S4:E84 🎙️LIVE with CAPT Michael Salehi, U.S. Navy (Multi Tracks Audio)

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Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, this podcast is for you. His mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: Everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to positively impact the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

Hi, I'm Captain Michael Salehi, United States Navy. For over 26 years, I've served at the intersection of cyber operations, cryptologic warfare, and global intelligence. From my early days on the deck plates of the USS Philippine Sea to commanding the Navy's largest communication station in the Pacific, I've had the privilege of leading teams across the fleet. Our mission was simple: keep the force connected, resilient, and ready anytime, anywhere. Leadership at sea, in special operations, and in major command has taught me one thing above all: rank is rented, trust is earned. And I'm looking forward to sharing those lessons with you on the Leadership and Success Podcast.

All right everyone, thank you so much for joining me today. Today is a very special day. We are Saturday, October 4th, and I have a very, very special guest. You just saw a short clip from Captain, uh, Saheel. He's going to be here in just a moment, but before I bring him on, let's do our moment of gratitude as it is is our custom here. If you would please take a moment and think about one thing you are grateful for today. If you can close your eyes, put yourself in your happy place, take a deep breath, and think about that one thing you are grateful for today. What are you grateful for? I think today I am grateful for health. I may not have perfect health, but I am feeling today I didn't have any pain in my and I'm really, really grateful for that. Looks like the older you get, the more important your health becomes. So let us know what you are grateful for. Type it in the comment, please. Okay, thanks again for being here. And let me say just a little bit more about Captain Michael Sailey before I bring him on board. So our guest today, I am really honored to be joined by Captain Michael Sailey. Like me, He's an information warfare officer, a transformational senior leader with 20+6 experience of service in cyber operations, technological warfare, intelligence integration, and global communication. From the deck plate of the USS Philippine Sea to commanding the Navy's largest communication station, Captain Sahili has consistently proven that rank is rented, but trust is earned. What you're gonna be learning today is lesson on leading large complex organization across multiple continent and mission. The future of cybersecurity, cyber operation, and information warfare in a contested world, and how to build trusted, centered, high-performing teams that deliver under pressure. Reflection on mentorship, family, and faith in sustaining a career of service. So ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, please help me welcome on the Leadership and Success Podcast Captain Michael Sallehi. Here we go. How are you doing today, Captain?

I, I, I'm doing great, BZ. I, I really appreciate you having me here. So, uh, this is fantastic. Thank you so much.

It looks like we had a delay in the clapping, but fantastic. I'm really great. You are here. I guess first question I'm going to ask you, sir, uh, what is one thing you are grateful for today?

Okay, uh, before I get started, just really one quick thing that my lawyers always make me say is, uh, The views that I expressed today are not that of the Navy or the Department of War. They're mine exclusively. So thanks for getting that. I think today what I'm really grateful for is I'm grateful for this platform that we have today that we can share our insights for the next generation of leaders. The most important thing we develop, I think, as leaders is the future and a legacy that we leave. And today, by sharing what we have learned to the next generation to be able to take the mantle and move it beyond us, I think that is something that I'm truly grateful for. So thank you so much for having me here to do that today. That's what I'm grateful for.

That is, that is really powerful. And for those of people who are not in the Navy, because I'm also talking to the Silicon Valley tech guys over there where leadership and mentorship is not really, I guess, ingrained in the way they do business. In my experience, maybe it's just the companies I've worked for in Silicon Valley, but peers tend to really compete against one another. The competition is fierce. So if I know something, I don't want to share it with you because if I do, you may, you know, get a better opportunity than I do. So there's a lot of this infighting and competition and jealousy, which I frankly, in the 21 years I've been in the Navy, I've really never seen it. We always share and we lead with an open hand and always thinking about the next generation. Even when I was at the lowest rank as an E-1, a seaman recruit, my chief trusted me and they saw me as a potential leader, which was just incredible. And anyway, that's just our culture in the Navy. And like you said, I'm really, really, really grateful for that. So another question I have for you just to kind of break the ice, is there something about you that most people may not know about?

About? Um, yeah, I think, uh, I, I think my journey has been very interesting in the Navy. Uh, I, I am on my third professional designator in the United States Navy. I started off as a student naval aviator, and I lateral transferred to the Supply Corps. The old saying goes, if you can't fly, you go supply. And then I transferred into the information community, information warfare, as a cryptologic warfare officer. I don't think many people know that about me per se, uh, but, uh, yeah, I've had a very interesting experience of where I am today and how I got there, and I'm hoping we could tease some of that out here in the next hour or so.

Wow, that is really wonderful. So many paths in, in, in the service. So I, I understand, um, you took your commissioning, I believe it was in 1999, right? That's what, 26 years ago? Yeah. So what inspired you to join the Navy?

Yeah, yeah, good question. You know, I think from a very young age I was always— and I'm the son of immigrants. My parents immigrated back here from, uh, in the 1960s and '70s from Iran to study abroad. And what attracted to me about the military was I was raised in an environment where your integrity was second to none. It was all about your integrity. Your dedication, and your hard work. And I saw the parallels growing up about the values that I held, that my family raised me in, with the military. And for me, it was always trying to be part of something bigger than myself. Yeah, I, I knew that it wasn't about me, but I knew that this country had given so much to my parents because my parents had worked so hard. And I felt like, here's my opportunity to fulfill my passions, uh, and also give back to a country that had given so much to my family. And then, by the way, in the '80s, I watched Top Gun. So what kid in the '80s didn't want to go fly an F-14 Tomcat off the carrier, right? So that's really one of the reasons. And I had a vision early on of how I wanted to go about it, but that's what kind of drew me into the military and to set my goals initially to being a navigator in the United States Navy as a commissioned officer.

That's really cool. Did the Air Force tempt you at all?

Not in the least bit, BZ.

In my—

like this idea of the Marines and the Army were just crazy. So it was between the Navy and the Air Force. I guess Top Gun may have had a little influence on me, but also like James Bond, right? It was a— I know he's not a real person, it's a fictitious person, but Bond, James Bond, he was a naval intelligence officer from, uh, correct. Navy, which, which was pretty, pretty cool. So even back then, I— my idea was, no, I will never become a senior officer, or if I stay enlisted, a senior enlisted person. Things just happened. I, I got an opportunity to become an officer, which, which is great. So what made you want to go from supply to information warfare?

Okay, yeah, great, great question. You know, um, the flight school thing didn't work out. I realized that I was not going to be a good pilot. And, uh, um, I needed to find something else, and I was extremely demoralized, uh, at that point. Everything—

you have to have 20/20 vision, right?

