S4:E109🎙️ LIVE with Coach Alex: Lt Col Alejandro Ramos, USAF (Ret.)

¡Hola!

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Alex, first let's start off, tell us a little bit about you. Yeah, first off, Vince, thanks for rolling your Rs. That was outstanding. You know, Cause I go by Alejandro Ramos and, but if you can't roll your Rs, you can just refer to me as Alex or Fabio, which was my call sign as aerospace physiologist in the Air Force. That's, that's a story for, for offline. And then, you know, like for me, it's, I'm just 100% grateful to wake up this morning and have this opportunity to, to share this. That was outstanding, you know, cause I go by Alejandro Ramos and, but if you can't roll your Rs, you can just refer to me as Alex or Fabio, which was my call sign as aerospace physiologist in the Air Force. Oh, that's, that's a story for, for offline. And then, uh, you know, like, for me, it's— I'm just 100% grateful to wake up this morning and have this opportunity to share this fellowship with you two, um, in the Leadership Void. I, you know, I retired from the Air Force 20 years, 9 months, and 5 days, and I can't thank you enough because both of you have been instrumental in, uh, in my transition from being in the Air Force and an American Airman to now an entrepreneur. So appreciate your kindness. I appreciate the brotherhood, all the contacts, information, and time that you've given me. So I appreciate that very much. Thank you so much. Uh, yeah, so a little bit about me. I'm a son, I'm a brother, I'm a father, I'm a husband. And you know, I'm just curious about leadership. I'm curious about how our mindsets and our strategies that we apply in our lives shape our personal and our professional lives. You know, and, and over the past 20 years I had the chance to be in leadership positions, but also I got to live a dream that I had as a kid. I wanted to be in the Air Force. I wanted to serve. I wanted to be able to, to fly in fighter aircraft. And I got to do that as an aerospace physiologist and as a behavioral scientist, had the chance to really learn about our enlisted force structure, just leadership at different levels, development. And then of course, as a squadron commander, having that opportunity to lead at that level, that was just an outstanding opportunity to test your skills. And to learn more and being put in that, that type of environment. So I'm just, you know, I'm grateful that I, I've been able to live a dream flying 13 military aircraft, study human factors and human performance, and with elite military operators, high-altitude parachutists, like I said, air crew, even, uh, Air Force One crew, presidential support group, flight attendants, flight engineers. And I just loved it. And now I'm, I'm focused and I'm happy building lead without fear, and really spending time with my family as well. So thank you.

All right everyone, this is Coach Bizzy. Today is Wednesday, November 12th, the day after Veterans Day, and I have another veteran here, uh, for you. Uh, it's gonna be a really, uh, wonderful time. But before I introduce them, uh, let's, uh, do as we customarily do here on this, uh, podcast. Let's take just a quick moment to be grateful for something. Every day we meet, I really love to be grateful for one thing every single day, partly because of the epidemic in the military. It's about 22 veterans who commit suicide every single day. And I believe it's not possible to be suicidal and be grateful at the very same time. So if you would close your eyes and think about one thing that you are really grateful for. What comes to your mind? What are you grateful for today? And I think for me, someone I interviewed yesterday, actually it was on Monday, Lieutenant Colonel Johnny Lyman. He said one of his songs that is kind of like an anthem to his life is "Never Would I Have Made It." And when I think about it, I think I am really grateful for favor, right? I am really grateful for the opportunities I have had throughout my entire life, the people I have met. Some of them I will never be able to pay back. You've really made a big, big difference in my life. One question I like to ask on this podcast is, what would you tell to your 17-year-old self knowing everything you know now and having had the career that you've had? And I think for me, it would be everything is going to be all right. Everything is going to work out. Some way, somehow it will work out. So, I am grateful for my faith and I'm grateful for my friends and I'm grateful for all of the people I have met. Like I've said before, I've really never met a stranger in my life. And I would tell to my 17-year-old self, everything is going to be all right. I would tell Simon Zinga in October 2004, everything is going to be all right. I would tell Simon Zinga, actually I became a, I guess I was a Simon in 2004 and then a Simon by the end of bootcamp, May 2005. I would tell Simon, Saman Zinga, mid-2005, everything will be all right. And again, you know, when I became a Petty Officer Third Class, everything will be all right. And in 2007, when I became an ensign, everything will be all right. And definitely once I achieved my dream, April 1st, 2021, when I finally became a senior officer in the most powerful military in the world, in the U.S. Navy, everything is going to be all right. So I don't know what you are going through right now. Everybody goes through a lot of difficult circumstances and challenges in life, but having that faith that everything will turn out some way, somehow, for good for you, right? That is definitely a mindset that is worth having. Okay, I've said enough about that. So let me see if I can introduce our guest today. A very, very phenomenal man. He's really inspirational. So we are talking about Lieutenant Colonel Alejandro, Alex Ramos, United States Air Force retired, decorated US Air Force veteran, human performance expert, and leadership transformation coach with over 20 years of service. Born on Torrejón Air Base in Spain to a proud military family, Alex commissioned through the University of Florida ROTC and went on to serve as a behavioral scientist, aerospace physiologist, and Squadron Commander training elite performers from fighter pilots to special operation forces men. Is there anything that Alex hasn't done? My goodness, this is just amazing. Having flown in more than 14 different Department of Defense aircraft and worked alongside Air Force One aircrew, he brings unmatched insight into resilience, high-stakes decision-making, and mission-driven leadership. Today, as the founder of Lead Without Fear, Coach Alex helps organizations and individuals bridge courage culture, inspiring leaders to inspire courage and live your mission. Ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, please help me welcome Lieutenant Colonel Alex Ramos. All right. Okay, Coach Alex, can you hear me?

I can hear you loud and clear. How you copy?

Fantastic. Really, really great to see you. I am so excited to talk to you, especially on today, the day after Veterans Day. So first and foremost, Thank you so much for your service. Such a great honor to have you here. If we can start by, uh, is there anything you are grateful for, sir?

I'm grateful for today's wake-up. You know, when people ask me every day, they say, hey, how are you doing, at the grocery store, I say I woke up this morning. And as we talked earlier, you know, just, I just lost one of my best friends and he didn't wake up. So you got to be grateful for each day that you have and really share the experiences that you have now with the people that you love and you care about. So I'm grateful for this morning. I'm grateful I was able to have breakfast with my daughter, Eva. I'm grateful I was able to drive her to school with no rush to show up anywhere. I can spend time with her. I can pick her up from school. I'm just— I'm grateful to be alive today and be here with you.

That is so wonderful. We definitely have that in common. I was doing my daddy duty with driving my daughter to school this morning too, which is awesome, which I think I remember originally we had our time set up an hour earlier. We had to move it back just a little bit., uh, to give me enough time to come back. But yeah, thank you, thanks so much. And, uh, what is one thing about you that most people may not know?

So what I guess one thing would be is, is basically tied to my call sign. So, you know, back in the day when I was a second lieutenant, uh, I did a little bit of— yeah, Fabio. I, I did a little bit of acting and, and some modeling, and so my teams used to call me, uh, Hollywood. But during an investigation, this mishap investigation, there was a general officer there who said, oh, they found out about it. And of course they said, hey, we're changing your call sign. Of course, they all had a vote on it and they changed it to Fabio. So it's not because of my long blonde hair, by the way. But, you know, and of course you have to accept that there was nothing else I could do about it.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing the story. I guess I've had quite a few callsigns myself, but the one I prefer is BZ. I guess it's Bob Fabien Zinga, but also Bravo Zulu. So Wonderful. So if you can take us back about kind of where it all began, though, what was it like growing up in Torrejón Air Base in Spain in a proud U.S. Air Force family? Yeah.

So for me, you know, Torrejón Air Base was— it's a dream for a kid, you know, 12 to 15 years old. I was born there. And then my father, he served 24 years in the Air Force. He's a retired master sergeant. So, you know, obviously we moved around and we got back over to Torrejón because my mom is from Spain, from Madrid. So of course you're trying to get back home to family. And so 12 to 15 were some of the best years of my life because of the friends that I had. But also I got to see all the F-16s taking off, all the aircraft coming into Torrejón, which was a dream of mine to be able to fly in one of those fighters. So in fact, I'll tell you this real quick story. So they had these summer programs when you're 15, and back in the day they had those floppy disks, you know, and they said, you can take this information from this computer, you can copy it here and file it away, or we have some outdoor programs as well. And one of those outdoor programs was mowing the grass around the base. So think about the heat in Spain, you know, the middle of Madrid. And I said, okay, I'll take that job. And, and as soon as they said that some of the work would be done around the flight line is the reason why I took it. So here's this young man, 15 years old with a weed eater cutting dead grass out there because it's a hot summer. And I would just watch those F-16s take off. But the best part, and this is a testament to those pilots in the aircraft, when they saw me out there, I would just stand there and look at them and they would give me a thumbs up, a salute, throw me a shaka. And that to me really just continued to inspire me. So it's just little gestures like that. That can really propel and accelerate somebody to pursue a dream. And they, because of that, obviously, and my father and my mother and how I was raised and just the love for the military in general, I was able to start, you know, there creating that belief that I could do that one day.

