S4:E99🎙️ Live with Maman IBRAHIM (Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

Hello everyone, I'm Maman Ibrahim, founder of Dimco Resilience, principal at Eugene Zonda, and an eternal student of leadership, technology, and humanity. For more than two decades, I've worked across industries and continents, from Michelin and GSK to Helion and beyond, helping leaders transform cybersecurity and AI governance into sources of clarity, trust, and strategic advantage. But my story isn't just about technology, it's about resilience. I grew up believing that every person, like every organization, holds the potential to go from rough to diamond. That phrase defines my philosophy: growth through friction, strength through challenge, and brilliance through intentional leadership. Today, through my work at Ginkgo Resilience and Eugene Zonda, I partner with boards and CEOs around the world to build organizations that don't survive disruption. They thrive through it. I believe that cyber resilience is not an act of survival, it's an act of, an act of purpose, one that combines ethics, innovation, and courage. When I'm networking with executives, I mentor emerging cybersecurity leaders and explore the interactions between AI, behavioral science, and philosophy, because the future belongs to those who understand both Technology and Humanity. So to everyone watching, whether you're a naval officer preparing for command or a Silicon Valley engineer stepping into leadership, my message is simple: lead with clarity, act with conviction, and always remember resilience begins long before crisis strikes. Thank you, and I look forward to this meaningful conversation with Coach Beezy on the Leadership and Success Podcast. Game on, game forever!

All right, everyone, I'm very, very excited. We have a very special guest today, and thanks so much for watching the Leadership and Success Podcast. Today is Monday, October 27th. It's almost the end of the month. It's about 9 AM here in Silicon Valley, 12 PM Washington, DC, and 5 PM GMT in London, UK, where my guest is based. But before we do that, let's do our moment of gratitude as it is our custom here. We want to just take a moment, right, to really be grateful for something. I think it is important to be grateful every single day. I know times might be tough right now, but I want us to really have an attitude of gratitude. So, if you would, put yourself in your happy place, close your eyes, take a deep breath, and think about one thing you are grateful for today. And today I think I am really grateful that I woke up this morning, number one, and number two, that I woke up with my right mind. Somebody last night went to bed, but they didn't wake up today. Somebody else woke up this morning, but they were not in their right mind. And I'm just grateful that I'm here and that I can talk to you and that I can add value to you. As long as I am alive, I think there is hope for for me and for you. All right, so let me introduce our guest today. So I just found out that Mamadou, like me, French is his original language, and like me, he was born in a Francophone country, Niger, which I think Americans would call Niger, but it's a French-speaking country in Africa, just like the Congo where I was born. Now, like I said, he's based in the United Kingdom, but from his early days shaping digital transformation at Michelin and to founding Ginkgo Resilience, Mamane has dedicated his life work to helping global leaders govern with clarity, courage, and control. I love, One of his popular quotes: Cyber governance should be a source of strategic clarity, not bureaucratic burden. All right, without any further ado, ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome Mamane Ibrahime. Let me see if I can get him. Here we go. Thank you, Mamane. Are you there?

Yes, can you hear me?

I don't see you, I see a black screen, so I don't know. Uh, hold on, we just—

my camera is on.

Let me take you off and back on, let's see if that fixes it. No, I still see a black screen. Maybe if you click on setting and video, make sure the camera you wish is turned on. Okay, here we go. Now I see you.

Yay!

Thank you. All right, how are you doing this, this morning?

Oh, I'm doing good, I'm doing good. You are talking about gratitude every, every single day when I wake up and be able to get off the bed. It's a blessing for me.

Yes. Wow. Yeah, it really, really truly is to still be in the land of the living, because even if now things are not going your way, right, you are alive. Now, um, my father was Robert, so they would call him Bob in, in the US, but when he went to Germany His nickname became Bob, so that's what he named me. But my French name is Fabien Zinga. American call me Fabien. Anyway, my African name is Minu, which in Lari or Kikongo, it means hope or faith. And I like to be reminded of what my name is because as long as I am alive, as long as I still have breath in my body, right, there is hope for me. So that is quite Powerful. Thank you so much for sharing that. Now, what is something about you that most people may not know about?

I can't tell. I mean, what, uh, perhaps, uh, in my early age, uh, no, perhaps my origin. I come from a herder family.

Wow.

Yeah.

Please go ahead.

No, that's okay.

It's really amazing. I think we have so much in common. Speaking French, being from a French-speaking country, which was colonized by France, and now you are in cybersecurity and AI, so am I. So it's really Wonderful how the world is so big but then so small at the same time. Can you tell us about your leadership journey, how you came to be my man Ibrahim, and everything you do in cyber and AI?

Uh, I started, uh, really, uh, yeah, it's more riding the technology wave. I started my career 4 decades ago in radio communication, moved to telecommunication, moved to network, moved to the internet. All this following the technology evolution, the trends, and worked in different— working in different organizations. And as I was growing professionally, I was also going kind of higher on the responsibility ladder in organizations. And it just came naturally working, leading, leading small teams, growing, leading bigger teams, interacting with, with many people across the globe due to complexity, remote working, and all these kind of things. And then naturally I just start being interested by, by few topics, and leadership is one of them. More trying to find my place not looking at what others are doing. And everything that I was doing is just doing what I had to do normally, doing the best I can to be the best person as well. And coming from Niger and having spent my early life there, growing in a very complex and hard condition just shaped my person, and then I just expressed what I learned.

