S4:E9 Leadership & Success Podcast LIVE: Raising the Leadership Lid

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you need to develop into a better leader, this podcast is for you. If you want to achieve a greater level of success, this podcast is for you. His mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, said it best: everything rises and falls on leadership. We hope to inspire you today and provide you with an insight that has the potential to positively impact the trajectory of your life. Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast.

Hello everyone, this is, uh, Coach Bizzy. Uh, thank you so much for being with me this morning. Uh, today we are going to review another one, uh, of my article for our daily, uh, devotion. And, uh, this time it's going to be the article I wrote on Leading with the Law of the Lead. And the law of influence. Those are the first two laws of the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by Dr. John Maxwell, my mentor. And that's the book I ask you guys to get for this season as a curriculum, but also the Maxwell Leadership Bible. Again, for the Bible, nothing religious or spiritual, anything like that. We're just going to extract the leadership insight from the Bible. Okay. So, uh, in raising the, the lead— so Dr. Maxwell says, uh, the law of the lead, that's how well you lead determines how well you succeed, right? Your leadership is kind of the lead that is going to be the most that you can do. Let's say if your leadership lead, let's say, is at level 5, your organization can't go to level 6, 7, or 8. For the organization to get to that higher level, you as a leader needs to get that higher level first. So you are kind of like the lead that pretty much decide how far you go and how far the organization will go. And then the second law, the law of influence. As you know, my favorite leadership definition, and there are many, is the one from Dr. Maxwell, who says, leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. So it's one person influencing another. That means it has nothing to really do with your title or your position. You're not a leader just because you manage people, but you are a leader because you can influence people, people within your sphere of influence across your organization. And what that law says is the true measure of leadership is influence, nothing more and nothing less. Okay, so like I've said before, I'm gonna let my AI agent take it from here. Uh, please let me know where you are joining us from in the comment section, uh, which city, state, country, which area of the world you are watching from. And also, if you have a question for me, type it in the comment section, and I, I will be back right after Joe and, uh, Mary AI, uh, breaks, uh, the devotion down for me. All right, Joe and Mary, you guys are next.

So, uh, have you ever felt like maybe you or your team were just hitting a ceiling, you know, despite everyone really putting in their best effort.

Yeah, absolutely. Or, or maybe you've wondered why, even when you have a clear title, a position of authority, it's still just incredibly hard sometimes to get that genuine buy-in from the people you're supposed to be leading.

Exactly. It's a common thing, right? And often really frustrating. And I think it points to something deeper about leadership.

Uh-huh.

It's not just about your rank or, you know, the authority you've been given or that impressive title on your email signature.

It's about something, well, far more fundamental, something that kind of subtly shapes every interaction, every team dynamic. And let's be honest, probably every single outcome.

Absolutely. And that's what we're digging into today, right?

On today's deep dive, we're going to unpack a really, really powerful perspective on leadership. It's drawn from the insights of, well, a pretty unique source.

Yeah, we're looking at a recent article by Bob Fabien Zinga. He's a Navy commander and also a cybersecurity executive.

And the article's titled "L.E.A.D.: Raising the Leadership Lid: A Navy Cyber Commander's Perspective." What makes his work so compelling, I think, is how he distills, you know, decades of really high-stakes experience. For sure.

You've got the disciplined environment of military service on one hand, and then the, like, rapid innovation you see in Silicon Valley on the other.

And he frames all of that through the kind of timeless wisdom of his mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell. So our mission for you today listening in is to explore two core principles B.Z. Zinga highlights as being, well, absolutely transformative for him.

Those are the Law of the Lid and the Law of Influence. Exactly. And what's truly fascinating here, and I think what makes this deep dive so valuable, is really seeing how these seemingly straightforward laws, how they translate into tangible, real-world impact. Right. In such different environments, too. Totally diverse, often high-pressure environments. So whether you're navigating the complexities of a naval ship or maybe leading leading a cutting-edge tech team, or even like managing a small nonprofit.

These insights seem to reveal some universal truth.

They really do. And his background, I mean, being an information warfare military commander and a seasoned cybersecurity executive, that provides such a rich tapestry of compelling stories, doesn't it?

Yeah, it really illustrates not just what these principles are, but, you know, how they actually play out when the stakes are really high.

And why they aren't just like abstract theories you read in a book. Yeah. It's lived experience. And it demands, well, some deep self-reflection from all of us, I think.

Okay, so let's really unpack this first one then. We've heard the name, the Law of the Lid, but what exactly is it? What does it mean for us, you know, as leaders?

Well, Mzee Zinga, and he is drawing directly from Maxwell's principles here, he puts it with this like stark simplicity that kind of hides its depth. Mm-hmm. He says, how well you lead determines how well you succeed.

