S5:E102🎙️ 🔥 LIVE with Coach Ronald Sosa

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple, to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard. Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

I already know that you want to lead with impact. And if you're neurodivergent, I know that you want to lead without burning yourself out or trying to hold everything together. Your dream of walking into work and feeling regulated, focused, and trusted to lead your way and not the way you were told a good leader should look. But now you're drained and you're drained from masking. You're drained from trying to match energy that you don't actually have and performing confidence when you're just trying to survive the noise, the pressure, and the expectations. And maybe you doubt yourself. Maybe you're wondering if you are the problem, if leadership just isn't built for someone like you. What's Left Unattended is the playbook that changes that story. It helps you lead from alignment and not exhaustion. This book gives you practical systems, reflective tools, and permission to design leadership around your energy, not your input. And the truth is, the weight you've been carrying isn't who you are. It's what's been left unattended. So, preorder your copy today and start leading from the version of yourself you've been waiting to meet.

All right, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast. I am your host, Coach Bizzy. And today, Here we have a very special guest who's waiting in the green room right now. But before I introduce him, let's go ahead and practice what is our custom here, which what we called a moment of gratitude. This is where we take just a moment every time we meet to be grateful. So you should know the drill by now. If you would maybe close your eyes and put yourself in your happy place and take a deep breath, calm down your nervous system, and think about what are you grateful for in this moment right now. And I think today I am really grateful for all of the first responders, right? People in the military, police officers, law enforcement, FBI, Secret Service, nurses, Doctors are really people, in my opinion, who save life. And I think we can never be too grateful for the work they do, right? Our fellow citizens who are willing to put their lives on the line for their neighbor. And there is such nobility, I believe, in service. So that's what I am grateful for right now. So if you would let us know, where are you joining us from? What city? What state? If in the US, and if it's, uh, outside of the US, which country, since we've gone global these days. And also, uh, what you are grateful for, let us know in the comment. And most importantly, if you do have a question for our guest, uh, Coach Ron, go ahead and, uh, type your question in the comment, and we will be answering you live. All right, let me see, see if I can properly introduce our guest today. Uh, today I have a great honor and privilege of speaking to Coach Ron Sosa, a neuro-inclusive leadership coach Speaker, author, and executive director of the Uncharted Veterinary Conference. Uh, with over 20 years of leadership experience, Ron is on a mission to help leaders and organization reduce burnout, improve communication, retain top talent, build human-centered, neuro-inclusive workplaces. As an, uh, ADHD leader, uh, Ron brings a powerful and authentic perspective to leadership. He's challenging outdated systems and helping leaders design environments where people can thrive without masking who they are. He's the author of Rewriting the Rules: What's Left Unattended, and he's the host of the Left Unattended podcast. One of the things you're gonna be learning today is the difference between performing leadership versus leading with alignment. So ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership Success podcast, Coach Ron Sosa. Hey, good morning, Coach. How are you doing today, Ron?

I'm doing fantastic. Thanks so much for that introduction.

How are you?

Great, great. It's really a great honor and privilege to be speaking to you today. I think what you have to share is really, really helpful, especially for those who work in high-impact environments like in the Navy and high-tech cybersecurity. We definitely need to hear your message more and more. What is one thing you are grateful for today?

Uh, one thing I am grateful for is, uh, I think the, the colleagues that I have surrounded myself who have, you know, may not be on this journey with me, but they stand with me and they stand for the message that I have. And so I'm really, really grateful for those colleagues. Um, one of those who stands out to me the most is Suzanne Thomas, so I'm going to give her a shout out because she's been a phenomenal, uh, support in my world. So I'm very grateful for that.

That is really amazing. Thank you so much. And you said Suzanne, so I assume she's a female. One thing though, as a father of two girls, I am kind of, I don't know which adjective I should use. I'm not upset, but I guess confused or dismayed that the world in general is still pretty much made for male and not female. And I just don't, understand that if a woman has the same background, the same leadership experience and credential education as a man, why do they get paid less? Why do they have less opportunity? Especially in America, supposed to be the home of the brave and the land of the free. And I just don't understand that. But, um, anyway, part of the reason why I do this too is I really want to put the spotlight on women and people of color and people who've been generally, uh, marginalized in this society. But I just feel like in 2026, it shouldn't even be a question anymore.

But anyway, I appreciate you so much.

I do appreciate you spotlighting your colleague. Is there maybe something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

Yeah, I think that the first thing that comes to my mind, what they don't know is on paper, I think it looks fantastic, right? My career has been this wonderful roller coaster and has gotten me to elevated levels in leadership and executive leadership now. But one thing they don't know is the struggle it took to get there, all of the pitfalls it took, all of the things I did wrong and had to learn from, all the ways that I, I, you know, we'll get to later about performed leadership versus was authentically a leader, in my opinion. And so that's what I want to bring out to the world, right? Like those —need to be normalized. So that's one thing that they won't notice right away.

Thank you so much for sharing that. We are going to get into this later, but one question I'd like to ask is, how has failure shaped your life? Because this coin, which was given to me by one of my best keepers in the Navy, one side says success, the other side says failure. Really two sides of the same coin. And you are right, in this society we really glorify success and all of that. I guess there's really nothing wrong with it, but we do forget that failure is part of success too. And people usually don't want to talk about that. But in my opinion, you won't be successful if you didn't go through those failures. So it's definitely something I would like to focus on today because it makes you more relatable. And also you are able to help a lot more people in my opinion with your failure stories than you do with your success stories. But I think this is going to be a very powerful episode. I guess to get started, I wanted to ask you, Coach Ron, you've had a powerful journey from veterinary medicine to now executive leadership to neuro-inclusive leadership coaching. What moment changed how you see leadership?

Yeah, I'm going to tie both of those things together because it was a moment of failure in my leadership. That really tied it together for me, which was, I remember I was a young practice manager. So newer into leadership, a few years in, and, you know, learning all the things that I could learn. And in veterinary medicine, and I think it's like this in probably many other professions where you kind of get promoted into leadership, even though you probably shouldn't have been, or you were really good at process. So it's like, hey, why don't you do this? Right? And so I didn't get trained to be a leader. I just, knew what I thought to be right by those who came before me and what I have seen. And so I remember this very clear day, uh, working in the practice, I had an emotional moment. I was on the phone on a private conversation with, um, my father's healthcare team. He had, uh, was in the hospital and it's something I vehemently disagree with. Uh, that's a whole nother topic about human healthcare, but, um, it's, it's, I remember coming back into the practice And like many of us who are leaders, you get bombarded by questions, right? Whenever you leave a space and come back, you're the path of least resistance. And so you get all the questions and I got bombarded and I'll never forget, I snapped at my team and I never ever wanted to be that person who yells at my team, right? It was like the antithesis of everything I wanted to be. And looking backwards now, what I realized, it was a lot of emotional overwhelm, a lot of emotional dysregulation that was going on.. And I, I just, I didn't know how to remove myself from that overwhelm. And I snapped at the team. And later through that day, like they wouldn't look at me. Like if I walked into a room, people would scatter. It was just this most awful feeling in the world. But what it really, really taught me was, uh, why was I having this moment, right? Like I am a good leader, even though I'm new and even though I'm learning, I knew I was a good person. I knew I was a good leader. Why was this still happening to me who I thought was good, right? And so at the same time, I was having very similar relationship problems with snapping at my spouse. And so I like to jokingly say I went into anger management because that's what my partner wanted me to do. And I came out with my first ADHD diagnosis. And so it really kind of opened my world to realize, like, I was in a state of emotional dysregulation and I didn't define the container for me to walk away from that before allowing it to get the best of me. And so that impact really stays with me. And I remember that, that acute failure for probably the rest of my career. And it makes me look at when teams and my, my people out there have a moment of out-of-character or unwanted behavior, like what's underneath that is where I want to get curious because I know there are good people who just have a bad moment.