Wow.

That's how it started.

That is quite powerful. And something you often say, you mentioned that in the intro, from rough to diamond. What does that philosophy mean to you personally, and how has that shaped your philosophy style?

So it came from two things. The first one is when When I grew up, I learned very early, because I grew up in the desertic area, hard condition, that you never go out alone. First, you never go out alone. If you go out alone, due to my age and condition, if you have an issue, you may not come back home. The second one is it doesn't matter who is with you, whether it's a young person, whether it's an old person, whether the person is, is thought to be mad, or whoever the person is, this person might be likely to bring you back home, to help you come back home. This is what these two things, let's say, forge my, my thought. And from experience, I just find out that people are different.

Yes.

And because they are different, we have to approach every single person differently. And through the different learnings that I had, I came across the quote that is attributed to Albert Einstein. I don't know if it's a is true or not, but what it says is you cannot assess an elephant on its ability to swim or a fish in its ability to climb a tree. So it means that every person is different. And I have seen that happening.

I have—

I mentored, I coached many people who wanted to do things that were that were— they were told impossible because of their background, because of their education, because— but hey, at the end it happened. They made it. And I have many examples here as well that happened a few, few years back. A nurse that helped becoming a cyber cybersecurity auditor, or this kind of things. And still now I have some people that are from areas that are not technical who are willing to get into technology.

Wow.

So that's, I mean, that's, that's why I take it. And the other thing, it come, it was formalized from Rough to Diamond when I, I've, I expressed my my purpose as a leader, relentlessly from rough to diamond. Whoever the person is, if you focus on that individual, you can polish them, you can take them to become a diamond. A diamond is only a just a polished rock. So you just— our, our, our, our work as leaders, if I can say it this way, is to help people to get them to be diamonds.

Wow, that is really powerful. And by the way, we are already having a lot of feedback from LinkedIn. Greg Thompson is saying, "Gratitude, everything starts with this." Thank you so much, Greg. And also, if you can let us know where you are coming from, what city, what state, and which country, one thing you're grateful for, and if you have a question for my man. And Greg also says, You are referred to as Idris Elba, 007 of cybersecurity. I love that. All right, and there is another user, but the name didn't come through, but I believe when I looked on my LinkedIn page, I believe it's, uh, Kahina. She's chef de département commercial, so she speaks French. She says, uh, I hope, uh, for you a good life. And Don Christie says, uh, my man, you guide and inspire others with your cybersecurity knowledge. Finding a diamond in everyone. Thank you so much, Don. Let us know where you're coming from, what city, what state, what you're grateful for, and if you have a question for my man. And Don also said hello. All right, so we have a lot of people watching live and letting us know they are there. I love it when I'm not just talking to myself or to my guests, but we get feedback from the audience. And everyone listening too, as you listen to my man's story, please type down in the comment what you are learning or some leadership principle you're going to be able to put in practice this week. Thank you so much. So, Mama, let me ask you this. You've held a leadership role at, uh, at Lyon GSK and Michelin, driving on digital transformation and cyber ethics. What were some of the defining moments that tested your resilience as a leader?

Oh, this is a This is, you know, I will not get into specific details, but sometimes, because I was leading audit, IT audit, cybersecurity audit function, usually the most difficult conversations that I had where I just questioned myself where when we say when we land an audit and then the people who are in charge, the managers are doing the right thing. But I mean, you know, every time that you scrutinize something, you may come up with some weaknesses or some challenges, what, and depending on what what the rationals are behind. So when we get to share this kind of things, people are usually taking it very, very hardly. They take it for themselves, not for the job that they are doing. And, and because of that, they are doing the best they can to keep their, their organization safe. But anyway, we know that They are challenged always. And we know also that if nothing is happening, security, security team, cybersecurity leaders are not challenged at what they are doing, but they are challenged on how they are doing it and the means that are given to, to succeed. If there's no problem, then their existence as a team is questioned. So it means that every time that you come and raise a challenge to them, I mean, it's sometimes perceived weirdly or sometimes even in a conflicting approach. But yeah, wow, generally—

no, please, please continue.

No, I said generally As a human being, we don't like to be challenged in what we think we are best to do. But in this case, it's not— let's say the purpose of audit is not challenging people, it's challenging the organization itself, and sometimes questioning what the leaders are doing as well. So all these kind of things are biggest challenge that I came across because it involves personal feelings.

Yes. Which reminds me, right? So earlier you mentioned about the technical knowledge to be in cybersecurity, but it looks like there is also, especially if you're going to be a leader, an important component with emotional intelligence, right? How you deal with people, self-awareness, awareness of others, and how to be able to work with all kinds of people from different backgrounds. How important is that? How do you balance technical knowledge and emotional intelligence?

Well, you will be perhaps surprised, I don't need to balance them. I grew up learning that people are the most important thing. So I mean, I respect the people, the individual. Everyone is at the same, at the same place for me. And you see, because of these two elements that I mentioned about going and never go alone, and it doesn't matter who, who is with, is going with you, is that I don't, I don't mind if the person in front of me is a CEO or an analyst or the janitor. I mean, I treat them the same way. I respect them.

Wow.