Yes, yes. Which I, I did all the physical checks. I could swim perfectly. It's just I didn't feel comfortable in the cockpit, and I decided that it wasn't going to be for me. And, uh, you know, they— like I said in the earlier, in the beginning, is if you can't fly, you could go supply. You know, my, my point was I'm gonna do my time. I got 3 and a half years left and I'm out.

I'm done.

Like I'm gonna transition. Well, on my first shift, I was on the Philippine Sea when September 9th happened. And we were actually deployed right outside the, the Arabian Gulf. And, uh, you know, it was, it was, it was a time of uncertainty. But what I saw at that time with our ship was a sense of teamwork and unity. And I thought to myself that maybe it's not time for me to leave.

Right.

And at that moment I knew that I was unfulfilled and there was something more I needed to do. So fast forward, I get into my next job and I go to Naval Security Group Activity Fort Meade. And, uh, lo and behold, somebody discovers me, my CO. She's like, do you know Farsi? I'm like, well, yeah, my parents are from Iran. And she's like, oh really? Like, do you want to take the DLPT, Defense Language Placement Test, and see how you do? I was like, I don't know, is that going to keep me in the Navy? She's like, no, no, no, no, not at all. But, uh, and I had orders to get out of the Navy, but there was something actually that drew me back in. And I took the DLPT and I scored decent enough, and they said, you know what, like, we actually need somebody of your background with language cultural skill sets that can add value to today's interesting and dynamic perspectives. So I, uh, I I don't know what it was. I'm like, I'll take a chance. So lo and behold, a lateral transfer. Then I went off to DLI and I studied Persian and Farsi, and that's how my career started in the cryptologic community. And ever since then, it has not been static. It's been extremely dynamic. But that's the initial thing that got me into the community.

That is very interesting. Two things, because mine was French, but Benevy doesn't care about French. They didn't care about French last 21 years I was in. And number two, I, I did work at DLI as well. I was the chief information security officer for their network. They were trying to run away from the DATML to the DATEDU because it was too restricted for them to be able to teach Farsi, Russian, and all of those languages. But that network wouldn't allow them to go to those sites. But anyway, most people I have seen go through that path, they would go intel, not cryptological warfare. So it is, it is kind of cool that that's the way you, uh, you went. That's, that is fantastic. Now let me ask you this, sir. Uh, you've served at Special Operations and Major Command. Which class assignment stretched you the most and why? Anything you can talk about?

Yeah, no, I could definitely talk through that. I, I think every one of my assignments, they stretched me. Um, and part of like Being stretched is putting yourself in a position that you are gonna be stretched. You gotta keep an open mind. For me, it's always, I, I've always had a growth mindset and I knew wherever I went, like something was gonna stretch me. Um, the one job that did really figuratively and literally, I should say literally, but it stretched me was going to major command at NIC TAM's PAC. Uh, it was outside of my designator. Um, I was a cryptologic warfare officer. I was going to the information professional community. And, uh, there was a lot of things that I did not know. And as a senior 06 going to a major command, you know, you expect to be on the top of your game. Sure, I had the leadership skills, but the technical side of it wasn't where it probably needed to be. Uh, and it really pushed me to the point where I really had to put my nose in the books. I had really good people to ask questions. And that's one of the most important things as leaders is we need to do is to be able to ask those really tough, critical, questions, but it took a while to get me up to speed. But it really, it was painful in the process, but I'm so grateful for it, uh, that I had the opportunity to do it. But it was, it was definitely the hardest stretch assignment that I have ever had in the Navy.

Yeah, I, I remember my first command, uh, that it's really a full-time job when you are commanding officer, isn't it? And you don't get your weekends off.

Yeah, it is.

Really, in my opinion, the Navy, the military in general, we are a leadership organization. Position who just happened to have a bunch of hard hardware. But, uh, you've, you've also, uh, led at the Indo-PACOM, so Joint Intelligence Operations Center. No, you led more than 900 professionals in one of the most geopolitically dynamic theaters in the world. So how do you lead effectively in an environment where the stakes are global and the pace is relentless? And one, one thing I'm gonna add is, uh, when I was a commanding officer, another challenge I had was being able to work, no, with up to 5 generations in the same— oh yeah, especially people like my kids' age, Gen Z, they are completely different creatures. So I actually had to have my daughters mentor me about how to effectively white lead and inspire those, those people. But it was just a lot of learning anyway.

Yeah. So fantastic question. Um, you know, my job at the JIOC was not to try to learn everybody's job. I knew that. Um, I also was in a position at the JIOC where it was peer leadership. I had a lot of O-6s of the same rank, some of them senior to me that I was effectively in charge of. So for me, I learned a lot about just peer leadership, trust. A lot of it was, comes down to trust is, If they don't trust you, they're not going to follow you. And what do you do to build that trust? For me, it's like I had a bunch of superstar division chiefs. I didn't need to micromanage them. I just needed to let them know that I was there to provide clarity, support, and I'm there to take face punches when you need the face punches, uh, if necessary. But empowerment, you know, at that level just goes so far. It, I wouldn't say it was easy, but it was definitely— if you have mastered the skill of empowering your people, and empowerment doesn't mean you abrogate your responsibility in the least bit, you're still providing oversight and quality control. But if you're able to set the tone, the vision, and be able to provide backup to them when they need it, like, it wasn't as difficult as I would tell you. The only thing that really made it difficult, I'd say one of the big things was the op tempo was relentless. It was a really fast-paced organization. We had a boss who was extremely brilliant and intelligent, but he was— he drove us and he stretched us. But with the trust, the empowerment, providing clarity, providing clear direction, being able to simplify things to them, I think went a long way as far as getting the organization to move in a direction that it needed to be.

Wow.

So I think those were the, the big things of success when I was at the JIAOC that I learned.

That is, that is really interesting because one of the vice admirals I interviewed a few weeks back told me leadership is leadership. So first within the Navy, but across all of the military branches. But even when you go to the industry, right, the secular enterprises, those leadership lessons, they still apply. But now, those huge operations you've had both at Indo-Pacom, but also at NICNAMS PARACORD, which is the Navy's largest communication enterprise in the world. You often say that rank is rented, trust is earned. I think I've already said that twice already. So how did you build trust quickly and with such large diverse teams spread across multiple locations?

