S4:E133🎙️LIVE with Professor Casey Lucius, PhD, US Navy (Vet)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation I'm proud to say is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach Beasy.

Casey Miller grew up in Brewster in the Elm Street Apartments and graduated from Fairless High School in 1994. While at Fairless, she was a cheerleader, ran track, was student council president, and a member of the National Honor Society. Casey was recognized as Akron Beacon Journal Student of the Week. She was selected as Homecoming Queen and the Brewster Dairy Chip and Cheese Festival Queen. After high school, Kasey attended Ashland University and studied political science. She was an Ashbrook Scholar and graduated in 3 years. Kasey served as Student Senate President and a resident assistant in the dorm. While at Ashland University, a professor gave her the best advice which she has followed throughout her life: "If you want to be extraordinary, be willing to do what no one else wants to do." "to do." This became Casey's motto as she took on difficult assignments in the military. After college, Casey joined the Navy and became a Naval Intelligence Officer for 7 years. She was promoted to Lieutenant and served on an aircraft carrier deployed to the Middle East. While in the Navy, Casey got a master's degree from the Naval Postgraduate School, and she used the GI Bill to get a PhD in political science from the University of Hawaii. While in the Navy, Casey was awarded several medals in including the Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, Navy Achievement Medal, and the Global War on Terrorism Medal. After 7 years in the Navy, Casey resigned and married Bob Lucius, a Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel. They moved to Vietnam where Casey worked for the U.S. Ambassador at the U.S. Embassy in Hanoi. While in Hanoi, the U.S. Embassy hosted several VIPs including President Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. In 2008, Casey and Bob returned to the United States and worked for Pacific World Company California for 9 years. There, Casey taught National Security Decision Making for the U.S. Naval War College in Monterey. She and Bob had a son, Bobby, and Casey ran for the local city council where she was elected and served for 4 years. In 2016, Casey also ran for the U.S. Congress. She lost the election but learned a great deal throughout the process. Casey believes that instead of complaining about your school, your city, or even your country, you should step up and offer solutions. Be willing to jump in and do the work to make things better. Casey wrote a book called Scrappy Campaigning about the lessons learned on the campaign trail and the courage it takes to promote your own values in the face of national criticism. In 2017, Casey, Bob, and Bobby moved to Naples, Florida to be closer to family. Casey began working with local governments in Florida and ultimately landed with the city of Marco Island where she works as the assistant city manager. Casey loves living close to the beach and being able to see her family. She continues to support veterans initiatives and participated in an honor flight with World War II, Korean War, and Vietnam veterans. While Casey loves living in Florida, her heart is always in Brewster, Ohio. Her best friend from 8th grade, Amy Loretta, worked at Frelis High School for many years, and Amy's mom, Karen Keen, nominated Casey for the Hall of Honor Award for Public Service. Casey is grateful for her mom, Betsy, and her sister, Shannon, for their support and encouragement. Casey said, "My mom taught me to be brave." She always believed in me, and when someone believes in you, it gives you courage to be brave and jump into any situation and thrive. Casey would like to thank all the fearless staff and teachers who gave her the foundation she needed to be successful. Your tireless efforts are worthy and appreciated. Congratulations to Casey Lucius.

All right, everybody, welcome to a very, very special, uh, edition of the Leadership and Success Podcast. We have a very special guest right now, but before we begin, let's take less a minute, as is our custom, to just take a moment to be grateful. That is really important to us. As most of you know, about 21 service members commit suicide every single day. So every time we are on this podcast, we just want to take a minute to be grateful. So if you would just close your eyes, if you can take a deep breath, put yourself in your happy place and think about one thing you are grateful for. And today I am really grateful for the giants who have gone before me, the people who have mentored me and taught me and really helped prepare me for all of the leadership opportunity I've had throughout my life. I've really lived my American dream. I started in the Navy as a seaman recruit, that's E-1, the lowest rank in the military, 21 years ago. And after boot camp, I set up my mind, right? I would either become a chief, E-7 or above, senior enlisted or a senior officer commander. And my dream came true on April 1st, 2021. So 17 years later, I was a commander in the most powerful Navy in the world. And it's also, you know, I believe, thanks to the person we're going to be talking to today, because it is really very special to me to have the professor here on the podcast. Because back, I think it was in 2013, I took one of her class for JPME Phase 1. It was called Theatre Security Decision Making at the Naval War College at the Naval Postgraduate School. And more than a decade later, her lesson on decision-making, strategy, and servant leadership are more relevant today than ever. So let me see if I can properly introduce the professor. So Professor Casey Luceyus She's a former US Naval Intelligence officer, a US diplomat, Naval War College professor, elected city council member, and interim city manager. Her career spans national security, diplomacy, academia, and local government, where leadership decisions have real immediate consequences. She's also the author of Vietnam's Political Process and Scrappy Campaigning, blending academic rigor with lived leadership experiences. So without any ado, let's welcome Professor Casey Lucius to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

Good morning.

