S4:E81 🎙️LIVE with CAPT (SEL) Desmond Walker, USN (Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession. Including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, this podcast is for you. His mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to positively impact the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast. You will think that the waterfront, the deck plate, is the only thing that the Navy is until you go to the Pentagon or go to an operations staff like a numbered fleet command or something like that and get that wide, wider exposure, understanding that the Navy is just one part of the military approach for our type of government. It's that expansive, and the Pentagon is one of the best places to get that exposure.

All right, everyone, uh, thank you so much for being here. And I know there is quite a few of you out there watching live. I'm very grateful that you are here, and, uh, this show I think is going to be, uh, very beneficial to you. I have a very special guest. You already know who it is. I'm gonna introduce him in just a second. But before we get started, let's have less than a minute to have our moment of gratitude. I always like to start the show by thinking about one thing that you are grateful for today. So for those who can, close your eyes, put yourself in your happy place, maybe take a deep breath and think about what is one thing that you are grateful grateful for today. This morning I said I was really grateful for networking, collaboration, and meeting new people. I think I've really never met a human being that I wasn't friends with, right? I've never met a stranger in my life. And I think connection and networking has really helped me be who I am today and get to where I am today. Just meeting people who add value to your life, and then you add value back to their life. So if you can type in the comment that one thing that you are grateful for today, I would very much appreciate that. And also, let us know where you are coming from, what city, what state, and if outside of the US, what country. And if you have a question for Captain Select Walker, please type it in the comment as well. So let me do my best to introduce Captain Select Walker. So, uh, his journey started from enlisted sailor to commanding officer, uh, just like me, but now he's Captain Select and packed with lessons on resilience, mentorship, inclusion, excellence, and you really do not want to miss this. We're going to be talking, uh, about going from deck plate to command, resilience in the face of failure, building resilient team, the power of writing and speaking up, mentorship, coaching, and leadership mentors at class. So without any further ado, let me bring to you, ladies and gentlemen, the one and only Captain Desmond Walker. All right, Des, how are you doing today?

I'm doing well, BZ. Good to see you.

Fantastic. I am so glad you're here. I know we've been planning this for at least a few weeks, weeks now. I'm really glad you are here and It is really wonderful to see people like you in the US Navy, still the best Navy in the world, the most powerful Navy in the world, starting at the very bottom and going all the way to the top. So I hope to see one star on your shoulder very, very soon. But it's just incredible. Actually, from the teaser I played, you were on another podcast, you were saying how for some people all they see is the blue Navy. But actually, in my experience, because I spent most of my time in the reserve, maybe 4 or 5 years on active duty, but everything else in the reserve. I have actually met sailors, believe it or not, who've never been on a ship. Never. Their entire career, 20 years in the Navy, it's been shore duty only. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, right? But, uh, it just shows how, uh, big, huge the Navy is. What is it, more than 400,000, uh, employees?

Yeah, if you count civilians Yeah, absolutely. Defense contractors, absolutely.

It's really, really, really crazy. But anyway, we're going to get into all of that. I guess the first question for you is, what is one thing that you are grateful for today?

I'm grateful for just being invited to your podcast. You know, it's very rare to have an opportunity to share thoughts and ideas with others. And I'm a big person that believes in iron sharpens iron. And I've been paying attention to you as well. We connected socially years ago, and I continue to follow your content as well. And so to me, I'm just grateful for this opportunity to be with you this evening.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Metu. It is really a great, great honor. What is something about you that most people may not know about?

Oh, that's a good question. Probably how— probably how laid back I am. I'm a high-energy guy when it comes to performance, whether it's physical, mental, things like that. But I keep it simple. I like playing PlayStation 5. I mean, I cheered, I celebrated myself when I completed the last God of War game, God of War Ragnarok. I like to play sports. I enjoy time with my family. And so I'm a very simple, simple guy when it comes to that.

Wow, that is wonderful, wonderful to know. Can you tell us about your leadership journey going from enlisted to now Captain Select in the most powerful Navy in the world?

Man, uh, 29 years is a long time, but it goes by very quickly, I tell you that. Um, I know I was on leave, uh, after Command, and I was able to let my beard grow out a little bit, and I didn't realize how much gray hair I had until it grew out. Um, and but what I would tell you is, is because I've tried to do the best I can at every level, um, the— my whole career has been very rewarding and very challenging at the same time, which I continue to appreciate to this day.

Well, that is quite powerful. When you were enlisted, which boot camp did you go to? I went to RTC Great Mistake. I mean, Great Lakes. Where?

I went to Great Lakes as well. They were phasing out Orlando, I think. 96356 all day.

Oh my goodness. So you remember going under that bridge? I think when I went to boot camp, the first 2 days we didn't sleep, maybe 1 or 2 hours. That's it. It was the worst day of my life. But after that, it was the best days of my life too. I still have friends today that I met more than 20 years ago. It's just amazing.

Same here. Same here. Almost 30 years ago, I had lunch a few months— well, not lunch, but I met with one of my boot camp shipmates a few months ago. Yes, East of the Navy. He's still connected to the military as well through the reserves. And he come when his job brings him to the area.

Yeah.

Uh, he at least reaches out and say, hey, I'm here, uh, if we can connect, let's do it.

So yeah, that is, that is really amazing because back then I used to have a pretty big afro. I remember the Navy cut all of my hair, I was so sad. And, uh, then, you know, of course they issue you the uniform and everything else, but, uh, yeah, it was quite, quite an experience. So it looks like, uh, you began your life in, uh, uh, Ole Miss, right? I didn't say Mississippi, I said Mississippi. That's because I'm—

Mississippi, that's what it is.

15 years in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. So I know you guys very well. We used to say thank God for Mississippi because without you guys Alabama would be the last state in the Union. But, uh, anyway, you're competing for last. Yeah, but of course also we, we play with Mississippi State all the time, but in the whole time, yesterday Coach's football is like God over there.

But anyway, I almost ended up at Mississippi State too. I almost ended up at Mississippi State instead of the Navy, for sure.

That is really amazing. So you began your career as an enlisted sailor like me before commissioning full. You went through the Seaman to Admiral 21 program. How did you— those early experiences shape the leader you are today?

Um, well, I would say the enlisted experience— I spent almost 9 years enlisted if you count my time in the ROTC, which the State Tournament program allowed you to do. For a period of time. The, the best part about it was the leadership I had on the deck plate. I can tell you, I have always celebrated a leader, in particular my LPO at the time, Patrick Jones. He was— when I was ETSC and ET3 Walker, he would show me the ropes and maintenance and stuff like that. And then it's like, hey, we're gonna make you the supply PO. And then, you know, a few months go by, uh, continue to do well. Hey, we're going to make you the works in a supervisor. And for me, you know, I didn't think anything about it. Like, okay, well, hey, uh, the, the— my division likes me, I'm doing, I'm doing pretty well and continuing to perform, uh, and it just grew from there. And so by the time I— by the time, let me see, yeah, 2000 We deployed in 2000. That was my second deployment. We deployed in '98 and deployed in 2000. By the end of that second deployment, I was now ET2 SW AW Walker and assistant LPO in the division and kind of a leader amongst our division of like, I think it was maybe 18 people. But even then, that was still just trying to do the best job we can. And accomplish the mission, that was a very defining experience for sure.