That is really amazing. Talking about your, your parents, you've said that your parents, they taught you both service before self and character above all. How did those lessons shape your leadership philosophy today?

I have just been very, very fortunate to have a father who worked so hard, who devoted his life. He's a Vietnam veteran. I remember him coming home and, you know, we would rush to take off his heavy boots and he would sit there for a little bit, of course, have dinner. But a lot of people don't know this. You know, my father then went out and worked a night shift to, you know, kind of make ends meet. There was 4 of us kids and my mom was a stay-at-home mom who taught us a lot about values, taught us about character, taught us about courage. And of course, as we moved around, she had to learn English. You know, we didn't have ChatGPT and AI back then. She learned by watching TV with us. And of course, you know, her leadership at the home was also inspirational for all of us to move forward and achieve our dreams. In fact, my sister served in the Air Force. My youngest brother served in the Army. And my other brother, a software engineer, worked on multifunction displays for weapons systems for a while. So we're like a a military family, truly cohesive, and they, they are the foundation of it.

Man, that is really amazing and truly inspirational. So what inspired you then to pursue a career specifically in aerospace physiology and behavioral science, and then later to blend that with leadership coaching that you're doing today?

So, interesting story, uh, I wanted to be a fighter pilot, okay, but I also had a love for medicine. I had a love for the orthopedic surgery. I wanted to go into that. And so when I found that the Air Force had this combination combination of the medical physiology aspect of things and flying, it seemed like a very good mix for me. So interesting enough though, when I went to University of Florida, you know, I did well. I was distinguished graduate, had, you know, some awards here and there. But when they came down with the job that you were going to get, I went up to, you know, the captain, and she said, okay, here you go, Mr. Ramos. And I got it, and I looked at it, and it said behavioral science, which was something I didn't even have on my list. So I thought, hey, I worked so hard, I've done everything right, and now I'm not going to be an aerospace physiologist. Like, what, what, what's, what gives? And it was, it was my first introduction where the captain said, needs of the Air Force. So it was like, I got it loud and clear. And so I went into behavioral science. Don't, do not regret it one bit. I met some incredible people working some, some amazing jobs to figure out how do we best train our enlisted force. Did a lot of briefings, a lot of analytics. And so I learned a lot about the structure of the testing process, occupational surveys, which paid off huge when I was a squadron commander. So as they say, blossom where you're planted, do the very best where you are. And 2 years later, I was able to transition to become an aerospace physiologist and be able to do that job.

That's pretty, pretty, pretty cool. Wow. Amazing. So, uh, Man, when I think about everything you've done and you've gone through, it's just amazing how much, not just you, but really your entire family have contributed to the national security of this country. So over 20 years in the Air Force, you've trained elite performers from special operation forces to fighter pilots, which is really cool. But what did you learn about human performance under pressure?

So human performance under pressure, as an aerospace physiologist, we always have altitude chambers., right? So we get people hypoxic, they know their hypoxic symptoms, they know how to correct for it in case they face that. If they're high-altitude parachutists, right, you got to have oxygen. Uh, if you're obviously flying an aircraft and you feel hypoxic, what to do. So my life has been around pressure, literally, right? Low pressure and high pressure when I did hyperbarics, uh, back in Okinawa. What's interesting about it is elite performers, if you think just about life in general, you need pressure to live. You need pressure to get that oxygen into your body so it can go and circulate throughout your body so you can stay alive. So we, we are creatures of pressure. We need that pressure to develop, to grow. And what I've learned about elite operators for me is, number one, they believe in what they're doing. They, they know the gravity of the task and the missions that they have, so much so that every time they get reps in doing what they're supposed to do for our nation they do it to the best of their ability. And they're not doing it to the best of their ability, but they're doing it to the point where they're holding themselves to the highest of standards. They're holding themselves accountable. I've seen elite operators sit in debriefs and say, hey, this is where I went wrong, this is what I could have done better. And creating that culture where everyone around them starts to say, hey, this is what I could have done better. And also giving credit when credit is due. I mean, these elite operators can perceive, understand, comprehend, decide, and act in various environments under high pressure. And it's those reps and it's that trust that they have in one another and that belief in one another that truly allows them, right, to, in this case for us, fly, fight, and win.

Wow. That is, that is really, really awesome. And by the way, we do have someone here, Doug Hubert from Chicago. And working at Hubert Decision, and they really know how to pretty much measure anything. Thank you so much for being here, Doug. And for those listening in, please let us know where you're coming from, what city, state, or country, and also if you have a question for Coach Alex. Thank you so much for being here. That is, that is really something. So you have flown more than 14 DoD aircraft and worked with the Air Force One aircrew. What leadership principles, experiences teach you about precision, trust, and preparation?

Talk about precision, uh, working. So I did crew resource management training for Air Force One aircrew and Presidential Support Group. Imagine Air Force One having an issue in the air. Imagine what that says, not only for obviously our nation but our allies. Something goes wrong, we know it's the precision, right? The accuracy that's required. And especially the short flights that they have to do are some of the most, you know, under pressure. But what I've learned from these elite operators is that precision, right? And trust is an outcome. It's a result of the preparation.

Yes.

So when you're preparing together and you're going through the struggles together and you're going through the training together and you're seeing all of the challenges that you're going to face, Working together on that, right? Understanding your strengths and what you bring to the fight, to the table, is what builds that trust. And when you have that trust and you know you're going to execute to that high, you know, quality and accuracy, you get that precision, right? So it's not perfection. What I've learned is we don't, we don't go for perfection because perfection means that it's without defect, without anything that's, that's, that's wrong, if you will. What I learned is precision is actually— I love that you're using this word because you're talking about accuracy and precision. You might hit the target, but not everything went according to plan.

Hmm.

So now you got to go back and figure out, okay, how can we make sure that we improve these so we continue to be precise? And this could be for your goal on sales for the quarter, right? Maybe we met our goal, but we could have been more efficient.

Yes.

Okay, so it's just figuring out, all right, let's look at the precision. That's an outcome, right? Trust is an outcome of that preparation from everyone.

Wow, that is really something. So what inspired you to create Lead Without Fear, and what does it mean to raise the gladiator helmet? I think I have a picture of you with that in your hand right there.

Yeah, so Lead Without Fear, to me, it was one of these things like, what is, what is one thing that basically prevents us, or is one of the biggest barriers in us living our mission, living our purpose? And what I found over time, to include myself, right, I'm— of course there's fears. We all have fears. It's a normal signal for survival, for thriving in certain environments. It's telling us to be aware of something. What I found over the years is that some of these fears are really about uncertainty. It's really about like not knowing what's going to happen. And because of that, I feel like I don't have control. And if I don't have control and I don't know what the outcome is going to be, then I start to go into this catastrophic, you know, thought process, if you will. Or the fear of not being promoted, the fear of not being liked. There's these fears that we create within our minds that are not, they're not gonna harm us physically, right? Physiologically, we have a response to it. But what I found is like, let's not be afraid of these fears. Let's welcome them to the table. So lead without fear means that there's, it doesn't mean that we don't have fear, It just means that we don't allow fear to be at the forefront to lead us. We want to bring fear to the table. We want to understand it. We want to talk to it. We want to know where it's coming from. And once we begin to understand fear, the ones that we have personally, because someone may be afraid of skydiving, but someone isn't. So understanding your individual fears and those of your team as individuals, right? Or your team fears allows us to then work through them in a way where now we can coach and accelerate people through those.

Well, thank you so much for sharing about individual fear. And later, I think I'm going to ask you what is the greatest fear you yourself have been able to overcome. But what about as an organization? Many organizations struggle with fear-based cultures, right? Fear of failure, you kind of mentioned that, fear of speaking up, depending on where you work. So how can leaders begin to reverse that dynamic and have more of a psychological safe culture across the organization?