That's what I learned. If you ask people who know me, they will tell you that if I go, I'm going early to the office. So the first people I'm interacting with are the cleaners, the janitor, the one putting in place the coffee shops and all this kind of thing. And I remember them. I learned to remember people. If I meet someone, I can remember this person 10 years after.

That's powerful.

So all this together is something that I don't even think about. I grew up doing that. That's what I learned. Yes. So it means that I don't need to question whether people— I put people first or no. They are people the same way I am a person. That's— we are together.

That is so powerful. Respect everyone and treat everyone with dignity regardless of, you know, their societal title or where they fall in. That's another thing I learned from one of my mentors, the late great General Colin Powell. When he was a Secretary of State, he said— I think it was in the basement of a building where people would help park cars, right? And most of the people working there parking cars, they were all immigrants. And usually people there, they wouldn't pay much attention to them. They have an accent and all of that. However, though, it's very important when you park your car, if you're number 1, number 2, number 3, that's very, very important, the order they put your cars in. Because if you're number 1, you get out first. If you're number 3, you're going to have to wait for number 1 and number 2 to get out before You get your vehicle. But anyway, the general went there, he was Secretary of State. They were like, what are you doing here? But he was just talking to them like a human being, right? Not like low-ranking immigrant. And no, just like from human being to human being. And then he talked to them, okay, how do you decide who goes to number 1, who goes to number 2, and who goes to slot number 3? He's like, in the morning when people come, if they say hi, how are you doing? And they ask about my kids, they go to number 1. But if not, they don't care about me, then they go to number 3 or number 4. So anyway, we are all human. It doesn't cost much to respect everyone. So I think that's a very, very important leadership lesson. Even when you are trying to get a job, you go for interviews, people like to flatter the CEO or the CIO, all of the executives, but it's the janitor, it's the person at the desk, the secretary, those are the people that many times are gatekeepers and you really have to treat them with respect. So I really love that.

Yeah. But let me add one thing about human element in cybersecurity. It doesn't mean that human element in cybersecurity should be neglected. I mean, because today what we are seeing is that human or mental health in cybersecurity space is neglected, is, is, is one of the challenges that is I don't know what's happening. It's either it's internal, or no one cares, or— but, but still, I'm working with a friend of mine about an article where we will, we'll cover this element, the human, the human element in cybersecurity culture in an organization. Because, I mean, you, if you don't treat people as human beings, with everything that, that it comes with, plus their own perspective. Because it's not only treating people as human. Yes, the persons that you are— you have in front of you should recognize that you are treating them as human and you are not patronizing them, and you are taking also the challenge that they are in into, into the picture. You see, one thing that I was surprised, it was when the pandemic hit during COVID Yes, we are, we are, we were given this kind of trainings as managers, as leaders, to take care of our people. Or I was looking at that surprised. Why do we need to learn how to treat our people.

Yes.

When we are all struggling in something together, it's not kind of we are watching them from balcony. We are in it together. When you go for shopping groceries, you queue for 3 hours.

Yes.

Same things that you, your guys are doing, you see.

Yes.

When they need help, they call. Even today, I'm always in contact with my people. So this is something that—

Okay, that was French right there.

Yeah, yeah.

Very good. So you're speaking Franglish. That is beautiful. Yeah, I do that too. No, that is really powerful, my man. We have a lot more comments from the discussion on LinkedIn, man. LinkedIn is on fire today. We have Dawn Christie. She's from Chicago and Greg Thompson from London. And Don says, I agree, my man, people are the most important part of life and the same applies in cybersecurity. That is so true. But however, in my experience, I've seen a lot of companies, especially in Silicon Valley, they say, yes, human beings are the most important asset, blah, blah, blah. That's what they say, but that's not what they do. The first opportunity they get, then you need to lay off 50, 20 people, they do it. They don't even think twice about it. But it's really something to be able to not just say it, but to actually live it out within the organization and the culture. And we have Rami Sham says, I agree 100% with my man. So you have a lot of fans out there. Okay, a question from, for you from Greg. Uh, you talk about turning rough into diamond, developing people, not just the process. How do you see AI fitting into that, number one? And number two, is it sharpening the craft of cybersecurity or dulling the human edge we actually need to stay ahead of threat actors. What would you answer to Greg?

Oh, what I will say to Greg is that, I mean, it's a— I will not, I will not oppose human and AI anyway. In the book that you, you mentioned, Thriving with AI, The AI Advantage, the one that you wrote, yeah, yeah, I wrote a chapter about how AI will change technology and cybersecurity. But everything that I said in that, in that chapter can be summarized as today anyway, we have to deal with AI. There's no choice. It's technology evolution. And what I can add as well is that 30 years back, for my thesis in telecommunication, I worked using artificial neural networks in computer design of telecommunication system. Okay, and guess what? We were only few of us working on that topic, then we just left to say, oh, there's no future on this.

Yes.

And see where we are now, uh, nearly 30 years back, uh, after that. It means that we cannot, we cannot change this evolution anyway. But yes, today the way it's going, uh is that human alone will not make it. AI alone will not make it. So, but human together, augmented with AI, will outperform human and AI separately.

I see. So in that case, then the second part of Greg's question, do you think that's sharpening the craft of cybersecurity, or is it dulling the human age when you add AI into the mix?

Oh, I mean, perhaps both. Yeah, both. Both. I mean, cybersecurity is changing. AI is bringing more security, but also more challenge, more threats.

