S4:E30🎙️ LIVE with Tom Rosenak

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All right, good morning everyone. Thank you so much for joining us this morning, Saturday, July 12th. It's about 7:30 AM here in California. I'm very, very grateful for you being here. Today is a very, very special day and I have a great guest for you. We're gonna be talking about leadership and success with my friend Tom Rosnack. And Tom is the founder of Diamond Enterprises, right? So, today is going to be very special. He also has a book I would like everybody to please purchase. But Tom is redefining potential by helping us uncover and leverage untapped inner resources right here. Right now. So we're going to be sharing about why consistency beats intensity every time and how aligning your inner intention with your action leads to sustainable growth. It's a think big, start small framework for building irresistible momentum and also the importance of harmony between vision and being and doing. So what I'm going to do now is I am going to play a video of Acres of Diamond narrated by Tom, and the voice you're gonna hear right after that is going to be Tom Osnak. Here we go.

This is a story about the power of a story. A preacher named Russell Conwell was approached by some of the young members of his community. They couldn't afford college but wanted to learn, so they asked him to teach them. This started Conwell's mission to create a college for deserving young people who might not be able to afford other schools. He went out and raised several million dollars to create Temple University. How did he do it? By telling the following story more than 6,000 times all over the country. It's a true story.

It affected him deeply, and it had the same effect on his audiences. Maybe it will affect you too.

The story is called Acres of Diamonds. It goes like this: There once was an African farmer who heard tale of another man who made his fortune when he discovered diamonds. The farmer was thrilled. He sold his farm and in excited haste set out to search for diamonds of his own. He spent the rest of his life wandering the continent, searching and searching. Then one day, years later, Penniless and defeated, feeling like a failure, he drowned himself in a river. One day, many years after the man had sold his farm, the other man who had purchased it from him was crossing a small stream on the property when he noticed a brilliant flash of blue and red light glinting on the bottom of the stream. He bent down, picked up the stone, admired it in the sunlight, and decided to bring it home to adorn his mantle. A few weeks later, a friend visited the farmer. He noticed the stone on the mantle and nearly fainted. "Do you know what you have here?" inquired his friend. "No," said the farmer. "I thought it was a pretty crystal." It was one of the largest diamonds ever discovered. And so the original farmer had given up everything for diamonds when he had acres of them beneath his feet all along. He simply needed to recognize diamonds in the rough, the acres of diamonds he already had. In order to make his wildest dreams come true. That story did for Dr. Conwell what it teaches all of us. It empowered him to mine the diamonds in himself, to discover his new capacity to create a new place, one that would mine the diamonds of students for years and years to come, all by sharing the story with different audiences and passing on the gift of this simple idea. Each of us right now stands in our own Acres of Diamonds. Welcome to where diamonds meet.

All right, with no further ado, let me bring in Tom Rusnak. How are you doing this morning, Tom?

Real good, thanks for having me, Bizzy.

Absolutely. Actually, this Acres of Diamonds is a great, great story. There is so much to unpack out of that. Maybe that's where we need to get started. I know you use it as part of your coaching, mentoring, and what you do as a consultant. But can you tell us more about how this story affected you and how you've been able to use it to help all of your clients?

Yeah. So, the quickest answer, but it can be deep, is we have to start right where we are with what we have. And there's always something we can do. Right where we are with what we have about what we care about. And so we have a tendency, and this is the universal we, we, but in our culture it's worse than ever, is to scurry about seeking greener pastures when we haven't started within. Scripture says the kingdom of heaven is within. It's a good place to start and to tell the truth about our dreams, our fears, our frustrations, And that's part of the mining, because the diamonds often look like dirty— they've got coal from centuries over them. There's just a glint. So we need to do some mining, refining, and then express what we find in the world, which is where influence and leadership comes in. But self-awareness is the starting point.

Wow, that is quite amazing. Self- awareness. I guess when we're in the green room, we talked a little bit about Earl Nightingale and Conant, his partner, and all of the great work they did to really make it— I guess they really made self-development, I guess, very popular here in the US and around the world. And I know Earl Nightingale talked about this Acre of Diamond story as well.

That's where I heard about it. I heard about it from late great Earl Nightingale, and it stopped me in my track. And I listened to that episode over and over again because the idea is simple. But what we do with ideas often is we have them as cognitive units. You know, you could pass a test on leadership, or you could— and that's well and good, but until it starts to move you to change you're being and doing, it's just information.

That is so true. One of my mentors, Tiavo Aker, said that a lot, right? You don't know anything until you actually do it. Because just knowing it intellectually doesn't mean squat. It's actually when you do it that you prove that you actually mastered it.

Yeah, it's experiential.

Yes.

And the information helps. But here's what I like to say. Information without formation does not lead to transformation.

Wow, I love that. Say that again.

Information. So we say we live in the information age. Well, a 7-year-old has more information at her fingertips than Socrates ever had. And information is good, but information without formation does not lead to transformation. So what do we mean by that? Formation is building character. And because you're a military man, you'll understand this. Is discipline comes from the same root as disciple, and it just is building the character. So if you say to the child, you really shouldn't do that, and the child says, I know. Well, why do you do it? I don't know. Well, you really should stop doing it. I know. And you have this endless loop. They don't need new information. The information is good. Mama told me not to do it. She told me to do this. In my case, it was do your homework, and I never learned to do it. And we can talk about that if we come back to it. So it starts with me is what is the intention behind this word success?

