S4:E116AI RECAP 🎙️with John Keefe

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Especially when your current role is quite comfortable and prestigious, but you're not really learning much anymore.

Yeah, I, I think this is a great question, and there's two ways of answering this. One is, is there a big macro change in the environment? And for me, there have been a couple changes in my professional environment. One was the end of the Cold War, and that, you know, the Department of Defense and all the subordinate entities, including the Navy, sort of drifted along like the— we're not— like, we've been— we built our entire organization and ethos around the idea that the Soviet Union was the thing that had to be contained. And that when that went away, the question was, what do we do? Uh, we didn't have to wait that long because 9/11 came, and that was another big wind shift. Terrorist groups, okay, that was not what we were thinking about at the time. Now that, that became a dominant feature in national security, uh, for, you know, at least 15 years. Uh, and then in the midst of that, uh, the rise of cyber operations, you know, the, the internet didn't even exist at the end of the Cold War. Well, it did if you were at DARPA, but, uh, but for most of us it didn't exist. And then, I mean, I remember learning, you know, browsers in the mid-'90s, uh, internet browsers and, you know, and then all of a sudden, as you know, government put stuff online, all of a sudden this whole, you know, intelligence realm that can be grown up around this. And, uh, and so cyber operations became a thing, uh, software got more sophisticated, it came laden with vulnerabilities, and you can see how that one went. And then, and lastly, the, you know, for me personally, I think that I did not— I was not paying attention to it, but the growth of the space industry through some really clever thinking at NASA and some really clever companies, to include SpaceX, who started thinking about, hey, there's ways of reducing costs in rocket launch And if we do that, then it opens up a whole new economy and a different set of space exploration options that we hadn't previously. Say the first question again.

Where will AI disrupt cyber, space, and intelligence?

So I think, I actually think AI has the greatest chance of being a positive force in intelligence disruption. By that I mean, But, you know, just to see the power of large language models, the ability to do foreign language translation, whether it's intelligence or open source material, just, you know, wow. They don't need an army of linguists in the same way I used to if I can have large language models that'll actually do accurate translations. And so that, in that sense, like that's potentially revolutionary. And one can imagine that there's, you know, ways of optimizing how to use your collection resources, whether you're the National Reconnaissance Office or National Security Agency. There are ways of optimizing that AI models can solve in a way that humans might not, might not be able to. Just the idea of change detection. The private sector space industry is already doing this through its own collection, which they sell on the commercial market, but they can figure out like who's digging holes where. If you want to look along the US border and figure out where tunnels are, you know, there's a private sector company that's actually— can collect that data and spot it for you, and they do it all automatically if you needed to. In terms of cybersecurity, I think, again, I think the AI to identify software vulnerabilities or AI to manage operations, both of those things I think are possible. The question is, does it run faster in offense or defense?

Yes.

Wow.

And then for space experts—

but I think we need to talk a little bit about your sailboat theory of career progression. I'm not going to let you off the show if we don't talk about it just a little bit. Can you tell us kind of its origin, where it came from? Because it has resonated with thousands of people. And can you also share how leaders can or should recognize when to tack the boat?

Yes. So it comes from— I graduated from Stanford University. I spent a couple of years on the sailing team there. I was a terrible sailor. As it turns out, most of the folks that were really good on the team had, you know, grown up on the West Coast and they had been sailing all their lives. I was self-taught in a lake near, in New Hampshire. But one of the things that to be a good sailor on the sailing team, you had to be able to, you had to be able to know where the wind is and then spot the wind shifts. And then the wind shifts would tell you, was it time to tack the boat or do you stay on the same course? And so, and there could be an advantage if you spotted the wind shift early, there was an advantage to to your boat to make an attack early. And so that always, um, so that was, that's where the theory comes from. It also comes from this idea that, you know, when, as I was moving up through my career, I always had this idea like climb the ladder, that's like the model of career progression. And I was like, wait a minute, there's an alternate theory out there, which is what I call the sailboat theory of career navigation. And, and, um, and it's knowing when to tack the boat to go, you know, if If one course is taking you to interesting work, then you stay on that course. And if that's not the interesting work anymore, or there's a change in the environment, then it's time to tack the boat and go sail towards where the new interesting work is.

Wow.

