S4:E112 🎙️LIVE with Dominique West (Multi Tracks Audio)

¡Hola!

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Hi everyone, I'm Dominique West and I'm so excited to be joining Coach BZ on the Leadership and Success Podcast. S podcast. I'm a cybersecurity and governance executive, an educator, and a lifelong learner. Over the past 15 years, from startups to global enterprises, I've worked across many industries leading programs that help organizations build trust through secure, scalable, and inclusive security practices. I'm also the founder of Security in Color and Evolving Seasons, two communities I'm that are focused on making cybersecurity more accessible and helping professionals grow with confidence, clarity, and purpose. As a LinkedIn Learning instructor, I'm passionate about teaching others that security isn't just about technology. It's about people, relationships, and reliability. In today's episode, we'll explore how to lead with authenticity, how to make inclusion a strategic advantage, and how trust is the foundation Trust, not fear, builds the strongest security culture. I can't wait to share this conversation with you. Thank you, Coach Bizzy, for the invitation, and to everyone tuning in, get ready for a real discussion on leadership, growth, and the human side of cybersecurity. Let's dive in.

All right everyone, this is Coach Bizzy. Thank you so much for being with us today. I am coming from an undisclosed location today, but I have a very, very special guest. And before we get started, actually, let me first give a shout out to David. David F says he's grateful today for coffee and Cloudflare. And by the way, David, it looks like there was a huge, huge Cloudflare outage today. A significant portion of the internet went down. So they probably need to do a little bit better with their security or configuration or something. But anyway, thank you so much for sharing. And also, David, let us know where you are coming from. And for everybody else who is watching live, please let us know where you are joining us from, what city, what state, and if outside of the US, since we have a global audience now, which country. And like David, please let us know what you are grateful for. I think it's very important to have the attitude of gratitude. And also, if you have a question for my guest, please type it in the comment, and I'm going to make sure she answers your question live right here on LinkedIn. YouTube. Okay, our moment of gratitude. This takes less than a minute, and part of the reason why I do this is because in the military— I've been in the Navy for 21 years now— there is a huge epidemic where about 21, 22 veterans commit suicide every single day. And I think it's impossible to be suicidal and grateful at the very same time. We really need to improve our mental health and focus on that. So if you are able to, I ask that you maybe close your eyes if you can, take a deep breath, and take a moment to think about one thing that you are grateful for today. I think I am really grateful for relationship, for people. I really believe I've never met a stranger in my life. That's just the way I think. I think everybody is my friend. And I really love adding value to other people, and many times they add value back to me. And so many times in my life, people I don't even know, they've gone above and beyond and they've helped me and allowed me to be the man I am today. And there is no way for me to pay them back, but I can always pay it forward. So that's what I am grateful for, our global community. I think there's so much more that we have in common than that separate us. Okay, so, uh, let me see if I can properly introduce our guest, or at least I am going to try. Uh, very, very glad to have a cybersecurity expert and also an entrepreneur with us, uh, today. So, uh, Dominique West is a visionary cybersecurity and, uh, GRC executive, right? Governance, risk, and compliance. She's redefining what leadership, inclusion, and trust look like in today's digital world. From building high-impact programs at Datadog and Tamper to founding Security in Color and evolving Seasons, Dominique is on a mission to make cybersecurity accessible, empowering, and human. So she's gonna be joining me today, and we are going to have a great time. Again, if you have a question for her, please type it in the comment. Ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome Dominique West. Hey Dominique, how are you doing today?

I'm well. What a great intro.

Fantastic. Good morning. We actually happen to be in the same city. That's my undisclosed location, but glad to see you on the screen. Maybe to get started, is there anything you are grateful for this morning?

Yeah, I am grateful for time. Time is a valuable resource that I have been fixated on, it feels like my whole life, and I'm in a space where I actually have time to have slow mornings, right, to think things through, to be present with myself, with my family and my friends. And that's, that's something I, I, yeah, I'm eternally grateful for because I know that's really hard to come by these days, is to get time and space to be able to do something. So yeah, I'll say I'm grateful for that today.

Well, that is, that is really powerful. It's really, um, one resource that we really cannot redeem. Once it's gone, it is gone. And yeah, I remember another wise saying, teach us to number our days because our life can be very, very short. And sometimes in my experience, people really chase after the wrong things or things that really don't matter in the long run. But yeah, managing time is definitely crucial. And we're probably going to be talking about that too. Is there something about you, Dominique, that most people may not know?

Yeah, most people probably, unless you're like my close family and friends, but most people don't know that I am into K-pop. And I'm a huge K-pop fan. Yeah, so much so that my best friend and I, we went to South Korea to go see some of our favorite Korean bands. Yeah, we had a fantastic time. And so yeah, I'm super excited about K-pop.

That's wonderful. Is BTS one of those groups?

It is BTS. Yep. I cannot wait for them to go on tour next year.

Actually, next year. Yeah, my daughter told me about it, so we are looking for tickets.

Listen, let her tell her we're gonna be in the same classroom.

Yeah, because I know that I think they came Was it 2 years ago, right before the pandemic? I think we almost went to Las Vegas, but we couldn't get tickets.

Oh yeah, it's hard. Yeah, no, they sell out so quickly. So it's going to be like a Hunger Games for next year.

I mean, I'm still trying to get my head around that because when I was growing up in the Congo, American music is really what was taking over the entire world. But now having Americans singing Korean songs, especially Black Americans, that's just amazing. Like, I went to France, was it 2 years ago? Some of my nieces and nephew, Black African European kids, again dancing and singing all of this K-pop music. I'm like, this is unheard of. Wow.

Yeah, it's a phenomenon.

And also my daughter says that BTS, for example, they do a lot of collab with African American artists too. I guess music is global, but it's just amazing to see.

You get to connect even if you don't speak the same language. I love it. Yeah.

Yes. Wow. That is, that is, that is, that is quite amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about your leadership journey, how you, you got to, um, be the cybersecurity executive and leader that you are today?