I love that. Please.

In my childhood, both my parents were lawyers, God love them. But to them, success was laid out a certain way. And I didn't know about learning styles or all of that. I confess to this audience, I didn't know learning was fun until I was 28 years old. And now there's nothing I'd rather do. Because it felt like something you had to do. You got to get an education. And they weren't wrong, but I didn't— it didn't set in. So there was no formation.

Wow.

And then I discovered one little book, which is How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie. And back then, the bookstores were small, and the self-help— I hate that term— but anyway, the self-help section was small, and there was that book. And that was the first time in my life I realized that I had to be part of my own education. That sounds so bizarre now. I didn't know that in high school. I thought it was something you had to do 'cause your mama told you to do it and you had to go to college. And it wasn't wrong, but I wasn't in the process.

Wow, that is amazing. I know Dale Carnegie, one of his most popular book, "How to Win Friends, Right, and Influence People." I've read that a couple of times. I'm gonna make sure to also get the one you just mentioned.

Yeah, "How to Stop Worrying." and start living. And worry— you probably heard this, I think this is Sandler, but it's one of my favorite quotes, and if it's not Sandler, I apologize to whoever it was— and that is, worry is interest paid in advance on borrowed trouble.

Wow, that is— you see, all of these things, it's really simple. I don't think simplistic, but simple and so effective. But people just do not put it into practice. I guess they need to be reminded. I don't know what the deal is. But everyone, that's the book, How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie. Definitely one everybody should—

It's a tremendous book. And how it changed my life was not the content of the book itself, which is good. So I take your recommendation. Is it started me thinking, what is my role in my own misery.

Wow.

That was something I never asked before. I thought it was because my parents were strict or because school teachers were— the problem was always out there, just like Acres of Diamonds. That's the negative version of it. And the problem— Wayne Dyer once said, if you think other people are your problem, you have to wait till they all go to psychiatrists before you get any better.

And they're probably not.

Wow.

Wow, man, so many gems already. Thank you, thanks so much, Tom. Okay, let's kind of go back to the beginning. You, uh, can you share the story behind why you founded Diamond Mind Enterprises and what inspired you?

Well, so I came across that story probably in 1990, I don't know exactly, and I had a job opportunity that required group presentations. And I was scared witless. I said, I'm okay one-to-one, but I can't speak in front of a group. And I couldn't afford a Dale Carnegie course at the time. And I had 3 small children in the '90s, and I just couldn't— it was just too much to bear. And I discovered a course called the Christopher Leadership Course, a not-for-profit that was affordable, and it used the Dale Carnegie method, only it was spiritually based, and they confined it. They didn't market to businesses. That was the agreement they had way back in the 1950s with Dale Carnegie himself and the Dale Carnegie organization. So without going too far into that story, what I discovered is not only could I have the confidence to speak in front of groups, but that I could teach others to speak in front of groups. And so the Acres of Diamonds story was there, but I had no company. I just want— I just wondered, wonder if you could make a living teaching others these skills. And so I had joined a consultancy, and we taught in the persuasive arts of sales, presentation, negotiation, influence without formal authority. Uh, Zarin Friedman is the name of the company. They're still existent today. And they taught me how to have training as a professional. But I started wanting to do some things differently, and I didn't want to change how they did things. So I started a little side coaching business in 2009 called Diamond Mine Enterprises. And the name of the company is just to remind myself of this core belief. That it's about becoming more resourceful. And the first resources we're wasting are our own resources. And there's no such thing as time management.

We—

there, you get 168 hours each week. You can't change that. There's priority management, there's focus management, there's energy management, there's conflict management. So there's a lot. Management means manos, which is to handle.. And so if we handle these things better, we free up focus for what matters most. But most people are, quote, busy and don't have time to think about what matters most. So there go the resources. Wow. So that's, that's really how it started. It started as a side business, and then I made a decision to switch focus and have it be my business, and then just to do contract work. I still teach their classes. I haven't in a while, but I'm available if they need me. Like doing it, but I just don't want to do the same thing over and over again. So that's—

wow, that is awesome. Something you said, right? Influence without authority. And I've had this question asked many, many times because even though quite a few senior executive leaders are part of my network on LinkedIn, but my focus really for this podcast and My daily leadership devotion is really for people who aspire to lead, especially in the military and in high technology. And many, many times, I guess reminds me of myself 20, 24 years ago, you feel like I am not a leader because I don't have a title. I am not a manager. I'm not a supervisor. I'm not a director. I'm not a vice president. So, I really don't feel like I lead. Tell us more about Influence Without Title.