All right, Professor Kesi Rushes, how are you doing today, ma'am?

I'm great, thank you. This is great. Thank you for the introduction.

Awesome. I guess just to, to get started really quick, is there anything you are grateful for today?

Oh my gosh, I was thinking about that, um, as you had us close our eyes for a moment, and I was thinking about my husband. I'm very grateful. We just celebrated our 21st anniversary and I'm grateful for his patience and support in my life.

That is so amazing. And, uh, is there something about you, Dr. Lusches, that most people may not know?

Oh gosh, well, it's funny, everything you were able to dig up on the internet, I think my life has been kind of an open book for the last 20 years or so. But maybe something they do not know is I have become a bit of a homebody. Body the last couple of years. I have enjoyed gardening and cooking, uh, which are things that I would have never thought of myself doing, um, you know, 10 years ago or even 5 years ago. But I guess as I'm getting older, I'm looking for calming hobbies and calming activities, and I find them very therapeutic and enjoyable.

Wow, it's, it's pretty Amazing how sometimes, you know, we go through life and we are in different seasons and more things become important. Like, I know one, I had a much harder time than I thought I would when my first daughter went to college during the pandemic. Actually, I was kind of happy for the first year she stayed home, so she pretty much did her entire freshman year at home. But then when she actually went on campus as a sophomore, Man, I missed her so much. It was incredible. I didn't think I could miss somebody that much. But anyway, so I think we have another daughter. She's in 12th grade now, so it's going to be a lot easier, I think.

But anyway, or double or double.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But we'll see. So you have served as a naval intelligence officer. Actually, I didn't know that when I took your class like 12 years ago. You've also served as a diplomat, professor, of course, and I knew that, and now elected official and city executive. So when you kind of look back, what early experience most shaped how you lead today?

Well, you mentioned this in the introduction, but I want to share right off the bat some of the best advice I was ever given, which really shaped my career and informed pretty much everything I've done. I went to college in Ohio and I had a professor named Peter Schramm. And I went to him my senior year and he asked me, you know, what are you going to do with your life? And I said, I'm going to go work at the Pentagon and I'm going to make policy. And he laughed at me and said, you're not going to the Pentagon. You know, you're 21 years old. 21-year-olds don't make policy at the Pentagon. And he said, 'If you really want to be extraordinary, be willing to do what no one else wants to do.' And, um, you know, from college I ended up going to Officer Candidate School, joined the Navy. And after intelligence training, um, you know, we— I had— I was in a class and our class members had to select which duty stations to go to. And, uh, there were some really great duty stations that we had to choose from. One was the Pentagon, which of of course I wanted to go. There was Hawaii, Rota, Spain, lots of great duty stations. And there was one ship and no one wanted to go to the ship. So his advice rang in my mind, if you want to be extraordinary, be willing to do what no one else wants to do. So I went to the ship and essentially that started off my career, I think, with a very good value set, but also then led to even greater opportunities for me. So that, I think that advice shaped my entire adult life.

Well, that is really amazing. Very, very similar to the advice I got from the man I call my sea daddy when I became— when I was selected for my commission. He was a captain and he pretty much gave me a plan for what to do to be successful as an information professional officer. I followed that plan until I was a lieutenant commander and it worked. I mean, everything it told me to do, I did. And here I was a lieutenant commander and then I'm like, hey, what do I do to become a commander? He had retired by then. I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm completely lost now. And, but that is so wonderful to have people like the professor, right, who gives you a piece of advice that you really hang on to it and then it, pretty much changes everything. Dr. Peter Schramm, that is really awesome. So I guess maybe a follow-up question I have is, was there maybe a defining moment in uniform or in academia or local government when you realized that leadership was more about service than authority?

Yeah, so I'll tell you a story from OCS, from Officer Candidate School. Um, you know, no one, no one in my family had ever served in the military. So it was brand new to me. I really had no idea what I was doing or no idea what I was getting into, but I wanted to serve. I had this eagerness to serve in the military and to be involved in, in government in some capacity. And, uh, while I was in Pensacola at OCS, um, there were, there were only 4 females in the class. And so the 4 of us were in one room. And we were, you know, standing out in the hallway lined up, and then the gunny yelled at us to go in and, you know, and make our racks. And so we ran into our rooms and I started making my rack, and he grabbed me by the shoulders and kind of tossed me aside and just screamed at me not to make my rack. And I'm thinking to myself, but you just told us to come in here and make our rack. And he said, you help your roommates first. You help them first, and then you make your own. And, uh, now first of all, I was scared to death thinking, oh my God, this guy's going to kill me. But second, I was like, I got it, right? Help others first. So we all have long lists, long lists of things to do. Uh, we all have projects, we all have families, we all have all of these commitments and obligations. But I think if you're really committed to service and you're really committed to leadership, the question that should be top of mind is, what can I do to help someone else first?

Wow, that is really, really, really powerful. Really, leadership is all about people, isn't it? Wow.