Yeah, I always start with my beginning story. It's very personal into the cybersecurity space. I remember it like it was yesterday. I had received a text message. I don't know if you recall, like, you know, when you get an alert from your bank to say, hey, is this a fraudulent transaction? I received one, and so did my mom, where it said, hey, you purchased $800 worth of Babies R Us. And at the time, I was in college, so I know I didn't shop at Babies R Us, and I'm my mom's baby. And so I know she's not shopping for Babies R Us. And so That experience, right, of having that— it was credit card fraud. That experience kind of led me down a rabbit hole of hacking to say, hey, well, you know, what store did you go to recently? Did we go— did we shop at the same place? Is this place hacked and they don't know, right? It kind of led me down a rabbit hole which opened the door to cybersecurity, right? Incident response, all that kind of good jazz. And so Yeah, ever since then I've been fully immersed into the cybersecurity space because it has the challenges and experiences. Every single day something new happens. As we know, we saw with the comment from David about Cloudflare, right? And so I enjoy things like that where every day is a brand new experience to learn something, to figure out something. It's kind of like a— I love puzzles. And so yeah, that was my journey into this space and Ever since then, I always call myself a generalist. I have tried a little bit of everything. And so I've worked in healthcare before, I've worked for startups, I've worked for large consulting firms. I've tried being, uh, you know, I worked in a security operations center or a SOC. I was an analyst and done penetration testing, right? And so I've tried a little bit of everything to figure out what do I like, what, um, where can I thrive, and Naturally, over some years, you start to, you know, when you do a good job, you start to get a little bit more responsibilities. And that I, at the time I was doing like mentorship, right? I had people coming to me asking questions, how did I get to where I am? And that kind of naturally led me into the leadership space, right? Because I'm a firm believer, if I, I know I know something or that I'm pretty well at the topic, if I can teach someone, And so getting into the teaching space really helped my leadership journey. I used to be an adjunct professor at Georgia Tech here in Atlanta. I've done some others at Yeshiva University in New York City, and that really helped kind of hone in my leadership experience in terms of how do I connect with others, how do I teach them, how do I get them to think, right, and find answers and be successful in this space. And that kind of has helped me as I myself has climbed in my career to become the leader that I am today.

And that is really, really fascinating, talking about leadership. So we are on the Leadership and Success Podcast. Can you share with us, uh, because you've shared openly that you are in the business of building trust, which I think is really critical. So when did you first realize that trust and not technology was really the heart of your leadership journey?

Yeah, that happened for me when I realized I had lost trust in my own leadership before. Right. That's not a great place to be in because I know if I'm coming behind someone's mission, right, I'm trying to work towards a goal. And if I can't trust you, that's really hard to show up every day. Right. It's really hard to connect it's really hard to, to, uh, just make progress. And so that experience let me know that, hey, first and foremost, as I am trying to build teams, as I'm trying to, you know, build towards success and, and drive, you know, whatever orgs that I'm working with, their mission— first and foremost, I'm dealing with people, right? And we tend to sometimes forget that when we show up to work every day, right? Because it's very easy to get lost in your emails, lost in your to-do list, lost in all the things that you want. But on the other side of that email on the other side of this meeting, right, or this conversation is a person. And so if that person doesn't trust you, right, or doesn't trust that you have their best interests or know how to guide them, it is really difficult to be successful. It's really difficult to lead a team when there's distrust because that's what you're going to be focused on right now. I'm just focusing on people. I'm not focusing on the work, and that's what I care about. I want to focus on the work, right? I want to show up. I want to make sure I'm doing a good job. I want to make sure that we're where you're making progress to whatever we're trying to do. And that's hard when maybe you forget about the people who's— that you're asking them, right? Like you're asking them to show up every day for 8 hours a day to work towards something. And so, yeah, that experience definitely informed how I show up as a leader, which is now showing up with empathy first, right, for the people who I'm trying to lead, who I'm trying to connect with. And I've just found that, that way forward has brought me more success than perhaps some other ways that I've experienced.

Well, that is really powerful. And I know you've also said, and I completely agree, that security is about relationship and reliability. We just talked about trust. How does a trust-first security culture look like inside? High-pressure organizations are really industry we are, we are in.

Yeah, that looks like reaching out to others. There's a pretty negative connotation when it comes to security, right? We work in silos, we're blockers, we are the hammer that comes down. It's all kinds of euphemisms that you want to use. And so I, um, yeah, I always want to take the tone of collaboration. And so for leaders, that could look like, hey, if I work at an engineering first organization, right? I'm gonna go join the engineers where they are. I'm not going to expect them to necessarily come to me. It would be great, but I also have learned that I have to meet people where they are. And so sometimes that's— I've shown up to some of their maybe engineering demos, for example, or product demos, right? Or, um, I've been asked— I'll sometimes connect with the leaders to say, hey, can I join or sit in and shadow some of your meetings so I can learn like what your roadmap is? What are all talking about? What are the challenges you're experiencing? Um, I will do my own kind of, uh, what do you call that, rodeo show, where I'll go around to each leader like, hey, what's one challenge that, you know, security could help you with to help me build then a roadmap, right? Because that's an easy way for me to say, hey, if I can get some quick wins for these people, if I can show them that I'm coming with a tone of collaboration, it's much easier than when I need to maybe come and make some changes or to have to implement something or to provide a solution, right, that, um, I'm trying to get some buy-in from. And so I've also learned that speaking the language of your audience will take you much further. I have fallen into the trap myself where I want to talk about, you know, mean time to detection and all of these other cybersecurity jargon, or babble as my coach calls it, and that goes over the head of people. They don't understand me and we're speaking two different languages. And so Understanding who your audience is. And so if it's engineers, right, it's asking them, you know, you're talking about implementation, right? It's about friction. If you're talking to finance, you're talking about cost, right? If you're talking to HR, you're talking about people. And it's having that awareness to say, who am I talking to? How can I connect with them? And then how do I bring— how do I make sure we're just talking the same language?

Well, that is really, really powerful. Definitely show a lot of maturity. And you are right, I know like 20, 25 years ago cybersecurity used to be called the department of no, and that is so wrong, right?

It's so hard to get over that.

Yeah, but we have to enable the business, right? Find a way to do whatever it is that the business strategy is asking for in a safe and secure way by managing— not taking care of a risk because you cannot do that, but Managing risk to acceptable, uh, level. So when, when you, uh, uh, lead your team, how do you coach members of your team to stay grounded in purpose, especially when the demands for cybersecurity feel overwhelming at times?