Yeah, because I was gonna ask Nesk, uh, what internal signal tells you it's time for the next career All right, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success podcast. This is your host Bizzy, and today we are going to have a 10-minute AI recap from the hour-long conversation I had with the one and only John Kith, ex-NASA, NSA, and National Security Council at the White House, a strategist. He worked in space, cyber, and national power. So he's really the strategist in the arena. What a joy and privilege it was to speak with him. So This is season 4, episode 116, episode one sixteen, if you want to watch the full conversation. And today we're just going to have a 2-5 minute recap, all done by artificial intelligence. So what I will do next, I'm going to play a 5-minute clip as a summary, all done by AI, and then I'm going to play another 5-minute clip and then we will end the show. So let's go to the first AI Wake up!

You know, in every generation, there are a few leaders whose careers just offer a blueprint for the rest of us. And John Keefe, he is absolutely one of them. We're talking about a career spanning nearly 40 years that has literally shaped America's strategy in cyber, in space, and national intelligence. So, let's dive in and pull out the core lessons from a true master of the game. This one quote, I mean, this is everything. This is the key that unlocks John Keefe's entire philosophy. It's not just a job description; it's a fundamental mindset. It's about this constant vigilance, this need to look past today's crisis to see what's coming tomorrow. This idea of being a "Rampart Watcher"— that's the thread that ties his entire life and career together. So, here's our game plan. We're gonna start with that "Rampart Watcher" mindset, 'cause you have to understand that to understand him. Then, we'll get into his 3 simple but powerful rules for any leader. After that, We'll talk about his take on strategy, and it's not what you think. Then, a really cool metaphor for your own career, and we'll wrap up with the single biggest lesson from a lifetime of service. Okay, first up, the Rampart Watcher. Look, to really get inside Keefe's strategic thinking, we have to start at the beginning. We have to understand the personal stuff that forged his unique way of looking at threats, at responsibility, and at what it means to serve. This right here, this is the moment that defined everything. His very first memory is of an ambulance in his driveway during a family tragedy, and he says that that moment, right there, is what turned him into a Rampart Watcher. It created this deep, profound sense of responsibility, to see danger coming and to protect people long before it ever arrives. But his mindset wasn't just about being on guard. It was also driven by this incredible curiosity. He took that curiosity to Stanford, studied aerospace engineering, and that engineering discipline, he brought it to everything he did. Instead of just reacting to things, he would always, always start by asking, "Okay, wait. What is the actual problem we're trying to solve here?" That focus on defining the problem first, man, that is such a critical lesson for any leader. So, let's see how this mindset actually translates into a practical framework for leadership. Keefe gives a ton of credit to Admiral Joe Prouhair, who gave him this really simple but incredibly powerful set of rules that, honestly, apply to any leader, anywhere. And here they are! It's so simple you might almost miss how profound it is. Number 1: Know your stuff. You have to be competent. Number 2: Take care of your people. Your team is everything. And number 3: Always do the right thing. Your character, your integrity, that's your foundation. And this isn't just for the military, right? This is for tech, for business, you name it. And this right here just nails that third rule. Keefe noticed that the absolute best leaders, guys like General Paul Nakasone, they never lost their cool. In a crisis, being calm is a force multiplier. Yelling? That's not leadership. It doesn't build trust. Competence plus character. That's what builds trust. Your team needs to see stability from you. Not chaos. Alright, let's switch gears and talk about strategy. Because I think most of us have an idea of what that word means, but Keefe's experience, especially his time at the NSA, is about to completely flip that idea on its head. We've all seen 'em, right? These huge, glossy binders full of charts and 5-year plans. And where do they end up? On a shelf, collecting dust. This is what most people think strategy is. It's just some theoretical document. But, for Keith, that's not strategy at all. Not even close. And this is the crucial part: a strategy is only real if it's tied to a budget, if it grants authority, and if it leads to actual, measurable change. Otherwise, he says, it's just a wish. A piece of paper. I mean, just think about his job as the senior director for cyber policy at the White House. He called it "herding cats." And can you imagine? Trying to get the Department of Defense, Homeland Security, the State Department, the entire intelligence community, to all move in the same direction? That wasn't about writing a pretty document; it was about building consensus and driving real-world action. That's strategy. Okay, now for one of the most powerful metaphors in this whole breakdown. Keefe gives us a totally new way to think about our careers, one that just throws out that old, rigid model we were all taught. So, instead of a career ladder, he says to think of your career as a sailboat. The ladder's rigid, right? It's linear; you just climb straight up. But a sailboat, well, it has to be adaptable. You can't sail directly into the wind; you have to tack. You change direction to use the wind to your advantage. It's all about reading the environment, seeing the shifting needs of the world, and then adjusting your course. So, this way of thinking forces you to ask a really powerful question: when the wind shifts, you know, like the end of the Cold War or the explosion of cyber threats, is it time to tack the boat? It reframes that feeling of discomfort, It's not a setback; it's actually a signal that it might be time for a strategic pivot, a move toward new growth and new challenges. Alright, in our final section, we are getting to the absolute core of it all. This isn't really about policy or frameworks anymore; this is about the human part of leadership. It's about risking failure, and about finding what truly matters at the end of the day. So get this: as a young man, Keith had applied to be an astronaut but never actually sent in the application. Decades go by, he's had this amazing career already, and then he gets a second chance. At 50 years old, he decides, "You know what? I'm going for it." He didn't make it, but listen to his perspective. He calls the rejection letter a prized possession. Why? I mean, why would a rejection letter be a prize? Because for him, the victory wasn't about being chosen. The victory was having the guts to even try. It all comes back to this famous quote that shaped his entire life: "The credit doesn't go to the critic, the person on the sidelines. It belongs to the person who actually gets in the arena, whose face is covered in dust and sweat, who dares to do the thing and isn't afraid to fail. That rejection letter was his proof that he was in the arena. So, after all of it—decades of service, advising presidents, advising generals, shaping the strategy of a nation—what's the one thing that stands out? If you had to boil down great leadership to a single word, what would it be? Caring. That's it. It's the one word that holds everything else together. Caring about the mission, caring about your people, caring about the nation, and caring about the truth. It's the engine that drives that Rampart Watcher, and it's the fuel for a true leader's integrity. And so, that leaves us with one final question to think about. We all have our own arenas, right? Our jobs, our families, our communities. The ultimate lesson from John Keefe's incredible journey is to just ask ourselves, what do we truly care enough about to step into that arena day after day?