Yeah, great question. You know, I think a lot of trust is built by showing your humility, making sure that your people know that you're not the one that knows everything. Uh, showing approachability, I think, goes a long way with building trust and showing confidence and coolness under pressure, that they know that they could rely on you to provide them top cover when you need to. Uh, but even more importantly is just building consistency in how you approach problems. Your sailors and, and whoever it is, they don't want to see you erratic. They want to see that you're You're constant in your way of thought and your action. And I think if you just do that and you also make yourself accessible, approachable, and humble, you're gonna start building that trust. And the challenge of it too is also just with a command that large, making yourself approachable doesn't mean you sit in your stateroom all day long waiting for people to bring problems to you. It means you going on the deck plates and listening to people's problems, you know, and you're not undermining your chain of command. But part of what I did during my off-duty time, or when I was done with work, I would just go to the watch floor and I would sit down with individual sailors. It didn't matter if they're E-2s or O-4s or O-5s. It was, it was me showing them that I'm a human being, that I put my pants on the same way they do in the morning, and just listening to them. And I always told my sailors, I'm like, I will listen to you all day long. Now I'm going to make a decision whether I take some of your input or I don't, but know that when I come and talk to you, like, I'm doing it as a human being and I truly want to understand what are some of your challenges that you have on the deck plates. By doing that, I tell you what, you learn so much more about what's going on than things as they come up the chain of command. And it's nothing to hit on your people that are in between it, but you play phone, you fake telephone. People have well intentions of passing a message. But it just gets distorted, right? So by going down there and actually hearing it from the deck plates gives you the raw, unfiltered truth and makes you build that trust, right? And I think that was one of the reasons I felt like maybe they did— I think people trusted me with my consistency and my approachability and my humility.

Wow, that is, that is really powerful. And I would like to acknowledge one of the the young people in the audience right now. So that's SFPC Nathan Gorka. He says, no matter what your rank, title, or role, always keep learning. That is so important. And, uh, humility is such an underrecognized trait. Another thing I would say about the Navy specifically, but I think it's across all of our branches here in the U.S., is the importance we put in leadership even at the lowest rank. Because even, um, especially with the senior enlisted leaders, right? In my opinion, one of the reasons why we have the best armed forces in the world compared to some of the other countries is some of those countries, like in Russia for example, if you get rid of all of the general, the admiral, all of the senior officer rank, those people won't know what to do, where to go, and, uh, and they will completely lose any sight about their vision and, and their mission. Whereas in the US, we don't really need the senior officer. They give us the vision, they tell us what to do, but it's really the senior enlisted people, in my opinion, that really run the Navy. So it's, it's, it's really amazing to see how leadership is ingrained in everything we do, from boot camp all the way to operation at sea or whatever. Anyway, so another question I have for you, sir. You've published on unmanned and autonomous systems. Where do you see the intersection of artificial intelligence, autonomy, and cyber in shaping the future, uh, battle space?

Yeah, I mean, I think anybody who's done AI— AI is definitely just the next high ground. I think whoever is going to be able to integrate AI the fastest but also the most securely is going to be— is going to win. And it's not just how we incorporate AI into battles, but economics, politicals, all elements of natural, of instruments of power, the DIME criteria. Whoever could integrate that, I think, is going to be successful. But here's the challenge with AI is you can't put AI without any type of guardrails. And what I mean by guardrails is, you know, AI is going to help us move faster, no doubt about that, but you can't abrogate human judgment. With the utilization of AI. Um, everybody knows who's played with AI, it does make mistakes, right? AI does hallucinate. And if you don't put the guardrails on it, think about the magnitude of how much mistakes can be exponentially propagated from one place to the other if you don't put the, the proper guard posts that are in place. So it's not man versus machine, it's really what you got to think about AI is man -plus machine is what's going to keep AI going. You can't separate the two. And I think that's a challenge that people have right now trying to figure out how to use AI.

Wow, that is so powerful. And it's really the times we live in now. So in your view, what can the private sector learn from the military approach to cyber resilience and vice versa? And also, I think you've made it public, Looks like you are going to be finally retiring this fiscal year 2026. And so I'm sure you're working on the transition from the military back into the industry. But what do you think the industry can learn from us in the military?

Yeah, I think there's— and just to go back to flip it a little bit too, BZ, is it's both. We could definitely learn from industry, trust me. And I'll talk a little bit about that too. But from a military perspective, I mean, we are relentless about standards, compliance. We build reps and sets, we do after-action reviews ad nauseam. I can't tell you how many root cause analysis I did at PACT Fleet. And we always prepare for a worst-case scenario. We always assume that the next mission is going to go bad. So we do ARs, we hot wash things, we train for the absolute bad day. Now you flip it on the industry side Industry, on the other hand, like, they just know how to move fast. They can move code fast. They know how to incorporate data smartly, because with industry, it's all about the bottom line. You have to make those decisions, and they're able to leverage the power of data to make more precise, make more precise decisions. Adapting talent models, I think, to drive decisions as well. But really, the key is, is we need to be able to find a way to fuse the both of them. Having both together, you know, the rigor with the military, but really industry's velocity in delivering, I think is something that we should really take a step back and try to incorporate. That's to me, that's really real resilience. If we can get both sides to marry up, I think we can move forward and become a much more resilient perspective. So not one or the other, we definitely can learn from both.

Yeah, that is so powerful. I remember, I think it was in 2018, 2010, 2011, so 15 years ago, when I transitioned to Silicon Valley, I was really shocked because the company I worked for, they would do those 2-week sprints, like every 2 weeks they come up with new code. I'm like, are you guys crazy? Like in the Navy, you only do that maybe once a year or once every 6 months, not using the waterfall method, but with this agile methodology. It's like they— and many times too, when they go live, they go to market, their code isn't as good as it needs to be, it's not as secure as it needs to be, but they iterate so quickly. And, uh, anyway, definitely a different world. So I'm about to switch over from the first to the second segment. Is there a question for the first segment I haven't asked you, sir, that I should have asked? Anything you want to share before we switch over?

Uh, I, I don't, I don't think so. I think we're good for now. Yeah, well, I think I'll come up here soon.

So the second segment is where I really focus on leadership. What is, uh, the greatest lesson you think you have learned so far?

Yeah, I think the greatest leadership lesson that I learned, um, you know, we grow up watching movies about what leadership is like. You know, you see the commander or the standing up there, the omnipotent, all-knowing one. I think people have a false sense, and Hollywood glamorizes what true leadership is. Um, for me, the first key lesson of leadership was understanding that, like, I'm not going to know all the answers to everything. I'm just not. And it's, it's not my job to know all the answers. It's, it's able to really harness the resources at my disposal. And I learned that from a chief when I was on my first ship in the Philippine Sea. And I was a new brand new committed CDO, Command Duty Officer. So I had charge of the ship when the CO was gone. I had my duty sections. I had my supply duty section. I had my combat systems engineering. And I was running around trying to figure out like what everyone's job was. And my chief pulled me aside. He's like, "Sir," he's like, "You look lost." And I'm like, "Chief, I am really lost. Like, I can't learn this." Like, and I'm a voracious reader and I love reading and learning. I was like, "I couldn't do it." He said, "Sir, here's the best thing I could tell you is you don't need to know all the answers. You just need to know how to go find them." And that landed boom in my head. I'm like, "It's all about being resourceful, isn't it?" He's like, You got it, sir. And that lesson was the first lesson that I learned that carried me so far in my career is not knowing— sure, you got to know your qualifications, but you can't sit there and know the PQS cards, the qualification standards of every enlisted person, the chief that's working for you. You just need to know how to harness it and make good sound decisions and judgment based upon the risks that you're taking. This is always the first lesson.