Yeah, it always starts with your why. I've learned that the hard way, is understanding, like, Why are you here? You know, why are you doing this? What are you interested in? And so whenever, especially if I'm maybe being introduced to a new team or just in general, it's like, hey, like, do you know your why? Because it's easy to forget that, right? Because like I said, when you show up every day, you will already have 10 things that will grab your attention, pull you away from the purpose that you maybe set out for or the energy you wanted to bring to the table today. I always start with my team members like, do you understand your why? Are you clear on that? I have notes on my own desk about reminding me, right, about things because it's easy to forget. And then once you kind of understand your why, it's also remembering that, hey, take a second. There is power in a pause. It's very easy to get into reactive mode, right? When it— especially when things are on fire. And at that time is when it's most crucial to have some calm. And so I'm very big on wellness practices being a part of my routine in order to be successful in cybersecurity. And that's something that I emphasize to other people as well, because yes, you can know what to do and be prepared and everything of that nature. But when stuff hits the fan, it's, hey, do you remember to go back to that? Did you take a pause? Did you take a breath so you can respond accurately and that you're not coming from a state of chaos? Because that's just not helpful in a situation that's already pretty stressful. And so I do try to emphasize wellness practices to my team members so that way they know how they can handle stressful situations because it is a— cybersecurity is a stressful environment. Like, regardless if we don't think so or not, it is. It could be pretty stressful. And I've seen thousands of articles about burnout from all levels, right? From those who are from entry level all the way up to CISOs. And so it's really trying to figure out how do we address stressful environment that isn't changing. It's just getting more complex, right? And it's just getting crazier as AI and other technology get introduced. And so, yeah, for me at least, I found what has been helpful for me and what I share with others is what's your why? Why are you here? What do you want to do? Are you clear about that? Are you clear about who you are? And then two, what tools do you have in your toolkit? I'm big on having a toolkit, right? And so what tools are in your toolkit that can help you address whatever situation? Is it I need to go meditate for 5 seconds? Is it I need to call in my friend? I need to take a walk, right? Is it, hey, before I respond to a high-pressure maybe conversation, do I need to take a pause? Do I need to, you know, reframe and ask back to you about what was just being asked to me, right? And so there's a number of different ways that you can handle things, but maybe the second thing I was— yeah, make sure you have a toolkit so that way whatever situation is happening, you can just pick out of it.

Wow, that is, uh, really very insightful. I must say I'm really amazed by your level of maturity, but also the impact you are adding, not just in cybersecurity and in leadership, but it looks like you're also trying to diverse this, uh, industry. So you founded Security in Color to make cybersecurity accessible for underrepresented communities, uh, definitely community I'm very, very much, uh, passionate about? What inspired you in that mission?

Yeah, I remember it clear as day, right before the pandemic, I was in a space where the community I was interested in participating in and looking for didn't reflect the identity I, I show up with every day, right? And so a great example would be I would go to meetups right, in-person, yeah, meetups that were geared for technology. One, a lot of them were either geared for developers or user experience designers, not really a lot of cybersecurity professionals. And then when I did find them, they were men, which is not a problem, um, but there wasn't a lot of women, and there definitely wasn't a lot of women of color. And so, and then when I look to learn a little, a lot more, right, so when I'm looking for Hey, what's the latest in cybersecurity news, right? What are people talking about? A lot of the people in those spaces didn't reflect me. And so I had went and created Security in Color as a way to have a voice, right, in this field and to say like, hey, I have a perspective, a perspective that I know resonates with a lot of other people who look like me or not. And I wanted to, yeah, essentially just do something about it. And so it was a great experience and that has has now evolved into Evolving Seasons, which is another evolution of this journey, right? Because at that time with Security in Color, this was kind of at the start of my maybe leadership or transition from, you know, individual collaborator to leadership. And so now that I'm, you know, more than a couple of years into this leadership space, right, I find myself there again in a leadership space, right? There's not a lot of Black women who are leaders in the cybersecurity industry, right? And I know in the headlines that we see today, right, a lot of women are being pushed out of the workforce. And so this is my attempt at showing my process, right? Because process is something that we normally don't see. We see success, right? And sometimes we might see failure, but we don't see this in between. And that's where I am right now. I'm in this in-between space, right, where I'm—

I'm—

I have goals and things I'm trying to get to. I have a person who I was before, and I'm attempting to close that gap. And I'm hoping that showing my process will allow other people who might be in a very similar position to say, oh yeah, I too feel that way. Let me try this out. Or more importantly, what I'm hoping is that they can see someone who is successful in this process and they can take something and also be successful in their own journey. Right? Because that's my goal is like, I want someone to be able to take something be successful, have your own voice, right, and, and do what you need to do.

Wow, that is quite powerful. What do you think most leaders get wrong about diversity and inclusion in cybersecurity or tech in general?

Oh, what do the leaders get wrong? Um, yeah, I would speak— if I'm maybe speaking from my perspective, I tend to always Give me one second. Maybe I would say we tend to talk more when we should probably listen, because being able to have diverse perspectives in the room requires more listening than I think kind of talking. And for me, it's always, hey, there's enough room for everybody, right? We tend to have this concept of I have to be the only, I have to be the first, there's not enough seats, there's not enough room. I think that just comes from a very scarcity mindset. And so at least how I'm trying to shift and showcase things is there is room for everybody here, right? And it might be a perspective that you maybe don't agree, you cannot understand. It's okay to have differing perspectives. Perspectives. But what you shouldn't do is try to stop someone from having that voice or perspective. And so a lot of that comes from, like, understanding and being able to connect and to have empathy. Just comes a lot from listening. And that's something I tend to— I, I, you know, I fall into that trap before where I feel like I need to talk or overcompensate. And as a leader, I'm just trying to listen. How can I listen to perspectives from everyone? I might not agree, I might not understand, I might not come to that same conclusion, but I can listen. I can take in that information and I can decide what I want to do with it. But not having the ability to listen to different perspectives or not opening the doors or not pulling up a seat right at the table for someone is where I think we fall short. Because again, I think a lot of that sometimes come into scarcity. And it's easy when you're working at organizations where it's pressured. I don't have time to figure out how to make everyone feel comfortable. I don't have time to figure out how to create more seats at the table because I don't have money to have— you know, it's just, I understand how stressful it can be as a leader when you're in those types of situations. But I've also seen the other side with leaders who can, who create the time, carve out the time, right, to bring people to the table or to listen and understand, and how much success comes with that option. And so maybe that's— yeah, maybe that's what I'll say, at least for myself and for others where I've seen has gone wrong, is to say, if you want to be successful, it, it isn't just I need to be closed, right? Or I need to have a smaller, uh, table. You can bring more people to the table. There's enough space. You can carve out the time. It requires some intention.

Wow, that is quite Powerful. I think you need to say this again. We tend to talk more when we should probably listen. So true. One thing my mom used to say, right? God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason.

Eh, mama's right.