Okay, that sounds almost too obvious.

It does. Yeah. But here's the, the insidious part. Maybe your leadership ability or, you know, the lack of it is effectively the ceiling. It's the lid that determines your personal level of effectiveness. And by extension, it absolutely dictates the maximum potential of your team or maybe even your whole organization. Huh.

Like a literal lid on a container. Kind of. Yeah.

Imagine trying to fill a bucket with water. No matter how much water you pour in, right, it can only hold as much as its lowest opening allows. The leadership capacity, that acts just like that lowest opening, that metaphorical lid. Wow. It's a humbling idea, honestly, almost confrontational, because it forces you to look inward, you know, rather than blaming external factors when you hit limitations.

That is a powerful and maybe slightly unnerving thought. So you're saying if my personal leadership capacity is, let's say, an 8 on a 1 to 10 scale, then my team no matter how talented or driven they might be, they can actually never perform above a 7. Is that— is that the radical implication here? It's precisely it.

Bob Fabien Zinga uses Maxwell's direct, almost jarring example. He states it unequivocally. If I rated myself an 8 in leadership, my team's effectiveness couldn't be higher than a 7. And that's not just some arbitrary number, right? It's a profound conceptual framework. It forces us to confront this uncomfortable reality that our own personal leadership growth It isn't just a nice-to-have for our career, right?

It's not just about me getting promoted.

Exactly. It has a direct, often disproportionate, and absolutely measurable impact on the output, the innovation, the ultimate potential of every single person you lead.

So if I'm not growing, I'm actually holding my team back.

You are. Even if it's unintentional, you're setting an invisible self-imposed ceiling on their growth, their ambition, their performance. Does that make you rethink things?

Every challenge, every bottleneck? Yeah.

Every instance of stagnation your team faces. It might not be external factors or your team members' limits. It could actually be a direct reflection of an unmet leadership development need in you.

The implications are staggering because it means the biggest lever for improvement might actually be me.

Often, yes. It often lies within the leader themselves.

That reframing is genuinely insightful. Now, Bizzy Zinga shares a moment early in his career where he personally kind of bumped up against this lid.

Right, as a young officer.

Yeah, leading a team of network defenders. He describes realizing that his own limits kept the team's performance stuck. Can you give us a bit more detail on that, like that specific challenge and how it showed up?

Yeah, he talks about this critical moment during a really complex cybersecurity threat scenario. Now, his team was technically skilled, right? They knew their stuff. But he found himself struggling to grasp the full scope of the threat. And crucially, he struggled to formulate a decisive, bold response.

Okay, so his own uncertainty.

Exactly. His internal uncertainty, his own hesitation maybe to commit to a potentially risky but maybe necessary course of action. He said it seeped into the team and kept us from acting boldly. Wow, that's powerful.

It's not just about lacking technical knowledge then.

No, not at all. It's about that profound psychological ripple effect a leader's state of mind has on their team. When a leader lacks clarity or confidence or maybe the courage to make a tough call, Mm. Especially in high-stakes environments like cyber or military ops.

That hesitation gets picked up by the team? Absolutely.

It gets absorbed, maybe even amplified and mirrored by the team. They become hesitant too, right? Waiting for direction that doesn't quite solidify, or they just play it safe, avoid the risks.

So if the leader's personal lid is, say, a fear of failure—

Or maybe a reluctance to challenge how things are normally done. The team will consciously or unconsciously kind of mimic that caution.

And they'll never really innovate or break new ground. Exactly.

They won't push beyond those safe, established norms. Zinga's experience really underscores that a leader's personal growth isn't some luxury. It's a direct, essential catalyst for unlocking the team's full unconstrained potential.

And he uses a really potent quote, doesn't he? From Thomas Aquinas.

Yeah, that's a great one.

If the highest aim of a captain were to preserve his ship, he would keep it in port forever. It's such a vivid image, especially coming from a Navy guy.

It really is. And that quote immediately brings up this important, almost provocative question: What does "keeping the ship in port" actually mean for leaders today?

Right. In dynamic fields like cybersecurity or the market or even combat—

It means embracing that overly cautious, risk-averse mindset, doesn't it? It means avoiding real innovation, maybe shying away from necessary changes, clinging to what's comfortable and known.

Even when the world outside is demanding you Adapt, experiment, act boldly.

Precisely. For Bob Fabien Zinga, in cyber and military ops, playing it safe isn't just stagnation; it's, well, it's failure. You can't protect a network from constantly evolving threats, you can't succeed in a complex mission if you're not willing to venture into the unknown.

You have to adapt proactively, lead your team into challenging, maybe uncharted territory. Right.