So during that experience, what was going through your mind?

Oh, it was, it was, uh, how do I get out of the moment, right? Feeling overwhelmed. Uh, it was like just— I saw white, right? I didn't know what was going on. I just needed to get out of that moment. And so yelling was in my way getting out of that moment, right? And I was allowed to retreat to my office and then kind of re-regulate myself. And after I came out of that moment, it was so much shame placed on me, like, why am I like this? Why am I such a bad person, right? And there's so much about tying it to who I was as a person and that identity of being a bad leader or being a bad person or, you know, why can't I just be good like the person I saw before me? There was so much shame in that. And so that's kind of what I was going through. And I lived with that shame for quite a while.

Thank you for also sharing your feeling about the aftermath of the moment. But while you were in that moment, What did that feel like?

Like, it's, you know, like the eye of the storm for a hurricane, right? Like when I was in that moment of yelling at my team, it was like everything just stopped and quieted and the time stood still and I didn't know what was happening. It's like my body and my brain took over and my consciousness went somewhere else. I had no idea what was going on until a fraction of a millisecond later. And the aftermath of that yelling happened and I realized, oh my gosh, what did I do? And I needed to get away.

Wow. And what were you telling yourself when that happened?

Yeah, it was a lot of that self-shame. I'm a bad person. I'm a bad leader. I'm not cut out for this. Maybe I should quit. Maybe I need to find a new job. How do I face these people again? Yeah. What kind of conversations am I going to have? What am I going to tell my business partner? It was a lot going on. And I didn't know how to handle it in the moment.

Did that experience shake your confidence as a leader then?

100% shook my confidence. I really didn't think I was going to stay in leadership after that, because if, like, if I am the leader I always had that I didn't want to have, and I embodied that person, why would I continue in it, man?

So I guess you kind of question whether you were the right person to lead. Do you feel like— because I, you know, again, thank you so much for sharing this. The reason why I want to stay here just for a second time, I'm only trying to see many people who are listening to the show, they could really be helped by this. And again, this is the work you do, right? Unmask yourself. I think in society, we really, especially for men, in my experience, we try to present ourselves the best way possible. We look like we are very successful on the outside, but on the inside, We are dying, we are struggling and we don't want to ask for help. One way I truly relate to this in the military, I believe there is a greater number of people who have PTSD but who haven't been diagnosed yet. I feel like especially for men, we don't want to raise the hand and say, I am emotionally injured and I need help. Now, if you get a physical injury, there is no shame, there is no taboo. Yeah, of course. Patch me up and I'm going to go back to the fight. But if it's emotional, then we feel like we are less than. And I think it's really hurting a lot of people. That's why I start the show with a moment of gratitude because about 21, 22 service members and veterans who commit suicide, not every week, not every month, every single day in this country. And I believe it's really an epidemic. And I feel like we really need to take this mask off and ask for help when we need it. So Thanks again for sharing that. Were there maybe some lies you were believing about yourself during that time? And again, I'm really grateful you went ahead and you did get your diagnostic and I'm sure things got a lot better after that. But prior to that moment, was there lies you were telling yourself?

Prior to that moment, there was a lot of confidence issues. You get put into a position and you always wonder, am I good enough to be doing this? Do I know enough to be doing this? That imposter syndrome kicks in. Of how could I be doing this? Like, I know I was good at this process, but this job is not what this process was. And so why am I here? Uh, how did I— how did I get into being a business partner with someone, right? It was just— it boggled my mind that I was even asked. And then how do I say no to that without disappointing someone? There was just so much going on internal— the internal world for people like me in general I think, and maybe this is more broadly stroke, and I think this happens in intersectionalities of other marginalized identities, but the internal world is not always safe, right? Because the external world has told us it's not safe for so long. So our own internal thoughts are no longer safe.

Is there anything that you were afraid people would see if they really knew what you were going through during that time? 100%.

I thought that I wouldn't be looked up to as a leader. I wouldn't, I wouldn't have qualifications to be where I am. I think I would be questioned. I was so worried about people not following me or what they would think. I would have turnover. What would the new people think? Why— like, why other people left? There was just so much that would spiral in my head, and that was all the time. That was every day, right? Like, if I'm found out, what's going to happen?

So what then, uh, changed for you? What was the, uh, turning point?

I think the turning point for me was getting that diagnosis and then really reading it. And I mean, and this was back probably 15 years ago, so we didn't have a lot of information out there as we do today. And even today it's not great because there's a lot of misinformation. But just being able to read and find articles and find associations and find groups of people who are also going through the same thing and realizing that you're not alone in this struggle. Mm-hmm. Was deeply validating. And then also it gave me a stepping stone. It was like, okay, if this is what I go through and this is— I don't want to say normal, but this is the experience that people do go through— then there's got to be a way to get back to quote unquote normal, right? There's got to be a way. And so that was kind of my marching orders, so to speak, of like, okay, now I know this is a thing, I know other people experience, so now there's got to be a roadmap to normal.

Yes. Wow, that is really powerful. Something you've said when I did research for the show, you say a lot is, no, you weren't broken. And you are telling your audience, yes, you are not broken. And you also just said now, you are also not alone. Because I think for a lot of people, they feel like they are so lonely, there is nobody to talk to, and they feel like there is no hope for them. Again, I am referencing to my military brothers and sisters who end up committing suicide. And it is such a big, big, big lie. And again, part of what I am trying to do here with the show is to just bring a little bit of encouragement and spotlight and hope and say, no, you are not alone. There are a lot of other people, including myself. I may be a commander of the most powerful navy in the world, but just a year and a half ago, after my last deployment, I was diagnosed with PTSD. And the truth is, I had actually I found out through psychotherapy. For me, it actually started back in 2009. I remember 2009 because Michael Jackson had just passed away. He was on the news all over the place. So I was deployed on the USS Essex. That was the first time I saw a dead sailor, and that's actually where my PTSD started. But I really didn't know that until 2024. So it's been a long time dealing with it. But I guess one question I have for you, sir, is when did you realize, okay, first, I am not broken, two, I am not alone, and I am not staying here, I am going to rise. I feel like that's really something that needs to happen to each and everyone if they have any hope of getting to what you call quote unquote normal.