Absolutely.

Another thing you've said is extraordinary leaders do the work others avoid. What was the job or moment you didn't want but that changed you the most?

Yes. Well, I mentioned, you know, I went to the ship. I got deployed on the USS Stennis, and that was a job no one else wanted to take. It turned out to be great for me. I had the best boss who is still one of my best friends to this day. But following that assignment, because I was willing to, to deploy deploy, I was able to, to, uh, choose my next duty station. And I chose Monterey Naval Postgraduate School where I got my master's degree and met my husband. Um, and then I'll just give you one other quick example. Following Monterey, I went to Pacific Fleet. And when I got to, um, the Pacific Fleet headquarters in Hawaii, um, I was working for the N2 who was an 06. And he needed someone to work the night shift because the Admiral, who was a 4-star Admiral, wanted a daily intelligence briefing, uh, at 7:00 AM. So someone had to work overnight to prepare that briefing. And, um, of course no one wanted to work nights, but I volunteered. I worked the night shift and, uh, that actually gave me 2 opportunities. The first was I got face time every morning with the boss, not only with my boss, but the boss's boss with the Admiral. And then second, it freed me up during the day to go back to school. So I went to the University of Hawaii and got my PhD, and I wouldn't have been able to do that if I were working, you know, a normal, a normal day job, so to speak. So taking on that advice again and working the night shift was another great opportunity.

Wow.

And also as a diplomat in Vietnam, you had a chance to meet the President of the United States and Secretary of Defense at the time.

Rumsfeld.

One question I have for you is, briefing senior commanders and people way, way up the chain of command, National Security Council, how did you learn to deliver clarity without bias when stakes were very high?

Oh gosh. Well, you know, what I've learned is that this is important. I mean, I learned this as a young, brand new Naval intelligence officer. You know, one of the first things I was taught is if you're asked a question and you don't know the answer, just say, I don't know. Don't make anything up. Don't lie. Just say, I don't know, but I will find out. Right. And I think everyone in the military knows that advice. But being unbiased and providing clarity and providing guidance and advice to decision makers is something that has been important in every single job I've had in the military, but also working for a US ambassador, and then even now working for elected officials on the city council. And I think the thing is, if you're trying to convince decision makers of the outcome that you want, they can see right through you, right? They know your bias. They're smart people. So it's best just to be honest, provide all of the options, all of the courses of action that are available to them with the implications so that they have a full, you know, a full story, full situational awareness. And then trust them to make the best decisions. And then I think once you demonstrate that level of honesty and transparency, they'll also trust you, right? And seek out your advice. And so that's worked well for me.

That's really powerful because like I said in the intro, I took theater security decision-making from you. And there is a lot about decision-making, actually, back when I was only a lieutenant, but something that you taught me really become crucial later on in my career, especially when I had the opportunity to become a commanding officer. So when, when it comes to, to making decisions— so your, your PhD research focused on political decision-making and education. I guess one question I have is, what do most leaders misunderstand about how decisions are actually made?

Okay, so the, the gist of my PhD research is on political decision-making, and I can narrow it down very quickly. So decisions are either made based on values or consequences. Um, and I think if you understand those two frameworks— so people are either making a decision based on consequences and preferences because they prefer a certain outcome or they're afraid of a certain outcome, or they're making decisions based on, uh, rules and values. And The challenge is if you, if people are making decisions based on rules and values, their decisions are consistent and predictable, which is helpful for a lot of people to understand where decisions are coming from and why. If they're based on consequences and preferences, they're all over the place and you really can't predict them. You don't understand them. They're inconsistent. So I always encourage people, know what your value set is, know what your organizational values are, and let those values guide your decision-making.

Hmm, so powerful. So we do have our first question from the audience. And by the way, my city that even when I was talking about, that's from Lake Arrow, California. Good morning, Captain Rothschildt. Thank you so much for being here. And we have also Todd from Franklin, Tennessee, and Dean Ward, I think you know him, from Austin, Texas. He had like a 90-second video about a masterclass from you about how to really be courageous and make strategic decisions, I guess, under high, high pressure. Okay, here is a question. How do you deal with toxic leaders? That's number one. And then number two, Do you think the Navy promotion system selects the best leaders? And if not, why not? And what would you change?

Oh, gosh. Okay. So how do you deal with toxic leaders? Well, I guess if they're toxic, they're not really leaders. Right? So they're maybe trying to be leaders. I think, you know, that kind of— that question falls into that category of, you know, how do you deal with difficult people? Right. And, um, I guess I'll go back to my core principle of, um, try to understand people's values.

Yes.

