S5:E10🎙️ Live with Tambra Raye Stevenson (Multi Tracks Audio)

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach Hi, I'm Tambra Rae Stevenson.

I saw the tail of my two grandmothers. They both lived within the same part of northeast Oklahoma City. Both had diabetes. One died from complications and the other one is still living. What made the difference? How can our food be our medicine? How can the stories we tell be our medicine? And what is the role that policy can play to create a culture of health? I asked her, what keeps you going?

We were farmers and we had like 360 acres of land. We grew everything. And then we had an orchard with all kinds of fruits like pears, apples, peaches. Most of us eat what we want to eat, like hamburgers and lots of sweets. It's very important to eat right. And exercise, of course. We have to exercise. I never stopped.

If you could be the author of your story, how would you change the next chapter of your life? Whether it's your story or your organization's, you have the power to change your narrative, and when you do that, you truly will change your life. So I hope that you can join me on this journey of what it means to take not only our food as medicine, our stories as medicine, but using the power of policy to change the trajectory of our communities, to create a culture of health, to fulfill the purpose that is destined for our life.

All right everyone, uh, hold on, I made a little mistake here, let me fix this. Uh, I am so glad today, uh, welcome to, um, the next episode of the, uh, Leadership and Success Podcast. And I am really happy that you are here. We have a very special guest waiting in the green room, but before I bring her on, first let me say that this is the second show for today. So today I'm really grateful for all of the illustrious guests that we've had on the Leadership and Success Podcast Season 5, if you can believe it. And today is already Episode 10. So I am very grateful for that. Please let us know what you are grateful for in the comments and also where you are joining us from, what city or state in the US, and if outside of the US, which country. All right, before I bring in my guest, let me see if I can attempt to introduce her. So today's guest is quite phenomenal. All right, we're going to be speaking with Tamara Rae Stevenson. She's a food justice visionary, a scholar, a practitioner, and a cultural engineer. She's really working at the intersection of public health, leadership, policy, and storytelling. She's the founder and CEO of WANDA, Women Advancing Nutrition, Dietetics, and Agriculture, and she's also a TEDx speaker, a policy advisor, and a James Beard Award judge, and the trusted voice shaping the global Food as Medicine movement. So her leadership reminds us that food is not just fuel, but food is also identity, power, and policy. So please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, Tembra Rae Stevenson. All right. Good morning. I guess afternoon for you, Tembra. How are you doing?

Happy New Year, Bob.

Yes, happy new year. I can't believe it's 2026 already. We've made it. Yay! So, ready to, to get started? Is there something you are grateful for today?

I'm grateful to have health. Um, that is the new wealth, as the Dietary Guidelines for Americans was just released, uh, yesterday from Health and Human Services. And so I went grocery shopping and packed up what is my real food to keep my real life together. So yes, to feed my family.

That's really wonderful to know. And I'm really hoping that, you know, 40+ million Americans are going to be able to afford their health insurance this year. Because like, I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said, prevention is better— an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Right, which is quite insightful. Is there maybe something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you? Anything you want to share?

Um, wow, um, that— there can be a lot. Many may not know I was a congressional nominee for West Point, uh, when I was in high school. Wow, military town. Um, and so yeah, like, number of my colleagues, uh, in senior year of high school was interested in Air Force. I lived near Tinker Air Force Base, so West Point looked like it was like the number 2 tier on the ladder. So I was like, might as well go civilian if that.

Really? Wow. Because West Point is actually what, what after you I'm gonna be interviewing on Colonel Ice Gibson, uh, retired colonel from the U.S. Army. He went to West Point. I mean, it's one of the best schools in the country, and of course education is completely free, but of course you have to serve your country in uniform after that. But just not— just being considered is a huge honor. Wow.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what people don't know about me, that in my high school applications for scholarships my career goal was to be a bilingual military teaching physician.

Wow, that is quite amazing.

Yeah.

Oh, all right. And, um, so I, I really love all of the, uh, work you do. Can you maybe— oh, I guess another thing that you are doing, you are also working on your PhD, right? You are?

Yeah.

But which is pretty amazing, man. Is there anything that you haven't done yet? That's quite amazing. Just—

I'm trying to make up for what my ancestors couldn't do.

Yes, yes, yes. Uh, I don't know, but one of my favorite poems by Angelou's "Still I Rise," right? Every time I read it, I always choke, especially when she says, no, uh, I am the— what is it— the, uh, my ancestors' wildest dream.

Wildest dreams.

Yeah, it's, it's just, uh, amazing. It's, it's so, so powerful. So, uh, when people look at your work, from Wanda to policy to TEDx, they do see impact, right? That's really what comes to mind. But I'd love to start more simply, uh, what calls you to this work every day, the work that you do?

Honestly, uh, growing up in Oklahoma, being in my room writing in my journals, dreaming of a new world, I would say that it's looking at my own family, uh, rooted in values, rooted in tradition, but also looking at how do I create new traditions for the next generation? And it begins with me. And for so many, I saw different kinds of lifestyle-related diseases from diabetes, stroke, heart disease, breast cancer. And I didn't want that to be my destiny, whether it was coded in my DNA or not. And it was not that I knew nutrition, honestly. As a first-gen college student, there's a lot of career paths you don't get exposed to as a student. And so it took time and it took just keep asking questions, being curious, being creative, having a work ethic, having a hustle about you, a grit about you that's well documented. And to me, that thirst for knowledge and being a lifelong learner and making my own success formulas. I remember writing in my essays that my success formula was F²P², so faith, focus, prioritize, and patience.