Yeah. I think that for me, I had a past of, maybe trauma's too, too strong of a word. I've never really gotten a diagnosis of PTSD or anything. But I've gone through some pretty adverse childhood events myself, with mother abandonment, whatnot. And I remember in these moments, I try to remember how much I have gone through. And as much as those moments have been awful in my life, and I have been at the lowest points in my life, they have always been great stepping stones towards turning around and having personal growth. And I really cling on to that idea. And I go back to that childhood event and realize, like, if that hadn't happened, these other events wouldn't have happened and I wouldn't be where I am today. And I really try to remind myself when I'm going through a down moment that it's still just a moment and there's something waiting for me on the other side to grow from. Yes. And I really try to use that post-traumatic growth and lean into that, uh, harder, knowing that it's there. That is really, really powerful.

I guess it's really a mindset, isn't it? I think so.

It's like when I feel the moment of being low, there's two options. I could stay in that and I can wallow in that and I can let that consume me. And sometimes I stay there. Sometimes I think that it is an appropriate time to stay in that for a period of time. And then there's something in me that just clicks and says, I stay here too long, it's going to go bad. Yes, right. Like, when those thoughts start to creep in, I need to start moving. I need to get up and, and, and get out of this. And I've proven to myself that I've done that before. And I try to remember that moment of how I pulled myself out of it before so that I can try and find what is the structure I did that before, so I can use that as a ladder getting out of it this time.

I, I really like what you said, sir, because it's true. So sometimes absolutely appropriate and normal to stay there, but just don't stay there forever. And it reminds me of the story, I guess it's from the Bible in 1 Samuel 17, everybody knows about the story of David and Goliath, but one thing David was so confident is he said, okay, I remember I fought the bear, I remember I fought the lion and I won, therefore this giant Philistine, okay, this is my time. So that kind of built his confidence. I think it is so important to remember some of the small victories we had, and that kind of help us face whatever challenges we are facing now. That's quite powerful, isn't it?

Yeah, it's easy for us to face a challenge and always look forward, right? Like, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing? And I think we do that in moments in our life too, right? Like these pivotal milestones. But I've realized how important it is to look backwards and realize the triumphs that we— and hold those for a moment, right? And really hold. And sometimes they're small, sometimes they're large, But we've got to be able to hold on to those moments because otherwise we're just looking for the next problem to solve and that's exhausting and that is defeating.

Yes. Because one thing I've always tried to figure out since I was a teenager, I really never quite understood. Sometimes you have people from the same family and same parents, same background, they went to the same school and everything, but one person would be quite resilient and the other people when they face just the littlest challenges, they just fall apart and they kind of die. And I'm like, what really makes the difference? In your experience, especially with all of the experiences you've had and all of the coaching you have done, what do you think makes somebody more resilient than somebody else that just kind of fall apart in face of adversity? Where does that come from?

I think that there— I've read a book recently from, oh, Scott Barry Kaufman, and I think it was called Rise Above. I'm still actually in the middle of the book, but he talks about how how some of it is genetic and some of it is, is environmental. And I've always tried to ask myself what in it, in me, caused me to have resilience, right? Because I think about how adversity and continued adversity really does stretch your resiliency in a lot of ways, despite going through that negativity. So I think that going through adversity and, and being able to come out of it, no matter how awful it was, does stretch your resilience band. It doesn't mean that your resilience band won't snap, but I do think that it does— it, one, it proves that you can go through it, and then it stretches it a little bit. Um, the problem is, is when it stretches so much that all you go through is that adversity after adversity after adversity is, is when that resilience band will snap. And I think that's where the burnout and the, the ideations come from. Wow.

That is quite powerful what you just said. So, from what we were talking earlier, what did you start doing differently after that? After you made the decision, okay, I'm not going to stay here, I am going to Rise. What became different for you? Yeah.

So, if we go back to the moment where I yelled at my team and I was going down what I call the self-discovery rabbit hole of my ADHD diagnosis and realizing Okay, this is, you know, this is the thing that happened. How do I make sure this doesn't happen? Right? So finding some regulation techniques for me when I was going through an emotionally dysregulated moment, um, reading all I could, not just on ADHD, but like better emotional intelligence. And that's when I started like reading leadership books and going, how did other people handle these situations? Um, how— like credible leaders, like, you know, that's when I started reading Simon Sinek. It's one of the reasons I think many of us follow Brené Brown is like, you want that leadership, but you also want that heart center inside that leadership as well, right? I don't ever want to lose that softness of who I am. Yes.

Wow, that is very powerful. And the book you mentioned earlier, Rise Above, by Scott Barry Kaufman, PhD. Overcome a victim mindset, empower yourself, and realize your full potential. Wow, that is, that is quite a, a journey for most people, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. And I, I will say that, you know, I have probably generational trauma between my grandmother who put my mother up for adoption for her traumatic reasons, and my mom being in, you know, the foster care system and a runaway and, you know, getting— having a child at 15 years old. And so there's a lot of like generational trauma in there. And so it really had me not only just look at myself, but give me better respect and understanding for the family members who are still stuck in their own trauma and they're still stuck in some old narratives, have not leaned into that post-traumatic growth that I have. Because here's the downside of having post-traumatic growth, I think, that, uh, I don't hear many people talk about, which is when you've done it and you've done it well— because I think I've done it pretty well several times in my life— I look at other people and say, why can't you do this, right? Like, there's a way out. And you all— for me, I can only speak for me— is that I look at people and I sometimes— the judgment brain goes and like Why can't you get out of it? There's steps you can do. Yeah, I don't want to be judgy. I never let those thoughts leave my mouth. But it does give me moments of pause, you know, like, there is a way out. Why can't everyone else get out of it? So I think that's— but that book really gave me some language and some understanding to realize there are people that are just stuck.

Can you mention the name of the book again, please? The Rise Above. Oh, so that one. Okay. By John Kaufman. That is powerful because you also mentioned Simon Sinek. One of his most popular books is Start with Why. One of my favorites. And then you mentioned Dr. Brené Brown as well. Dare to Lead is probably one of the most popular New York Times bestselling books. What did you get out of reading those?

Yeah, for me, Start with Why is a very neurodivergent thing to say, right? So somebody who's is ADHD and autistic, I want to know the why on everything, right? So I got labeled a difficult team member because I wanted to know the why before we did anything, right? And if a leader wasn't willing to give me the why, then I had a little bit of a rebellious streak as a— before I became in leadership. So when I went into leadership, that book really called to me is Start with Why. It was like, I feel validated that this is— I've always wanted this for my leaders and I never got it. So it was validation that I will always give my team the why if I can. And if I don't, I want them to challenge me and ask me what the why is.

That's powerful. And what about the book by Brené Brown, Dare to Lead?

Yeah, Brené Brown talks about a lot about the man in the arena, right? And I don't remember the exact quote, but she talks about how—

actually, so I had a guest a couple of days ago. She kept calling it the woman in the arena. I'm like, what? What? What? Yeah. But I'm like, yeah, she definitely owned it. But I love that. Anyway, yes.