But yeah, so why do you think representation is not just a nice to have, but a strategic advantage for operational security?

Yeah, we are in a global world now, right? It's no longer just about the country you're living in.

We—

every business is global or attempting to be global, right? And when you look around the world, if you— I'm big on traveling, I love to travel. And so when you travel around the world, it, it looks very different from your hometown. And so in order to connect with those people, in order to get into those markets, you have to be able to understand, and you should probably bring people who understand those markets, those, those demographics way better than you probably do. Or you can go immerse yourself and learn. And so I think at this point, not having diversity in your business, in your teams, in your leadership, in your thought process is going to leave you left behind. Because the world is moving forward in that direction. And so for me, it's always part of my mind to say, okay, great, how can I collaborate? How can I bring other people into this, um, goal, into this organization, into this team? I'm very intentional even with my hiring, right? I like to be hands-on with that. And so I'm big on saying, okay, great, let me look around on my team and see what the makeup is. What are we missing, right? What else could we bring to the table? How else are we showcasing. And so yeah, I think at this point it is table stakes. If you don't have that, it's— you're doing yourself and your business a disservice.

That is, that is quite powerful. And you are also a LinkedIn instructor. You've taught over 60,000 people, usually talking about Security Cloud, and this is just, just amazing. What type of pattern have you seen amongst today's Can you repeat that question?

Sorry.

What patterns do you see among today's learners?

Yeah, I have seen that learners want to be hands-on, which is cool. I'm glad we're getting to that space. I do like to be hands-on as I'm becoming a leader. And so technology is moving so fast, right? The technology that was introduced yesterday will be very different once tomorrow comes. And so I I think showing— I'm going back to process. I think what I've learned, at least as I have started to build curriculum and, um, you know, started to kind of teach a little bit more broadly into the world, is people want to know, how do I do something, right? It's not just telling me to go do something, it's, hey, how is this impacting me on a day-to-day basis? And so I've made courses both for those who are just getting into the industry to say, okay, cool, here's some paths you can take, right? There's certifications, there's books, there's like all kinds of resources available for you to learn, and now it's up to you to figure out what do you like. And so here's how you can, um, use Google, right, to create your own— or I should say, uh, GCP— in order to create your own sandbox, right? So that way you can create a portfolio and get out of the box. Or for leaders, here's how you navigate the fact that you've got to now build AI governance and think of AI in every respect as you move forward. And so now that's just one more framework and one more policy and one more XYZ that you have to work into, but you already have a— if you have a solid foundation, right, it's easier to kind of close that gap. And so yeah, I love learners who are hands-on, hands-on. And it has been, yeah, such a really cool experience to be a LinkedIn Learn— excuse me, a LinkedIn author. I am a learner as well.

Yes.

I take other people's courses.

Absolutely. Now, one thing I have noticed, I usually get every year at least half a dozen to two dozen people reaching out to me across America and even around the world, people trying to get to break into cybersecurity. What advice would you have for people like that? For most of them, it's like, nobody would give me a chance because I don't have the experience, but I will never get the experience unless somebody gives me some type of entry-level job. And I've also seen it where some entry-level jobs have been classified as advanced, right? They require, for example, CSSP. You need to have at least 5 years of professional experience before you are even eligible to take the CISSP exam. And in some entry-level positions, it's like a requirement or a nice to have, which doesn't make any, any sense. Anyway, how do you help people kind of break into this wonderful industry?

Yeah, the advice I tell my mentees these days is that especially if you are already a working professional, That means you have some experience in something, and so now you're just trying to figure out how do you relate, how do I build on top of that foundation, instead of thinking that I'm starting from ground zero. And you could be starting from ground zero, maybe if you graduated from college. No, I'm not too sure. Um, and so I always— this day, especially with the narrative, I will say a narrative, right? Because, um, I'm not too sure of the results of it yet, but there is a narrative about AI taking away a lot of entry-level jobs. And so that means that people have to get creative. And so something that I know is being tutored around is that you should create— I think cybersecurity should adopt the concept of a portfolio, right? We tend to just rely on full-time experience being the only place that I can get experience, and that's not true. There are so many communities that are, are out there that you can participate in and get hands-on and get that experience, right? But it's about— it's involving you taking control of your learning journey and your career journey. Because I have also been of the— I, I've previously— I used to think, oh, the job is going to do it for me. I'm going to learn on the job. I'm gonna get my certifications from the job. They're gonna pay for it at That's no longer the case anymore. And so for me, I always tell people, you can go out there and create your own sandbox environment. You can do penetration, you can go on HackTheBox. Uh, there's a great movement happening now with compliance engineering where people are going out and they're getting hands-on in GitHub, right? And they're trying to, you know, learning how to create their own workflows to check, collect evidence and things of that nature. And so yeah, it requires you to go get hands-on. There's a lot of platforms that will allow you create free accounts where you can practice. Take 10 minutes a day. I always say, if I could do Duolingo for 5 to 10 minutes a day, you know, to become a learner in Spanish, you can do it too. And so if you just take a couple of minutes to get hands-on, you can build experience from there. That's day one for you. And so now you have the ability to work towards that 5-year marker for CISSP. And granted, it has to be full-time, but that will allow you to show employers like, hey, I'm willing to go above and beyond. Here's what I'm bringing to the table. And that way, because I do recognize that companies these days, they're not willing to teach. I was fortunate where I was able to luck out where someone was willing to give me a chance and let me learn on the job. That's not the case anymore. Like, those are far and few in between. And so in the meantime, it's how can you do that, right? How can you share— excuse me, how can you build experience for yourself until you can get into that role. And it'll take some time. Um, yeah, I always tell my mentees it takes time, but yeah, getting creative, using creativity in your cybersecurity career has been such a game changer for me. Yes.

Wow, that's, that is quite insightful. Yeah, because I think really experience trumps everything. Usually when you want to hire someone, definitely want somebody who has some type of experience that can apply to what you doing. Thank you so much for, for sharing that. I think this is going to be the last question before we move over to the second half where I focus solely on leadership. We mentioned artificial intelligence, or AI, at least 5 or 6 times already. How do you see the future of cybersecurity leadership? How will artificial intelligence, automation, agent systems, and emerging tech kind of change the role of security leaders, you think, in the next 3 to 5 years?

