🚀 S4:E49 🎙️ LIVE — Innovation vs. Improvement: How Great Leaders Build Cultures of Breakthrough

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Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest. And that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

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All right everyone, thank you so much for being with me today. This is Coach Bizzy and today is Tuesday August 12th, about 7:12 AM Pacific time now, so it should be 10:12 AM Eastern time. So thanks so much for being with me. Today we are going to be talking about a subject I believe that's pretty important. I'm gonna share my screen, and it's going to be based on my article, Innovation Versus Improvement: How Great Leaders Build Cultures of Breakthrough. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. And it is so important in this 21st century, the age of AI, for leaders to really lead organizations that are full of innovation, right? That is very important, whether you are in the military or high-tech, Silicon Valley, where where I live, it is very important, I believe, in this day of age, to really create an environment where the people you lead are going to be more prone to innovate. So, in this live conversation, we're going to be exploring how to distinguish between true innovation and just incremental improvement, how great leaders create cultures where creativity and resilience thrive, and the role of psychological safety diversity of thought and freedom of experiment, right, in driving breakthroughs. So lessons from leaders like Ed Catmull, Admiral Rickover, and Kelly Johnson, Steve Jobs, and Henry Ford, and what they can teach us today. So to get started, I'm going to have my AI agent take it from here. So I will see you guys in about 25 minutes or so. But before I do, please let me know where you are joining us from. So it looks like we have Alexandru, who just checked in from Romania. Thank you so much for being here live, and I really appreciate you providing me the feedback live. So if you are here with me, let me know which city, which region, which country you are joining us from. And we are live on LinkedIn, on YouTube, and now on TikTok as well, and Instagram. And And then, this show is gonna be available to you guys within an hour or two on all major podcast platforms from Apple Podcasts to Amazon Audible, FM, and all of those. And also, if you believe this content is going to be useful to members from your inner circle, please tag someone. I appreciate that very, very much. Tag a colleague, a mentor, or someone you know who would benefit from this podcast. And if you have a question for me, please type it in the comment section on LinkedIn or YouTube. I should be able to see your question and I'm gonna come back in about 25 minutes and answer your question. And because of the interaction we are having, I now for most of my podcasts, I also have a frequently asked question. So these are questions I receive from throughout the entire social media sphere when I get questions mostly from LinkedIn, but also from YouTube or TikTok or wherever, I answer them toward the second portion of the podcast. But again, if your question isn't answered, that is okay. Type it in the comment section and I'm going to make sure to answer it. If not today, I'm going to be back here tomorrow. So make sure to tag me when you send your question. Okay. Thanks again for all of your support and engagement. And I'm going to let my AI agent take it. From here. Thank you.

Welcome everyone to our leadership conversation. Today we are diving deep into how great leaders balance innovation against incremental improvement. It's a wild ride through breakthrough thinking versus, you know, making the old model just a bit better.

I'm all in, excited to really break down how disruptive changes stack up against the steady incremental tweaks.

Absolutely. So we see that incremental projects are, well, easier to sell and lower risk, right? It's like when someone says, let's just make the Corolla a bit more fuel efficient, which is a familiar evolutionary improvement. But contrast that with what true innovation entails, a sweeping change that rethinks the whole system.

Mm-hmm, exactly. Incremental improvement is safe, But it might not be enough when a radical competitor shows up and shakes the whole market.

Right. And as the article explains, innovative leaps require leaders to be comfortable with higher risk because you're turning an entire system on its head. It's like daring to reinvent the engine rather than just polishing the old one.

Yep. And this reminds me of how, say, Henry Ford approached building that first mass-market V8 engine. He literally moved his team into Edison's lab to work in an isolated environment for creativity.

Exactly. It's like, um, the emphasis is all on the right conditions that spur innovation. When leaders create these cultures, what some call anti-fragile cultures, they empower experimentation, allow smart failures, and reward learning.

Yeah.

It's not about avoiding mistakes, but about learning quickly from them.

I get that, though sometimes I wonder if pushing for disruptive change all the time could overwhelm teams. Isn't it sometimes better to refine what already works?

That's a great point, and I think that's where the balance comes in. Sure, incremental improvements are lower risk and easier to get everyone on board with. But as the piece points out, when existential threats loom, a radical reinventor enters the arena the small tweaks just don't cut it.

Mm-hmm. So really, it's a leadership decision—when to push for big, bold innovation versus when to stick with safe, evolutionary changes, right? Exactly.