Yeah, she talks about the— let's call it the person in the arena. And how I think there's somewhere where she talks about how I have to put on that suit of armor. Right. And for me, it was very parallel for as a marginalized identity, the amount of armor that we put on as an ADHD neurodivergent person to not hit the negative feedback, right? That's the masking part that I think about, parallel to masking, whereas I don't want the negative feedback and I'm going to chase the positive validation. So I went into leadership chasing positive validation because I was good in process. And I think that's exactly where that imposter syndrome comes from. It was like I was chasing validation, I went into leadership, and now what, right? Like, there's nothing to chase. Um, and so that was like, why am I here? Should I be here anyway? So that, that, that parallel that she talks about putting on the armor is to me very much indicative of the masking. And I know a lot of other marginalized communities, they call it other things like code switching, camouflaging, contortion. There's a lot of words for very similar behaviors in different communities. But to me, it's very indicative or parallel to what she talks about, armoring up. And I'm like, let's take off the armor, like, allow us to be human beings across the table from a human being.

That is so, so powerful. Now, I feel like in 2026, there's still a little bit of stigma if you are diagnosed with ADHD. ADHD or PTSD or whatever it might be. Like, there was a time, I know, about 15, 20 years ago— I joined the Navy 21 years ago— it was not in your best interest to let your command know that you were suffering with some type of, uh, emotional injury, because people who did see psychiatrists, psychologists, and so forth, they usually ended up losing their security clearance. And once you lose your clearance, you are no good to the service anymore. You're— it's pretty much career-ending. That is no longer the case. Thank God for that. And also the VA has a lot more resources and help. So it is becoming more normalized, but still as a society, I feel like we are not where we need to be. Some people still feel very much discriminated against when it's not like they are abnormal or less than. And even worse, sometimes people used to be called, I don't want to use that word, but retarded or or things like that. Basically just pure ignorance. Yeah. Oppressive language. Yeah. What do you think we can do to kind of help society see us for who we really are as human beings, but not stigmatize those who have been diagnosed any longer?

I love this question, and it is the exact reason that I started the podcast that I started. Right. So I am the host of The Left Intended Podcast. And that— the intention of that podcast is to bring in people who don't have a voice in my industry, in the veterinary industry, or and beyond, who are ADHD, autistic, dyslexic, dyspraxic, like whatever the diagnosis is or self-diagnosis is under that umbrella, and allow them to tell their stories of triumph and struggles, right? And normalize those stories, right? Because what you'll see is there's a common thread and there's a common theme among us is that we do struggle and we put on that mask and we make the job look really good. And you have no idea the emotional toll, the cognitive load that goes into just doing the job that is not built for our brains and mind. Right. And if we can normalize those stories and I still get negative comments on, on, on the podcast, it's like I— there was one, it was like, I wish ADHD was— no, it was— I missed the days that ADHD wasn't an excuse to be lazy.

Really?

The exact narrative that I'm trying to get rid of. Like, I want those negative comments because it tells me— not that I want them, but when I get them, it tells me we're not done telling the stories. We're not done educating people on the invisible frictions that we go through day in and day out.

This is really shocking. Again, we are in the age of artificial intelligence, 2026. Because 100 years ago there would be families that would take their kids and commit them to some type of mental institution and do things that are really, really horrible. But today, that doesn't make any sense. Wow. Again, one of the reasons why I love having this discussion, when you reached out, I think it was by email, I was like, yeah, I definitely need to talk to you because for the The people I care the most about, my brothers and sisters in the military, any branch of the US military, and then also in high impact, wherever stakes are high, technology, Silicon Valley and cybersecurity, I feel like a lot of us really deal with a lot of this mental anguish, anxiety, depression, just because of what we do and the tempo is so high and we really need to hear that and also learn how to deal with members on our team who might be going through something like that. So for you, you started going on that journey first. I think it takes a lot of courage just to say, okay, I need the diagnostic, I need to find out exactly what is going on with me. And then you started reading, researching on your road to self-development and your healing journey. How did that experience kind of change the way you lead your people now? Oh, it has been a 180.

If you asked how I led people 20 years ago versus how I lead today, it would be vastly different. I am definitely a person who leads from my heart, um, and I believe if I've hired someone, right, and I've truly done a good job interviewing, matching my, uh, the business values to the person who they are, there's no reason for me to ever let them go unless there's something atrocious, right? Behavior should never be a reason to let them go because behavior to me is always a symptom that something is going on with the system and it's supporting them.

So how do you think you show up differently now because of your experience?

Yeah, so I used to, I used to be a leader who was very much bought into the idea that if you have a high-producing team member, but they're a poor cultural fit, that they should be let go fast and hard, right? Like, poor culture fit, let them go. And I've really gone back on that statement quite a bit, because I don't think that's the case. When I have somebody who is has a poor cultural fit, we'll say, I wanna look at what's going on, what's causing that. Mm-hmm. Because there's always something causing the behavior, right? People don't just come into work and say, I'm gonna create chaos today. I don't know anyone who has, unless you've been pushed to that point, that says, I wanna go into my job and create chaos and yell at people and be, you know, a toxic person. I wanna dispel the myth that a toxic team member does not exist. And I think that there are reasons for behavior that happen in our workplaces that we need to look at. People need to feel heard. They need to feel seen. They need to feel validated for their own experience, even when it does not match our own. Yes, they need to be nurtured. And I think that if we can do those things and we can lead with curiosity on like, here's a behavior happening in my business and I don't like it, then I can say, what is that need that's not met? And can I, as their leader, either meet that need or help them find where— a place where they can get that need met.

Wow, that is so powerful. So how do you recognize kind of that same struggle in your team, your colleague, or the people you coach today?

Yeah, so I'll give you an example. When I was still in veterinary practice, I had a receptionist who I was very, very thankful that she disclosed her diagnosis with me. And she would get, you know, she would very much emotionally dysregulate whenever she would have a phone call or an interaction with a client that didn't go well, right? Like there was a disagreement, they didn't like something, she took it very much to heart and it would emotionally dysregulate. And I'm glad I had that psychological safety with her, that she felt comfortable and safe enough to tell me without repercussion. And what we did is set up some boundaries because she created a lot of rift with the team, right? Yes. She would blow up on the team, she would yell at the team, she would, she would, um, you know, get mad and ignore people. And it was like these behaviors were coming out. And so finally we sat down several times, and I think the thing that shifted for me was like, okay, I understand that you are going to have emotionally dysregulating moments, right? That's the human part. You're going to have these How can we come up with a co-created plan together so when these moments happen, the team and the clients are not impacted? Mm. What can I do to help keep you and the team safe in those moments? Right. And for her, it was very much like, let me come in your office. And we had coloring books for the kids and it wound up becoming a, like a regulation moment. I had a punching bag in my office, so you were allowed to punch the punching bag. Yes. Whatever you need it, like, let them co-create what they need to reregulate. And then if it's for 5 minutes and then they can get back out and reregulate without impacting the team or the client, like, to me that's a win. And any other leader— and I talk to people all the time— any other leader, I think they would have terminated this employee and called them a toxic employee. I don't think so. I really don't think people are naturally toxic.

That is really powerful. Actually, you said psychological safety. I don't know if Dr. Amy Edmondson. I consider her a mentor from Harvard University, but she's written a lot of books about psychological safety. Can you define that for us? I think that is so key.