He realized he had to actively push past that safe harbor, not just for himself but really to unleash his team's capabilities. And that personal transformation, you know, from just holding a title to being someone genuinely trusted and followed, that's the essence of raising that leadership lid.

It's earning the right to lead, not just being given it.

Through demonstrated courage, ever-expanding competence. It's a journey, right? Not a destination.

So that naturally begs the question, how does a leader actually do that? How do you raise your lid? BZ Zinga offers some really practical, hard-won strategies from his experience. First, he talks about seeking out stretch opportunities.

Yeah, this is absolutely foundational, and honestly, it's often kind of counterintuitive for a lot of people. He advises leaders to intentionally tackle projects just beyond your current ability.

Okay, so not recklessly setting yourself up for failure.

No, it's about deliberate, calculated discomfort. It means actively looking for those assignments that push your boundaries, force you to learn new skills, or operate outside your, you know, well-established comfort zone.

Like volunteering for that new complex initiative that maybe scares you a little.

Exactly. Or stepping up for a challenging deployment that requires unfamiliar problem solving or taking on a tough project where you don't immediately have all the answers.

He shares that anecdote, too, about the chief saying Navy stood for Never Again Volunteer Yourself.

Right. Back when he was a seaman recruit, the lowest rank, and the chief, maybe half joking, maybe not, used that line. But B.Z. Zinga powerfully countered that mindset. He recognized that if you truly want to grow, to genuinely add value and expand your capabilities, you have to volunteer for those toughest, most uncomfortable assignments.

You do.

Growth, as he says, never happens in the safe, familiar space. It happens right at the edge of your comfort zone when you're forced to adapt, learn, expand your capabilities, thereby lifting that leadership lid. It's in those moments of struggle and problem solving. That's where the most significant internal expansion occurs.

Yeah. And building on that, he puts a really strong emphasis on investing in continuous learning. Now, that sounds like common sense, but what does it really look like in practice for a leader trying to raise their lid? Beyond just getting certifications, I mean.

Oh, it goes way beyond just formal training or attending a seminar. It means actively cultivating this, like, insatiable curiosity, reading widely across different fields, analyzing diverse viewpoints, and critically learning from every single mission's after-action report, not just, you know, glossing over them.

So it's not just about technical knowledge, although that's vital in fields like cyber.

Right. It's a holistic approach to development. Just like cyber experts have to relentlessly stay current on the latest threats to be effective, leaders need to continually sharpen their soft skills.

Things like communication, emotional intelligence, strategic foresight.

Their ability to navigate complex conflicts, their capacity for deep empathy. All of it. And it's about truly integrating those lessons learned into your actual leadership approach.

Turning knowledge into wisdom in action.

It's exactly transforming it. The best leaders aren't just knowledgeable, they're perpetual students, always seeking to understand, adapt, and refine their approach based on new information, unexpected outcomes, and the, you know, ever-evolving human dynamics within their teams.

They understand that standing still is actually going backwards in a world that's always moving. Precisely. Stagnation is regression. Okay. Another key strategy he brings up is building a robust feedback loop. Now, that can be incredibly tough for some leaders, right? Actively seeking out honest, sometimes uncomfortable feedback. It takes vulnerability.

It absolutely does. It requires profound humility and frankly, a secure sense of self. BZ Zinga really highlights the critical importance of actively soliciting honest feedback from peers, from subordinates, and from mentors.

And he had a specific experience with this in the Navy's Information Professional community.

Yeah, the IP community focused on IT, cyber, communications, they actually had a structured and mandatory mentoring program, which he found beneficial. But importantly, Bob Fabien Zinga went further. He proactively sought out unofficial mentors and also peer mentors outside those formal channels. He even candidly admits, he says, I reached out, asked a lot of people dumb questions, and gained so much wisdom. Asking dumb questions.

I like that. It shows humility.

It really does. And it powerfully underscores that a feedback loop isn't just about your annual performance review. It's about cultivating this constant, informal, deeply humble dialogue where you're genuinely open to learning, to being challenged, and crucially, to seeing your own blind spots.

Using failures and successes as learning opportunities.

Exactly. Leveraging both to consistently push your lid higher. And that willingness to ask those dumb questions, to expose your gaps in understanding— paradoxically, that's a hallmark of true intellectual courage and an unwavering commitment to growth. Essential for any leader who wants to transcend their current limits.

Okay, now here's where it gets really interesting and maybe a bit counterintuitive for some. Bob Fabien Zinga says that by helping others grow, by actively developing your team, you indirectly raise your own lid. How does that work? How does investing in them help you?

It's this profound concept of reciprocal growth, isn't it? Like a feedback loop where giving actually makes you stronger. When you genuinely commit to coaching, To delegating effectively, to mentoring your team members. You're not just making them better. Okay. You're actually forcing yourself to think more strategically, to cultivate a deeper level of trust, to communicate with much greater clarity and precision, and to learn how to empower more effectively.

