S4:E87 🎙️LIVE Playing the Infinite Game

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Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, I'm John. This podcast is for you.

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his mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to serve as a pivot point in the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including—

What if your next keynote speaker could bridge the worlds of national defense, Silicon Valley innovation, and global leadership? Meet Bob Fabien Zinga, award-winning keynote speaker, U.S. Navy Information Warfare Commander, and trusted executive in technology, leadership, and strategy. With over 20 years of proven leadership in the US Department of Defense, the US Navy, higher education, and the high-tech sector, from startups to Fortune 500 companies, BZ delivers keynote experiences that inspire, challenge, and equip leaders for real-world impact. BZ speaks with authority on cybersecurity and national security, strategies to safeguard critical assets in an age of constant threat, Artificial intelligence and emerging technology: how to innovate responsibly while staying ahead of disruption. Leadership and corporate governance: building resilient, ethical, and high-performance organizations in any environment. Every keynote blends military precision, Silicon Valley agility, and boardroom strategy, delivering practical takeaways that leaders can apply immediately. Audiences leave inspired, informed, and ready to lead with clarity and courage. Whether you're hosting a global conference, corporate summit, or leadership retreat, book Bizzy to energize your event and empower your audience to lead in a rapidly changing world.

Hello everyone, this is Coach Bizzy. Thank you for joining me this evening. Today is Sunday, October 12th. It's about 7 PM here. In California. It's almost 10 PM on the East Coast. So thank you for being with us today. Let's start with our moment of gratitude. This will take but a moment. And if you would, close your eyes, put yourself in your happy place, take a deep breath, and think about one thing you are grateful for today. I think today, once again, I am grateful for life. Life is so precious because as long as I am alive, as long as I have good health, there is hope for me. My tomorrow can be better than my today. My tomorrow can be better than my yesterday. So I am so grateful to be in the land of the living. Somebody this morning didn't wake up, but I am still here and I'm grateful for that. So let us know what you are grateful for. Type it in the comment. And today we are going to be talking about a pretty important subject. It's a podcast and interview that my primary mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, had with Simon Sinek. It was about living the— playing the infinite game. So I am going to give you, looks like, about a 30 minutes or so rundown of the 1-hour-long interview they had. And if you go to my LinkedIn page, you can click on the link and watch the full hour-long interview. So I'm going to have my AI agent give you the 30-minute breakdown. And if you have any question for me, please type it in the comment. Let me know where you coming from, where are you joining us from? What city, what state. And, uh, let us also know, uh, what you are grateful for today. And I also appreciate it if you like this event and then, uh, repost it into your feed or tag somebody within your sphere of influence, uh, to watch this podcast with you. Here we go.

Welcome to the Deep Dive.

Great to be here today.

We're taking on, uh, quite a mission actually. We're looking to synthesize the wisdom of two real titans of leadership. John Maxwell and Simon Sinek.

Yeah. And importantly, we're not just doing a book report here.

No, exactly. This is about custom tailoring insights, really high-octane stuff specifically designed for you, the listener, especially if you're operating where the stakes are always high.

We're talking military command, elite operational teams, you know, that fast-paced, often unforgiving world of tech leadership.

That's it. And this is where Maxwell's deep focus on fundamental character, right? It meets Sinek's emphasis on enduring purpose and vision, particularly, you know, his whole concept of the infinite game.

And when you weave those two philosophies together, you get something pretty powerful. It's not just a framework, it's, well, it's more like a set of actionable directives, things you can actually do, right?

Our source material, it's kind of distilled this down into 7 essential principles. And our goal today for this deep dive is really to move past the surface definitions. We want to extract the nuances. Maybe the trade-offs involved, and definitely the specific daily actions that can shift your mindset. Moving from just short-term managerial wins—

to something more lasting.

Yeah.

That long-term resilient influence.

Exactly. It's about sparking those aha moments, the kind you can hopefully apply almost immediately.

