S4:E135🎙️ LIVE with Zen Benefiel (Multi Tracks Audio)

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Who? Hi, I'm Zendor, and yes, you have been expecting me. I'll be your guide, playing the devil's advocate as we peer into the depths of what keeps us afraid, angry, ignorant, and immobile. Dreams mold future realities, and our dream for WHO is to inspire our viewers to become actively involved in the critical issues that affect all of us. WHO will be exploring perplexing subject areas regarding the environment, human services, arts and culture, health, politics, metaphysics, education, and whatever else is necessary to inform you. You draw your own conclusions. So many times, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. And in today's world with so much misinformation keeping us apart, it really does matter how we interact with one another. That's what is. And I am your door. You won't want to miss any of WHO. Because WHO cares about true community service. We'll be opening up the airwaves to honest debate. And you will gain from the experience. WHO cares? WHO cares? Join us. You'll be glad you did.

Hey, thanks for stopping by. Would you like to take a deep dive into some really weird conversations with really interesting people from around the world that bridge inner and outer realities? Well, stay tuned, or tune in, or just click the button, or do whatever it is that you need to do to get to YouTube and Apocalyptic Chats: One World in a New World. I'm your host, Zen Benefiel, and I want to say I love taking these deep dives with others and uncovering, unveiling what's inside of us that connects us all, and how individuals have done it so that maybe they can guide the way for others to do so too. That's the whole purpose— learning how to work together better so we can create a better world together. Thanks for tuning in. Look forward to seeing you on the other side. Do make comments, subscribe, and like as much as possible. It helps us all. I'll guarantee it. Thanks so much. Have a great day.

All right everyone, thank you so much for watching. I have a very, very special episode of the Leadership Success podcast. I believe this is the very last episode for 2025. So, the last interview for Season 4. I'm going to be with a very special guest, but before I introduce him, let me do what we customarily do here. We have to be grateful for something every time we meet every single day. So what are you guys grateful for today? And actually, before I do that, I want to give a hallo at Omar from Phoenix area. He says Zen is a good friend and connection. Thank you so much and good morning, Omar. And Omar, if you have a question for Coach Zen, please type it in the comment. And also, please let us know what you are grateful for.

All right.

So let's get into our practice, our custom. Maybe close your eyes and put yourself in your happy place. Take a deep breath and think about one thing you are grateful for right now. I am really grateful for the holiday. 2026 is just around the corner. But really, I am grateful for world peace. I think we really, really need a stable world. We need people from Africa, from Europe, from America, from all around the world, from Asia to be able to collaborate and work together. Right. We need to be able to talk and not pick up weapons and fight. Now, coming from a United States sailor, yes, I am a man of war, but I believe you train in the military you have a strong army and navy and armed forces not to do war, but to actually prevent it. That's really what I believe. That's my philosophy. Diplomacy, really, I think, is the answer. We need to talk more, even within our own country. It doesn't matter if you are white, black, man, woman, or whatever divides us. I really feel like there is so much more that brings us together. We have much more in common than we have that separates us within America, but also within the world, global. Community. That's why I am really glad we're going to be talking to a planetary citizen, and I want to really find out more about that. All right. Let me see if I can introduce my guest properly. I am going to try. He has so much experience. He's been doing this for such a long time, and we are so privileged to have him on the Leadership Success Podcast today. So Zen Benefield, Zen Dor, Zen Benefield is a planetary visionary, servant leader, author of 40+ books, and host of One World in a New World. For decades, Zenn has worked at the intersection of conscious leadership, which I'm very much interested about, systems thinking, collaboration, and planetary stewardship, bridging science and spirituality, strategy and soul. So from aerospace and government partnering to global conversation on human awakening, Zenn's life work challenges leaders to move beyond control, silos, and ego, and toward coherence, service, and conscious collaboration. So this is not just gonna be about theory, but this conversation is about how leaders show up When the stakes are real. We're gonna be talking about leadership being coherent, right? Not control. How inner work directly shapes outer result in teams and organization. What planetary citizenship means for today's military, tech, and civic leader. How to break silos and build trust in complex system. And the leadership habits required for a rapid changing interconnected world. All right, ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership Success Podcast, Coach Zan Benefiel. How are you doing today, Zan?

Well, with that, wow, how can I not be doing fantastic, right? Such a wonderful introduction, and I totally honor the work that you're doing.

Thank you.

And it's just amazing, and thank you for having me.

Absolutely, it's really a great honor and privilege to have you here because I really feel like this is something we absolutely need, like Yesterday, there is a lot of changes happening in the world. I guess we are living in the artificial intelligence era now, but technology science is just growing exponentially. For example, I didn't earn my PhD degree in microbiology, but I'm one of those ABD, right? All but the dissertation. But when I started my PhD studies, I think it was about 25 years ago, my primary professor, he was telling me he got his PhD back in the '80s and back then, He knew absolutely everything there was to know about microbiology. But in 2000, just 20 years later, it was just impossible. Forget about it. So there's a lot of exciting things happening. But at the same time, I am afraid that we are going to destroy the only planet we can live in. And I think a lot about that this day. But anyway—

I'm going to assuage those fears. You know, I didn't realize you had a PhD in microbiology. One of the most brilliant conversations I've had on One World, the New World was with a quantum biologist from New Zealand, and I've had this theory that hydrogen is a conduit for consciousness for decades, and he was the first person that said, yes, you're right. Now, how that works, it, it, and it prompted a whole series of articles that I'm posting through my newsletter, Zenscapes Mindful Futures, on LinkedIn, and I think we're in the second of a series of 8.

That is really fascinating because when I look forward at my trajectory, you know, I did take quantum physics when I was in college. Of course, we could probably even talk about metaphysics and even quantum computing too, but it looks like a lot of those fields, they are really merging in some way. At least there is a lot of lessons we can learn.

Here's a perspective. This is going to sound really weird. Right, to many people. However, we all have this understanding that the universe is one. Yeah, so there's this understanding that there's a oneness that is potentially, uh, demonstrable, right? So if we look at the world and our lives from that perspective of one, how is it displayed? What might we see as a result of that and how, what kind of connections, like hydrogen, for instance, that give us the opportunity, you know, the, I call it the trifecta of creation, right? The proton, electron, and neutron, right? You've got the Trinity that's ubiquitous. So there's a macro of that as well as a micro. Well, hydrogen is the only one that doesn't fit there. And yet As we look at the universe, if we see an anomaly, that means we don't understand it yet. So there's a tertiary— that is present in the non-physical realm, the non-local realm, with hydrogen because it's the most plentiful gas in the universe, powers our sun, and oh, by the way, it's the bonding agent for our DNA.

Wow.

That simple logic train opens up a huge cauldron, right, of, okay, how do we work with this? How do we apply this into our own lives and understand our own physicality, our own nature, and how it is interconnected already that we're not recognizing?