Yeah, I definitely think I think it is— it's always going to be technology in general, whether it's AI or whether it's the next new thing, is going to be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's easy to think about, oh, this is introducing more risk, it's introducing more headache, it's introducing XYZ, right? Because it's a learning curve. It is something new. We don't understand it. We don't know it. We don't know even what's the use cases I want to apply it to. How do I secure it? How do I fit it into this very well, you know, oiled machine that I already spent so much time, uh, building. But I also think what I'm excited about and what I'm getting more interested in is how it can help, right? Because for the longest, cybersecurity has lagged behind other, um, I'm gonna say industries or departments, right, in terms of being agile, right? Like you said, being an enabler for the business. It's how can we get ahead, how can we use it, right? And so there's a ton of use cases about how AI is helping detect things faster, right? Or taking a lot of the mundane out of what your teams are doing so you can get more to the interesting things. It's also helpful and creative as we're trying to solve challenges, right, as leaders, or we're trying to get ahead. And so, yeah, maybe I tend to take the stance of leaning more into new technology and kind of diving in to see how it can be a helpful factor. But I'm not naive enough to not say that it doesn't introduce more complexity.

It will.

Everything will. I think that's just the nature of the field that we work in. And so, yeah, it will continue to change. The agentic wave that we're on now and things of that nature is great. And then in 2 years, who knows where we'll be?

Yes.

Wow.

That is really insightful. Okay. Second half of the show, we're going to focus purely on leadership. Let me know, what do you think is the, uh, greatest lesson you've ever learned, whether it's leadership or life? Yes.

Um, I will maybe say the lesson I am learning right now, which is that I know more than I give myself credit for, and that trust in myself is what's going to lead me to success. I have 10— I've fallen into the— that's not a trap, but I tend to look for answers elsewhere, right? I am a big kind of— I read books, I love books, I watch a lot of podcasts, I, you know, asked for— I searched for mentors, and I'm always— I found myself always looking for answers from someone else. What I've never tried, or what I should say, what I tended to avoid trying, was looking for answers within myself.

Yes.

And getting to know myself and my wants and my likes and my needs and the clarity that, um, will help me be able to answer those questions that I, you know, because I can, I can come to you, Bob, and ask you all types of things, right? And I can get answers from you, but that's not going to— that's not my journey. That's your journey. And while that might be a helpful blueprint for, you know, maybe overcoming some obstacles I haven't experienced before that you might have, that might not be how I overcome it. And so that's a big lesson that I am being hammered over the head with at the moment, is to say I need to trust myself a bit more because I know what I'm talking about. I know what I'm doing. I've spent a really long time acquiring knowledge, building a solid foundation, and now I can take some risks. And that's what I'm in the process of doing right now.

That is really, really powerful because I remember when I started to develop into this field, at a certain point you feel like you keep learning, going to seminars, conferences, and reading books. Taking classes, but at a certain point you're gonna have to teach what you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And I really love the work you're doing on LinkedIn, more than 60,000 students where you may not know everything, but you know something, and what you know, you are able to transfer that and see how it actually applies in the real world. For those listening, I think it's very important to have that confidence and start becoming a thought leader. Have your own thoughts and your own ideas about how things should be, not just the way they are now, but how it could be better. Essentially, I love what you said, you know, kind of adding your own background and perspective, maybe being a woman, a woman of color, but you're seeing some certain things in certain ways that most people probably completely overlook, and it adds so much wealth and richness into the culture of the industry and the organization. Thank you so much for sharing that. What do you think is the secret of your success?

Ooh, the secret.

Why are you so successful?

I think one of my— not I think, my biggest superpower is my resiliency and curiosity. I am— I tend to call myself a serial hobbyist. I will try anything. I've tried— I've jumped out of planes, I jump off cliffs, I've tried ice skating, I've tried all kinds of things. And I've done— I've taken the same approach in my career that I do to my day-to-day. And so that, that, um, my partner calls me crazy, but the craziness has helped me be able to, one, not only have just a wide experience in my life that is pretty rich, but it has also taught me that I can try anything and that if I get knocked down or if it doesn't work out, I can get up and try something else. And that has been really helpful because I have gotten knocked down a lot, and it is— it has helped me learn that I can get up quicker and that sometimes the the knockdowns are not as hard as maybe they were first when I was younger. And so those are the two superpowers I've been leaning into more because I used to think that, like I said before, at the beginning of this, in calling myself a generalist, it was my curiosity that kind of led me down that path. I've had someone tell me that that is going to— I'm going to fail going down that, that if I don't specialize, I am not going to be successful in this career. And I'm so glad I didn't listen to that person because that has allowed me to have such a rich career. So that way, now that I'm at a point where I have the time and ability to figure out what's next, I can say, okay, great. I'm not scared to try a bunch of different things. I'm not scared to bring this to the table. And despite getting knocked down, I know I can get back up. And so, yeah, those are the two superpowers that I am taking with me in the future right now.

No, that, that is, I, I am so, so glad you didn't listen, uh, to them because eventually, even when you become a chief information security officer, you really need to be able to know the entire spectrum of security, right? This way you can lead an entire team even in things where you are not necessarily a deep expert in. That is, that is quite powerful. Resilient and curious. Uh, let me ask you this, uh, what do you think is the greatest leadership advice you have ever received?

The greatest leadership advice I have ever received, let me think. I think it would go back to understanding my why. So a year or so ago, I was in a leadership program and had a coach who really, really, really, really hammered into me about getting clarity about what I'm doing. And that has been whenever I find myself questioning, doubting, trying to figure stuff out, going back to my why has always helped me get that clarity. Because otherwise, I always say, I do not want to continue walking around or running around like a chicken without a head. And if you've ever— I don't know if you've ever seen that, but it's just, it's not pretty. And so really understanding my why has been the single most, um, helpful question. And then, uh, to couple that to be Well, what's next? Right? Because sometimes we'll get stuck in the why. And it's not a why as in like, woe is me. It's a why is it— why am I here? Why am I getting up every day? Why am I showing up every day? Why am I talking to you? Right? And it's intention. It's how do you live an intentional life? I just saw a podcast with Tracee Ellis Ross, and I adore her. And she had said, you know, a lot of her career, her success, she too is being able to, one, identify who she is, to get clarity on that, and then to have the courage to live authentically, right? And to be able to show up like that every single day, because it's really scary. It is scary to be vulnerable. It is scary to put yourself out there. It is scary to take risks. But without doing that, you will not have the big, bold life that I know I want for myself. And so I— yeah, that is getting clear on that why is helping me to be able to show up and have conversations with you, to be able to show up in, in every day to say I want to be part of this community. And so yeah, maybe I'll say that's the biggest advice, is to get clear on myself and my why and then use that to propel my intention and find my purpose on what is next.

