S5:E108🎙️ LIVE with Coach Maxine M. Maloney, Ed.S., MPA, CCMP

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation I'm proud to say is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend, Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach B.

What if I told you that most leadership failures are not caused by bad decisions, but by good decisions made with incomplete truth? Today, we're diving into that reality with a leader who doesn't just talk about leadership—she disrupts it, redefines it, and rebuilds it from the inside out. I'm honored to introduce someone who brings over 30 years of leadership experience across federal, state, and local government. A systems strategist, executive advisor, and one of the most thought-provoking voices in leadership today, Maxine Maloney. Maxine is known as a leadership provocateur, and trust me, she lives up to that title. She operates at the intersection of authority, accountability, and execution, helping leaders reduce decision friction in complex systems. And more importantly, helping leaders see the truth they've been missing. Because as she says, "If you believe you're getting the truth, you're already behind." For my naval leaders, for my cybersecurity professionals, for those of you stepping into leadership roles, this conversation is going to challenge how you think about decision-making under pressure, signal versus noise, and what it really means to lead with clarity in complex environments. And here's what I'll tell you: when Maxine walks into a room, something shifts. Not because she's loud, not because she performs leadership, but because she brings truth, clarity, and presence in a way that forces you to confront what you've been avoiding. Today, we're going deep into her concept of institutional velocity, why organizations stall even after decisions are made, and the hidden cost of leading while being unavailable to yourself. So I need you locked in for this one. Take notes, challenge your assumptions, and most importantly, ask yourself, Am I leading from clarity or from performance? Let's get into it. Please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, Maxine M.

All right. Thank you so much, Coach Bizzy AI. That was my AI twin introducing Maxine. Well, before I bring her to you, as is our custom here, we have what we call a moment of gratitude. This is where we take just a moment every time we meet to be grateful. So if you would, on this fine morning, maybe close your eyes and put yourself in your happy place and think about one thing that you are grateful for in this moment. Right now, I think I am really grateful for America. America is not a perfect country, and God knows we didn't start right. With slavery and all of that, but it's a country that always aspired to do the right thing. You know, our founding document, especially the Declaration of Independence, "All men are created equal." That includes Black people, that includes women, that includes gay, that includes straight, that includes everyone. And I think that is so powerful, right? Our motto, "E pluribus unum," "Out of many, one." We are one melting pot and everybody is included. It's not something we've always done, but we aspire to be that country, and that's the country I was willing to die for if I had to when I joined the US Navy 21 years ago. So let us know in the comments, uh, what are you grateful for today? And let us also know where are you guys joining us from, what city, what state, and if outside of the US, which country. And if you have a question for my guest today, please type it in the comment and Coach Maxine will be answering you live. All right, let me see if I can properly introduce Coach Maxine to the Leadership Success podcast audience. So she's a leadership provocateur because she challenges conventional leadership thinking, confronts uncomfortable truth, and forces leaders to examine the gaps between perception and reality. She's a system strategist and a truth-centered executive advisor. Today, we're gonna be talking about institutional velocity, why decisions stall inside organizations. So Coach Maxine M. Maloney is a bold and thought-provoking leadership voice, system strategist, executive advisor who helps leaders reduce decision friction inside complex organizations. She brings more than 30 years of experience across federal, state, and local government, along with a powerful ability to challenge leaders to see what is really happening beneath the surface of strategy, execution, and culture. Coach Maxime is the founder of Analogique Léchy, and he's known for helping leaders confront one of the most overlooked realities in modern leadership: decisions do not stall because people are incapable, but because truth is often delayed, filtered, or softened inside systems. So, her work on institutional velocity explores the speed and clarity with decision move through organization and why so many leaders believe progress is happening when the system has actually stalled. So in this live conversation, we'll unpack leadership at the intersection of truth, authority, clarity, and execution. So ladies and gentlemen, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Coach Maxime M. Maloney. All right. Good morning, Coach Melanie.

Can you hear me? I can hear you.

Good morning. Fantastic. Good morning to you. So first question I have to ask, what are you grateful for this morning?

Oh, thank you for asking that question. And I really like the way you start this podcast. And what I'm grateful for this morning is this opportunity. The opportunity to share my thoughts and to actually hear from others. So that's what I'm grateful for this morning, in addition to being able to open my eyes and experience another day.

That is so beautiful. Uh, as long as I am alive, right, there is hope for me. And, uh, that's powerful. Is, is there something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you, Martin? Ah, well, I'll start with the visual, the visual, right?

When people see me, they don't realize that I am Afro-Latina. Really? I was born in Panama. I am bilingual Spanish-English, um, and folks immediately see me as a woman of color. Wow. I am a dynamic, great, multifaceted woman that it has what I call this cultural mores, right? I'm Hispanic, I'm Afro-Latina, I'm American.

