S4:E71 🎙️LIVE with Vice Admiral Frank Morley, U.S. Navy (Ret.) (Multi Tracks Audio)

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Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ. Today we are truly honored to host a leader whose career is a blueprint for service, adaptability, and vision. My guest is Vice Admiral Frank Morley, United States Navy, retired. Over the course of 36 years in uniform, Admiral Morley served as an operational F/A-18 Hornet pilot and test pilot, amassing more than 3,500 flight hours and 750 carrier landings, flying over 35 types of aircraft. A commanding officer shaping the next generation of naval aviators and leaders, the longest-serving Director of Navy International Programs, strengthening alliances and building global partnerships, and ultimately the senior-most uniformed acquisition official in the Department of the Navy, overseeing research, development, and procurement at the highest levels. After retiring from active duty, Admiral Morley began a new chapter in service, leading as Vice President for Asia Pacific and the Americas at Northrop Grumman, where he continues to support regional security and innovation. Beyond the titles and achievements, he is a man of balance, finding joy in hiking, cycling, fly fishing, and time with his wife Elizabeth at their cottage in the mountains of New York. One of my favorite quotes from Admiral Morley is this: We are the good guys. We are the winning team. It's a reminder that leadership is not just about the mission. It's about who we are, the values we embody, and the trust we build with others. Whether you're a naval junior officer aspiring to command one day or a Silicon Valley engineer stepping into leadership, today's conversation will equip you with timeless insights on leading with purpose, adaptability, and courage. Stay tuned, you won't want to miss this.

Hello everybody, welcome to what I think arguably is the most exciting Quick Chat that we've seen today. My name is Rear Admiral Frank Morley. I'm the Director of Navy International Programs. Really, this is such a high-demand mission today. If you think about it, the National Defense Strategy, it's one of three lines of effort: partners and allies. Our most strategic center of gravity as a country is our partners and allies, and those with the most friends typically tend to win, right? What a wonderful symposium, and what have I learned from this symposium is that I've learned that our future is bright. What a wonderful group of students, young minds jumping into learning, advancing the art of acquisition of understanding the challenges that are there and really just extremely motivated and thinking at a very high level.

All right, everyone, thank you so much for being with me today.

Today is a very special day. First of all, today is 9/11. It's a very sacred day for me. Before we start our moment of gratitude, like we normally do, let's take a moment of silence and remember the nearly 3,000 people who died that day, 24 years ago. What really gets to me sometimes too is sometimes we say nearly 3,000, the exact number was 2,977. I think each number really means something. It is a life, somebody who had a family, loved one, parents, maybe a spouse, children, colleagues and friends, so it really does matter.

While we do that, let me play this short video to remember 9/11.

I do walking tours of the 9/11 Memorial for the 9/11 Tribute Center, and I meet people on my tours from all four corners of the globe. On every one of my tours, I mention that most people don't remember what they did yesterday, but I have had so many guests on my tours come up to me and say that they remember every single detail about where they were and what they were doing on September 11th, regardless of where they're from.

When you talk to anybody, say, you know, and you tell them where you were on September 11th, they'll tell you exactly where they were, because even though they may not have been in the building, but they'll definitely remember where they were.

People always remember every single moment of that day around the world, because September 11th, 2001 is not just New Yorkers' story. It's not just my story, but it is international. A part of history and a history of every single person in the world.

And what I say to my guests all the time is, that's your 9/11 story, and you should tell it, because by telling it, by doing so, you help us to share history and you help us to keep the spirit of what happened here alive. I'm inspired I'm inspired by that. That gives me so much hope.

I believe September 11th would be the equivalent of D-Day for certain generations, or Pearl Harbor, or when JFK was assassinated. You know, those seminal markers in your history, in your lifetime.

My cousin was in Pearl Harbor. My father and grandfather remember Pearl Harbor. These generations will need to remember.

I think it's important to try to remember some tragedies, remember that life can be very precious and can be gone in a flash.

These are emotional memories that cannot be translated into a textbook. These are stories that we tell people, and hopefully the generation will understand this here and bring it forward to the next generation.

I feel that a lot of people use September 11th to remember the wrong things, to remember the divisions instead of what brought us together. And I think as more and more time goes by, more and more people just remember the hate that caused that act instead of the love that followed it. We were all one that day. People from New York, D.C., all over the country and all over the world, everybody was united. I think that's why everybody remembers where they were, because everybody's heart was here. I remember—

I remembered—

I remember September 11th.

I remember September 11th.

I remember September 11th.

I remember September 11th.

I remember September 11th.

All right, like many of you, I too remember September 11th.

Actually it's one of the reasons why I joined the military. More than 20 years ago. And if you can please share in the comment where you were during September 11th. Also, if you have a question for the Admiral, please type it in the comment and let us also know where you are joining from. I want to acknowledge there is a LinkedIn user, sorry, I don't see your name, but you're saying that Fabien Messiani and you are joining from Los Angeles, California. Hello Fabien. Actually, it's like my middle name, Fabien. Thank you so much for being with us.

So really quickly, we're gonna go through our moment of gratitude I love to do this because I think it's important.

And for those who've been watching this podcast for a while, the reason why we do the moment of gratitude is because in the military, let's say about 21, 22 people commit suicide every single day. It's really an epidemic. And I think we need to take care of our mental health. And it's really impossible to be suicidal and be grateful at the very same time. You cannot be depressed and be grateful at the very same time. You cannot be full of anxiety and be grateful at the same time. So we're gonna take just a quick moment, less than a minute.

If you are open to it, you may close your eyes, put yourself in your happy place, and maybe take a deep breath and think about one thing you are grateful for today.

What is it? What are you grateful for?

I think today I am grateful for unity.