Wow.

We can see that happening. AI-driven cyberattacks.

Yes.

And AI and cyber defense, AI-driven security as well. On both sides, it's both the same side of the same coin.

Yes.

Now, perhaps what we need to add in AI is the responsible use of AI, adding an element of ethics. AI should be governed responsibly. So we add ethics. Of course, I'm not going to elaborate about ethics, but you have explaining, explainability, fairness, or this kind of thing. Yes, technology will bring the core: robustness, security, and other things. But we need governance. On the other side, AI governance will ensure that AI is user responsibility, for the human, let's say, for to be best for human beings, to support human beings in, in every cases. Yes, you see. So that's one of the reason why I contributed to the, the responsible AI framework that's currently ongoing with the Global Council of Responsible AI, because we need to build something that will help us govern AI Yes. In the context where we are all together.

Hmm. Powerful.

Technology and on the other side, ethics and governance.

That is so powerful because you've mentioned it, right? You've contributed to major global frameworks like the World Economic Forum Cyber Resilience Compass, the Cloud Control Matrix, the OWASP Agentic AI Initiative. So what impact do you hope this work will have on the next generation of cybersecurity leaders?

So what I'm— what I'm— I mean, this contribution are just happening because there are a lot of people contributing. It's a voluntary— we are all volunteering for something. So I'm doing it because I'm member of this organization, uh, and sometime when they need volunteers, I just raise my hand.

That's it.

Uh, I give, but I learn more than I give. Yes, you see, I'm learning because I'm exposed to these leaders as well that are, uh, that have very deep expertise. So this one thing. And on the other side, uh, you need to have your voice heard if you want to contribute in shaping the future, you see. So that's, that's, that's what, um, uh, what I think I should do. So now This said, I mean, these contributions are done, I mean, to bring different perspective as well. So that's, that's powerful.

Now we have another question from the audience. Don from Chicago is saying, indeed, the human factor has been overlooked too often in cybersecurity. Why do we resist safety and security? That's a good question.

Perhaps because we don't understand very well how it relates to AI. Let me, let me take a few examples and say AI. So if you look at The bias on AI today, we are focusing on gender, race. What about disability? And what about the social impact of AI? All this kind of bias that are not, let's say, aggregated in the different controls over AI. For example, it means that not only AI, but in technology, we are always focusing on few more visible biases and then we overlook the others. It's more naturally because it's easier to push few things in front of people and then we focus on them and it become a kind of a message that is heard back and forth instead of looking at it globally. And also, Perhaps also the one of the element of bias is coming from people who are talking about it. They are coming of— there's a kind of a commonality between these people. They usually came from the same educational background, from the same culture, from all these kind of things, is creating by itself another bias because there are these ones who are more hurt.

Yes. Wow, that's powerful. And for everyone watching live, please keep sending those questions. I'm going to make sure that our expert, Maman Ibrahim, answers your question live during the show. Also, let us know where you're coming from, one thing you are grateful for, and I really do appreciate that. Kind of related to what Don said, so you've co-authored this book, The AI Advantage alongside Ferdi Global Expert. What does responsible AI leadership mean to you? And then after you answer that, with the rise of agentic AI, how can leaders prepare for a world where AI systems act independently?

So responsible AI to me is quite straightforward. I mentioned a few already. First, the ethical element. Okay. So globally, first, it's a— if I have to define it, I can use the definition that is somehow shared. It's a way of designing, building, and deploying AI systems that create trust, social, societal well-being. You see? So it means that during the different sessions that I I went to, I attended, there's a common pattern. Responsible AI should fit into the 17 SDGs, Sustainability Development Goals of the United Nations. You see, I'm not going to elaborate on this one. I don't remember them all. But globally, it's ethical, being ethical. So focus on fairness, accountability, transparency, and human rights.

Yes.

This is the ethical piece of the responsible AI. Then the technical one, because anyway, whether we like it or not, the technical element is, is also there: robustness, security, reliability, and explainability. Then comes the governance layer where we should provide people, leaders, a way to strengthen the oversight over AI. So it means that following values, societal values, laws, standards, and this, all this exists as well. It's not like they don't exist. It's just perhaps because we, we don't, we don't think about doing that. And usually, if you are implementing AI, or you have projects looking at it responsibly, you think it's coming with cost.

Wow.

While at the end, the more responsible you are, the more, let's say, business AI will bring to your organization as well. On the other side, it's a, it's like this privacy-related regulations.

That is really, really useful. Yes, yes. So insightful. I love what you say about human oversight too, especially like me in the US Navy, in the military, the US government, human oversight is a must, right? Especially if you're gonna use artificial intelligence into combat or anything like that, because the consequences could be very, very drastic and critical. All right, so we only have about 20 minutes left. I'm gonna switch over to the second half of the show where I'm gonna focus on leadership. One of the first questions I'm gonna ask you is, What is the greatest lesson you have ever learned in life?

Greatest lesson I have ever— oh, uh, perhaps, uh, it's where, when, when you are challenged that you discover your true self. Really, hardly the greatest lessons that I learned, I learned them where I was, uh, I was really hardly challenged. To me, this was the lesson. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That is powerful. Okay, let me ask you this. You started from humble beginning, which we show some of the picture of your original Nigeria, and today you are an authority cybersecurity and AI and all of the great work you do. What do you think is the secret of your success?