Um, try to understand where they're coming from and find common ground. So, um, sometimes that's the best you can do with difficult people, especially when they're in a leadership position. Listen, find common ground, and, and try to understand their values and where they're coming from. Um, do I think the Navy promotion system selects the best leaders? I don't really know. I, I'm not in that system. I haven't really been in the, in the military system, so to speak, for about 20 years. I don't know how those decisions are made, but I will say that I think in general, in any industry, um, you know, we'd like to believe that the best people, the hardest workers, those with integrity and honesty rise to the top. Um, I don't know if that's always the case. You know, there's a lot of other factors, um, that can influence those decisions, you know, networking and, um, and things like that. And, and it's unfortunate, but I also think that, uh, I'm a big believer that what's meant to happen happens. So if you're meant to be in that role the path will open up for you. And if you're not, a better opportunity will come about. And it may not be fair and transparent, but sometimes that's out of our control.

I guess one thing I would say about that, again, my sea daddy who's watching right now, one of the best advice he gave me was as a junior officer to go to Millington and be a recorder assistant. That was the best decision of my military career because when you go there, you actually see how the sausage is made, how the Navy decides who is going to be promoted. Best experience of my life. And all of the junior officers watching right now, I absolutely, I'm begging you, go to Millington at least once and you're going to understand why the FITREP is written and who it's written for. Because those people that the Navy promotes, I can tell you, I went there a week before I went over to 2,000 records. And it was by within a couple of days, I was able to tell if somebody was going to get promoted or not just by the way their fit rep and their record was, because it seems like it was the same admiral that wrote the fit rep for everybody that got promoted. It was written exactly the same way, top 1 of 100 or whatever, EP, promote now. I mean, it was very, very clear the fitness report was written for the board, not for the ego of the person, and it was very clear those people should be promoted. So anyway, just my two cents. I think the system isn't perfect, but it's pretty good. All right, so I guess another thing about making decision then, what decision-making skill do you believe military officers and tech leaders too, I care about those people as well, must intentionally practice, not assume they already have?

Mm.

Um, I would say one thing we all need to practice, um, is discipline. You know, sometimes we want to either get something done to check it off, or we want to make a decision quickly and then move on to the action. Action is more interesting than the decision-making. But I think being disciplined in our thought process and as an example, you know, ask yourself, is this urgent? And if it's not urgent, you don't necessarily have to make a decision right then. You can wait and you can think on it. And I think that's, that's really invaluable. So sometimes when someone asks a question, you want to respond quickly, you want to provide an answer right away. You want to make a decision right away. And it's perfectly fine to just say, can I think on that? I'd like to sleep on that. Can we talk about this tomorrow? And really think about, is this urgent? Do we have to take action? And we'd probably do well, all of us, at every level of government to just take some time and be disciplined in our thought process.

Wow, that's so insightful. So Dr. Luscious, when you think about former students like me and others who are now leading in the military, government, or the industry, What do you obstac from your classroom long after the syllabus was over? And by the way, your syllabus was 12 pages. That should be a crime somewhere.

Oh my gosh, it was? I'm sorry. I don't even remember that.

Yes.

Okay, I'll blame that on the Naval War College. Oh, well, you know, so one of the classes, this was my favorite class to teach actually, and it's a lesson that sticks with me and I hope it sticks with the students that I taught over the years. Um, there was a class on ethics and the one of the articles that we used was an article about King David and Bathsheba.

Yeah.

And, um, I remember talking to the students about that. You know, the gist of the article was that as you rise through the ranks, um, whether in the military or, you know, even in private sector, as you, as you rise up and become a CEO or a leader of any kind, some some leaders believe they're untouchable or that they can get away with things because of their position of authority. And so the article uses, you know, the affair that King David had with Bathsheba as an example of that and how things really just spiraled out of control after that. But I remember talking to the students about having an ethical framework. And again, it goes back to defining your values. Because if you wait until you're in an ethical dilemma to figure out what to do, it's too late. You really have to know how you're going to respond before you're in that ethical dilemma. Because, um, and again, it comes— I think it comes back to practice. Like, know your values and practice your values on a daily basis so that when you're faced with that ethical dilemma, your response is automatic. And I remember, you know, saying to students, um, you know, it's not like you can just go about your life and then all of a sudden a switch is going to turn on. It's like, oh, okay, now I'm ethical. That's not the way it's going to work. It's practice every single day, practicing your values, knowing and defining your values so that, um, when you are faced with that dilemma, you know how to respond. And I remember that class in particular, and I hope some of those lessons stuck with the students.

Absolutely. The Bev Sheba syndrome, I think was the name of the—

Yes. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

Wow.

You remembered.

Powerful. Yes. And so what's very interesting with your career, you've been in uniform, academia, and local government as well, specifically during COVID I think for people of my generation, it's really two things come to mind. We will never forget 9/11 and COVID. But during COVID you really helped lead the community through overwhelming demand, public anger, and system failure. What did that moment teach you about leadership under fire?