That is really amazing. I tell people who don't know much about the military, in my opinion, the Navy, the military as a whole, I'm sure the Army, the Air Force does the same thing, we are really a leadership organization who just happen to have a bunch of hardware around. Because even when I was a seaman recruit, the lowest rank in the entire military, you have to salute almost everything that moves. Even then, the Navy was teaching me to become a leader of men. And that was just amazing, like within your unit and taking initiative and all of that. So coming from, uh, Olandale, Mississippi, what drove you to pursue the Navy? And what lesson from your upbringing still guides you in command today?

Yeah, I would say nothing drove me. That's where I would start. Um, I was attending the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science in Columbus, Mississippi, which is right down the street from Starkville, where Mississippi State is. And honestly, we had the— I think a recruiter came to the campus one day, and the instructors were like, hey, we got class, but there's a Navy recruiter on campus. So if you want to take this test, you can go to class. I was like, ooh, let me go take this test real quick and get out of class., and did pretty well on it. And then also took a nuclear, they call it a nuclear, I took a nuclear field test as well, passed that as well. Wow. And I just, I liked what it, what the recruiter was saying about an opportunity to work and serve. And that was also too, MSMS was very demanding academically. And not that I was tired, but I did want to do something different. I wasn't a stranger to hard work. And so I ended up doing the late entry program in the Navy shortly after the ASVAB. And so graduated in May and was in boot camp by July because I just decided I wanted to go to the Navy and do something instead of going to college and continuing education, even though the high school experience prepped me for college very well.

That is amazing. So did you consider the few of the Marines or the Air Force?

Or no, the only recruiter came to campus was Navy, so it was Navy, Navy, and nothing.

Pretty cool.

And it was a chance to see the world.

Yeah, that, that is really fascinating because for me, 9/11 was really what, uh, uh, touched me a lot. I wasn't a U.S. citizen at the time, but my wife was, and we had a baby on the way, and I wanted to do something to help protect our way of life. But I talked to everybody, the Army, the Air Force and every other branches. But very, very quickly I found out that the Army and the Marines was not for me. I thought those people are just killers, right? They don't really use much of their brain. At least that's what I thought at the time. I'm like Air Force, Navy, yes, those people are really nerds just like I am. We can use our brain and really do a lot of great things for this nation. But of course, I wasn't eligible yet because I didn't have my green card. But anyway, they kept saying no, no, but I kept coming, coming back like the Terminator. I'll be back. So once I got my green card, then I knew for sure that the Navy was the place for me. Now you all degrees in electronic technology engineering management and an MBA too. And I'm wondering, like me as an IP officer in the Navy, they don't care about my MBA at all. I got my MBA for the job I do for Silicon Valley, but they do care about my master of science. Science. But I wonder, does your designator, your community care about MBA?

Or did you just— Well, I would say is that I wouldn't look at it that way. The kind of, let's break it down a little bit. You know, the, the military has some requirements for commissioning officers, which includes a college education. So you got to, you got to start there. Because the purpose of a degree, which we know going to the college experience is really what is about. Getting into critical thinking, problem solving, decision making, all those things, the early leadership, whether it's, you know, the SGA or within your affinity groups and things like that. It's, it's a chance to develop yourself further than what you get in the high school experience. And so you're really validating that. And that's, to me, that's what the college degree, undergrad degree, brings to the commissioned officer. Which is different for the expectations of performance for enlisted— I mean, journeyman enlisted or apprentice enlisted. And so that's where you start. And then after that, you're a naval officer, and now it's what's your community as a naval officer that you're going to continue to grow and develop in. And for me, as a surface warfare officer, nuclear trained, nuclear trained surface warfare officer. The career path for SWO is path to command, and you have division officer experience, department head experience, then executive leadership experience. And as part of professional development, a master's degree and then some joint, you know, professional military education is also a part of that shaping of the leader over time, because it's all based on years commissioned service, you know, um, in our meritocracy. And so the master's— my first master's degree, actually my Master of Engineering Management, was kind of my wicket to show that growth.

You are back. I know exactly where, where you were. Here we go. So we were talking about you. You did the, uh, Engineering Management Master's. That was your weekend. But then you are just an overachiever, don't you? You had to go and do electronic technology and MBA too, which you didn't even need. How do you explain that?

Well, the MBA, because I was working in the Pentagon by that time, it, it kind of just fit. Uh, I was learning about the, the, the military at a macro level, and, um, I just started connecting some dots with some things like, hey, why, how do I professionalize this is military experience. You always got to be thinking about the exit strategy too. And, and so my MBA is actually the emphasis in human resources management. And so, uh, supply chain management, operational analysis, risk analysis, um, all those things just kind of align to what I was already doing. So, hey, let me get a degree, or let me pursue a degree, um, that would kind of, uh, expand on the experience I was getting in real time.

Yeah, that is really wonderful. And for the junior officers who are listening to us now, I think in the Navy you really get a whole bunch of opportunities, but it's not just gonna fall on your lap, right? You have to do something to actually take advantage of those. Like me, one opportunity I use— everybody has to do the JPEMA once you're a lieutenant— I use that for an actual master's. So I got a Master of Science in Management and Naval Operations because of the relationship between the Naval War College and University of Maryland. So there are really a whole lot of opportunities out there, schools you can go to for free, and of course the Navy is going to pay for everything, but you do, you do need to take the initiative. And I must tell you this, the MBA is definitely extremely important once you leave the Navy and you go into the industry. That is, that is huge. That's the only reason why I got the MBA, because when I was in Silicon Valley, those people, uh, it was very— they sound like the military, right? So they, they don't really just, you know, obey orders, jump when you say jump. So I had to speak business language in, in order to be able to influence them. And MBA was, was my way to, um, do that. So all of this education you've had outside of the Navy, how does that influence your approach to leadership and decision making?

It was directly connected. Um, like I said, in the Pentagon Learning how, you know, that part of government works, um, understand the Navy as a corporation, um, like I said, the hundreds of thousands of employees, um, trying to understand the different echelons and looking at the parallels with what I learned through the MBA translated directly. Then once I got back to the waterfront, back to the fleet with the sailors, um, the ability to translate or take something that's being put out by the Chief Naval Operations or by a fleet commander. And the first question is, what does that mean to me? I just want to do my maintenance and go home, right? And so, you know, the ET3 in me tried to always remember, hey, when these PDFs and, you know, these nav admins and, um, even the shout out to the CNO with the current CNOTs that I've been hearing about great things, uh, from my, from the friends and circles I'm in about the CNOTs and how, um, they're resonating. That's what it was about, is taking what's being put out and translating it to give the so what to the junior sailors and to your senior leadership under your charge.

That is really great. And as you know, there are many paths to commissioning and command. Do you think it was a great advantage for you of having been enlisted prior to becoming a commanding officer? Officer?