And we really need to go deep because let's face it, for this audience, leadership isn't just about making things run smoothly.

No.

It's often about survival. About mission continuity. It's critical.

So we've structured our conversation to start, well, at the beginning, the bedrock foundational purpose.

Makes sense.

Then we'll move through those vital interpersonal skills, listening, trust, before we wrap up with how leaders handle the outside pressures, you know, change and sacrifice.

Sounds like a plan. Where do we kick things off?

Okay, let's unpack this starting right where strong leadership has to begin inside with the internal wiring, so to speak. Principle number 1 is all about strengthening your foundation, right?

Building that personal resilience before the storm hits, not during. Yeah. And what's really crucial here, I think, is how proactive this is meant to be. It's not reactive.

Explain that a bit more.

Well, Maxwell talks a lot about his Law of the Lid, right? The idea that your own ability, your character, basically sets the ceiling for your organization.

Your lid determines the potential.

Exactly. If your lid is low, the team, the organization, it just can't rise any higher than you. So you have to work on yourself first.

And the sources really hammer this point home. The moment of crisis, that is not the time to figure out who you are, what you stand for.

Absolutely not. Too late then.

You need to have done that work already, clarified your values, clearly articulated your why, your purpose when things are calm.

Right. Because when the pressure cooker environment hits, You don't suddenly invent your character.

No, you reveal it. It's what's already there. It's what you lean on when, frankly, maybe your competence isn't enough.

Precisely. And this also means— and this could be tough— you have to practice servant leadership consistently.

Consistently being the key word.

Yeah. Not just when it feels convenient or when you think someone's watching. This is often where leaders in these high-stakes fields can struggle a bit. Why is that? Because You know, traditional command structures, they often seem to reward that top-down, directional leadership style, giving orders.

Right. The hierarchy.

But both Maxwell and Sinek are pretty insistent here. Servant leadership needs to be your default setting, your go-to posture, not just an option you pull out sometimes.

Okay, let's make that really concrete for, say, a commanding officer or a senior tech lead listening to this. What does consistently practicing servant leadership actually look like day to day?

Well, it could mean actively seeking out the toughest, most complex problems your team is facing, the logistical nightmares, the bureaucratic hurdles, and taking those on yourself.

Running interference for them.

Exactly. Or ensuring your team has everything they need, the resources, the training, maybe even the institutional backup or protection before you start focusing on your own next promotion or career move.

So it's that daily sacrifice. Maybe convenience, maybe ego.

Spot on. And the source material gives us two really potent questions for self-reflection here. The first one is, "What kind of character did you reveal during your last crisis?" Oof, that's direct.

Did you show calm confidence, or was it more anxiety, maybe looking for someone to blame?

And the second question hits that proactive versus reactive distinction hard.

Yeah.

When the moment came, did you lean in and lead, or did you wait for others to take action?

That really separates the two, doesn't it? A reactive leader kind of waits for permission or maybe waits for everyone to agree.

Right. While a proactive leader who's already anchored by clear values, they just step into that uncertainty. They fill the void.

Think about a major security breach in a tech company.

OK.

The proactive leader, the one whose foundation is solid, they've probably already defined roles for this, run drills, maybe even done what they call a dark launch practice run.

They're prepared. Yeah.

Whereas the reactive leader, you see them revealed when they spend that first critical hour just trying to figure out who's supposed to handle comms, wasting precious time.

So your foundation, what you build beforehand, it dictates your reaction speed and effectiveness.

And that stability, that proactive stance, it's absolutely essential because it directly sets up the organization for the long haul. Which actually leads us perfectly into principle 2.

Which is Senec's territory.

Right. The infinite game. Leading beyond the next milestone.

This is pure Senec, yeah. But it has massive implications for any leader who's trying to apply Maxwell's ideas about sustained influence too. They fit together.

So we need to be really clear on the difference he draws between a finite game and this infinite game.