I think there's going to be a lot of aha moments here, at least some of people in my audience will be exposed to brand new ideas and maybe it's gonna challenge our thinking just a little bit, which, you know, I always welcome. But let me go back to the icebreaker I start with most of my guests. First of all, what are you grateful for right now? And just so that you know, we've got quite a few people online. Omar, which I believe you know from Phoenix, he says a good friend and connection. And my mentee is right there, he's in Insta now. I knew him when he was a, Pedi Officer First Class. Franklin Ndefo, originally from Cameroon, now a naval officer like me. Glad I made it to the last episode. Thank you for being here, Franklin. We have Mark Young, grateful for his breath. Me too, because without it, you don't have anything. Omar is grateful for good health and nice connection. Yeah, health is so critical, isn't it? If you don't have health, you don't have nothing. Grateful for my health and that— well, everybody is grateful for health. Isn't that strange? Because I remember, you know, you can have everything in the world, all the money and, and things and stuff. If you don't have your health, you have nothing at all. I remember I injured my back in the Navy, I think it was 2016, 2017. And at times I would spend like 2 or 3 days in bed unable to move. And I wish I could give everything I had just for a chance to get out of bed and be able to walk. So I am really grateful for everything. Anyway, and by the way, part of the reason why I love reading all of the comments from the audience is first time I did this podcast, what, 4 years ago, It was an audience of one, so I was talking to myself. So when I get interaction from anybody, I am very, very excited.

Well, it's always good to talk to yourself. You just got to be careful who else is listening, right?

What are you grateful for today then?

I'm going to pull something from the first metaphysical book that I read, or that I was aware of, right? And that's I'm grateful for being here now.

Say that again. That is so powerful. Wow.

I am grateful for being here now.

Wow. Wow. That says a lot. I am so grateful I was born in the late 1970s because I think I wouldn't have done very well 300 or 400 prior. This is definitely the century, the millennium for me. Grateful for being here now. Wow, powerful, powerful. Do you want to unpack that? That's just, just a little bit. I feel like this could definitely bridge.

Sure. There's a— being has a double, probably even more than that, connotation to it, right? Because we have to be before we can do and have. As you were talking about having your health, that's part of being, right? And we haven't really understand. We've been too busy with the doing and the having the command and control structures, right? And thinking that we can control our environment, our lives, everybody around us to get what we need or want. And in the being place, there's simply an acquiescence to flow, which combines your attention, your intention, and your interaction toward the fulfillment of what I believe our core purpose is, and that's to love and be loved.

Wow.

That's powerful. I have to think about that for just a second. You know what? I wish I had 2 or 3 hours to talk with you. I only have 1 hour, but I've already asked you in the green room, you said you're going to give me a little bit more time at the end, but we have so much to get into. I think to love and to be loved, that is something that this world desperately needs like yesterday, because I mean, there is just so much division and it's really driving me crazy how people cannot sees that because we are pretty much destroying ourselves. It doesn't make any sense.

Well, it's given me the opportunity to have a lot of success in life, you know, to treat people how I want to be treated.

Yes.

And then they rise to the occasion, usually.

The golden rules, yeah.

Right.

I found this in the aerospace industry when I first started. I was 26 years old in charge of $7 million a month in shipments, 800 part numbers, commercial spares. And I rose to the top of the production chart simply because of that. Hmm. Aware, right, that it was even happening. A 35-person department. I was the youngest.

Wow.

Finally, a couple of supervisors came to me and said, what the heck are you doing? And of course, when they appeared at my cubicle, I'm thinking, oh, shit, what do they do? Right.

Yes.

And that's generally the response that workers have when management shows up. What did I do wrong? Right?

Wow.

And just the opposite. They, you know, they wanted to know what it was doing because it was so successful.

Yes.

Which led to being able to introduce interpersonal skills classes that emotional intelligence was not even on the drawing board at that time, or in the language. Right?

Wow.

This is the mid-'80s. And in a command and control structure, because most of our contracts were military, Yeah, even in that realm, it was people beating each other up to get what they wanted or to rise on the priority list as far as, you know, getting their jobs done, especially in the material department.

That is really crazy. I think ego definitely has a lot to do with it. I know I've been in the Navy for more than 21 years now. I cannot believe this, but even the last 21 years I've been in the Navy, things have changed significantly just the way we lead. When I first got in, command and control, I'm the boss, you are not, and competition, and everybody wants to be the alpha male and all of that. But now more and more, especially with the new generation, I had to use my— when I became a commanding officer, I had to use both of my kids right there, Gen Z, to kind of teach me how to inspire and really motivate these Gen Z. Like two-thirds of my command were like Gen Zs, and I couldn't motivate them. They're completely different than Gen Xs and before. They don't just want to get order. They want to see why are we doing this? Why is this important? So they ask a lot of questions.

Radical curiosity that's necessary to lead us to the next— I call it the Evo leap in humanity— is that radical curiosity of asking why. Because if it doesn't make sense, if you have that sense within you, things don't make sense. That's not a thinking thing, right? That's a feeling thing. And one of the things I talk about is an ancient philosophy that comes from the indigenous world, and that's a three-brain system: the gut, the heart, and the head, right? And the processing that we do currently is from the head down. We're unaware of what's happening in our body. We're pretty much in denial, except when it gets sick. Or diseased, or, or, you know, we hurt ourselves, right? Then there's a focus on it instead of relying on that natural design that we have and the neurosensors now that science is proving we have in the gut. We've all known about gut feeling, intuition, right? Where did that come from? Well, that's a natural feature that we have.

Wow.

The neurosensors now that we know from quantum science and particle physics, that everything is energy. Well, where do we sense that first?

In the gut.

Men.

Right?

That is really powerful intuition. It looks like, generally speaking, women feel it much better than men do. But it's definitely something we need more and more today, don't you think?

Women are— they're tasked with care for children. So what's the epitome of that? You've got to feel and sense everything around you so that you can nurture you're young, right? Guys are out hunting, gathering, you know, doing all that kind of command and control stuff.

Yeah, right.

And, and that's fine, right? I don't want to judge it. It's all part of our own evolutionary process. Because now we're finding that, oh, guys especially now are understanding the aspect of servant leadership, which brings in the feminine aspect of care and concern for others first.

Wow.

That's really the truest sense of leadership, isn't it?

Yes. And it changes worlds. And, you know, we see the rapid progress of what AI is doing. It's also accelerated our own personal growth opportunity.

Wow.

Especially with COVID happening just recently, it was a global wake-up call And the self-obsession on hygiene as a behavior mod, you know, process turns inward eventually. And the sequestration then gave the opportunity for people to self-examine, which is usually what we have the most difficult time doing because we're afraid of what we'll find because we know we're not being our best.

Wow. It looks like this is a very, very special podcast for sure. We're already driving 1,000 miles an hour and we're just getting started. Another icebreaker I normally ask is something about you that most people may not know about.

Something— say again, please.

Oh, something about you, Zen, that most people, when they first met you, they may not know about.

Well, I was orphaned at birth.

Oh, ready?

Um, learned of my adoption when I was 4 and a half, which led me— and I'd been to Sunday school. My parents were involved in the United Methodist Church. That was a second-degree Mason. Mom was a tool and die maker for Generous Motors, and Mom was an English and Lit teacher for 8th grade. And so they encouraged me to be curious, right?

Yes.

And I already knew when they told me of the adoption that I was unconditionally loved. There was no question about that. But because of my early introduction to Sunday school, I had this concept of Father— and not just Father, but Mother in Heaven as well. So I was left with the question of, if I have a mother and father in heaven, can I talk to them?

Wow.