Yeah, delighted to. So, a couple of things, as you said a lot there, BZ, and let's unpack it. Always start with the definition. So there is a thing called positional leader, and that means I am the CFO, so I have positional authority over the finance team. And, and that's important. But if you define leadership as— the word to lead means to go before. So we go before either in vision first or by example. You say, well, how would I like other people in my company to behave? And even if you're a very low-level person with no, quote, leadership authority, you can say, well, I should model that. And so you go before others and you start to show people how a leader shows up in, in your, in your existing position. If we will lead before we have the formal position, we will expand our influence and it might lead to the formal position. But if we wait, it may never happen. And you hear people say, "They never promote me." It's as if they have control. So when you define leadership as to go before, something becomes obvious. And that is, You only have 168 hours. And I'm in favor, and you probably have them as guests, I love the productivity leaders. But no matter how good you get with getting things done or any of the systems out there, the most you're going to increase is 10%. So, if you want, which is valuable, I mean, that's huge. But if you want to increase your value 100-fold, You must gain the cooperation of other people because you have 168 hours. Could you do twice as much? Well, it's not sustainable. Could you do 10% more? Yeah, but you must gain the cooperation of other people. Then you're faced with a challenge, which is you can do it through force or manipulation, or you can learn what they want position value against what they care about and lead them to wanting to be more, to do more in coordination with you.

Influence.

Yes.

Now they want to follow your ideal. It might not even be you, your ideal. And Earl Nightingale defines success as a progressive realization of a worthy deal. So my partner and I, Adrian Guerrero, Leadership Beyond, and that's another thing you can recognize. We came together in COVID and it started as a Leadership Beyond pandemic. And now it is a Leadership Beyond. But the core idea is that two people joining to a value with very different styles but similar values can reach places that Tom Rosenak or Adrian Guerrera or Diamond Mine Enterprises or Ponsse Delta could never reach. And so whatever you want to do, think, who can you go with?

Wow.

Give me that quote again by Earl Nightingale.

Success, progressive realization of a worthy ideal. And the word success is from the Norse, which means succession. Step after step after step. And so it's about where are we going and what's the next step, and then what gets in our way and how can we dissolve the obstacles. And that's what lead— leadership is. It comes from the vision and then building bridges between 100,000 feet and the messy runway. And the runway is messy no matter who you are. Because you're thinking big in a world of gravity, friction, mortality, aging, and all of the other, uh, sin and death and all of that. And that's what we have to do. We have to build our masterpiece in that environment. And if we wait for the world to perfect, then we're going to live in the world of regret.

That, that is so poignant. So back to the book you, you wrote, right? Diamond Mind, your momentum Playbook. Talking about building momentum, why do people struggle more with consistency than intensity, you think?

Well, I would like to, if you're open to it, reframe the question. When you ask the question, why do we struggle with something, what kind of answer do you get? Is it a resourceful answer? Just, just to answer that question, let me throw it back to you. Why do we struggle with that? Tell us why.

Yeah, I guess it might not be getting at the core of the issue.

The answer you get is what? If you say, why does this keep happening to me? What kind of answers do you get? Are they resourceful or are they dead end?

Dead end.

So I get an answer, well, I don't know, Tom, your mother was right about you. You'll never amount to something. Every question we answer gets like answers. Simon Sinek said, start with why. He is correct, but he's talking about why around your purpose. But in this case, you're talking about why around your problem. And if you say, why do I have this problem? You're going to come up with something like, I'm not smart enough. I'm not good enough. I came from the wrong family. I'm in the wrong political party. I'm the wrong gender. I'm the wrong— and it doesn't bring us anywhere. Since we're talking about leadership, It means to go before. Well, where do you want to go? So now let me reframe the question. I notice this keeps recurring as an upset. How can I create a new pattern so that this doesn't recur as an upset? And then you get resourceful answers, and then you break it down to what's the smallest step I can take. And that's where you quoted in the introduction. Which is a key, uh, mantra, is start before you're ready. Meaning, I have a big vision, I can't accomplish this vision this weekend, and what can I do right where I am? And you will always get answers, and it's usually talk to someone. It's usually outside of yourself but within yourself. Who can I talk to? What's one little step I can take? And so that gets the foot off the brake. And then it's irresistible momentum over time. But we're waiting for momentum to happen.

Hmm, that is quite insightful. So what is your practical tip then from your Momentum Playbook that someone can apply immediately to create momentum?

Yes, I can tell you the starting place. There are 4 dimensions, but they're not steps because when you think of steps, you go 1, 2, 3, 4, and then you're done. And then you're done. So they, they're interrelated dimensions, but the first dimension is always most important, which is connect. And this is where the why question is good, like, is connect to your core intention. So if it's a momentum in a project, it's different than momentum in life, but you always start with life intention and then you align the various intentions along with it. So where— so your question, let me be concise and not as wordy, and just to say that it is take a moment, step back from the runway, and ask yourself, what is my intention? And then when that gets clear, connect to the energy of that intention. Which propels you forward, and then you invest that energy in the small steps. So, Coach BZ, if you were to see my plan for next week and someone else's plan, they may look the same functionally, but if I'm approaching it from the energy of the high intention and a more purposeful, they'll be qualitatively different which will translate into quantitatively different over time. But in the first week, you won't see any difference, but you'll feel the difference, and then you'll express that difference in the activities, and then you'll take the foot off the brake.

That is quite amazing. Now, one thing you also emphasize in your book is that think big but start small. Could you share a powerful real-world example where this approach led to lasting change?