Definitely. Finite game is something like Hitting your quarterly sales target, winning a specific contract, maybe achieving a certain rank by a certain date.

Fixed rules, clear finish line. You know who won and lost.

Exactly. You know when it's over.

Right. But the infinite game, that's different. Think about things like maintaining national security or evolving a company through massive tech shifts or sustaining excellence in a military unit over decades.

There's no defined end.

Nope.

The goal therefore isn't to win because you literally can't win an infinite game.

So what is the goal?

The goal is just to keep playing effectively, to ensure the organization continues, that it stays healthy, that the mission endures long term. And for Sinek, that requires having a just cause.

That clear, compelling purpose that inspires people to stick around, to sacrifice, to stay loyal even when it's hard.

Twice, twice.

Now, this immediately makes us confront what the source has called the metrics trap.

Ah, yes. This is a big one, especially for high achievers. People in the Navy, people in Silicon Valley, they're often laser-focused on measurable results, KPIs, metrics.

And we have this quote: Metrics help us measure progress, but they are not the finish line. The game does not end.

That really captures the tension, doesn't it, in these high-stakes jobs. For a military leader, the finite metric might be, say, the readiness scores for this specific deployment cycle. How good are we right now?

Makes sense.

You need that.

You do. But the infant game perspective demands you also prioritize things like cross-training junior personnel, deep knowledge transfer so experience isn't lost when people rotate out, developing the actual character of your people.

And those things, they might actually hurt this quarter's readiness numbers, right? Taking time away from immediate tasks.

Often, yeah. But they're essential if you want the institution itself to thrive 10, 20 years down the line.

Yeah.

It's a trade-off.

That's a tough balance. What about in tech?

Similar idea. The finite game might be the next funding round, the IPO, this quarter's stock price, landing that huge client.

All important milestones.

Of course.

But the infinite game leader sees them as just that—milestones, not the destination. Real, lasting success is building a culture that's resilient, a technology platform that can adapt across multiple market shifts, long after the original founder is gone.

And this is where Maxwell's ideas about influence really connect with Senec's vision. How so? Well, think about Maxwell's Law of Reproduction, the leader's responsibility to develop other leaders. If you're only ever focused on hitting the next finite target, you're probably not investing enough in developing your people for the long run. Exactly. You end up starving the very pipeline that's needed to sustain the mission after you. You're maximizing for the short term, but potentially capping the organization's future potential. You're playing to win this battle, not to endure the war.

So the challenge for you, the listener, is if you shift your focus, if you stop just chasing the next milestone and start building towards a vision that outlasts you, how does that change what you do day to day?

Does it mean maybe slowing down this one project slightly to make sure the knowledge transfer is solid, to ensure resilience is built in?

That question right there, that defines the leap from being just a manager to being an Infinite Game Leader.

OK, so shifting gears a bit, we've talked about the long view, the vision, but the infinite game isn't played alone.

No, definitely not. It absolutely requires deep connection, real commitment from the whole team.

Which brings us to the interpersonal core and principle number 3, recognizing that listening is a superpower, leading with empathy.

And I think we really need to pause on Sinek's definition of listening here. Because it sounds simple, but it's actually quite profound. What is it again? He says, "Hearing is understanding the words that are said to you. Listening is trying to get to the meaning of those words." Okay, hearing versus listening.

Meaning, not just words. Right.

Think of it like this: hearing is just data processing. Auditory input comes in. Listening, though, that's active. It's pattern recognition plus emotional intelligence.

It requires effort.

A lot of effort, intellectual and emotional effort, to figure out the context, the intent, maybe the unstated concerns hiding behind the words.

And in these high-stakes environments we're talking about, those unstated concerns— They're often gold.

The things that make that junior sailor or that new engineer hesitate to speak up fully, that can be the most critical piece of intelligence you get all week.