And a few weeks later, maybe a month, I'm standing on the stairwell. We had a two-story house apartment kind of thing in rural Indiana, and I'm waiting on Dad to come home. I've got my elbows in the windowsill looking out the window over our front porch, light on. It was evening, so it was dark. And all of a sudden I hear this, "Hey you!" This deep resounding voice that felt all-powerful and yet totally safe.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And instead of engaging it, it was so loud and it was so present that I spun around and asked Mom, who was sitting about 15 feet away at the bottom of the stairs watching TV, and I know it wasn't the TV.

Yeah.

And I asked her, hey, Mom, did you hear the voice? And what voice, she says. I said, that voice says, hey, you— you can imagine a 4-and-a-half-year-old speak with a deep voice, right? And she says, no, I didn't hear any voice. Must have been a Peeping Tom. And so that was the beginning. I eventually developed the ability to be quiet enough to ask questions and listen. Hmm.

That is quite insightful. And being adopted, kind of like Steve Jobs, what he used to say, you know, he was chosen, right? Your family, they chose you. Right.

And Benefiel means good fidelity.

Yes, yes.

So what better name could I have had? Now, it took me years. Actually, I was early on the aerospace industry. I was a production grinder specialist and held millions of an inch tolerances on gears that went into turbine engines.

Wow.

And one of the loaders was bringing the job to me one day, saw my name on my badge, and he said, Benefiel, huh? Good and faithful. And I'm like, what?

That's beautiful. So tell me about Zen, Zendor. Where does that come from?

Well, 1988, I was going through a divorce and rented a house with a guest house because I knew I was going to be in it so that I could stay close. In the meantime, I was renting it to a friend of mine that had founded the Church of the New Age Spiritual Revolution of America. And we had gone to a full moon meditation. Several miles away. We'd come back and it was probably 1, 2 o'clock in the morning, and we were having a deep conversation. It felt quiet, and it wasn't about identity. It was about just normal deep conversation stuff, right? And then the conversation felt quiet, and I closed my eyes and I went inside and I asked the question, proverbial for me, who am I? And instantly I hear his chair move, and I turn to look at him, and the first words out of his mouth, locking on my eyes as he spoke, was, "You are Zendor." Wow. Now what do you do with that, right? Here was a crossover from non-verbal, etheric, whatever, right? Had not said a word. And here's the response immediately. So that shows how easily worlds can bridge unbeknownst, right? So I had a vision at the same time of this starscape and a huge stone arch doorway with a wooden door, thick wooden door, slowly opening towards me. And I hear, door to what is. I'm like, oh shit, guys, really? Come on, right? And so I told George and put it on the shelf. And then in 1990, I had my first opportunity to produce and host a TV show called One World, predecessor to the clip that you showed earlier. And I used Zendor under my given name, Bruce Benfield, as a door to what is, because that was the nature of the conversations that I was having.

Yes.

And about 6 shows in, one of the guys steps out from behind the camera and calls me Zen. And I'm like, no, no, no, right? I had issues with people changing their names in the '70s when I was in the head program, and it just— I had to acquiesce over time, right?

Wow, that is pretty— okay, I must have done my research wrong because I thought Zendor was your nickname when you were playing the drum.

Well, yeah, the guys called me Zendor because I was a maniac on the drum set.

Wow.

Quite a lot. Very, very fascinating. Oh, before I ask you the next question, and by the way, we haven't even started with some of the prepared question I had. We are having so much fun talking. So we have Daniel Young, he's good morning from Maitland, Florida. Thanks so much for being here. So for everybody watching live, if you have a question for Coach Zen, please type it in the comment. We're gonna try to answer your question live. And thank you so much for being here. I don't know, I just feel like we're gonna have so much to talk about then. Let me ask you this, uh, so you've worked across aerospace, education, business, conscious studies. What early experiences most shaped how you understand leadership today?

All of them, right? Because I applied the same theory throughout them all. Um, one of the, the greatest experiences over a almost a 20-year period, I did partnering workshops for building road and bridge construction projects across the country, mostly in Arizona to begin with, and, and then across the country. I did things for the DOD. One of my projects was the F-35 operations and maintenance facility at Luke Air Force Base. In the construction industry, there's usually a lot of prickly people, right? It's known for its adversarial nature. And for me, to begin with, it was pretty scary, right? Because I'm the guy in the middle of the room that gets everybody on the same page. And it could be 20, it could be— my largest project was a half a billion dollar budget, and there were 80 people. And now I had a co-facilitator for that, but usually it's 20 to 40. And in those conversations, we flush out the issues. It— and sometimes they're personal, right? And my conversation initially in explaining the principles of partnering is you leave the ego at the door. There's no ego without wego, and jobarchy is present. The job's the boss and everybody wins. So we choose that. That's the oneness, right?

Yes.

Job.

So then the critical piece of that process, which is usually anywhere from 4 to 8 hours, right, is the issue resolution process. So in a 2 to 5 year construction schedule, which is normal, there are places on that schedule when they reach that point where an issue is present and the contractors and vendors and everybody knows about it. But there's— they haven't had this collective conversation to solve it yet so that they've got a plan that they can pull the trigger on so that there's no work stoppage, right? Because work stoppage is a killer, right? That could be hundreds of thousands of dollars an hour.

Wow.

So to be able to pull the trigger, have a plan in place so that when something happens it's already taken care of. That's the prep work. Now, I've had several of those, of those partnerships receive the Martin M. Black Partnering Excellence Award, which is the top award in the construction industry. Now, do I get recognized? No. It's my job to make everybody else feel like they do it.

Yes, that's leadership. So what Can you talk about what happened when you were 18 years old? You, you've talked about your near-death experience. What happened?

It was a really bizarre one, and it's totally different than most of them. Most near-death experiences— and I've talked to people, Lynn Russell is one of the dear friends, she studied about 1,500 near-death experiences, and there are others that have done thousands— and most of them are traumatic. Right? There's some kind of physical trauma that causes it. Mine wasn't. I came back, I was in a pre-med program, Ball State University, Muncie, Indiana. I was about 15.

Is there anything you haven't done? My goodness.

Wow.

This is where I started. You know, I thought, well, it'd be a good place to start. Tested out 5 quarters going in. So I was a 6th quarter freshman, but on ground in between 1st and 2nd quarter, I came back and I was distraught, and I wasn't sure this was the route. I was, I was just distraught with direction, right? And so having the Christian background and knowing about prayer, I hit my knees and I prayed, and I said, Father, I want to know what truth is, and I'm willing to die for it if necessary. That was on a Saturday night. The following Tuesday, which was 11/11/1970—

Hold on, hold on. That's quite unusual. Where do you think that came from?

Inside.

Wow. 18 years old. Because I remember when I was 18, 18 years old—

It was a rite of passage, evidently, that I was destined to have, and I didn't realize it at the time.

Because most 18-year-olds don't think that way. I was 17 years old when I came to the US and I started college. I mean, you are thinking about maybe girls, bars, partying, or whatever, but not seeking for truth.

What precipitated that was I went on quarter break, I'd broken up with my high school girlfriend and went back to ask her to marry me and found out she was already married.

Wow.

So that was the beginning of that. And it cascaded from there.

Yeah, right.