9/11 was a very bad day in our country, really like Pearl Harbor was to the Greatest Generation for Gen Xers like me.

But the day after, 9/12, was a day of great unity.

I've never seen America so united and together, helping neighbors and coming together to help one another.

That's really the America I would die for, the reason why—

part of the reason why I joined the fight, why I joined the US Navy 20 years ago as a seaman with could.

But anyway, if you can type what you're grateful for in the comment, I very much appreciate that. So now I'm gonna bring, um, our very, very special guest today on this sacred day. I am honored to welcome Vice Admiral Frank Morley, U.S. Navy retired, to the Leadership and Success, um, podcast. Well, I think this is season 4, episode 71.

My goodness.

So Admiral Morley has been flying F/A-18 Hornet and test piloting over 35 aircraft types And he served in the Department of the Navy's senior-most uniform acquisition official to leading Northrop Grumman Asia Pacific and American Business Today. So Admiral's journey really is a masterclass in service, adaptability, and global leadership. Ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome Admiral Frank Morley. Oh, I don't see him yet. Come on.

Okay, come on computer.

There we go. All right, there we go.

Okay, uh, there seems to be a little delay.

Let me try one more time. Okay, Admiral, I see you, but I don't think you are on the stage yet.

Uh, I'm on the stage now.

Here we go.

I think you are coming in now.

Okay. All right, please help me welcome Admiral Frank Morley, finally! All right, sir, thank you so much for making the time to be here. I know you are super, super busy, and I am just so excited. Maybe to get started, sir, I don't know if you have any thoughts about 9/11 and maybe one thing you are grateful for today.

Yeah, well, thanks for having me, BZ. I think that video was very powerful, and it does— that is a very remarkable thing about that day, much like Pearl Harbor of a couple of generations past, is the fact that we all do remember where we were. So, you know, my, my 9/11 story, I was a fighter pilot department head, Lieutenant Commander in NAS Oceana, Virginia. And when it started, we were off the boat cycle. So we were not expecting to go to the boat, nor were we kind of proficient. Been several months, but our carrier, the George Washington, happened to be at sea. That day for nuclear reactor drills. And so we got the call. I flew 3 times on 9/11, all practice carrier landings at the field so that the next morning we could fly up the Eastern Seaboard off of New York City and join George Washington at sea and then fly, you know, combat air patrol for a week until everything calmed down. Very eerie flying up the Eastern Seaboard with no air traffic, no, nobody on the radios. Seeing the smoke still smoldering from New York City and the like. So that's my story. And like you said, there's lots of folks on here, some folks on here that weren't even born when it happened. Others like you, BZ, joined because of it. And then older folks like me who were, you know, already in and responding to it. So it really did bring the country together.

Wow.

And what is one thing you are grateful for today?

Oh, I would say, you know, I pray for 3 things every day: health, happiness, and fulfillment. Wow, I love that. And so I would say right now I have all 3, so it's a good day.

Wow, health, happiness, and fulfillment.

This is wonderful.

Because there is a difference, right, between fulfillment and success, isn't there?

There is, yeah, I think so. And I think there's a difference between happiness and fulfillment, right? Happiness is kind of— the way I look at it is how you approach each day and that you enjoy what you're doing in that day and enjoy the people that you're around and everything like that. And fulfillment, of course, is, I think, feeling that what you're doing means something and you're part of something bigger than yourself.

Wow, that is powerful.

And another question I will ask is, Is there something about you that most people may not know about?

Boy, you know, I don't know, actually. Maybe I'll come back to that one. I'll think about that one.

Okay. Like for me, for example, I've been playing the piano since I was 7 years old. Most people don't do that. And also I've produced 2 albums when I was just a teenager.

Yeah, I don't think I have any hidden talents. I played the trumpet and trombone in school and wasn't good at either of them.

All right. So can you tell us about your leadership journey, how you came to become Admiral Franklin?

Yeah, well, of course, I don't think anybody really starts out with that plan, right? So I, you know, for whatever reason, I kind of liked— was intrigued with flying at a very early age. I didn't have any family members or background to it, but for whatever reason, it kind of intrigued me. That became kind of my goal. Drove my, you know, studies. I read a lot about it, dabbled in it when I could with local airports and the like. You know, you kind of realize that probably some of the coolest airplanes are in the military and looking that way. And obviously that also allows an opportunity for education in our country. And I came from a family with not a lot of means. Uh, so those two things lined up, and, uh, and that's kind of what got me in, uh, service. And then, like many of us on the journey, uh, you come in for a number of reasons, um, and then while you're in, you kind of start to realize what you like about it, and it becomes a profession and a passion, uh, not only just the main skill set that you came in for, but the leadership, the challenge. The, the variety, opportunities, etc. So I stuck around, liked it, and, uh, you know, and signed a long enlistment contract, I guess.

That is amazing. We have the true Top Gun right here in front of us. It's, it's, it's really incredible. F/A-18 Hornet pilot. Uh, what did you learn as a young F/A-18 pilot that has shaped your leadership style?

Yeah, you know, I think thinking about that, uh, I think probably the biggest 2 things that come out of that is the understanding and the value of preparation, and then the confidence that, uh, that comes from that. So, you know, going through flight school and really every flight pretty much through your whole career is, is a test in and of itself, uh, and there's preparation for it and there's study for it and there's You know, what are we doing that day? How am I briefing it? Uh, what are the tactics we're going to employ? What are— you know, if it's part of a syllabus flight, uh, you know, what are the tactics I need to explain, to brief, to demonstrate? Uh, what's the question of the day? What's the emergency of the day? And so, you know, throughout years and years of doing that, every night, you know, you were preparing for that next, uh, test, if you will. Uh, so that really kind of instilled in you the importance of preparation and then being successful in it. And obviously flying an airplane and flying a fighter plane is pretty cool. You do derive a certain amount of self-confidence and also humility. If you're good, there's a, there's a healthy humility to realizing that you make mistakes and you need to correct those. So I think Those 3 things probably are what, you know, probably benefits you long term.