Yeah, I would say it's, it's an advantage. I mean, it's not— it's nothing against, um, the traditional path because that's where majority of our officers come from, through the academy, and then, uh, supplemented with ROTC and, um, Officer Candidate School. And so, but it— for what I want to do, what kind of leader I wanted to be, um, it definitely gives me better understanding and appreciation. You have to work as hard as a leader to try to empathize and sympathize with what enlisted soldiers are going through. And so it would probably enter into my calculus for decision-making earlier, whereas someone that is not prior enlisted, which I have no doubt our leaders can care about the impacts to their team. But if that perspective is just earlier in the calculus for decision-making, just makes for better decision-making, um, if you have that background.

Yes. And, and I think for me specifically, I think one big difference between, you know, our military and military from most other countries, they don't really have the senior enlisted rank like the, the chiefs. In my opinion, chiefs, they really do run the Navy. And when I was enlisted, I saw how they took care of me, right, as they could. And I, I really never lost that. But basically, even when you are a junior officer, chiefs still mentor you, or one or two or three, even at, uh, or four. Is that kind of change the interaction you, you had with your SEL or SEA once you become a commanding officer? Just the, I guess, the relationship between you, your XO, and yourself.

They try it, they kind of talk about the triad relationship. Well, first thing I would say is, even though I did not go through the Chief's Mess as part of my journey, I'm one of the biggest advocates and critics of the Chief's Mess. I hold them in such a high regard because of what they bring to the table. It, it means something when the Chief walks in the room. And, and I have no problem holding that accountable. Um, and another way I think about it too is, um, if you have— if you have a commanding officer, um, that looks like they don't appreciate the, the chief's mess or don't appreciate the enlisted, ask yourself what kind of chief that officer had when they were a division officer, right? And so, um, that's why during my command tour, even as an XO as well, when I was trying to learn the ropes on and thinking through how do I support my CEO, how do I work with the master chief to support the CO. And how do I, um, support the CO by, uh, keeping the ship, um, running? Um, the chief's mess, the divo and the chief, is, is where I zeroed in a lot. Um, if you look at it, obviously I can only speak to, uh, ships.

Yes.

Um, but when you go back and look at the SOARM, uh, OPNAV Instruction 3120.32, the, the, the division officer, the chief, um, that administrative chain of command sets the tone for everything. You know, there is worksite supervisor, LPO, yes, LCPO, division officer, department head, captain. That's your framework, that's your, that's your ladder that upon which you're your fishbone. You then can layer every other primary cloud of duty on top of. And I just held, and I held firm to those expectations, you know, whereas the divo and the chief are two sides of the same coin. The officer is a commissioned officer. And so you must respect that, that level of accountability and authority. Whereas the chief may have the most— have more Navy or naval or leadership experience, they're still subject to that, to the, to the orders of that commissioned officer. And it just translates up at the department, department head level, um, or the department level and at the command level. And so, um, by the time I got in command, um, I celebrate all my accomplishments, um, in concert with my chief head officer, Master Chief, uh, Earl Ashley. Um, I'm not a successful CO without him. I'm not a successful CO without that chief's mess, uh, taking on board what I was trying to do, the vision I was trying to communicate and the missions that I set as priorities for us to be successful.

Wow, that is really, really powerful. And by the way, we got an hello from Stephanie Easter from Clinton, Maryland. Ryan Gates from San Diego. And Deborah says, I think she served with you on the Stennis, which is pretty cool, coming from Kansas. Eric Wim from Millington, Tennessee. And then also we've got Marco from San Diego. Thank you so much everyone for being here. If you have a question for Captain Walker, please type it in the, uh, comments. We're going to make sure to get through it. Now for the junior officers who are watching, those are really the people this podcast is for. I podcast every single day, I write a leadership article every single day for aspiring leaders in the military and the, uh, uh, high-tech here in Silicon Valley. What advice would you give them about balancing operational demand with pursuing higher education, especially those who are deployed or on active duty?

Well, I would say there is— I would be honestly— I would honestly tell you that I don't think there is a balance. I think there is a what do you want and when do you want it kind of thing. And then you'll prioritize your level of effort and then put your energy and time where you want it to be. And so, like I said, when I worked on my first master's degree, I started while I was on shore duty and finished just about like halfway through my department head pipeline. But then I reevaluated my career management after I checked into my first department head tour and realized, hey, my MPS peers or my peers that graduated from postgraduate school as division officers and as department head, they had JPME 1 and I didn't. And so guess what I was doing as ops for the first 8 months? I was working on my JPME 1 to make sure I remain competitive, to ensure that I at least had the same things that they did from a, from a notional perspective. Because I always wanted to be— wanted to make sure that I was as competitive as I could. So that performance really was the difference maker, and not that I was missing something that was already expected.

That is really fascinating. So as a first-time CEO, commanding officer of the USS Stout, right? DDG 55. What was the most challenging leadership decision you had to make and what did you learn from it?

See, there you go. You got me making decisions. I'm not in command anymore. I don't appreciate that question at all. Out of 700-some days in command, which one was the most challenging? How about all of them?

Yes. Yes. But, um, I'm sure you reached out to some of your mentors, right?

Oh man, the group chats and the emails was— and the phone calls was flying the whole time. Um, the, um, I'd say probably, probably most— I would see probably a, a challenging decision, um, was, uh, probably towards the— we were, we were trying to finished a lot of training certifications just before deployment. And it required a few weeks of early days and late nights for all of us in some capacity to meet all those requirements. And, but we got through it, we did it well. Our results resonated with the assessors. And it ended up being very foundational for first showing that we proved ourselves how resilient we can be when we really had to. And we can— and that was able to be carried forward to the posture we set for deployment from a toughness and resiliency perspective.

That is really amazing. So let me ask you, probably my last question before we go to the second segment. Time is running out so quickly. But how did you build a culture of trust, inclusion, and resilience on board during such a demanding tour?

Well, you know, it's, it's, it started from day one, you know.

Oh, and also, before you answer, another thing I think people may not realize, especially in the Navy— I don't think they do that in the Army and the Air Force— really, to us, when you get in command, it's the highest level of trust the Navy can ever give anyone, because it's not like you have an— well, I guess you, you do have a, a ASIC, right? But they are far, far away. It's not like they look over your shoulder, especially at sea. You make all of the decisions. Basically, no, you are pretty much God at sea, or command by negation. You know what the vision is, the mission is for your ship, but then you make up all of the decisions, and ultimately you are responsible for everything. So I don't think the other services, they really get a sense of what that is. That is like knowing all of that again, how did you build that culture of inclusion and resilience and how did you do it?