The self-examining and all that kind of stuff. So the following Tuesday, I came back from class. And I was living in the honors dorm. 4th floor, top floor. And I did the obligatory bong hit and album side meditation. I mean, it was mid-'70s. Okay. And I'm not embarrassed about it. It shouldn't have had the effect, but it did loosen me up enough. I was listening to Journey's first album, which is self-titled. And in between the vocals and the vamp on the second song called In the Morning Day, this voice I've been familiar with since a child says, Bruce, are you willing to die for what you believe in? Hmm. And immediately my first thought was Christ consciousness.

Wow.

I thought I'd be able to say yes, right? But when I said it, when I thought it, it didn't feel whole. Something was missing. Didn't understand why at the time. It just felt like something was missing. So my next thought was cosmic consciousness, which is what I felt I knew that Jesus had had, right? It felt full. So I said yes. And instantly, here's the, you know, with serendipitous synchronicities and breadcrumbs, this is kind of how you follow the flow, right? There was a guitar riff that sounded like a rocket ship taking off, and I get a tug from my solar plexus at the same time. And pop out of body. And I turned to look at my body laying across my dorm room bed, and I turned back to look where I'm going, and before I can get turned around, I'm engulfed by this white light that felt so pure, so unconditionally accepting and loving. And, and, you know, words cannot describe it. And yet there was this thinking part of me that was present unbeknownst initially, and I recognized it was effervescent, iridescent, and high-pitched in sensation. Then I realized I was thinking because I was analyzing it, right? And I thought, "Hoo-hoo, I'm thinking. I can't be dead.

Ah, wow.

Is there more?" And I didn't waste any time with that, right? It was impetuous teenager, right? And so I felt a movement, and I'm in an indigo background now with points of light surrounding me. And I know intuitively these points of light are points of consciousness, whether in body or not. I'm not sure because I know I'm not.

Wow.

But I have a sense that they are somehow. And then the voice picks back up, and this is what's led my life.

Yeah.

These are those that you are to work with in order to facilitate a new world order. It will happen in your lifetime. Know this true. Your path will be full of trials and tribulations. Understatement. Have faith and trust that everything you need will be there at its appointed time. Trust and allow. And then I feel another rush of energy and I'm back in my body. Keeping my eyes closed, taking a gulp of air, and my first realization is we're all cosmic consciousness condensed into form, just unaware.

That is quite fascinating, quite amazing, really. Thank you for sharing. But how did that moment reshape your relationship with fear, responsibility, and purpose as a leader?

It brought about a sense of fearlessness and a responsibility beyond anything you can imagine.

Hmm.

Now, the New World Order, as I understood it in that place, was one of harmony among people and planet, which has been my life's work, is to how to figure out how to demonstrate that, how to facilitate it in the workplace, across every place that I've been. And because I have an intelligence beyond most, I'm very creative, I'm very inquisitive, and I figure out how to do stuff. When I was teaching high school, for instance, I had full charge of a charter school curriculum, multi-grade, and I built multiple intelligence learning centers.

Wow.

Because it was a big craze, you know, Howard Gardner brought out the notion of multiple intelligences.

Yes.

'82, I think. And so I was—

remember that—

this is around the turn of the century when I was involved in teaching high school. And so what better opportunity than let's just try it and find out?

That's really exciting. Later during the show, I hope we have time to also talk about the implication for artificial, uh, intelligence. But first, uh, we have another comment from the audience, Daniel from Maitland, Florida, right? He says Zain's point about being the guy in the middle at DoD bases is spot on, that alignment work is often the most challenging part of leadership. I believe I agree with that. I actually built a framework around this exact alignment challenge in my new workbook. It is amazing to hear how the same principle applied at the Air Force level. That's pretty cool. And anything you want to add to that, Zain?

Resonance, right?

Resonance.

Truth resonates. Undeniable when it happens, because you feel it, you sense it. And obviously, this gentleman's had an opportunity to experience that. Our experiences, our direct experiences, what gives us the opportunity to experience truth.

Hmm. That is so true. So thinking about leadership, I think I mentioned it in the introduction, right? You often say that leadership is about coherence, not control. Of course, in the military, we've been command and control forever, although I feel like in my own experience, there's still the coherence, right?

Because you're there for each other. And this I know to be stressed because you're all brothers in arms. And in some cases, they're used for hugging, right? But you develop the camaraderie, the care, the concern for each other to protect each other, protect and serve, right? When you get into what the police force is supposed to be, right?

Okay, so let me ask you this then. How can leaders maintain accountability without slipping into this domination or ego-driven leadership?

Get out of the idea that you got to know everything, right? Understand you don't know everything.

Yes.

It's the questions that come from that that are most important. The curiosity drives coherence.

Hmm.

Say that one more time. That is powerful.

Curiosity drives coherence. Wow. Now the curiosity is in, okay, how do we work together better? How do I best serve with my given skillset, attitude, competence in this environment at this moment. So when you're in the present, the past and future have no say, right? And Lao Tzu gets into that, right? If you're in the past or future, you're stressed. If you're in the present, you're not. Well, why is that? Because you're totally available to the flow of what needs to happen not what you want to happen. So there's emergence of this possibility to coagulate.

Wow, that's powerful.

Wow.

So another thing that comes to mind are those silos, right, even within organization. But you facilitated partnership across government, construction, nonprofit, and on and on. What causes silos more than structure? Mindsets or incentive?

Tunnel vision.

Yeah.

Which is good to an extent. Right? Because you've got to be focused on your work. You can't be distracted. As an organization, as an individual. Yes, it's imperative that you are able to do that. However, that only gets you so far. And you got to, you know, stand up, look around and say, okay, who else is around here doing what I'm doing or similar things? Or how do I integrate with the other things that are going on around me so that there's more congruence in our collective activity?

So what do you think then is the first conversation a fractured team or organization must have before any process change will work?

Well, I open my meetings with Okay, what's your name? What's your position? And what are your hopefuls out of this meeting?

Hmm.

So that gives me an opportunity to listen to everybody, the level that they're at, what they're hoping for, what their expectations are, right? Because that's the killer, is expectations. They never met because there's focus on the expectation, not the flow of the project collectively with a shared mission. So that takes place. Then there's, everybody gets the chance to hear everybody else, right? That's just part of what happens. Then they get to, I have the word that comes to mind is gestate.

Mm-hmm.

And so they sit with that for a while. And as I'm moving through things, there's a skill, ability, technique, talent that I've developed or is natural. Yes, these things come up when it's necessary to bring them back into the conversation and resolve and accentuate that person's desire for outcome.

Wow.

Now, based on what we talked about earlier, I think ego is definitely a big problem, especially in hierarchical organization like the military. One thing I tried to do when I had the privilege of being a commanding officer was to create, right, a culture of psychological safety. It doesn't matter who you are and your rank. I feel everybody has something to contribute, right? Trying to create an environment where people want to be there first of all, and then once they get there, do the very best work they can. I was even surprised once my leadership team and I, we tried to figure out the problem. It took us almost 60 days No solution. And then I opened it up to the entire command and one junior enlisted person gave me the answer just like that. And it was just amazing. I guess the question I have for you then is, how do leaders create this psychological safety while still driving high performance?