Wow, that is, that is really, really powerful. I love it. It seems like when you walk into a room, right, many people say that something shifts in the atmosphere. What, what do you believe they are actually experiencing? Just by your presence?

Hmm, well, I don't walk into a room to dominate it. I walk into a room to pay attention to what's actually happening underneath, right? So I think when I walk in a room, they may see that— they may feel an energy, an energy of curiosity, um, but also an energy of calmness. Right? In many organizations, people spend a lot of energy with managing perceptions. For me, it's not about perceptions. It's about alignment, um, and it's about engaging people. Because underneath that, this is where decisions get stalled and trust gets really thin, and teams may be already compensating quietly for unresolved problems. So the energy when I come into the room is really a quiet energy, that of curiosity, as I pay close attention to what's happening in the room.

That is really powerful. I think that's really emotional intelligence, isn't it? Thank you. Wow. Because, uh, I live in Silicon Valley and I know our IQ is pretty high off the chart, but I feel like we have so much work to do to increase our emotional intelligence and just awareness. Now, you have described yourself as a leadership provocateur. My AI twin mentioned it, I did too during the intro. What truth are you most committed to challenging these days?

It's a really great question. And what I'm most committed to challenging is the idea that leadership is performance, right? We normalize leadership that looks impressive while externally systems are quietly deteriorating, right? A leader can be highly visible but still very ineffective. I've seen organizations with constant meetings, polished presentations, strong messaging, where execution was painfully slow or not at all. So I challenge leaders to stop confusing activity with movement because leadership is not about how inspirational you sound during stable conditions. Leadership is about whether truth can move through your system clearly enough for people to act effectively under pressure. Because we're all about the idealistic situations, but truly leadership is present under pressure.

Wow, that is quite powerful. At what moment in your career you think, uh, you were kind of forced to rethink leadership not as performance but as alignment, as you just described it?

Hmm, I notice that some polished environments were often the most internally disconnected, right? Everything looked like it was functioning on the surface, but beneath the surface, people were exhausted. It was unclear. There was a lot of hesitation, and people were overextended. So I remember realizing that leadership and leaders were more often rewarding appearance instead of alignment. Reporting that things look good, but operationally there was friction, and the friction is increasing. So people are managing optics instead of truly resolving problems. And that's when my understanding of leadership started to shift. And for me, it's realizing that leadership is not about creating appearance of stability But it's about reducing the distance between what is true, what is known, and what gets acted on.

Wow, that's a very powerful way of saying it. Now, something you have trademarked is institutional velocity. Let's talk about that. Uh, what is institutional velocity?

Well, I'm gonna share a little background to where this comes And this institutional velocity was born out of an experience I had with a team that had to act with intent, with authenticity, and quickly under extreme pressure. And it made me think about how decisions are made and how we execute. So I'm a systems thinker. And so institutional velocity is the speed at which truths, decisions, and execution move through a system without distortion, delay, and the biggest thing, that's organizational drag. Most organizations think they're being productive, right? But the problem is we're not actually moving. And I've seen teams spend weeks preparing updates about an issue instead of making decisions required to solve the issue itself, right?

Huh, okay. I guess that's what you would call low velocity. So why, why do you think so many organizations unknowingly operate at low velocity?

It's one thing, and this is my belief, is that busy looks effective. Right, but busy and effective are not the same. That's really what I believe it is. Being busy makes us seem effective, but the two are not the same.

That's really, really powerful. There is, um, one of my favorite books is this one, uh, The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership by John Maxwell. It is actually the curriculum for this season for my podcast and the law of priority, which is number 17. I think it aligns with what you're saying. It says leaders understand that activity is not necessarily accomplishment. So there's the difference between just being active and actually being able to achieve results. So what is the gap, you think?

Say that again for me, Coach BZ, the last question.

There is a difference, right, between just being busy, being active, and then actually producing results. What is the difference? What should leaders focus on?

Yeah, it's moving from meetings and moving from dashboards and moving from constant reviews and layers of approval, right? It is about understanding the problem that you're trying to solve very clearly, articulating it clearly and transparently. You know, you can be clear but you are not transparent, so it has to be the two— clear with transparency— so that you can move, right? Because we often meeting but there's no progress. It's pure hesitation disguised as process, right? Process is not measured by how much conversation exists around the work. It's measured by whether the system is absorbing those truths and there are decisions being made and then we're moving effectively.

That is quite powerful. What do you think are some of the early warning signs that decision velocity Maybe slowing.

This takes a skill that we often don't have time as leaders to do. This is about reflection and stepping back. One of the early warning signs is excessive caution around ownership. That's when the first red flag needs to go off. You begin hearing, "Oh, we need another review. Ah, let's revisit this next meek, or maybe we need to socialize this first before we do this, right? That's the main sign. There's another sign, and that's when people begin managing visibility more carefully than they are managing those outcomes.