Wow.

So in other words, people around me I saw doing short-term gratification habits, but knowing that if you were willing to have long-term gratification, it— like The birth of avocado takes 9 months. So this, uh, another vegetable, um, may take much longer, but, um, the fat, the protein of what an avocado has is worth the wait. And not many people are willing to make the wait happen.

Wow, that is so insightful. F²P²: faith, focus, prioritize, and patience. Where do you think that came from? That is so powerful.

Like I said, I'm an introspective person. I've— and when I think about observations, I love reading biographies of leaders, of Black women, people who made history and impact in over the last 100+ years. And yes, just what prepares you to be a PhD student. You take data, you make meaning of the data. And that's how I came up with my own framework and algorithm is what I can now realize I did. But I think just the nature of being a Virgo— Virgos are known to trying to categorize things, as I've come to learn. So it's, it's encoded in my genes.

Wow, that is so, so powerful. And, and I really like, you know, faith being one of your core values— having faith in yourself, I believe, faith in others, and for those who believe in God, faith in God also. I think us as a people definitely would not have made it this far if we didn't have faith. It's such a central part of who we are because everybody else, they would have been extinguished from the universe by now. But we are still here and it really speaks to our faith. It's quite incredible. So what kind of got you into this work, though? Because I've never really spoken to a food justice visionary. You are the first one. And so just incredible.

Well, there's a lot out there, trust me.

Wow.

People in our communities across this country who are doing the good fight of being food freedom fighters, working on the front lines of changing policy, advocating on behalf of the voiceless of our communities, being the meal healers, the cultural keepers, and the culinary creators that we need at a time like now. And I would say, you know, the foundation of growing up in the heartland in Oklahoma, back to frameworks, is the 5 Fs: the faith, food, family, and freedom. I throw in football too because that's the heartbeat of the heartland and South, but I understood that food was how we gathered, how we build community, how we celebrate memory, how we have collective identity within that, and so it wasn't You know, it started with, you know, making a play restaurant menu, my dark sister being my first customer. Mom's, you know, leftovers was always the special of the day. And not realizing that there's a whole career in food beyond restaurateurs. So I didn't learn that until I stepped foot at Oklahoma State University and interned at Texas Children's for a summer with Dr. Steve Abrams and showed how clinical nutrition, pediatric nutrition research, um, studying the isotopes of minimae tropicana, seeing the nutritional differences between the two. I was like, wow, the science of nutrition. And that became powerful for me to appreciate and understand and change my career path my sophomore year to human nutrition.

Well, and towards the end, you, you have to remind my audience, I believe you have a special event for Black reminds something about, uh, most definitely cooking. Yes. I think we definitely want to hear about that, man. It's really, really, uh, fascinating. So you said the 5 F's: faith, food, family, freedom, and football. Can't forget football. Football.

Okay.

Yeah, that's definitely an American thing. Where I was born, it's called, uh, soccer, but, uh, football is more like being a gladiator from my point of view, but exactly. Anyway, it is quite powerful. So I guess the follow-on question I have for you, Venen, and again, thank you so much for sharing this. When you are tired, and I'm sure sometimes you are, or discouraged and you want to give up, what reminds you this work still matters today?

All you have to do is watch the news to know that it matters. Or get a notification on your social media, um, see, you know, the two-degree separation, uh, a friend of a friend who may have their own challenges related to the topic of the day. Um, so there's more than enough, um, around us to motivate us. Um, but if you want to go, uh, internal, uh, in terms of like what is the central core that drives It's acknowledging that we all have a purpose on this earth. Now, whether we choose to accept that assignment is something totally different, but understanding that food happens just to be one pathway to express the ultimate goal of how do we make an impact on this world to make it a little bit better than where we were before. But also, um, I had my own, um, You know, I do exercise on a spiritual level as much as a physical, mental level, and understanding the phrase that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. And so what are those seeds that we are planting that will bring hope to humanity and pull the weeds of dope, which is doubting others every day, to recognize that that is the balance that we try to create in this world, just like homeostasis within our body. And if we have too many weeds that overgrow the garden, it chokes the life of hope that the seeds can bring forth to feed to the community and the harvest that it has hope for the next season. So for me, being able to be grounded in my grandparents and my mom giving me my first Bible, and to understand that is that faith rooted in me and our culture that anchors me every day to know, you know, what would Jesus do in this moment, and reminding me that I'm a mere human but I still have capacity, as long as there's life within me, to continue to overcome and be resilient at a time like now. And so for every— Joyce Meyer would say, new level, new devil. So if you feel that life is hard, it's because you're being prepared for the next battle in front of you.

That is so, so powerful. And really, with the advocacy you do, right, that's, I guess, one reason why I don't understand white supremacy, because it excludes everybody else and only leaves one type of people, and usually even women are not included. Oh no, we do.