So you haven't just flown the F/A-18, my favorite, but also MiG-29, actually up to 35 different aircraft, which is crazy.

So, but what did those experiences teach you, sir, about adaptability and confidence under pressure?

I'm sure a lot of—

Yeah, I think, you know, again, the preparation part, the confidence part. And then as you move into, you know, thinking about the skill sets that a test pilot provides you, uh, it, it gives you a skill set of looking at things differently, looking at things critically, looking at things from multiple perspectives and not just the perspective of where you came from. And that becomes important later on in, uh, in your leadership journey, where one of the best definitions of strategic leadership or strategic thinking that I've ever received is being able to look at a problem from multiple perspectives. And so I think the test pilot skills and flying these different airplanes and stuff helped, uh, and the evaluation skills that came from that helped ingrain that kind of basic, uh, thinking approach in, in, into you, uh, as well as, uh, obviously the, um, the discipline of, uh, risk assessment, of risk management, and data-driven perspectives. Now, these are not everything about leadership, but these certainly are key basic building blocks, if you will. And that's certainly front and center as a test pilot.

Wow. And also, you were a commanding officer. I remember the first time I became a CEO, it was probably the most challenging time of my entire career, but also the most rewarding at the same time. What was the most challenging leadership moment you've had as a first commanding officer?

And how did you navigate it?

What's wonderful in the military, I think, at the O5 command, which is generally your first real opportunity for independent command, is that it really is a learning laboratory. If you progress to have command of an operational unit that you grew up in, It's actually really your only time in command that you actually know all the jobs very well. I mean, you grew up in that, in that kind of unit over the last 18 years or so. And so, you know it better than any other command you'll ever have moving forward. And so it really is a learning laboratory. It really is an opportunity. And you have time built in to sit down with the Command Master Chief and the XO and to and to talk about, you know, how you're going to handle the Christmas party or the all-hands party or all these type of things. So, um, so, so that's good. I would say, you know, thinking back during my time, one of the biggest challenges I had was, which was not expected and was unique, nothing I lived through before, which is that, uh, we were a legacy F-18 squadron at the time. We were trying to stretch the fleet and we were running out of, uh, of, of hours and traps and landings on these airplanes. And so, uh, they devised an aircraft swap where we swapped with the adversary squadron at Oceana because the adversary squadron airplanes had a lot of carrier landings left on them and our airplanes had a lot of structural, life left on them, and so we could continue those airplanes on longer. So it was a full aircraft swap, but it was swapping back to the oldest of F-18s, to F-18As. So what I was faced with was, uh, one, having to do a complete aircraft squadron swap of airplanes, which is a pretty significant event, wow, as well as the motivation to maintain the motivation of the squadron, both maintainer and pilot, in taking a step back to older airplanes. And so I certainly had to think about that a lot. And a couple things we did, and certainly talked about it, right, uh, with everybody and got a lot of inputs. But two things that— a few things we did. One is that for the mechanics of the swap, every airplane swap I'd ever lived through, the way we do it is the squadron giving the airplane up does an inspection, and then they, they in their mind say it's the best, cleanest airplane ever. And then they pass it over to the receiver, and the receiver command looks at it, does the same thing, and says, oh, this aircraft's all got all sorts of problems to it. And, and it's, first of all, it's a lot of duplicity of effort, and then a lot of scar tissue builds up between the commands and finger-pointing, etc. So we thought through that and we said, look, we got, you know, 14 airplanes to swap, actually, you know, double that because we're two sets of airplanes. So we devised with the other commanding officer, we got together and we said, let's do simultaneous. We'll have your people and my people as we open the airplane up once, inspect it and agree to the condition of everything. And so that built a camaraderie between the two squadrons and one piece of paper. So that was good. Um, the second one was, uh, morale for the squadron and the main maintainers, because this was a high-performing squadron, just came off a Battle E deployment, etc. And they're like, oh, we're being rewarded with older airplanes.

And I said—

told them that the storyline that we created on this was that, one, there's a reason why we're getting those airplanes, because we can pull this off. And two, if we have the nicest looking airplanes on the flight line and they fly, we will be heroes on this. And so a lot of pride got taken. These airplanes were all painted, uh, they looked new, they were maintained in pristine condition, and they flew. And so, so that was great. And then the third one for the pilots themselves, because they're getting an older airplane, but one thing about the F-18A, and they were called A-pluses because they, uh, were really light with the slightly bigger engine is that, uh, they were high-performing fighter airplanes. They're, they're lighter, uh, and a little more powerful. And so, uh, so we, uh, we arranged for some, uh, an extensive time of fighting the airplane with against F-22s and other airplanes so they could really appreciate the performance of the airplane they got. So, uh, so all three of those things, you know, worked well for us and And the final account of that was that year we got a second battle E, which is unheard of two years in a row for a non-deploying squadron, mind you. Wow. We also won the maintenance M and the safety S all in one year. So it was an amazing squadron.

That's amazing.

Absolutely amazing. You mentioned the triad.

So you as the CO, you have your executive officer, XO, and then senior enlisted leader, or Advisor, how did you manage the triad to ensure the success of your mission? No more with communication, delegation, but also accountability.