Yeah, so, you know, started with understanding a few things about chain of command, expectations of performance, you know, at the deck plate level, the chief's mess wardroom, and understanding what each billet brought to the table. I leveraged something one of my mentors told me. About roles and functions. And that's what I wanted to do was define the roles and articulate the functions so that we could be a very, you know, a matrix team because I needed people to be able to move without talking directly to me. And so that first started with the triad understanding their role, my CMC as the senior enlisted advisor, and, you know, making sure that decisions, consider the impact to the sailor when I'm going to do something. And then my XO understanding, be where I'm not kind of mindset. And then the department heads empowering them through word and deed that they're there to run the ship. I had been through department school, I had been a department head, and I understood that those department heads show up at They are showing up at their highest level of technical level of knowledge from an equipment, from a people perspective, from a tactics perspective. And so I let those horses run, give them, give them the left and right limits, and then let them work together as a team, kind of like mid-level management. And then the Chief's Mess, again, get— making sure that they understood what the priorities were. Because I was— I found it helpful to ensure that they knew, um, what was important, what the priorities were. Because to me, this is where— this is where division officers come into play as well in managing their time. Uh, the decision— know what your requirements are so that when you decide to do something, you also know what you're deciding to not do, you know. Um, you might have 50 things to do, but if 1 and 5 and 7 and 23 aren't aligned to what the CEO needs over the next 2 weeks, then push those to the side and start working on number 24 and start working on 2 and, and 17, because those are lines of things that have to happen for us, for us as a crew in the next, you know, 24, 48 hours. And so baseline that and then started getting after celebrating the wins, um, no matter how small of an achievement we did as a team, uh, making sure that the crew understood that I, I could see them, I see them performing and, and value that. And then just built on it from there. You, once you build a record of performance, um, uh, things can happen. You look at like Golden State or the Chicago Bulls, you know, that's, that's 82 seasons, 82 games, a very long season. You know, you don't just luck up into the NBA Finals. You don't just look up and win multiple championships. You know, there's some team chemistry, there's some, there's some organic things that happen. Um, some of it starts from the top, but some of it has to start and flourish from within. That's in it. We want— I wanted to create that environment, um, of performance and then let the team, uh, run with that.

That is really, really Powerful. What are some of your leadership mantras? I had two primary mantras. Actually, I just stole it from my best CEOs when I became a CEO. Number one was mission first, people always, because you have to do the mission no matter what, but definitely take care of your people. And then one team, one fight. What, what were some of your—

yeah, I had three, I had three levels, um, starting with my philosophy, uh, it was It was define the standard, own the standard, become the standard. You know, take the time to learn what the requirement is. Don't just, you know, brush over, oh, I have to do this checklist. No, what is the requirement? What is it? Where is that governing instruction for that, um, that standard? And then owning the standard. Okay, you works on the supervisor, you junior sailor, you first class, you chief, You need to own that standard, is make it a part of what you're doing every single day. And then when you become the standard, now your behaviors, your actions are now representative of what the standard is. And look, a lot of times you get caught up in standards are changing. No, standards aren't changing. Just how you're executing, how you're preparing is what— is what's different. And you know, sometimes people relax the standards, you know, but then sometimes people enforce the standards. And I wanted to make sure more times than not we were enforcing standards, uh, creating that, that, uh, culture of excellence. Then, uh, from a philosophy— that was the command philosophy. Then going into kind of the behavior stuff, um, I had my 5 Ps: programs, policies, procedures, and processes are how we take care of our people. Follow the standards, do the paperwork on— do your paperwork on time to make sure you get paid. Do your maintenance on time so that you can order new parts if it breaks me during maintenance. All those things come into play. And then I follow that up with the final mindset. You said program, policy, procedure, programs, procedures, policies, and processes. Okay, that's how we take care of our people.

Oh, people. Yeah, got it. Yes. Yep.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And then, then the, the, the kind of the, the, the drum, the daily drumbeat was then the, um, mindset, attention to detail, um, shoot, attention to detail. Ah, what was the other one? Oh, I got my book right here. Let me see. Attention to detail, questioning attitude, and be a team player. That's what I expected from everybody every single day, whether you were in E3 or O4.

That is, that is, that is powerful. I remember, uh, again, going back to boot camp, you know, failure to follow instructions. That's really where I learned not only to have the macro vision, what we're doing and where we're going, but also the, uh, you know, microvision what is happening right here to my right and to my left. That is wonderful. Okay, I could be speaking with you forever. I'm gonna need to land that plane soon. So before—

How much time do you need? I'm here as long as you need me.

Thank you so much. Before we go to the second segment, I do want to ask you this about your LinkedIn banner, this one here. Can you tell me about this? What is the significance of this LinkedIn banner, especially in the middle here?

Yeah, so, good friend of mine, CJG Asante McCullough, I met him as Ensign McCullough when I was stationed in San Diego, California. And SWO trainee asked me to be his mentor, along with, you know, some other junior officers, and just wanted to be a part of his life in any way that he needed me to as he worked through the standard SWO progression from checking to see his ship within, you know, so many number of months, you want to qualify to serve as a warfare officer so you can continue to move forward. And he reached out to me and a couple of other— basically one of our small mentorship circles and has shared frustrations with his inability to qualify to serve as a warfare officer. And, you know, typical questions. Hey, let's get you some extra help. Let's connect some dots with some different things and help you get ready. And that was it. It was just like a Friday evening phone call, whatever. And then 2 weeks, about 2 weeks later, I was reading Navy Times article, and he was lost at sea. And I was just heartbroken. Because, yeah, I didn't know a lot of circumstances around his struggles, but I do know that he was one of the kindest, most positive people I ever met. And to lose his life like that, just, it shook me. And so this is when I was in my department head kind of period of time. And so I spent a lot of time thinking about, you know, what were some— what are some of the things that could have contributed to how his life ended. And so by the time I, uh, got to my prospective executive officer training pipeline, because for SWOs is you do XOCO fleet up, so you know what you're doing for the next 3 years when you start up, so to, to help me have a center. When I got into stressful situations or into challenging, into challenging environments. I had that bracelet made that was in the center of that photograph for, to, and I wore that, I wore that bracelet from the first day of my XO training pipeline until my last day of command. So that's roughly about 3 and a half years. I only took it off for safety reasons. I've had to put my hand in an electrical switchboard or something, but I always wore that. And I had my family's name on the inside as well. But I wore that as a visual reminder of the impact that I could have on every single person that came within contact. And I just wanted to value that and pay respect to what I know his, um, goal was, um, in Navy, which was to qualify as a Surface Warfare Officer.

Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. I do appreciate it. I hope that you never had a sailor report directly to you, uh, lost at sea or died during your— okay, I, I only had one. I think it was in 2019. I was a division officer on the USS Essex, and one of the sailors in my division they got a letter from, I think it was his wife or his girlfriend who decided to not be with him anymore. He really got anxious and then he decided to just jump overboard. We did find his body, but his skin turned from white to like purple. I mean, even today I still have nightmares about it. But that's one thing I guess in the military, very, very different from the industry, right? Nobody at Microsoft or Google or Meta is going to give their life for me, and really almost zero chance of someone dying. But in the military, unfortunately, that does happen, and it's a risk that we all take when we wear this uniform. But again, knock on wood, no, we don't lose any soldiers, because each, each person that you lose, it's not just that person, but it's their family. They have children, their parents. It's, it's, it's really, uh, it can be very, very be, uh, tragic. And, uh, absolutely. Again, thanks again for— so it's okay, let's, let's switch over to the second half of the, uh, uh, podcast where we really focus on leadership. One of my first question is, uh, what do you think is the greatest lesson you have ever learned?