I'm probably going to butcher her actual definition because I, I take her definition and, and I separate it a little bit. But basically the gist of it, I think it started from human medical where there was a lot of errors and mistakes happening, um, in teams that never spoke up about the mistake. Right. But the— when she polled other teams that had less, less adverse outcomes, what she found, the only difference was people were allowed to speak up when they saw something wrong. And so that psychological safety in my mind has always been the safety to speak up about struggle, a problem, a mistake without repercussion. Right. To me, I think that there's probably a little bit more separation from a neurodivergent side, which which says I can come to you, my leader, and say, hey, I'm really struggling with time blindness, right? I have ADHD. I'm really struggling with time blindness, which means I have a real hard time getting to work at 8 a.m. and sometimes I'm late and a lot of times I'm late. And so when I come in late the next morning, am I going to be written up and have a conversation with, or am I going to be met with the same compassion and understanding in which I disclosed my struggles with, right? So to me, I think that she had meant to include all of that, but I think that stretches the limits of psychological safety. And I've heard many people call it psychological autonomy. If you create a safe environment where people can speak up, then hopefully we can create an environment where they can actually act and be who they are in their struggles. That is so, so powerful.

Can you say that one more time, please?

Wow. Yeah. So psychological safety to me says I can speak up to my leader and say, here's what I'm struggling with. Yes. And be met with compassion and understanding. And when I show up the next day, which is psychological autonomy, with those struggles and what it looks like, I am still met with the same understanding and compassion that when I told you about the struggle.

So powerful. Talking about compassion and empathy. Did your journey make you more empathic or more demanding as a leader, or both?

I think it has made me more demanding to other leaders and more empathetic on the team.

It's powerful. So what— oh, sorry, you're good.

I was gonna say, I have a lot— the bar is raised for me for other leaders, which I recognize is not always fair. Because they don't have the background and knowledge maybe that I do at this point in this realm. But I do, I have a higher bar for other leaders now.

Well, the good thing I know, you've written at least, no, this one book, Rewriting the Rules: A Leadership Model for a Neuro-Inclusive, Human-Centered Workplace. I think that's very, very key. But also the workbook we mentioned in the intro, What's Left Unattended, right? The playbook for neurodivergent leaders who are done performing and ready to lead from alignment. So I think definitely raising awareness across the workplace, across all industries, that's definitely key. I mean, especially in 2026, that's really what really, I don't know, amazes me at times. I feel like we are not in 1950 anymore. People should definitely know better. I guess the follow-on question I have for you Why do you think so many leaders kind of hide that part of themselves if they are struggling internally?

Yeah, I think that there's still a lot of shame tied to disclosure, even with my— with family. Right. I think that there's shame in saying that I have this diagnosis or I struggle with these things. I think that there's still a lot of shame. And I'll be honest with you, and I hate to say this, still in 2026, I see people who finally disclose or think they feel safe enough to disclose a diagnosis of autism or ADHD or both or whatever it may be. And then within a very short period of time, they're still fired and terminated. I talked to one veterinarian about a year ago, and she has been at this veterinary practice for 30 years, no issue, a leader of the practice, medical director. And she disclosed that she's I was having these communication struggles and I went and got my own diagnosis and come back and said, hey, here's where I have been struggling and I've never let you know where I'm struggling and here's the diagnosis and here's where I could really use some accommodations. And within 6 weeks she was terminated. That is so sad for different reasons, right? But to me, that's very indicative and it's a very common story that I still see to this day where we, we, we see it all around, right? Like TikTok and social media. We hear about more neurodiversity and ADHD and autism and a lot of the invisible struggles, cognitive invisible struggles, but I still don't think that our workplaces are as safe as we think they are.

That needs to change. Yeah. Wow. What are some of the things you think we should do as a society to make this better? Because that's just not acceptable, not in 2026. Yeah.

So that's where the Rewriting the Bull— the Rewriting the Rules book came in. Yes. So I wanted us to really like, where are we today in our workplaces? And really start to reflect on the system. So RISE is the framework or the leadership model, and it says reflect on the systems, right? Whether that be your workflow, whether that be how you construct your building, whether that be your policies and procedures, your handbook, whatever your— however that system is in your workplace. And now that we know better, right? Because we understand that humans evolve, we have better language, we have better understanding about cognition and other identities. We should be doing better and we should be looking to create sustainability for all identities in our, in our, in our workplace. And then lastly, empowering the next generation to continue evolving with the human being, because that's, that's, that's what should happen. So it's not like a, here's the 10 steps that you're going to do in your practice. It is very reflective and it's very like, you're going to try this and you're going to spiral around the framework a little bit and you're going to try something and you might fail and try something. And implement it and check, check it against sustainability. And maybe it works for 10 years and you have to redo it again because our understanding of people evolves.

Yeah, especially in the age of artificial intelligence, I feel like the human touch, the human-centeredness, is probably the most critical thing these days, isn't it? Yeah. Wow, man. So, uh, what would you say to a leader who might be listening to us right now who is struggling silently, what would you tell them?

If you are a leader and you're struggling silently, I would say that there's nothing wrong with you, right? I would encourage you to start writing things down, like where do you struggle? I am very much— I love having what I think of like a needs assessment. Are there different times of the day that you struggle? Are there areas of the business in which you struggle? Is it— and then think about the sensory needs too, right? I think about like, what kind of lighting do we have? If you've got flickering fluorescent lighting, we know it causes migraines. We also know that it can interfere with neurodivergent brains, and we can see the flickering. And so that really— that like, actually what I found for me was fluorescent lighting can also trigger panic attacks. That I've never— I've only ever had one, but the only other time was when I was standing under fluorescent lighting for a longer period of time. And I started to have another one in a similar condition. I moved away and it immediately gave me relief. But I think that there's sensory considerations. What are the noises that are going on around you in the workplace? Like, what are the smells? What are— what are you touching in the workplace? If you have a high-stimulated environment, like I have worked in veterinary medicine, there's so many different smells and things that you touch Yes. And the lighting. And you can— there's a lot of things you can't control, but there are some things that you can control. For me, with the lighting, if I have a fluorescent light bulb in my office, then I am going to put a table lamp on my desk, right, and drown out a little bit of fluorescent lighting and get myself an LED bulb. Or maybe I just replace it with an LED bulb. There's very minor, inexpensive fixes that we can do. Normalizing headsets when we're sitting at our desk, right? Not only is it great for me to sit at my desk in a crowded space for me to focus, but it gives other people the visual cue that I'm not available to talk to right now, right? It opens accessibility up if we normalize some of these needs. So yes, the advice would be like, figure out where you struggle, figure out what your sensory environment is like, and can you minimize the sensory input coming in? And, uh, and I really think looking at our Being very clear about what our strengths and weaknesses are and why we like them and don't like them. It will help you advocate for what it is you want and need. Wow.

Really developing in self-awareness, that is so critical, isn't it? What do you think is the role of emotional intelligence when it comes to leading in this area?

I think we need to build emotional intelligence, right, into leadership training. Into, probably into human training. I'd love to see emotional intelligence like brought into the school system. We need to prepare people and understand any different people, understanding our own wants, needs, desires in the workplace.

I'm going to steal that, prepare people for peopling. I never heard that. First time I'm going to give you credit, the second time I'm going to take all of the credit. I love that. Say that one more time, please. If you guys are listening, you don't get anything from this, I think this is so important. We are really, as leaders, we are in the people business, period. There is nothing more critical, more important than that. Yeah, can you say that one more time, please, Coach Ron? Yeah, it's powerful.