I will not, first, I will not say that I'm an authority on these matters. I'm just trying to find my place.

Very humble, I love it. So what is the secret of your success?

Perhaps continuous learning. Yes. Every day, every day I'm learning something new. Wow, that is every day. And not only learning by reading a paper or no formal education as well. Yes, I'm taking a class, I'm taking many of the executive educations that I had, I took them in that way. Classes, all this is happening this way. And on the other side is that Because now I have time to, to reflect on many things in my professional life. I'm writing a lot, sharing my experience as well, because I'm willing to coach and mentor the next generation of cyber leaders. I say next because it's not— I'm not waiting for the next to come. I want to contribute to get them there now. They need us now. As they grow, we help them because we have been there as well. We help, we give them a hand when they need it, not when they start struggling.

Yes. Wow, that is so powerful. It reminds me of what my primary mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, taught me, right? The difference between success and significance. Because when you talk about success is me, myself, and I. But when you become significant is when you help somebody else reach their goal and achieve their potential. That is so great. So what do you think is the greatest leadership advice you have ever received?

Oh, okay. Perhaps nearly 3 decades ago now, one of my mentors told me that knowledge is the only fair trade. The more you give it, the more you, uh, you, the better you are at it. Because, because we humans are all different, whether we like it or not, is that you convey it to one specific person and then you get better to it because of that. It gave And that's why knowledge sharing is the only fair trade. The more you give it, the better you are at it. Yeah. And ever since now, I'm sharing whatever I know. I don't know much, but when I read a paper that I loved, I'm sharing it. When I read a book, I'm sharing it. When I see something, I share it. Every time.

All right, my man, I must tell you, it's not just me. You are very humble. So says Greg, he is humble, he is a genuine, kind, honest person. And Don Christie, the humble leader always learns, well said. So everybody knows that you are a humble person and you know a lot more than you say you do and you are definitely an expert. But I guess the minute you say that you are a global expert, maybe you are no longer humble. The minute you said it. But anyway, but it is true, and I think it's a great quality for all of us to have, always wanting to contribute and put the focus back on other people. But part of the reason why I have you as a guest on the show today is because I want to put the focus light on you, right? You are my friend in the spotlight right now. So thank you so much. And let's see, uh, Don said something else. Let's see, she says, the more knowledge you give, the better you become. I am grateful to have learned much from our conversation. So that is so true. Okay, so let me ask you this, man, we are running out of time so quickly. What are you learning right now?

Well, what I'm learning right now, so you want the list?

No, no, no, just in general, because you talked about continuous learning, right? Leaders are learners. What kind of things are you learning now?

I'm still learning about AI. I'm focusing on responsible AI because I shared my, how I view it. But I mean, there are different perspectives, you see. So that's what I'm doing now. I'm sharing, I'm trying to understand all these things that are going out about AI. So I'm taking some online classes here and there to to understand this perspective. So this is one thing that I'm learning. The other thing that I'm learning as well is the human element. Yes, the human element. I'm reading a lot about it, but not just reading like I read a book. No, I read it and I go back, challenge it, go back and take notes, go back and try to, to, to, to understand better. And so these are the two things that are keeping me somehow busy in my learning journey. Yeah.

Yes. Very good. Another LinkedIn user said, uh, the best leaders with values of sharing. That is so true. We have to lead with an open hand. That's really how we all get, uh, better. So let me ask you this. We've talked about all of your successes. What about failure? Uh, To me, I got this coin, one side says success, the other side of the same coin says failure. So I think success and failure, two sides of the same coin. How has failure shaped your life?

Oh, so I will not quote Mandela as people used to do. Yeah, of course, failure, failure, I don't know how to Yeah, I felt, I felt a lot. I felt a lot.

Did you learn anything from those experiences?

Oh, I did. I did. Every time that I am— I'm not waiting for, uh, for years after the failure to start learning. Every time that I'm challenged before I failed, every time that I'm challenged, I will go back and question myself and try to see why. Yeah, understand the other, why the challenge was raised and the other's perspective. Sometimes I can say, okay, so what, I don't care. But most of the time, I will find something, a reason to go and dig. And when I fail, In many, sometimes it's failure in a relationship, it's failure on work or work stuff. I'm going back to the person to understand why, to understand why, why did I fail.

Yes.

Yeah. And then that's— I have—

I—

and what I learned from these failures first is that when you— when it's a person who challenged you about something you failed on, the same person is not comfortable to tell you where you fail. Because sometimes, I think, I'm not sure yet, the perspective of failure is not always, let's say, right. You can think that someone failed while the person didn't fail. They did whatever they could with what they had. Yes, to get something done. Perhaps it doesn't meet some of the standards if they were given more. Think about this, uh, uh, um, Assiso, okay, they have a budget, okay. Even I, I write it in one of the articles after If nothing happened in a year in their organization, do you think that they will have an additional budget to prepare upfront? No one will give them a dime on top of what they have. Because they are good, they didn't fail, then their success is invisible. It's— they become a cost center. Yeah, you see, so it's exactly how I see the actions of failure. When you are good, sometimes being good can be seen as well as something that is not good.

That is powerful. Yeah, you remind me of something, yeah, something that Oprah Winfrey once taught us that, no, If they knew better, they would do better. But wow, very, very powerful. So who are some of the people that you know that we should know? Some of the thought leaders you follow or mentors that we should know about?