Well, and again, lessons like that are applicable both in the military and in the industry as well. Oh, there is another one, uh, Steven Robinson. He says, insightful, human plus AI essential. Thank you so much, Steven Robinson. And Nithin again says, uh, this is why veterans are so important to industry. I definitely agree. Oh, both Steven, Nithin, those who are watching, please let us know where you are coming from. I'd like to know the city and the state, if in the US, or which country, uh, what are you guys grateful before, and also if you have a lesson for Captain Sailly so we can answer your question live on the air. Thank you so much. So, sir, 26 years, you went from O-1 to, uh, O-6, Senior O-6 now. And for those who are not familiar with the Navy, so, uh, O-6 is Captain, which is the equivalent of Colonel in the other branches of the military. I have a very funny story about that. I think I was a JG. I was deployed in the USS Essex, and somebody told me a captain wanted to see me. And so I am O2, I thought it was an O6, and I was, oh my goodness, my goodness, because again, when I was enlisted, commander above, I don't mess with them, no, just leave me alone. But, but I, I get there, it was like an Army, uh, captain. I'm like, what in the world, you're only an O3, get out of here. But, but anyway, having said this, uh What do you think is the secret of your success? In 20 years, you went from '01 to '06. Now, we said you got 3 different designators, had a lot of success in your career, but what do you think? Break it down. What made you so—

Yeah, I mean, this is— I think this is really what made me successful. And a lot of people talk about pick your, you know, choose your rate, choose your fate, pick your service. I think I picked the right spouse that made me successful. Um, my wife is a saint. Like, she sacrificed her entire career. She went to college. She's a bright young lady, and, uh, she stuck behind all the hours of the kids, raising the kids when I wasn't home, when I was deployed, long hours. She allowed me to focus on my work. Um, it And to get to where I needed to get, like, there was a lot of sacrifices that needed to be done. But I tell folks, this is like, be very intentional with your significant other if you choose to make a career or even a short term in the military. Because— and I— this is nothing against anybody else. This worked for me. This is what made me successful. But having a strong person behind you when the times are tough, trust— I mean, Don't get me wrong, there's times when I came to her and I would ask command experience, expertise, not classified stuff, obviously, but I would ask her, I was like, what's your take? And she's like, well, did you think about this?

Did you think?

I'm like, no. I mean, it was just crazy how much just picking the right person mattered to me. That let me harness all my talents to focus on the things that I needed to get to keep to continue progressing through the Navy.

Wow.

That's what made me successful.

That is very, very, very powerful. And, uh, by the way, it looks like Nathan Gauk knew you back at Fort Meade when he was a very junior enlisted back then.

And also, wow, that's a blast from the past. Good.

Another thing I love about the service, even people I met back when I went to boot camp, that was in 2000 2004, 2005. I still, uh, I'm in touch with many of them. It's just amazing that band of brotherhood, some of my best friends ever. That's, that's just wonderful. Okay, and what, what do you think, sir, what is the greatest leadership advice you have ever received?

Oh wow, um, one of the greatest I think is, uh, care deeply about your people, um, but don't lower your standards. And I think that stuck with me is we all care and love our folks. We do, you know, but at the end of the day, like, we have to be able to produce mission outcomes.

Yes.

And I've seen it in the past where a lot of times folks care passionately and they don't want to put their folks in uncomfortable situations, so they start lowering their standards. That doesn't ever work. Right. So for me, it was knowing that I gotta keep my, my standards high. I'm uncompromising on my standards, but I could still take care of my folks. But sometimes it's tough love and it's not just a cliché term, but you, you're getting produced to, I mean, you're getting paid to produce mission outcomes.

Yes.

In the Navy, especially as a commissioned officer. Uh, and at the minute you lower your standards, it snowballs. 'cause your folks start lowering their standards and so on and so on and so on. And it cascades. The higher in a leadership position you get, your lower standards have massive ripple effects. But it doesn't mean you don't have to care about your people, but just know where the lines are as you're leading.

That's right. If I said mission first, what would you say?

The mission is first. Let me just, let me caveat this, okay? Um, the mission is always first. However, comma, you can't do your job without your people. Everybody knows that. So how you figure out how to balance— like, it's an art. It really is. It's not one or the other, right? Sometimes it's the mission. The mission needs to take precedence is what it is. But the mission is always going to come first. And I think a lot of people maybe don't want to hear that. Uh, I'm just being brutally honest, like I get paid to produce outcomes, and I do that because I motivate and I effectively manage my people and I care for them, but I give them clear, concise direction to get to the objective.

That is wonderful.

So that's how I've always seen it myself.

And like in the Navy, we say mission first, people always. Yes, take care of your people, but make sure you do the mission. That's why you get paid the big bucks, right? Especially as a CEO. And, uh, and, and I think from what you also said, so I believe it's, uh, because you care about the people, because you love them, you want to make sure that they meet or exceed the standard.

Yeah, yeah. And, and if I could add there, the, the mission is about developing your people, because as a leader, it's outcomes, but your outcomes are tied to building leaders. So if you look at it from a perspective that, yes, you've got to achieve your mission, that's one of your missions. Your other mission is to build those folks that are going to carry on the institution when you are long gone. Because BZ, you and I, we have shelf lives. I'm at my end, right? What have I done to build the next leader as an outcome? And if I have not done that, I have failed.

That's powerful.

Like, that's my job to be able to do that. Uh, and if you could think about it that way, then I think you're, you're doing the institution a service and you're doing the mission and you're doing the nation a service. Because one day I want to sit on the, on the beach drinking Mai Tais and not worry about the people who are leading this country and leading the Navy. I know I could do that safely. It's a little bit selfish, I'll admit it. But no, you got, you gotta build your, your folks without a doubt. If you're thinking legacy and long-term.

Actually, my, my sea daddy, uh, should be watching us live, Captain Joel Ropschel. One thing he, he taught me was the mark of a leader is what happened to your mission when you are out of the office.

Left. Go on vacation for 2 weeks.

If nothing just falls apart when you are not there, you are a very, very bad leader in my opinion.

But exactly, it's going precisely doing the right thing.