That is powerful.

Wow.

So what, what are you learning right now?

Um, I am learning that, um, the space I am in today, I am calling the gray. It is like a messy middle, and which is a term I use for myself. And I am learning that it is okay to show up in any space. Professionally or personally as myself, and that is perfectly fine, right? And I used to show up thinking I needed to adopt what, um, maybe someone else told me, that I need to follow the path that society has told me, my parents, whoever. And what I'm learning right now is I need to figure out exactly what I want. I've spent spent quite a lot of time, um, learning about, um, how to be successful in my career, learning how to maybe show up as a great friend, as a great partner, as a great daughter, as a great— you know, all of these titles that I wear. What I didn't spend a lot of time is learning what do I like, right? What makes me excited? What do I enjoy? And that has been a really great journey of learning about myself, because what that is allowing me to do is now show up spaces differently. Because now I can show up and say, oh, that doesn't work for me. And that doesn't work for me, that's okay, I'm gonna go this way. And that has allowed me to stop maybe stumbling along in this journey, and maybe walk a bit more confidently into the opportunities and experiences that I'm pretty excited to participate in.

That is really powerful. Now, earlier you mentioned said a lot of the successes you've had, you've failed a lot as well, especially with your curious mind, which is pretty wonderful. But can you share how failure has shaped your life? Maybe one or a couple of examples where you had to go through failure and kind of what you learned from it, how it made you stronger and enabled you to live this bolder life that you're talking about?

Yeah, I have failed at a lot of things. I have been fired before. I have been— oh, I'm sorry, I got distracted. I saw the comment.

Yeah, I had to put those out there. A lot of people will love it.

I appreciate that. Yeah, so yeah, I've been fired before. I have disappointed people before. I have disappointed myself before. And so In that, what I have been able to at least do is to look back at how I showed up in that space. And every time I look back at something that didn't work for me, it was because I wasn't clear and wasn't showing up as I wanted to. I, you know, whether it was nervousness or whether it just wasn't the space for me. And so, um, yeah, I've had that experience actually pretty recently. And what it has helped me figure out is that I, yeah, wasn't moving with intention. I was moving from a place of, um, of fear. I'll be honest. Yeah, I was fearful in how I was maybe taking a next direction into a new opportunity. And that didn't work out for me. And when I look back at it now, I know exactly why it didn't work out, right? I, I saw flags that I ignored. I, I, I found when there was, uh, questions I was asking and they weren't being answered, right? I should have known. And so, um, while it's easy to beat yourself up about those failures and to say say, man, that really hurt my feelings, right? Or that really— what do I do now? I realized that that experience gave me the clarity I need to know that, like, hey, it didn't work out. Something else will. Now let's go find out something else. And sometimes it's scary. It's putting yourself back out there and it's saying, like, hey, it's dusting your shoulders off and saying, like I had gotten knocked down. But yeah, it's, um, those failures, uh, what did someone say? Like, the nos just means that a yes is coming. And so it reminds yourself that you've had a yes before, a yes can come again. You can say yes to yourself. And it's just kind of reminding yourself of that. It's easy to forget. And so that's why I said, you don't know if you see my— I have stuff everywhere reminding me about my goals, my purposes, and things that to do.

Wow, that is, that is quite powerful. Before we continue, her name is Tiffany D from Raleigh, North Carolina. Oh, you do know her? Okay, so she's late, but finding your why is so valuable. I love you, Dominique, you are an amazing leader in cyberspace. So I really love those comments. Those listening live, please let us know where you are coming from and also if you have a question for Dominique. Also something that you are grateful for. Yeah, I love your vulnerability. That's really what it takes to be a leader. You may fall 7 times, but you get back up again and again and trying to learn from all of your experiences. And she says also, it can be so easy to shrink yourself for the sake of just being in the room. It's an awesome reminder to never shrink. That is so, so powerful. Okay, we are already running out of time. I can't believe this. Let me see if I can do this quicker. I could be talking to you for hours, Dominique. You have so much wisdom. That's amazing. Okay. Who are some of your mentors, some of your thought leaders, people you follow that we should know about?

Yeah. In person, in real life, who I know, a big shout out to Octavia Howell. She is— man, that woman right there. She had mentored me at a time where I— almost a decade ago, I didn't know what I was doing in this career. I didn't know where I was going to go, and she embraced me. Me so warmly and had taken me under her wing. And I credit her a lot to building the confidence of the woman who I am today. So I— shout out to Octavia.

That's powerful.

I also want to shout out Julie Chapman, who was another— in this current season that I'm in, is another woman who— I mean, and when I tell you, like, and this is also maybe advice that I'm gonna tell to people out there, I cold reached out to these women. I didn't know I literally went into their LinkedIn DMs and said, hey, I don't know what I'm doing right now. Here's what I've tried. I, I'm, I'm stuck in this place. Can you help me figure this out? This is what I'm trying to learn. I see you're an amazing woman. And I have just— I mean, the grace that I have felt from those two women, other women, um, who is, uh, one of my mentors is Dr. Rubina Malik. I'll put her on LinkedIn as well. You know, they have all just just given me such a warm embrace, have helped lead me, have dusted my shoulders off for me sometimes when I was afraid to, have put me on the straight and narrow and said, go conquer the world. And so I always credit and shout out for it. Unofficially, Michelle Obama is my mentor in my head, and so is Tracee Ellis Ross, because both of them are two women who are just living unapologetically out loud in their truth. And it's such an inspiration, especially as a Black woman. I love also Shellye Archambault. Yes, that book. She has an amazing book that has helped with a blueprint on how to get control of your life, how to get clarity on your why, and how to show up authentically every day. Has been amazing. So I'm going to pause there. I'm going to give you all—

this is really great. Being vulnerable and reaching out to those people who are successful in your industry, 9 times out of 10, they will always respond. It's going to help because they remember what it used to be like when they were in your shoes.

Purposefully, purposefully, and how you reach out, right? Be intentional about how you reach out. Not just, oh, I'm trying to pick your brain. No, here's what I need help with. Here's what I'm trying. Here's how I'm going to show up. Here's how I'm going to take accountability for my career, for my success. And here's what I'm looking to get from you. So be purposeful. Don't just ask to pick brains. Be intentional about how you're trying to get mentors.

That is, that is really, really powerful. And then whenever they take the time, their very, very precious time to talk to you, then make sure to follow up, right? Once you've done whatever they say to do, "Oh, I did this and this is how it worked out," because they always love hearing.