It's interesting, the sources mentioned John Maxwell actually admitted he struggled with listening early in his career.

Yeah, he talked about evolving. He moved from being what he called a directional leader. Meaning? Meaning primarily focused on giving clear orders, setting the direction, and expecting compliance. Get it done. Okay. To becoming a conversational leader. And what does that look like? A conversational leader asks questions, powerful, clarifying questions. They genuinely value input, even if they don't agree with it initially. They're seeking understanding first, and that builds trust through real dialogue.

That sounds crucial, especially in structures that are naturally hierarchical, like the military or even some tech firms. Absolutely. But let's play devil's advocate for a second. There's a tension here, isn't there? In a real crisis combat, a system meltdown, you need speed, command and control. Doesn't that conversational style clash with the need for rapid decisions?

That's a great question, and it's a common concern. But the synthesis here offered an answer. You have to lay the groundwork for conversational leadership before the crisis hits. Ah, back to the foundation. Exactly. If you've been consistently listening, genuinely valuing input during peacetime or during normal operations, then when the chaos erupts, your team already trusts your judgment. And maybe more importantly, they trust that you've already considered perspectives like theirs in your planning.

So the conversational leader actually earns the right to be directional when speed is absolutely essential.

Precisely. The trust is already baked in.

So empathy isn't just a soft skill then. It's actually a strategic tool. It helps secure genuine commitment. Totally.

Think about it. If you're a team lead, practicing this means instead of immediately shutting down an idea like, no, we always use standard protocol, you ask something like, okay, help me understand, why do you think that approach might create a vulnerability down the line?

You're drawing them out, showing you value their thinking.

And the effect is huge. It shifts people from just complying, following the rules because they have to or fear the consequences, to genuine commitment, following the mission because they feel heard, valued, like they're part of it.

Compliance is brittle, you could say. Commitment is resilient.

Well put. And the check-in suggested in the sources is simple but really cuts to the chase. How often do you actually stop, put everything else down, and truly listen to the most junior person on your team when they bring you a problem?

Are you just acknowledging them or are you making them feel genuinely heard? Big difference. Huge difference. And that level of active investment, maybe even vulnerability, it sets the stage perfectly for Principle 4.

Which is all about trust.

Right? Building trust. Leaders go first. Yeah.

The sources are really clear and frankly uncompromising on this. Trust isn't automatic. It doesn't just come with the rank or the title.

You can't just demand it. Nope.

It has to be earned every single day through consistent, trustworthy actions.

Maxwell frames this using something called the mirror test. I think we need to unpack that properly because it flips the responsibility entirely.

Let's do it. The mirror test basically asks the leader to look inward. Maxwell's point is that your followers shouldn't be the ones wondering, can I trust my leader? Okay. Instead, you, the leader, should be looking in the mirror every single day and asking yourself, Am I trustworthy?

Wow. So it completely shifts the burden. If there's a trust deficit in the organization, it's always the leader's fault first. You own it. OK, so what does trustworthy look like in daily actions? It's got to be more than just don't lie, right?

Oh, much more. Sinek comes at this from what he calls an investment view. He says trust is actually the risk you take by choosing to trust first. An investment. Yeah, like love almost. It needs constant tending, renewal. It's not just a transaction where you trade trust for performance, you have to put trust out there first.

So what are the pillars of being trustworthy daily?

According to the sources, it seems to boil down to 4 things, really. Competence. You gotta know your stuff. Integrity. Your actions match your words. Reliability. You do what you say you'll do. And availability. You're actually present and accessible.

Okay. Competence, integrity, reliability, availability. For a military leader, that means what? Demonstrating skill, sticking to the rules, being there for your people, following through.

Exactly. And if you fail on one of those, say you delegate a task, but then you hover and micromanage constantly.

You're failing the reliability test. You're showing you don't actually trust them.

Right. And probably the competence test too, maybe suggesting you don't trust their skills or your own ability to delegate effectively.