Now we do have a question from, uh, Steven Robinson. Thanks, Bob. Uh, he's from New York, blah, blah, blah. Okay, here's his question for you. What's a common major mistake aspiring leaders make? And by the way, this is really the reason why I do this podcast every day, for people like Steven Robinson, so they can learn from the master. So what is, uh, a common mistake, major mistake?

Yeah, uh, great question. Here's a common mistake, is thinking you're perfect, thinking you're never going to make mistakes. And getting paralyzed because you're waiting for the perfect answer and the perfect solution. It ain't gonna come. As a leader, you get paid to think in the gray, and it's not binary, it's not linear. You're going to be dealing with some complex, challenging questions, and you're going to have to be able to mitigate the risk as much as possible. And then you got to make a decision. And guess what? If you fail, you fail. You know, you, you're going to learn from your mistakes. I tell my folks this all the time. I'm like, do not be afraid to make mistakes. Do not be afraid to make mistakes because you will grow from that mistake. If you are afraid to make a mistake because you wanna be perfect, you are risk averse and you don't belong to be a senior someday, right? You have to make calculated risks. And I'm not, I don't tell people to go out there haphazardly and just start making mistakes all day long. I'm just saying, don't try to be perfect. At the end of the day, you're getting paid to make decisions, and you got to be able to weigh the data that you have, and you're going to have to make a decision. And if you're perfect, you're going to drive yourself crazy, and you're going to drive your, your sailors or your subordinates, whoever it is, crazy because you're going to micromanage. And that— there's no way your organization will move to another level because you're doing that. It's going to be defunct and it's going to fail. So don't try to be perfect. That's one of the biggest mistakes I've learned really early is I try to be perfect because I was raised, hey, you know, you got to get all A's, you got to go into the military. I learned quickly, I'm like, nope, got to make mistakes to grow and stretch myself.

That is so, so good. I think one of your mentors too, he was my— Colin Powell used to say, you know, talking about analysis, he made decision when he had 40 to save 70% of the info.

Exactly, exactly.

But then it is too late, and you really get paid to make those decisions. Now, the other caveat I would add— one of my mentors told me, especially when you are a junior officer or junior enlisted, I think that's when you should make all of the mistakes you want because they're not gonna be very costly, they're not gonna, you know, damage national security or anything like that. Because I think the more senior you are— no, again, you are not perfect and you're going to make tech, but you just need to be careful that you get all of your learning, in my opinion, the more junior you are, because then the impact of your mistake is not going to affect an entire region or the national security of your country. Because some mistakes, we have to face it, are pretty much terminal, right? If you are a captain and admiral, depending on what you do, the Navy may just have to say bye-bye. But, uh, in, in a way, yeah, yeah, no, no, very good.

Very good. And, and just to add on that too is, um, if you make a mistake, be transparent about it and be accountable and own it. Right. In, in our line of work, you make a mistake and you're not transparent about it, it has cascading effects. So I used to always tell my sailors, I'm like, I will have much more grace on you if you just come forward and tell me you messed up. And, and as a leader, You've got to walk that walk too. I've made mistakes and I've told my sailors, I'm like, I made a mistake. I'm a human being. I'm a captain. I'm going to make little mistakes here and there too. If you think I'm a robot, dude, you're lost. So be transparent about your mistakes. Hold yourself accountable for that. Your troops will learn to appreciate and respect you if you come forward and tell them that you messed up also.

That is so Powerful. Be accountable. Because the other thing too is if you try to hide it, the mistake may become critical, whereas if you fess up right away, there's a lot of time to change, change things and improve. So we have another question from the audience, uh, Omina El Maki. She is from UAE. Wow, United Arab Emirates, working in the higher education sector at the university. She's passionate about uncovering the key drivers behind the Effective leadership and exploring what shapes and sustains great leaders. So, Sarah, what are key drivers behind effective leadership?

You know, effective leadership, I think, is being very self-aware and, uh, self-critiquing, right? Uh, I, I spent a lot of time in introspection about how I could be more effective, uh, in what I do. And I'll put it to you this way: after every day when I'm driving home from work I hot wash, I go through my head what I did and if I did it right and if I need to improve. Um, so if you could just self-critique yourself, do a lot of reading, listen to podcasts, um, but trying to learn more about the art of leadership and knowing who you are and what motivates you. Because if you can't lead yourself and understand yourself, you can't lead other people. So you have to be 100% clear on who you are as a person, what values you hold dearly to you, um, what are your goals. And then at that point, you can lead other people. Um, but I think a lot of it first and foremost is just leading yourself, right? And also knowing how to be a good follower. A lot of people think that nobody talks— and I, I wrote about this the other day— nobody talks about being a good follower. You have to be a good follower to be a good leader, because anywhere in any organization you go, you're going to follow somebody. You're, you're going to be accountable to somebody else. The way you can make yourself a really good leader is being a good follower and providing forceful backup to your boss, right? Because you're, you're in those shoes. So learning about yourself, learning about, uh, what you did hot washing, and like gaining what you did before, and also just being a really good follower and learning to be a good follower is going to make you and set the keel, the foundation, if you will, for being a good leader, in my opinion.

Wow, that is powerful, sir. And, uh, Stephen Robinson says, powerfully say, well shared. I constantly tell myself there is more to what I know in life. That is great. All right, sir, so what are you learning right now?

Um, a couple things. Uh, I Part of, part of my growth from a technical perspective is I'm studying to be a certified information security manager. So I'm, I'm, I'm working towards my CISM side of it. Uh, so my technical side, uh, the other things I'm learning right now is I'm learning just that about how I take what I've learned in the military as I'm transitioning and how I'm going to be able to apply it. And, and who am I? The Navy's given me a bit of an identity, but I still need to know in my heart, in my core, like, who am I? So I'm doing a lot of self-reflection. I've, I've joined another organization to help me with my transition. So there's a lot of things from the softer side, if you will, that I'm trying to learn and how I could transition that to become effective in the, in my next career path. So, and I've always believed about, you gotta nurture both as a leader, your, your softer skills and your technical side. Right? You can't— there's two sides of it. You want to— I'm not saying be a technical expert about things, but things that do, that maybe don't come easily for you, those harder skills that people are going to be briefing you someday, you have to understand, harness that, but also harness the power of who you are as an individual for your growth. And that's what I'm kind of doing right now.