Oh, okay. So it's more about really authors. You see, and one, one, one that I, that was an eye-opener is James Kars. So I, The Infinite Game. Oh yes, it, it was The Infinite, The Finite and Infinite Games. So I mean, I start I read James Kars after having followed Simon Sinek for a while. So he was talking about this. I said, no, there's something missing. It's not only about the infinite game that Simon Sinek is talking about. There is something deep. And then I read this book. Very, very little book, 160 pages. I read it 2 times, you see. And this one is one of the books that I can recommend to everyone. Of course, I already shared my reading list. If I have to pick another one, I will take— I will pick the Alain one. From— and that's this one, the next one.

Find it really quick. Yeah, I, I love this one.

Uh, yeah, it's not— yeah, I think you, you missed it.

Oh, I missed it. Okay, sorry.

Yeah, yeah. So Alan is from, um, uh—

oh, this one.

Yeah, Jonathan Trevor, where, where you can learn how to, how to, to have a strategic alignment really in organizations, but not only in organizations. What I value in this book is not the learning, the purpose of the book itself. It was meant for organizations to, to align from purpose to strategy to everything aligned. For performance and all this. That's fine.

Wow, leadership blueprint for overcoming disruption and improving performance. That is so— exactly, we talked about the Infinite Game, and I know Simon Sinek has a book about the Infinite Game as well. So that's James Kars. What about this one, We the Leader?

We the Leader? Oh, Jeffrey Spohn. When it was released, I read this book and then I was having some questions and I googled Jeffrey Spann and I sent him an email.

Wow.

With a list of questions. Then he responded to me. It's funny. He responded to me saying, oh, by the way, I understand why. And he sent me 2 or 3 articles that you wrote about exactly the same questions that I had. And then Here, the thing here is saying that, I mean, usually we have leader, followers, right?

Yes.

But what if you look at our interaction with people as leaders altogether? Because the person that is following you is also a leader from somewhere, from the other perspective, even if they are not seen as a leader, this kind of tagged as a leader. But imagine, they have a family, they raise kids, they are taking care of some people in their community. They are naturally leaders whether they know it or not.

True.

So this is what I love here.

Wow.

What Jeffrey did, he framed it so that you can use it.

Weave a leader.

Yes.

And interacting with people.

Yeah, yeah, I really love that because my primary mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, I love the way he defined leadership. Says leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. And if leadership is influence, then anybody can be a leader. You have influence over your husband, maybe your children, and, and so forth. Well, very, very powerful. So we talked about Simon Sinek, uh, already, and we align. What about Winning from Within?

So Winning from Within was recommended to me by a sponsor that I had when I moved to the UK. I was struggling. I requested some help. And then I had a sponsor who was helping me. And he recommended this book. What I discovered is that, I mean, whatever you are doing is driven by some internal challenges that you have. The conflicting thoughts, all this kind of thing. It helped me master some of, uh, element of my, uh, my behavior, my thought, so that I can temper my message, or I mean, I can adapt to the environment easily.

Powerful.

Again, yes, going to Yes is about, uh, negotiation and This program helped me in structuring my relationship with people that I don't know, mainly because in the workplace, when you join an organization, you are, you are meant to know the people from day one and work with them. But you, when you come, you have a whole bunch of politics and influences already established. You have to navigate through, you have to communicate as well. And this one as well, and negotiating as well. So these two books are coming from the program of Harvard program of negotiations that I attend. And this one was the book that my first boss within Michelin offered me, because he hired me and he shared this one, how Small change can have an outlasting impact. And Michelin is a learning organization. And it said by itself. So this one, Norman Marks is about agile auditing. So I'm a fan of Norman. I met him years back in training in Dubai. He didn't remember that, I'm sure. But he is a kind of He is one of the most influential guys in audit space, shaping the new dynamics of audit.

Wow. And finally, this one.

Yeah. Yeah, about measuring. Of course, today, we have everything that we need to capture everything, to measure everything in cybersecurity. It means that while metrics matters, you should also measure what matters.

Wow, that is really, really, really powerful. Thank you so much for sharing. Most of those books I've read before, but a few of them I haven't, so I'm gonna make sure to add them to my library. So let me ask you, if you could choose 3 people to have dinner with, who would you choose and why? They could be alive, dead, or even mythical figures.

The first one, Nelson Mandela.

You don't have to say anything else.

Number 2.

Okay, Madiba. Everybody knows.

Yeah, yeah, every— yeah, but let me tell you why.

Okay, okay.

No, no, let me tell you why. Because I went to South Africa dozens of times, okay? But having seen from inside, yes, how the society changed is just unbelievable. And I was 11 when I subscribed to Frontline, the ANC magazine. When I— before it came to Niger, when I subscribed, I mean, it was— it spent nearly a year to get to me. Every year I have a—

but, but hey, Before the internet.

Before the internet. But you have to go there to visit the Apartheid Museum, to talk to people, yeah, to spend some time to understand what forgiveness means.

Powerful.

Okay.

And seeing how they get to that level means that, hey, Did you, when you went to South Africa, did you have a chance to go look at his cell? Did you have a chance to look at Madiba's cell? Did you go to the island where he was imprisoned?

Oh yeah, many times, Robben Island. Yeah, I went there many times. Yeah, nearly every time that I visit, I went to, I have been for more than 15 years.