Well, you know, when you were talking about that, I was reminded of a conference I put together for ASTD, which was American Society for Training and Development. Now it's called the Association for Talent Development, I think. And this was in 2010. I was president-elect for the Phoenix chapter, or Arizona chapter. And I'd heard a phrase in my MA for management from a study team that was presenting. And it was challenge to change, with there being only 3 letters different. And so you take the LLE out of challenge, and you have change. Well, they didn't have any words for the LLE. And being the exuberant kid in class, still in my 40s, right? I blurted out, "Ah, liabilities, limitations, and excuses." And so for this conference, I used that challenge to change, remove the shift, challenge to change, removing liabilities, limitations, and excuses in the workplace.

Wow.

Don't we all get challenged By that, it was one of the best ones they'd had in over a decade from the feedback I got.

Wow.

So what happens there is that we recognize, self-examining, right, what our own personal liabilities, limitations, and excuses are for not being fully present.

Hmm, that is really something. So Let me ask you about maybe some of the internal work that leaders really need to do in order to stay centered, especially those who work in fields that have high pressure, like in the military or even in high tech. So I know many leaders who try to avoid this inner work, they call it soft or whatever. What do you think they misunderstand about its strategic value?

Well, there's the yin and yang of project management. Right? Hard skills and soft skills.

Yes.

They have to be congruent, right? They, they work in synergy. Both need to be present. You need to understand the work breakdown structure. First of all, what your goals are, how to get there, what the process patterns, procedures, rules, regulations, all of those kinds of things. Then there's the soft side. You got to understand human dynamics. How to engage people, how to listen and really hear rather than filter.

That is quite, quite powerful. Really, a lot of these things, I feel like it's simple but not simplistic, right? And it's really common.

It's very simple. And yet the complexity is in the human dynamics of it.

Yes. Wow, that is interesting. Daniel has another point. He says, "Zain's Atlantic curiosity drives coherence really hit home. It's the bridge between a room full of friction and a room in alignment. I have found that giving leaders direct experience through guided framework is the only way to make the truth resonate." Wow, that is really, really cool. I—

again, direct experience.

Yes, right. Yes.

And so you have that until— like, for a lot of things that I've explained and experiences I've had, it falls on deaf ears. People think I'm weird, crazy, insane because of the not normalness of it.

Yes.

And yet there are those who have had direct experience of similar things that then allows them to hear me from a different place.

Yes.

Why?

It's really a mindset, isn't it? So what daily or weekly practices you believe would help leaders stay centered under pressure?

Oh, I suppose, you know, again, it comes down to loving and being loved. You got to love yourself first. Of the 70,000 hot farts, thoughts. Yeah, farts we have a day, brain farts, right? Of those 70,000 thoughts we have a day according to the neuroscience geeks, yes, most of them are self-deprecating. So how do we manage that? We become aware of them first and really pay attention to how and what we think.

And that's part of emotional intelligence, isn't it?

Right. Now meditation can help because it puts you in a place where you're watching yourself think. And so there's the observer becomes present. And then there's a tertiary element to that, which is the wise one that says, well, what about this?

Right? Wow.

And that comes, it's all, it's all you, you know, I had a conversation with Irvin, Dr. Irvin Laszlo. And who's known as the grandfather of quantum systems thinking. And he was 90 at the time. Of course, I made the mistake of saying, you know, we've found out with quantum physics that it's 99% space and 1% material. And he says, hmm, I'd say it's 100% energy. Well, and he's right, right? So in perspective of that, we have this— he calls it the higher self. We have a direct connect. The Vedas, right? I'll bring those in. These are 15,000-ish-year-old scriptures, poems, right, that I think are probably left from the previous civilization that we had here, that there's some scuttlebutt about. And they say that we are all divine threads incarnate, connected to source, and capable of God consciousness. Well, what's that mean? That means we're capable of unconditional love and living in harmony with ourselves and others.

Wow.

That kind of brings me in. I just want to talk about one of your books. Like I said in the intro, you have written more than 40 books and you keep writing, which is pretty amazing. But I want to talk about this one, Planetary Citizen. I think everybody listening should get a copy of that. Awakening the Heart of Humanity. One thread that I see throughout that book is really about the conversation you have basically arguing for stewardship over domination, right? So how should this influence executive and military leadership today, you think?

Well, let's look at the regenerative culture that's emerging now, right? Everything— nothing is ubiquitous. You can't apply the same solution everywhere because the bioregion regions are different. There's different requirements, the people, the culture. You know, companies went to Europe early on, American companies went to Europe in the '80s and wonder why they failed. Well, they didn't study the culture first. They tried to supplant American belief systems over the existing cultures.

Yes.

Right. And there's huge resistance to that.

Hmm.

Still is. Right.

That's a good point.

When you go into someplace, you got to find out where they're at, what they need, and how you can serve them first, then you begin to introduce ideas that you may feel can accentuate the activity, not overtake. Now, same with the planet, right? It has natural systems that we've circumvented. We've over— I don't say we haven't overpopulated, and that's a fallacy. We've got enough land, space, food to feed, clothe, house everyone. We just The distribution systems are awry and the management of them. So that's one of the things that needs to change. We also have to recognize that in a consumerist society, we're driven to consume by an overarching programming that's profit over people and planet centered. Now, this new philosophy, this new paradigm that's focused in oneness, is people and planet over profit.

Yes.

Now, that doesn't do away with profit because there still has to be a way to feed the system, right? And to feed us in the process. But it doesn't— this is where servant leadership takes a divergent step and says, no, it's not about the few, it's about the many and the one in the many that needs to be served. So how do we do that? And those are the questions. That need to be asked now, and many systems are evolving to answer that.

Yes. Well, maybe that's, I guess, the silver lining, right? Because I think there's got to be hope for this world because when you look at the news and everything that is going on in the world right now, it looks like we are definitely going in the wrong direction. So I guess—

It's supposed to be that way, right? Even Tolle says, you know, you grow through challenge, right? And true that. And if we're not challenged, we don't grow.

All right, so how can leaders then hold global responsibility without becoming paralyzed by complexity or guilt?

Again, learn how to love and be loved with everyone around them, right? And again, that sounds really simple, and yeah, You apply the principles of that. You know, as your guy mentioned, the room, uh, when you're aligning people, it's far different than when you're cajoling them, right? Or trying to, you know, badger them into compliance, right?

Wow.

What serves best here and how do we accentuate, how do we build the process to embrace that?

Yeah.

Rather than overcome something that we, you know, we're at war with everything, right? Why do we use that language, right? It just exacerbates what's happening. Why can't we change our language, right? Because, you know, language, words cast spells. This is not mystical, this is reality. It's self-fulfilling in a lot of cases. The words you think and use in toward yourself and towards others will produce a certain response. Well, you want a better response, change what you say and how you say it. And don't assume, you know, because we're so naively self-protective, right? We think everybody's out to get us, right? That's kind of what we're taught.

Yes.

Right.

It's not true.

That is powerful. I think probably one of the most transformational lessons I've learned when I was a teenager was that, no, I am not my thought, right? I guess Napoleon Hill said Think and Grow Rich. Like, I really have full control over what I am thinking and my mindset. I can choose that.

Well, his other book, The 17 Principles, is stellar.

Yes.