I have homework from Julie right now that I need to do. So yeah, make sure you do it.

If you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, doesn't matter who they are, alive now, dead, or even mythical figures, who would you choose and why?

Mm, to have dinner, man. Um, oh, I would choose Issa Rae. I love Issa Rae. If you all are not familiar, from Insecure. She is a funny Black woman who is out there conquering the world. And I know it would give me some good kikis and laugh at a dinner table. I would choose Quinta Brunson. I'm— yeah, I'm choosing all comedians right now, I think. Who is another— who is another woman who is conquering the world on Abbott Elementary and everything, who's living unapologetically? And then my third one, hmm. Man, that's such a good question because I am definitely thinking about Michelle Obama. I clearly want to just have some very good conversation with some Black women around the table.

That is, that is definitely, um, powerful. Now, you have contributed to 97 Things Every Information Security Professional Should Know. What message did you want readers to remember from your chapter? It's this book right here.

Um, The— what I would like readers to know from this chapter and things in general, because I have talked about cloud security at the time, that was the entryway into, um, uh, cybersecurity and the specialty that was going to go in, is that you are able to pick what you want, right? I, I think I always tend to tell people, um, from an advice perspective is that you have more control than you think you do. And so for me, while cloud security was my entryway, you can have other, other domains can be your entryway into this field. I know how difficult it is. It can be compliance, it can be IT, it can be HR, it could be a variety of things. And just know that I think cybersecurity is so unique, because we need so many different perspectives to secure things. There's too much just for one cybersecurity professional to try to keep track of, right? We do not know everything. And so it is— I always encourage people, like, the background that you have, the experiences that you have is more than enough for you to get in here. Yes, you need to learn the systems, you need to learn the different domains within the field. You should have a great foundation about how things work, how things connect, how data flows, cool.

Yes.

From there, it's great. How do I bring the HR— you know, HR and cybersecurity, they go hand in hand, because eventually, for cybersecurity awareness, you need to figure out and track down the people who need to take training, right? Or when you think about engineering, I need to figure out how to tell them how they should do, you know, their, their software development lifecycle better, right? And so there's just so many ways for you to get into this field and for you to excel and to to be successful. Mine happens to be cloud security, but yours can be something else.

Wow, it's really important what you're saying because maybe 20, 25 years ago, it looks like we really focus on just, you know, left-brained people, people who did STEM, science, technology, engineering, math. That's all we look for. Even today, in most jobs, applications for cybersecurity, they kind of require you, or they prefer that you have like a science background. But the truth is We need everybody, even those who do art, those who are more of the white brand, because they really help us see kind of our blind spot, look at things a little bit differently. That really adds a lot of value. Like even lawyers, they help with privacy, with understanding exactly what those regulations are and how we can translate those into engineering requirements. I think so. It's really a field, a department, a function that really touches every other function across the entire enterprise. So there shouldn't be a reason why somebody really wants to cannot get into this field. Yeah, that's powerful. So what about the other book you were featured in, uh, in Tribe of Hackers, uh, your insights to that, uh, what does tribal knowledge mean to you in the context of cybersecurity leadership? And that's this book right here. Yeah, right.

It's, it's how do we as leaders, as participants, build community with one another And a lot of it is sharing, especially in the cybersecurity industry. How do I share the challenges that I've gone through? That's a lot about the community I'm trying to build again right now with Evolving Seasons, right? Is to say like, there are challenges, there are real challenges that are being experienced, right? And so how is it that we can take ourselves out of the silo and work together, right? Because that's what— what do we always say, like, vulnerabilities and everything, there's thousands of them. There's so many attacks happening every day. There's risks happening every day. There's breaches and things are going down every single day. And so how is we community show up? A lot of people have talked about wanting to have a village and maybe not necessarily having the village they want. And a lot of it comes with how are you showing up? And so how do you show up and participate in the community? That's what Tribe of Hackers was for, specifically for cybersecurity leadership. And so You want to be part of the community and get out there, bring your voice out there. A lot of people probably don't think, I don't have the experience, I don't have the time, I don't have— excuses are plenty. And sometimes it's just saying, how can I? I have to go do a 2-hour drive, and right after that I have to do it, right? And so I'm telling myself every day, I need to take 5 minutes to be able to accomplish these things. And so maybe that's the one that I wanted to get from that, or that's the experience that I had from creating in that book, right, is that as a community we have to come together, but more importantly, like, you have to share your voice and you have to reflect on how are you showing up to be part of that community or build the community that you want to see.

Well, uh, I'm sorry, we only have 3 minutes, so we're gonna keep you for 5 more minutes.

I got you, love.

Thank you. I really enjoyed talking to you. You have so much wisdom, and I think a lot of people, especially women of color, who are trying to get into this, uh, —wonderful field. I think they might get really inspired by you. So the books we talked about, the book you wrote, 97 Things: Collective Wisdom from the Experts. We talked about Tribe of Hackers for security leaders, and you also mentioned the book by my mentor, Shelly Arsenault, Unapologetically Ambitious. Is there any other book you would recommend to the audience, especially young Black women who really want to lead a bold life like you do?

Yeah, one book that lives rent-free in my head is a book called The Midnight Library. Oh, I can't remember. Is it Matt Haig, if I'm not mistaken? The Midnight Library. And it is a story about a young woman who is at a point where she's giving up on life, and she has an opportunity to go to the library, which is one of my favorite places, and she has a chance to experience the many lives that she forgot or thought that she couldn't experience for herself. She thought that she would be a swimmer. She thought that she would be, you know, uh, we'll just say an author. And what that book really showed me is the control that I had given up pretty early, right? Because it's pretty— we get so bogged down. Life is going to life, right? Yes. And it had showed me that the control and the type of life that I want is in my hands. And it's easy to forget that. It's easy to get into the passenger seat of life because there's some obstacles and external forces. Life is heavy. Like, I don't even want— uh, that is an understatement. Life is heavy. You will experience things that will continue to question you, test you. You experience people that will question you and test you. And that book has reminded me and continues to remind me— yes, it is. I mean, that book is phenomenal. And it continues to remind me that I can show up and I can continue to start over, that I can choose a new life if I want to, I can choose a new experience if I want to, I can ask for help, build a support system, and I, you know, the power is in my hands. And so I would recommend that.

That is powerful. Yeah, especially now, the ability to ask for help when you need it. Just get rid of the ego and people will come to your help when you ask. Yeah, well, this is really, really great. So, uh, when you wake up in the morning, if you had the magic wand, you could solve any problem at all, what one problem would you like to solve tomorrow morning?