Wow, that's quite insightful, uh, for the people who are listening right now. Those who aspire to lead, or the tech executive or military commanders listening at this moment, what do you think is one immediate action they can take this week to try to restore decision momentum?

Ah, begin by asking yourself questions, right? Questions about your systems and your truth, right? Calculated questions. About what are the truths that I'm not paying attention to, right? Looking at your system, are we making progress or are we talking about process, right? Because often we confuse process with getting progress done, and that's not what we're doing. So I think start first by what are the truths that I'm not facing? And are we making progress or are we focusing so much on process? Hmm, that is quite powerful.

Um, Calvin from the live audience say great perspective. You are clearly articulating how organization failed to see the pitfall from its system view. Thanks for sharing. And also, Calvin, if you have a question for Coach Maxime, go ahead and type it in the comment and, uh, we will answer those questions live. Sure. So you, you, you just mentioned the truth, Coach Maxime. Let's get a little bit deeper into this. Let's talk about the truth gap. You've said that if you believe you are getting the truth, you are already behind. What do you mean by that? Can you, um, unpack that for us?

Well, delay compounds consequences, right? So in high-stakes environments, delayed truth becomes operational vulnerabilities very quickly. Small issues become systemic issues because escalation slows, right? And so we think about our teams. Our teams begin compensating quietly instead of resolving openly. We're building— and, and I'll share this, this phrase, right? Psychologically safe environments, right? We have environments where staff, managers, even leaders are hiding the truth. People are working on problems quietly for months until a system is exhausted, right? And often leaders are making decisions against outdated realities instead of what is current realities, and that's extremely dangerous. And I, I would say this is extremely dangerous when you're thinking about military, cybersecurity, emergency management, right? Because we're so focused on these layers that we're not in the now and not paying attention to what's already happening.

Does that resonate? Wow, that is quite insightful. So what do you think is the role then of authority in making it unintentional of the truth to be distorted as leaders receive them?

Well, it's really about the organizational culture. We need to create environments that it's not about performance. Environments where staff are not quiet. Because I'll tell you, another signal is when there's way too much agreement. Staff are always aligned, but yet they're quiet, right? They respond yes, or everything's working. But we have to create environments where staff are comfortable challenging the system, but challenging the system respectfully. Respectfully, right? Disrupting. I love a team of disruptors because I'm a total disruptor, right? Sometimes we have to disrupt the system to hear the truths. And as a leader, you got to be ready and open to the truth, right? Because what you think may be the truth or the way forward may not be until you allow your staff, create an environment where staff are comfortable with raising alternatives, right? Questioning respectfully a decision and then offering an alternative.

Wow, that is, uh, quite insightful what you just said, because I know in the number of mishaps in the Navy Many times sailors are very afraid to let their commanding officer know, hey, there is something wrong here, because it is bad, bad news, right? And people do not like to embrace the red. What do you think, what type of system or structure must leaders kind of build to ensure that unfiltered truth, nothing but the truth, no matter how good or bad, right, reaches them?

You know, Internal leadership always becomes organizational leadership eventually. This is about internal leadership is not just about the executive leader, the commanding officer, the director. Internal leadership is about the team. I've seen environments where leaders are technically capable, but they're exhausted and the culture becomes reactive, tense, and emotionally fragmented. When you have a team that is given the permission, if you will, to be internal leaders, then you have an organization that is agile and nimble, and able to make adjustments successfully.

Now, I think mentioning internal leadership, let's dig a little bit into it. I remember one article you wrote, The Cost of Leading While Unavailable to Yourself. How does a leader know they have become unavailable to themselves?

It's when there's constant interruption and you're exhausted. It, right? But you're not paying attention, and all you're doing is reacting and responding rather than taking the opportunity to honestly reflect, have some quiet thinking and moments without having to perform to the demands, right? One thing I've learned, that if— that leaders spend as much time managing external signals that many— that they stop listening to the internal signals entirely. Wow. So it means reconnecting, right? And asking some really very simple questions: what am I avoiding? What am I tolerating? And what truths about myself have I stopped confronting?

Hmm. Say that one more time, please.

That's powerful. So to reconnect, right? Simple questions: what am I avoiding? Yes. What am I tolerating? And what truths about myself have I stopped confronting?

Wow, that is quite powerful. I guess that's human nature. I remember one of my commanding officers used to tell me that if you see something wrong and you don't say anything, that becomes the new standard. For your organization. But why, why do you think so many leaders, uh, tend to avoid confronting the truth? Why do you think that is?

It's an overrated habit called performative availability, right? They're constantly visible, and they think that visibility equals leadership. But constant visibility without clarity— it's really important— visibility without clarity actually creates more confusion.

Wow. And then you—

rather than doing what's underrated, and that's what's called decisional clarity, right? You're strategically thinking, you're behind the scenes, you're balancing being visible right? When you have that, you have the ability to have decisional clarity, and your teams can move faster.