I mean, I, I do understand what you mean by exclude, but this is one of the reasons why my research is about belonging and why my new substack that I launched recently is called Bloom Where We Belong, is that it's not about total exclusion, it's about re-ranking who is priority and developing platformings and deplatforming others. And so just as my ancestors 5 generations ago helped to build this country, uh, we have a situation where they played a role. They just didn't get the shine, but they were the hidden figures in the food system. So I acknowledge, um, you know, the sentiment, but, uh, Now, you can't create US without us.

Yes, yes. No, that is, that is, uh, so, so powerful. And of course, on your website, I'm one, but I also love how you really, uh, go back and, uh, you know, give credit and remember those who have come before us and all of the artwork. Yeah, because part of the reason why also I have this, uh, podcast is because for whatever reason, we tend to completely disregard people of color, especially women. I think it was Malcolm X who said, "A Black woman is the most disrespected person in the universe." And I think that is so, so true. And really this society wouldn't be what it is without the work of Black women. And it's really amazing how even for the civil rights and all of that right now, they've used the same thing to include Asian and people from all other countries and culture and gay and lesbian and everybody else kind of falls under the work that we did always, including everyone and having everybody to have this sense of belonging. And I think that's really the true aspirational nature, right, of our country. It didn't start that way. We said all men are created equal, but obviously that's not the way we started, but it was an aspiration that I think Black people have really done a lot in our history to make it a reality for all people. But anyway, I could be talking about this forever, but basically what I'm saying is I really appreciate the work that you are doing. Someone needs to do it. And the more I did research for this podcast, the more I was impressed by everything you are doing. It's really amazing because you lead across so many systems, community, academia, government, global spaces. So how do you define leadership at this stage of your journey? And also you still relatively young. It's just amazing how you've been able to accomplish so far. Like, what is your drive? Like, how do you expand that?

My, my, my, so I have a couple of responses. One, I want to touch on the point you made earlier. I don't want to gloss over that because it links to the very question you just raised. So the power of propaganda and the power of master narratives is that we are— have to have a sense of agency of what narratives do we choose to digest, just like food. And that is why the short video you showed prior to my coming on about our food is our medicine, our stories is medicine, is not a simple phrase to gloss over. It's to acknowledge that the stories that we choose to digest, meaning someone else wrote those stories, or we can rewrite the story. And the only way that I can be where I am now is because I chose to rewrite that narrative that may have been a master narrative or a stereotype or trope, whatever the language is, um, to define, um, a group of people that I've chosen not to inhale and digest. So just like getting a colonics to remove the toxic waste out of my colon to not have cancer, I too remove the toxic narratives that no longer serve me and digest the food that nourishes me. And I think if everyone begins to see the power of media and why I studied health communications at Tufts and why that was powerful versus just communication alone, it was to understand that the communication is a social determinant of health. So just like the pandemic showed the infodemic, a push of misinformation and disinformation online and understanding that rumors move faster than truth in society. And it was very much the clear, uh, the truth digitally. Um, this is what we know to be true. And so for me, I chosen to say I will be the author of my life. I will rewrite what that narrative is. Every day I have an opportunity to wake up and create a new narrative or choose to silence and be still in the moment and wait as I generate and birth a new narrative that is authentic and true and not just writing stories for the sake and fake of it all. And so having gone through a quarter-life crisis, which some folks out there know what that is, it gave me an opportunity to reflect on life. We can choose to go through life checking off boxes of things that we want to accomplish. Which that does serve a purpose. Or we can choose to say, am I living my false self or am I living my true self? And the only way you can really understand if it's true or false is by understanding the power of the intuition that lies in our gut. When you wake up, do you feel at peace with your life? Do you feel trouble or irritation of your life? And I think that as more people, especially this year, take on a goal of, am I listening? Am I in tune from within? Then you will get a signal that is the God within the seat of your soul to know how to move and navigate in society. And also, the reason why this is powerful is Stanford had a study about the silencing of self. It revealed a number of women in our society choose to silence ourselves, and society reinforces that, no differently than the idea of children being your place. Don't say anything. Imagine. Doing that to a whole adult of a different gender, and we internalizing it and also doing it to ourselves. You will have other women policing other women.

Yes.

So I think the other part that I've learned from that is the autoimmune diseases that rises. I see it within my own family of women who have lupus, fibromyalgia, like all these issues. And I said, if I were to look at their lives and say, I don't want to go down that path, what do I need to do differently? That means don't be quiet at a time that your voice matters most, because there will be a time when you will need to have a voice, but you will not be able to use it.

Wow.

So use it when you need it now, in season, and not be out of season.

That is so powerful.

Wow.

Let me just take a minute to think about this. Two things. One thing you said remind me of, uh, Madeleine Albright, the first woman, uh, Secretary of State under Clinton. She said there was a special place in hell for women who didn't support other women. But she also reminded me really this, I don't know what I want to call it, I guess the struggle is really for Black people, it's really universal. And it really goes across cultures, boundary, and time from Africa to America, to the island, to Europe, really all around the world. I'm reminded of Nelson Mandela, one of the poems he really loved about agency was Invictus. He was in jail for 27 years, and he said this poem really kept his spirit up. The last stanza says, "It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishment the scroll. I am the master of my fate.

I am the captain of my soul." I have that very poem framed in my children's room to remember that, Invictus.