COVID was very challenging because so much of what we were doing as decision makers and as public servants was driven by fear and uncertainty. And obviously those are two things you don't want to drive your decision-making, but that's what was, I think, pressed upon us by members of the public. So, you know, the position I was in at that time, serving as Assistant City Manager, I was responsible for public communication and we communicated a lot, I think, Open communication, full transparency, and patience. Being patient with people and understanding that, you know, they were scared, they didn't know what was happening, especially early on. There was so much unknown. And then that fear kind of transitioned into anger with, you know, vaccines or masks or whatever they were for or against at the time. So it was really just trying to manage the emotions of our community and our residents, and doing that again by just having really open and honest communication, being transparent, and being patient.

Well, we have another question from the audience. Many large successful companies have disappeared over the past 20 years or lost significant market share— IBM, Kodak, Sears, and on and on. Can you draw any analogies between the reason those companies have failed in military strategy?

Hmm, that's a great question. I, I do think, um, in both cases, both for the private sector and the public sector, including the military, we constantly have to be adapting to new technologies and, um, and changing needs of the people, right? I had this conversation just like a week ago with my husband about, you know, remember large bookstores. We miss Barnes Noble and Books-A-Million and, you know, those, those large bookstores that we used to be able to just sit for hours and have a cup of coffee and read a book or flip through a magazine. And those are very few and far between nowadays because of Amazon, because of technology and convenience. Um, and I think the same is true with the military is constantly being able to adapt to new threat scenarios, new technologies, now AI, of course, and understanding not only the things that we have to change, but also understanding how our adversaries are changing and adapting so that we can keep up with them.

Let's, let's talk a little bit about one of your bestselling books. This one, Scrappy. It's actually pretty easy to read. One quick question I have about that is, so you are reflecting kindly on leadership and on life and your run for Congress. What lesson from the Campanile still guides your leadership today?

Oh gosh, yeah, so running for Congress was quite an experience for me. In fact, I I really wanted to run for higher office. I have always been interested in foreign policy and national security, and I thought those are the areas where I could really contribute. Unfortunately, I, you know, ran in a district where the, the numbers were against me, and, and I had a pretty, I had a, a pretty strong opponent in, uh, you know, Jimmy Panetta, who Secretary Leon Panetta's son. So I had an uphill battle, but I'm glad I did it. And I think that, you know, one thing that's really important for people in a leadership position— I wouldn't consider myself in a leadership position back then, but, but I think, you know, people have to be willing to take risks. And it's hard to be a leader when you're comfortable.

Yes.

So you have to be willing to, to be uncomfortable. And at that time, um, you know, I, I quit my job. So I quit working for the Naval War College, quit teaching, and, uh, and poured myself into this run for office and then failed. And, um, and that was, that was crazy, right? So I ended up with no job, no Congress, no nothing, and really having to start over. So being willing to take risks and also recognizing that when you do take a risk, you might fail. So then what? What are you going to do? And, um, and you realize that you can start over. You can start over and you can still be successful. You can still create a new path. Um, and, um, and that's what I've done.. And I think, you know, people who are leaders, there's a good saying, you know, leaders are readers, leaders are learners, people who are constantly willing to learn and grow. And that's what happened through that process.

Wow. That's so powerful. Thank you so much for sharing, because I feel like most of the time in my life, I don't really learn very much from my successes, but whenever I fail, I learned a whole lot.

Yeah.

And that is very powerful. Now, for especially the junior officers who are listening now, like we mentioned, this man had a huge impact on your life. And one advice he gave you, if you want to be extraordinary, be willing to do what no one else wants to do. What would you advise to a junior officer who is listening right now? And who maybe is dreaming of command one day?

Hmm, yeah, that's a good question. Um, I think I would— I guess I have, um, two things. One is very simple, um, and that is complain up. So anyone, anyone who— even a junior officer is still in a leadership position, right? Don't complain down, don't complain to your peers or your subordinates. If you have an area that you think deserves improvement or modification, complain up and, and propose solutions, right? And then the other thing I would say is be willing to adapt to your boss's communication style. So I've had lots of different bosses. All of them communicated very differently and I had to adapt to them. They did not adapt to me. But I think when you're willing to do that, you can be successful. So you can, you know, speak their language and provide them the support that they need. So I actually, just as a quick aside, We have summer camp counselors that work at our park here in Marco Island, and the manager of parks asked me at one point, would I come over and talk to the summer camp counselors because they're college students and there was kind of some gossip and drama and, you know, just silliness going on that was becoming very distracting. So I spoke to them and I said to them, what is your job here? And they said, oh, we, you know, we take care of the kids. I'm like, no, what? Why are you here? You know, oh, well, we're— we have to keep kids safe. I'm like, no, why are you here? I kept asking them, asking them until they're all very confused, like, oh, we thought we're just here to take care of the kids. And I said, you're here to make your boss's life easier.

Wow.

You're here to support the parks manager. You're here to take something off her plate. And I think if we go into every role with that mentality, it's not, I'm not here for my success. I'm not here to make myself look good. I'm here to make my boss look good. I'm here to take something off his plate or her plate and make their lives easier. That's how we become invaluable. And so I think for, for junior officers, like, you know, communicate, adapt your communication, and try to promote and help your bosses succeed.