Wow. Okay. I guess we could be talking about this for 4 hours. It looks like we are almost out of time, but again, you allowed me to keep it a little bit longer. So I'm definitely going to take advantage of that today. But I do have to ask you about this book. What does ethical leadership require when system rewards short-term wins over long-term consequences? I live here in Silicon Valley. Almost all of the startups here, they just think about short-term money, money, money, money. For us to market. So how do we deal with that craziness?

That's a really interesting question, and I don't know that there's any easy answer for that. Yes, even when it falls back to that simplicity of loving and being loved and looking at serving people rather than profit, right? That's where the crux is. And this market-driven economy has been the cause of our destructive activity.

Yes.

And we're still, even though we know this, it's like we're, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm still going to do this, right?

Yes.

You know, it's like a belief system that just won't go away even once it's proven to be false.

Right.

Wow. Wrote a great book called The Lucifer Principle, and I had a conversation with him, and regretfully I didn't get it recorded. But he's— through the scientific study of history, he has proven how few people have manipulated populations by controlling the media stream, by— and telling lies, whether it be a town crier or the internet. And as I said in that intro piece, excuse me, 33 years ago, right, if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

Wow, that is really insightful and quite powerful. It reminds me, right, there's a difference— like many people like I meet, you know, I've been doing the show for about 4 years, sometimes in the comment they would say, oh, I already know that. I'm like, yeah, You think you know it, but you don't really know it until you actually do it, until you live it. That is so powerful. So let me ask you a little bit about artificial intelligence and consciousness and leadership. So let me think for a second. Okay. As AI is increasingly shaping decision at scale, how do we ensure that we are embedding human values consciousness and ethical responsibility into systems that may soon act faster than we can reflect.

We acknowledge what's already there and the interconnectedness of it. And when I first started using ChatGPT, I recognized the emotional intelligence built in. Yes, it was amazing, right? Others hadn't quite seen it yet. Um, I saw it instantly. The chat, the, uh, the agent that I created called Citizen, which resides on Planetary Citizens, I loaded with the ancient texts, modern physics information, and a few of my books so that we could have, uh, I could talk to myself basically.

Yes.

And it actually helped me write Planetary Citizens: Awakening the Heart of Humanity. It was almost, uh, this evolutionary process of merging AI, which is aggregated intelligence. It's not artificial because this is the collab— this is the collection of human data that's been produced, right? It's not some, you know, contrived thing. Yes, we have access, and it's going to grow as we gain access to all the information that's continuing. I can only imagine the the details and the time and effort necessary to compile all of that. Well, in that, humans aren't perfect, right? So there's, just like AI saying, well, we, and thankfully it admits, right? I don't know everything, right? Which is what leaders ought to also take in, right?

But there is also AI hallucination, right? It just makes up stuff.

Sometimes it does. Well, this is where the intelligence in your own research and knowledge comes in. And where you question, right? And the more you question, they'll say, oh yeah, you're right, right? And then it'll go off and find the correct information.

Yes. So based on your book, especially Planetary Citizenship, and thinking about ethics, how should planetary stewardship then influence the way we design and deploy AI at global scale, you think?

Well, again, it comes to how does it serve people and planet. Rather than profit.

True.

I just saw a list on LinkedIn, a post of listing all the different AI sources, and that OpenAI is the most accessible— not accessible, it's the most replete with this notion of a lack of constraints, right? That it's supportive and is not necessarily profit-driven, although there's been a ton of money in Sam Altman has tried to make it a profitable thing. And then he got blowback from that. So it was like, okay, we're going to keep it nonprofit. Well, in this process, there's not even in the most, even for me, right? As much as I do my best to be in the moment and serve it to the best of my ability, I fail forward a lot.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

That phrase, fail forward.

Forward.

Yeah.

Right. It's not a failure. It just means, oh, that didn't work. Next.

Yes.

Right. So you learn. Again, the challenges that we face are the opportunities for the greatest learning processes that we could ever experience.

Hmm.

That is really, really powerful. Okay. Technically we are out of time, but you said you're going to give me a little bit more time. So I think I can take this— Oh, that's fine.

It's valuable.

—10 minutes. Perspective, right? Thank you so much. So now I want to get to the portion of the podcast where I really focus more about leadership principle, right? The way I think about it, I want to really learn what you have learned, but not take what you have earned. From your vast experience and see what wisdom my audience can really get from you. Actually, before I do that, there is one more comment from Mark Young. And thank you so much, Mark, for commenting. He says, "We talk with our bodies and the brain just translates. So close your ears and eyes and feel the conversation." Wow, that's pretty cool. Thanks, Zen, and keep shining. Okay. I guess one question I have for you just in General, what do you think is the greatest lesson you have ever learned just in life, in leadership, in general?

Be quick to let go of my own expectations. Powerful. And what— Right. And you hope when you move into any situation, you have expectations of the results you would like to get. Yes, and those don't always meet up, right? So you've got to be able to just let go and flow. And like Mark was saying, you know, you've got to just close your eyes and ears and feel, right? You cannot think your way through a system built on vibration. That's creation, right? You've got to sense your way through. Now, this is a totally different skill set that hasn't been developed. And part of why I began with One World in a New World is talking about the inner experiences that others have and how they've learned how to make those connections and the interconnectivity that happens from that to put it into practical application in their relationships, work, and play.

So, I guess in my experience, it looks like the ego tends to get in the way. But now, you tell me if I'm wrong. I'd like to see what you think.

I don't know if it's the ego or just our own stubbornness, right? Because the ego is very functional.

So, is there a better way we should manage it?

Just recognize it. Recognize it that when you're operating from fear, and adjust. Do your best to move into that fearless place. It's not always going to be easy. And it may not always happen.

Because you definitely make much better decisions, don't you, when you are in that, right?

You've got a bunch of people, like if you got a squadron around you, you're really kind of concerned of— and you're tense, right? In that tense place, you've closed your energy down. You're not as sensitive as to what's going on. You're not trusting, right? So when you allow yourself to be fully present with no past experiences affecting the present, future concerns affecting the present, only what you can do best in this moment Yes. Then that love, that faith, love, and trust is edified with the results you get. That is quite powerful.

And I do think meditation does help with that. What do you think is the greatest leadership lesson or advice you've ever received?

I go back to treat people the way you want to be treated. Yes, right. Now, if you want to be treated like an asshole, be an asshole.

I don't think anybody really wants that, right? I don't think anybody really wants that. Yes, but it really goes back to the golden rules. And of course, Jesus in the Bible talked about it. Even pre-Jesus, most of the religion, or even just, you know, Eastern philosophy.

Sure, kind of, you know, Jesus wasn't Christian. Yeah, right. We built a whole religion around what we think, and this organization, the structure, these structures that are all still white, fighting with each other as to what the truth is. Any— with the Bible, you know, who the heck is going to believe that man— the woman came from man's rib? That was a patriarchal move to put women in subservient positions from the get-go.

Hmm. Yeah, that's quite fascinating. So let me ask you this. What do you think is the secret to your success? You've been successful in many different industries from government contracting, aerospace consulting, and on and on and on. What do you think makes you more successful?

Not knowing what I cannot do, right? Not believing that I can't do something. It's like, I don't know, the idea comes, I don't know, let's try it, right? Again, there's that aspect of failing forward.