Yes. So you're talking about visibility and clarity. What about transparency?

Ah, you know, transparency is to me one of the most overrated verbs, right? Because we don't really understand transparency. Transparency is just that, transparent. And it, it, I'm sorry, it requires leaders to be vulnerable, right? Because transparency means telling the truth. Yes. And so there are times where you gotta tell what's really happening so that your staff, your teams understand the state of play.

Hmm, I like that. So what daily practices would you say help leaders reconnect with themselves without stepping away from their high-pressure roles?

Uh, quiet time. You really need that quiet time, that time to think clearly, to observe what's happening, right? And to decide your next steps. And I'll take you back to those questions that I asked, right? It's about reconnecting. What are you avoiding? What are you tolerating? Yes. And what am I not confronting? Constantly taking those moments to step back and ask yourself those questions. Questions helps you with decision clarity, actually helps with confidence as well.

That is quite powerful. I, I want to get a little bit more practical with what you just said, but first let's go back to the audience. Calvin says, uh, the flaw of not focusing on first-level management— the lead majority of the people in large organizations, but they are in the mold of reacting, responding, and ensuring the performance of a company at the surface. So I guess that's performative leadership. And Jude said, well said. First question for you from the crowd. Calvin asked, I want to know how Coach Maxime believes an organization can take that first step. You have to find a way to break the system, the process, and say 'Let's look at this from a different way.' So what is the first step a, uh, leader can take?

Well, this is one of my mantras. This is what I call one of my boogaboos, right? Stop viewing leadership as a status. Leadership is not about status. Leadership is a responsibility, a responsibility for clarity, a responsibility for people. This is the moment where you become responsible for how truths, trust, and decisions move through a system. That's when leadership starts to feel different. It is not about performance. And you know what? Leadership is not for the weak of heart, right? If you want to lead, you've got to be ready to lead. And leadership is an art form. I consider it an art form. You've got to focus. You've got to keep tuning in and fine-tuning your skill sets, but you've got to balance between visibility and authority. And the strongest leaders usually realize their real responsibility is not about visibility, it's not about the performance, it's about reducing confusion, reducing distortion, and increasing trust. Under pressure.

That's a real leader. That's quite practical. Now, one thing you've said over and over again is leadership is not about visibility. Earlier you said it was about movement. How should leaders measure whether they are actually moving the system?

Well, that's— that is the challenge, and you measure How— you have to ask yourself a few questions. Are decisions moving faster? Are problems surfacing earlier? Are the teams clearer? Is accountability sharper? Right? I'm going to repeat those again because I think as leaders, these are really important questions that you've got to ask yourself on a regular basis. I ask myself those every single day. I measure movement by how decisions are moving. Are decisions moving faster? Are problems surfacing earlier? Are the teams crystal clear? And do they understand accountability? So is accountability sharper? I've seen organizations where leaders celebrate visibility while frontline teams are still not getting things done in a timely fashion and decisions are being made at a snail's pace. That's not movement. Wow. Leadership is measured by whether the system functions clearly, honestly, and effectively because you were there, right there with your teams getting the work done.

Wow, that's, that is quite powerful. You mentioned psychological safety earlier. How can leaders create that environment where dissent is safe, people can come and speak truthfully about what is going on in their respective area, but still disciplined and still productive? How, how do you make it happen?

Well, I will say this: psychological safety is built on Trust. Without trust, you can't have that psychological safety. So as a leader, doing what you say you're going to do, doing it with integrity and morality, and allowing your staff to voice concerns, right? It's setting the ego aside because again, leadership is not a performance. Leadership is a responsibility. And as leaders, we are responsible to ensure that our staff are the best versions of theirself every single day. Because it's not about me, the leader. It's about the organization. It's about the problem that we're solving. So being open to suggestions and creating an environment where folks are sitting at the table. It doesn't matter what your title is. What really matters to me as a leader is what are you bringing to the table and how are you helping us take this issue to resolution and doing it well through excellence and integrity. Wow. But staff can't feel safe if I don't demonstrate those behaviors and I am not safe. It's all again, Leadership is not performance. It's not visibility.

That is quite powerful. Calvin says, I guess, laughing out loud, the million-dollar question. But it's a question a lot of leaders ask. Basically, this is the same question I just asked you. Aurelia had the same one. How can leaders help create environment where staff feels that they can be disruptor? Because It is true in many work environments, people are very afraid to raise their hand and say, hey, something might be wrong, because when they do, they might get punished or the leader just doesn't want to hear it.