Yeah, you know, I think one thing that, that a pitfall folks may fall into, particularly O5 command, because it's your first command and it's also something you know very well, is to have too much of perceived notions as to how your squadron is going to be or your ship or whatever. Commanded as you have, because you've lived it, you've thought about it. It's, it's almost, you know, like, uh, you know, like your wife in the wedding, right? She's thought about this wedding for her entire life, and she's got, you know, some very set— but unlike a wedding, a wedding you can kind of control, but a command, um, it's what I would tell people is, look, the command you get is not the command that you dreamed of in your dreams. It might be better, it might be worse, but it's going to be different. And so you need to listen, you need to have humility, you need to adapt what you're going to do with that command based off of the makeup, the personality, where it is, uh, in its cycle. So I think that was probably the, the biggest approach is listening, adapting, and, uh, you know, being humble to, uh, you know, what, what, where we were going to go and what we were going to do.

That is really powerful.

I think the Navy, we are probably the only service, I am pretty sure, where the commanding officer is pretty much, you know, God at sea, right?

Uh, basically it's what, uh, command by negation, right? As long as you do what your, uh, R6 says you should do, you don't have to look over your shoulder or tell you how to, you know, set the, the the vision and manage the culture of your crew.

I think in the other services, uh, there is, um, more of an oversight from senior management.

But anyway, for the junior officers who are listening to you right now, sir, even at the department head level, how do you manage the mission and the people? One of the mantras we have in the Navy, I think every sailor knows that, mission first, people always. Well, that's easier said than done.

But when the, you know, the rubber meets the road, how do you really decide how to manage, make sure that you do the mission of your organization? That's why you are the CEO. That's why you have a job, but also at the same time taking care of all of your people.

Yeah, well, so, you know, again, listen is important because the squadron will tell you if you listen, or the command will tell you if you listen. And, you know, it's, it's a very trite answer, but your senior enlisted, your command master chief, your maintenance master chief, your senior enlisted are really the heart and soul. And they will— they care about the mission. They will ensure the mission's completed. But they also understand where the sailor is and what the, what the morale and situation is in the squadron. So Really, the biggest advice I would just give is listen. Now, what I used to talk about and the way we would manage it was I explained that, that look, this, the command, we're, think of it in terms of several rheostats. We have an operational tempo rheostat, we have a morale rheostat, we have a risk rheostat, Um, you know, and, and, and my job is to dial those in at the right level for the right time in the cycle. And so I'll be honest with you, sometimes I'm going to ask a lot of you, and we're going to be working really a lot, and our opportunities to be at home and stuff are going to be, uh, you know, less than desired. But, but there's going to be a reason for that. But then we're going to look for those opportunities where we can be at home and where we can have some off time and we can recharge. And so then we'll dial that rheostat up and down on the op tempo. And so, you know, we kind of talked about it in those terms. And what I found in any command or experience is if you communicate that, communicate what you're thinking and communicate why we're doing what we're doing, you know, folks respond, right? Because they understand.

Wow.

Wow.

That is, that is powerful. And so you've also been the director of the Navy International Program for 5 years. I believe that was the longest in the office history.

What role do international partnerships play in strengthening US security?

Yeah, I really enjoyed that role. It was my one-star job, which turned into my two-star job as well. And I used to joke, you know, saying, hey, I really love this job. I'd do it forever. And then I started to think they took me serious on it. One funny note. I had the Korean Vice Chief of the Navy at the time. I knew him very well. We had been working together for several years. And I think somewhere around my 4th or 5th year, he came in with his team and he opens up the discussion. His team's on one side, mine's on the other. They're talking through a translator, but he can speak English fairly well. And as he opens, makes his opening statement, his translator's going, He starts to get a little smile on his face. And the translation went something like, said, "You have been in this job for a long time." In our Navy, an officer is in a job for a long time for one of two reasons. One, they're extremely valuable and can't be moved. Or two, they're not very valuable and there's no place else to put them. Which one are you? And I laughed and I said, yeah, undetermined. So, but wow, your question, the importance of international partners, again, like one of the tapes, videos that you pulled out of somewhere on that history throughout history, whether it's the playground or the battlefield or the oceans of the world. Pretty much shows that those with the most friends tend to win. And, uh, and so, and that is one of this country's greatest strengths, is a, uh, a lot of like-minded nations that, uh, that think that have the same outlook, uh, in the world and are willing to work together. And so, uh, lots of allies and partners, um, that are natural, that aren't forced or coerced. Um, you know, politics goes up and down, we got bumps here and there, but, uh, But these things are longstanding, and, um, and so that, that's an incredible strategic advantage for us. And not only as a deterrent, uh, across the— to the bad actors in the world, uh, but certainly combat power, certainly capacity, uh, there, uh, certainly access and support, um, for what we have to do. And then there's, uh, obviously extensive economic benefit as well. So, uh, these are just, um This is key to our strategic well-being.

Wow.

And also after that, you became the Navy's senior most acquisition official.

So how did you approach balancing the speed of innovation with risk management and accountability, especially now, right, with the rise of cybersecurity, now AI and advanced defense systems?

Yeah, you know, it really is an amazing time, an exciting time. The, our defense industrial base for the first time in several decades is, is actually expanding. And, um, and so my last year in uniform, we pulled the, we pulled some data and we only looked back 10 years, and I'm sure if we look back 20 years it had been the same. But, um, I guess in 2023 it was the first year that, uh, we had, we, the Department of the Navy had more contracts with more companies than we'd had for 10 years, probably 20 years prior. It was a decreasing number of defense companies that we, you know, worked with. That was the first year where it was actually more, and that vector continues as we bring in, you know, what's termed the non-traditional companies, the tech companies, the software companies, these emerging companies that are entering into the defense industrial base. So that ultimately is good. For the industrial base, for the country. Competition is what we're built off of. Innovation's what we're built off of. So this is an exciting time. Now, if you look back in history, anytime there's, you know, new game-changing technology out there, whether it's the railroads or the internet or dot-com or whatever, there's a cycle. There's a boom cycle, Uh, then there's kind of a bust cycle, and then there's a level out as to who the real winners are and what's going to be sustainable. And so I think we're in that cycle right now for this emerging tech and very software-driven and unmanned and everything. These are all real capabilities that are going to be influential and change some of the dynamics of how we fight war. Um, but I think we're, uh, we're in the boom cycle right now. We're going to figure out how much of that we need, who does it the best, and in typical free market, you know, economy, in a very healthy way, we're going to have winners and losers, and we're going to come out the end with a kind of an understanding of how that fits in and how much capacity we need. So it's a dynamic time, but it's a very exciting time.