Man, greatest lesson I have ever learned, um, probably Don't take yourself too seriously. The not getting too high, not getting too low, trying to maintain an even keel. And I've had some frustrating times over the course of my career. But by the time I got to my command tour, I was comfortable with the crises because there were several times where, you know, things are going on and then everybody stops and looks at you.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, how do you respond in those moments can be a difference maker in how the crew moves forward. And so I was blessed to have a— like I said, I was blessed to have a tough and resilient crew. And I just wanted to make sure that I emulated that as well and make sure it wasn't just lip service. And so I try to do that to the best of my ability. And that started when I take myself too seriously. Another way I'll call it, I call it humble confidence. Like, I believe in myself absolutely, you know, um, but I'm humble enough to know that I don't have all the answers. And so I leaned on my team a lot. I know how to ask questions, you know, um, but, uh, I didn't consider myself the smartest person in the room in every conversation.

Wow, that is powerful. I'm going to ask you another question. I know you're going to mention this book, The Golden 13. I've read it at least a couple of times.

I have that book as well.

Yeah, foreword by the one and only General Colin L. Powell, one of my personal heroes. So Blacks in America, they didn't become becoming officer until 1944. So it's not that, that long ago. You, a Black kid from Mississippi, going from enlisted to now captain select in the most powerful Navy in the world. You've got to tell us, What is the secret of your success?

Um, well, I would start with it kind of piggybacking off that, not taking myself too seriously. Um, I'm, I'm still just an old country boy of Mississippi at heart, and so I, I know what it's like to work hard. I chopped cotton, you know, every summer in, you know, from like age 10 to age 15. That's what you did, you know, make $30 a day. Um, you know, chopping cotton. And so, um, by the time I got to the military, uh, work ethic was just, okay, what's the next thing I need to do? Um, and so what was the question again though?

So, uh, the secret to your success?

Yeah, seriously. So it was, it was just, it's been, it's been staying true to that, the, the work ethic piece. It's funny, I was talking to my wife yesterday. I, I was trying to pay somebody to trim the trees in the yard. And I was just like, after I got the estimate, I was like, just get this saw. I'm going to cut these limbs real quick.

That is powerful.

So that's what it has been for me.

Yeah, I know there is this saying you say all the time. I think I had it in the flyer about grinding and repeat, which is really cool.

So yeah, uh, yeah, wake up, grind, sleep, repeat. That's— I'm, I'm living proof. That's what I do.

That is really something, because sometimes, again, you may not be the most intelligent one in the bunch, but I can pretty much outwork anybody there. Wake up early, be there early, stay there late, and keep doing it consistently, and eventually you will outpace, uh, the competition. So that's very powerful. So what about, um Leadership advice. What is the greatest leadership advice you have ever received?

Oh, this is a, uh, leadership advice, um, one of my mentors, he's now retired Rear Admiral, uh, Jesse Wilson. I met him maybe 11 years ago at a professional development conference, and, uh, he said, bloom where you're planted. And that's what I've tried to do Um, and I mean, I've had a— I've been reslated in every position I've had in the Navy, going all the way back to my first, uh, department head tour. I got some orders for a thing and then it was changed, and that's happened every time through my, uh, up, up to and including my command tour. And so, um, being— trying to be— trying to control my desk as much as I can through preparation Um, still just whatever opportunity presented itself, uh, I wanted to do the best I could and not question. Once, once the decision is made, all right, there's no more wiggle room, it's time to move forward, all right, let's move forward. And I found that to be very helpful.

That is powerful. Of course, for those who are in the Navy, we usually say Semper Gumby, right? Always be flexible. That is, uh, so key. But also something you said for the—

showing your age with that one though.

That's true. But for the junior officers listening to us now, you just heard what the captain says, right? 11 years ago, he met an admiral and he became his mentor. So one thing I think you really need a lot of initiative if you're going to be successful in this Navy. You have to reach out to people, network with them on LinkedIn, in person, go to conferences and ask them, hey, would you help me? Would you please review my record and give me advice? And I'm going to tell you, 9 times out of 10, every senior officer in this Navy is always going to take time for a junior officer who wants to do better and wants to add more value. Always. I know we are super busy, but we will always make the time for that. Would you agree to that, Des?

Absolutely, absolutely.

And, and also, when you're looking for a mentor, sometimes your mentor can only be another junior officer who's 1 year or 2 years ahead of you, because then they go ahead of you and it's, it's very recent, right? They just went, they just got boarded, they just got selected, so they can tell you what they did or what their secret is. Whereas if you go to, you know, an old guy like, like me or Captain Desirée, we did this but it was like 10 years ago, 7 years ago, and a lot of things have changed in the service since. So I think— I don't know, I don't think in the surface warfare officer community you guys are not required to have an official mentor, right?

It's kind of like, uh, there's there's no formal program, but it's implied all across. You know, your, your CO should be considered your mentor. Like, I know I told all my chiefs and officers, I'm your mentor whether you want it or not.

Very good.

Um, and so I would— I'm— that behavior, the expectations there is just not as formal as it used to be years ago.

Very good. I know in the IP community, especially in the Reserve, it was absolutely formal. I used to be the one who would assign the mentors and the mentees, but yeah, But, but in my opinion, it works best when it's natural, right?

When, uh, absolutely. The more organic, the better, the better. Yeah. And also mentor, your mentors don't have to be in the same designator. I have mentors or I'm mentoring someone in other designators all the time over my career. And then civilians, I'm gonna give a shout out to Ms. Easter who's in the chat right now. She's a mentor as well, but she's a career civilian, um, in the, in, um, Department of Defense. And so, but she brings a perspective. That a uniform person can give me. But when I'm trying to learn the Pentagon and how the Pentagon is relevant to whatever else is going on, he's got a perspective that no naval officer can give me.

That is so true. Wow, that's wonderful. And the other thing I will add about mentorship is they don't always have to outrank you. Sometimes your mentor can be someone who is at a much lower rank too, like Like I said earlier, I've been mentored by CHIPS my entire career, but even as a—

I still talk to CHIPS first classes. Absolutely.

That is wonderful. So as a leader, what are you learning now?

Man, I am learning how to recover.

That's what I'm doing. Yes.

I am learning how to take a knee. But no, seriously though.

I think I probably took 6 months after my end of to when I was commanding officer, because it's a full-time job. There is just no—

Yeah, yeah. But now I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm laying the foundation for, um, my next heavy lift as a reactor officer on a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Um, that's going to be a highly demanding, uh, academic push. Um, and so one, actually, one of, one of my mentors talked to me about technical leadership. There's technical— there's a technical component to being a reactor officer that, you know, everything is going to be on me. But then there's leadership of over 500 people that support that as well. So between the equipment and the people, I got some work ethic to put in and execute to be ready for that next stage. And so—

Wow, that is wonderful. And how has failure shaped your life? I have this little coin I like to show. This side says success and this side says failure. And most people, they only see this. But they don't know what you had to go through in order to achieve everything you've achieved. So how has failure shaped you?