Uh, absolutely. So thinking big, I, I would go to the most powerful change in my life, which is getting sober in 1980. Uh, and so thinking big started with negative— I don't want to drink anymore— and then it became positive— I would have better relationships. And I've now been married 40-something years. And I remember I had a sponsor I'll never forget this, and it was before I knew about Momentum Process, but it was the Momentum Process. And that was, I was at Marquette University. I wanted to change the world. I wanted all these things, but I couldn't even get to class. You know, I was hungover. And when I decided to get sober, I wanted this great big plan. And I remember now what he said to me, and I laughed because I call him a crusty old Irishman, but he's probably He was probably 40, and you know, when you're 20, they seem old when they're 40. Uh, significantly less than me. But here's the example. He said, can you get to a meeting today? And that didn't seem big enough for me. Then he said, can you do 90 meetings in 90 days? And that seemed too big for me. He said, don't worry about meetings, worry about today, then worry about the next day meeting. And then I learned the definition you said earlier about how simple these things are. Here's a simple one for you. He said, adopt the camel philosophy. I said, what the F is the camel philosophy? And back then I used that kind of language. I don't anymore. What the F is that? And he said, a camel begins and ends each day on his knees and can go 24 hours without a drink. Wow. And that was all the philosophy I needed. And then when I started thinking, well, what kind of job do I have? What— but I had the cloud of alcohol off me just for a day, and then it became 40-plus years. So before I knew about keeping momentum, I learned about momentum through changing the most negative pattern into my— of my life. Into everything I have today wouldn't have happened, uh, had I not gotten sober. So we have to start small, and whatever you dream is too big for you, because we don't want to hang out with people whose dreams fit in the box they currently have, right? What kind of dream is that? But the thing that leads to failure is we don't take the small steps.

Wow, that is pretty amazing. And by the way, I am also checking the LinkedIn Live comments. Ambassador Ruby, what's her last name, Criticius, just gave you a thumbs up for Acres of Diamonds. So she was touched by the—

Well, thank you. So let me know if there's questions. I'm not monitoring. I can see, but I'm so focused in this conversation.

Yes, I am too. Since I'm here by myself, I'm making sure I don't miss any questions.

Okay, let me know. Interrupt me anytime.

Absolutely. So especially thinking about our live audience right now, one question I would like to ask you before we go into the 7 questions I ask every single guest on this podcast is, what is one powerful question our audience member can ask themselves, you believe, to clarify their own untapped potential and take immediate action?

Would you like the biggest question or a smaller question? Because one of the things I do as coaching is to find out the right questions to meet them where they are. The biggest question is, why are you on the planet?

Hmm.

Why in the world is Coach BZ there? But that might be too big to start. So I think we would start with negative thinking. And negative thinking— everybody wants to start with positive thinking. I don't want to start with positive thinking. So negative thinking says, what's not working in my life? And not why isn't it working, just what is it? Then you say, what would working better look like? So for example, I'm too fat. Okay, well, you know, what's not working? What comes to mind immediately is what I put in my mouth and my movement. And then what keeps recurring as an upset? This is the question I ask managers that consistently gets us to what we're really working on. In business, in life, no matter how successful you are, how bright you are, how talented you are, you will have upsets. But it's the recurring upsets that are gold for personal transformation, because it's recurring. In my case, it was not completing classes. If it keeps recurring, then you can say, what can I change? Yes, what's within my control? And you can start living the Serenity Prayer. So the negative thinking is admitting because positive thinking devolves into pretend. And, and I loved Zig Ziglar, but I learned that it wasn't effective. So you just smile and you say everything's positive. Well, that's why if you look in the mirror and you read Think and Grow Rich and you look in the mirror and say, I'm abundant, I'm abundant, and the mirror looks back and say, no, you're not, you're dead broke, then you have an argument. And the teacher told me to write 100 times, I will not disrupt class. I will not disrupt class wasn't very effective. So we look at negative patterns from the lens of appreciative inquiry, which I put one of the books that I recommended changed my life forever for the better was Jackie and Sherry, Conversations Worth Having. And they talk about generative questions and positive framing. So it isn't positive thinking, it's positive framing. And so you take all this bucket of negativity and you see it through the lens of a positive frame, and you appreciate how much is working, but you don't deny that something isn't working. Which is why I, I, with my clients, I process the negative, and that's in the book. We don't deny it. We process it. And processing is holding love, which is what we want, conscious, active, and present when anything else surfaces. And it's going to surface regularly.

Wow.

That is quite powerful. Again, simple but powerful, especially when you put it into action. Could literally be life-changing. Wow. So you mentioned the Serenity Prayer, right? Which I believe is, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to do the difference. Wow.

And so how do we make it practical in our momentum is always start with self-awareness. Because we think things are out of our control that aren't. Wisdom is important so that what wisdom means is learning to discern. The difference. And then courage is having— it's not the absence of fear, it is having the heart to face the fear and do what I can do. So this is— I'm looking at my tile, not yours. My first inclination, even after teaching this all these years, is to make a list of all the things I can't do and all the reasons I can't do them. That's where why is a negatively applied question. Why can't I do it? Not smart enough, not good enough. We don't have to recover that. And then I put it off. But if I say, am I called to do this? And if the answer is yes, then I say, how can I begin to move in this direction? And when we do this, we get the clues. We don't end up necessarily where we thought we would, but we get out of the room and out into the corridor.