And the article lays it out quite clearly. Look at the examples. It discusses how Pixar, under Ed Catmull, through its brain trust method, fostered a culture where feedback even on early, messy ideas, transformed projects into masterpieces. Yep. And that required psychological safety.

Psychological safety is so critical. When team members know they won't be shot down for offering a wild idea, innovation flourishes.

Yeah, it's not soft at all. It's strategic. The article quotes leaders saying that making it safe to raise concerns and disagree isn't just nice to have, it's essential to unlocking real resilience.

Right, absolutely. And you see that with military leaders too, like Admiral Rickover, who made open debate a norm. His insistence on candid feedback essentially set a high bar for responsibility and quality.

Precisely. Rickover's approach was all about breaking down rigid hierarchies. He famously said that if a subordinate always said yes, they weren't really contributing. This mindset not only ensured accountability but also paved the way for, um, breakthrough safety and design practices.

And that emphasis on ownership resonates with so many other fields, like tech. Look at how Google's 20% time allowed engineers to step away from the strict schedule and work on pet projects that led to products like Gmail and AdSense.

Oh man, exactly. It's like giving people the runway to experiment, and then when they stumble upon something great, boom, the whole industry shifts. But it's, you know, a calculated risk because you're giving up some structure for innovation. Yeah.

I do wonder, though, couldn't too much freedom lead to chaos? Isn't there a risk in letting creativity run while tampering with systems that have worked for so long?

That's a fair challenge. I mean, uh, leaders do need to couple freedom with structure. They have to, as mentioned, invest resources for innovation. It's not a free-for-all. It's more like the Ten Commandments of resilient leadership: train for the unknown, build antifragile cultures, and importantly, cultivate psychological safety.

Mm-hmm, right. The commandments remind us that there's a framework behind all this. You can't just have radical thinking without the responsibility of, say, aligning your team around shared goals and ensuring continual learning. Exactly.

And the article smartly ties together lessons from so many examples. Think about Kelly Johnson at Skunk Works, who built super lean teams and literally let brilliant minds iterate with minimal constraints. Right. That approach led to some of the greatest technological achievements in aerospace.

And then there's Steve Jobs at Apple. Jobs didn't settle for tweaks. He was all about, um, making revolutionary products that created entirely new markets, basically putting a dent in the universe. Yes.

And then there's Tim Cook, who, while different in style, has effectively built on Jobs's legacy by expanding Apple's product lines and even, um, emphasizing privacy as a core brand value. It shows that there are complementary leadership styles, one for breakthrough innovation and one for exceptional execution.

Yeah, it's fascinating how different industries, from automotive with Ford to entertainment with Pixar to aerospace with Skunk Works, leverage, um, distinct cultures to drive innovation. Each example stresses that a supportive environment and clear visionary leadership are key. Right.

And the article doesn't stop at just business cases. It even ties in leadership insights from scripture. It, uh, challenges readers to think about innovation as something that requires new structures, like the new wineskins analogy, and to seek wisdom through prayer and counsel before diving into radical change.

I love that connection—melding timeless wisdom with modern leadership challenges. It shows that innovation isn't just a business tactic; it's part of a broader human endeavor.

Totally! And look at Proverbs 8:12 and Romans 12:2. These passages remind us that wisdom, prudence, and a renewed mindset are essential in navigating the risks of bold innovations. In practice, balancing these elements can Um, turn potential catastrophe into breakthrough opportunities.

Exactly. It's about understanding that every innovative leap, no matter how bold, is grounded in responsibility, culture, and trust. And that's why creating an environment where team members feel safe to speak up is non-negotiable. Absolutely.

It's also a call for leaders to invest in diversity of thought. Studies cited remind us that teams with varied perspectives are often the ones that catch blind spots and spark novel ideas.

Yeah, I do wonder though if sometimes leaders lean too heavily on what has worked before. I mean, isn't there a danger in relying on legacy practices without, um, continuously pushing those boundaries?

That's a great critique. In our discussion, the article clearly distinguishes between safe incremental leanings and genuine leaps forward. The risk with sticking only to incremental improvements is that you might be unprepared when a game-changing force emerges. So leaders must, as the article emphasizes, be ready to switch gears and change the whole system when necessary. Mm-hmm, right.

It's a matter of knowing when the stakes call for a bold transformation rather than cautious evolution. Exactly.

And that's where resilient leadership comes in. The Ten Commandments of resilient leadership, like build antifragile cultures and train for the unknown, provide a roadmap. They stress that to truly innovate, you must set up both the culture and the systems that encourage both creativity and accountability.