Wow, that is very insightful. Thank you. Actually, that's a great segue for the second half of the show where we focus mostly on leadership principles. What would you say then is maybe one of the greatest lessons you've ever learned in life, in leadership in general?

Hmm, I think to listen, listen more. I know that sounds very, very simple, but, um, you know, I watched a very, um, talented ambassador, Ambassador Michael Marine, who I worked for at the U.S. Embassy in Hanoi. And, um, he, he was not a man who spoke a lot, um, but he listened a lot. And the thing is, I think when people think about diplomacy and they think about being effective negotiators, they think that, uh, you know, they think of game theory, or they think about one-upsmanship, um, or how to compromise, or what they're willing to compromise. But what I learned from him is just listen, and then listen some more.

Wow.

And, um, through that listening you then learn what, what your other, the other side's values are. You also hear what their fears and concerns are. And again, if you go back to decision-making, decisions are made based on either your, your fears of consequences or your values. So the more you listen, the more you get to know that other side, and that's how you really gain leverage.

Wow, that is very powerful. So what do you think is the, uh, secret of your success again in uniform, academia, local government? Why are you so successful, you think?

Well, I appreciate that you're saying I'm successful. I never really thought of myself that way. I always thought of my career as kind of like, you know, a roller coaster, lots of ups and downs. And I would say that I've been pretty persistent. I remember when we returned from living in Vietnam and we moved to Monterey, California, I basically showed up at the Naval Postgraduate School, at the Naval War College offices, and begged them to hire me. And I pretty much said, I'm going to come every single day until you give me a job. And finally, after a couple months, they gave me a job. And then when I got this job, you know, I went to my boss and I asked to be promoted and I asked to be paid more. And I think, you know, I've been pretty persistent in going after what I want. And sometimes it's worked and sometimes it hasn't worked. But I, you know, I try to do that with, I don't know, I guess with a sense of humility too. Not that I necessarily deserve it, but that I want it and I'm going to work really hard for you and I'm going to make it worth your while if you make this decision.

Wow, that's really powerful, which reminded me of one book you had recommended before, Women Don't Ask: Negotiation and the Gender Divide. Can you tell us a bit more about this book, why our listeners should Read it.

Yes. So, uh, yeah, I listened to this book on, uh, an audiobook several years ago, and, um, the author was in graduate school, and, uh, at some point in grad school, all of the students had to do certain internships. And, uh, her male classmates were, uh, assigned these, you know, kind of prestigious, well-paid internships. And she went to the professor and she said, well, you know, why did all the male students get these paid internships? And he said, because they asked. And, and she ended up writing a book about that. That's how she starts a book. And she ends up writing a book about that and then provides all of this data about, you know, essentially men being promoted, men being— getting pay raises. And over time, how that adds up to just a trajectory for success. That isn't necessarily seen by women because simply women don't ask. And actually reading that book empowered me to, to ask. And, and it's worked.

Wow. That is really, really powerful. I know with both of my daughters, I kind of tell them also, like, in my opinion, my experience, I learned that from my wife too. Before they apply for any job, they try to make sure they are 100% qualified with whatever the job description say. I'm like, no, for me, if I'm about 40% qualified, I go ahead and apply because I may even help them change the role description once they hire me. But for some women, at least in my family, women I know, they wait to be fully qualified before they even take the courage to apply. So that might have something to do with it too.

Right. And the book actually talks about that as well, about that kind of hesitancy that women have to even apply, and they second-guess themselves and question themselves. Um, but I will say, and I, I just want to throw this out there, and I think it's really important, um, that book in particular, and my, my own belief system is that, um, you know, men are not the enemy. It's not that men are setting up women to fail or that men are somehow keeping women down. Everything she talks about in that book is actions that women are taking against themselves, against their own success. And I know in my own career I have been successful because I've had a lot of men supporting me and, um, I've had male bosses and female bosses, um, but my mentors have been men. And the men have really stepped up to motivate me, mentor me, and encourage me to step out of my comfort zone and do better and be better.

Powerful. So we know that leaders are learners. What are you learning right now?

Oh, gosh. So I'm really— well, I've taken on this new role of interim city manager. I've been in the role now for one month. And, um, you know, I just went from having one boss to having 7 bosses. And, um, and my, my current bosses are the elected members of the city council who appoint the city manager. And I'm really grateful they appointed me to this role on an interim basis, uh, while we do an application process. And, um, you know, all 7 of them are very different individuals. They have different communication styles. They listen differently. They hear things differently. They have different goals, different motivations. And so I'm learning how to adapt to the 7 of them, how to communicate differently, understand what they want from me and how I can help them succeed. Again, my job is to make sure they're successful and I really want them to be successful. They're the leaders of this community and I really do want them to be be successful. So I have to understand what success looks like to them. And, you know, adapting to one boss is one thing.

Yes.