Ah, so a stronger, more capable team.

One that you've actively developed. It doesn't just reflect well on your leadership.— it actively expands your leadership ability because it frees you up.

Right.

If they can handle more, then you as the leader are liberated to focus on those higher-level strategic challenges, on forging external partnerships, on vision setting, on truly innovative thinking, which naturally lifts your capacity, your lid.

And he contrasts the culture in the IP community with others.

Yeah, he draws this powerful contrast. He talks about the nurturing and supportive culture of the information professional community, where sharing knowledge was seen as a master key to success. And he contrasts that with the often aggressive competition, like eat or be eaten, he saw in some other naval communities. And this highlights a critical insight: sharing knowledge and developing others isn't a zero-sum game where you lose power by empowering them. It's a positive-sum game. Exactly. It benefits everyone, raising the collective lid of the entire organization. When your team is highly capable and deeply empowered, You, as their leader, are then free to operate at a higher, more impactful strategic level. That's the ultimate way to raise your own leadership lid.

So as you, the listener, reflect on all this, Bob Fabien Zinga poses that really pointed, reflective question: What's your lid right now? Are you inadvertently limiting your team's potential? It's a powerful challenge, really, to look inward, to accept responsibility for potential bottlenecks. Yeah. And then importantly, he pushes us further. He gives a clear call to action that avoids that trap of feeling overwhelmed. You know, right?

What's the action? He says, think of one area in your leadership style or skill set where you can grow this week. The genius here is the specificity, the manageable scale. It's not about a grand, daunting overhaul of your entire leadership persona. Just one thing. Just one actionable step. Yeah. Maybe it's picking up that book on a leadership topic you've been putting off or intentionally volunteering for a project that makes you feel a little uncomfortable.

Or maybe just gathering the courage to ask a trusted colleague for some really honest Candid feedback on a specific area.

Exactly. The absolute key is recognizing that leadership growth isn't passive. It's an ongoing, deliberate, and often uncomfortable process. And it all begins with that first intentional step outside your current, often self-imposed limitations.

That's actually a perfect bridge to Bob Fabien Zinga's second foundational principle, because after spending years consciously raising his own lid, he then discovered Maxwell's second principle was equally transformative for him. The Law of Influence. The true measure of leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah. And if we connect this to the bigger picture of leadership, that definition, despite being so short, it just cuts right to the core, doesn't it? It really does. It directly challenges that pervasive misconception, especially in hierarchical places like the military and often in tech too. The idea that leadership is solely about authority or your position on the org chart.

Right. The temptation to rely on rank or title.

It's a strong temptation. Yeah, because it's kind of baked into the structure of the chain of command. But Maxwell and Bob Fabien Zinga's experience really bears this out, clarifies that genuine leadership fundamentally transcends any given title. It's not about the power you have on paper, but the authentic impact you make on people. Influence, really, at its heart, it's about affecting others' thoughts, shaping their attitudes, guiding their actions and behaviors without resorting to coercion or just mandates or mere positional authority.

It's about inspiring them to want to follow, not forcing them to comply.

It's a subtle but profoundly significant difference, yes. And B.C.

Zinga truly lived this, didn't he? Early in his demand, he talks about having ample authority on paper, yet struggling to get that genuine buy-in from seasoned sailors and cyber specialists.

Yeah, the ones with deep experience.

He shares that story from a joint exercise where his initial assumption was just, you know, orders alone would make things happen. What was the hard lesson he learned there?

That's really where the rubber met the road for him. And it's a lesson I think many leaders, especially those new to significant authority, learn quite painfully. He discovered that simply issuing orders, no matter how clearly he stated them, just wasn't enough to generate real commitment or initiative.

So what was the lesson? The hard lesson was this.

Hmm. He realized he had to take the time to listen and understand my team's perspective, including junior enlisted sailors, who have outstanding ideas but sometimes get ignored because of their low rank.

Ah, listening even to the lowest ranks. That's crucial.

It's a crucial, often overlooked distinction. When you operate solely by command, yeah, you might get compliance. People follow orders to avoid trouble, but you absolutely will not get true commitment or innovation or that proactive initiative. But by actively engaging their input, valuing their expertise, even from those junior sailors with ground-level insights. He began to build the influence and the trust he needed to inspire action that went way beyond just obedience.

It highlights that genuine, lasting influence is built relationally, not just hierarchically.

Exactly. Building bridges, not just issuing directives.