Yes, sir, and the last question I will have for this first segment is about your transition from the uniform, so the war room, to the boardroom. There are quite a few of my colleagues listening right now who are thinking about transitioning into civilian life. Uh, what, uh, leadership principle remain exactly the same in your opinion, sir?

Yeah, so, you know, a couple points on that. One, um, uh, of course, you know, for anybody, uh, coming out, and I certainly, you know, uh, uh, you have to think about what you want, right? And, uh, and, and do you want to, uh, you know, work full-time? Do you want to work part-time? Do you want to work in the industry? Do you want to work outside the industry? Or do you just want to, you know, completely retire? And so, you know, those are all foundational questions you and your family need to talk about and, uh, and what you, what you want to do, uh, on that. For me, um, you know, I knew the industry very well. I knew the business very well. I still, um, wanted to do stuff, uh, and I'm used to big organizations and, and know how to kind of work them successfully. And so I was excited about staying in the defense business and joining one of the large companies. And then, and then I really wanted to get back in the international business if I could, because I enjoy it. And, you know, I've got pretty good experience in it. And so, so that opportunity, you know, came through for me and it was a good fit. So you've got to work through that, what you want to do. If— but when you get out, a couple of things First of all, there's a lot more similarities than differences, I think. And I see that across the board. I mean, I see that culturally when I go to other countries. I think just we have a lot more similarities with people than we have differences from country to country. And the same thing with industry, and particularly in a big company, because it's going to be very familiar ground. But it is leadership's leadership. People want to feel valued. People want to feel that what they do is important. And people want to feel that they're part of something bigger than what they are. Organizational dynamics or organizational dynamics. You have to work through soft power and influence and not just direct hard power. That tends to be a little more in industry. Certainly need to do that with a slightly lighter touch than maybe some of us were used to in uniform. Or could get away with in uniform. And, uh, and then, uh, but most of this is similar. It's just about the technique, um, more so than the actual foundational difference. And then of course, uh, you know, there are aspects that are different in the fact that, uh, you know, instead of the ultimate goal being, say, operational readiness, uh, on there, the, you know, the ultimate goal for a free market, uh, company is to, uh, is to make money, uh, to, to deliver product, but to do so in a profitable way for the investors, shareholders, uh, etc. And so, so there is a, um, a learning curve there on what is a good business deal, what's the right place to put your assets of a company, uh, and put effort into, and why. Um, and then the execution is the execution. So, uh, that'd be kind of the first rough cut I'd give you.

Fantastic.

All right, so we are ready to move into the second segment, but before I do, is there any question I haven't asked that I should have asked for this first segment?

You know, I guess just one thing back on the second to last question on, uh, you know, the innovation in the world that we're in. The, uh, I think, um, part of this learning cycle we're in is what the right combination is going to be. So, you know, we have two kind of interesting examples in the world here recently from a military execution standpoint. We certainly have the Russia-Ukraine, uh, war, and then we have the Iraq, uh, or the Iran effort that went on, uh, with the B-2s, etc. Um, yes, one was a very low-end contained, uh, battlespace where we're seeing a lot of asymmetric UAV type of work there. And then the other one was a very high end where, you know, the Western world took down a very extensive IADS, uh, with some high-tech stuff very effectively. And so I think, um, military leaders, industry leaders, uh, thought leaders, as we continue to move forward, are gonna have to figure out what the right combination is because although there's a lot of extensive opportunity here for us and, and potentially revolution in military affairs type new technologies, there's still the need to have hardware, to have mass, to have penetration, and to have kinetics. And so, so we've got to always be careful to not overreact to one and strike the right balance as we go. So I think that's going to be a very fascinating time over the next decade or so as everybody works through that.

Very good. And so what is the greatest lesson you have Either learn.

Oh boy, greatest lesson. Oh, leadership advice. You know, I would say that probably the best lesson on leadership advice and stuff would be that. So you have to be true to yourself. So leadership is performative. In some ways. You have to— every day in command, you have to— has to be your best day. Everyone will play off your emotions. You, when you, when you take command, you are automatically funnier, better looking, and more interesting. And you have to have to utilize that correctly and not let it go to your head. And you have to show a positive outlook and, and all that. However, comma, people will see through you if it's not authentic in a heartbeat. And so you have to be the best of yourself, I think, is probably— so you don't just accept yourself at face value and say, well, I am what I am. You need to continue to perfect who you are. To perfect the way you come across, the way you communicate, the way you lead, the way you strategically think, etc. But you still need to stay true to yourself. If you're a funny guy, then stay funny. Just don't tell off-color jokes, right? If you're, you know, a relaxed person, you know, then manage in a relaxed style. If you're a more standoffish person just by your nature of your personality, well, that can succeed too. Um, but you just have to, uh, be true to yourself. So I think that's, um, kind of a key thing long term.

That is very powerful.

I remember when I finally made O5, it's been my dream for such a long time.

Now, I might have been a senior officer in the most powerful Navy in the world, but when I come home, I am not Commander Zinga.

My wife is Commander Zinga.

She definitely keeps me grounded. What kept you grounded?