But adapting to 7, I'm learning, I'm learning through that process. But I'll also say, on a personal note, I'm learning to cook. I mentioned early on, I didn't— I was never, you know, really into cooking or anything like that. But About a year ago, I decided I just wanted— I just want to learn something completely new, not in my professional life, just in my personal life. I wanted to cook healthy meals for my family, and I wanted to be creative and just learn something completely new and different. And it's been really, really rewarding and kind of therapeutic too. So I encourage—

wonderful.

Stepping out and just learning something new.

Well, that is quite insightful. And by the way, what I mentioned earlier, the masterclass you all gave us on negotiation under intense pressure, that was by a vote of 5 to 2 that you were recently appointed. That was really wonderful to see. Let me ask you this then. If you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, they could be alive, dead, or even mythical figures, Who would you choose and why?

Um, well, I just mentioned some of the men in my life who have, you know, stepped up to, to help me grow and become the person I am. So 3 of those men, you know about Peter Schramm, my professor from Ashland University who has since passed. Um, my stepdad Ernie McGeorge, who has also— he passed away about 10 years ago, but he, um, he actually stepped up when I was getting ready to go to college and there wasn't enough money to pay for me to go to college. And, you know, we were struggling to get loans and financial aid, and he, um, he cashed in part of his retirement to help me pay for college. And, uh, I know that was a sacrifice for he and, and my mom. And so that really— but again, it, it changed my life. And then the third person would be, uh, Kip Holley. And Kip is someone who I didn't even know until I, uh, ran for Congress. And he had worked in the Reagan administration and both Bush, uh, White Houses. And, um, and he joined my campaign and he volunteered his time, donated a lot of money to the campaign, and just, uh, helped me tremendously. And, um, it was amazing how, you know, you know, I guess you expect something from your family or you expect something from your professors or your friends, but to have a complete stranger, uh, just step out and, and help and dedicate so much time to my campaign was really meaningful.

Wow, that is powerful. And we also love to read you. So we've already told everyone they need to get a copy of your book, Vietnam's Political Process. I think it's good, especially for those in the military, but also scrappy campaigning. And we've already mentioned this book, Women Don't Ask. I believe there is also this book that you recommended before, Becoming a Personal Influence. Why should the audience read this one?

So this is actually, I think, of all leadership books, this John Maxwell is my favorite. And, and this book, Becoming a Person of Influence, is actionable. So, you know, a lot of leadership books are great on theory, but this one is actually actionable. And, and a quick preview, basically it talks about, you know, 4 levels of leadership, and the first level is modeling. Be a, be a good role model. Second is motivating. And obviously you have to really get to know the people who are working for you in order to motivate them. Third level is mentoring, uh, which really takes a lot of commitment to pour yourself into mentoring someone else and helping them succeed. And then the fourth level is when you start to multiply. Um, the leaders you've created are now creating leaders.. And that's just a great, I think, a really great framework to strive for. And like I said, it's a, it's a great book and it's actionable.

Wow. And then finally, there is this one that you mentioned this morning, How to Lead When You Are Not in Charge.

Yeah, another great book because again, especially for any, I think, senior enlisted, junior officers, people starting off in their careers, it does not matter what your title is. It does not matter at what level you are in an organization. You can lead even if you're not in charge, and you can do that through your attitude. You can do that through your intellectual curiosity, just being a curious person, wanting to learn, wanting to help others. Um, and that's a great book that, that defines those steps as well.

Wow. Okay, is there maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

Oh gosh. I, I don't know about that. I, I recently watched a really great movie that I found inspiring, and it's called The Iron Lady. It's about Margaret Thatcher and, and her, her career path and her successes, but also a lot of challenges that came along with becoming the first woman prime minister and taking on that leadership role in a very male-dominated society. So that, that, I guess that's as, as close as I can think. But, um, yeah, great story.

Yeah, I also think like she didn't probably didn't get as much credit as she really deserved. Maybe it's because she was a woman, I don't know. But yes, definitely has affected the rest of history, even against communism and I love that. And by the way, we have another LinkedIn user coming from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Thank you for being here. If you have a question for Dr. Lucius, let us know. We have only about 5 minutes left, but let me ask you this, Dr. Lucius. If you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Hmm. I think it's, uh, at this point in my life, my number one priorities are my husband and my son, you know, and I want them to know that, um, that they're loved unconditionally. I remember, I'll just tell you very briefly, I remember when I was stationed on a ship, I had a really good friend who was a pilot. His name was, uh, Jim Knapp. And he asked me one time, like, what are you really good at? And I said, oh, I'm good at, like, communicating complex things in an easy-to-understand way. And he said— I said, what are you really good at? And he said, I'm good at loving people. And I thought, oh my gosh, like, my answer seemed so trivial, right? Oh, I'm good at communicating, you know. And he said, I'm good at loving people. And he was married and had kids. And, um, I'll never forget that because, um, I think that's something I'm striving for in my life. And if that's the way I end my life, just, uh, loving the people in my life, that will be success.