Sure. I mean, so don't, don't hide the fears, you know. When you, when you actually welcome them into the conversation, and it may not be something where you say, hey, what are your fears? Because sometimes people don't want to admit it. But when you get to know your people and you talk to your people, they'll subtly— you can see these subtle hints as to what they're afraid of, right? So for example, you know, maybe someone didn't come to your office or, you know, didn't talk to you about a particular challenge they were having because they were afraid that maybe you would see them as incompetent. But when you share a story about yourself, hey, I just want everybody to know that I've been there. I was raised through the ranks and I've had some experiences. They're not the exact same experience as you, but I want you to know that these challenges really pushed my limit mentally and physically. And this is how I was able to overcome them. And these are the people that helped me overcome those fears. And so, you open up by talking about yourself first. Opening that dialogue creates that psychological safety that says, "Well, if he was okay sharing it with someone and that someone helped him through it, maybe this person can help me do it." You just shared Dare to Lead. That's—

Yeah.

So, I'll give it to you. So, here's an interesting— that actually goes along with this question. It's the perfect timing. BZ, you're Coach BZ on point.

Okay?

Precision, accuracy. So, So when you think about it, I had a group commander and I was a squadron commander at the time. And I said, how do I bring this up to the Colonel? What am I gonna do? And I was reading "Dare to Lead" at the time. And in there, Brené Brown talks about rumble, how to rumble with your boss. And essentially you go into your boss and you say, hey, I'm having this challenge. I'm feeling a certain way about it. Is it okay if I talk about it and just kind of let you know what I'm thinking? And then once I explain it to you of what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, if you could share your thoughts on that. Okay. And so I said, what do I have to lose if I don't say anything? The status quo stays the same, right? My people are gonna, you know, maybe not feel like we did the very best for them. So how can we— how can we do it? So I'll go into the office, I sit down, I talk to her, I told her about the Rumble, how to, you know, how this process— I just happen to be reading this book, Dare to Lead, and I'd like to try this if it's okay with you, ma'am. And she allowed it. So good on her to allow that, right? That creates psychological safety. Absolutely. She could have just rushed me out of the office. And sure enough, I was able to explain myself and talk to her about it. She said her piece. And next thing you know, she actually was able to change some of the things that we were asking for.

Wow.

So that's how you create that psychological safety. You have to have the courage, right? The courage to go in there and to do the things you need to do.. But that courage, if it's anchored in purpose, like it's meaningful, yes, then it gives you that more kind of empowerment and, and ability to go forth and actually do it.

Hmm. That is really, really powerful. Another interesting thing about your background, what you've combined behavioral science, physiology, and leadership development. So how do these disciplines intersect in your coaching today?

So all of these intersect because what I find interesting in behavioral science was a lot of data collection, right? So for, I'll give you an example. Whenever you're gonna make a decision or a judgment call, and we talk this in our coaching sessions too, is there's 3 things you wanna have. You wanna have information, you wanna have knowledge and experience. And maybe we don't have all 3, maybe we only have 2, maybe we only have 1. But if we have the right information, in a way that is displayed where we can comprehend it and we have the knowledge to then comprehend it, know what it means to us, what it means to the organization. And then we can actually have experience sometimes. Like for example, you have experience. I'm sure people still call you and go, "Hey, Coach BZ, I'm having this challenge, you know, and you are a mentor of mine and I wanna know what you think." Because of your experience, you can share some thoughts with them, right? So before we make that judgment call, that decision, it's important to have information, knowledge, and experience. So that's like that mental aspect of things. And then I also found the physiological responses. So let's say you're speaking with somebody, you're working with somebody, you can kind of notice they're nervous. Okay? They're twitching a little bit, their expressions. So we get real in tune with the physiology, what's happening in the mind that's creating this physiological response. And whether it be coaching or you're just speaking to somebody or even raising your kids for that matter. Then we can get to that level and start to work with them through that. So the behavioral science, the physiology all works together and figuring out how do we accelerate and move forward, whether it be the individual or the organization as a whole.

That is really powerful. I think I mostly learned that from Tony Robbins, right? The connection between physiology and emotion and mind— mindset. Now, let's talk about emotional intelligence a little bit. I know Brené Brown Dare to Lead is a very important work because I feel like you even mentioned that, right? As leader, we need to be vulnerable and also have high level of emotional intelligence. For example, where I live now in Silicon Valley, I think our IQ is completely off the chart. Too many smart people here, but emotional intelligence is definitely something we need to work on. So what role does emotional intelligence play in courageous leadership the way you are coaching?

So when you think about emotional intelligence, really being in tune with what you're feeling and how you're feeling. Okay, what and how are we leading with that emotion? Is that emotion driving us towards an action? Is it driving us to the, to the direction that we want to go in? When I, when I think about emotion, and you mentioned Tony Robbins, and I think he's really big on this, is it the emotion that we want to focus on? Yes. Okay, I have, I have feeling this particular emotion. But what is the meaning that we're attaching to the thing that's giving that triggering that emotion? And I think this is key when it comes to emotional intelligence. What is triggering me to feel the way that I feel? And then when I would say this all the time to LTs when they say, hey, I'm just about to go teach a fighter pilot class, you know, and they feel intimidated. So the meaning is I don't know enough. The meaning they attach to is like, they're going to see right through me. I've never flown in a fighter or have as many hours. I don't have this much time. I don't know what this means. So it's like, okay, the meaning is that they may be seen as incompetent, right? But if we shift the meaning and we say, well, is this, this is an opportunity to test, right, and to share vital information for them in a way that will influence them in the fight, influence them in the aircraft and we can master those things first, right? You gain the confidence in that, correct? If you're serving and there to influence and teach the warfighter and it's about them and not about you, it changes the meaning, it changes the emotions that you feel. So, emotional intelligence is the ability to have that self-awareness of what you're feeling and my— this is my interpretation— what meanings we attach to the things that are going on in our lives and how does that you know, how does that gap close with how we actually act? Okay, so I perceive my emotions, I know the meaning, I comprehend it. I can predict that if I walk out there angry, it's probably not going to be a good look. Okay, so, but if I go out there and I make the decision to ask questions to get more information so I can understand the issue, and then I do that, I'm sure the feedback I get is going to be a lot better.

Wow, that's really the difference between reacting and responding, isn't it?

Absolutely. That's a good one.

That's, uh, powerful. All right, so let's talk about your transition a little bit. On the little clip I've shown you, we are talking to, uh, my brother from another mother, uh, you, U.S. Navy Senior Chief, now, uh, leadership coach, uh, Enrique Gonzalez. But, uh, you were talking about how it was a little bit challenging to transition, right? 20-plus years in the U.S. Air Force, and now you are a great entrepreneur and coaching Can you tell us what some of the biggest challenges were during your transition from active duty to the industry?

Well, absolutely. It's real. And I think this is an important conversation to have, BZ. This is something that I, and I know that your audience is so diverse and I can speak to those that, you know, have served in the military and separated or retired. Some people, they go on and they're just fine. For me, I can tell you, and I'm very open and honest about this because I want people to call me. I want to have those conversations with them. For me, I experienced this low. I experienced the sadness. I didn't even know where it was coming from. I experienced a loss of identity. I thought I was doing okay. So after command, right, I said, okay, I, I, I was— I went to PACAF. I was in Pacific Air Force's headquarters there, and I was now put in a cubicle. So I went from this Squadron Command, alive with all these airmen in technical training, 14 different specialties, out of the helmet, raising the helmet, unleashing the warrior within, working with over 130 personal part— a permanent party. And then I'm in a cubicle and I'm just— I just had this sadness. So fast forward, one of my friends, uh, Joe Gilpin, I met him at the Air Force Safety Center. I see him on, on Hickam and I said— on the base— and I said, hey, I said, I'm feeling this certain way. And he's like, oh yeah, it's called command hangover. And he said it like nothing. I'm like, what, what do you—

command hangover?

What is this? He's like, yeah, it's normal. It's like after command you feel this way. And so I reached out to my other friend, Eric Phillips, who's a colonel, a group commander now. And I was like, hey, are you familiar with this? And so I'm trying to ask questions like, what is this thing? And so, so now I understood that, right? I started to understand what that meant. Now fast forward. So General Kurt F. Neubauer, Major General retired, best leader I ever worked for in the Air Force, one of the greatest mentors I've ever had. In fact, he's the godfather of Lead Without Fear. He used to sign off his emails with that. I, I called him up and I said, hey, hey, General, I'm feeling this way. I heard his command hangover. And he said, Fabio, take care of the airmen in the field. If it's policy, whatever it is, go find out what they need and go get it for them. And so it shifted my heart and soul as far as like, okay, this is—

now I have that purpose.