It's like having the best of both worlds, incremental gains where possible and leaps when demanded by external pressures. This dual strategy turns potential risks into opportunities.

Absolutely. And leadership here is a continuous balancing act. It's not just about catching up with technology; it's about shaping a culture where, um, everyone, from the boardroom to the workshop, is invested in both constant learning and breakthrough innovation.

Right, exactly. And that strategic mix is what equips leaders to not only survive but thrive in volatile environments. Precisely.

In the end, whether you're in cybersecurity, tech startups, or even military strategy, the lesson is clear. Empower your people, create safe spaces for ideas, and don't shy away from radical change when the moment demands.

Mm-hmm. This conversation really brings home that innovation isn't accidental. It's engineered by leaders who know when to evolve and when to revolutionize.

Exactly. And by following the principles laid out, from fostering diversity, enabling smart failures, to anchoring innovation in deep trust and accountability, we set the stage for breakthroughs. Right on.

Thanks for such an enlightening chat. I feel like I have a sharper view on how true leadership isn't about minor fixes, but about transformative leaps, supported by a culture of resilience and wisdom.

Couldn't have said it better. Thanks for tuning in as we explore how, with courage, humility, and calculated risk, leadership can navigate the spectrum from steady improvement to disruptive innovation. Frequently Asked Questions. What is the fundamental difference between innovation and improvement? Incremental improvement refines and optimizes what already exists, leading to gradual gains, e.g., making a car more fuel-efficient. True innovation, on the other hand, is revolutionary. It involves rethinking assumptions and introducing entirely new solutions that challenge the status quo and often lead to unexpected benefits, creating a new model altogether, e.g., the transition from BlackBerry to iPhone. While improvement works if conditions are stable, Innovation is crucial for outmaneuvering radical competitors or existential threats.

Why is an incremental approach often favored over a disruptive one, and what are the inherent risks of each? An incremental project is typically easier to sell within an organization, carries lower execution risk, and is more readily adopted because it involves smaller changes. This makes it an attractive option, as individuals generally want to avoid leading a failed project. In contrast, disruptive change requires an entire system to change, involving greater uncertainty, higher risks, and the need to get everyone on board with an entirely new vision. While incremental changes are safer in the short term, relying solely on them can leave an organization vulnerable when a radical competitor emerges, as small tweaks won't be enough to address a fundamentally different threat or opportunity.

How do great leaders foster a culture of innovation within their organizations? Great leaders create the right conditions for breakthroughs by championing psychological safety, which means empowering teams to experiment and allowing for smart failures where learning is rewarded. They encourage open debate and welcome disagreement, breaking down rigid hierarchies so that all team members feel safe to voice concerns and innovative ideas. Additionally, visionary leaders prioritize diversity of thought, hiring and listening to people from varied backgrounds to generate a wider range of approaches and identify blind spots. Finally, they invest resources for innovation, allocating budgets to R&D and providing teams with the time and freedom to explore new skills and ideas, often before they are explicitly needed.

What are some real-world examples of leaders who successfully championed innovation? And what strategies did they employ? Ed Catmull, Pixar Animation Studios: Institutionalized brain trust feedback sessions, where candid critiques of work, not individuals, fostered trust and relentless problem-solving, turning mediocre drafts into classics. He believed in hiring brilliant teams and enabling them. Admiral Hyman G. Rickover, Nuclear Navy: insisted on total accountability and free discussion without fear of authority, making it safe for engineers and officers to raise doubts and ideas, leading to technical breakthroughs in safety and design. Clarence Kelly Johnson, Skunk Works, Lockheed Martin: hired the best talent, kept teams small, and provided near-ideal conditions of trust and autonomy, allowing engineers freedom to improvise, rapidly prototype and test, leading to engineering miracles like the SR-71 Blackbird. Steve Jobs, Apple: Focused on visionary goals and beyond-the-horizon thinking, pushing Apple to "put a dent in the universe" by intensely focusing on design and solving user needs people didn't even know they had. Henry Ford, Ford Motor Company: Created an environment conducive to innovation by moving a small team into Thomas Edison's lab, providing privacy and freedom from distraction that accelerated the development of the revolutionary mass-market V8 engine. Google: 20% time policy. Formally allocated time for engineers to work on pet projects, directly leading to breakthroughs like Gmail and AdSense. Demonstrating that trusting employees with time and autonomy fosters new product lines.