So practically speaking, the sources say you model trust by delegating meaningful responsibility. Not just the grunt work. Yes.

You have to give your team ownership of something that has real impact, maybe even carries some visible risk. If they only ever handle the trivial stuff, the message you're sending is clear: I don't trust you when it really counts.

And then comes the acid test. What happens when they fail?

Ah, the moment of failure. This is critical. Leaders have to own their own mistakes publicly. Take the hit for system failures. But— But— They need to share credit generously when things go well. And absolutely crucial, you must publicly back your people up, protect them when they make an honest mistake while operating within the responsibility you gave them.

So publicly standing by that junior team member who maybe messed up a software deployment or missed something on patrol?

Yes, that is Sinek's Circle of Safety made real. It sends an instant, powerful message. The risk is shared. I've got your back.

Because if a leader only takes credit for successes but pushes blame downward, for failures, they shatter that circle of safety.

Trust evaporates, and that infinite game you were trying to play, it just becomes brittle, finite, and everyone starts playing defense.

So the reflection for you, the listener, is maybe, where can I model this kind of trust this week? Where can I take a calculated risk on someone junior, and how will I show up, protect them if it doesn't pan out perfectly?

Answering that honestly dictates the real depth of your influence.

Okay, so we've built this internal resilience through strong foundations Active listening, earn trust. That's what prepares us to face the constant turbulence outside. Which inevitably comes. Right. Which brings us to Principle 5: How leaders handle that turbulence. It's the courage to pivot.

Leading through change. Yeah. This section really dives into that core leadership tension, doesn't it? The pull between clinging to what worked in the past. The comfort zone. Versus the often uncomfortable need to adapt to what's happening right now? The sources are pretty blunt. Adaptation isn't optional if you want to endure.

There's a really sharp observation here, one that makes you stop and think. Leaders go where the people are, not the other way around.

What does that mean exactly?

Well, I don't think it means compromising your core values, but it does mean you have to acknowledge the reality on the ground, the actual threat landscape, the real market conditions, your team's current capabilities, even if that reality forces a change in direction that feels painful or inconvenient.

So both Maxwell and Sinek are really emphasizing that leadership isn't just about holding steady, maintaining the status quo.

No, it's about constant adaptation to better serve the mission. Because sticking to the way we've always done it is basically a finite mindset.

It's a guaranteed way to become irrelevant, especially in volatile fields like defense or tech.

Let's look at that Cinec team example during the COVID disruption. Good one.

Yeah. Their main business, big in-person leadership events, essentially vanished overnight.

So what did they do? They didn't just wait and hope things went back to normal.

Nope. They pivoted hard, reimagined their whole delivery model, shifted rapidly to virtual events, created new kinds of online content.

The key insight there, I think, is that they changed the how— the way they delivered their service.

Right. The delivery mechanism, the structure.

But they held fiercely onto their why, that just cause of inspiring better leadership. They had the courage to let go of the old structure, the finite product, in order to save the mission, the infinite game. That takes guts. It does. So let's apply that. Imagine a Navy carrier strike group gets a brand new, maybe slightly buggy piece of electronic warfare gear. Okay. A finite-minded leader might resist integrating it because it messes up training schedules. Maybe dips initial readiness metrics for the current deployment. It's disruptive. Understandable in a way. But the infinite game leader, they see the necessary long-term shift in technology. They embrace the courage to pivot. They immediately start reallocating resources to train on this new, maybe difficult capability. Why?

Because they know sticking with the old comfortable process is eventually fatal in the long run. The adversary adapts.

Technology moves on. Or think about a fast-growing tech company hit with sudden major new regulations like GDPR or other data privacy laws.

Okay, big shift.

Sticking with the old product architecture, that guarantees legal trouble, loss of customer trust. It's failure.

So the courageous leader pivots.