You know, it has definitely informed future decisions, future movements. Over time, I learned to recharacterize it as lessons as opposed to failure. And so through that paradigm, understanding that it's more important to try and fail than to never have tried. That's where I've been. Wow. And so, you know, again, like, prior enlisted guy coming to the officer ranks and the war room and stuff, had to have an OOD board a couple of times, had to have a surface warfare board a couple of times, my prospective nuclear engineering officer exam, Um, I didn't make it the first try, I had to go a second time, which was even harder because they added layers to it to validate, um, your level of knowledge and your understanding of, uh, the information. And so, um, you know, I've got my own version of scars and lumps and trying to press and power through. And so, but again, like I said, if you never get too high, never get too low, then you chalk it up as another lesson to the game and you keep moving forward.

Hmm, let me ask you this. I'm gonna go on a limb. When you went to boot camp, did you know how to swim back then?

No.

Okay, so you're just as crazy as I am. Of all of the branches of the military, I used to swim when I was a kid, but then I got scared of the water. It was psychological, really. I don't know why. Maybe I almost drowned once. But anyway, I didn't swim from the time I was maybe 6 years old to the time I joined the Navy. And then the Navy had to give me a year. They told me Okay, Bob Fabien Zinga, you're going to have to learn how to swim, qualify as a third-class qualified swimmer. But if you don't do it within 12 months, you are out. So then I did everything I had to do to be able to do that. So tell me about that experience.

Well, I'll be real quick too. So in boot camp, I'm a negative buoyancy guy, so swimming was already hard. But by the end of boot camp, I had those dungarees, get that air or water, how them things off real quick. And get my flotation device going. I was treading water like some— put my arms out.

Yes.

And kick and move my arms. Hey, there's a minimum for a reason. And I met it. But it was a lot of effort, a lot of extra time in the pool. And then the same thing for, you know, when I got to the ROTC, I took a swimming class. I had an extra class in my curriculum that wasn't a part of my degree plan, but I took a swimming class. To make sure I can get through those, uh, requirements. Uh, doing what you got to do to, to achieve the goals you want to accomplish.

That is, that is wonderful. I'm really glad I am not the, uh, only one. But, uh, what I ended up learning is I just needed to— we like— did you do that thing? I'm sure you did. What, where you had to jump off 20 feet into the pool and then swim away? Man, that scared me to death. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's really amazing when you go through boot camp, military training, you you get to learn who you are really, I think, as a person. And you get self-confidence like you've never had before because, you know, yes, I couldn't do this before, but now I can, and I can pretty much face anything in the future. Okay, this is great. So, um, what are you reading right now that we should read? What books do you recommend?

Um, let's say, uh, I was reading Power Shift by Damon John. I was— I'm going through that right now. And then my next one, I have this one, Dr. Spear, Wiring the Winning Organization. So I'm going to start trying to start going through that one pretty soon because, you know, as, as organizations evolve and change, The demographics change. You want to try to be informed on what's resonating with, with the workforce. And so that's kind of where I'm at right now.

And I know another book you were going to recommend is The Young Goldens 13, right?

Oh, always.

And then you also had this, this one, Navigating the Seven Seas. Can you tell us a little bit about this?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, Admiral Mel Williams and, uh, his son— I mean, his dad, uh, Master Chief Williams. Um, that was a great book. I read that book back in my divo times, um, because I was trying to navigate the 7 Cs, where he just— a play on the words, the letter C. Um, that was a really good book because when I was trying to find, um, a, a, a, a leadership language, because I It was the, the transition from enlisted to officer was very, was very challenging for me because I had to get out of my own way. Um, I was relying solely on my work ethic, which, which doesn't work in the war zone. Um, the officer corps is definitely a team game. And so that book helped me kind of connect some dots with some stuff to make sure I was being a team player. But it had— I had to figure some stuff out for myself first.

Now, in the pre-recording, you didn't mention this one. Have you read this one, Trailblazer?

No, I haven't read that one.

This one I do highly recommend. Vice Admiral Samuel L. Gravely, the very first African American admiral in the Navy. His life is just amazing.

I mean, I've always looked at his life personally anyway. So yeah, good book.

Outstanding. Okay, who are some of your mentors and Thought leaders, people you know that we should know?

Um, that's an interesting question because now I like drop name dropping.

Maybe people who are already famous.

Let me see. Um, well, I mean, I would tell you a person that resonates very well with me is a hip-hop preacher, um, E.T. Eric Thomas. I think he's great, um, because where— even though his— the same energy output he has is not where I'm at, his message is pretty, pretty specific, which is it starts with you kind of thing. Um, and, um, the ability to hold yourself accountable for what you want out of your life, it starts there.

Extreme Ownership. That's right.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. Wow, that, that is, uh, powerful. So let me ask you this then. If you could choose 3 people, alive, dead, or mythical figure, to have dinner with, who would you choose and why?

Oh man, um, let me see. Um, Probably Martin Luther King Jr. Then the CNO.

And which, which CNO?

It wouldn't matter because it was just whoever, whoever, whoever the CNO is.

Okay.

And then Optimus Prime.

Okay, very good. Now we've got a question from the gang there watching us live. So Eric Wynn says, "Desh, who inspired or shaped your leadership style?" Oh man, that's a great question.

Man, I guess I have to pick a moment in time first because I've been inspired by so many people. Inspired my leadership style?

Well, it looks like probably—

I would say no, no. I would say, I'll go back to a comment I had earlier about roles and functions. I'm going to say, and it's gonna, it's gonna sound like a name drop, but it just is what it is. Let's say Vice Chief of Operations Admiral Kilby. He's the one that gave me, he's the one that gave me the roles and functions piece. But he gave it to me back when he was, back during when I was in the Pentagon. There was this window where I'm, I am post department head at sea. I screened for command, but I'm still not in the pipeline yet. So I'm really, I'm trying to think through what kind of leader I'm going to be. And we had a mentorship, I got on his calendar, had a mentorship session. That's one of the pieces that really stuck out with me. Roles and functions. And why do I say that? Is because from a team of teams perspective, you know, one team is going to be, uh, your quarterdeck watch. Another team is gonna be your watchstanders in CIC. Another team is going to be your bridge watch team, right? Another team is going to be your folks in CCS. Right? Another team is your department heads. Another team is your chief. See what I'm saying?

Yes.

And so, so trying to understand who has what is what I found to be most successful.

Wow.

If— because some, because some of my problems, I needed an ETC, a chief electronics technician. But sometimes my problem is needed a chief. I needed a chief petty officer. I don't care what your rating is. There's a leadership challenge over here that this ship needs, and it is, it is an issue that has come to my attention, and I see where it affects what we're trying to do, right? And so, um, I was— but that, that comes back to the, uh, in the early stages of the command, thinking about command roles and functions, because again, I wanted everybody to understand what I wanted I wanted to manage expectations throughout the command.

Wow.

Which means starting by them knowing what I wanted from them.

Absolutely. Admiral Kirby, that is so insightful. Okay. Someone had to drop, which is perfectly fine because we have 5 minutes above the time, but you told me I can have as much time as I want. I'm going to try to land this plane in the next 10 minutes. But yeah.