Welcome to our session. Today, we're diving into a fascinating realm of leadership, strategy, and national service, inspired by a distinguished strategist's journey.

I'm all in. So much to unpack here about vigilance, duty, and how strategic vision shapes not only careers but nations, right?

Right, absolutely. The narrative we're exploring centers on a leader whose career spans from Cold War analysis to high-level roles at the NSA, NASA, the White House, and beyond. You see how he embodies the idea of a multi-domain strategist, right?

Multi-domain. It's not just about one area, but how cyberspace, intelligence, and policy converge in leadership. That's really something. Exactly.

And, um, one of the striking aspects is how his early experiences, even personal tragedy, created this inherent vigilance. Like his earliest memory of an ambulance transforming him into what he calls a rampart watcher. Yep. It's a vivid metaphor for being constantly alert to emerging threats.

It's intriguing to think that early life events can so deeply shape your outlook. Making you more sensitive to the risks and responsibilities of leadership.

For sure. And then there's his engineering mindset. He approaches every problem like, "What's the problem statement?" Um, it's like his tactic for everything. Don't just react, analyze the system. It's such a refreshing logic for leaders.

True, but don't you think that a rigid engineering approach might sometimes miss the soft skills that are equally vital in crisis situations.

That's a fair point, though he balances it with a deep care for people. His leadership philosophy, echoing Admiral Joe Pruha's words, is all about, you know, knowing your stuff, taking care of your people, and doing the right thing. It's a harmony between technical acuity and genuine concern.

And it's refreshing how he emphasizes calm under pressure, reminding us that, well, yelling isn't leadership, but calm Composure is absolutely—

he even highlighted how leaders like General Nakasone maintain their cool in crises. Yeah, calm under fire. Think of it like steering a ship through a storm without losing direction.

Right. Speaking of steering, the sailboat theory he shared is brilliant, isn't it? Instead of climbing a ladder, it's like you read the wind, and if the current course isn't working, you tack to a better one.

Exactly. It's like recognizing when discomfort is a sign of growth and pivoting strategically. Yeah. That idea really shifts how we view career progression.

And it's not just limited to career. It applies to leadership in general, constantly assessing the environment and pivoting before things go sideways.

Right. And this intertwines with his insight that 90% of strategy is actually the implementation. It's so clear, a strategy is only as good as how it gets executed.

Mm, it almost challenges the traditional boardroom's approach where plans get stuck in documents. It's much more dynamic and actionable.

Yes, and in his world, strategy wasn't hidden in glossy binders but communicated effectively, sometimes even as a 2-page email with real, massive implications. Yep. That speaks volumes about decisiveness and clarity.

I find it particularly intriguing how he bridges the gap between policy and real-world outcomes, like having a hands-on notebook of lessons from mentors and key leaders.