It's anchored in purpose, right? And now I have to fuel that purpose with courage. So, that really shifted me because it was a tough transition. And when I retired, like I said, I got stories for that too. But if you have retired or separated and you're feeling like a loss of identity, by all means, what helped me is actually talking to a counselor and sitting down with this person and saying, "Hey, this is what's going on. This is what I'm thinking and feeling." And they walked me through the process on how to, you know, start to to get back on track.

That's very interesting because I remember in 2017 I was a Lieutenant Commander, so O-4, and I felt like I still had a lot more to give. And the Navy told me, no, you are done for medical issues. We don't want you. You don't qualify to be— you are no longer physically qualified to remain on active duty. Goodbye. Ah, that was a huge, huge crisis for me. So first of all, I had that dream of one day becoming a commander, so that was bye-bye at that time. I wasn't a commander, I wasn't in command yet, but I've been an executive officer, so second in charge, and department head. Then I remember something General Powell taught us. He said, avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it. But it's true, during this time, I really felt like I had lost my complete identity. I didn't know who I was anymore. If I'm not a sailor, who am I? But now, many, many years later, Later now, I'm definitely ready to retire and remove the uniform now. I've accomplished everything I felt like I was going to accomplish in the Navy. But back then, it was quite a transition. I didn't know it was called command hangover, but so many people kind of go through this, especially if you had high-duty, high-tempo deployment, and then all of a sudden you are in a completely different environment in tech or whatever else you might be doing. That might be quite a challenge. So thank you so much for sharing that. So now we're going to switch over to the second half of the show where I focus mostly on leadership. First question I'm going to ask is, what do you think is the greatest lesson you have learned so far in life, in leadership, in general?

Yeah, I think you started off with that in the beginning, that everything is going to be okay. Everything's gonna be all right. You know, I, I play the song Three Little Birds for, for my daughter, and I would say, you can't be angry when you listen to this song. You can't be sad. Like, it's impossible. Like, you just feel good about it. And the greatest lesson that, that I've learned is that it not only is it going to be all right, but whatever you're working through and going through is building you for that future self that, that's needed to provide to this world, right? And I think And really, we live by 5 simple words. We created what's called a VISMS when I was a squadron commander, which is the vision mission. And these are 6 words, 6 or less words that you live by. And for us was inspire warrior medics, affect the fight. And when I look at the greatest lessons that I've learned in life and now is like, are you inspiring courage within yourself and others? And are you living your mission? That's why— that's the 5 words that we live by. That's our business. And if you can inspire courage in others and you're inspiring courage in yourself and others are encouraging you and you live your mission, then you're contributing to the world. And the greatest lesson we can learn, in my personal opinion, is are we contributing to this world, right? Every life form serves a purpose, and are we living in that purpose, yes or no?

Wow, living with purpose, that is so huge. I remember someone said, right, the two days most important in anybody's life, the day you were born and then the day you find out why. That really makes a big, big difference. So, uh, all of the successes you have had, what do you think is the secret for your success?

It's the people that believed in me, the people that believed in me from day one, from my family, from my parents, my siblings throughout my career. You know, I've been involved in organizations where, you know, I thought, you know, this is it for me. There was times where I felt like separating. And this is— this was my dream. This is my life. But it was— got to a point where I was like, I don't know if I can continue. But there are people in my life who believed in me. You know, when I was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel early, I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting that. But there was a colonel at the vice wing commander who brought me up to the office, and we had to go pick up our promotion recommendation forms in person. Okay, they had it in an envelope. That's how it worked. And I go into the office and it's Colonel Bowersox, and he says— he gives me— he hands me the envelope, you know, I open it and I look at it and it has a definitely promote on there. Wow. And, and I'm— and I look at him and he looks at me and, and he's like, uh, do you have a problem with that? And I just exhaled, and I, and I, I just said I couldn't be more grateful. And it says, look, you really have a shot, and look at your record. But here's a leader that I didn't really speak to that much. I knew of him, I saw him around. Of course he'd speak at commanders' calls and other places, but the fact that he believed in me and other leaders had put me in positions where they believed that I could do this and grow in those positions then of course that's— that the success is through our people, the people that we have the responsibility to take care of. You know, it's not— I can't run a chamber by myself, an altitude chamber. You can't run a unit by yourself, right? It takes the whole community to work together. And I'm just fortunate that there's leaders who said, hey, we want to continue to move you forward. And I'm super grateful for it.

Well, that's really a big lift. Here's your picture of the Silver Oak Leaf, O-5, Lieutenant Colonel for the Air Force and Commander for the US Navy. It's really, really a big, big deal. Less than 4% of people who join the military end up as senior officer. And wow, man, the faith you have in people and just their contribution. Like, I think I wrote a post earlier this morning where I said, We really truly stand right on the shoulders of giants, those who have gone before us and supporting us throughout all of our career. So let me ask you this: what, what do you think is the greatest leadership advice you have ever received?

I think the greatest is the name of the company, Lead Without Fear. It's the greatest. It's short, it makes you think, it makes you go within, it makes you be, you know, focus on self-awareness, and it makes you think about your team. It makes you think about the energy you bring to your team. You know, when you think about lead without fear, it's truly understanding. And, and for me, I, I didn't— I didn't go to combat. My job wasn't to go be at the, you know, tip of the spear and pickling, you know, bombs and weapons and doing— firing, busting down doors. But my, my position, my role was to teach human performance provide threat and error management to those that would do those things.

Wow.

And so the greatest leadership lesson is, if you're going to do that, do it without fear. Do it with service in mind. Do it with those people— our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers. Do it to the very best of your ability. That piece of the puzzle is one of the best ways you can ensure they come home. And they don't all do. And I'm sure you have friends who didn't.

Yes, yes.

So when you lead without fear, you understand it's not about you, but it is about you. It's not about you as far as why you're doing it, but it's about you is you better be the best when you're doing it, right? So that's the best, best leadership advice that I've received.

That is really, really powerful. Tony Robbins again says something similar where he says, you know, feel the fear but do it anyway. That's really what courage is, right? Not the absence of fear, but taking action in spite of fear and showing yourself the very, very best way you can. So, what are you learning right now?

What I'm learning right now, particularly in just overall, in general?

Yes. Because leaders are learners, right?

Oh, so one of the things that I apply myself towards is I like to read about stoicism. So, every morning I read what's called The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday. Which I highly recommend. Just have that book in your organization and have it in the conference room. You can even start off by reading it. It's one page, very simple. And then you can have a discussion about it with, with your team. We would do that as a command team. Every morning we'd come in, everybody would grab the Daily Stoic whenever they wanted to. And if they wanted to have a discussion about it, we talk about it. And there was times where that information really helped us out to, okay, we need to face this challenge today. And it gave us that lesson, right? That over 2,000 years ago, you know, they were facing similar challenges when it comes to— because we're human, right? So, but what I'm really learning right now is, is to truly focus on the fact that my identity was so charged with the military, mm-hmm, that I'm learning that it's not my complete identity.

Yes.

Right? It's a part of me, but it's not everything. And so being able to work through that transition is what I'm learning about the most. And I'm learning a lot about myself in that process, right? Yes, because you have to be extremely vulnerable, you have to be open, you have to be able to communicate how you're feeling and what you're going through. And so I'm learning right now the most is about me without the uniform, right? And what strengths and what things we can do to contribute to the world as Lead Without Fear. But as human beings, like, living that purpose— part of it was wearing the uniform, but the purpose is also when we're not wearing the uniform.

Wow, that is really, really powerful. Now, everybody know about all of your successes. One of my CEOs gave me this coin. This side says success, the other side says failure, right? Two sides of the same coin. Can you tell us how failure has shaped your life? Of course, we know about all of your successes, all of the great things you have done, but what about failure?

I think failure is a teacher. You know, when I think about failure, you know, we talk about reframing. So when I, when I work through my neuro-linguistic programming certification, you know, we talk about how we perceive the world and how we operate within the world through our sensory systems. And when I look at failure itself, is I had to learn to reframe it. And you're John C. Maxwell certified, so you know it's like fail forward, right?

Yeah.

So there's this idea that we should look at failure as a way where it's feedback for us. Failure is an opportunity to reflect. And once we fail and we reflect and we reframe and we learn, then we get back up. Hmm. So failure has taught me is like, hey, you're going to fail. It's a normal process.