That is amazing, that is amazing. Okay, so, uh, what values then are non-negotiable for you as a leader, even when the system pushes back? And I'm sure it will, especially in these days. Uh, what are non-negotiable for you?

Freedom. Uh, I've learned that on every level, um, and, and you can say freedom of movement, freedom of voice, freedom of opinion, freedom of um, just making decisions on your own life. Um, and that can be any partnership, a relationship, uh, that's a, a working relationship or a personal relationship. And the freedom, um, of choice— as you quickly begin to see, the opportunity to choose becomes, um, sometimes, uh, part of game theory. Uh, choices have already been made for you. You're just selecting what people have given in front of you. But the ultimate goal is to know that even not choosing 15 is a choice. So meaning you can opt out of the game just by not even participating. Um, and so understanding that is also another critical point. And I think that's why we're talking about critical thinking becomes another value system of a leader, um, or just people, period. Because if you're not able to critically think, um, all the ways in which, um, how to move in, uh, society, just like, you know, Indiana Jones and the Tomb Raiders, like, how would you know Uh, how to achieve the ultimate goal. Um, and that means already having a preset of values to determine what should be the direction you move or not.

Wow, that is really, really, really powerful. Because when you think about our history, you know, when the, uh, so-called master didn't want the slave to learn how to read and understand and not be able to vote. That's why when I became a U.S. citizen, one thing you will never be able to prevent me from doing is going to the polls and vote every single time there is an election, whether it's local or statewide. Some people only vote every 4 years only for president, but no, I'm gonna vote every single time because I know the price that so many people have paid.

Exactly.

It's a choice. Yeah, it's, uh, wow, powerful. So you, you often say that the food is not just medicine, right? It's identity and power. I read that in your intro. So how should leaders think differently about systems that touch people's daily lives?

Oh, should leaders think differently about systems?

Mm-hmm. That touch on people's daily lives. When you think about food being more than just food, it's medicine, identity, and power in that context.

Yeah. I mean, power is the heart of all of this and the politics of food as well. We see that when we choose not to see the power within the food system, our health system, within our own organ systems, we almost relinquish the power by not even acknowledging it. And so I would say, as we understand that the goal sometimes is not to even think about the system. I'll give you the example. Uh, years ago in the news, you would hear about childhood obesity, and it was framed as parental responsibility, that if parents simply just fed their children better, we would have healthy children. Well, if you take a systems approach and counter that narrative that was pushed in the media, one would acknowledge if you knew how the system operated, that someone had to lobby in order for certain food products to be in the system. So that means the school system and the healthcare system, um, in the grocery stores. And therefore you think you have choice, but then some foods were subsidized over others that involve corn, soybean, and wheat. And those that were fresh produce, vegetables, and fruits were not. Until we now have the Double Bucks program. But even then, is it really like par for the course? And when we acknowledge that on the media system side, we at one point had the Saturday morning programs that were educational and entertaining, and then they went away. Why? Because the data was very clear. Toys and TV go hand in hand. The TV show became an extended commercial to sell the toy. You can't really do that if it's just about fruits and vegetables. And so you begin to see the commingling of systems operating together.

Wow.

The benefit of profit over people if you don't understand how policy and positioning and power operates.

Yes. And leveraging these platforms, man, that's, that's quite insightful. Can you tell us a little bit more about this, uh, Food Bill of Rights and the work you've, you've done.

Yes.

Wanda.

So it was clear again from looking at the history, like pioneers like Fannie Lou Hamer, who understood economic democracy was critical. She tried to do her part, but at the same time she understood going to the people was even more powerful of teaching them how to feed themselves.

Mm-hmm.

Food Bill of Rights became a birth project out of the Food Democracy Initiative that we began at Wanda of surveying more than 1,000 Americans, of asking a question around, do you trust our current system? What do you believe that a Food Bureau of Rights can do? And then putting together a policy paper that we pushed to the White House back in '22, went to the White House Conference on Hunger, Nutrition, and Health, joined other human rights leaders in advocating to the UN Special Envoy or Rapporteur on xenophobia, racism, and discrimination, as well as the Special Rapporteur on right to food, Michael Fortenot, and being able to communicate what recommendations should we give to the UN for the US to help ensure that food should be a right. Now, on this part, in '22, the US did not sign the ratification of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. It's not the only country, but I'm only going to stick to the one I'm a citizen of.

Yes.

And so for me, it's acknowledging that at one point in our history, let's go back to the 1960s. My colleague Bobby Smith, who writes the book Food Power Politics, over at UIC speaks to food being weaponized for the very fact Fannie Lou Hamer and others were pushing for voter education.

Yes.

