S4:E87AI🎙️ LIVE Playing the Infinite Game

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, this podcast is for you. His mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to positively impact the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

What if your next keynote speaker could bridge the worlds of national defense? But it does mean you have to acknowledge the reality on the ground, the actual threat landscape, the real market conditions. Your team's current capabilities, even if that reality forces a change in direction that feels painful or inconvenient.

So both Maxwell and Sinek are really emphasizing that leadership isn't just about holding steady, maintaining the status quo.

No, it's about constant adaptation to better serve the mission. Because sticking to the way we've always done it is basically a finite mindset.

It's a guaranteed way to become irrelevant, especially in volatile fields like defense or tech.

Let's look at that Cinec team example during the COVID disruption.

Good one. Yeah, their main business, big in-person leadership events, essentially vanished overnight.

So what did they do? They didn't just wait and hope things went back to normal.

Nope. They pivoted.

Ugh.

Hard.

Reimagined their whole delivery model, shifted rapidly to virtual events, created new kinds of online content.

The key insight there, I think, is that they changed the, how the way they delivered their service, right?

The delivery mechanism, the structure.

But they held fiercely onto their why, that just cause of inspiring better leadership. They had the courage to let go of the old structure, the finite product, in order to save the mission, the infinite game.

That takes guts.

It does. So let's apply that. Imagine a Navy carrier strike group gets a brand new, maybe slightly buggy piece of electronic warfare gear.

Okay.

A finite-minded leader might resist integrating it because it messes up training schedules. Maybe dips initial readiness metrics for the current deployment. It's disruptive.

Understandable in a way.

But the infinite game leader, they see the necessary long-term shift in technology. They embrace the courage to pivot. They immediately start reallocating resources to train on this new, maybe difficult capability.

Why? Because they know sticking with the old comfortable process is eventually fatal in the long run. The adversary adapts. Technology moves on.

Or think about a fast-growing tech company hit with sudden major new regulations like GDPR or other data privacy laws.

Okay, big shift.

Sticking with the old product architecture, that guarantees legal trouble, loss of customer trust. It's failure.

So the courageous leader pivots. Genuinely valuing input during peacetime or during normal operations, then when the chaos erupts, your team already trusts your judgment. And maybe more importantly, they trust that you've already considered perspectives like theirs in your planning.

So the conversational leader actually earns the right to be directional when speed is absolutely essential.

Precisely. The trust is already baked in.

So empathy isn't just a soft skill then. It's actually a strategic tool. It helps secure genuine commitment.

Totally. Think about it. If you're a team lead, Practicing this means instead of immediately shutting down an idea like, no, we always use standard protocol, you ask something like, okay, help me understand, why do you think that approach might create a vulnerability down the line?

You're drawing them out, showing you value their thinking.

And the effect is huge. It shifts people from just complying, following the rules because they have to or fear the consequences, to genuine commitment, following the mission because they feel heard, valued, feel like they're part of it.

Compliance is brittle, you could say. Commitment is resilient.

Well put.

And the check-in suggested in the sources is simple but really cuts to the chase. How often do you actually stop, put everything else down, and truly listen to the most junior person on your team when they bring you a problem?

Are you just acknowledging them, or are you making them feel genuinely heard? Big difference.

Huge difference.

And that level of active investment, maybe even vulnerability, it sets the stage perfectly for Principle 4, which is all about trust.