It's—

this is what happens. Do I like it? I don't like it, BZ. I don't like that. Who likes failure? Well, we try to say, oh, just fail, fail, fail. It's like people don't like failing because it could mean that they're not good enough, they're not strong enough, they're inadequate, right? So what I always say when it comes to my relationship with failure now, especially now, because when I left the military and I retired, I felt like, man, I, you know, what, what am I going to do now? This is not taking off as quickly as I'd like to. I'm worried about this and I'm worried about that. I don't know about entrepreneurship. I have to learn. Enrique was a huge, huge help for that. He's like, he is my brother from another mother. And we had coffee so many times and he welcomed me in. He took me under his wing and he said, hey. So I had somebody to look up to, right? But what I think the best thing that we can do as leaders, and especially with the people that we're responsible for, is to say, hey, failure doesn't feel good, but how can we learn from it? How do we grow from it? And then now let's pursue. But we learn and then get back up.

Well, that is so powerful. Can, can you maybe share one of the greatest fears you've had that you were able to overcome?

I think one of the, one of the greatest, I would say, fears is not doing enough. Not doing enough. And, and I'll share this with you, why, why, why that's such a big fear of mine. One of the hardest things that I've had to do in my career is do accident investigations. When we lose an aircraft, we'll be called as a human factors expert, human performance expert. We'll work alongside a flight surgeon, and within 30 days we got to figure out what went wrong. And some of the hardest ones that I had, one of them was the F-22, Captain Jeff Haney in Alaska. Uh, who we lost in 2010. And, and after that investigation, uh, what we learned— I had to interview his wife Anna, and I remember going to his house, and I was a captain at the time, and I remember seeing his two daughters, and it just, it crushed me. It crushed me. And, and, and what, what it made me feel like— am I, am I not— are we failing our people? I'm not doing enough. And I know it's not our fault, right? And that's, that's the thing when we have frame what's going on. I'll give you another one. Staff Sergeant Forrest B. Sibley, combat controller, went through our training, our altitude chamber, prior to deploying. When he deployed in a convoy, they, they were actually ambushed. Him and his captain unfortunately were killed in that ambush. And I remember we were doing a, um, a staff meeting with our team, with a flight, and during this time we were, we were losing people. So we would have a memoriam where we would put the images of those that we lost.. And I recall we put, we put the image up and it was Sergeant Sonny Potawinski. She said, hey, he went through our class. He did. And so she goes, she gets the sign-in, the attendance sheet, and there's his handwritten signature. There's his name. There's his— he wrote that in there. And all of our young airmen, all of our team looked at that like, this is real. This is real. And it was— and so we actually made remembrance bracelets with his name and we handed out to each person in the flight to remind us that we give our very best. But in the back of my mind, I always just wonder, do we not do enough? Can I— that I'm not doing enough. And then it really just, just crushed me. And, and, and, you know, very, very sad, unfortunately. And we lost Texar Sonny Podobinsky to cancer not too long after that. And that was another thing where I felt like, okay, you know, how— what are we doing here? How can we be better? How can we work together? But instead of focusing on that part, at that point it was about connection and bringing the team together and reflection and honoring, right? And so I always say this, especially for those out there, veterans or those who are serving now, have lost friends, that the best way for us to honor the fallen is to live. Live your life fully.

That is really powerful, and I think especially in the military, many people go through this, right? Survivor remorse. I remember I was just an O2 Lieutenant JG when for the first time I saw a sailor pass away. We were deployed in the South Pacific Sea. He jumped overboard and his body turned like purple. Very, very traumatic event. And Sometimes, and you're right, I've had a lot of my friends, several people I know, you know, since 9/11 we've gone to Afghanistan, Iraq, and combat zones. And even when I became a commanding officer, I became the person to actually sign the orders to send some of my sailors in some of those places that are not safe. And sometimes you just wonder, why did it happen to them but not me? Why am I still here. Can you share just from your experience and everything you have learned about how the mind worked and top performance, how we can have the people listening to us right now can really deal with that survivor remorse guilt syndrome?

Sure. I think one of the things that I learned from Flatter Inc. when I was going through their boot camp coaching program is Dr. Flatter, and he said, you know, when you're coaching— because we asked the question, sometimes when you're coaching it gets very personal, and so you're kind of like, okay, we're, we're kind of maybe approaching this line where, you know, we're not therapists, right? And what I found is that this is, this is a statement he, he made, and it was profound. He says, do we need to go back and heal or move, move forward and grow? Do we need to go back and heal or move forward and grow. And when we experience loss, right, when we experience loss, a lot of times we got to go back and heal in order to move forward and grow. So for me, it was truly is understanding that, hey, you know, we, we have this greater purpose in, in our lives. We do. The, the military is anchored in purpose, and like I said, it's fueled by courage. In fact, I just binge-watched on Netflix, uh, Marines, the documentary. Everything we're talking about today, BZ, is in that documentary.

Yes.

In fact, there's, there's a part in there that says, hey, I've been training my whole life to go to combat, and then what happens if I don't see combat?

Hmm.

Right.

Wow.

Or another one was they're disbanding a particular group of Marines, a skill set, and they feel betrayed. They feel like you don't need me anymore, I don't matter. You're getting rid of me. So we are deeply rooted in this cohesion and this camaraderie and taking care of one another, right? And so for those who are going through a situation when they're feeling, right, they're feeling emotional about the losses that they face in this life, just know this, that the most courageous thing that you can do is find the help to talk it out.

Hmm.

The courage, a lot of times we think it's busting down doors and everything. No, courage can be just getting out of bed one day and saying, I'm going to make that phone call. Yes, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna contact somebody and I'm gonna say I'm gonna go see them and I'm gonna talk this through. Courage, courage can be, hey, I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually, you know, open up in a way, write it down, I'm gonna go to a safe space where I can do this. But the courage doesn't always look like, you know, we're armed up, we're gonna go out there. That's not, that's not how it works. So if you're feeling like, hey, deep loss and the sensation of emptiness, then this is where we got to go back and heal. And when you do that and you start to work through that, through that courageous— because, you know, courage comes from the word courage, the French word, which means heart, or Latin, cor, means from the heart. You got to get your heart into it and allow somebody who understands how the heart works in order for us to open that heart up so that we can move forward.

Wow.

This is probably the most important thing we've talked about on this podcast, and for especially junior officers or enlisted listening in right now, I think it's okay. To need help, no, because I know we are men, we have a lot of testosterone, sometimes we like to be macho, hey, I am bigger than you, stronger than you, and all of this nonsense. But I remember when I first joined the Navy 21 years ago, back then, if you were seeing a psychiatrist or needing mental health help and stuff, it could go really, really bad on you. That could literally end your career. You could actually lose your security clearance. So many people would just keep their mouth shut and just, no, endure through the suffering, which is even worse now when you get a physical disability or get hurt or whatever. People can see it and people have no problem with you getting help. But when it's emotional, nobody can see it. And again, no wonder even today, more than 21, 22 veterans commit suicide a day. You really see a lot throughout your career in the Navy. But really what we're saying is, get help. Okay, you have to get help. Forget about your rank, forget about Ego, you need help. You need to get help. You can talk to a chaplain. You can talk to a psychiatrist. Get help. And there is so much help out there now. And I'm so glad the culture in the Navy has changed so much. We actually encourage our sailors to be healthy, not just physically, but emotionally and spiritually as well. Anything you want to add, Coach Mike?

Yeah, I think that's beautifully said, BZ. And, you know, one of the things that I mentioned in a post yesterday for Veterans Day is like, let's celebrate Veterans Day. One day it'll be Memorial Day, but not by our own hands. Not by our own hands. Okay. And, and, and just one last thing with this, because I— this is something that personally helped me out, is know who the help is before you need it.

Hmm.

Because when we're in those states, a lot of times we're not thinking about it. You're not thinking about getting help. You think you were ruminating, and we're going through what's that— whatever it is that's going through our minds. Uh, but what I found is, okay, I know what and how I need to do what and what, what how and what I need to do in that moment, and I'm going to give me the best opportunity for success as far as getting that help when I know, you know, how I'm going to do it if it does get to that point. So have that plan and then have a maintenance plan, okay? You know, I still go and see somebody every 2 weeks. It's a maintenance plan. It's okay.

Yes.

So just, it's to me, it's— we have to normalize it. Like you said, back in the day, nobody— I didn't do it. I was afraid too. Okay, let's be real. Back in the day, there was a huge stigma, but now it's improved quite a bit. So there's more opportunities out there where you can get the assistance.