What is the role of culture and psychological safety in driving innovation? A supportive culture is a critical force multiplier for innovation. It involves setting ambitious goals, 10x or moonshot thinking, fostering curiosity, and building resilience. Crucially, Psychological safety is strategic. It ensures individuals feel safe to express ideas, voice concerns, and make mistakes without fear of blame. In such cultures, failure is viewed as a learning opportunity, leading to quick iterative tests and honest postmortems that transform errors into valuable lessons. Without explicit permission to try new ideas, even intelligent people will stick to safe, traditional playbooks, stifling creativity.

How do the Ten Commandments of Resilient Leadership relate to fostering innovation? The Ten Commandments of Resilient Leadership provide a framework that directly underpins innovation. For instance, Commandment 6, Build Antifragile Cultures, advocates for empowering experimentation and rewarding learning, mirroring practices at Pixar and Skunk Works. Commandment 8, "Cultivate psychological safety," emphasizes its strategic importance, aligning with how leaders like Admiral Rickover and Ed Catmull made truth-telling safe. Commandment 7, "Train for the unknown," urges continuous skill development, reflecting Google's investment in new capabilities. Other commandments, such as "Decide with Courage" and "Expand Your Network," further support bold, vision-driven leaps and diverse thinking essential for true innovation.

What are the key takeaways for aspiring leaders who want to champion innovation? Aspiring leaders should: 1. Differentiate Innovation Versus Improvement: Understand whether an effort is merely refining an existing solution or inventing a fundamentally new one. 2. Build safety and trust: Create an environment where people feel safe to speak up, try new things, and provide honest feedback without fear of reprisal. 3. Embrace diverse ideas: Actively seek out and value different backgrounds and opinions to stimulate creativity and uncover blind spots. Allocate resources for innovation: Protect time and budget for experimentation, training, and developing new skills. 5. Aim high, lead courageously: Set ambitious, 10x goals rather than settling for incremental changes when a breakthrough is possible. 6. Utilize leadership frameworks: Apply principles like the "Ten Commandments of Resilient Leadership" to guide the creation of innovative teams.

How can a spiritual or philosophical perspective inform a leader's approach to innovation? A spiritual perspective, as drawn from the provided biblical insights, suggests that innovation is aligned with a divine call to embrace new things and navigate uncharted territories. Isaiah 43:19. It emphasizes that true innovation should be rooted in wisdom and prudence. Proverbs 8:12, James 1:5. Balancing creative vision with thoughtful execution to ensure sustainability. Innovation also requires a renewing of the mind, Romans 12:2, resisting outdated patterns and continually adapting. Leaders are encouraged to accept unexpected turns as foundational for new growth, Ecclesiastes 7:13, and be willing to create new wineskins, new structures and mindsets, to properly support and steward fresh ideas. Matthew 9:17. This perspective frames creativity as part of a divine nature, inviting leaders to reflect this creativity in problem-solving and future-building.

Think on these things. What's truly striking about Bob Fabien Zinga's approach to leadership is not just how grounded it is in real-world experience, from the Navy's chain of command to the flat teams of Silicon Valley, but how it's also informed by timeless wisdom. In his article, Bob draws on scripture—yes, ancient texts written thousands of years ago—and reveals just how relevant they remain for leaders navigating today's chaotic and complex world. This isn't about preaching; it's about principles—unchanging truths that have guided great leaders across generations. What's powerful here is how seamlessly these insights complement everything we've explored so far. Let's walk through each of these ancient verses Bob highlights and unpack what they mean for today's leader, military or tech, startup or enterprise.

Isaiah 43:19, NIV: See, I am doing a new thing. Now it springs up. Do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Leadership Insight: God calls us to recognize and embrace the new things he is doing. Leadership demands openness to new possibilities and the courage to navigate uncharted territories, just as God carves paths through wildernesses. Coaching Prompt: Are you actively looking for the new things? That may not fit the old mold? What new opportunities might God be prompting you to pursue that require bold, innovative leadership?

Proverbs 8:12 ESV: I, Wisdom, dwell with Prudence, and I find Knowledge and Discretion. Leadership Insight. True innovation must be rooted in wisdom and prudence. Creativity without discretion can lead to recklessness. But when tempered by godly wisdom, innovation becomes sustainable and impactful. Coaching prompt: Before pursuing new ideas, have you sought wisdom through prayer, counsel, and research? How can you balance creative vision with prudent execution?

Romans 12:2, NIV: Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Leadership. Insight: Innovation begins with renewal, a shift in mindset. Great leaders resist conformity and continually renew their thinking to adapt, challenge, and grow. Coaching prompt: Where in your leadership have you been tempted to conform to outdated patterns? How can you intentionally renew your mind to lead with greater creativity and vision? Ecclesiastes 7:13.