Yeah. You know, Coach Beezy, I want to add something else to this, and that is separating disagreement from disloyalty. That is really important. Strong organizations understand that discipline challenged improves decision quality. When a team becomes dangerously quiet, people learn that disagreement carried social or professional consequences. Silence eventually weakens the mission. But leaders also need standards around dissent, respectful, direct, mission-centered. The goal is not emotional chaos. The goal here is sharp collective thinking, right? So it's not about disagreement, and it's not being disloyal. And I think there's something really important here for leadership maturity, right? It's not about what you do for me. It's not about how you stroke my ego. It's about how are we getting the work done together? How are we loyal to our true north, to resolving the issue and the mission?

That's powerful. It reminds me of one of our leadership mantra in the Navy. We said, "Mission first, but people always," right? Taking care of the people to accomplish the mission. So for the people who are listening right now, What is one of the biggest mindset shifts you think is required to lead effectively in the age of AI?

Hmm, this is a good one, and it really goes back to what I've said a lot earlier, is stop viewing leadership as status because it's not status. It's a responsibility, and it's a huge responsibility that you carry, right? So when we think of leadership, It's really about the responsibility to be really clear. You're responsible for how truth, trust, and decisions move through a system. When you think about it that way, leadership is real different. I think many emerging leaders should focus on balancing visibility with authority first. But the strongest leaders eventually realize that their real responsibility is about reducing friction, confusion, distortion. It's all about trust. Everything boils down to it's all about trust, because when staff feels safe, they can do anything. And I have teams that have proven that.

Yes, yes. I think that's, that's why in the military, and people would go to the end of the earth and be willing to take a bullet for the people to their right and to their left. It's, uh Yes, pretty amazing when you see that. So let's talk about the future of leadership in the age of artificial intelligence. You said earlier that 2026 will expose leaders operating on delayed truth. What does that future look like?

Huh, well, systems are moving too quickly now for slow clarity and heavy filtered information. Right. And our organizations are built on these excessive hierarchies, artificial harmony, decision hesitation, while struggling under increasingly complex decision-making and complex issues. I think we're entering a period where leadership effectiveness will depend heavily on how quickly organizations can process reality, right? The reality, the now, the moment. Honestly, that is really crucial because if you can't process your reality and you're still focusing on the steps of the problem from 3 months ago, you're not making progress.

Wow, I like that. So how should leaders then prepare right now to remain effective in a complex, fast-moving, and automated environment?

Ah, it's all about that velocity. How do you be— how do we nimble? How do we move quickly? Clarity. Increase decisional clarity and reduce the distortion, right? You know, being clear, being transparent, on what is really happening and how we can tackle it as a unit really helps decrease decision-making, slow decision-making. All of this, Coach BZ, really centers on trust, environments where people can surface a problem very early without fear or retribution. Yes, I think the future leadership advantage will come less from control but more from adaptability and signal accuracy, and that requires leaning, listening in, and taking moments of quiet.

Wow, that is powerful. You just reminded me of another leadership maxim my mentor taught me, which is Rank is rented, but trust is earned. I guess trust is really the foundation for any high-performing team, isn't it? Yes, you're so right.

Without trust, you really have nothing. You know, I'm a really firm believer in I am nothing without my teams. So it's not about my performance, it's not about how articulate I am, it's not about the relationships that I make outside. It's about how I build my backbone, my infrastructure, and that's my team, whether it's the frontline team, the supervisors, the managers, the admin. Without them, I am absolutely nothing.

Wow, that shows a lot of humility too.

Well, I, I think people go into leadership for ego. Right? Yeah, ego and salary, but it's not about that. And true leadership does take that humility. It takes stepping back. It takes realizing that leaders are actually really good followers.

That's true. That's true. All right, I want to ask you one last question before I go into the last segment. For emerging leaders who are listening right now, What do you think is one of the biggest mindset shifts that's required for them to be effective leaders?

Ah, don't go in this for your ego. Don't go in this for performance, right? Leaders work really hard. You work hard a little differently. Yes, you are strategic, you are observing, and you are thinking. And if you're spending way too much time in meetings You're spending way too much time putting out fires. You're not leading. Wow. You're performing.

I love it. Calvin says he had to go. Disappointed I have to step out. This has really been a better use of my time this morning I could have possibly imagined. Thank you both. All right. And Calvin, and for those who do have to go, that's okay because you RSVP. Once we are done, you're gonna be able to view the replay immediately on LinkedIn. And on YouTube. All right, Coach Maxine, let me ask you this. For this last segment, I try to get into your mind to see some of the leadership principles you followed to help you be as successful as you are today. I guess one of the first questions I want to ask: what do you believe is one of the greatest lessons you have ever learned, whether in life, in leadership, or in general?