Wow, this is so powerful. Let's give out a shout out to our brother from another mother, Senior Chief Enrique Acosta Gonzalez and Maxwell Leadership Coach. Thanks so much for being here. And the Senior Chief says, open that add up. I, I, I really love the, the, the mess, the, the chiefs in the Navy. From time I was an E-1 and all the way I, I become an O-4, the chiefs, they always kind of watch out for you and teach you and train you. So once I became a senior officer, I was an O-5, I'm like, okay, the chief mess has helped me get all the way to here, so I'm not going to ignore what they say now. I still need their guidance and I still need their help. And I'm, I'm telling you, even if you're senior officer, you really have to rely on your chief in order to make sure the work gets done and the enlisted are taken care of. So shout out to all of the chiefs, but especially Senior Chief Enrique Acosta Gonzalez right now. All right, we are running out of time so quickly. Okay, my goodness. Okay, let me see if I can try to wrap this up quickly. Can you tell us some of your mentors or thought leaders, people who have impacted your lives that we should know?

Yeah, I mentioned one already, which is Major General Neubauer. Still to this day, I got a Happy Veterans Day message from him yesterday. He actually was a presiding officer in my retirement. Coach Perry Shoemaker, a coach of mine, baseball coach in Little League when I was young in Spain. He also served in the Air Force and he did coaching. Wow. You know, just real quick, I remember I was a starting pitcher and we traveled to a tournament and I just didn't, you know, I didn't do well. I wasn't doing— he had to take me out of the game. And an assistant coach was talking to him offline about, hey, that's the best you got? He was saying all these things about me. And I heard the coach defend me. And I think that's the kind of people we need in our lives, that they know, they believe in us, that, hey, we're not a one-mistake thing, or, hey, your performance, we're going to learn and grow from it.

Wow, that is just amazing. So if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, who would you choose and why? They could be alive, dead, or mythical figures.

Okay, first off, it would be the greatest emperor who ever have lived, Marcus Aurelius.

Okay.

I would absolutely, you know, he wrote Meditations, which he didn't want to publish clearly, as they mentioned. Definitely want him at the table. Um, I think because of the Stoic nature of clarity in mind and control and what you can't control and just the philosophy itself, I would love to learn more from him. Uh, I'm sure this is a popular guest as well, but Jesus.

Mm-hmm.

I think that, that level of purpose and courage, how do, how do you go beyond that where it's like, okay, I'm going to that laying your life down, which is something that resonates in all of the military as far as, you know, what that means. And then, yeah, and then one that honestly, I think this is what would happen, BZ. I think this next person would knock on the door or ring the doorbell and I'd go answer it. And when he walks in and he sits at the table, I think both Marcus Aurelius and Jesus would say, okay, it makes sense. And it would be Captain Lance P. Syjohn.

Hmm.

Shot down in 1967. Couldn't— couldn't— his legs, he was just broken hips. He couldn't walk. Evaded for 6 weeks on his arms alone, just dragging himself through the wilderness. Was eventually caught. He took down a guard and escaped again for a couple hours. Then they put him in another prison and they tortured— they did some really horrific things to him. But everyone who was there who survived, those POWs, said he never broke. He never said a word. He never did anything against his country or his, um, the people with him. I'm just telling you, the, the courage and the amount of, of, of courage that you have to have in that moment. I would just, I would like to, I would like to have him at the table really to learn more about him and just how powerful, how he, how he just was able to have that much courage under the, the most extreme, you know, measures.

That is really amazing. And I know I asked you some of the books you would recommend. This was one of them. Why would you recommend this book?

Holocaust Survivor, when it talks about looking forward to things, and this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, right? Have something to look forward to. And it's got to be something beyond a season or beyond, because we don't know how long the season is going to last. So I think this way, this mindset, that's the mindset, right? So if you want a certain result, We got to know how and what we need to think in order to get that result, and then how and what strategy, what we need to do, right, to get that result. And so I think there's a lot of, a lot of good information from Viktor Frankl in the book.

Fantastic. All right, Dominica says we already had dinner together, so I snuck into that list. That's fantastic. All right, so, uh, you are the first one you, you get, get me more, more than just a couple of books. It's a lot, it's like 15 books. We won't have time to, to go through All of them, but one that does come a lot, How to Win Friends and Influence People. Many people this year have mentioned that one. Why is that book important?

Because it's timeless.

Yes, yes.

It's about the— it's about, you know, using someone's first name.

That is so powerful.

In fact, I actually— this is one of the books that when I became a commander, um, it was Chief Berberich, and we like to read books, and I was like, hey, have you read this one? And he said, no, I haven't. And he read it, and when after he read it, it was a complete shift.

Wow.

And that's the power of that book.

Yes. So we, we already talked about, uh, oh no, not this one, uh, Brené Brown, this one, uh, Dare to Lead. And you also mentioned Marcus Aurelius. You think the greatest emperor we ever lived. Some people might argue with you on that, but meditation, definitely a book that should read. Yeah. So I'll go back to this one, uh, Ego Is the Enemy. Can you tell us a bit about that?

So Ryan Holiday is one of my favorite authors, and in fact, you know, it's, it's ego gets a lot of organizations in trouble, okay? A lot of times it comes from that fear, uh, and so this is again that emotional intelligence. For me, Ego Is the Enemy is one of those, and by the way, I don't demonize the ego, I don't vilify the ego, I don't think the inner critic is a villain either. I think we have a table and you welcome everybody to the table.

Yes.

Yes. And if they want— and by the way, whoever the other emperor is who's great, have them sit at the table too. I would love to see Marcus Aurelius and this emperor kind of go back and forth.

Yes.

Yes.

It's pretty cool. Lincoln on leadership. I don't think you have to say much about this one.

Leadership by management, by walking around. Get out there and see your troops.

The warrior ethos.

The warrior ethos. Steven Pressfield. Talk about the story that I actually use in my speech from this book when the first time Uh, General Epaminondas of Thebes defeated the Spartans. Yes, the battle.

Have you read this one too?

Oh, I haven't read that one yet, but it's on my list. Yes, Gates of Power.

I hear that you definitely need to read it, especially, uh, my book is page 412. I think the best, best definition of leadership anywhere.

Oh my God.

Okay, I will tell His Majesty what a king is. A king does not abide within his tent while his men bleed and die upon the field. That's the definition of servant leadership. Boom! Powerful. Okay, uh, okay, actually we've already run out of time. Can you give me like 7 more minutes? Or you have—

let's go, you got it.

Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Because this is very, very important. This is why I do this. Awareness, Anthony de Mello. Yes.

Okay, awareness. I had to read it 2 or 3 times. It blew my mind. It blew my mind. It challenged every belief that I've ever, ever had. It challenged who I am as a person. It completely just opens up your horizons to like, wait a minute, you know, almost like you're in The Matrix. And then he's like, wait, are you? It, it's just one of these books that it— just give it, give it time. In fact, I, I used to try to look for his old lectures. He, he is a funny guy too, by the way. He, he was, right? He was. Unfortunately, you know, he's been been gone for a while now, but yeah.

Amazing.

Oh, this book. Okay. This is the first book. Yeah. First book that I read that really had a lot to do with mindset. So, you know, we often think we know a lot, but we really don't know a lot. And then this book challenged me to really think about, wait a minute, are you limiting yourself? Wait a minute. What is thinking big? Like, what, how does that work? Power Versus Force. Oh goodness gracious.

Okay.

This is one of those books that's kind of, you know, you got to be ready for it. But I would say this, the most powerful thing about this book is the maps of consciousness. And so this is very important. Some of the negative lower states of energy would be shame, guilt, anger, right? Even pride for that matter. So think about it. If we feel shame and guilt, most people, by the way, harm themselves when they're in shame, right? So the way you reach, move through that is If someone's in shame, then you tell them, hey, you start to walk them up the ladder to the point they feel pride in themselves and maybe their last name and what they've done. But the changing point here is courage. All greatness starts with courage, Bizzy. Name anything that's ever been accomplished in this world, that's been developed in this world, and didn't start with courage, okay? I don't think there's anything. So courage. Oh, okay, The Economy of Leadership. This is great. So a lot of people read Extreme Ownership, right?

Yeah.

Which is fantastic. And then what did you see though out there? Everybody's like, hey, accountability. There was kind of like this, you know, Navy SEAL Jocko, you know. And then they're like, guys, let's kind of tone it down.

Yes.

It's a dichotomy of leadership.

Okay.

There's two sides here. All right. And they do an outstanding job of kind of dissecting that.

Yeah.