For sure. He credits mentors like Admiral Joe Prueher and General Nakasone for, um, instilling that blend of competence and character. And speaking of character, his single-word summary for great leadership is— Uh-huh. Caring. That's powerful in its simplicity.

Exactly. Caring for the mission, the people, and the future. It's a reminder that leadership isn't just about achievements, but also about the impact you've made on individuals and teams.

Right. And then there's his experience on Capitol Hill, where he discussed facing incidents of failure with humility. You know, he even cherishes his NASA rejection letter. That's like, um, embracing failure as a pivotal part of being in the arena. It's a testament to resilience. It really flips the idea of failure on its head.

Not something to shy away from, but a symbol of daring to engage.

Absolutely. And his advice to his younger self is so poignant. To focus more on being a good teammate rather than just climbing the ladder. That underscores the importance of collaboration over competition.

Definitely. And it gives, um, a roadmap for upcoming leaders in all fields, from cybersecurity to aerospace. How critical do you think this blend of technical expertise and human empathy is in today's, say, volatile environment? Oh, it's essential.

In complex fields like national security, where policies, tech, and human factors all collide, having both is like, um, having a compass and a map. Without empathy, the best strategy might fall flat.

And his integration of diverse areas like cyber, space policy, and diplomacy truly shows how interconnected our world has become.

Exactly. He's a brilliant example of how interdisciplinary thinking saves the day, balancing technical rigor with state-of-the-art diplomacy and even innovation in commercial space ventures.

That ties in well with the coaching prompts mentioned, like know the condition of your flock. It's almost biblical in guidance, reminding leaders to be both prepared and attentive.

Right. Like Proverbs reminds us, it's about understanding and steady, clear-headed leadership. The integration of biblical wisdom with modern leadership principles is quite enriching. Yeah.

And it's interesting too how he stresses that strategy and execution go hand in hand. You could have the best plan in the world, but if you don't implement it, it's just wishful thinking. Exactly.

His point that a strategy not tied to budget, authority, and execution is simply a wish is a wake-up call for any leader. It's very much about accountability and turning vision into action.

I, um, do wonder if there might be times when acting swiftly could overshadow the need for consensus. What do you think about that balance?

That's a great question. He's mindful of that. Emphasizing, "Let everyone have their say, pocket the consensus, and then focus on what needs to go higher." It's all about balancing inclusion with decisive action.

Hmm, so it's like a dynamic dance between collective input and solitary leadership decisions. Precisely.

And wrapping it all up, his journey inspires leaders to remain vigilant, continuously curious, and above all, caring. His life shows that leadership is not merely a title, but an ongoing commitment to impact, resilience, and the courage to face uncertainties head-on.

Yeah, it's a profound reminder for every leader in our ever-evolving global landscape. This blend of technical brilliance, visionary strategy, and sincere human value, seriously, it sets the bar incredibly high.

Absolutely. And as we think of our own roles, his insights challenge us to not only design strategies but to live them through everyday actions and interactions. Right, Usha. That's where the real impact happens.

What a powerful conversation to have, one that resonates across sectors and ages, reminding us that leadership is, at its core, a journey of service, empathy, and relentless pursuit of excellence.

Definitely. So let his journey be a guiding light for all of us striving to lead with integrity and purpose as we face the challenges of tomorrow. Yep. That's the message we should all take to heart.

That is so powerful. It reminds me of what one of my dear mentors taught me when I first became an officer. He said something like 90% of success in the Navy is just showing up. Just show up and do what you're supposed to do, and everything is going to work out some somewhere, and I think he was so right about that. So you've served in the White House as a special assistant to President Joe Biden and senior director for cyber policy. It's really one of the most demanding leadership positions in government. So what prepared you for such a role?

My glib answer is to say that nothing really prepares you for the role, but no, everybody comes with a background. In my case, having done strategy at multiple levels levels of NSA. So I, I was, you know, I was in the, I was a senior director for cyber policy. That was the cyber directorate. There were about, uh, about 12 or 15 people in that directorate depending on what moment in time we were talking about. And, uh, and so you had to have a cyber background. Um, yes. But the, what really sort of qualified me for that job was, was two things. One, having done strategy in cyber at multiple levels, uh, of the agency and as well as working with US Cyber Command. Uh, and then secondly, I had a working relationship with, uh, Anne Neuberger, who was the Deputy National Security Advisor for Cyber and Emerging Tech. And she was also an NSA senior executive, and she and I had worked, uh, closely together for, for Looks like I was on mute.