You know, one of the greatest lessons I have learned as a leader is trust my intuition. Trust yourself. Trusting that my journey, the knowledge and the skills that I've obtained over time, will help me make really good decisions. Wow. Wow. Now another thing I would add that I've learned over time is focus on mission. Be able to first myself understand the mission, the requirements to get to the mission, and what does the other side look like, right? When we've achieved— when we've been successful, what does that look like? Because when I know those things, I can better articulate that to my teams, to the organization. Is I have to be crystal clear. If I don't understand the mission, I don't know what we're supposed to be doing, and I don't understand what the desired state is. Yes, yes. Then I'm clueless and I can't lead.

Wow, that is quite powerful. Now, you have led at so many levels, including at the federal level, which is quite extra ordinary. But what do you believe is the secret to your success? Why have you been so successful so far, you think?

Oh, really quickly, my teams. I am not successful without my teams. Wow. My teams are my success. I learn from them every day.

Are there specific traits you look for when you choose a team?

Ah, that's a really good question, Coach BZ. This is what I look for. It's not about the skills, not the technical skills that I'm looking for. Yes, it's on my list of things. What I'm clearly looking for are the attributes of a high-performing teammate, right? Adaptability, curiosity, moxie. People say moxie. Oh yeah, you gotta have moxie to work me, right? And so moxie also has something to do with grit, right? But it's that constant curiosity and that willing to learn and willing to adapt that scores really high with me, because I believe that I can teach you just about anything. Yes, anyone can do anything if they're in the right conditions, a condition where they're allowed to be free. Free. I'm using that loosely, right? Where the conditions are ripe to question, to be curious, and to take risks. Wow. That's it.

That is powerful. Now, when it comes to taking risks, which I completely agree with you, but sometimes there are some risks I think that might be too high. How are you able to help your teammates discern A risk they can take, that's, they're gonna learn through it, but it's not going to be fatal to your business or to your mission. Do you have any tips for that?

We actually, when you wanna take a risk, let's walk through the risk, right? And, you know, it's not just arbitrarily, I wanna try this. Well, what are the pros and the cons of doing this? What are the ultimate outcomes? How does this risk align to our intended state, right? And if it doesn't work, what is the resolution, right? Got to be prepared, right? Because sometimes a risk we don't really know, but we have to have Plan A, B, C, D. Sometimes I go all the way up to Plan F. But I believe in risks because if we don't take risks, we stay in status quo. Yes, yes. Wow.

One of my mentors, Brian Tracy, used to teach me, you know, what is the worst-case scenario, and then making sure that doesn't happen. But wow, that, that is quite, quite powerful. Now, I know that leaders are learners. What are you learning this day, Coach Maxine?

Ah, what am I learning? I'm always learning because I'm curious. Um, right now I am focusing on Writing.

Yay!

I'm focusing on— now, I do my LinkedIn articles and my newsletter and my posts, but I am focusing on honing in that art to writing for a larger audience, and that will lead to something that may happen this coming late fall, early winter.

Yay! Fantastic. Can we have an idea of what your book is going to be about?

Just a moment. It is the most disruptive leadership book that's out there. Wow. There's not one like it. And folks who know me know I should be prepared for something that's explosive, something that is going to spin your head and you're going to be like, what? Did she say that for real?

Yes, she did. All right. That definitely earns you the title leadership provocateur. But whenever it comes in the fall, we need you back here. And let's help it make, be an instant bestseller for sure.

Now, I'd love for that to happen.

Most of the people I talk to on the podcast know part of the reason why you get invited is because of your success, of course. However, we never talk about failure, at least not enough in my opinion. How has failure shaped your life?

Well, I'm not afraid of failure. So I will start with that nugget. I think failure is an opportunity for success, right? I think it's, uh, Willie Jolly who says something about failure is your get up or your next step up, right? That's how I see it. And I'm not afraid.

It goes by doctor now. Dr. Willie Jolly. Dr.

Willie Jolly, yes. So failure to me is something we shouldn't be afraid of. But I do have a, uh, something that my teams always hear me say: failure is not an option. Failure is not an option, right? We're going to strive for the best, but when we fail, what did we learn from it? And so I see failure as my opportunity to learn. And if I don't have a failure, then I'm not living, I'm not leading.

That's powerful. Uh, the same mentor who wrote this book, Dr. John C. Maxwell wrote another book about failing forward, and, uh, I like the idea to fail but learn from your failure and then use that to even have greater level of success. But what, um, I guess another question I have for you is there maybe like a— what is one of the greatest fear you've had to overcome in your career or your life? If you're willing to share.

This right here, actually, public speaking. Really? Yes. My staff always laugh because I am an INTJ. I am a total introvert. Wow. And so it is taking me years to actually get to this place where I am comfortable.

Wow. Really? I still can't believe you. My goodness. Wow. Well, you hide that very, very well. Okay. And do you, do you think just by force of trying over and over again, just, uh, is that how you were able to overcome that?

Well, it did happen because of a couple things. I like teaching, so got to step out in front of people. Um, my leadership roles have normally been forced on me early in my career, so that meant I got to step up, got to talk to people. And then in order to be successful, you have to articulate things clearly. Yes. So it was challenging myself to speak in front of others to ensure my message was clear, to hear what others were thinking about what I was saying.