I'm trying to remember what I said now. I truly believe that we need to prepare you know, children in the school systems for emotional intelligence, right? We need to prepare people for peopling because in our workplaces, we all deal with people.

Yes, yes. People are your greatest asset and they are also the ones that cause you the most trouble. But really, as a leader, that is your job. So, as a leader, when you are vulnerable, which I think You should be at times because your people need to relate to you. You're not invincible. It's just a great privilege for you to be leading them. But how do you balance vulnerability with maintaining authority as a leader, you think?

I don't think about it. This is where the authentic part of my leadership will come in. I don't believe that my vulnerability is a detractor for my leadership. And I don't even think about it because I don't want it to be part of an equation.

Powerful, powerful. So, the moment you shared at the beginning of the show, how did that shape the man you are today, not just as a leader, but just as a human being, you think?

Yeah. So, you talk about the moment in the clinic when I yelled. It has definitely shaped who I am and how I lead, and it makes me look at human beings as a human being, right? When, when somebody does something I don't care for, it allows me to get curious because I know I was a good person. I know I had a, a terrible moment that I never want to repeat again, and I'm sure there are other people in the world that have moments and maybe even repeated moments. Yes, they regret, that they feel shame for, and I think that if I can come across them, I can show them a different way.

Because you also mentioned not only it happened at work at one time, but you also mentioned with your spouse. So throughout your transformation, what did your family kind of see in you during that time?

Yeah, I would say my now husband probably got the brunt of most of my frustrations because he was my safest person. Like, I would come home and he was— I could let the mask off. I can be who I was authentically. And he would always— he would be so upset a lot of times. He's like, how come you're so nice with other people and you're a completely different person at work, and you come home and you're this person with me? And it was like, it took a long time for him to hear me say, it's because I feel safe with you, right? Wow. And, and, and it sucks in a lot of ways because I shouldn't necessarily abuse him in that way. And I don't think of it as abuse. I was just kind of like letting things out. And it took a long time for him to understand, like, I am— it's not directed at him, I'm unloading on him. And so we had to learn how to, how to navigate that communication for, for quite a while. So he didn't take it personally, I didn't feel like I was attacking him, but then still was able to be authentically myself when I came home.

Now, as your definition throughout that transformation, as your definition definition of success changed?

Oh, that's a really good question. Has my definition of success changed? Yeah, I think in some ways, from a leadership standpoint, I think that's where I talk about raising the bar and how I look at leaders. Like, if we can't look at the people that we are leading as human beings, I think that is, that is very much changed. I need to look at people like people and not just part of a system.

Right? That is really powerful because I must tell you, my mentor, my primary mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, I really love his definition of success. Because when I was younger, I used to think success, you know, I'm going to get a house, get married, have children, and blah, blah, blah. Career and so forth. But once you attain all of those things, you find that pretty quickly you are not fulfilled at all. Yeah, it's exciting when you sign off your first house, you get your first car or whatever, but how many houses can you live in? How many boats are you going to drive? It's like eventually it just doesn't satisfy any longer. So to me, it was about 5, 6 years ago where I'm like, okay, I have achieved my American dream, everything I wanted to do. I started at the very bottom, like in the military, 21 years years ago as an E-1. Now I am an O-5, senior officer, the most powerful Navy in the world. Yay, exciting! But then now what, right? I started in the industry as a technician assistant, and now I'm the chief information security officer for Santa Clara University. Yay, I'm a C-level executive! But now what, right? So it's, it's like, no, I think there's got to be more. So that's where it's starting to shift now for me, myself and I, to now I really want to think about the next generation, I guess, going from success to, I guess, succession, legacy, and significance, I guess. But the very best definition of success I really love is when Dr. John C. Maxwell said, "Success is when the people closest to you respect you the most." So talking about your spouse, your children, those who really, really, really know you when the mask is off. Because you can put the mask when you go to work, church, or whatever, but when you're at home 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, eventually your people are going to know exactly who you are. And when those people get to know you and they still respect you, that is success.

Yeah, and I'll tell you, I think that as I've been more authentically myself, I think my family has respected me even more, even when it comes with things they don't necessarily agree with or behaviors that they're like, why would you do that? I think I got a lot more respect because I've always been and consistently now be myself.

That is really, uh, powerful. And I don't know if you have any children or if you're going to adopt any, but if you had a child, what would you hope they learn from that chapter of your life.

Yeah, so we, we did adopt two boys back in 2018. Yeah, uh, and they're wonderful.

Thank you, thank you for making their life so much better. I am so big on adoption because there are some kids out there who are really, really suffering, and, uh, anybody listening right now, you could immediately change their life and give them a future. So I agree, bottom of my heart, thank you.

Yeah, yeah, um, I, I'm sorry, I'm trying to remember your question.

Yeah, so for your two sons, that's very, very specific. What would you like for them to learn from that chapter in your life? I'm thinking about legacy. Yeah, I, I—

this has actually come up for me very close, um, to my heart recently because we are a very inclusive household, right? Like, my husband's from Venezuela, um, born from Venezuela. Like, so we're, we're an interracial couple. My children are Mexican American heritage. I've got— there's just, there's so much different identities and marginalized identities. You know, we're obviously a gay couple. I'm hard of hearing, I wear hearing aids. Like, there's, you know, the ADHD, the autism, my kids are both diagnosed with ADHD. And so I think there's a lot of marginalized identities across our family in many different ways. And I want them to just love people, right? I want them to have that same— I look at a person as a human being, and I want them to have that. And recently we had gone through, and I think this is very much a probably age-appropriate exploration, but my, my son called another child at school a derogatory term, and it had nothing to do with their identity, but it was just like— it broke my heart probably worse than anything because of who we are and the lessons that we've taught him. And so, yeah, I'd say if they get nothing out of anything I've taught them, it's just to treat a person like a human being. Wow.

Dignity and respect. I must say, you know, you are the United Nations. You are America, right? E pluribus unum, which is our national motto. Out of many, one. And I really love that diversity. I think it really makes our country great regardless of what people think or whatever is trending in society right now. The facts are the facts. The most diverse teams are highly performing. They make a lot more money and they have much greater outcome than homogeneous teams. That's just a fact. Wow. That's really touching my heart. I can't believe we just talked— pretty much it was one question that we developed. We've already run out of time, but I do want to, if you have maybe, can I get 10 more minutes or do you have? Yeah, please. I do want to talk about your book. That's one thing I definitely, definitely wanted to cover today. So sorry for spending so much time on just that one experience. No, it's okay. It was very, very important. And for the people who are listening right now, I really like to get real because when I was growing up, I always felt like, I don't know if I am a leader because people put it on a pedestal. It's so high, high there and I cannot touch it. It's kind of sacred. Only with very few people. It's for Martin Luther King, it's for President Obama, it's for so-and-so. Not for me. But the truth is the more I learn and go, anybody can become a leader. These are skills you can definitely learn. And I think all of these experiences we go through as human being, I think the more we talk about them, the more people are aware, I am hoping, the better our society is going to be. We're not going to have those people who are going to say, hey, you are using your ADHD diagnosis as an excuse to be lazy and things hurtful. Like that, I'm hoping would absolutely stop because it's just not acceptable, especially in 2026. So I won't even go through the neuro-inclusive leadership core framework. I had a question on that, but let me just talk about the book. Rewriting the World: Leadership Models for Neuro-Inclusive, Human-Centered Workplace. So what inspired you to write the book? Why did this book have to be written? I—