So this brings up a critical point about, like, the sustainability of leadership. What does this mean for building lasting leadership, not just temporary compliance? B.Z. Zinga learned the hard way that influence, unlike authority, can seem to just vanish overnight. Yeah, that's a powerful story. He talks about switching billets, changing job assignments in the military to a new unit, and realizing the rapport and credibility I'd built didn't transfer.

This is such a stark insight into how influence works or doesn't work in terms of portability. He found himself really frustrated, right? Observing that decisions required pushback almost at every turn.

Like swimming upstream. Constantly. Exactly. And then he says, it clicked.

My influence had reset to zero. This is a profoundly important realization for any leader anywhere.

Influence isn't like a permanent credential you carry around.

No, it's not like your degree or your rank. It is something that is constantly, continuously earned. You can't just coast on past achievements or your reputation from a previous role or a title you once held when you step into a new environment, especially one with its own established dynamics and relationship, right? He realized he had to earn it all over again from the ground up by demonstrating consistent competence, showing genuine compassion for his new team, and proving unwavering commitment to their shared mission in that new role.

It reinforces that influence is built relationship by relationship, action by action. It's context dependent.

It's a continuous investment, a constant re-earning, never a one-time gain like a bank account, right? Yeah. Every interaction is either a deposit or withdrawal.

It makes total sense then that Nelson Mandela's words really resonated with BZ Zinga on this. It is better to lead from behind and to put others in front, especially when you celebrate victory, then people will appreciate your leadership. That's a beautiful way to put it.

It is. And what's genuinely fascinating here is how BZ Zinga found that as he started actually doing that, celebrating his team's wins and critically, openly sharing the credit, His influence didn't just grow a little bit. It, like, blossomed exponentially.

Why do you think that is?

Well, that speaks to that fundamental human need, doesn't it? The need to be seen, to be valued, to be recognized for your contribution.

Especially in high-pressure environments. Exactly.

Like cyber ops or on a naval ship where teamwork is everything. When leaders consciously choose to cheer their people on, publicly share the glory for successes, a profound level of trust just blossoms.

Team members feel genuinely valued, their contributions validated.

And as a result, they become far more willing to follow a vision, not because they have to, but because they want to. It shifts leadership from just a transaction— I give orders, you comply— to something truly transformational.

Where people are inspired to give their best, go above and beyond because they feel invested in and appreciated. Exactly. So how do we actually build this kind of profound influence? Bob Fabien Zinga offers several practical, actionable ways, starting with the foundational advice to listen and serve. Yeah, this point is utterly foundational.

Yet, it's often tragically overlooked in the rush of daily tasks, isn't it? He advises, quite simply, show your team you care about them as people. Invest time in understanding their ideas and concerns. It sounds almost too basic. It does, but here's the truth. People consistently follow leaders who genuinely support them. Who truly have their back, not just those who boss them around. It speaks directly to the relational core of influence.

And that you genuinely listen, not just waiting to talk. Right. Truly listen.

You gain that deep understanding of their challenges, their hopes, their fears, their unique perspectives. And when you actively serve them, you demonstrate through your actions that your leadership is fundamentally about them, about enabling their success, not just achieving your own agenda.

That kind of care and support builds deep loyalty.

And a powerful willingness to follow because your team knows deep down you have their best interests at heart, even when the decisions get tough.

Okay. Next, he talks about building relationships across ranks and even across organizational silos. This goes beyond just your immediate team, clearly. Absolutely.

This isn't just about cohesion within your direct reports. It means intentionally reaching out, collaborating with other units, different departments, maybe even external partners or perceived competitors in some complex situations.

Why is that so important for influence?

BZ Zinga really emphasizes that by helping others achieve their goals, you build allies who will carry your mission forward. Think about it. Your sphere of influence grows exponentially beyond your direct team when you're known as someone who helps others succeed, who's a connector and enabler. It builds bridges, dismantles friction, creates a robust network of support. It makes it infinitely easier to achieve those broader, more ambitious organizational goals. Because you have allies willing to lend support and expertise, knowing you'll reciprocate, you become a force multiplier for collective success.

And crucially, modeling the behavior you expect. He says, be consistent, reliable, and ethical. Influence grows when people know you walk the walk. Simple truth, but maybe the hardest to maintain under pressure.

This is where integrity isn't just like a nice virtue. It's a strategic imperative. As Maxwell wisely puts it, it's not a title that makes the leader. It's the leader that makes the position. When your words consistently match your actions, when your character is transparent and unwavering, when you show genuine consistency in your values, people instinctively see you as authentic, deeply trustworthy.

A consistency builds an unshakable reputation. It does.

And that allows your influence to grow organically and deeply because people know they can rely on you and what you stand for, even when things get tough. It's building that unimpeachable credibility. Through consistent ethical behavior day in, day out. That's the bedrock.