NIV. Consider what God has done— who can straighten what he has made crooked? Leadership. Insight: Innovation sometimes involves accepting the crooked paths as God designed. Leaders must recognize that not every twist or disruption is a mistake. It may be the foundation for new growth and innovation. Coaching. Prompt: Are you frustrated by unexpected turns in your leadership journey? How can you trust that these crooked paths are shaping you and your organization for future breakthroughs?

Matthew 9:17, NIV. Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out, and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved. Leadership Insight: New ideas often require new structures. Old frameworks may not be able to contain the innovation God wants to bring. Leaders must be willing to redesign systems and mindsets to steward fresh vision properly. Coaching Prompt: Are you trying to fit new ideas into old structures that no longer serve? What new wineskins might you need to create to support the innovation you're called to lead?

James 1:5 : If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. Leadership Insight: Innovation is not just about intelligence or creativity; it's about seeking divine wisdom first. Leaders who innovate with God's wisdom lead with clarity, purpose, and sustainability.

Coaching.

Prompt: In your next big decision or creative endeavor, have you paused to seek God's wisdom? How can making this your first step anchor your leadership in faith and strategic clarity? Bonus Thought: Innovation rooted in Scripture reminds us that creativity is part of God's nature, and we are invited to reflect His creativity in how we lead, solve problems, and build for the future. So as we wrap up today's episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ, we invite you to reflect. What spoke to you today? Which leadership insight will you carry into tomorrow? What are your 3 takeaways from this episode? What's one leadership insight you've just learned or been reminded of that you'll apply this week? Type it in the comments so others can grow from your insight. And tag a colleague, junior officer, or tech leader who could benefit from this episode. Join us again tomorrow, right here, for the next episode in this powerful leadership series. Until then, keep growing, keep leading, and as always, stay resilient.

All right, thank you so much, all of my agents. So this is it for today. Let me see if there are any other comments on LinkedIn or YouTube. So I did have a comment from Folo Adunola. She said, spot on, Bob. Effective leadership today isn't just about keeping pace with technology, It's about shaping the culture, staying agile, and prioritizing ethics. Leadership who invest in vision, collaboration, and continuous learning are the one— let me get the entire thing, sorry— are the one driving real innovation. All right, thank you so much. And I also add a comment from my, uh, Sidari, my mentor, retired captain. Joel Rothschild, who said, "This is an excellent read for anyone looking to move into a leadership position. Not only does BZ do a great job of defining what needs to be done, but how to do it. All too often, I see disconnect between what management says and what management does. Innovation and improvement must be pursued simultaneously. Bob Fabien Zinga shows us how to do it." BZ, BZ. And also, by the way, part of the reason why I wrote this article was because my mentor Captain Rothschild challenged me in a previous post. So if you guys have some ideas about what the next discussion, the next article in this Leadership Devotion should be, please just tag me and let me know, and I'm gonna do my best to think on those things and come up with an article that makes sense. Again, my passion on this podcast is really for future aspiring leaders in both the military which I started as an E-1 seaman recruit, and I am now a commander, senior officer in the US Navy, and I care a lot about our sailors and all of the members of the US Armed Forces. And I know in the military, leadership is really critical to everything we do, from the lowest rank of enlisted to the highest rank of officers. So those are the people I really would like to coach, help develop and challenge, and give them the tools and my experience, right, my last 20 years in the Navy, whatever I've learned, and I want to pass it on to them. So again, if you have specific issues, project principles, and things you believe we should be discussing in this Leadership and Success podcast, just tag me. And then the other portion also are aspiring tech leaders. When I first started more than 26 years ago, I was a technician assistant, and today I am a C-level executive in Silicon Valley. So again, for those people who are specifically in security, security analyst, security engineer, or intern, and who one day hope to be a leader, a manager, director, senior director, vice president, or C-level executive, this podcast is for you. So if there is anything I can do to help you on your journey, just let me know, and we're going to be discussing it right here. All right, I don't see any other question. And thanks again for those of you engaging with me, letting me know where you are connecting from. It's always important for a creator to know that I'm not just speaking in a black hole, that there are people on the other side who listen and that what I'm talking about benefits you as well. So I'm gonna be back here tomorrow morning on LinkedIn and YouTube live. And thanks again for supporting this podcast and being with me today. Until tomorrow. This is Coach BZ saying have a wonderful day.

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