That is really, really powerful. Thank you so much for sharing, because I know they say in America most people rather pay more taxes or even die than speak publicly. So, uh, congratulations. It's, uh, how can I encourage someone who's listening now? Now let me ask you, if you could choose 3 people, right, 3 people, they could be alive, dead, or even fictitious character to have dinner with, who would you choose and why?

Ah, oh, I love this question. 3 people. One, my grandmother, because she is my exemplar of a leader. She was the, she was the community leader. She is the community leader. She's 103 years old today. She's 103 and she's still, uh, vibrant and supporting the community. She taught me about human and social services because everyone in our community came to Señora Alicia for support, right? She fed you, she clothed you, she loved on you, and, and it would be her. The other one would be Queen Nefertiti. Hmm. Her brilliance and her quiet leadership, um, is underrecognized for the impact that she had, um, over centuries and still today. And then I'll come to a current leader. I would say she's current, though she's not still with us today. Shirley Chisholm, because she brought her folding chair to the table. And in this age that I'm at right now, I bring my folding chair to the table.

Yes, yes. She's also the first Black woman to actually run for president. Exactly. Wow, that is amazing. Amazing. And I love what you said about your grandma because I'm originally from Africa and we We say that, uh, when an old person dies, it's pretty much an entire library that's been burned, right? Because they have so much knowledge and wisdom. And, uh, wow, that's powerful. Powerful. Now, what is, uh, maybe a couple of books that you've read that you would like to recommend to my audience?

Ah, oh, well, one of my favorite is Leaders Eat Last Simon Sinek. Yeah, it's really critical. Um, another book is— oh my gosh, I can't remember the title— Leaders as Followers. It's a blue book with a white title. I can't remember it, but I'll actually send it back so you can share it with your, uh, folk. And then there is a book called Presence Mm, I like that. And Presence, I cannot remember the author, but it's a book that stays on my night table as well because it's all about your presence and what that means and how your presence can be developed.

I think, is that by Amy, Amy Cuddy?

Yes, yes, got it. It's a great book. Um, and I also think that book is great if you suffer from imposter syndrome, as many of us do.

Hmm, yes, that is, that is quite powerful. Let me ask you this: do you think there is such a thing as executive presence? Oh yes, there is.

Some folks have it innately, right? It also can be developed. I will say on my teams, it is present because you cannot tell sometimes who is the executive. Wow.

Say that one more time. That is quite Powerful. You can't even tell. Yes.

So on my teams, executive presence is part of our team because you cannot always tell, well, who is the executive on this team, right? Wow. Because executive presence has a lot to do with integrity and confidence to me, right? It's how you carry yourself. Um, you might think you have executive presence, but you really have ego, right? But executive presence can be taught and can be used at all levels. It's not just at the executive level.

Wow, that is very, very powerful. Thank— thanks again for, uh, sharing that. And the, the book you, you mentioned earlier, so Presence by Amy Cuddy, Bringing, uh, Your Boldest Self, uh, in Your Biggest Challenge. Yeah, I'm trying to get her on this podcast. Hopefully I'm gonna be successful this year, but she has so much to offer. And then you also mentioned Simon Sinek's Leaders Eat Last. Of course, the one book Simon wrote that everybody knows is Start With Why. I like this one. But just so that you know, there is another book I like. I don't know if you've read this one. It's been recommended on this podcast a couple of times. It's about 'Never Eat Alone.' I don't know if you've read that book or not, but at least 3 people I have interviewed here have recommended this book, 'Never Eat Alone and Other Secrets to Success: One Relationship at a Time,' by Keith Ferrazzi. I love that.

I'll have to get that, you know. And relationships are so critical to leadership. Yes, yes. It's one of the other foundations of great leaders is having those diverse relationships, but authentic, genuine relationships. So true.

All right, so let me ask you this. Is there maybe a song, a book, or even a movie that would be your life's theme or one of your anthem?

Well, there are two songs. Okay. One is my personal song, it's called Who's That Girl by Eve. I get myself jazzed up. There's a second song, and I want to dedicate, Coach BZ, this song and this episode to a team that inspires me to be my greatest every single day. This team that touched me to my heart emotionally, and I'll give you their initials and they may know who they are, LAT. That song is They Are Not Like Us. And everybody knows that song, "They Not Like Us." And that is because there's never been a team I've ever experienced quite like the team of the LAT. Wow. And the book, the Bible, Yes, because all the answers are there. Whether you're struggling personally or in leadership, the answers are there.

Yes. Wow, thank you so much for sharing that. Okay, if you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Well, my final contribution would be to have built a cadre of leaders who will go out there and make a difference in systems unapologetically, genuinely, and with heart.