Oh, a magic wand.

Okay, if I could solve any problem, it would be to increase the number of women in leadership positions. I'm gonna say around the world. I know I'm specific to cybersecurity, but when I say women are pow— like, I have just had such great community with women recently, and it has because the doors and confidence in life that has been breathed into me, I hope that I can be able to do that for other women. And so that's one mission that actually is something that I've done before, but maybe wasn't quite as intentional that I am very clear on now is that I want to get more women and specifically more Black women into leadership positions.

Powerful. And, uh, if this was your last day, you only have one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Wow, you're going deep there, Bob. Okay, if this was my last day, what would I want my final contribution to be? I would say that I— my, my life, I would want to wake up and know that every single decision I made that day, every action I took that day, was something I could be proud of. And so I would absolutely spend it with myself, my family, and my friends. That is the core of who I am. That's the backbone that keeps me going from day to day. And so while I absolutely want to make an impact on the world, knowing that I can make a difference in my family and friends' lives is— we can call it a day then.

Powerful. Wow. Thank you so much for sharing. Okay, we are towards the end. That's where I ask you, how can we add value back to you? For one thing, for those who are watching, I definitely want everybody to follow you on LinkedIn. Right here, linkedin.com/dominicwest, with a brilliant smile right there on LinkedIn. And then also sign up for your classes. So everybody needs to get the LinkedIn Premium, and you have so many courses out there, especially for those who want to get into cybersecurity. So we already mentioned two books, one that you wrote, 97 Things: Collective Wisdom from the Experts, and also the one where you were featured, Tribe of Hackers.

What else can people watching right now, how can they add value back to your Yeah, so I am in the process of, like I said, building out Evolving Seasons to be, uh, just a multifaceted community space for those who are trying to get unstuck in life, like how I am. And so if you can engage on those, I'm on, uh, TikTok and LinkedIn and, and Instagram and things of that nature. I will be sharing a lot of content primarily on LinkedIn, and I have a website coming. And so, yeah, if you could engage and participate there, that will be tremendous to me because my goal is to figure out how to give back, right? I am a participant in the community, but I'm also attempting to bring value. And so it'd be helpful to understand how I can best serve those because I have a servant mindset, a servant leadership mindset. And so that's helpful in the direction, and that, that would be great to me. And just say hey, say hi.

So, Papo, so what I think is probably one of the most important questions in this entire podcast is if you could go back and give a piece of advice, right, to your 17-year-old self standing at the edge of this incredible career you've already had in cybersecurity leadership, what would you say to 17-year-old Dominique?

I would definitely tell little Damo to stop spending so much time trying to to copy or find answers in other people and other things and to trust myself more. I, I, yeah, I wish I spent more time getting to know myself, and I'm excited that I'm doing it now. It's better late than never. But I would definitely tell Lil' Dime, hey, you know you that girl. Like, go, the answers you're looking for is within yourself. Go sit down somewhere.

That is powerful, powerful. All right, and, um, and by the way, one of the questions where I said it's one of the most important questions, because I came to this country when I was 17 years old, I had big, big dreams, but I had no idea how to go from point A to point B. And I wish I had the wisdom I have now back then, but oh, there we are. Yeah, so, uh, we are gonna come to an end, but before I do, is there any question I should have asked you that I haven't asked yet?

Not that I think of. This has been an amazing conversation. Fantastic.

Okay, I'm glad to hear that. Okay, this is going to be really, really quick. Don't take too long to think. Okay, lightning round, rapid fire. One word that defines great leadership, one word.

Vulnerability.

Okay, morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded. Meditation. Okay, a book or a quote that changed your life. Midnight Library. Okay, what is maybe a song, a book, or a movie that might be a theme of your life or an anthem?

Ooh, Beyoncé, Don't Fail Me Now. It comes from the— it's the number— it's her first song on Renaissance.

Okay, who inspires you the most today? Say that again. Who inspires you the most myself. Well, I've never got that answer before. That's pretty, pretty cool. Okay, finish the sentence. Leadership is—

oh, I had so many words that just went through my head. Leadership is— oh, the phrase— exciting.

Oh, okay, I never heard that before. Okay, so what do you want to be when you were a kid?

Oh, I wanted to be a— I thought it was going to be the next Kristi Yamaguchi. I thought it was going to be an ice skater. Wow, okay.

Cybersecurity is very far from that. Very different. But although you've had a lot of adventurous experiences, so maybe that counts. What's the 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Um, I was gonna say wild. I don't know if I should— I'll be fine. Okay, two more. Um, curious, and, um, I was pretty bold as a kid, I'll say that. Yeah.

All right, what about as an adult?

Um, oh, what does describe me as an adult. I am resilient, I'm powerful, and I'm pretty fun.

I'm not gonna lie. Fantastic. Okay, the very, very last question then is, uh, what is one word that will present our shared experience in this podcast today?

One word to describe my experience with this podcast has been quite insightful. I will definitely say that, like, you asked me a lot of questions that has me reflecting, and that, yeah, I enjoyed that. This has been super fun.

All right, thank you, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate that. Thank you for being one of our master teachers today, and I am always, always grateful to have great people like you. And hopefully put the spotlight on you, all of the great things you are doing, and I'll be watching you do even more and more things. And not only you going up and up, but but carrying people with you, adding that extra chair on that big, big table and trying to bring in the next person. That's really wonderful work you do.

So thank you. Thank you, Bob. This has been great. And thank you everyone for watching.

Thanks. All right, everybody, that was Dominique West. And like I've said, she's quite impressive. Again, follow her on LinkedIn, sign up for one of her many courses, already 60,000 students have done so, and purchase your book. Book, right? 97 Things: Collective Wisdom from the Experts, and also Tribe of Hackers: Security Leaders. Wow. And definitely get engaged with her on LinkedIn. I think the work she's doing trying to diversify technology and cybersecurity is extremely critical. Okay, one more quick thing. I will be back on Thursday. I am going to have Captain Shannon Huffman Paulson, US Air Force, one of the first women Apache pilot, leadership, grit, and purpose. She's really excelled in a world really made for men, really for white men, and she's going to be teaching us again about leadership, grit, and purpose. I can't wait to have the conversation with her, and I have a couple more guests coming down the line. I will tell you about that tomorrow. So I will be back here tomorrow, and thanks again for being on the Leadership and Success Podcast.

Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.