Yeah, they see this disruption not just as a problem, but maybe as an opportunity, a chance to build a new privacy-first platform that actually leapfrogs competitors who are still dragging their feet, clinging to the old way.

And they train their team to see surprises not automatically as threats, but potentially as opportunities.

So the self-audit question here is really about letting go. Intentional decommissioning. What outdated processes, maybe old mindsets or cherished beliefs, do you need to actively discard right now to serve your people and your mission better in today's reality?

That takes real intellectual honesty. And often the sacrifice of personal comfort or familiarity.

And that word sacrifice, it's the perfect bridge to our 6th principle, which Maxwell really positions as the absolute core of leadership. Yeah, this one cuts deep. Principle 6 is Service and Sacrifice: The Heart of Leadership. It argues that the depth of your leadership is directly tied to what you're willing to give up for the good of others.

And the sources give a definition that leaves no wiggle room. Service means sacrificing your interests for the good of another human being's life. You cannot have service without sacrifice.

It's not just about being nice or doing charity work on the side.

No, it's about the deliberate, conscious choice to subordinate your own self-interest for the collective health and well-being of the team.

Maxwell also stressed that humility needs to be the leader's default posture, especially when things get tough. Why humility specifically? Because humility is what fuels sacrifice. It allows the leader to see themselves not as the most important person in the organization, but as its chief servant. That's a mindset shift.

And we need to get past the idea that sacrifice is always some grand, dramatic, heroic act. Like falling on a grenade. Right. For most leaders, 99% of the time, sacrifice is much smaller. It's the continuous daily grind of putting others first. The small, often unseen, non-glamorous choices.

Okay, let's make that concrete again. For a senior tech architect, what does daily sacrifice look like?

It might mean staying late to patiently mentor a junior engineer who's really struggling with a complex new library, even when your own inbox is overflowing. Giving up your time. Or maybe taking the least desirable task, like the 3 AM weekend system maintenance window, specifically to protect the work-life balance of your team members. Sacrificing convenience. For a military officer, Maybe it's choosing the less comfortable living quarters on deployment or taking on the most mind-numbing administrative tasks yourself to free up your junior leaders so they can focus on training their teams.

And critically, maybe it's sacrificing your ego. Huge one.

Stepping back, not always having to be the smartest person in the room, letting your team take the lead, take visible ownership, even get the credit.

The sources emphasize that when a team sees their leader consistently making these kinds of sacrifices, time, convenience, ego for their benefit.

That builds a kind of institutional resilience, a loyalty that you just can't buy. It creates a depth of trust that makes people willing to go into high-risk situations confidently because they know their leader has their back truly. So the deep question for you, the listener, has to be really tangible. What are you willing to sacrifice this week? What time, what convenience, what bit of ego are you going to set aside? To serve your team more deeply, to actually make their working lives better.

And the answer needs to be specific, practical, not just a vague intention. Right now, what is it? That resilience built through consistent sacrifice. It leads us right into our final principle for synthesis, how we anchor ourselves when chaos hits.

Which it always does.

Principle 7: The Way Forward—Values and Perspective.

Okay, so Maxwell provides the anchor here. He reminds us that values are what keep us steady. They provide reliability.

In the middle of market turmoil, political upheaval, operational setbacks, the team needs something solid, something unchanging to hold onto.

Your core values shouldn't shift with the circumstances. They need to be dependable.

So values anchor us, but Sinek adds the complementary piece, perspective. Perspective is what allows us to navigate using those anchors.

It helps the leader lift the team's eyes up. Look beyond the immediate crisis, the valley of despair, maybe towards the long-term opportunity, the mountaintop vision.

Because when a really high-performing team gets slammed with immediate demands, a brutal deadline, a sudden threat, system instability, it's easy to lose sight of the bigger picture.

Why are we suffering through this? Why does this matter?

Right. And it becomes the leader's job to provide that higher perspective, to connect the current difficulty back to the larger purpose. That Just Cause we talked about. That's what justifies the sacrifice they're making.