Well, certainly my wife keeps me grounded, that's for sure. On that, that's oftentimes the best person, right? So, and they tell you even the more and more senior you get, the more and more important it is to have somebody or a group of folks that you can talk to that you're just you and that they don't see you as Admiral so-and-so or Commander so-and-so. They see you as Frank and, uh, or BZ, and, and aren't afraid to tell you, you know. So, um, so don't, don't, don't lose those people. Uh, keep in touch with those folks. And, and as you go further on, um, you will have to be the one oftentimes to maintain those relationships because It's an interest in the military. An interesting phenomenon is everybody retires and stays at the rank they retire in mindset for the rest of their lives, kind of, right? So, I mean, I've met guys that got out as lieutenants that became CEOs of major companies. And then when they saw me as an admiral, still were deferring and saying sir and everything like that. I'm like, what are you talking about, man?

Yes, sir.

And so you do need to— they will stay away from you out of respect, and you need to keep those lines open the further you get up because you need them and you need that grounding.

Wow, that is quite powerful. And what do you think is the secret of your outstanding success, sir?

Boy, you know, there's There's so— oh, who, who, you know, I think this quote, this quote, first time I heard it was from my high school football coach who claimed it as his own, but it's actually, I think, comes from a Greek philosopher if I remember last time I looked it up. But it's known to a lot of people, which is simply that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. And so, uh, I think that's pretty, uh, pretty key. Um, look, there's, there's luck involved in anyone's success. And so you've got to accept that fact that it wasn't all you that got there, that circumstances, timing, luck, etc., happened. There'll also be, you know, curves in the road that you weren't expecting, and how you react to those determines, you know, how successful you ultimately become. And it may not be down the path that you, you know, originally charted. I certainly didn't start out and, you know, with the dream to be the senior most uniformed acquisition guy in the Department of the Navy. Uh, you know, I didn't even know that existed or what that was. So, uh, certainly, you know, things change as you go along. But, um, uh, so you gotta, I think, have a just kind of a foundational grounding in understanding that. And then, and then it's about the preparation. And so, um, you know, having a passion for what you do is so, so important. You know, the prodigies in life, one, they have kind of the innate ability in it, but two, they have a passion for it, which drives them to practice that skill set hours upon hours upon hours. So if you love your work, you're going to naturally put a lot of energy into it. And so if you can find that match, that's key to success. And then, you know, Reading, we'll get into reading, I think, a little bit, but continuing to learn, continue to expand. And I think another little, little add I'll put on is, look, they, they promote you in any role, not because you're going to be the best in that next role, but because you're going to be the best in that role with potential to go further, because organizations are selfish., and they wanna keep the pool as big as they can, as long as they can. So they're really promoting you for your potential, not only for your ability to succeed at the next level, but to go beyond that potentially. And so stretching yourself and looking at what, looking at tasks through your boss's eyes and trying to understand their challenges And helping them solve their problems can kind of help stretch you and will also be very appreciated as well. So, yes.

Wow.

Very powerful answer. I know leaders are learners. What are you learning right now?

Yeah. So, you know, I've always— because I've always just really, you know, I've, I've gotten to do a lot of things in the Navy. I first time I kind of said it this way, I was giving a a dining out speech at the Naval Academy to a bunch of mids. And, and so, you know, I said, hey, look, you know, I'm just, I'm just a fleet average NROTC graduate from San Diego State, and I've got to do a lot of things in the Navy and, and all at the highest levels. I got to be a pilot, but not just a normal pilot, a fighter pilot landing on carriers. I got to be a test pilot, but, you know, a test pilot of the newest, you know, airplane carrier airplane. You know, coming out the time, um, I got to be a ship driver, but not of a tugboat, of the USS Enterprise with 8 nuclear reactors. Um, I got to be a commanding officer. I got to be a, um, a program manager, which, uh, doesn't sound cool when you're young, but, you know, $4 billion a year and sitting across from a CEO, uh, is, is kind of cool stuff as you get older. And I got to be an international arms dealer and not just a gunrunner, but one of the top 5 in the world. And so the Navy offered me some wonderful opportunities to move on. So I've always read the next thing I'm doing. I always tried to read a lot about that because I was excited about it and everything. So for me now, you know, it's obviously trying to get business DNA built into me a little bit. I certainly, my latter career, worked a lot with industry and, and that, so I have a kind of a head start. But, um, but it's, um, it's a big thing. So, um, you know, uh, House of Morgan is one thing I'm reading, which, uh, that, that drives the entire, you know, JP Morgan history, but really it's the financial history of the United States, um, which is, you know, some good reading. I'm reading, uh, a book by Alfred Sloan himself, who was a longtime general manager of General Motors. I mean, sorry, the CEO of General Motors, and for about 35 years. And if you know the Sloan Business School at MIT, that's that Sloan. And so that's been really remarkable on there. Also recently read a book called The Life Cycle of a CEO, which again, I don't intend to be a CEO, expect to be a CEO, but understanding my boss's challenges is helpful for me to do my job right. So, so those are kind of the, the current books I'm reading, given, you know, what I'm thinking about and doing now.

Now, of course, everybody, they look at your amazing career, they see all of the successes, but I'm sure there's been some failures at times.

And in my own experience, I learned more from failure than I do from success ever.

So how has failure shaped your life, sir?