And the federal food commodities becomes null and void because of budgetary concerns by the White Citizens Council. One could say, well, why is that? You have sharecroppers who are out of jobs because the industrialization of agriculture. This program steps inside. They saw it as a government supermarket. Those who were entrepreneurs who ran their own private food retail outlets saw it as competition. And so this is when you see the advocacy among private, uh, food, uh, retail owners being able to get the food stamp program in place. I say this because the civil rights organizations, NAACP, SNCC, these were not the groups advocating for a food stamp program. This was to benefit private grocery stores. And I think we need to understand that because you then go to Reagan, who uses— at that time, you see the propaganda under his administration of putting the face of a Black woman as a face of welfare. Knowing that the true welfare queens are corporate. Okay. So it became critical to know this of why the historical background of a Food Bill of Rights becomes important, because it lays out 7 articles of how we should be thinking about— not let's go beyond just rights of food in the UN Declaration of Human Rights, because that's just one line. What does that really mean? And we're saying it means so much more. It means the right to have a livelihood in the food system, the right to have respect and dignity in the food system, the right to have the education of our history, of understanding what food freedom should look like, and being able to grow your own food. So food sovereignty is a part of that. So it is taking a public health approach and designing a framework to a food system that sometimes is not thought of in the context of public health. And thinking about just like how we have armed forces, acknowledging that the armed forces of our food system that should be collaborating together are chefs, our farmers, our healthcare providers, as much as our, you know, media makers and food policymakers coming together. And unfortunately, they operate in silos at times. And the goal of this is to acknowledge that we have to operate as one unified system, as what we saw between food and health systems now trying to come together in the Food is Medicine movement. Because why were they separate in the first place? Of course food should be our medicine.

Wow, man, really the work you are doing really has the potential to be globally impactful with the UN and then also affect everybody throughout these United States. So we have our first comment from our audience. Martial, he say, yes, get rid of the toxic narrative. And Martial, so let us know, for those who are watching live, where you are coming from, what city-state, and also if you have a question for Temba. I mean, I am really, really impressed by the work you do, and I think our audience would like to know how we can support you. But Let me ask you this, if I may. You may not want to answer this, but I think we probably should talk about this. Let's talk about them because you've shared a line that has stayed with me. You said, "I turn my pain into purpose, almost like an alchemist." If you are comfortable, and only if you are, would you be willing to kind of share what that season of pain taught you about leadership, healing, or yourself?

So that line comes from this understanding of what we've seen in history. Think about the power of what it meant to write the Declaration of Independence for the US versus just verbally saying that, as what we know about traditional oral storytellers on the continent. When you put pen to paper, your dream comes that much closer to realization, and it leaves, just like an archaeological dig, a piece of evidence to discovery for future generations to find. So whether it is a piece of history that is positive or negative— there's some great examples out there, um, Yes, the Bible was one. Someone chose to write that down. What has it done to society, um, around the world? And so I understood that as a girl who sometimes did not value my voice from those close around me, that at some point in those quiet, darkest moments, where is God speaking to you in your soul, reinforcing you, bringing you angels into your life? To say that I didn't put you here to leave you behind, but to be a blessing to others. And so what truths do I see that others cannot, that need to be documented for the next generation to take the baton and run with it and give them the blueprint that I was not able to fully execute? But at least I began designing like an architect what the vision I see for others to help implement.

Wow, that is so insightful. Thank you for sharing that. What would you want leaders who are listening right now, who may be carrying this quiet pain, to hear today?

Well, one, to first see yourself as a leader. You don't have to be a CEO of an organization to lead. You can lead wherever you are. Start by leading your own life and not being enslaved to a system or to anyone else's thoughts. So that's the first acknowledgment, is free your mind, free yourself. And the only way you begin to do that is first believing that you have choice every day in the decisions that you make. Where you choose to wake up, choose to stay in bed, that is choosing to lead or not. That's saying either I need more rest to win for the battle for another day, or I need to get up because tomorrow ain't promised. It really is about the mindset you choose to have and navigating your truth and be okay whatever decision that you make. And that is the most critical part to all of this. When you choose to lead, you understand that that means others are looking to follow. Once you begin leading, at some point you should be creating other leaders. And so when we begin to wrestle with our own truths— and this is why I see so many changeover with CEOs, because you can have a certain level of skill set to get to the position, but if you never had a values-based leadership position based off wrestling with your own personal struggles and truth and handle the Achilles heel of your life, that will be the very detonator that will implode and blow up your whole spot when you get the ultimate CEO role. And I think that acknowledgement is so critical because if you knew better, you would do better by having an advisory board around you at the personal and professional level to be able to cover you just like an entourage for Beyoncé or anyone else. So a leader is never one truly lonely because they know to have a set of apostles, just like Jesus, around them who have their own set of superpowers that when they activate it together, they help to move a system in the direction it needs to go and understand blind spots are opportunities for others, just like a jigsaw puzzle, to put in their superpower. To move it, make it whole.

Wow, that is powerful, man. I could be talking to you for hours and hours, but I know we have about, what, 20 minutes left. Let me ask you this. You have spoken about faith, ancestry, and inner work. So let's talk a little bit about resilience, faith, and inner leadership. One question we have for you is, how do you stay grounded when the work is heavy, and it is, and the outcomes are slow?