That is quite powerful. Again, General Colin Powell said, you don't want your ego to be closely aligned to your position because If you lose your position, then you want to know who you are. It actually happened to me 2014, I think it was the Navy, actually they did kick me out because of some health issue. But I can tell you for the first quarter, I was like, I don't know who I am, like I lost completely the sense of myself. I was completely lost, but no, thank God I was able to overcome those challenges and get back in. Uniform. But yeah, it can definitely happen to you, especially when you are in the Navy, high tempo, discipline, and then all of a sudden you are there in the industry and it's a completely different world. Yeah, you can be very, very lost. So knowing who you are, your values, very important. Okay, next question. I have this coin which I love. One side it says success, the other side it says failure. So I believe success, failures are two sides of the same coin. And we know about all of your all the great things you have done, but how has failure shaped your life?

Ah, wow.

Um, failure is tough. I mean, we all fail. Um, what I learned about failure is that the doors are never shut. Um, I think people take failure and, uh, you know, Mike Tyson had a very famous quote, and I'm going to quote him on this because I've done it a million times. Uh, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Yeah. So what really defines your character is what you do after failure that matters the most. For me, it's pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep pressing forward. So as a leader, leaders should think about mental and physical stamina, mental stamina, and the ability to be resilient. So for me, it was all about like taking failure in perspective, because every time I've failed, I've got back up. And I've realized, especially in the Navy, the Navy can be very forgiving at times too. But I know that if you work hard and you recover, doors do open, right? Failure. I get it. It's a spectrum of failure. But, and I look at that too. Like I look at sailors oftentimes, if I've ever had to take the captain's mast, like I look at their character after they have failed. And I'm like, how is he or she doing after they went to mast? And if I see that there's growth in there, I will go— I will, I will reward them, I guess you could say, or I will give them— I will give them opportunities to continue their path. That to me speaks volumes because those are the people we want leading this country in the future, is ones that are going to get kicked in the dirt, but they're going to get themselves back up and get right back in the fight. And that's this type of resilience that we need from people. So For me, it was like failure is going to happen, but how I'm going to get up and recover from it is really what people are going to see my character as and how I want to be seen as in the future by other people and myself.

Powerful. So can you share about a moment, one of the greatest fear, whether in your career or life, that you were able to overcome?

Yeah, I think— I think when I came in the Navy, I was like overly concerned about my reputation. Like, oh my gosh, I'm going to fail here. And people are going to think I'm a complete failure. And I, and it kind of ate at me. I mean, as a young junior officer, every junior officer, I really believe this. Like, we're not 100% confident what we're doing. And we're, I'd say scared, but like, we're concerned about our reputation because we're just starting off in a new field. And I was always concerned that if I failed, like, people would just look at me like I'm a complete waste, and that guy doesn't know what he's doing, he's incompetent. I think I was able to kind of flip it and said, look, I don't need to be focusing on my reputation as much as my integrity. Like, my integrity is more important about myself and what I'm doing in the moment than just my reputation. So I kind of flipped the narrative and flipped the script to stop focusing One more time, please.

Your integrity.

Yeah, my integrity is much more important than my reputation was. I, I should be focusing on myself and what the things I do that are right is much more of a powerful external view than just my reputation. A reputation is one part of it and how people perceive you. Your integrity is something that you want to focus on and make sure that you're building all the time. That is really that people look at, especially your, your subordinates and your sailors or whoever it may be, that matters, that really defines your reputation. Not if you made a failure here and there, that doesn't define you. It's your integrity.

Wow, that is, that is powerful. So who are some of the people that, you know, we should know, your mentors or thought leaders, people you follow?

Sure, yeah, absolutely. Um, and, and I'm going to be honest here, I don't have one mentor. I have many mentors and my mentors are from very young people to very, to senior people. But I tell you what, out of every mentorship opportunity I've had, the one mentorship piece and level that is always proved time and time again that it's more important is peer mentorship, right? Like everybody is looking like, for me it was like I knew where my vision was, but like how do I get to my benchmarks?. And it was looking at people who have just done something. And for me, I was like, okay, that's a mentor to me because they're gonna help me get to the next piece. It's like General McChrystal, you make your bed every morning. One task leads to the next thing. To me, it was the same way as like one milestone at a time, one milestone at a time, one mentor at a time for this very opportunity, another mentor for this time. So it was junior people, senior people, and mid-grade people.

Wow.

But, but also, like, even with mentorship, like, my kids are my mentors in some cases. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna break this down for you. A lot of people look at the whole Gen Z thing and Gen X and like, oh my gosh, you know, the sky is falling.

Stop.

Like, start looking at perspectives, like different perspectives besides your own. Like, I don't care who you are, like, your rank doesn't— like, a lot of times, like, but if you bring a different perspective that is going to solve a problem for me, guess what? I really like you a lot because as leaders, you should be running to problems and solving them. That's your job as a leader— run and solve problems. So my kids give me perspectives that help me solve problems, and I'm like, wonderful, you know? And General Powell said it: the day your soldiers stop bringing you problems, you failed, right? So like, I, I, I think my kids— people, you should meet my kids and how they think. They're in college right now, and like Learning the younger generation is like exciting and fascinating because I know at some point, you know, they're going to be in the— maybe, maybe they'll work for you someday and you're going to understand where you're coming from and how to motivate them. But don't dismiss people. I tell people in DLI when they're my young sailors all the time, I'm like, you have a voice, like, use your voice. I'm going to tap you. You just graduated from high school, like, I want to know this. What are your thoughts? So I think people just It goes back to humility. You don't know everything, and they've got 18 years of a different perspective that could probably solve a problem that you've been working on that you don't even realize because you never gave them a chance.

That is, that is really, really powerful. One thing I, I would add, Pierre, mentoring is, is really important. I know in the IP community, we, at least for a long time, we had an official mentorship program if you came in as an ensign, a JG, they would assign a mentor to you whether you liked it or not, which, which was fine. But I always felt like it was important to me to always have a mentor who was maybe just, uh, one year ahead of me. This way, yep, they would go through the promotion, the qualification, the advancement exam, or whatever it is, and then I, I really would, would learn from them and then do the same for, for those, uh, behind me. So it's, it's quite powerful. And talking about Your kids being your mentor. I mentioned I wouldn't have made it as a CEO for the Global Network Operations Security Center in the Navy without my kids, because a third of my command, they were all Gen Zs. So I was really having challenges trying to understand them, motivate them, because they are made a little bit different, to tell you the truth. I went to boot camp, my drill sergeant would be like 2 inches from my face and cursing and all kinds of stuff. But these kids, you talk to them one way, No, they just crumble. They want to take time out or whatever. I don't understand this. But anyway, my daughters, they really help me better lead and inspire them. We have more questions on the chat. Let's see. Muffin says, successful leader, I think we already did that. Oh, here we go. We have Selena Hudson. She says, well said, good evening. Another question from Omima. How does maintaining a balance between mind and body through fitness help you become a resilient and emotionally grounded leader? I like that.