Very, very good. Oh, this is negotiation. Okay. I've got to tell you this one. So I actually used this in innovation for headquarters AETC when I was a commander. So one of the things that he says is, if you're not getting a response from somebody, say, "Hey, have you given up?" Don't say anything else. Just say, "Have you given up?" So we were promised all this stuff and innovation, and I wrote the director and I just said, "Hey," 'cause I talked to him out in the campus. I was like, "Hey, sir." And he was like, "Yeah, we got you, we're good." And so I just said, you know, "Good afternoon, sir. Have you given up on the innovation or innovation program?" I got a phone call, BZ. He didn't email me back, he called me back.

So, wow, it worked.

Yeah, it was really powerful. Oh my gosh, The Passion of Command, BP McCoy. Let me just tell you this quote that he said in, in a panel. He said, is there enough evidence to convict you of being a great leader?

Wow, say that again. That is powerful.

Is there enough— is there enough evidence to convict you of being a great leader.

That is amazing. Wow. Chills.

Chills.

This is worth the price of admission right there. Wow. Powerful.

Yeah. Oh, Darren Roberts. He's Coach Roberts, by the way. He's an amazing speaker. He's a big top voice on LinkedIn, wrote the book. He's got other books too, but Micro Wins actually helped me get organized again after I retired. Because remember I was telling you, I was going through this sadness. I was going, what am I supposed to do in purpose? And he's like, okay, you gotta have, you know, a health, my, it's just little micro wins every day.

That is, that is really fantastic. And finally, this one, One Mission.

One Mission. You remember Team of Teams?

Yeah.

With General McChrystal. Okay. When this book came out, One Mission, it really told you how to implement it.

Yes.

Okay. This is about a shared consciousness with your entire team.

Powerful.

This is about how do you actually have one mission where it's so inspirational and it's now at the level where you can basically inject it into the hearts of the people so that when they're executing, you're all on the same page. This is the team of teams kind of manual.

Wow. Mission first, people always. Oh, right. Okay. So we are getting toward the end. What is maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

I, I would say I'm not sure about life's thing. I love a bunch of movies, by the way, but I think when it comes to, uh, recently I watched— not, well, not recently, maybe a few months ago or longer— a movie, Wild Robot. And it's an animated movie, and I watched it with my daughter. And there is a couple songs in there that, that— anyways, there's a scene in there where, you know, they're flying away. I won't go through the whole story, But I looked over on my— and I started tearing up. I'm like, what's happening to me? Like, I'm 40, I'm 49 years old, like, what's up?

Wow.

And, and then, and I look over at my daughter and she's got tears, right?

Wow.

And it was in that moment where I realized that connection, right? So to me, it's like all-time favorite with that moment. That moment really created that love because one day she's going to kiss the sky, she has to fly away. And am I doing my very best to give her the best opportunity to kiss the the sky.

Powerful, powerful. Okay, again, toward the end now. If you had the magic wand, you can solve any problem you wanted, uh, what is, uh, one problem you would like to solve when you wake up in the morning?

One problem that I would like to solve is that people wake up and they pursue, right, their purpose. They pursue their purpose in a way where they understand that it's going to take courage, but I want them to live their purpose. All of us have something to give.

All right?

All of us have something to give. And if we all figure out what that is and we actually have the courage to pursue it, this world will continue to become a better and better place to live. And I'll tell you this real quick, Bizzy. Thousands of—

there's—

I mean, think about ancestors who went through all kinds of conditions so we could be here today. No matter what we're going through, they survived it. They made it through. We can be a person where we make it through for the next generation. So find that purpose and drive towards it.

Wow, powerful. So if you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Uh, that's that— I'd spend it with my daughter Eva, and, and I would say, ask away, darling, what do you want to know? But the main thing is, at the end of that day, I would want her to— I always say, hey Eva, what are the three things that I tell you? And it's be brave, be strong, and be kind. And so I say, be brave, because if you're going to do anything in this world, you got to be brave, you got to be courageous. But when you step out there, you got to be strong because people are going to say things, people are going to do things, you're going to face self-doubt. So you have to be strong. And lastly, be kind to those around you, but most importantly, be kind to yourself, because as you go through it, you're going to need that. You need that kindness, that grace that you show yourself.

So many wisdom nuggets. Okay, thank you, thank you so much. Thanks, Emilien, for your time and your wisdom. I feel like I could be speaking to you for another 2 or 3 hours. So what can we do to add value back to you? Thanks again for everything, uh, you've done.

I love this conversation. Thank you, Bizzy, you're great, you're outstanding. Thank you. I, I think the best contribution is to just share the message, you know, and, and I don't mean— I mean, share it because you believe in it and you think it's going to help to live your life, to live your dreams, to get out there, you know, and, and really inspire courage in others., and by doing so and encouraging others, they're going to live their best life. So I'm actually doing a talk, a speech, a virtual event with Dream Bank on the 19th. So that'll be a lot of fun. And it's the power of purpose and courage, how to build a life of your dream that you dream of. And I think that's what it's about. If anybody wants to help, you can check out the website. We do have some merch, by the way, because people say, hey, we love your logo. We love the Lead Without Fear. And we said, okay, they asked so many times. All right, let's do it. So we put up a um, all of our, all of our gear on there. But the best way to, to support us is to take the message out to the people.

Fantastic. And also, I wanted to know when your next best-selling book is going to be.

Uh, because I gotta have a first one, I guess.

Yeah. But really seriously, everyone, please follow Coach Alex on LinkedIn, Coach Alex Ramos, and then his website, coachalexramos.com. Come. All right, we are coming toward the end. Thanks, thanks again for, for your time. Um, before I ask you the last question, uh, is there something I should have asked you that I haven't asked yet?

I, I don't— I think you have really good questions, BZ. I think, you know, you got to the heart of the issues and the way that we kind of work through that. I think there's some really— I think what I love about your, your channel and I love about your podcast is there's a little bit of everything for everybody. There's going to be a portion of what you, you present and how you ask your questions and carry yourself that it's going to resonate with, with your audience. So I don't think there's any other question you should ask me.

All right. So I think the most important question then I need to ask you is if you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, what would you say to 17-year-old Alex Ramos?

So we're going to go full circle here from the beginning.

Yes.

So what, what, what did you say to yourself in the beginning.

Yeah, it's going to be all right.

Everything's gonna be all right. Yes, everything you're going through, my friend, I know it's just building you for your future. Okay, so just everything is going to be okay. And I'm gonna— I'll share this last thing with you. Uh, the, the first time I asked, I was going through a counseling session and the, the, the counselor told me, you know, hey, everything's gonna be all right. And I never believed. There came a point with all the work that we did where I said, "Everything's going to be all right," and I believed it.

Wow.

And I believed it. But if we quit, we can't get to that place, right? So, I tell that 17-year-old, "Everything is going to be all right," and then I'll play Three Little Birds.

That is very, very powerful. And it really means something to me because my first name is Bob. My father was Robert. He got called Bob when he went to Germany. I guess that is English. Now, my middle name, The first one, Fabien, very close to Fabio, but Fabien, some people call me Fabianier, but that's my French middle name. But the middle name I like the most, which I never use, is Minu, M-I-N-U. And in Lari, Kikongo, the original language of my ancestor, it means faith, it means hope. That's the name that my mother gave me that means the most to me. When I go through very difficult time, I always remember, what is your name? There may not be a way out right now, but I know some way, somehow things are going to work themselves out. And that's really a great mindset to have, to have resilience. And by the way, you do have an upcoming book, which I think Enrique told me was supposed to have come back in May or June of this year. It's not out yet, but— Oh, that's— So when is that going to be published? It's supposed to be out in July, right?

I think July. I got to double-check on the exact day, but yes, that's going to be great. What a compilation. Of stories and leadership. And by the way, there'll be something in there that nobody knows about, that not a lot of people know about, uh, that really is a vulnerable story that I shared back when I was in high school. So I highly recommend it. There's so many great leaders and authors there.

Yes, I should have you and Enrique back once the book is published. I think it's really, really important to do those things and really talk about each other's journeys and story because people really get inspired. Okay, to So to end really quickly, don't take too long to think, it's gonna be a lightning round. What is one word that defines leadership?

One word.

Courage.

Okay. Morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Daily Stoic, reading it every morning and a cup of coffee, black.

Very good. Book or quote that changed your life?

We often suffer more in imagination than reality, Seneca.

Powerful. Who inspired you the most today?

You did.

Thank you, man. This is like the third or fourth time you guys are doing this. I never expect myself to be in the story. Okay, thank you. I really do appreciate that. Finish the sentence. Leadership is inspiring courage.