Okay. This next point is a big one, and Bob Fabien Zinga really dives into it. Empowering others. He specifically stresses giving junior team members real responsibility and genuine credit. This feels like a major shift for many leaders, right? Especially those who came up doing the work themselves. Oh, absolutely.

This is indeed one of the most transformative and frankly, often the most challenging aspects of truly effective leadership. He illustrates it so well with that custom he started. The Sailor in the Spotlight, or SSORD. Tell us more about that. He began by honoring a Petty Officer Third Class, a pretty junior rank, for their exceptional contributions. Then, crucially, he let that honoree choose the next ETS based on who had the most positive impact on them.

Ah, letting the recognized person choose the next one. Interesting.

And he observed that an astounding 80% of the subsequent picks were junior enlisted members, the very people often overlooked in traditional recognition systems. Wow! And in a real testament to its power, BZ Zinga was even shocked, he says, to be selected as a SITS himself by one of his own lead petty officers.

That's amazing! It democratized influence in a way.

It totally did. It proved that profound impact can come from anywhere, regardless of rank. It cultivated a culture where everyone felt seen and valued.

And he gets very personal about the struggle of empowering others. He admits, really candidly, "Empowering others is one of the most difficult things I have had to learn." That's quite a confession from a high-ranking officer.

It is, and it's one that resonates with so many leaders, I think. He nails the common dilemma. Usually, people who are excellent at doing work get promoted to manage others to do that work. Yeah. It is not easy to let go. Right.

The "I can do it better myself" trap.

Exactly. He says, "I used to think that I was the only one who could get the work done to my high standard. I may as well continue to do that." But he realized, with real conviction, that that mindset is fundamentally wrong for a leader.

You must create space for them to learn, even by failing.

Yes. Provide unwavering support, more resources, training, budget. But, he stresses emphatically, do not do their work even if you think you could do it better than them in your sleep.

Cuz how else will they ever learn? Exactly.

How else will they grow, develop competence, build confidence? This approach fosters genuine development, builds deep capability, and cultivates that crucial sense of ownership and accountability.

He even brings up the ultimate leadership test—the vacation test.

Yes. His IP mentor taught him this incredibly insightful metric. The best leaders should be able to go on vacation and know that in their absence, the work is still being done in an excellent manner. And stark, right? But powerful.

Definitely. It measures true empowerment.

It highlights that a leader's true measure isn't how indispensable they are, how many fires they put out personally. It's measured by how dispensable they can be while the mission thrives seamlessly in their absence.

It's a testament to their delegation, training, trust.

The ultimate sign that you haven't just created followers, but you've successfully cultivated leaders capable of independent, high-level performance.

Which leads right to his ultimate realization, that big shift in mindset. A leader's goal is not to get more followers but to develop more leaders.

Exactly. This, for Bob Fabien Zinga, is the absolute peak of empowering leadership. The true north star. He points to the US Navy itself as a powerful example where leadership development starts at the lowest rank.

It is baked in everything we do. His IP mentor said leadership is like location in real estate for the Navy. Yeah, fundamental, non-negotiable.

This culture, where petty officers, chiefs officers were highly invested in developing me as a leader from day one as a seaman recruit, it makes the whole organization stronger, more resilient, more adaptable.

It encourages innovation and self-initiative.

Because if everyone is competent, understands the mission, and is empowered with the vision, you don't need constant micromanagement. You don't need every simple decision flowing up the chain.

This widespread empowerment multiplies influence exponentially.

Creates a truly distributed, agile, powerful leadership ecosystem.

Yes. So as you, the listener, reflect on these powerful ideas about influence, Bizzy Zinga really challenges you. Who are you influencing most today? Are you focusing on policies and procedures or on the people behind them? Mm-hmm.

And then that highly actionable call to growth. Consider someone on your team. How will you earn their trust this week?

It's not about grand gestures. It's about those intentional, consistent daily actions.

Maybe listening more actively to someone who disagrees. Offering specific, authentic praise for something often overlooked. Giving someone an opportunity they wouldn't normally get, even if it feels like a small risk.

Shifting focus from managing tasks to investing in the people.

Understanding that authentic, lasting influence is built one relationship, one act of genuine service, one shared victory at a time. It's a continuous, deliberate process of connection.

What's truly fascinating here, and I think it's a real hallmark of Bizzy Zinga's whole approach, is how he connects these very modern practical leadership principles from Maxwell, from his own experience, to a much deeper kind of timeless well of wisdom.

Yeah, he invites us to think on these things. Right.

Integrating profound biblical wisdom, showing the deeper why behind the laws of the lid and influence, exploring principles that really transcend specific context and offer a foundational framework It's not really about religion per se, is it?