Yeah, yeah, wonderful question. That's a great question. I'm all about building your character, your mind, and your body. So if you look at it from a triad perspective, right, cybersecurity, we think about triad, CIA, like when I think about the triad of successful leaders, it's all three of them. I think if you take one of them out, you're not gonna be as effective as you can as a leader. And for me, I'm a fitness junkie. I watch what I eat, and I've really put a priority on this because I think that what you put in your mouth impacts your mind, your body, how you approach things, how you approach problems. Your sleep is very important. When I came in the Navy, people glorified not getting enough sleep. People would brag, "Oh, I had 2 hours." Nowadays, I'm like, "You had 2 hours of sleep? Like, I don't want you on my team. Like, you are not gonna make a decision." And in our line of work, it's like all about like your brain and how you're making decisions. So when people glorify a lack of sleep, like, I instantly don't wanna be around you because you're not safe.

Hmm, that's powerful.

So I always felt that you needed to have all the 3 in there. And I, I get it, like most of us, I'm a practical kind of guy, like it's, it's impossible to do, but it's amazing what you could do when you build a habit. Like build habits, and habits take about 17 days to build a habit. And if you could cut things out of your life that just don't add any value, then you'd be amazed at how the congruence and the convergence of those three things are going to help you become such a more effective person. So mind, body, character, all three things that are near and dear to my heart that people should strive to as leaders to make them more effective.

That is, that is powerful. Nefren says great leaders don't know everything, but they know how to bring the right people together to solve problems.

Exactly.

That's exactly what you need. Okay. If you could choose three people to have dinner with, sir, who would you choose and why? They could be alive, dead, or Wow.

Yeah. You know, um, I'd love to have dinner with Captain Joe Rochefort, uh, who was down in Seisho Hypo, who broke the JN-25 operational code that led to decisive victory at the Battle of Midway. That guy was the epitome of like silent, humble leadership who worked extremely hard to be able to, to get us where we needed to in, in the Battle of Midway. Um, I'd love to just you know, sit down and pick his brain. Ronald Reagan— Ronald Reagan is one of my heroes. I love his community, the great communicator, his sense of humor, his humility. I mean, he embodied so much of what I think a leader should. And what he did, you know, to basically bring on the— like, stop the Cold War with Star Wars and his communication style. I mean, I'd love to just sit there and pick his brain. And to understand like where he got where he's at right now.

One more?

Uh, gosh, let's see, the other person, you know, that's a tough one, but I think another person would probably be maybe my great-great-grandparents or one of them at least. You know, I don't have any memories of them, but I think it's important to have a connection to your past and history. And I don't really have that. It's not like I can get into like the genealogy studies of Iran. It's just like these records don't exist right now. But I would have loved to just had dinner with them just to get a sense of who they were and what they did. I don't live in— I don't live in history. I believe in forward momentum. But I think so much of what we know about our past really helps us avoid the pitfalls of things that are just subconsciously baked in us. Through genetics that I would love to know, or things that are genetically ingrained in us we just don't know that we could bring out to make us better people.

Wow, that is powerful. So what, uh, books do you recommend to the audience? I think one of them you said was this one.

Why? Yeah, I love that series, The D-Day Through the German Eyes, uh, and it's a series where it looks at the Battle of Bulge, Battle of Normandy, Through another perspective, through the adversary's perspective. And I love looking at problems from different people's perspectives. And I love to see like what they were— we've always get the American perspective. But do you ever get through the adversary's perspective and, and understand how they're thinking and how different it might be from ours or how similar it is? Like, I love— I find that really fascinating. And I think as leaders, We ought to look at problems from multiple different perspectives. So if you could train yourself to look at different things, it is phenomenal in my book.

Yeah, in cybersecurity, something that CISOs definitely need to be doing, seeing.

Exactly.

And what, what about this, uh, this one here? My—

yeah, so this is great because it's my old boss. The Indo-Pakop J-2, Admiral Mike Studeman, retired. In this book, he's got like 50-some-odd leadership lessons that resonated. And what he would do is a lot of his book is built upon leadership minutes that he would send us every month or so about like things you should do, leadership lessons. And like, it was just a small little email. And I'm like, that's a great idea. I'm like, and I started doing it Nick Tam's pack. And then I saw he published a book and I'm like, and they're not like long things. So like, you know, sometimes you're reading a book, you're like dwelling, it's going on and on. They're really good, like tangible insights and real life experiences from his leadership experience that I found it's such an easy read. I mean, you could read it pretty quickly, but I got it on my Kindle. But if you, if you really want to get his insights from, from like no kidding warfighter and exceptionally bright articulate man who writes very well, Highly recommend.

Powerful. What about this one?

Yeah, yeah, Mad Dog Mattis. What I like about this book is like it's really blunt, it's right to the point. It's— I'd say it's gory, but like I, I love the leadership side. And it goes with like Jocko Wilco and David Goggins. If you listen to his— some of his podcasts, they're, they're all— they're very blunt and to the point, right? To the point where like there's no ambiguity in where he's coming from. And I think, you know, as leaders, like we owe it to our sailors and our subordinates to just, our job's to get rid of ambiguity. It's not to be ambiguous ourself. How many times have you heard like a senior so-and-so, like talking about strategy and you're just like, ugh, like what's going on? Like, no, be to the point, tell them what you mean and what you mean at a time and then let them go and have clarity. But I love Mattis because he was very clear and concise in how he executed his command and control and how he delegated down and how he trusted his commanders. That, I mean, it was golden. It was golden. So it's a great book if you want to get an opportunity to read it. I'd highly recommend that.

And also, by the way, I do have an article I wrote about him about maybe 3 weeks ago, Leadership Lessons from General James Mattis, timeless principles for military and tech leaders. If you guys have time, please Read that too. Okay, we, we have one more. This book here, Band of Brothers.

Oh yeah, I mean, this is all about the brotherhood. This is all about, uh, camaraderie, um, folks going through everything from like basic training all the way up into the European theater. And the camaraderie and how everybody relied on each other, uh, to keep, you know, their butts safe. I think to me, like that brought out just the warmness in my heart about how we are in organizations and how tight we should be. Because none of, one of us has all the answers to get through the problems, but the collective unity and what everybody brings to the fight and has a leader like Lieutenant Withers, who was very an empathetic type of leader that people really liked. It was just like a golden book, you know, to read. And the series is even, it's great too. If you get a chance to see the series, I'd highly recommend it. For anybody who wants to look at small leadership tactics and how to leverage that in a career capacity.