Wow, that is so powerful. Talking about self-awareness, yesterday on my podcast, I talked about the underestimated advantage of emotional intelligence in the military and high tech. I guess, you know, in my opinion, self-awareness is really the beginning of emotional intelligence. How important do you think that is for people who aspire to be leaders or just to have a greater level of success to really develop that self-awareness?

Awareness? Essential. If we're talking about positional leadership, maybe not. There's many CEOs that aren't very aware. If we're talking about compelling leaders, they have humility, which humility is misunderstood. Humility is correct evaluation of self. And so what does that mean? Well, that's where the self-awareness comes in, that you are one at the time. A child of God, unique, infinite in your value. That's true about you. But you're also carbon, water, dirt, mortal. And so sometimes people think humility is self-deprecation.

That's fake.

That's fake. It is elevating your worth and under— underthinking your importance, like, like it's not all about you kind of thinking. You're important in terms of value as a human being, but you're not so important in terms of, you know, yes, the ego thinks, if you get the distinction.

Yes. Wow.

And so, self-awareness, it's vitally important because if you're not self-evaluating regularly, you're not going to recognize the impact you have on others, both positively and negatively.

Wow, that is so powerful. Okay, so we are about to get into the second phase of the podcast where I ask you the 7 questions I ask every leader on this podcast. But before I do, is there something you would like to share?

No, go ahead.

This is—

I'm loving the way this is unfolding. Things keep coming to mind, but I'm ADHD and I don't want to wrap it all.

And when they do, I make sure to take notes just to make sure I don't forget. Okay. The very first segment, I kind of asked about the greatest lessons you have learned so far, or what do you believe is the secret of your success?

Faith. Faith in God and in others.

Wow, that's powerful. Faith is so powerful. There is so much that has happened in the world as far as innovation and transformation. That seemed impossible, right? I think Nelson Mandela is the one who said, "This seems impossible until it is done." And every single time those people, those transformational leaders, they always add that in their mind, they really believe that they could do it or they believe in the potential of other human beings working together to achieve it.

So, faith has a cousin, which is hope. I have a lot of failure in my life. And I always have hope that that failure will be transformed. And I can look in the past and see how it's been done, but in the present you can't see that. That's why it's faith. This— I made a mistake, this sucks, and it— tell the truth about it. But then the hope says this can be transformed into better. And so it keeps you looking forward, believing that God causes good to come out of even our most boneheaded decisions. But it's not making excuses. It's not saying it wasn't wrong. It's just saying God can do something with this, whatever it is. And if you lose that hope, then this becomes too big. Yeah, and then we become too small, and then we're resigned to our fate, and that fate is pretty low.

That is quite Amazing. Actually, my full name is Bob Fabien Minou Zinga. Minou is a Lari term. Almost nobody calls me by that, but when I was a kid, everybody called me Minou. And what it means in English or in French is faith, hope. So many times, we all go through very, very difficult times in life. Life isn't easy. But every time I go through a challenging time, I always remember what is your name? Who are you? And Minoo comes back, faith, hope. So I know, I may not know how or when or how it's gonna all gonna work out.

But there's a third one to that, which might not be in the name, and faith, hope, and love.

Yes.

And so love is loving the other as other. And love is always sacrificial, meaning that when you get up at 4 AM with a child that has the flu, you're not experiencing the emotion called love, you're not feeling when you're in the playground with an ice cream cone and smiles, then you get the emotion. But love says that this is so important that I'm willing to get up at 4 o'clock in the morning. You don't suddenly say, oh, I can't wait to get up at 4 o'clock in the morning, my daughter has flu. And so, so love that is non-sentimental is doing the best for whoever you care about, whether you feel like or not. And faith and hope are really about love. So I love that you're taking your name— what's in a name? Only anything. Everything.

That is quite, quite powerful because especially now, we are in the 21st century. I guess we are now living in the age of AI in 2025. There's so much changing and so many things that used to be, I guess, foundation people really had huge trust on today, they seem to crumble all around us. But things that we are talking about right now, they seem to be universal, everlasting principles that do not change, whether in 2025 or 2,000 years ago, those principles, they still kind of work. Like they are consistent and they are universal in their, I guess, in their implementation and whatever result you get, whether you live in the US or in Africa where I was born. Or in Europe. It doesn't matter. They— it kind of cuts through the, uh, and all of that because they're true.

Wow, they're true. And because they're true, we have lasting scriptures in 6, 7, 8, even more cultures. And the reason they don't become outdated is because the truth resonates. We haven't changed as much as we think. The way we approach the world has changed. Nobody would recognize it. But when I read the stories in scripture, yes, see myself, I see my nasty relatives, I see all the players, and they got different faces and different bodies. And yes, they're using email and Facebook and all that, but we haven't changed as much. And so you're on to something. In your name is an eternal truth that you can plug into whenever you need to. I am about hope and faith, and I say you can't say those two words without love, because where do those— what are you hoping for?

Yes.