Great question. Um, this is why I love history. I, I'm a bibliophile. I love reading the history of others who have been, um, in more tenuous roles, uh, or more difficult positions. And when you read their lives and what they've had to overcome. So let's just take this holiday season. I Netflixed and chilled and coded my data for my dissertation, and I was looking at the life of Harriet. I looked at Aretha, I looked at Rustin, and I looked at Lisa Lisa. And every piece which I will be writing a Substack article about, I was looking at the golden thread of belonging through all their lives and how in a recent story that because of the childhood trauma that she experienced and being able to use her voice, that was her passport to get out. But at the same time, because she never wrestled with those childhood traumas, it haunted her and came back. And it was through going back to the church was a full circle moment of being able to see her father as a witness to her overcoming her challenges. Lisa Lisa, she was motivated to get out of her community to make sure she could take care of her mom, get the house, get the car. In the process, she had cancer. And then she had to realize in the end, like, whose life were you truly living for? Rusty belong so bad as a member of the LGBT community. He saw his struggle in tied up with the civil rights movement, but for others they used to weaponize his own identity against him, only to have a friend, Dr. MLK, to tell him on national TV that you too belong and your superpowers have helped us move the struggle. He in that moment realized he was blooming where he belonged. And we can go lastly to Harriet Tubman at a time when No way did they believe that a woman could find her way to freedom by herself, not accompanied with a man, and to know that she was being led by the ultimate friend, which was her God, her Lord in Christ, to guide her at a time to be able to not only free herself but come back and free others. And so her, on that freedom trail, she found blooming where she belonged in the promised land to bring others to bloom with her. So you can learn more, go to my Substack, tamburay.substack.com, to read these new stories that I'll be unveiling over this next few weeks.

That is really, really, really powerful. So let's talk a little bit about women's service and servant leadership. You've said if we heal the women we heal an entire generation. Uh, what should leaders understand about service that they often miss?

Well, uh, one book I would highly recommend is Who Cooked the Last Supper by Rosalind Miles. Um, it is a women's history book, and it will be very insightful, uh, to readers. Um, Washington Post gave her, uh, 4 stars for How it relates to this work and this acknowledgement, because I did not wake up in Oklahoma knowing this at all, but being in government, working on data and being a pragmatic like my grandma, who's about to be 99 in Oklahoma City this year, I realized that the data was the truth, that when we saw that when you have, um, women, uh, like myself who are birthing children, uh, we begin not only encoding them with our, uh, knowledge, uh, and wisdom out the womb, but actually internally on a genetic level when we talk about epigenetics. And so to know that the truth, the traumas, the testimonies, the triumphs that you, uh, endure is now being passed on into your child. And so that also is happening on the father's side. I will give credit where it's due as well. And that is why, uh, men have to handle and tackle their own, um, challenges as well, because those two X and Y chromosomes come together and encode that child and make them produce a purpose that only their parents could probably give them, which is understanding that why am I here on this earth? Why was I assigned these parents? What are they here to teach me? What are the lessons learned in order for me to continue on this journey to my final destination? But for the women, I will say that because we tend to be the purchase of food in our home, we're the first food for our babies, uh, in utero, as much as the first food, breast milk. We become critical when we pass down not only nutrition, but nutrition education. I would just take my own children, knowing that Time magazine said our gen— their generation would die before us. I took that to heart. And I said, well, what can I do with what I have? I can take them to community gardens. I can give them toys that look like you know, fruits and vegetables, I can start writing children's books and reading stories that will help to balance whatever is out there in the world. I can begin to understand the importance of showing them in the kitchen how to make healthy smoothies or making a balanced breakfast, making songs and singing with them, making toys to celebrate their culture. And also bringing them into the world of Wanda that I created because they were the motivation for me to even make Wanda because I began to realize that if they're saying that parents, we're the, the most responsible ones for our children, I said, well, what can I do? But I quickly realized it truly does, like the African proverb say, take a village to raise a child. And so when we have grandparents, when we have teachers who are giving junk food as rewards, they, uh, counter any positives that we're giving to our children. And so ultimately, it's not just parental responsibility, it is communal responsibility. It is Ubuntu ideology that we have to acknowledge, that I am because we are. And when we don't understand that, that is how the parental stress um, endures, um, and you are now David and Goliath fighting a system that you, uh, cannot fight alone. And so Wanda became a movement, just like being on the front line, uh, of a war, but a food fight, battling for our children's brains and guts of who will win ultimately. Um, and I would say that in the end, uh, it is a battle that I'm winning. Um, it has been difficult, but it has been making that decision every day with intention of what kind of world am I trying to leave my children, and knowing that it takes more than just my mouthpiece. Because once they hit teen years, you know, it's all about, well, what are my peers saying? And I think studying human development is critical. I had to in college. I was forced to. I'm happy I did because it helped me to understand at every stage of life we all go through seasons and changes, and we have to acknowledge now that they're no longer prepubertal, which I call that, uh, like the Old and New Testament, before Christ and after, uh, that after it's, it's like good luck, hope you planted the seeds in that first decade because it's a wrap. Yes. Uh, in trying to really change anything.

So yes.