And I would say leadership is the ability to Inspire people towards a common goal to complete it, but that goal or task or whatever it is you're leading towards, this is the most important part in my opinion, is anchored in purpose and fueled with courage.

Hmm.

So we can influence and inspire all the way, but if it's anchored in purpose, right? And it's fueled by courage, that's where you gain the strength, not only as an organization, as a leader and as a team.

Wow, that is really, really, really powerful. Actually, I'm going to try something I've never done before. Enrique, I know you are there. Let me see if I can get you on this podcast for just a couple of minutes before we let Coach Alex go. Let me see if I can send you this link. Just a second. I'm finding you on my DM. Man, I'm going to need to have my daughter be my production expert, but, uh, for some reason she wants to get paid. Can you guys believe that?

Yeah, then you put on your taxes, you're good to go. Yeah, you have an employee.

Yeah, I should, I should, I should, I should do that. Okay, Enrique, I just sent you a link on, uh, LinkedIn. If you can click on that and join us for just a second, that would be fantastic. Uh, okay, gone. Okay. Back here, and it is sent. All right, so, uh, very, very last question I will ask again really quickly. What did you want to be when you were a kid?

I want to be a fighter pilot.

Yeah, and you pretty much kind of did this, my friend.

I got to fly— actually, I did. I got to fly as a T-38 back in, uh, uh, in San Antonio. I got to fly on the F-15, uh, all the D models, F-16s. Loved it. I, I wouldn't change a thing. My— one of my favorite missions though was a rescue mission, uh, HH-60 helicopters back, the 33rd Rescue Squadron, working with them in Okinawa. One, uh, unfortunately we lost, uh, Dave Wisniewski. Uh, he went by Wiz. Um, we lost him when he was shot down. Uh, they hit the tail of the, of the aircraft. But, uh, I'm just telling you what those missions that others may live, the things that they do, it's just— I, I'm just incredibly honored to be among a group of warriors that, uh, that, that risk it all. And to do your part in that, regardless of what your role is, to do it to the best of your ability. If you're out there and you obviously you have a lot of listeners and you have a lot of great people that, that, that, that listen to you and watch the show, give it everything you got, but take care of yourself at the same time.

Yes. Wow, that is, that is really powerful. Okay, we have a surprise guest. Surprise guest. Let me see if I can get him really quick. I've never done this before.

Wow, supporting my brother, man.

Supporting my brother.

Let's, let's put you on, on the main screen here. All right, Senior Chief, what do you say?

What do I say?

What?

I mean, you can't get a better guess. I don't know why you asked me on when you can't ask him. Phenomenal, right? He's a blessing, uh, always has been since day one. And I, I'm just here to support him, man.

Now, for some reason he didn't join the Navy, he joined the, um, much, much inferior Air Force. But hey, he's your brother anyway.

I don't know, I'm your tiebreaker because I actually went to the Air Force first. They said go to the Navy.

Oh my goodness. So actually, I have great respect for the Air Force. My, my father-in-law was in the Air Force active duty. Retired as a Tech Sergeant E-5. Great, great respect. But, wow, what a day. But what's also amazing when you meet someone who's been in the military, like, I remember when I first met you, Coach Enrique, it's like I've known you my entire life. And same thing with Coach Alex. We just met really officially for the first time now. But tell me, Coach Enrique, since you are here, what do you think the aspiring leader, and especially those going through transition right now, based on the discussion I've been having with Coach Alex, what do you think the people really need to know?

Uh, you know, and Alex said this one, he said open your heart, right? Uh, leadership without heart being at the center is a flawed leadership model. You are actually asking for things to happen in the wrong way. When you don't lead from the heart. And so if I was to speak to leaders in general, it says, you know, if your heart's not in it, don't do it. Don't do it. It's okay to say no to a promotion. It's okay to say no to extra money, but it's not right to say yes to destroying people's lives because you're incapable of making sure that you are the best version of you to lead them through their today and tomorrow, right? So that's, that's what I would say.

Okay, that is so powerful. Yes, please, uh, Coach, Coach Alex, say more.

Wow, I, I think, you know, you're spot on. And, and let me, you know, just kind of raise your hand if you've ever been led by a leader that helped you experience the joy of what you had to do. Yeah, we all have, right? So, so I, I truly believe this, that every single person deserves the opportunity to be led by a great leader, to experience what it's like, that joy. But it's also an amazing thing, like, like Enrique was saying, to be a leader that you experience that joy by leading a group.

Wow.

Like, to experience the joy of leadership on both sides. It's, it's an experience that you don't forget. We still talk about them. You talked about what, what, you know, how— why are you successful? Enrique. Yes, he, he said, hey, come on. He said he took me under his wing. So it's just those leaders and those, those who are contributing like you are, BZ, to the world in this way where we have the opportunity to do so, you know, we all deserve that opportunity to experience that joy of leadership.

That is really, really powerful because it takes me back throughout my Navy career. It's true from time to time the Navy promotes the wrong people, but for the most part, it's really, really great, great leaders, the best ever. In the military, we don't make as much money as the industry, but no, just tell me about somebody at Microsoft or IBM or Google who's willing to give their life for the employee to their right or to their left. You're never gonna see that, right? And just know that's why really during Veterans Day, I want to honor all of the veterans, even those who've only served one day in uniform, any branches of the military. It's, it is really, uh, a different type of life. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I, I mean, I mean, I'm just overwhelmed. We could go on and on, but I need, I need to bring this, this show to the end. So quickly, for you, uh, Coach Alex, um, 3 adjectives describing you as a kid.

As a kid? Oh, I would say I was I was an outdoorsman, I guess. I was always outside. I was skateboarding. Yeah, I would say I was curious, you know, just about, you know, just life in general. And, um, the last thing I, I would say, I was a, I was a fighter, I guess, you know.

Okay, what about as an adult?

As an adult, I think I've been more approachable, compassionate, And just service.

Okay. And the final, final question. Thank you again. We've gone 24 minutes over time, but like I said, I could talk with you for hours and hours. But thank you so much for allowing us to do this. Very, very last question, and this is it. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today?

Inspirational. I think for me, what it is, is this type of community and this type of of, you know, dialogue is, is needed. It, it makes me— my heart full to know that, you know, what you're doing is not only giving a voice to so many people who want to serve, who want to continue to contribute, right? But when we're talking this way and we're connecting this way, and like you said, just by wearing the uniform and being veterans ourselves, we already have this incredible amount of trust and belief in one another. And the fact that we get to do this in a different way now, and you are providing the opportunity for us to do so, and you're bringing so much information, knowledge, experiences, and value. To me, it brings me great, I guess, you know, also joy. It brings great joy to share this experience with you. And like I said earlier, I want to definitely learn more about your story that you shed a little bit of it earlier before we got on.

Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Lieutenant Colonel retired, US Air Force. Alex Ramos, thank you, thank you. I guess I just feel grateful. I always feel that way, but thanks again and salute to you, everything you've done for this country and what you continue to do to really add positive value. So everybody follow him on coachalexramos.com and on LinkedIn in Alex— Coach Alex Ramos. So the same thing. So thanks again and really appreciate that, coach.

All right, lead without fear.

All right everyone, that was our Coach Alex Ramos, and you saw our brother from another mother, Senior Chief Enrique Acosta Gonzalez. This was just wonderful, not expected. Really, my, my heart is very, very full right now. Really quickly, I will be back here tomorrow. Tomorrow is Thursday, and I'm going to be with Coach Divya Smith. She's an investor, entrepreneur, and executive. We're going to be talking about building generational wealth. And then on Friday, I'm gonna be on doing the 10-minute artificial intelligence recap from the great leadership conversation I had with my mentor, Shirley Archambault, Fortune 500 board director, strategic advisor, bestselling author, and keynote speaker. She's one of the best people you will ever, ever meet. Every time I see her, I always tell her, whenever I grow up, I want to be just like her. All right, that's what we have for today. I'm going to play a little tribute to veterans, and so many of veterans have really honored me by coming on the show, like Senior Chief Gonzalez, like Lieutenant Colonel Ramos, and so many others. And really, my heart is overjoyed. So I'm gonna play this one tribute to all of the veterans for Veterans Day. I'm really, really grateful for all of the work that you've done to keep our country great and really to support and defend our Constitution. That's one of that every single military person takes. And, uh, it's just amazing, uh, how much unselfishness and servant leadership and sacrifice and just the things we do for our brothers and sisters. So thank you.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Bisi. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and Join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.