Yeah, you know, so I don't have— fortunately, I don't have, you know, a great story of massive failure and revival and recovery, which is a good thing. But I've certainly failed many times. But, you know, I've thought about that question, and I think the, you know, the best way to answer it, because— is that, you know, there's a couple of adages. Aim small, miss small in hunting. And as a carrier pilot in landings, you make small and constant corrections of power in order to avoid large deviations of glide slope to precisely land on the carrier. And so what I found as I look back is I've spent a lot of time self-assessing and being very honest when I am failing or when I do do something wrong, and I try to correct for it quickly and minimize the deviation. I'll give you one example, and the learning continues. So this, you know, this example is a moment of failure of mine at the 3-star level. And so it was early on in my 3-star job, and it's a new environment. You're in the fire hose approach, right? You're getting a lot of stuff on you. You're, you're working, you know, 15 hours a day. You're still trying to figure out whether or not you're going to be able to handle this. And, and you've got a different group of people you're working with. And in this case, in the Pentagon with a lot of senior civilian folks that work for you that, you know, are cut from different cloth. And, and so I got frustrated because something wasn't moving like I wanted to. And I, I let that frustration show in a way that in past commands would not have been a big deal, but in this environment was a big deal to this person. And, and then I started. And of course, you know, they don't confront you because, you know, you're, you know, who you are. But I started hearing through and I listened through many sources that, that this person was really upset. It really hurt them, uh, and they were concerned and, uh, and, and talking, you know, and, uh, and stuff about that. And so, hey, you know what, they didn't deserve that. They were a hard-working professional, um, that did not need me to vent frustration towards them, um, on that. And so, uh, what I did— and I was fairly new too, so that concerned me as well— I did not have a long track record with, you know, this group of folks, uh, on that, that, oh, you might just be having a bad day kind of thing. So I, uh, first of all, I, I talked to that person and apologized, uh, you know, very sincerely that they did not deserve this, that this was a bad day for me, that, uh, I, you know, that I should not allow this to happen, this kind of thing, uh, and then I pulled the entire team together and and did the same thing. Didn't mention who the person was, but apologized, said, look, my job is actually to make your job easier and to break down barriers for you, not to make your job harder. And that's what I did in this instance, and I will strive to do better for you. And so, you know, that bought me credibility. It was true, it was sincere, it was true to myself. I felt terrible about it, but I corrected for it early. And self-evaluated with humility that I made a mistake and I need to own up to it. And people respect you for it and you kill the bad vibe that's going on and you do make yourself better.

Wow, that is very powerful. Okay, it looks like I need to be watching time.

I think we have about 5 minutes left.

But who do you know, sir, that we should know?

Who are some of your thought leaders?

Yeah, you know, I thought about that too, and, uh, you know, I'm not going to name a particular person because it's really diverse. I think the best thing I could tell you is that, uh, thought leaders should be— I approach it at least like, uh, like, uh, your financial portfolio. Diversity is the key here. Uh, I think, again, strategic thinking is seeing things from multiple perspectives, being empathetic to multiple opinions and viewpoints and the way they approach it. At the, at the highest levels of industry, uh, the Pentagon, whatever, you have multiple services, communities, perspectives, priorities, all trying to come together. In case of the Pentagon, a budget and a policy. And you've got to be able to work through those and find the best solution in a, in a, you know, a good manner and be able to have a conversation with the same people the next day. So So diversity of thought leaders, I think, is probably very critical.

Very good. Then let me ask you this also.

If you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, who would you choose and why?

They could be dead, alive, or mythical people.

Yeah, I don't have a great answer for that one either, I don't think. But I will tell you this, I'll circle back to maybe a couple of other books that I'm reading, which these would be great people to have dinner with. Uh, there was a book I read several years ago called Dear General, and, uh, yeah, I came upon it at the Gettysburg Eisenhower gift shop. And, uh, and that book is, uh, that is every letter that General Eisenhower wrote to his boss, General Marshall, during World War II. Wow. And it is amazing because it— and he wrote 3 or 4 letters a day—

a week.

Because there was no email. And it showed how a senior officer dealt with their boss. And he was very honest and he was forecasting where he, what he was thinking. And he expressed doubt when he had doubt. He said when he was tired, he said when he was worried, he said where he had concerns and then he offered solutions and he got feedback. And so it was extremely educational on that. So, Yeah, Eisenhower would be a great guy to have dinner with on there. And then I would say certainly, of course, I've met him and everything, but any book from Colin Powell on leadership is a great one. Yeah, he just— he has some really, really good way to talk about key leadership techniques on there. And all the books kind of talk the same. Same leadership things. So that one's great. And then the last one, just because something neat happened yesterday, there's a— one of my favorite movies is the movie Rudy, about the young kid that dreamed, didn't come— came from a family that wasn't of means or education, dreamed to play football for Notre Dame, and, uh, and, and had a long path to make it there. I bring that up, we all have our own Rudy story, but I got to talk to Rudy Rudeker just yesterday. A guy who works for us here at the company actually has known him since 2001, so he just called him up on the phone and we got to chat, and we're gonna bring him in as a motivational speaker. So, uh, so pretty awesome.

Okay, so you've already mentioned, uh, this book, The Eyes of Morgan, and also the, uh, The Art General. Maybe you can talk a little bit about this one, Poorly Made in China.

Yeah, that one's not inspirational, that one's educational. And it really, it was floating around a lot of leadership in the Pentagon about 5, 6 years ago. And it really helps to understand the Chinese culture and the way of thinking. And because cultures think in different ways. And so it's really about— it's actually about the shampoo business, uh, and it's about a, um, kind of a, a, a company rep, Western company rep in China that's connecting U.S. company or Western companies with Chinese companies for the manufacturing of shampoo and other products as China was really raising— rising in manufacturing. And what you come from it is that culturally the Chinese, um, generally think in terms of the negotiating really starts after the contract is signed. And so they'd sign the contract and then changes would occur and things like that. And that's looked at as extremely wrong from the West, but it's a cultural technique that they do. And understanding those cultures are important, right?

So especially for the most senior uniformed acquisition professional in the World.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Although we didn't make many contracts with China, but yeah. Wow.