Wow. So if you had a magic wand and could solve any problem, what is one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

Oh goodness. Um, well, I call this my benefit of the doubt theory, and I think, um, if there's one thing I could change about our humanity or about our society, I think, uh, if we could all just give each other the benefit of the doubt, it would solve a lot of problems. Right? Sometimes we assume that people have the worst intention or people are purposely slighting us or people are purposely being rude or, or just, or just up to no good trying to take advantage of government services or whatever the case might be. But I think genuinely, if we just give people the benefit of the doubt, you know, most of us are, are just trying to live our lives. Take care of our families. We're trying to get by and do the best that we can on a daily basis. If we assume that of others, we'll all be in a better place.

Wow.

Thank you so much. We're getting toward the end. And Christopher is joining us from Detroit. Now, how can we add value back to you?

Well, thanks for asking that. Gosh, I'm really grateful for this podcast and for people who are listening or will listen later. Yeah, I mean, I've gotten a lot of support on LinkedIn, which I really, really appreciate. So, uh, follow me on LinkedIn, follow the City of Marco Island on LinkedIn. We are building a really great community here and I'm proud to, to be part of that. Um, read Scrappy Campaigning. Like you said, it's an easy read. Uh, and, um, and hopefully it'll help somebody out there who wants to run for office someday. Or just be a leader in their community.

Wow.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, this is really one of the best Christmas gifts for me this season. Thank you for being here. I guess actually, before I ask you this question, is there a question I should have asked you that I haven't asked yet? Anything you wanted to share that we didn't get to talk about?

I don't think so. You did a great job. I have to tell your listeners, wow, like there was so much preparation that went into this. I know you you read everything and looked at all these old videos and you had a great list of questions. So thank you, I appreciate this.

Well, this is, I think, probably the most important question I ask every guest. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had in academia, the US Navy, and city government, what would you say to 17-year-old Casey? Um, actually, I just found out through my research your middle name was Miller, right? Casey Miller. What would you say to her? And I believe I have a picture of her right here around 17 years old. What would you say to her?

With the big hair? Uh, I would say, um, don't be afraid to make mistakes. Learn, learn from your mistakes and then move on. And I would also say that, uh, striving is exhausting. You don't constantly have to be striving for the next thing. Enjoy where you are. Enjoy where you are.

Wow, powerful. Okay, we are toward the end. This is going to be a lightning round, uh, rapid fire, so don't take too long to think. What is one word that defines great leadership? Honesty. Honesty. Okay. Morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Oh, I have a daily reader that I read every day out on my lanai, um, you know, with some Bible verses.

Wow, fantastic. So what is a book or a quote that changed your life?

Oh, I think a book that changed my life is, um, is John Maxwell.

Okay, I think you're talking about this one, right?

Yes.

Yeah, very good. Who inspired you most today?

My husband.

A leadership habit you refuse to compromise on?

Oh, I— well, I won't, I won't be dishonest, so sometimes people want that, but I won't do it.

And what is maybe a question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

Hmm. Am I doing the right thing for the right reasons?

Powerful. Okay. And what did you want to be when you were a kid?

I wanted to be President of the United States.

Wow. Okay. 3 adjectives describing you as a child.

Oh, gosh. Energetic, curious, and outgoing.

As an adult?

Energetic, curious, and outgoing.

Oh, the same. Very good. Okay, this is the very last question. One word that represents our shared experience in this podcast today?

I think faith. Good.

And I'm just so grateful. Thank you so much, Dr. Kasey Luchas. I can't believe you're on the other side of the screen. Thanks so much for being one of our master teachers today. I've learned so much from you and thank you for adding so much value into our life.

Thank you, Bob. Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all your listeners.

Thank you so much. Well, everybody, this was it. Dr. Casey Lucius, everyone. Great, great leader, great strategic and thinker, communicator, as you have seen. So I am really, really overjoyed we were able to all be back here. It looks like we have another comment. Okay. I see Daniel Morris, good morning, and Christopher, great words of wisdom, Casey, you have a support network here all the time, anytime. I love that. And we have somebody else, let me see, oh, from Twitch, okay, they're saying great, wonderful. Those people usually play games, but looks like somebody is listening today, wonderful. Okay, so to end today, I want to remind everyone that this Friday I'm gonna be speaking with Daya. She's a cybersecurity professional. And then on Monday, I will be speaking with Captain Tess. She's going to be talking to us about the psychology of command. So those are the next two interviews I have set up for you guys, and I look forward to being back tomorrow. Tomorrow we're gonna have a 10-minute AI recap. That's one of the previous interviews I've had, and we're going to give you the condensed 10-minute recap, all done by artificial intelligence. And if my guest spoke any other language than English, then I would have a version in their native languages also. So far we've done our show in Spanish, in my native French, in Portuguese, and in Italian. And it looks like next week we may have one in Russian also. Of course, I don't speak a word of Russian, but artificial intelligence knows exactly how to do that. So thanks again for watching the show today. And, uh, see you, uh, tomorrow. Bye.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.