No, not about dogma. It's about exploring those enduring universal truths that underpin effective ethical leadership. How ancient wisdom offers maybe a radically different, often countercultural, framework for leadership purpose compared to a lot of modern corporate thinking.

These insights act like deeper anchors for the concepts.

Exactly. Reinforcing why they work.

Okay. First, he connects integrity and humility to cultivating influence, using Proverbs 3:4, "And so find favor and high esteem in the sight of God and man." Yeah, that verse beautifully captures the idea that true, sustainable influence isn't just about charisma or strategy or power.

It's cultivated, grown organically through unwavering integrity and genuine humility. When leaders consistently align actions with values, act with transparency, honesty, a sincere desire to serve, they naturally earn both deep trust and profound respect. Influence, in this view, isn't demanded or bought. It's attracted.

It's an outflow of character. Exactly.

And that trustworthiness, in turn, naturally elevates their leadership lid by expanding their capacity for impact. It also makes you ask yourself, right, in my leadership, where have I maybe been seeking favor more from external validation than from internal conviction and humility?

And how can I consciously reinforce trust through more transparency and integrity? Good questions to ask. Then he looks at holistic growth, referencing Luke 2:52, and Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and men.

This verse presents such an integrated, powerful model for development way beyond just professional skills. It describes growth in 4 key dimensions: wisdom, mental growth, intellect, stature, physical well-being. Presence, favor with God, spiritual development, purpose, and favor with men, relational competence, connection.

So raising your lid isn't just about reading more leadership books.

No, it means committing to lifelong continuous learning and development across all these interconnected areas. You can't be truly effective if you're brilliant intellectually but neglect your health, or if you're great with people but lack a moral compass. Exactly. Neglecting any one area eventually creates a ceiling. A subtle limit on your leadership capacity, which makes you ask, which area of my leadership and life is growing fastest now? And maybe more importantly, which is being neglected?

And what intentional habits can I build this week for a truly holistic growth plan? Right. Nurturing all aspects. And linking to impact, he points to excellence earning influence and opportunity from Proverbs 22:29. Do you see a man who excels in his work He will stand before kings. He will not stand before unknown men.

This makes that undeniable connection. Excellence in your craft absolutely earns influence and crucially opens doors to greater opportunity. Leaders who genuinely refine their skills, consistently deliver high-quality results, are known for their performance. They inevitably gain platforms of greater impact.

Their competence expands their influence.

It does. But this is critical. The Force makes it clear this competence must be matched with character and consistency. It's not just what you can do, but how you do it, with what integrity, with what consistency.

Your lid rises when you're known for reliable value through exceptional work. Exactly.

Which challenges us. What are you known for right now? Capability or equally for consistency? And who's a king in your professional space? A leader of real impact you could actively learn from or seek mentorship from this week.

He also highlights visible progress inspiring others. Citing 1 Timothy 4:15. Practice these things, immerse yourself in them so that all may see your progress.

Such a powerful reminder that leadership development isn't just a private journey. It's inherently visible. As you diligently practice these principles—listening, empowering, learning—and consistently commit to growth, others will notice your transformation.

And that visible progress is inspiring in itself.

It is. And it ties directly to the Law of the Lid. Because the more you visibly grow, the more capacity you gain, not just for yourself, but to genuinely serve and lead others more effectively. It's not about perfection overnight. No, it's about that consistent, demonstrable commitment to continual improvement, being better today than yesterday. Which makes you think, am I documenting or sharing aspects of my own growth journey so others can learn from my process, my struggles, my wins?

And who in my circle would benefit from seeing my authentic progress, not just waiting for perfection? Great point. Another powerful idea he connects these laws to is mutual sharpening, from Proverbs 27:1 scene: "As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Ah, yes.

This proverb beautifully illustrates a fundamental truth: influence and leadership capacity multiply exponentially through robust, even challenging, relationships. Great leaders know they don't become great alone or by being the smartest person in the room.

They actively seek out others who challenge them.

Peers, mentors, even friendly rivals. Yeah. People who will constructively challenge them, refine their thinking, push them to be sharper, more insightful, more effective. Surrounding yourself with wise mentors and accountability partners isn't just nice. It's critical for raising your lid and extending your influence.

Because no leader becomes great alone.

Right. It's about embracing that constructive friction from others as a profound growth catalyst. Understanding that healthy debate, different perspectives, honest feedback, even when uncomfortable, leads to stronger, more effective leadership. So a key question is, who is actively sharpening me right now? And conversely, who am I intentionally sharpening, pushing towards their growth? How can I foster an environment where healthy challenge leads to collective growth and innovation?

And finally, perhaps most profoundly, He highlights leading for a higher purpose using Matthew 5:16. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

This verse offers such a deep insight into the ultimate purpose of influence. It's not about spotlighting yourself or building your personal brand or accumulating power. It's about shining a light that points others to something far greater than yourself.