And also the other thing I do when I read some of those books and watch movies, which, uh, I think I was a JG when my commander— Commander Scott is the one who taught me how to look for leadership lesson in movies, uh, I also look for not just what to do but also what not to do, what kind of leader do not want to be. Because about our brothers, there is one, one one of those there. You don't want to do that. But, and then the last movie, um, Platoon, why do you recommend that one?

So what you just said is very apropos, because what Platoon teaches is, is the failures of leadership, the failures of what happens when failures fail to act, that things go out of control and crimes are committed. And if you haven't seen the movie, I won't give it away, but it's, it's, it, it reinforces what you should not do. Some of my best lessons in leadership was looking at people who were in leadership positions and doing the exact opposite of what they were doing because it was harmful and toxic. And when you look at Platoon, you can see the— where the failure was and what should have been done to prevent the atrocities that happened with those two units when they're out in the field.

That is powerful. Steve Robertson says, absolutely, on the mind-body work. I've been with yoga, weight, martial arts, and mutual body nutrition. Interesting what the body and mind can do once generally natural.

That is precisely so true.

Okay, so we actually are out of time now, but can you give me 5 more minutes and we're gonna bring this pen down? I mean, I could be talking with you all day and all night, sir, but yeah, we do need to bring this to an end. So one question I wanted to ask is, uh, if you had one and only one you have one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Um, I think my final contribution would be to make sure my family understood that they were mission one at all times. It's very hard for us in the military when you're working so hard and you don't have the time, but you realize that you're— everything you do really is for your family, for your kids' future. And to make sure that they can live in a country as free and safe as what we have. But I, I'd want to reinforce to them, like, they were my priority and they were mission one from the beginning, and they're going to be mission one because your, your legacy is going to live with your family. Everybody comes out of the— everybody comes out of the military, they'll remember you, sure, to some extent, but your family is where your legacy should be, and they need to know that you were— they were number one throughout the journey.

Especially in the military, there's not telling how many, uh, anniversaries, birthdays, and things.

Exactly, exactly.

But so, uh, when you wake up in the morning, sir, what is one problem you would like to solve?

Got lots of problems. Go back to sleep. I want to go back to sleep.

Okay, that, that works. Okay, we are toward the end. Uh, what do to add value back to you? How can we make a difference? Thank you.

Yeah, yeah. No, uh, no, and no, I know you're short on time, but I, you know, you've, you've already added value by having this platform. Um, if you want to make a difference, all I say is whoever— everyone's out there on the net, pass the lessons on for God's sakes, right? I mean, like, there's, there's things that are written in textbook with leadership theory that won't be in practical use. Like, all I'm saying is use that. And personally, for me, challenge me. I've got assumptions I learn when people are challenging me and challenging my assumptions. And send me a podcast that's contrarian in nature, a book, an idea. I grow as a leader when I'm forced to rethink how I do things and how I rewire myself. I think that's how we grow as leaders, to be challenged, not for it to be easy. It needs to be challenging, right?

Fantastic. And everyone please follow the captain on LinkedIn, Michael Sal Lehe. It's right there on your screen. Okay. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, standing at this incredible career you've had, the most powerful Navy in the world. Actually, you are a captain. That means you are only one promotion away from becoming what I call a demagogue, an admiral. So what would you say to the 17-year-old 17-year-old Michael?

Yeah, I think I'd say is don't take yourself seriously and learn to take a punch. Uh, I think that's the thing is, uh, uh, I think a lot of people, if you take yourself too seriously, you're not willing to be humble and, and learn to roll with the punches, you're in the long line of business. I wish I would have told myself that beginning. I would have probably taken less lickings as I was when I was an ensign on my first ship. Is don't, don't take yourself so seriously, man. Like you're, you're just like anybody else. And have fun as much as you can, work hard, and dedicate yourself to excellence in everything that you do.

Powerful. Okay, we are coming toward the very, very end. Uh, let's see, uh, Nathan says thank you.

Thank you, Nathan, good to see you.

Uh, Selena says she agrees 100%, family first. And, uh, Amima says thank you as well.

You're welcome.

We are at the very, very end. This is going to Gonna be really, really quick. Uh, what did you want to be when you were a kid, sir?

Uh, I wanted to be a pilot. That's what I wanted to be.

You almost, almost did it. At least you went for it. Almost. Okay, what were 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Oh boy, I was extremely inquisitive. Uh, I was very motivated, and, uh, I was very sociable.

Okay, as an adult?

Uh, uh, intense. Focused, and, uh, I'd say probably very driven.

Okay, very good. All right, this is the very, very end of— but before I end it, this very unique question I should have asked you, sir, that I haven't asked during this podcast. Thanks again for, for your time. Any, anything you wanted me to ask?

Uh, no, I, I think, um, I, I think you answered it all. I mean, I think, uh, you know, I go back to the question about what, what you could fix when you wake up in the morning. I don't know if I mentioned this, but We tend to overcomplicate things, I think, as individuals. If I could just fix complexity into simplifying things, I would love it. I think we waste a lot of time as leaders trying to overcomplicate things that should be as simple as they should be. And if I could fix that for everybody, that is nirvana for me.

The key principle: keep it simple, stupid.

Exactly. Precisely.

Okay, so the very, very last question then is what is one word that represents our shared experience in this podcast today? What one word comes to mind?

Uh, I would say insightful.

I think I'm just so grateful. Thank you so much, sir, for being here and sharing your knowledge to the future generation of US military leader, but tech leaders too, because like Vice Admiral Frank Morley said, leadership is leadership.

All right, thank you, thank you, thank you very much, Bizzy, and thanks to everybody out there. I appreciate the time. You guys have a great weekend.

All right, guys, uh, thank you so much for being here. Hopefully you've learned something from the captain. I am so grateful he's been here. And, uh, keep typing questions if you have any in the, uh, comment, letting us know what you are grateful for and where you come from, what city, what state, what, what country. I, I really love, uh, receiving feedback when I talk to my guests. Because believe it or not, the very first podcast I did 4 years ago, it was just me. I was talking to myself, nobody there to tell me they were listening or where they come from and interact with me. So thank you so much for doing that. Before we end, I just want to remind everyone that next I will have a guest. She is my mentor, Shelley Archambault. She's going to be here. She's the author of the best-selling book, Unapologetically Ambitious. You don't want to miss it. It should be in about a couple of weeks. And then I'm also going to have another one of my mentors, Tim Elmore, with the Maxwell Leadership Foundation and organization. He has a book coming up November 4th, The Future Begins with Z. I definitely, I've already ordered mine. I can't hardly wait to get copy. So Dr. Tim Elmore will be on the Leadership and Success Podcast, I believe it's November 7th, right after his book is published. So thanks again for being with us. So until next time, this is Coach BZ, and thank you so much for being here.

Bye-bye.

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.