Sinek really drove home the point that uncertainty isn't a bug. It's a feature of the world. It's constant.

So you can't wait for it to go away.

No. The leader's job is to prepare the team now, during the relative calm, so that when the inevitable chaos hits, they're not just anchored by clear values.

But they're also confident in their leader's ability to maintain perspective, to see the way through.

This really gets to the core of actionable stability in these high-pressure environments. And the application seems to have two key parts. What are they? First, you have to clarify and then consistently communicate your values. They can't just be words on a poster. They have to show up in every decision, every promotion, every policy. They need to be visibly lived.

Okay. Consistent communication and demonstration of values. What's the second part?

The second part is about your presence in the moment of chaos. Your calm, steady demeanor, which is only possible because you are anchored by those predefined, well-communicated values, that becomes the anchor for everyone else.

Your calm is contagious.

Exactly. If the leader panics, the team fractures. It's over. But if the leader stays calm, reiterates the mission, points back to the shared values, the team maintains focus.

They remember their commitment to each other and the goal.

And that calm presence, that ability to hold perspective under fire, that's the ultimate demonstration that you, the leader, are truly playing playing the infinite game, you see beyond the immediate emergency, you're building something that lasts. Hashtag tag out.

Well, this has been, uh, quite a deep dive necessary, I think, to really unpack and synthesize the wisdom from Maxwell and Sinek, translating these big ideas about character and purpose into concrete actions for leaders in really demanding fields.

Yeah. And we've really tried to stress that effective leadership, especially in these high-stakes roles, it's not like a certificate you earn. It's a daily choice.

An intentional practice, centered on being resilient, on serving, listening actively, and holding fast to your values.

Before we wrap up, maybe it's worth quickly recapping those 5 core actions that emerged from the sources. Things you, the listener, can focus on starting right now.

Good idea. Let's list them out.

Okay. First, identify your infinite game. What's the just cause, the purpose that's bigger than your tenure, that will inspire sacrifice?

Define it. Second, strengthen your foundation. Do the work now. Clarify your values. Know your why so that your true character is revealed, not desperately constructed when crisis hits.

Third, practice asking, how are you really? Make that shift from just giving directions to being a conversational leader. Seek the meaning behind the words. Make people feel genuinely heard. Fourth, model trust and service.

Go first. Take the risk of trusting your people with real responsibility. And find ways, daily, to sacrifice your own convenience or ego to build that vital circle of safety.

And number 5, lead with perspective. Use those clear values as an anchor for your team in chaotic times. Help them lift their gaze beyond today's fire drill to the long-term opportunity.

That really feels like the architecture for building enduring influence, doesn't it? Moving beyond just managing tasks,—

to actually developing the next generation of resilient leaders, leaders who are ready to keep playing that infinite game.

Okay, so if the whole point of the infinite game is maximizing the long-term health, the culture, the continuity of your team, right? Then here's the final, maybe provocative thought we want to leave you with. This one demands real sacrifice and perspective. Let's hear it. What single process or maybe policy are you executing right now, something that might even be boosting your metrics this quarter? OK. That deep down is probably undermining the long-term structural health of your organization or your team. And are you willing to eliminate it today? Oof. That's tough. Because that decision right there— That's the real test, the ultimate test of whether you're truly committed to infinite leadership.

All right, thank you so much for watching. I don't see any question on LinkedIn or YouTube, and I'm going to remind everyone that this first day I'm going to be talking to our coach Darlene Drew, so you don't want to miss it. I believe it's a 9 AM, um, California time, and, uh, she's in Georgia, so it's going to be 12 PM Eastern time. In Georgia. And also, it's going to be Coach Darlene Drew's birthday, so you do not want to miss this. Thanks again for being here with me today, and I'm gonna be back tomorrow. We're going to have a 10-minute recap of the Infinite Leadership Podcast. Okay, see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.