What's up, everybody? This is Coach Bizzy. Thank you so much for being with me today. Today is Columbus Day or Indigenous Peoples' Day. Very, very grateful for America today. Let's do our moment of gratitude. That's something I love to do every time we meet. And please let us know where are you you're joining us from and one thing that you are grateful for today. So let's take a moment and go through our moment of gratitude. I would ask you, close your eyes if you can, put yourself in your happy place and take a deep breath and think about one thing you are grateful for today. I think on this Indigenous Peoples' Day, Well, Columbus Day, I am really grateful for America. I know we have a very complicated history in this country, but I do believe that America is the best country in the world right now. I think the founding document that this country was founded upon, the principle, they were very much aspiring because America didn't live up to its foundational creed But in time we are getting better and more progressive and giving freedom and prosperity and civil rights and human rights to all of America. So that's what I love about America. So let us know what you are grateful for today. Today I'm going to be giving you the 10-minute summary from the full podcast episode we had yesterday about the Infinite Game, right? Playing the Infinite Game. This was a podcast originally by my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell and Simon Sinek. He has a book called The Infinite Game as well, which you should read. So we're gonna do the 10-minute Summary today, and I also would like to bring to your attention that, uh, this week on Wednesday I'm going to be talking to the one and only Dominique Shelton, uh, Labsig. You need to be here. That's going to be on Wednesday morning, 6 AM California time, so 9 AM Eastern time. She's the CEO and, uh, founder of Global Data Innovation, and she's a board member and cybersecurity and privacy specialist. You don't want to miss it. And then on first day at 9:00 AM as well, I will be talking with Darlene Drew. It's going to be her birthday. She's a Maxwell Leadership Certified Coach, keynote speaker. Trainer, and she's going to be with us on Thursday. So I really look forward to it. All right, here is the 10-minute summary, the Infinite Game podcast.

Welcome to our discussion on leadership that, um, really dives deep into playing the infinite game, especially for military and tech leaders. You know, It's about embracing crisis, trust, and the kind of service that requires sacrifice.

Yep, absolutely. There's so much to unpack, from realizing that a crisis is really a reveal of who you are as a leader, to understanding that winning isn't just about a single battle, but about staying in the game for the long haul.

Right. It's like— it's like when a crisis hits, you don't see a leader's true colors in calm waters. But in rough ones. Crises actually highlight your values, your why, and, um, whether you're a true leader or just, you know, a pretender.

Mm, and it's so interesting how that ties back to what both John Maxwell and Simon Sinek have said. Maxwell talks about real leaders running toward the problem, asking actively, where are the people and how can I serve them, instead of hiding behind optics.

Exactly. Maxwell's idea is, um, that you have to have the courage to, well, actually face the tough situations head-on, without waiting for someone else to come to the rescue.

Yeah, definitely.

And Sinek reminds us that these moments are like stress tests for your character.

Yep, and shifting our mindset from finite games, where there's a clear win or loss based on milestones, to playing an infinite game is a big leap. It's, um, about creating a legacy that's about long-term impact, not just meeting short-term objectives.

Exactly. And, um, think about it. In the military, it's not just about achieving the next rank. It's about making the service better than you found it. And in tech, it's about fostering a culture that, well, lasts long after the next feature is shipped.

Mm, true. However, I do wonder sometimes whether this focus on the infinite game could, um, potentially make leaders overlook necessary short-term actions that are critical. I mean, isn't it risky to deemphasize those immediate wins?

That's a fair point. But, uh, I believe that when you build a strong foundation, clarifying your values and, uh, practicing servant leadership, It naturally creates an environment where short-term actions are aligned with a long-term vision.

Right, exactly.

It doesn't mean you ignore milestones; it just means you're not obsessed with them at the cost of your core mission.

Absolutely. Then there's the idea of listening as a superpower. Sinek points out that hearing is just the physical act, but listening is about grasping the meaning behind the words. Yep.

Yes, and that's a subtle but powerful shift. For a while, even Maxwell admitted that he valued his own vision above his people's input. The turning point came when he moved to a more conversational leadership, asking real questions and valuing feedback, which really is like, um, the cornerstone of trust.

Right, because trust in leadership isn't something you can just demand. It's earned by showing that you're willing to listen and, more importantly, by taking risks on trust. Leaders must be the first to step up and be vulnerable.

Exactly. Maxwell encapsulated it perfectly, saying that instead of asking, "Can I trust you?" a leader should constantly be asking themselves, "Am I trustworthy?" That's a game-changer in cultivating a culture of trust.