part of the reason I wrote this book is because recognizing how the systems in our businesses and our workplaces are not set up for a lot of our minds, right? Like, to just to hear the stories of what people go through and having to suppress who we are as a human being in order to appear successful, and watching people burn out and watching dear friends and colleagues, you know, pass by suicide because in the veterinary profession it's pretty high numbers as well. Probably not nowhere near to the, to the military, but it's definitely one of the professions with the highest number of suicides. So it's in there and I'm just watching people burn out and cycle burnout and burnout and burnout and they're like, I'll change jobs or I'll change this or like the next thing is always supposed to fix the burnout and it never fixes is the burnout. Yes. And what I found was it's suppression of identity in a lot of ways. It contributes— it's definitely a contributing factor. There's white papers on this about how masking in autism and ADHD actually cause burnout and lead to greater suicide numbers. And so it was part of, at least in the veterinary profession, that we were not talking about at all. And I think a lot of workplaces are not talking about that. And it's a little bit more maybe in the tech world because they recognize some of the creativity and out-of-box thinking. But in most industries, we're not talking about how the workplaces are set up to suppress identity. Yes.

Yeah, I think this is quite universal across industries and maybe some industry more, more than others. But, but yeah, that's why I really feel like the work you are doing is so important, even from the title, Rewriting the Rules. So what rules of leadership needed to be be written and why are they failing today? All of them. You said, okay.

I think in, and this is where it's gonna get a little dependent on your workplace, right? If I could give you a magic bullet and say, here's the 10 things that should be changed, I would absolutely love to give that to you. I think there's some universal things that we can do, like, you know, staff meetings, giving an agenda ahead of time, giving time to process after a staff meeting so that they can still contribute for people who have delayed processing. Like, there's, there's things like that you can do, more visual cues that rely less on memory. The whole point is, for, for a neurodivergent person, is decreasing cognitive load. And one of the examples I talk about is, um, I still work in practice about twice a week as a veterinary assistant, and I, I went in to help with a surgical— a dog ate something it wasn't supposed to, and they were going to have to remove it surgically. And I'm there, I'm like, I will help. And I get to this place, the surgical prep area, and it's like, all right, where are all the things? And everything is a closed drawer, so I've got to like— I'm not there often, so I've got to like sort through all the drawers. I have to figure out where everything is. And the amount of cognitive load that it takes for me to sort through all the drawers, right? Remember where things are. The fact that they're not even within arm's reach, right? Things are over there, there's things in that room, there's things over here. It's like, for prepping a patient right here, everything should be right here. Reducing cognitive load to me is the main factor of being able to help people with bad working memory, with ADHD, that help people who need structure with autism, that help people who have object permanence, right? Where I don't remember where things are unless they're in front of my face, right? Labeling your drawer I think there's a lot of visual cues that we can do. Yeah, I mean, I think there's so much to do, but the whole point is to really look at our systems that we've created, the workflows, how we build buildings, and reflect on who gets left out. Who's been terminated at your, at your workplace over the last 5 years? What's the pattern in that? Who gets promoted in your workplace? Why have all those last 10 people been promoted in your workplace? Like, what's the commonality there? Is there something where we are unintentionally causing harm or discrimination? And I say unintentionally, very importantly, because we don't believe that we're doing it intentionally. I think that there's behaviors that we talked about before that are considered toxic that we then overlook people, right? Or they're terminated for. And if we go back and recognize that maybe emotional dysregulation was at place, I wouldn't have terminated that person. I definitely I have looked back on my career and realized I probably shouldn't have terminated a few people if I had just gotten curious enough. And so if we reflect on that, then we can implement systems to better help not suppress identity, to build that psychological safety and that psychological autonomy, to decrease cognitive load, allow people to express themselves as a human being. I think it opens up the ability to not burn our out and to not have such high suicide rates.

That is so powerful. I mean, showing empathy. And really, this is all about leadership, caring, and being there for your people. That is quite powerful. When you were talking, have you seen— you remind me of a show, The Good Doctor. Yeah. What do you think of that show?

The funny thing is— all right, so I'll tell you that show in just a moment. But if you look back at all of our medical shows, right? Like, uh, Dr. House. Yeah, The Pit. Uh, there's so many medical shows out there. The funny thing is there's a common theme throughout them. There are a lot of autistic-coded behaviors and language that are in those. Now, they're not always outrightly called autistic, and I think The Good Doctor, uh, very much highlights that. But the thing is, and I think what, what the media doesn't show, is not everybody looks like this stoic there's not a look to autism. Right. And I think that was a big shattering moment when I got my diagnosis, like, but I don't look autistic. I don't think I sound autistic. I don't think I'm not the kid who's throwing a fit and hitting people. It was very much— it broke the mold in my head. And when TV shows only show one version of what it can look like, I think it can be damaging.

Yes, yes, I definitely get your point. But for me, at least, I felt like the goodness in it was to show people, yes, you may have autism depending on which varying degree, but you can be a doctor, even a surgeon, which is just like, wow, no, it is, it is possible. And I really do believe that, you know, representation does matter. It matters a lot, especially when you feel like you are in a world that wasn't created for people like you and you see someone who is rising all the way to the top and doing what that we are called to be. It's very— and part of it is inspirational, I think, and motivating. But yeah, I do see your point. You have a valid point there. But what does a human-centered workplace actually look like in practice based on your book? What should we be aspiring for?

We should be inspiring for, in my opinion, to recognize that there are There are workflows, there are the way we construct our buildings, there are things that we— and systems that we put in place that have unintentionally hurt people. And that doesn't make you a bad person for implementing them. It's just to be able to create awareness that it does hurt people, right? Even if it's a small minority amount of people, it still hurts some people in the business or in the workplace. And the amount of money, if we just go from a pure business standpoint, the amount of money that we spend on training and turnover, it's expensive, right? And so if we can implement things that help our people and retain great talent, then I think it's a win-win for everyone.

Wow. So you're telling me that as a leader, I don't have to wait for a regulation or law or something. I can just care for my people and provide accommodation when necessary. Necessary. Yeah.

Well, and, and not wait for someone to disclose that they have ADHD or they have an invisible disability, because the shame that comes with having to— with one, admit that you're having a problem, admit that you have a diagnosis, and then wait and depend on human resources to say that accommodation doesn't work for us, or it does work. Like, you— it's a judgment. Now the business has to say that works for us or doesn't, right? Can we create accessibility in our businesses where I'm going to proactively create like the, the most universal design, uh, thing that we have that I can recall is like the curb cut, right? It was meant for people with wheelchairs to have mobility through the streets, but it also helps moms with strollers. Yeah, dads with strollers. It also helps people who are, you know, using it as a bike lane when there's no bike lane. It helps many other people, right? The idea is that when we include neuro-inclusive policies, procedures, workflows, and building arrangements, we actually create wider accessibility for many more people in ways that we hadn't intended.