Wow, so insightful, man. My goodness, we only have about 10 minutes left. Let me see how we're gonna land this plane. I think I have to, to ask you this, uh, when you think about legacy— not titles, not awards, which you have plenty, but, uh, people—

what do you hope others will carry forward because of your leadership long after you're When I think about legacy, I think about what am I living, what am I leading, and what am I leaving behind. And I've been intentional in writing that as a trilogy of understanding, um, the work of Joseph Campbell, the cultural mythologist, um, the hero with a thousand faces. And overlaying that with my life of acknowledging that when you look at that work of we start with our roots. So what was the foundation of our family and tradition and rituals? And so that is our values. How do I give voice to those values? What is the vision that I have set? What am I willing to be victorious of? And what, um, and by doing all of that, what is the vision I see for others? But it's a combination, um, and because I've been thinking about a new leadership framework through Wanda, which we would begin, um, launching LeadHer, uh, back last April at the Black Women in Food Summit with the leadership panel of understanding that the leadership that we have within the food system has been failing us. And so imagine if Black women were leading the food system, how differently would that look with the lens of anchored in culture? So not replicating the system we already have, but reimagining what is the educational system to grow a food leader that needs to be reformed and an overhaul. And then now how do we build a system that is integrated and not in silo. And how do you come to that leadership where you are willing to be resilient and overcome the jabs and punches that may happen? Because you understand the power of building a village of advisory members as much as building a movement by sharing a narrative that even the 5-year-old can understand. And so that is why the work of Wanda is about planting the seed in order for a new, new crop of food sheroes to grow. Um, and when we do that, we begin to realize that there is a whole white space of opportunity, uh, to create. And that's why I implore, uh, to think like an entrepreneur, think like a policymaker, think like a media maker, no matter what trade is, because those three things will all be transferable skills, cross-cutting features that you will need in order to lead.

Wow, this is powerful, powerful, powerful. Okay, let me ask you this one more question. For leaders who are listening right now, they want to turn their own pain into purpose the way you did, but they don't know where to start. What is the first step you would offer them?

Well, I'm glad you asked because I'm launching a new, um, venture outside of Wanda that is reimagining Native Soul Kitchen Studios, where we're helping folks to spice up their brand that's seasoned and sizzled and understanding that we have brands that are bland and we want to make them brand. And the only way that we can do that is being able to understand the power of your story. How do you position it? How do you anchor your identity within it? And how do you ensure that it has context? And that you extrapolate the expertise to demonstrate what people need. And the only way that can happen is acknowledging that you have the sauce and we are the kitchen that's going to help you cook the sauce so you don't get cooked. So if they can follow me on LinkedIn, message me when we launch the program later this month. But we want to help people be prepared to think differently. Because one thing that I learned from having been in government and been around colleagues in government, they all got comfortable. That's what they will tell you. And one thing that I know to be true from having many different roles is that the only comfortable you need to have is what Luvvie Ajayi-Jones talked about, which is being uncomfortable with Being comfortable with the uncomfortable. And yes, there is going to be a lot of discomfort this year, and the only discomfort people will have are those who are not prepared. Um, just like building of the Noah's Ark, if you didn't prepare your provisions and gather, but you saw that the storm in the distant horizon, I mean, what do we do? And I think the best way to prepare is thinking like an entrepreneur. Knowing how to master your own story. How do you build the team members around you to navigate through it? Because you can't do it alone. And acknowledge that there are those who have the expertise to cut through the noise, cut through the time to get you where you need. But nothing in life is free. Everything got a fee. So that's just what capitalism is. And lastly, it's I want to invite people to become a host of our Sisterhood Supper Challenge. Part of acknowledging those who've been trailblazers like Georgia Gilmore, who was feeding the civil rights movement at a time in the '60s that Dr. King and others were on the Montgomery Bus Boycott. They needed to have funding, and she leveraged her superpower of food to be able to help fund the movement. And in honor of her birthday, which is February 5th, we're doing something different for the 10th anniversary of Wanda, which is democratizing our sisterhood supper. And so that means we want people to come sign up, help not only gather women in their homes, restaurants, wherever, but be able to learn what it means to be a host and organize and heal communities one meal at a time while raising support for our Wanda Scholars Program that we are funding women to go to college to study ag and nutrition here from the heartland to the homeland. And we will have our first set of graduates out of Nigeria, uh, this semester. We've already been graduating women from Oklahoma State University, and we want to grow a fund here in DC and beyond. So these Sisterhood Suppers have been a vehicle of not only creating self-care but also social change by supporting our Food Freedom Fund program and supporting our Wanda scholars. So they can learn more at iamwanda.org/sisterhoodsupper.

So yt.com, I believe it's under, uh, what we do.

Iamwanda.org.

Yeah, Sisterhood Supper. And that should take you to a Typeform right here and they can just sign up. Wow, that is so powerful. Again, really, really impressed by the great work you are doing. Now we are quickly running out of time. I can't believe this, but is there a question I should have asked you that I didn't get to ask?

I think we did it all. I would say I just want to encourage people to be anchored in their own truth, to know that tomorrow is not promised, but today is. And so how are we going to make the most of what today brings? And to know that you have the power to shape what that future looks like by the seeds that you plant today. And hopefully you plant them within you. Join our Substack, um, and be a belonging builder, um, and know that the soil conditions can change in order for the seed to bloom better. Um, and so that, that means changing the job, changing your wife, changing your husband, changing your, uh, your, your, your home environment. Do whatever you need in order for you to bloom where you belong.

Wow, that is, that is, uh, powerful. And I see the bookshelf behind you, and you said in the green room you had at least 6 other across your, your home. So just really quickly, this book, High on the Hog, and I believe it was also made into a Netflix documentary. Why should people read that one?