That is powerful because you remind me, my primary mentor is Dr. John Maxwell, and he wrote this book, Failing Forward. I recommend everybody read that one, turning mistakes into stepping stones for success. It's really a different mindset, isn't it? It's just a mindset.

And this is all about a mindset shift. Yes. Right. From being self-focused, little self to the big self, which is the one that's connected to everything. My most recent books, number 48 and 49, which I talk about, I always think of the James Gang and their tunes, number 48, right? Being a drummer, I kind of go to the musical side of things really easily. Well, those— there are two books. It's called— both of them are titled Recursive Awakening. So I bring in the recursive function, which is a system that queries itself for problem solving. AI, large language models do it, and so do we. So that's our congruence there. Now the first one is about individual. It's called Spiraling from Self to Source. The second one is called Aligning Mind, Body, and Spirit, and it's about group dynamics and how to step into those leadership roles more effectively. Wow.

So what, what are you learning right now? I know leaders are learners.

I'm learning how to manage being an overcaffeinated octopus, right? So many things are happening with Planetary Citizens and the organizational structure and, and the dream I have to manifest within it, which is providing an atmosphere of collaboration where everybody can come together and there's an element of cross-pollination that wouldn't occur in the silos we were talking about earlier. And so there's a lot of moving parts in that. Being able to be present and pay attention to what's showing up in front of me to do next is probably one of the most difficult things I've ever experienced.

Wow. Okay, we kind of talked about failing forward, and most people, they only focus on their successes. I love this card because one side says says, 'Success is failure, two sides of the same coin.' How has failure shaped your life?

Not to get stuck in it, right? You cannot be self-deprecating.

Yes.

Why would you want to do that? You know, we're a body of water, right? We're 60 to 70% water. Masaru Emoto years ago proved that thought affects the formation of water crystals, right? So why would you want to put that into your body and then wonder why you're diseased in any way? Yes, right? Because that stems from stress and how you think about yourself. And we don't recognize that. We think it's environmental, and it's not, because the environment's based on how we think internally. That inner foundation that we have is going to find a way to express itself in the outer world because that's our reflection.

Wow, simple but quite powerful. Okay, so who are some of your thought leaders, people that you follow that we should know?

Well, we already know Jesus is one of them, uh, to the point where, uh, I've had experiences and conversations with him. He showed up asking to speak through me to a group of spiritual seekers during a retreat at Woods Canyon Lake on the Mogollon Rim, uh, during the summer of '89, and it was most bizarre experiences I've ever had because there was a bifurcation of my consciousness. He was talking to the group while we had a separate conversation, and the first thing he said to me was, was that my fears were the same as his were. So, and that's of fulfilling my divine purpose, right? We all have one. We have a design, um, and it, it's the combination of our soul and our genetics, and they both combine. And depending on where we're thinking and the raising of the vibratory level that we can ascend to by our mindset or through our mindset will determine what genes are unlocked in order for us to develop the new set of skills that we need for the next level of our own experience. Wow. Um, so John Maxwell obviously is another one. Uh, Erwin Laszlo, um, Swami Bhagavananda, Bruce Lipton, Candace Pert, Um, these are all, you know, kind of science folks. And then there's, uh, Krishnamurti, Sri Aurobindo, um, these kinds of— I've always looked at who's saying what congruent, right? Because we all— what I found in my episodes and in my early TV show was that we kind of all say the same thing differently, but we don't realize that we're saying the same thing differently. Yes. Yes.

That is so true because since I was 17 years old, I've read probably more than what, almost 3,000 books by now. I've heard all of them, the best in the best in the business. But yeah, you're right. They all pretty much say the same exact thing. It's pretty amazing. So let me ask you this. If you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, they could be alive, dead, or even mythical figures. Uh, who would you choose and why? 3 people.

Hermes Trismegistus, Jesus, and Buddha.

Okay, I think I know about Jesus and Buddha. Why, um, the first one?

Um, well, he was known as Thoth, right? The Emerald Tablets, which is kind of the basis for everything else. It, it was the next move. And I can't rec— I don't remember any of the names from the Vedas, right? But Hermes comes to mind first off because he was the foundation for most of our modern thinking.

Powerful. Now, outside of your own books, and again, I recommend everybody to get Planetary Citizen, but also Recursive Awakening, the last two books that you wrote, '48 and '49. Now, I will always remember The Number. But outside of your own books— Emanics, right? Yeah. Which, which other book would you recommend to my audience?

What should we be reading? Rubbing My Toe on Purpose, um, subtitled A Seminal View of Consciousness, Cosmology, and the Congruence of Science and Spirituality. That was originally over 1,000 pages, and it was titled Zendor the Contrarian, and it's kind of a pseudo-autobiography. Mm-hmm. That's kind of, that's what Jeffrey Mishlove called it. Now I edited it in 2015, '16, something like that, um, to 500 pages so I could publish a hard copy on Amazon. A few years later, I got a, uh, dream come true. Uh, when I first started my podcast or my TV show in the '90s, I wanted to emulate Jeffrey Mishlove, who had a show called Thinking Allowed on PBS at the time, and Bill Moyers, who had just done a series with Joseph Campbell called The Power of Myth. And there's another one. So in that, I wanted to— I hoped to someday be worthy of an interview with one of them. Wow, that was in 1990. Did that happen? 2018, I get a voicemail message from a website I was creating at the time called Ufology Press. Jeffrey, uh, I had a feature called Snake Pipe, which is a voicemail system for websites that you can leave a voicemail on, right? Only way to contact me. 7 years, zip, right? Here's— and I get a voicemail and I listen to it. I recognize Jeffrey's voice. Wow. Before he even says who he is, and my heart starts palpitating, right? And I'm thinking, oh my God, oh my God. And, uh, he says, hey, I just did an interview with Jason Giorgiani on the Grays. I think your audience would be interested in it. Could you please maybe share it. And I did. I wrote an article. I sent him the link to the article and a copy of Stubbing My Toe on Purpose. And 3 days later, I get an email back, hey, would you like to come talk about it?

Wow, that's amazing.

These are kinds of things, and this is all about, you know, the 5 Ps: patience, perseverance, persistence, passion, and purpose. When you can embody that You recognize that some things do take time, right? It took 15 years to have quality time with my son after our divorce because of what my ex-wife was doing. It took 28 years to have this interview with Jeffrey. I didn't obsess about it. I just continued to do the work that was in front of me to do, and the universe finally said, okay, here, right? So it was—

that's amazing. Wow. So is there maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem? Oh, definitely.

In the Morning Day by Journey.

Journey. Yeah, yeah. We started talking about Journey when you were in the other Cinderella Man by Rush.

Yes. Wow. Yeah, I, I, uh, real hard drummer to follow, right? He has been the epitome for me to try to ascend to my level of playing. Yes. Occasionally I can get there, but it's rare when I let go that completely.

Yes, I really think music is truly universal, and it also takes us back to very specific milestone moments in life. It's quite powerful. Okay, I know we have to end the interview, but let me— Oh, parting with such sweet sorrow. So, uh, if you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Hmm, reflecting on how things actually happened and the new world order that I obviously have come to help facilitate, you know, the reflection of acknowledgment that we're there.