Also, it helps with a lot of safety as well. If you are even traveling, you have luggage or whatever. Yeah, it keeps everybody safe and it's wonderful. So that's why I think the next question Makes a lot of sense. Then how should leaders design systems instead of trying to fix the people? I think that's a huge difference in the workplace if we could do that.

Yeah, I think there needs to be a lot of awareness, right? If you recognize that a system is fundamentally, like, and pattern-wise, like, suppressed a group of people, then let's figure out, let's bring them in, right? Like, who's getting hurt by this? How are they getting hurt by this? And, and whether that be moral injury, whatever that may be, let's figure out what are some ways. And maybe we need to do some research. Maybe we need to incorporate committees. Like, we need to include the people who are also getting hurt, right?

Yes, yes.

Um, so you can't do it alone, and then you're going to implement something that may not work, and that's okay because the framework allows you to just go back and reflect what didn't work on it, what did work on it, and reimplement. And we're looking for sustainability.

So for the executive and senior officer listening to the show right now, like a CEO or a commander or whatever, if they read your book, what is one mindset shift you want them to walk away with?

What is one mindset shift I want them to walk away with?

These are executives in charge and they could make a difference for their people who might be dealing with a diagnostic. Yeah.

Number one, I don't want them to know— what I don't want them to walk away with is any shame for the way they have created systems. And if we can get them to walk away with one thing, is just that we have human beings in our businesses and human beings evolve. And when was the last time your workplace evolved their system, right? Yes. And if your workplace has not been evolved with the human beings in mind, this is the right place to be at.

Mm. So the last question I have about, uh, your first book is how do you then balance psychological safety with accountability and performance?

Yeah, I get this question quite often. So what I don't want to do is make it sound like the behaviors in our workplaces are just allowed to be and have an excuse for, right? We can understand where behaviors come from and create safety like I did with my receptionist, where it's like, let's co-create this so that the impact never happens again. And then the pattern of hurt reparations doesn't happen. However, as the neurodivergent person who had a behavior that impacted other people, it is also our responsibility to create repair. So when I yelled at my team, it was absolutely 100% my responsibility to create repair with each one and each one of them individually and as a whole, as a team.

That is really, really powerful. I really wanted to get through your playbook. I think this is probably even more critical in my opinion because you really get into it. We've definitely gone over time, almost 15 minutes over. So what I would like for you to consider is to come back, we can have an hour and really get deep into this one because I think this could literally change the life of the people who are listening because you get quite practical. And on your website also, you don't You don't give it all away, but you give enough. Where is my— okay, here we go. sin-apt.me, because you talk about all of the phases that it covers. I think it could literally be life-changing. So not out of content, but definitely out of time. I would like for you again to consider coming back for another hour, please, please, Coach Ron. Absolutely. We need to hear what you have to say. And I won't be spending too much time talking about your trauma and your experience and all of that, but we're gonna get into this because I think it can help a lot of people. So with the time that we have left, I want to ask you— thanks again for being here, you went over time— but what can we do to add value back to you, sir?

Yeah, I would say the, the main things for me is if you really enjoy this, uh, this information and you want to learn more, follow me on LinkedIn. That's where I'm most active, uh, giving neuro-inclusive leadership, uh, tidbits. Um, the playbook is a great place if you are a neurodivergent leader who is struggling, that is a great place to help find yourself. And then if you want to hear the stories and you don't understand, like, listen to me on the podcast, listen to the guests I bring on and listen to the commonality and the stories of our triumphs and our, our failures and all in between so that you can understand what you may not understand. Well, thank you.

Thank you so much for your time today. The last question I'm going to ask you today because I like to end on a high note. We do talk about some pretty heavy stuff here sometimes. And actually, if I may, just one quick second. Yeah, please. I want to engage the audience. I never had a live audience until maybe about 3 years ago. I started this 5 years ago. It was for me, myself and I. Nobody was listening. Nobody was watching. But I have people who watch live on YouTube and LinkedIn. So I want to honor them if I can just ask you one question from the audience. Daniel says, How do we rewrite the rules so no fail standard don't automatically mean burnout for DHD and other neurodivergent folks?

Yeah, I'm going to— I would imagine this is probably a place where there is something critical on the line where you can't— there's the margin for safety is very low. And so sometimes that, like in veterinary medicine, this is— this was something that we had to deal with as well. If somebody is, is at a point where they are not able to do the job cognitively, we pull them out from, from a place where they could cause harm. And then I work with what is, what is the systems that we are working with that's increasing their cognitive load, that is causing the behaviors and the things that are not working in, in the business. And, and so like when I think about that surgery, that I was talking about before and prepping a patient, I would put everything I need. And this sounds like an efficiency factor and it's really not. To me, it's a cognitive load thing. I would put everything I need to prep a patient in one area so that I don't need to run around the building and remember where things are. I can open up these 5 drawers and that's exactly where everything is located. So decreasing cognitive load, understanding what— what are their identities that are being suppressed in the business, or is there psychological safety not present? Or, and maybe it's talking and building more trust because they had had an unsafe environment before. And even though your environment is safe, they don't believe it yet.

Wow. That's powerful. And then you end up helping everybody else too. 100%. It's quite inclusive. Wow. That is, that is, that is very, very powerful. So the last question I'm going to ask you before we are done again, just to end on a positive note, what is one thing you are optimistic about in 2026?

I am really optimistic about just the minor impact that I've already seen by the people who read the book. Like, it just— the, the comments and the what I have received, and it's not like, hey, here's the 10 things, but it's like, you really got me to think differently. That is what I'm optimistic at, and on a larger scale.

Well, thank you so much, Coach Ron. It's really been a great honor and privilege privilege to talk to you today and thank you for staying a little bit longer. But next time when you come back, we're going to try to keep it to 1 hour because I do respect your time. But I feel like the message you have really could literally change the world. And I'm just very, very fortunate to allow you to be on this platform and to be speaking to my tribe. So I really do appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Bye. Bye. All right, everybody, this is one for the book. And again, I hope Coach Ron comes back and we're going to spend our time and deep dive into his playbook, What's Left Unattended: The Playbook for Neurodivergent Leaders Who Are Done Performing and Ready to Lead from Alignment. And I think this will help every leader out there or anybody who aspires to lead. Let's make the world a better place. So again, follow him on LinkedIn, and it's linkedin.com/ronaldsosa and Those are all of his credentials. And then you can find his website, scene-appt.me. Now you can purchase the book everywhere books are sold, Barnes Noble, Amazon, everywhere they are sold. But the playbook right now, the workbook, you can find it anywhere but on this website for the time being, scene-appt.me. So I would highly recommend that you do. If you are a leader, I think you need to read it. All right. That's all I have for today. I won't have any more interviews today. Tomorrow we are going to come back and we are going to continue our study on the Book of Proverbs, right? We're talking about ancient wisdom and leadership lesson from the Book of Proverbs. This is not a religious study in any way, shape, or form, but it is about how a book written more than 2,000 years ago can still be relevant in 2026. Those leadership principles are universal and I believe eternal. So, I hope you can join us tomorrow for that. This is Coach Bizy. Thanks again for watching the show. And I hope to see you tomorrow. Bye for now.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach Bizy. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, Be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, And keep leading with excellence.