All right, so we are running out of time. I'm going to go really fast. Uh, if you had one day and only one day to live, what would you have like your final contribution to be, sir?

Yeah, I think, uh, you know, those are pretty heady, heady questions on there. I think, uh, like I said, um, you know, um, I pray for health, happiness, and fulfillment And also humility I've added over the years on that. And so I think, you know, if I was a good husband and a good mentor and tried to do my best and made a difference in whatever field that I pursued, then I think that's a pretty good legacy.

Very good.

And when you wake up in the morning, what is one problem you would like to solve?

How can I get more sleep?

That's a good one.

Yeah, no, I think that's really where the happiness side comes in, right? So, you know, and I think that's again in a self-assessment side. Do you wake up in the morning? I mean, look, everybody wakes up and is like, I'd rather stay in bed. And, you know, but, but hey, if you wake up in the morning, you're excited about that day and you're excited about going to work, you know, then, then you're doing the right stuff. And I think that's something that we all ought to evaluate because we can control our happiness day in and day out, how we approach the day.

Very insightful, very mindful of the time. So we are coming to the end now. How can we add value back to you, sir?

You've been so, so generous with your time. How could we make a difference?

I think just— I just hope that I've provided value to your listeners. You know, we were talking before we came on that as we get older, the, uh, the opportunity to give back becomes more and more important to us. And, uh, you know, I've, uh, over the years, uh, gathered a, uh, a wide net of young professionals that, uh, that I try to mentor and stay in touch with. And, uh, and so I think, uh, you know, it's, uh, you know, part of society is passing on lessons and experience from generation to generation. So I would just hope that your viewers take some of this on, what they like, and, uh, and what they don't like, that's fine too, and be successful in their own pursuits.

Well, I would add, please follow Admiral Morley on LinkedIn, please.

Frank-Morley.

Okay. All right. And, uh, I guess, uh, is there a question I should have asked you, sir, that I didn't get a chance to ask for this episode?

Oh, is there a question you didn't get a chance—

I'm sorry, uh, I was waiting for the big whopper question to, uh, yeah, yes, it is coming right after that, but first I want to make sure you don't have anything.

No, I think, I think we covered it pretty well. I think we're pretty good.

So very good. All right, now to the most important question of this podcast: if you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year old self, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, sir, what would you say to 17-year-old Frank Muller?

A couple things. One, I would say, um, don't, don't undersell yourself. Um, you know, I, I came, uh, up and, you know, I was, you know, it took me a while to gain some self-confidence. I mean, I was confident, but, you know, I didn't, you know, I didn't think that an Ivy League school or anything like that, or the Uh, Naval Academy would be something, you know, can I compete in that? Could I do that? Um, you know, so I, I didn't push myself, uh, in the next challenge, uh, even though I was qualified, I did well in school, I did all that stuff. But, you know, I, I limited myself a little bit because I was concerned on whether or not I would be competitive on that. And so, you know, I learned at some point later in life that, uh Hey, actually, you know, I'm just about as good as anybody else, I think. I mean, I'm not— there's a lot of people better, but I got a shot just like anybody else. And so if I don't go for it, you know, then I'm losing an opportunity. But that, that took me a little longer in life to fully appreciate. So I'd certainly taught myself that. And then the second thing would be to really embrace reading earlier. I, you know, I read a lot for school., and that was about it. Uh, and then, you know, I read through flight school for flight school, and I read, you know, for test pilot school. But I remember the most impactful book of my life was— it was after test pilot school, as I had a little time— and, and there's a book called The Nightingale Song. And, uh, that book is about 5 Naval Academy graduates, uh, 3 from, uh, one class, 2 from another and how their lives intersected later in life. They were all, you know, it was McCain and McFarland and Ollie North and Webb and, you know, these folks. So, um, but what it did for me, I got in just— I was just amazed by reading the story, reading the story of their life, reading their challenges. So then I started reading autobiographies. I read Colin Powell's autobiography, then I read Norman Schwarzkopf's autobiography, and then that got me hooked on reading, and then it bloomed from there. But that was, you know, I was, you know, 28 years old when that, you know, happened. And if I was 17 and that happened, that would have been better.

Oh, all right, sir, we are going to take this climb down. We are at the very, very end. 3 adjectives that describe you as a child.

As a child? Curious. Studied hard and— One more. Fun. Fun.

One more.

Very good.

What about as an adult?

Curious, works hard, and fun.

Okay, pretty much the same person. All right, we've come to the very end, sir. Thank you so much for your time. Sorry we went over a little bit, but what is one word, one last word word, sir, that represents our shared experience in this podcast today?

What was—

I think, uh, um, uh, I'll give you a couple words, but, uh, sharing of knowledge. Very good.

You are an admiral, you can do whatever you want. So for me, it's grateful. Thank you so much, sir.

I am so grateful you took the time to be here, and, uh, the audience is so, so grateful, uh, for, for you taking the time to share your wisdom.

Thanks, everybody. Appreciate it. Best of luck.

Thank you.

All right, guys, I've checked on YouTube and LinkedIn. I didn't see any question, but, uh, you are going to watch the replay right after we are done here.

And even during the replay, if you have any question, please type it in the comment. And thanks again for being with us.

And tomorrow is going to be Friday, Friday morning, I think around 6:30 AM.

I'm gonna be back here, California time, 9:30 DC, New York Times. And I'm going to have a 10-minute AI recap of our leadership conversation today. So the Admiral will not be here, but I'm gonna give you in 10 minutes what we talked about for over an hour today.

So thanks again for being with us. And again, let us know in the comment what are your free takeaway, and most importantly, one insight you are gonna be able to put in practice today.

Like this week that you learned from Admiral Morley. And again, very, very grateful for his time with us today.

All right.

See you.

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.