Absolutely. And trust, as you mentioned, is also built by leading with service and sacrifice. It's, um, the daily decision to put others first, whether that means staying late to mentor someone or, uh, giving up your attention to a team member who's really struggling.

Right. Both Maxwell and Sinek emphasize that true service demands sacrifice. It's not always dramatic. Sometimes it's just the consistent small choices that add up to big leadership impact.

Right, right. Then there's the courage to pivot. Adapting to change rather than clinging to the old ways of doing things. Remember, leaders need to go where the people are. That's such a refreshing perspective, especially in fast-moving fields like cybersecurity.

Yes, yes. I mean, imagine you're in the thick of a cyberattack or managing a critical incident on a ship, and sticking to, um, the way we've always done it can totally put you at a disadvantage. It's about embracing change and even surprise as opportunities rather than threats.

Mm-hmm, exactly. And that inevitably leads us to the way forward: values and perspective. Leaders are reminded that values don't change with circumstances, and having a broad perspective can guide you far beyond the crisis moment.

Oh, definitely. It's like having an anchor during a storm. A set of values gives you a fixed point while everything else is in flux. And planning for a long-term vision means preparing your team so they can navigate the next crisis with confidence.

Yeah, absolutely. It's fascinating how these principles apply to both military and tech environments. Whether you're a naval officer or, um, a cybersecurity executive in Silicon Valley, the call to leadership remains the same. Be prepared, be empathetic, and, um, be willing to take those risks for trust.

Right. And as we reflect on that, there's a really compelling call to action embedded throughout these lessons. It asks leaders to, for instance, model trust by delegating responsibility and, um, own mistakes publicly. That's something both sectors can definitely learn from.

Yep, that's so true. And take a moment to consider what kind of infinite game you're playing. Instead of constantly chasing after one milestone after the other, what larger vision are you building for your organization, your team, or even your country?

Exactly, and that's a big shift in mindset. For someone who's been in high-pressure positions, it means not just running after the next career rank or feature but actually focusing on the long term, almost like designing a legacy.

Mm-hmm, indeed. I also want to point out the role of intentional listening in strengthening leadership. When leaders really slow down and listen to a junior officer or a junior engineer, they not only validate the person but also open the door to, um, innovative ideas.

Yes, and it's so important because when people feel heard, trust blossoms naturally. It's that tiny, sometimes overlooked detail that can actually transform a culture. And isn't it interesting how that idea of listening also extends to building a resilient team that can weather crises?

Right, right. Exactly. Now, one thing I find intriguing is the balance between serving and sustaining your own well-being as a leader. Sometimes the call to service might feel overwhelming in times of constant crisis.

Hmm, that's an excellent point. While the notion of leadership here is all about sacrifice, it's also, uh, critical to remember that you need a solid foundation. You must clarify your values and, um, take care of yourself so you can truly serve others.

Mm-hmm, absolutely. And that brings us back full circle to the importance of being prepared when the next crisis hits. Whether it's cyber threats, global unrest, or even something else unexpected, your constant presence, built on values and trust, is your anchor.

Exactly. And it requires, um, that daily choice to lead with integrity, to be empathetic, and to commit to an infinite game rather than a one-off victory.

Right. So as we wrap up, it sounds like the real takeaways for military and tech leaders are: identify your infinite game, build a strong foundation of values, actively listen, model trust, and always, um, be ready to pivot when the situation demands it.

Yes, yes, that's the essence. And if leaders can commit to those principles, then they can not only navigate any crisis, but more importantly, inspire a culture that thrives long after they move on.

Yeah, exactly. It really is a call for a generational shift in leadership, one that's rooted in service, trust, and the courage to adapt. And I think that's what makes these lessons so powerful and so timely.

Absolutely. And before we finish, it makes you think, what can you as a leader sacrifice this week? How can you model trust and really listen to someone who might be struggling? That's the practical side of these philosophies.

Right, exactly. And which principle resonates with you most? Is it the idea of playing the infinite game or the focus on servant leadership during crises? It's a powerful invitation to reflect on your own leadership journey.