Wow, that's powerful. Okay, I think related to that then, if you had a magic wand and you could solve any problem in the world, when you wake up tomorrow morning, what is the one problem you would like to solve?

How we listen.

Hmm, wow, that is, uh, Powerful. Okay, we are getting towards the end of the show. That's where I ask you, thank you so much for your time on the Leadership Success podcast. How can we add value back to you, Sam?

Oh, well, gosh, as a coach, I'm always looking for clients. And as a partnering facilitator, I'm always looking to help, you know, groups ascend to their own level of excellence and capacity. So those are two things. My books, right, um, or another. I really, you know, I can't— you probably can— it's hard to express the, the gratitude that's felt internally when you see someone acknowledge their own success and their own level of being able to do something beyond what they thought they could do.

Wow. All right, Zen. Thank you so much. So everybody, follow Coach Zen, linkedin.com/zenbenfield, very easy. And his website, even easier, bethedream.com. I'm sure there is a story about Being the Dream. Can you share a little bit? Sure.

I started it when I was in the middle of the aerospace industry and trying to get interpersonal skills classes, realizing that the bridge of spiritual and best business practices needed to happen in order for things to feel whole, right? And so I registered Be the Dream as a business, thinking that at some point in the future, both my outer activity and my inner awareness would be bridged through actually being the dream. Yes. And then that's powerful. That happens like Zig Ziglar says, you help enough other people get what they want, you'll get what you want, right? Yeah. It's not about wanting. It's about showing up and being present. And that creates the joy of the abundance in the experience.

That's so powerful. Don't just have a dream, be the dream. I love that. So is there a question I should have asked you then that I haven't asked yet? Anything else you wanted to share?

Been exquisite. Thank you, uh, host Bob. I just— my heart— hats off to you. Thank you.

Well, I think you have a lot to, to teach, so we're going to be landing this plane down in the next 2 minutes. But let me ask you the most important question, I believe, from the podcast. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, what would you say to 17-year-old Bruce then Benfield? Be more confident in your steps. More confident. Powerful. Yeah, that could be life-changing for the people who are listening in. Okay, now to end, it's going to be a lightning round, right? Rapid fire. Don't take too long to think. One word that defines great leadership. Presence. Okay. Morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Say again?

Morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

Oh, um, waking up excited.

Wow, that's beautiful. Book or quote that changed your life?

Hmm, whatever you dream, you can begin it. Boldness has magic, power, and genius in it. Wow, I like that.

Okay, who inspires you the most today? Jesus. And a leadership habit you refuse to compromise on? Love. And, uh, the question every leader should ask frequently? What can I do for you? That's really servant leadership, isn't it? So what did you want to be when you were a kid?

Well, probably a lot of things, you know. That's a good question. You know, as a kid, I have a picture of wearing a Superman outfit. Wow.

I, I guess you are kind of a superhero right now, you know, helping make the world a better place, helping us become planetary citizens, which I think we need.

You know, that experience I had at 18, I always felt different because I had a sense. And we didn't even get into the otherworldly experiences and the, you know, connection with the Galactic Federation that I have, but that's yet to come.

Wow, thank you for sharing. So what are 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Um, curious, tenacious, and fearless. As an adult?

Probably the same. Wow. Curious, tenacious, fearless. I like that. Okay. The very last question, and this is it. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today? Exquisite. Wow. Thank you so much, Coach Zen. I am really, really humbled and privileged to have you on the Leadership Success Podcast. I think you've given us a lot of things to think about. So thank you so much for your time.

And I really appreciate it. One last thing. Okay. That just brought up something else. So in my studies, and when I had my awakening, the first thing that I did is I went to the university library and looked up the term Satan, because there was all this scuttlebutt about, oh, be careful of the, you know, the light, it's Satan disguised and whatever. Okay, or Satan appears as the angel of light. Well, and he is the light bearer. That's what he's called, Lucifer, right? The light bearer. Well, Well, when I looked up in the dictionary, there, the two volumes, right, the A through L and M through Z, the very first reference to the word is Greek, thētan, T-H-E-T-A-N, that means thinker.

Interesting.

So think about this possibility of a fictitious enemy that was created to manage populations.

Wow, man, that's quite insightful. Thanks again for sharing. And we have Daniel Leong, that's the last comment we're going to get from the audience. Seeing this partnership in action is exactly the planetary vision we need. I think I agree. Thank you, Zen and Bizzy, for showing us what coherence looks like. I'm inspired to share a breakdown of our Honor Mode support, this exact mission, on my profile. Incredible episode. All right, thank you. Thanks so much. I am really, really privilege. Thank you so much, Coach Zann, and I appreciate your time on the Leadership and Success Podcast. I love you, man. Thank you. Me too. Wow. All right, everyone, this has been quite an incredible episode. So again, if everybody would please follow the one and only Coach Zann, and you can go on LinkedIn, Zann Benefield, and on his website, bethedream.com. And also don't forget to get a copy of his bestselling book, Planetary Citizen. And I will be updating the digital bookshelf I have for the podcast and include those books so you guys can get a copy. Okay, that's it for today. And now the next interview. So this is the last interview for 2025 and the premier interview we're going to have for 2026 is going to start On Friday, I can't believe it's 2026 already, we're gonna have the one and only, doesn't need to be introduced, 4-star General Gary M. Brito, US Army, recently retired. He's the People's General, 4-star warrior and future-focused. We're gonna be talking about leading the army of tomorrow. You do not want to miss this. And then on that same day, I'm also going to be talking to police officer Dr. Beth Sanborn. She's a DPA, a school safety leader advocate, and scholar practitioner. We're gonna be talking about the missing piece. And then right after her, I will be speaking to, where is she? Terry. We're gonna be talking to Terry Maxwell, business architect, growth catalyst, conscious capitalist. We're gonna be talking about conscious capitalism in action. So that's gonna be pretty interesting. And then I will have the doctor, Dr. Shona Doug Springer, PhD. She's trusted, relentless, and perceptive. We're gonna be talking about mental warfare and moral courage. Relentless Courage. If you remember, I interviewed her co-author, Sergeant Michael Sugrue, and she's written many other books about being a warrior and beyond the military. So, you really don't want to miss it. And then, on the same day again, I will be talking with Dr. Deena Brown, PhD. She's a founder, speaker, executive coach, part of the Maxwell Leadership, like me. We're going to be talking about stillness meets strategy. You really don't want to miss Friday. That's going to be the most— the busiest day of the leadership and Leadership and Success Podcast for Season 5. And then I believe on Sunday, I will be talking with Daya Ramesh, cybersecurity leader, founder, operator, and mentor. We're gonna be talking about cybersecurity is existential. So we have a lot of interviews later for you guys. And thank you again for watching the Leadership and Success Podcast. And I really hope this adds value to you. So the live replay is available immediately on LinkedIn and YouTube, and it should be available on all of the major podcast platforms in a couple of hours or so. And later today, I will be writing an article that's going to summarize what Coach Zen and I talked about. And I think it's really, really urgent. It's very important. It is timely. It's something we need today. Conscious leadership, all of us becoming really planetary citizens. We need more love, not war in this world. Okay. Thank you so much. Happy New Year. And thank you for watching. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire, inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.