So this was a wonderful 10-minute AI recap, the wonderful conversation I had with John Käfer a few weeks ago. So I would like to encourage everyone to please follow him on LinkedIn. So that's going to be on www.linkedin.com/in/JohnKaefer. John-Kaefe-570A63285. So let me share my screen here for just a second, and we are going to go ahead and check out his LinkedIn page for just a second. Here we go. All right, so you should see him on LinkedIn here. Let me read that. All right, so follow him on LinkedIn. He really has a lot of knowledge and tips on his LinkedIn. And then I also would like to ask you to read the friend in the Spotlight that an article I wrote about him is his past, his background, but also the podcast recap article, The Strategist in the Arena. Yeah, here we We go the leadership devotion I wrote where I put all of the highlights from the conversation we had on the podcast and a lot of links and some of his recommendations and people he believes we should follow like General Paul Nakasone, really is a living legend. I'm trying to get him on the podcast as well, but yeah, take the time to do that. So I am reminded again of our moment of gratitude. So as you guys know, we've been following me for a while, every year I do a 21 Grateful Challenge. It usually starts on Thanksgiving. I've done this for 4 years now. So today is day 19 of 21. So we only have a couple more days left before the Grateful Challenge is over. So this is where I just take a minute And I really want to be grateful for one thing every single day for the next 21 days and do that on social media. So on LinkedIn, and then each day I want to randomly select and challenge a member of my network to do the same thing. So they too will be grateful every single day for one thing on LinkedIn and then challenge a member of their network to do the same. So, and by the way, I just got a ping from Jukridon KKB from Twitch. We do broadcast live on Twitch as well. Most of those people are gamers, they don't really care much about leadership. But anyway, Jukridon KKB said hi, so hello to you. And part of the reason why I really love this interaction, getting feedback when the audience let me know where they are watching from, what they are grateful for, if they have a question. It's because when I first started this podcast 4 years ago, the very first episode, it was just me, myself, and I. So I was the only person in the audience, and it is always wonderful to get interaction. So anyway, so let's go to our moment of gratitude. Like I said, today is day 19 of 21, so let's just take a moment and be grateful. So if you would maybe close your eyes, take a deep breath, and think about one thing that you are grateful for in this moment right now. So we are in the midst of the holidays now. Christmas is going to be next week. I can't believe it. So I think I'm really grateful for holidays, the time I spend with my wife, my two kids, my daughters, and just relax at home. And it is so precious, especially when you have been deployed overseas and away from your family for months at a time, it is really a blessing to be home with your family. I really love the holidays. I think some of my favorite is Thanksgiving, which I believe only two countries in the world, right, have a Thanksgiving holiday, the USA and Canada. And I love Christmas for sure, especially when my daughters were much younger. They are all grown up now, young adult. It's really amazing how time passes. But I also love Martin Luther King holiday and Juneteenth and also Veterans Day and Memorial Day. I think during the holidays, I spend a lot of time just thinking about life, about what's important, about kind of, you know, what my place is in society and how I can contribute and how I can add value. So I am very, very grateful. For yet one more holiday, one more Christmas and one more Happy New Year, January 1st, 2026. Time is really passing by. Okay, so it's the time of the show where I am going to go ahead and challenge a member of my network. So let me go to my wheel of names. This is where I have gone ahead and put the names of the people I am connected with on LinkedIn. So I am going to randomly click on the wheel and see Who will I challenge today for the 21 Challenge? Okay, looks like the winner is George Gertschow. He is the chief security officer the officer, CEO at Bedrock Data, and we first connect your LinkedIn profile. Go to your LinkedIn page, find out a little bit more about George. According to LinkedIn, um, get your George ID challenge. And really, the idea is for you, uh, to pull every single Love technology, don't I? Okay, here we go. So George should be showing up here in just a second. Here we go. All right, so George, it's like you are from Frisco. Colorado. And according to LinkedIn, you have almost 11,000 followers. So again, the idea, George, is for you to accept the challenge starting today, be grateful every day on LinkedIn. It takes less than a minute and be grateful for one thing every single day for the next 21 days. And then during that time, challenge one of your 11,000 followers to do the same thing for the next 21 days. All right, this is it for today. That's the AI recap. I'm not seeing any question on LinkedIn or on YouTube. I'm gonna play one more short highlight from the conversation I had with John Kiff, and that's gonna do it for today. Thank you so much for watching the Leadership and Success Podcast. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.