Yeah, it's like a mirror held up to every leader's practice. It challenges you to, um, stay engaged with who you are and who you want to be in the long haul. Not just in moments of calm, but especially during the storm.

Mm-hmm, so true. Well, we've covered a lot of ground, from crisis leadership and trust to the importance of listening and the courage to pivot. This conversation itself feels like a mini training session in embracing the infinite game.

Absolutely. And it's a reminder that leadership above all is about continuing every day to choose the well-being of your team and your cause over personal gain. That's what leaves a legacy.

Yep, indeed. I love that. It's been great, lively, and Seriously inspiring to talk through these principles. Digging into these ideas really reaffirms how critical it is to build transformational leadership, one that lasts, adapts, and truly serves people.

So folks, as you reflect on your own leadership journey, ask yourself, what infinite game are you playing? And how are you ensuring that your everyday actions, especially during challenges, lead to a legacy of trust, service, and lasting impact.

Right, exactly. Thanks for joining us in this conversation on, um, playing the infinite game in leadership. Let's keep pushing boundaries and leading with heart and, uh, purpose.

Competence— you gotta know your stuff. Integrity— your actions match your words. Reliability— you do what you say you'll do. And availability, you're actually present and accessible.

Okay. Competence, integrity, reliability, availability. For a military leader, that means what? Demonstrating skill, sticking to the rules, being there for your people, following through.

Exactly. And if you fail on one of those, say you delegate a task, but then you hover and micromanage constantly.

You're failing the reliability test. You're showing you don't actually trust them.

Right. And probably the competence test too. Maybe suggesting you don't trust their skills or your own ability to delegate effectively.

So practically speaking, the sources say you model trust by delegating meaningful responsibility, not just the grunt work.

Yes. You have to give your team ownership of something that has real impact, maybe even carries some visible risk. If they only ever handle the trivial stuff, the message you're sending is clear: I don't trust you when it really counts.

And then comes the acid test. What happens when they fail?

Ah, the moment of failure. This is critical. Leaders have to own their own mistakes publicly, take the hit for system failures, but, but they need to share credit generously when things go well. And absolutely crucial, you must publicly back your people up, protect them when they make an honest mistake while operating within the responsibility you gave them.

So publicly standing by that junior team member who maybe messed up a software deployment or missed something on patrol?

Yes, that is Sinek's circle of safety made real. It sends an instant powerful message. The risk is shared. I've got your back.

Because if a leader only takes credit for successes but pushes blame downwards for failures, they shatter that circle of safety.

Trust evaporates, and that infinite game you were trying to play, it just becomes brittle, finite, and everyone starts playing defense.

So the reflection for you, the listener, is maybe where can I model this kind of trust this week? Where can I take a calculated risk on someone junior, and how will I show I'll protect them if it doesn't pan out perfectly?

Answering that honestly dictates the real depth of your influence.

Right. Building trust. Leaders go first.

Yeah.

The sources are really clear and frankly uncompromising on this. Trust isn't automatic. It doesn't just come with the rank or the title.

You can't just demand it.

Nope. It has to be earned every single day through consistent, trustworthy actions.

Maxwell frames this using something called the mirror test. I think we need to unpack that properly because it flips the responsibility entirely.

Let's do it. The mirror test basically asks the leader to look inward. Maxwell's point is that your followers shouldn't be the ones wondering, can I trust my leader?

Okay.

Instead, you, the leader, should be looking in the mirror every single day and asking yourself, am I trustworthy?

Wow.

So it completely shifts the burden. If there's a trust deficit in the organization, it's always the leader's fault first.

You own it.

Okay. So what does trustworthy look like in daily actions? It's got to be more than just don't lie, right?

Much more. Sinek comes at this from what he calls an investment view. He says trust is actually the risk you take by choosing to trust first.

An investment.

Yeah. Like love almost. It needs constant tending, renewal. It's not just a transaction where you trade trust for performance. You have to put trust out there first.

So what are the pillars of being trustworthy daily according to the sources?

Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. See you right here next time on