Really amazing, truly a very, very special man. 2 more people.

The second one, you'll be surprised, is Satya Nadella. Yeah, the CEO of Microsoft.

Microsoft.

Yeah, yeah. Only because of his empathy on innovation.

Uh, he's a different type of CEO for sure.

Yeah, yeah. And in my last paper, I I mentioned, I did some— I talked about relevancy and all kinds of things. And I mentioned him how he changed, he changed my— he changed Microsoft.

Yes, definitely. It was a huge change. I think I went to their headquarters, I think it was 2018, 2019. I mean, complete transformation. I didn't talk to him, but I talked to many people who report to him. It's completely, completely different organization. The culture of continuous learning and adding value and all of that is just phenomenal. Okay, who's the third person?

The third person is Chris Markowski. Chris Markowski is someone, his I cannot even define who he is. But he is my mentor. He is the person who opened many, many things, who unlocked many thoughts in my, in my brain.

And is he on LinkedIn?

He's on LinkedIn. And he, he is retired now. He used to be a professor on, and leading a program on innovation.

Wow.

That I attended, where, and you sit, you talk with him. And when you leave, you always have a smile.

Wow. That is really amazing. That's really part of the reason why I do this podcast. If you would share his LinkedIn with me, maybe he has a couple of books on Amazon that we may be able to recommend to the audience too.

Yeah, I will do that. And also he used to be the editor of a psychological journal on this kind of thing. I have to find it and I will share that with you so that you can share.

Thank you so much. We are already out of time, but can you give me like 5, 7 more minutes, please?

Yeah, go ahead.

I really enjoy talking to you. We have so much to talk about. This is very, very Insightful. Oh, by the way, Don, uh, Christie is saying one more thing. Excellent selection of books. Keep learning. And that is true. And no, I've read over 2,000 books since I was about 17 years old, but maybe about half of the books that you mentioned I've never read before. So I'm going to make sure to take care of that. And someone else, Ramisham, says well-picked books. So true. Okay. So, uh, what is maybe a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem? Which book, which song, or which movie would it be? If you could choose one song, book, or movie, your life's theme or anthem.

So books, no, song, I have been listening to Marley, Bob Marley, for all my life. All my life.

My father loved him. Yeah, so, but, but still, I'm, uh, it's very specific song from Bob Marley that means a lot to you?

Uh, not only one, but, um, Lively Up Yourself, uh, I Shot the Sheriff. If you listen to the messages behind this one, are very very strong one.

Yeah, very good. Yeah, that takes me back to when I was growing up because my father loved Bob Marley, all of his albums. Yeah, we had it at home.

Yeah.

So a book, I have many books that I'm reading at the same time, but The Infinite Game, Finite and Infinite Game of James Kars is the one that I have really now close. I mean, I can pick it and read anytime, and it's just here. So yeah, this one. Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

So what is one action you are thinking about taking that you think will positively impact your life?

Oh, I think the one thing that I— this idea of Consciously coaching and mentoring people changed my life. I started around 20 years back when I formalized it and started giving trainings in project management to leaders back, back in Michelin, and I just keep going, keep doing it. And even This is something that changed my life. Because I found that, you see, my purpose, Relentlessly From Rough to Diamond, applies to me as well. It's more about me just opening up to do, to help people do the same that I'm doing.

Yes.

So this is something that changed my life.

Wow.

And the only, I cannot imagine a day where I'm not sharing something with someone that helped them. Yeah, always.

Thank you. Very, very powerful. So if you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

If I have only one day to live, final contribution, uh, if it's true that it's the only day It's the last day, then I will, I will reach out to the people that I love to have them with me this last day. We just sit, you see. Uh, I sometimes, uh, when I was growing up, sometime with some mentors or with some family members, with people that I love, really, we just sit. Loving someone is just being able to sit with the person without a word for days. You don't need to talk a lot. We don't need to— no, you just, you are just there and you feel good, you feel safe. That's so— that's what I will do. I will put together all the people that I love and we sit. Whether we talk or not, it doesn't matter. We are just sitting together. And then when you look right, you see one, the other one is at left. And all this, that's it. Yeah, yes, that's it.

And Greg is saying, uh, love your work, my man. And, uh, when you wake up in the morning, what is, uh, one problem you would like to solve?

No, I don't, I don't wake up with problems.

But is there a problem in the world right now you would like to solve, one that's important to you?

Oh yeah, Yeah, so, uh, I think, I mean, I want, if I can do it, I just want to wake up in a safe world.

Hmm.

Uh, which, that's, uh, now you understand why I'm saying, I mean, I don't think about it because safe world is just, uh, uh, some things that, uh, I, I guess no one will see.

But if you had a magic wand, you would like the world to be safe?

Yes, I will. I, I, I would like the world to be safe, and then we just— everyone thrive. We just go ahead, we do whatever we can do to get a, uh, let's say, to live our life without, uh, looking at all this kind of, uh, nonsense that's happening everywhere.

True. Yeah, because the thing— thanks so much for sharing that. Now, I was born in Africa, you know, French culture, and then I moved to the US. The world is very big, but in many ways, doesn't matter who you are— African, European, American, or Asian— we are really all the same, right? I think everybody wants to be validated, we want to be loved, we want to be recognized, and just listen to, just know that we do matter. And yeah, I think we need the world to be safe for everyone. That is powerful. Okay, we are coming toward the end now is when we ask you, thank you so much for your time and thank you for going over by 10 minutes. I really appreciate that. How can we add value back to you, my man Ibrahim?

