the other thing too, because we don't just do inclusion for inclusion's sake, but why should a team be diverse in order to drive business results?

Well, one, it's about the consumers you want to serve. We are now— I'm sitting in the US, but this is a global audience. Think about all the different dimensions of diversity and are you serving them, whether that's veterans, LGBTQ+ community, uh, multicultural consumer, mothers, uh, individuals with disabilities, products and services to enhance the quality of people's lives. So do you have those individuals represented on teams? Do you have access to those insights to create those products? Like, that is competitive advantage, and if you aren't thinking that way, you're going to be left behind. Inclusion is also a driver of productivity. Let's say I work for you, I come into work, I'm so excited. I'm ready to give 100%. Here's what happens. Mita, how'd you learn how to speak English so well? How'd you get rid of your accent? Why did you do your hair today? Your lunch smells funny. You look sad. You look quiet. Are you angry? I can go on and on and on. But all of those comments every day, as Michelle Obama said, you know, my forever First Lady, our forever First Lady. In her book, it's the paper cuts, microaggressions that happen every single day. And I noticed you have it right there. Yeah. It really can have a devastating sense, devastating impact on yourself, right? Over time.

It's like death by a thousand paper cuts.

But what happens is that 100% that I was ready to give, now I'm at 75%. Now I'm at 50%. I don't, I can't do the work. I'm reacting to the environment around me. And then what's gonna happen? You're gonna say, maybe was this like kind of highly recommended from a friend? And you know, she's just gotta put her on a performance improvement plan. I gotta coach her out. She's a poor performer. And then, um, you know, you coached out if I don't resign on my own.

Makes sense.

Imagine if you're in an environment where you can do your best work and it's not just for some people, it's for everybody. We wanna create an environment where everyone can do their best work because then that helps the company reach the potential. It's quite simple.

So true.

We've made it so complicated.

Wow. No, that is really great. Okay, we have about 10 minutes left. Quickly, I'm going to ask you 7 leadership questions.

Number 1.

Buckle up. Yeah, it's going to be really cool. What is the secret of your success? Here you are, expert in diversity with all of these global awards you've received and best-selling author. What made you Mita Malik? Best-selling offer?

Um, I stopped caring what other people think.

Wow, it's powerful. Very good. I like that.

Okay, took a long time, but I'm there.

Yes, yes. Yeah, I guess for me it came when I was about in my 40s or so. It's like, okay, I don't give a care, uh, because no, life, life, life is short. You have to focus on your own dreams and passion. Very good. Okay, what are you learning right now?

How to be a good parent. It's a hard time to raise inclusive and kind human beings. I'm sure every— Wow, said that.

But yeah, thanks so much for saying inclusive and kind children. I think that really makes you a success as a parent. It's, uh, incredible. Okay, uh, we talked about all of your successes and accolades, and you have many, but what about failure? How has failure shaped your life?

Oh God, I mean, I've learned everything from failure. Aren't they more important than the successes? I talk about the Devil at Midnight, learning, losing my father suddenly in 2017 and how I entered my really bad boss era. But yeah, I think, um, failures are actually what lead to the successes, don't they? That's how I feel. Yes.

Wow, powerful. And, uh, who are some of your thought leaders, mentors, people you follow that we should know about and we should follow as well?

Well, my mother, she's not on LinkedIn, but definitely I think my mother's definitely, as you know, from the water test. Mm-hmm. There are so many people, Lisa Hurley, who's on LinkedIn, Jamal Marshall, who's my coach and counselor, Liam Darmody, who's my LinkedIn guru and good friend. I mean, gosh, there's a lot of great people. There's a lot of discussion on the LinkedIn algorithm change changing and everything, because nothing stays the same. But I still love them, and that's how we met. You reached out on the platform. And so I think there's still so many amazing people to meet. Awesome.

Absolutely. Okay, let me ask you this then. Uh, if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, they could be dead, alive, or even mythical figures, who would you choose and why?

Gosh, these are, um, really intense questions. Um, I'm gonna say Michelle Obama.

You don't have to say why for that one. Next.

I don't have to say why. You know, Gretchen Carlson. I've actually— she's endorsed my two books, but we haven't met in person, so I'd like to have dinner with her. She's— I think she was doing some amazing work.

Cool.

Equity in the workplace.

Yes. And one more.

Gosh, um, I'm gonna add, um, Gracie Abrams to the mix because my daughter would like to come to dinner. That's what we're listening to in our household.

Fantastic. Now, when it comes to books, I want everybody to purchase your first book, Reimagine Inclusion, which is a best-selling book as well, and especially this new one. This will change your life, I believe. Devil Emails at Midnight. Whichever books or media, YouTube channel, podcast, or even movies or music you would recommend to my audience.

So there's a book that a friend of mine wrote. It's called The Anxious Achiever, and my friend Maura wrote it. And I, you know, still am haunted by this question: has it been ambition or anxiety that's driven me most of my career? Ambition or anxiety that's driven me most of my career? So that book is pretty incredible. I'm going to recommend that one.