Okay, I'll give you 15.

Thank you. Don't worry, guys, you can watch it, the replay. As soon as we are done. It's going to be on LinkedIn and YouTube and probably in a couple of hours, all of the other major podcast platforms. Okay. Let me also, before I get to one more question from people watching from the audience, let's listen to this. Fred Green says, swimming was a challenge for me in OCS. It was so bad that our swim instructor was upset because I embarrassed him by sleeping at the bottom of the pool. Okay, Fred.

That's hilarious.

You've got it. I don't think that's ever happened. In my Navy career. Okay, when he called on me, it was— that's hilarious. That is very, very funny. All right, and a question from Stephanie Easter. She has— you took command of STARAT at a critical time. How did you know you were ready and up to the challenge? What advice would you give to a young leader to help them prepare to be ready for a challenge when it comes? Good question.

See, that's what happens. You drop your mentor's name, they come back with a question to call you out.

That's right.

Man, that's a great question. How did I know I was ready? Because—

how would you prepare?

Yeah, yeah. I was ready because I wanted command. So, you know, even though the circumstances around me assuming command were less than ideal, I was executive officer on Bainbridge. And then I was reslated to USS Stout, That's what was beautiful about it. I didn't change my game plan for command at all. You know, I had an interesting phone call with my Commodore at the time that was a part of the decision to move me over to this STALP. And I asked him that question. I said, what do you, what do you need from me? And he said, ownership, accountability, and culture. Not get through the basic phase, not deploy on time. Not, you know, fix X, Y, or Z. It was, uh, um, accountability, culture, um, and ownership. And so, uh, for me, I was like, okay, that's— let's go. And I brought the same mentality, uh, to Stout. The only thing that was different was I had to relearn the sailors. Um, and so I spent, I spent the first 2 weeks kind of just, uh, well, before command, I kind of met— I've had office calls with a lot of key players that influenced the ship, whether it was the, my port engineer. I met with the base CO, met with the type commander and some of their staff. Um, and then when I got to the ship for turnover week, I might— I probably spent 75% of my time meeting with the, the leaders on the ship that owned programs, um, and then did my assessment that way. So because the mission will take care of itself, and so, um, I brought, I brought that approach. And so by the time, uh, I took command, you know, I was ready, ready to run.

Wow.

What was interesting, it was either first underway, first event was mooring to a buoy, um, which— so it was like, talk about challenges. But, you know, I had XO and the commanding officer on the bullnose on foremost end of the ship and sound power phones, you know, trying to make sure I don't get— I get no less than or no more than 50 feet from a buoy while the, the boatswain mate and the boat team tie us off to demonstrate that capability.

Wow. That is amazing.

So the advice— but I would say the advice I would give the young leaders would be professional curiosity. Um, the, the Navy brings in so many ensigns to create so many 06s 20, 25 years later. The path is already laid. You're going to spend so much time as a Divo, so much time as department head, so much time as an excellent CO. That part's already laid out. So go to My Navy HR, go to the Purge 41 website, go to the community brief, and get professionally curious about what the Navy expects from you as a naval officer., um, and within your community. And I found that to be very helpful. And so, um, the, the J.O. that, um, is worried about if they can do it, that's where you start. You prepare for it. Don't say— don't— your mindset shouldn't be, well, I'll figure it out when I get to the ship. Why? You got all this time with no requirements on you. Yes, that's the time to go read stuff. That's the time to go learn something. That's go learn what the expectations are so you can show up with a, a ba— a higher baseline level of knowledge so you can actually be effective and have impact.

That is very, very good advice. So, uh, is there a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

Oh, oh man, uh, a book or movie that would be my life story?

Yes, your life's theme or anthem, song, book, or movie. Um, interesting.

Okay, well, I'm gonna— I guess I'll go with two songs.

Okay.

Um, the first song would be— it's a song by Fred Hammond, um, called Thank You, I Won't Complain. That's one. And then Um, another one would probably be, um, I Love Fred. Oh, another song would be— is the song I played for, uh, my first Unwrapping Command. It was Jay-Z's Public Service Announcement. Okay, nice. A nice, a nice mix of humble confidence. Yes, because what I like about the both of those songs is, you know, Um, I know where my help comes from. Um, but there's still a— there's a— there's some of it on me where I gotta keep what— keep what's happening to me in perspective, right?

Yes.

Kind of that'd be the takeaway. And then with the Jay-Z song, just, hey man, allow me to reintroduce myself, my name is hope.

You know what I mean? Yes. What doesn't Okay, so let me ask you a more serious question. If you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

To life in general? That my family is proud of me. And I did, and they know I did everything I could to be the best version of myself for them.

That's powerful. That's also my definition of success, because it's not about how much you achieve, but gaining the respect. When I look at my wife, the way she looks at me, I want her to look at me like that for the rest of my life.

I want to do exactly—

she's going to be shame, shame. Powerful. Okay, and, uh, when you wake up in the morning, what is one problem you would like to solve?

Um, what am I gonna eat for breakfast?

Okay, that's a problem. Okay, very good. So we are coming to the very end of the show. Is there anything we can do to add value back to you to make a difference? Thank you so much for being so generous with your time.

The something that one of the things I did on my, in my command tour, that was, it was very exhaustive for the leadership style But it paid off in dividends when it mattered most, which was— and I told it to my crew in all hands and intel meetings, small and large groups, I was consistent the whole time— lead with empathy. Because it starts with the thing that I need to do I need your help.

Yes.

So let me communicate this need to you that accounts for your perspective of helping me. Hmm. That way, I want to help you find your place in my solution. Because now I'm building an ally. Yes. In that regard. And I found that to be very helpful, such that by By the time we deployed, I was in command 17 months.

Wow.

And I was already fatigued. And so, um, but I hit up one of my old COs right before we deployed. He gave me the best advice for that moment, which was, you trained them, now let them run the ship.

Wow.

And so we made the deployment because, because of the crew, not because of— I was, I was there to make decisions and to answer the calls from my chain of command, my warfare commanders. And I wanted my— I did my best to protect the crew from whatever was going on outside the skin of the ship. My job was to have that buffer there and allow them to do their job.

Wow.

And they did it well. That is so— we broke records.

Wow. That is amazing because it's really all about leadership, influence, and, uh, building an environment. When we talked about culture, where people want to be part of the environment, the workforce, your crew, and then when they show up, they do the very, very best work they can. Like, uh, General Powell says, right, management takes you to 100%, but leadership can take you above 100% because of that vision, that influence. Powerful. Oh, by the way, just so that you know, We are also broadcasting on Twitch. I think it's mostly gamers who go there. So someone called—

hey, Twitch!

I think of falsification, but just said hi. They usually don't listen to what we are doing, but anyway, they are— some of them are listening. Okay, we are coming to the very end. Is there a question I should have asked you that I haven't asked yet?

No, Alex, I'm here as long as you need me, so if you got a bonus question, fire away.

All right, so I am going to ask that to you. First of all, uh, what is the most rewarding aspect of your life experience so far?