Well, I'm glad you asked. So the piece of High on the Hog is, is powerful by Dr. Jessica Harris for the simple fact that it helps tell the truth of American food by centering the people who created it, Black cooks, farmers, ancestors who were brilliant in what they had to offer, but was also being erased. And so connecting food to power, memory, migration, and survival is not just about recipes. This is about understanding our history that's different and understanding our indigenous knowledge is why our ancestors were brought here in the first place. Like, my heritage goes back to the Fulanis in northern Nigeria, and to understand that they're pastoralist They cattle herded. This is me in one of the IDP camps serving, doing our very first Sisterhood Supper in the IDP camps in Kano and Abuja. But understanding that— and that's where I'll be back later this year. But it's to understand that this history is within our DNA. It's us choosing to open up that door and walk in because they've been waiting for us all along.

Powerful. And you mentioned this one, Food Power Politics.

Yes, that would be another book that is a perfect time to read for the new year. Food Power Politics. It was a James Beard Foundation nominee of Bobby Smith. Great book to read if you love power, politics, and food. Sop it up like biscuits.

Who Cooked the Last Supper?

Yes, another great book I would read if you're loving women's history. I thought it was a book just about food, but it's serving up breakfast, lunch, and dinner of matriarchy and patriarchy.

And then the last one, Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces.

Yes, another great book I would recommend read. It is, it is that anchor. It is the cross-cutting theme of any leader. If you look at the Anishinaabe tribe, the little boy and the 7 grandfathers, you can see the video at the American Indian Museum here in Washington, D.C. But that video, along with Joseph's work, is about understanding the common thread that you'll see in all of our, all of our journeys, that you leave from a disastrous neighborhood, but the goal is to give you the skills in order for you to come back and help heal your community. And if we understood that for our life, it would make sense to understand why you go through struggle. There is purpose in the pain and you are birthing your, your path to the promised land in front of you. If you only can truly understand that, just like the work of Harriet.

Wow. That, that is just, just powerful. Okay. The very last question I have for you, if you could go back and give a piece of advice to yourself, 17-year-old self standing at this edge of this incredible career you've had affecting government, academia, policies, and really you are impacting the globe in my opinion. What would you say to 17-year-old Tembra?

Wow. At that time, I think my other grandma was dying from complications of diabetes and is one of the reasons why I wrote Little Wanda Finds a Cure for Nana is to understand that I am little Wanda. In the making. And to know that just like little Wanda, that I will go on journeys to reconnect and reclaim and restore my roots, my food, my health. If— and to know that this pain that I'm feeling about my grandma's passing will turn into my purpose.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. We ran out of time, but We probably should have you back. I know you're writing an entire series. This one is just the first in a series. We definitely want to learn more about your work. And thank you so much for being on the Leadership Success podcast show today. Probably my very, very last question is, what is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today?

Hope.

Hope. Yes. And I am so grateful. Thank you so much, Tamara Rae Stevenson, everyone. Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Happy New Year.

Wow. Happy New Year, everyone. And, uh, that was, uh, Tamara Rae Stevenson. This is just incredible, the work she's doing. So again, I want to encourage, uh, everyone to, uh, follow her on, uh, LinkedIn. And, uh, by when you go there, you're gonna be able to get to her TikTok. Uh, uh, I believe she has Instagram as well, or iamwandadotorg, and especially her Substack. Tembrahwe.substack.com. All right, in about, uh, 20 minutes I will have the pleasure of speaking to Colonel, uh, Ice Gibson. He's, uh, also a Doctor of Business Administration from Harvard and a professor at Harvard Business School. We're going to be talking about From Cockpit to Harvard Professor: Our Leaders Are Forged. And right after him, uh, we're gonna be speaking to Anna Wheeler. She's a former Black crew chief, and we're gonna be talking about, uh, From Black Hawk to Boardroom: Leadership Under Pressure. And she's also a cybersecurity strategist. And on Sunday, I will be speaking to another cybersecurity leader, Daya Ramesh. We're gonna be talking about cybersecurity being existential. And then the following Wednesday, I will be speaking to Commander Erika Dobbs. I look so forward to speak with her. Like me, we joined the Navy as seaman recruits. That's the lowest rank in the military. And she retired as a commander and I am a commander today, senior officers in the most powerful navy in the world. So we're gonna be talking about from seaman recruits to Navy commander, and now she's turned into a tech CEO. And then on the same day, I will be speaking with Lisa Fan. We've been trying to schedule this for a while. She's just a mentoring architect. She has two bestselling books about mentorship, The Mentor's Guide, and also Bridging Differences for Better Mentoring. And she also has a TEDx talk about mentoring. I really look forward to that. And later this afternoon, I'm going to be speaking. Today is January 8th, so we're going to be studying Proverbs chapter 8. It's not a religious broadcast at all. It's just about wisdom. So ancient wisdom for mentoring from the book of Proverbs.

Right.

We're going to be focusing on ancient wisdom and leadership lesson from the book of Proverbs. So today we're going to be studying Proverbs chapter 8, and then tomorrow 9, and then we're going to be done by the end of the month with Proverbs chapter 31. All right, that's all I have planned for you. Thanks again for watching. And again, please follow Tembra Rae Stevenson. I know she's going to have a huge impact in our world. Thanks again for watching. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach Bisi. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.