You know, when you say an order of hope, when I say I hope the Cubs win the World Series, then that's wishful thinking, and that's okay because we know what we mean. When you say I love ice cream, perfectly appropriate, we know what we mean. But there's an order of love. It's not the same thing as when I say I love my, uh, my life, the only thing, my wife, the only thing I'm willing to sacrifice for the for the ice cream cone is my waistline. So faith is, what are you having faith in? And then hope is, are you moving in that direction? Now we're based on that definition of success, progressive realization. And by the way, progress is not a straight line. So it is progressive realization, but we love it to be like this. And what planet are you living on? It's like this. But over time, we look back and we say, I really have changed, which is why incremental change or kaizen is so key to personal development.

Wow, you said kaizen, that's from the Japanese philosophy, right?

Yes, yes. And it's just the idea of continuous small improvement, but it's also coming from the big vision, so it's consistent with momentum. We don't just improve to improve, We have— you, you talked about the good and the perfect. We need to have a vision of the perfect.

Yes, you've probably heard—

it's kind of cheesy, but apparently Michelangelo— and I don't think it ever really happened— was asked about the Statue of David, and what he said was, I kept chipping away everything from the marble that was not David. And so it's a wonderful analogy. I doubt that it ever was a real conversation, but it helps us to see that when you have a vision, your vision can be perfect. But the reason people never get started is the first time you try to do something— you know, Ted Williams had a vision of being the best baseball player that ever lived before he could hit a ball. And so he had to go through strikeouts and all of that stuff. So we want the vision to be perfect, but we have to realize that when we're, when we're expressing that vision, we're going to be clumsy. If you look at great athletes or great musicians, it looks effortless.

Wow.

And what looks effortless because they've practiced. And here's one for your quotes: leadership is practice.

Yes.

If it were just an idea, we could go to HBR, and I'm in favor of doing it, Harvard Business Review, and you can in a day get all the great ideas of leadership, and you can get John Maxwell's too since I know you're connected And anybody has access to that before this day ends, they can have it all.

But then when they—

your life in 30 days, if you don't have a practice, and that practice is going to have to start small because you're going to get inspired by some of the greatest leaders in history, you know, and you're going to say, well, I can do that. Yeah, you can, but not today because you have 30 years of practice on you. Take their idea and practice in your own way.

Think big, start small. I really love it. And you reminded me of another book by my mentor, Darren Hardy, The Compound Effect, where he really talks about taking very, very small steps.

Same principle.

Yes. Huge, huge result. Wow. Okay. Okay. I could be talking with you all day and all night. So we have about what? Oh man, my goodness. Only 10 minutes left? Are you kidding me?

You got 6 questions to get through. And I'm going to give you the shortest answer. And if anyone wants to reach out to me at tom@rosenak.com, I will expound. But these are going to be 90-second answers so that, uh, no, this is, this is the box that he got.

And again, I want everybody to please follow Tom, right, on LinkedIn. Tom Rosenak, uh, definitely make, make sure to do that. So what, what is the greatest leadership advice you've ever received? Oh, one of the greatest.

The greatest leadership advice turned into a warm-up, but it came from Helen Keller, and it goes like this: I am only one, but I am one. I can't do everything, but I can do something, and what I can do, I will Wow, that is powerful.

That is powerful. Okay, segment 2. Uh, what are you learning now? I know leaders are learners. What are you learning these days?

I am learning to take space to reflect who I am before I race into the world of make it, pack it, and ship it. And I say learning because I already know it and I forget it, but only every day.

Wow, that is powerful.

Okay, more responsive and not reactive. And man, it's hard for me. I'm not doing well, but I'm working on it.

I'm practicing, practicing daily effort. That is, that is powerful. So, uh, first, uh, segment, uh, most of the time when we look at leaders like you, we always look at your successes, the businesses, and all of the great things you have accomplished.. But the truth is, you have to go through failure to get to where you are. And most people don't know anything about failure. So how has failure shaped your life?

Failure is what got me into the hope of personal, spiritual, and professional development. It's because I didn't know how to speak in front of a group that I took a course. It's because I didn't know how to do my homework that I shifted what learning really was. So failure is the number one irritant that keeps me moving towards success. I have more failure than I have success, but I'm on the journey because I redefine success.

That is powerful. Okay, fourth segment, uh, who are thought leaders that we should follow? Who, uh, do you listen to?

Yeah, so when you ask that question, I went to ones, not the ones that people are more familiar with, because I have a podcast and I've gotten to know. And I, I would suggest Courage of a Leader podcast. I did put Krista Tippett, who is known, uh, because, yeah, Amy Riley is great because she's always practical But she and her guests are phenomenal, and she's been a guest on my podcast. I've been a guest on hers, but this is a wonderful podcast.

And she has a book of the same title as well, right?

Yes, the podcast came out of the book. She has a framework, but very practical and very successful by our definition today of success.

Wow. And you also mentioned Anne Latham.

Yes. And I mentioned her. She's got two— she has many books, but two I recommend. One is The Disconnect Principle, and the other is The Power of Clarity. And she will help you think differently very quickly. And the story I love that she tells is she was already doing good work, but she didn't really know what her secret sauce is, like you asked. And so she kept asking people, you know, you keep on coming to me, so I must be giving you value. But she didn't know what she did. And somebody said— and I hope I get this quote right, but the gist is right— she said, oh, he said, oh, you always bring me from confusion to clarity. So that became her whole thing. She was already doing it, but it wasn't an aware raison d'être. It was just she knew how to do it. And so what I find from reading her and listening to her is how muddled my thinking is without a framework. And she gave me that.