Um, on the family side, I would say just seeing my children, um, transition to adulthood, being functional and contributing members of society. Um, twins are in college and my oldest daughter is doing her thing as well as an adult. So I'm truly, truly grateful for that. That'd be one part. And then I'd say for the Navy, to— I have felt valued and appreciated more times than not. That has been very helpful, is to know that my contribution, no matter how small, can impact an individual or a team in any number of ways, which has been great.

Wow, that is exceptional. The last question I'm going to ask you actually before I do, so maybe as you saw that, Marco says, thank you for your time, knowledge, and leadership.

Absolutely. Appreciate you, Marco.

Stephanie says amazing session. So we are coming to the end here. So probably the most important question, I think, for the junior officers listening right now: if you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had in the US Navy, what would you say to 17-year-old Des?

Um, You can do it.

Just do it.

Because there's been— I would say it because, you know, there's a couple times I did want to quit, you know. But it was— I was facing some decisions, like I was gonna— at my 20— when I was approaching my 20-year mark, I was in a dark time as a leader, and I very seriously considered retiring right at 20. And because it was myself and my chief, we had put so much energy into trying to turn some things around. And then some things were happening to me personally that I was just like, I said, I just can't take this anymore. But, you know, I share some things with leadership. And, but what got me over the hump was my sailors. My E-6 leadership came to me and said, sir, it's gonna be alright, we got you. Right. And so this, the second half of that tour was totally different for me.

Wow.

For me. Because I— it again, that transition where you think all of it's on you, your individual level of effort is all you have. But when I built that allyship within my own sphere of influence such that they were able to now carry this load that I didn't have to carry by myself, um, that, that was a game changer for me. And then, you know, here it is, you know, 7 years later I did go into a very difficult situation, but I had been through it. Yeah, I knew what that, that team, um, potentially could be, um, if I brought those lessons I learned, uh, to bear from you.

Wow, that is very powerful. And for the junior officers listening, I would say you absolutely have to take care of your mental health. I know when I first joined the Navy 20 years ago, nobody wanted to talk about mental health because you're going to lose your security clearance and the Navy is going to kick you out. But today it's a different Navy. Yeah, it's definitely important. If you need to say something about that real quick, raise your hand and ask for help, please.

So this is— you bring it up, but one thing I talk to my crew about as well too, and I— this is— I'm not slamming mental health or anything like that. It's the characterization is really important in today's age, especially with social media allowing people to create virtual realities and different social constructs that lie to them. Um, for me, I go— there's a difference between mental health and mental wellness, right? Uh, you know, getting counseling, you know, going to seek professional help, you know, um, to validate what's going on with you physiologically, that's one piece of it. But I talked to my crew a lot now, and my— I would bring my independent duty corpsman and my, uh, my chaplain into that conversation as well. Like, let's talk about mental wellness. You know, it's very easy to say physical standards are like this because of diet and exercise. Yes, right. But physical, physical health is I'm going to do my PHA, I'm going to get my shots. But what's physical fitness? Physical fitness is I gotta make time to go work out. Physical fitness is if I got a choice between the carbs and the protein and the sugar, I got to make some choices. And so what do you— what's your mental fitness like? Are you taking 15 minutes to meditate? Are you getting the 6, 7, 8 hours of sleep on the ship? Are you choosing Wi-Fi or going to study? Are you choosing working out or going to, uh, get some extra training? Yes, the fitness piece of the mental part, it doesn't get enough conversation in my— that's just my opinion, you know, the emphasis on mental fitness. The support is there, the support is great. Supporting people gets most of the conversation, but I'm a big personal accountability kind of guy. And where, where is your role in your fitness?

Wow, that's powerful, right?

So that'd be my challenge to anyone. What is your role in your fitness?

That really could be life-changing. Thank you so much for, uh, sharing, because I, I think, again, the Navy is changing now, but when I first joined the Navy 20 years ago, you know, every male, you want to be an alpha male, you think you're strong. Sometimes you even hurt yourself during PT or whatever, you don't want to tell anything to anyone because I'm a man, I'm gonna take it. But I think that's maybe not the best, you know, framework. If you need help, it is okay. We are all human beings and sometimes we fall, and have somebody help you get back up again. Okay, we are coming to the very end. Very, very quickly, don't think too long. What did you want to be when you were a kid?

Oh, first I was gonna be an artist because I used to love to draw. Lost that skill set real quick. Then I was one— then I was going to go into architectural drafting. That was— I was going to go to MSMS graduate Mississippi State or go to Mississippi State for architecture or drafting, but I ended up going to Navy instead.

Wow, okay. I guess that's not what you are now. Sometimes people may have dreams and then they find a way to still do it. But okay, 3 adjectives describing you as a child.

As a child? Um, I would say, um, curious, Boring and dreamer.

Okay, as an adult?

Focused, determined, and really quick, empathetic.

Very good. Oh, wow. That's quite a transformation. Okay, we are at the very, very end now. This is the very, very last question I'm going to ask. What is one word that comes to mind to represent the shared experience we've had on this podcast? I think this is the longest podcast I've ever hosted. What is one word that comes to mind? Thank you for your time. Really appreciate that.

Grateful.

Grateful. Yeah, I think I am ecstatic. It really means a lot to me. I think I have the book here. Let me see if I can get it. This person really truly is my, uh, hero, right? Uh, Colin Powell.

Yeah. And I read his book, It Worked for Me.

Wow. Yeah, I have that one too, and he actually signed it. Yeah, this one.

Yeah, I got it signed from— by two of the guys in the Pentagon. Yeah, I have that one.

Yep. I finally met him in Atlanta. The way he speaks, I mean, is just amazing. Yeah. I wish he had to run for president, but Anyway, I think it really matters. Representation matters a lot because even as an E-1, I knew, you know, if I get a chance, I would even become— when I went to boot camp, I become a chief or a commander. But seeing somebody who looks like you, who's like 4-star general, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, it really does something where it is possible, right? And I think it really matters a lot. So I am really excited people like you doing extremely well, already in the top 4% of all US Navy employees by being a Commander of the Nine, Captain Select, and all of the achievement in the world. It's really, really, really good to see that, especially when you look like me. I think we need to see more and more, more women, more people of color do very, very well in this US Navy. We are not in 1930 anymore, I hope, but we want to move forward and give everybody a chance. And I really believe Every industry, including the military, need to represent our nation, right? One nation under God. We are a melting pot. And I really think that diversity makes us so strong. So anyway, I am just excited to see you. So I don't think you're going to be retiring anytime soon. Mine is still a big question mark. I am in zone 406 this year, but we're going to see how things go. But mine came really, really quickly because I've been in the Navy only 20, 21 years next next month, and I'm already in zone 4 or 6, maybe because I am an IP officer, not a SOA. I've heard that you guys will eat your young, so we don't do that.

No, we don't do that anymore.

Oh, good, good for me. Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here. Sorry it took too long today, but I'm gonna add a 10-minute recap sometimes next week for those who can spend an hour and 30 minutes to listen to the podcast. Thanks, thanks again., and, uh, I see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruption, of technology or execute a business strategy, you may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.