Oh, how you can add value to me? I know you are, you are already, you are already doing it. You, you see what I'm doing, uh, I have a lot going on, uh, just, uh, communicate about everything that I'm doing. That's it. And then what will happen will happen. Uh, we are We are just in this, we are here together anyway. It's not kind of someone looking others. We are all together in the same game.

Yes.

So yeah.

Thank you so much. So everyone follow Maman on LinkedIn, Maman with an E, and then also purchase his book, The AI Advantage. Thank you so much. So to end, actually, before I ask you this question, is there anything I should have asked you during this podcast episode that I haven't asked yet? Any question you wanted to answer I didn't ask?

No, no, you did already a lot.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Again, sorry we went a little bit over, but I think it's so important for my audience to really get your wisdom. So this is probably the most important question, I think, of the entire podcast. If you could go back and give a piece of advice to your 17-year-old self, standing at the edge of this incredible career you've had, what would you say to 17-year-old Mamane?

Uh, I will, I will advise my 17-year-old to be bolder because, uh, I mean, everything that I get here Uh, I will say randomly. I didn't plan for all this happening. I was just doing my piece, okay, my contribution, like kind of the colibri effect. It's just to, to be bolder. I can't imagine what I could have done if I was bolder at 17.

Wow, powerful. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's And also, by the way, the reason why I asked this question and why I say 17, because when I was 17 years old is when I came to the US. I had this huge big idea, big dream, but I had no idea how to go from point A to point B. And life just, you know, I guess got me where I am today and I'm very grateful for it. Oh, also, by the way, Greg Thompson says, need a big room on your final day. That is so true. We are a big family. And Don says, amazing discussion. Thank you. All right, so this is going to be really, really quick. In less than 2 minutes, we are going to be done. So don't take too much to think. Okay, I'm gonna ask you, this is gonna be rapid fire. All right, one word that defines great leadership, one word.

Authenticity.

Okay, morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded?

I don't have any routine. Okay, except sitting and having my 2 or 3 coffees.

Okay, coffee, that is good. All right. Book or quote that changed your life? I think I know which one you're gonna say. Yeah, this book is definitely going to buy this one today, I promise you that. Thank you for sharing with us. And, uh, who inspired you most today?

Who inspired me more today?

Who's your greatest inspiration?

I think, uh, I think, uh Don't take too long to think. No, I mean, inspiration. You, you, you did through the questions that you asked, it triggers already my brain is running on the background. I have few things to take. Yeah, I don't know, and you will be surprised, you will see some of the topics ending as an article sometime soon.

Thank you. But I must tell you, you are our greatest inspiration. That's why I run this show, to find people like you so we can get your knowledge and experience. And thank you, thank you so much. Okay, finish the sentence: leadership is—

leadership is authenticity.

Very good. You're back to what you said. Very consistent. Okay, what did you want to be when you were a kid?

When I was a kid, I wanted to be a doctor.

Okay, you are not a doctor today. All right, uh, what were 3 adjectives describing you as a child?

Uh, 3 adjectives. This is 3 adjectives as a child. Oh, I don't— I have them in mind, but I don't, I don't, I don't have a— perhaps Uh, yeah, I can say I'm in French here, but I can say in English also.

Okay, okay.

And perhaps, uh, bold. Okay, I was always the one that, uh, is asked to go and do something that is forbidden, and I go for it without it.

One more.

And, um, uh, Supportive, because I help. Okay, I always help my friend. Very good.

And what about as an adult, 3 adjectives?

I think they are still the same.

The same?

Yeah.

Malicious.

Oh, très malicieux.

Oh, très bien. Okay, now this is a very, very last question. After this, the show is over. Give me one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast together.

Extraordinaire. Wow.

I am grateful. Very, very, very grateful. Très appréciant. Merci beaucoup, mon ami, my man Ibrahim.

Merci, mon ami.

Thank you.

Merci, mon ami.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right, everybody, this was my man Ibrahim, and he is the author of the best-selling book on AI, which is The AI Advantage. Cybersecurity expert and really a global sensation. I'm so, so grateful he was here with us today. Thank you for all of those who participated and asked questions. I really do appreciate that. We went a little bit over, but I'm so grateful for his time today. And I want to remind you, tomorrow I'm gonna be talking to Coach Renata Bernardi, originally from Brazil and now she lives in Australia. She's an award-winning career coach and she will be talking to us. She's the host of the Global Job Hunting Podcast. You don't want to miss it. And then on Wednesday, I'm going to have two interviews. I'm going to have Coach Valerie Martinelli, LinkedIn Top Voice and Leadership and Career Transformation Coach. And then in the afternoon tomorrow, I mean, on Wednesday, I'm going to be talking to Lieutenant Commander Amy Forsyth. She's also a Marine Corps enlisted veteran. I'm going to be talking about leading with purpose. All right. This week is going to be pretty busy. And thanks again for watching. And until next time, this is Coach Bizzy. I look forward to seeing you here tomorrow. Bye-bye. Bye, everybody. This is Coach Bizzy. Thanks for watching. Until next time. Don't forget to like, comment, and share.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.