Ah, that is powerful. So if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, who would you choose and why? They could be alive, dead, or even mythical figures.

Well, the, the easiest one is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mm-hmm.

And Saint Francis comes to mind.

Of Assisi, yes.

And Thomas Aquinas.

Fantastic, fantastic. Okay, fifth segment: what are you reading right now, or which books would you recommend to the audience?

I'm reading— what's interesting, you added to my reading that— if you could show that book on Acres of Diamonds, because I like other— yeah, so that's on my to-read list. And on my current reading list is, uh, reading about the moral implications of AI, which is trying to understand how to ask Aristotelian questions to something that's threatening our, our moral compass like nothing ever has before. And my, my brain is slipping the name of the author that I'm currently reading. But I want— but there's a couple on the list. But there's one I'm reading now that's just taken the lid off my thinking. And I'll send it to you.

Justin, yes, if you can add it to the comment for this, the event for this podcast, that would be fantastic. That's exactly the kind of things I want to have.

It's— I want to hear— I'll just say this real quickly. Somebody who knows how to do ethics and look at technology, because it's here whether we like it or not, through that lens. There's a lot of people pontificating on the subject, but they haven't learned how to do ethics. I'm noticing that in the political realm too. There's bumper sticker kinds of conversations that people don't know how to do philosophy. And philosophy is highly practical because Aristotle said it's about living the good life. Well, we got to define the good life first. And if the good life is just having more, then—

then what's the point?

Use AI, I can get more and more quickly. But what is more? So that's my current thought process is how do we adapt to this new world? Without losing our soul.

That is quite timely. Now, for the podcast, you already mentioned The Courage of a Leader podcast. Any other podcast you would recommend?

Yes, Krista Tippett in that. And, and so this, unlike the others which are people they wouldn't be familiar with, I was listening to her before there were podcasts on National Public Radio. But what I want you to— she has great guests, but I want you to pay attention to is the way she leads conversation. And, and you've heard the definition, Bizzy, of insanity, right?

Yeah, doing the same thing over and over again expecting different result.

Let's riff off of that. Insanity is having the same conversation repeatedly with our spouse, with our boss, with our coworker, with our children, with our enemies, and expecting different results. And so then what she teaches us is how to have new conversations. She has such fresh conversations. I would only— I'm going to add her to my— I don't know, I'm not allowed to do it. I had all the saints, but Krista Tippett, come to dinner with me. You've influenced me so greatly.

I'm having such a great time, and I know you only promised me one, one hour, which we have a couple minutes. Thank you. Thanks so much. This is, this is so enriching. I think, uh, our audience, especially the aspiring tech and military leaders, are going to get a out of this. So what about, um, movies? Any movies you would recommend?

Gran Torino, uh, with the great Clint Eastwood. And there's a lot, but I'm gonna have, have that be the one just because that it is a story that is about self-sacrifice. And you would appreciate it because he was a military man dealing with terminal illness in a city with gangs and all of that, and he sacrifices himself for a young, uh, minority that would have no hope otherwise in a world where you either join the gang and go to prison or get shot. And, uh, with his last breaths he, um, he saved. So it's really a Christ-like story, and I cry every time I see it.

Wow.

Okay, I will definitely look at it. I'm sure.

And it's funny and it's crude, and it's, uh, but, but it's— the message is wonderful, um, very much about giving the breath he has left for this young man.

Okay, so, uh, ano vos lenden? What is a song, book, or movie that would be your life's theme or an anthem?

Oh gosh, a song, book, or movie that would be my life's emblem. Things are flashing through my head. Let me see what comes up first. Song, book, or movie? I don't think it's been written yet. I don't think it's been written yet. I have a lot of songs that resonate and books that resonate.

I don't think it's Actually, let me get something from my library. Just give me one quick second. When you mentioned that, I went back to my mentor's book, The Greatest Story Ever Told. John Maxwell, number one New York Times bestselling author, he wrote this book. You know what's in it? Yeah, it's completely empty. So this is the book I am going to write. It's going to be the greatest story ever told. It hasn't been told yet. So when you said that, that's what came.

Well, you know, I'm going to let the listeners go behind the curtain. I had all kinds of things that I could have said that would have sounded great, but when I closed my eyes, they didn't really— they weren't really the one. And so I had to be honest and say, in the moment, I could give an answer that might satisfy, but it's not really. So I said, the one that hasn't been written, which opened up— we're a blank page, and I'm a bullet journaler. And, uh, so we're running our lives every day. But the one that keeps coming up for me for this podcast is leadership as a practice. Write it before someone else does.

Yes, that is, that is, that is a project.

You know, everything is a process. So then spiritual development, personal development, uh, there is a beginning but the end isn't there. It's a process. And let's be open to newness in the process. So the songs spur me on. But they don't take you there.

That is quite powerful. So for the audience, especially the aspiring military and tech leaders, many times what happens, we go through imposter syndrome and we feel like we are not enough, not adequate, we don't have much to offer. But the truth is, from what you say, the greatest story to be told hasn't been told yet. It is your story. You have something to give. There is a reason why you were born. I guess you asked that that big question, right? I guess existential question. Why in the world are you on Earth? And I think there is a reason and you have something to offer. But in time, it will be revealed to you, I believe. This is great.