Your leadership should inspire action and honor higher values.

Values, whether that's commitment to integrity, passion for service, a spiritual purpose. This challenges leaders to lead visibly, authentically, with such clear purpose that others are moved not just by skills or achievements, but by the deeper purpose and values they reflect. Leading—

so your good works point others towards significance, not just success.

Exactly. Which leads to the reflection: what does my daily leadership in its essence truly say about what I profoundly value? And how can my leadership today and every day point others not just towards success, but towards lasting significance?

Wow. This has been a truly insightful and, uh, really expansive deep dive into leadership. The Law of the Lid and the Law of Influence as Bob Fabien Zinga articulates them through Maxwell's wisdom. They're not just abstract concepts, are they?

Not at all. They're incredibly powerful guiding beacons for anyone who wants to lead effectively.

They teach us that leading well is both this profound inner development, constantly raising your own capacity, your lid, and an outward practice, deliberately, compassionately cultivating genuine connection, trust, and impact.

And we heard how B.Z. Gunn personally saw these laws transform units, foster innovation, and really open up new possibilities, even in incredibly high-stakes environments. Right. And he leaves us with that compelling, almost urgent challenge, doesn't he? What will you do next?

Will you keep your ship safely moored, playing it safe?

Or will you bravely sail toward new horizons, embracing the growth and challenges beyond your current comfort zone? He encourages us and you listening to identify just one concrete, actionable step you'll take starting this week to apply these powerful laws.

And remembering that leadership isn't a solo voyage. We all rise by lifting others.

Which brings us back to that ultimate goal.

That leadership isn't just about gaining followers, but about actively developing more leaders. That really shifts how you approach daily interactions, doesn't it?

It fundamentally does. So consider this as you go about your week. If your true unwavering goal isn't just to get more followers or accumulate power, but instead to actively develop and empower more leaders around you, then how might your daily actions and interactions fundamentally shift? What specific conversations will you start? What responsibilities will you delegate fully? What credit will you genuinely share? —specifically to empower those around you towards unlocking their own leadership ceilings and expanding their personal circles of influence.

That's a truly powerful thought to mull over. A profound call to action, really. We look forward to seeing the transformative insights and actions you take as a result of this deep dive.

All right. Thank you so much, um, Mary and Julie. I, I do appreciate that breaking down, uh, my article Raising the Lead: A Navy Cyber Commander's Perspective, and that's based on the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by my mentor Dr. John C. Maxwell. And those are the very first two laws: the Law of the Lead— how well you lead determines how well you succeed— and the Law of Influence— the true measure of leadership is influence, nothing more. Nothing less. I believe tomorrow we are gonna go into Law Number 3 and Law Number 4. Now, leadership is a process, okay? It doesn't happen overnight, and, uh, you have to kind of dedicate time, effort, and focus on it. And it's really, in my opinion, about adding value, adding value to others. So you have good core values, so you know who you are, what you stand for, what's important to you, and then you also value other people, right? So I have good values, number one. Number two, I value people. And then number three, I want to add value to people. So I think it's that trifecta that really makes you a great leader, because it's not about you, your ego, and your power, and your authority, but it's what can I do for you, and what can I do for the least of these, right? The lowest-ranked people in my unit, in the middle, Turi. And if you are in an organization in Silicon Valley, not just your peers and your bosses, but the people who are subordinate to you— how can you love them? How can you add value to their work, make their life easier, allow them to accomplish their own goal, uh, the mission of the organization, remove obstacle from their way? So I think that's really what leadership is all about. So tomorrow we're going to talk about the Law of Process. And the Law of Navigation. Uh, the Law of Process: leadership develops daily, not in a day. Again, it is a process, it doesn't happen overnight, but you have to be consistent. And number 4, the Law of Navigation: anyone can steer the ship, but it takes a leader to chart the course. All right, so meet me here, um, every day around 6:30 AM California time, Pacific time, 9:30 AM Eastern time, Washington DC, New York, talk. And I want to acknowledge Anna Nazareth, who's joining us today from Brazil. And I'm also going to check on YouTube since we're streaming live and LinkedIn to see if there are any questions for me. I don't see any. So until next time, until tomorrow, this is Coach BZ. Have a wonderful day, and, uh, I look forward to seeing you right here tomorrow morning.

Bye. Thank you for listening to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If you like what you heard, please subscribe to our channels and come back for more wisdom nuggets on how you may develop into a better leader and achieve greater levels of success. Leadership is the most critical skill. The world will always need leaders to lead others, deploy the next disruptive technology, or execute a business strategy. You may as well decide on counting yourself among the 21st century leaders. Leaders. See you right here next time on the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.