All right, so what is the song, the book, or the movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

Gosh, this is like— I— God, I feel like I should have studied for this. I like— I like right now Sia, Unstoppable. I like those lyrics. I mean, there's some songs that come to, uh, Beyoncé, Girls Run the World, Pink, Just Like Fire. Like songs that are about resilience, songs that are about community energy, going after Your Dreams. Like, that's the sort of music.

Very good. No, it was a great song, very inspirational. And I like asking this because I am a musician. I've been playing the piano since I was 7. But I feel like for most of us, any critical events that happen in your lifetime, there is a soundtrack to it and inspire people. So thank you so much for sharing. So if you had a magic wand and you could solve any problem at all, when you wake up in the morning, which one problem would you like to solve?

That we see each other as human beings and that we don't see, um, you know, we don't see all the things that we stereotype each other for, that we just get to really know each other as people. I really wish that for all of us.

Wow, very, very profound. Okay, if you had one and only one day to live, what would you have loved your final contribution to be?

I would like to be by the beach. It's not too hot, it's not too cold with my immediate and extended friends. That would be my—

wow. All right, we are coming to the very end. So, uh, what can we do for you? How can we add value back to you? Thanks so much for making good time to be here. You're very famous.

That's my profile. Fancy, I love it.

I think you and I, we connected on LinkedIn maybe 3 or 4 years ago. You weren't as famous as you are now, so I'm so grateful. To be one of your friends.

I talked to my kids. I'm gonna be doing school pickup soon. I'm just mom. So yeah, I would love for you to read The Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad Bosses. Amazon, Barnes Noble, your local independent bookstore. And if you love it, tell someone else about it. I mean, I really wrote this book to make impact, and that is what you all can do for me.

And thank you.

If I can ever do anything, you all can find me. Um, all right, we people as you reached out. I love speaking.

We only have 3 minutes left, but before I ask you one of the last questions, is there anything I should have asked you that I didn't ask about the book or anything else?

No, I mean, the one thing is like just keep chasing your dreams. There's no expiration. And all those nos, they came to yes for me. I mean, we didn't talk about this, maybe for a future show. But it was a long journey to get book 1 and book 2 published, and I'm just not going to stop. Don't let go. Don't give up on your dreams. Just don't do it.

Wow. You are so inspirational, Mira. Okay. I think this is the most important question of the entire podcast. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, what would you say to 17-year-old Mira?

It's going to be okay, and do it afraid.

Do you prefer?

Yeah, yeah.

All right, and, uh, what do you want to be when you were a kid?

I wanted to be a teacher.

Okay, you are a teacher with your books. You are teaching a—

Yeah, I wanted to be a teacher. I used to torture my brother and his little friends in front of a chalkboard and try to teach them school, and they had no interest. But yeah, I wanted to be a teacher.

3 adjectives describing you as a child.

Curious, empathetic, quiet.

And as an adult?

I'm gonna say standing in her power. Yes, that's it. Standing on my—

two more.

Oh, I have to do two more?

Yes, three.

I'd like to say funny. Everyone thinks my brother is the funny one. Yeah, I say funny.

One more.

I'm saying empathetic.

Yeah.

Okay, and now this is the very last question, and we have about 45 seconds left. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today?

Joy. I just had so much fun. It was a wonderful joy. Thank you.

I'm so grateful. Thank you so much, Mita. Bestselling author, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so glad you are here.

Thank you for having me.

Have a wonderful week. Really appreciate it. All right, everyone. This was Mita Malik. And like we said, purchase the book, The Devil Emails at Midnight: What Good Leaders Can Learn from Bad Bosses. And what many people have been doing with this book is they've been giving the book anonymously to their bad bosses. That's a great way to go. So Mithilesh is already like we've said, LA bestselling author, Wall Street Journal and Amazon, of course. But let's try to make her a New York Times bestselling author too. So purchase the book. It's in all formats. You can get the paperback, the Audible version, and the Kindle version. As well. So, uh, thank you, thank you, thank you. So tomorrow I'm gonna be back and I'm gonna have a 4-star general, Glenn VanHerck, U.S. Air Force retired. He's the former commander for NORAD and U.S. NORTHCOM. That's going to be quite a conversation, so I hope you can make it tomorrow. I believe it's at 8:30 AM Pacific time, so 11:30, uh, Eastern time. And then next Monday I will have my coach and mentor Dr. Tim Elmore is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and founder, and he's written a book about Gen Z. And if you want to learn how to lead Gen Z, this is the place to be. Leadership 2.0: The Gen Z Playbook. So we're going to be speaking about that. And then on Thursday next week, I'm going to have Coach Divya Smith. She's an investor, entrepreneur, and executive, and she will be right here on the Leadership and Success podcast. And again, I hope to see you there. So It's really been a great, great, great pleasure and privilege to speak with Mita Malik. She's extremely busy, so she gave us about 45 minutes today. So again, purchase the book, The Devil Emails at Midnight. So I don't see any questions on LinkedIn or YouTube. So this is it for today, and I see you again tomorrow when we speak with General. Bye for now. Bye everybody. This is Coach BZ. Thanks for watching. Until next time, don't forget to like, comment, and share.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.