I would say that you have a mission. And no one else can do your mission. It's a part of a bigger mission. And everyone does their part. But for 4,000 years that we know of, and a few that we don't, is Earl Nightingale said this— let's leave it with the quote— most people tiptoe through life hoping to make it to death safely. And so we don't think about our mission, we don't work on our mission, because either it seems too small or it seems too impossible. And both of those are opposite end of the same paralyzing dynamic. I can't, I have to, I want to, but I don't want to. And so what we're saying is identify it and express it in the smallest way possible and trust that it will impact the world.

Wow.

At least this section, your Acres of Diamonds.

Yes.

And someone else might not know about it. You might not be famous like John Maxwell, but if you can lead one person to a better life, that's a good mission because that one person wandering in circles till they met you.

That is powerful. So along those lines then, uh, if you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Be?

I would like to, uh, echo Paul, which is to say, I've run the good race, and it includes all of the junk, but it transcends it. And, um, you know, just to say, thy will be done.

Wow, that is powerful. That is powerful. I think as a nation, we need to spend more time reflecting instead of just reacting all the time. One thing I started doing after maybe the end of this year is to stop listening to the news because it kept driving me crazy. Every day there was something happening that was just bonkers. But it's like we get so distracted I guess, charged. And, uh, uh, it brings you back to the Serenity Prayer, doesn't it? Yes, yes.

You're listening to the news and you can't do anything about most of it, and it numbs you to what you can do. Here's a recommendation I have, and I'm going to admit a failure, but if enough people are willing to do it, in Lent I tried to do a digital fast. And what that was is it didn't mean don't check email or don't use any electronics. But it meant YouTube videos, even inspiring ones, and less connecting electronically and more quiet time. And I'm telling you, I was restless.

Wow.

I was, uh, really, really restless.

That is, that is quite, uh, powerful, having time to reflect and focus on your mission, your purpose. Okay. We are almost toward the end. Uh, the 7th segment was, uh, you've added so much value to us, to my audience. How can we add value back to you?

I would be thrilled to have a conversation with anybody in the audience and, uh, about where they are, where they're going, what their challenges are, uh, and, uh Adrian and I call a leadership beyond a community of conversation. Many times it can happen asynchronously, which is where I could take a slice from this podcast and put it out to our network and ask people to engage with it.

Wow.

To be connected to these ideas in your own special way, And if you get moved by the spirit, connect with me.

That is, that is wonderful. And again, everyone, I highly recommend that you follow Tom. So LinkedIn, Tom-Rosnaght, very easy to remember. Okay, now we are coming at the very, very end. Thank you so much for giving us an extra 10 minutes. I really do appreciate that. What is the most rewarding aspect of your life experience so far?

Parenting.

Yes. Okay. This one really, really quick.

We've grown children and now we have grandchildren. So that's the most rewarding.

Yeah. I guess I'm going to be going in the stage of grandchildren pretty soon. My oldest one just earned her bachelor last year and she has a boyfriend now. Hopefully things are going to go in the right direction, but we will see. But yeah, I can't believe I am— I mean, time is of the essence, I guess. Time really flies by really, really quickly.

It does. When you're grown up like your daughter, it's like, yeah, like you couldn't believe it. I felt like I was going to be carting around diapers forever, you know, those 3, whatever it was. And now it's like, boop, this is the place.

It is amazing. It is amazing. So, uh, very, very quickly, don't take too much time to think. 3 adjectives that describes you as a child.

Rebellious. Energetic and scattered.

Okay. As an adult?

As an adult, hopeful, optimistic, and willing.

Wow, quite different. Okay. And now at the very, very end, the last thing I'm going to ask is, what is one word that represents our shared experience today on this podcast? Which word comes to mind?

Joyful.

Thank you. Mine would be momentum. So thanks again, Tom. Do you have any last word before we—

No, I appreciate your investing time and space for this conversation, and keep up the good work. And if I can support you in any way, reach out.

Great. Thank you. Thank you so much. I am so grateful you were here with us. So much knowledge. And again, everyone, make sure to follow Tom on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn.com/tom.rosnack. What a podcast this has been. So I'm going to be back here again tomorrow at 6:30 like I usually do. And tomorrow, I think what I'm going to do instead of having my own podcast, Tom, it's going to be pretty fun. You don't have to be here, but this podcast was about 1 hour. An hour and 7 minutes. So I'm going to have my AI agent summarize it to 10 minutes only. So this is for the busy people. So it's just going to be a 10-minute podcast, a summary of everything we've talked about. First, I'm going to write the article about today's podcast, which should be published in the next couple of hours or so. And when it will be published on all major podcast platforms, again, in a couple of hours. And tomorrow on this channel for 10 minutes, we are going to have a summary of what Tom and I discussed today.. And thank you so much for giving so much wisdom and insight to the audience. So until tomorrow, thank you so much for being here. Like the podcast, still ask your question. Actually, before I let Tom go, let me see if someone has asked a question. Okay, I don't see anything on, on, on LinkedIn, but still ask your, your question and we're gonna make sure to respond to them on future podcasts. Uh, see you tomorrow.

Bye.

Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with