Wow, that's quite a legacy. And, uh, if you had a magic wand, you could solve any problem at all in the world, what is the one problem? You'd like to solve first thing tomorrow?

Racism in America. Yeah, because there's only one race, and that's the human race. Yes. And division does not lead to success, right? It is all about us in this dynamic, complex country that we live in with diverse experiences. This is a country that came to. Everyone came to. Yes, yes. It's not owned by any single culture. There is the Native Americans, and— but we came here. We were all brought here in some shape, form, or fashion, whether freely or unjustly. We do not have time. There is an urgency. There's an urgency that we must stop this.

Wow, that is powerful, powerful, powerful. But just so that you know, so Jude says, um, great conversation and insight. Kevin says, uh, I love a perspective on executive presence. And, uh, Aurelia say, uh, I'm so glad that I joined today. So you are impacting a lot of people live right now on LinkedIn and YouTube. Of course, more and more people are going to listen once our show is over, which it is, it is almost time. I really appreciate everything you are sharing, and I think that in our country, more than ever before, I think we really need to find, I believe, our way back to where we treat everybody with love, respect, and dignity, regardless of their race, their ethnic origin, or whatever.

You know, it's not that hard to get there. It's not that hard because human beings are innately right? Collaborative, innately full of love, innately genuine. So we just need to make that effort to go back there for the next generation. Our true center, our true north, we've lost it. And it doesn't take that much to get there, man.

That's so powerful and so timely. All right, we are already out of time, so let me ask you, uh, What can we do to add value back to you, Maxine?

Follow my Instagram, comment, share your ideas, reply, get on my website, um, and stay tuned for my forthcoming project that will unveil itself, uh, late fall, early winter. But you know, one thing I would say, Coach BZ, Lead with confidence and humility. If everybody could lead with confidence and humility and remember that leadership is not a status, it's your responsibility, that's what they could do for me.

Confidence and humility. All right, so like I said, technically we are out of time. Can you give me 5 more minutes before we land this? This time, sure. Okay, let's do this. It's gonna be lightning round, really rapid fire, so don't take too long to think. Whatever comes to your Brenna, I want to hear it right away. All right, what is one word that defines great leadership?

Genuineness.

Okay, morning routine or practice that keeps you grounded? Reflection. A book or a quote that changed your life?

Ah, the one book that comes Mine is Bible, but there's a second book and I can't get the title.

Who is the book by? The second book? What is the book about?

It is one of— it's, it's about the forest. Oh my gosh, Seeing Clearly Through the Forest.

Oh my goodness, Seeing Clearly Through the Forest.

Oh, it's got a blue cover.

Uh, I'm experiencing old age now. It's— it is— it is okay, um, because one of the reason why I do this podcast is to find out what is the next book I need to, to, to read. Is it Seeing the Forest Through the Trees by Sylvia Stone? Is that it? Yes, sir. Okay, okay, okay, I got it. Because I also have a digital, um, bookshelf, so I'm going to make sure to, to, to add that Okay, got it. And, um, let me see, what inspired you most today?

Staff. The LAT are my center.

Fantastic. Okay, a leadership habit you refuse to compromise on, you're gonna do no matter what?

Being unapologetically me.

That's right. Okay, what is the question every leader should ask themselves frequently?

Am I leading?

Hmm.

Am I truly leading? And do I understand leadership?

Wow, profound. Okay, what did you want to be when you were a kid?

Huh? Okay, this was funny. When I was a kid, I wanted to be an archaeologist.

Really? Huh. Yes, very good. Uh, I guess that's not what you're doing now, but in, in a way you are because you are a leadership coach, right? So you are, uh, I guess trying to find out the, uh, leadership principles, right? And then teaching it to, to others. So I guess in a, in a way you, you are. Okay, free adjective describing you as a child.

As a child, mischievous. Quiet.

One more.

Challenge the system. Challenge.

Okay, that's provocateur out of you. What about as an adult? As an adult?

Ah, disruptor. Two more. Um, profound. One more.

And unapologetic. All right, okay, so we are coming to the end of the show, and I like to end on a positive note. So what is one thing you are feeling optimistic about these days?

I am optimistic about the possibilities of what we can do when we are under so much pressure, so much divisiveness, and so much attack. Wow. Because that's when innovation and creativity Blossoms.

That's powerful. Powerful. All right. The very, very last question, and this is it, I'm going to ask is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today. One word. Ah, magnificent. Well, Coach Maxine, I am so grateful you were here. Thank you for being one of our master teachers today and sharing your wisdom with us. Again, when that book comes out in the fall, please, please come back and let's make it a bestseller. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom with us.

Thank you for having me. Thank you.

All right, everyone, this is one for the book. Again, follow Coach Maxine. Let me make sure I get the right caption here. So she's on LinkedIn, LinkedIn @mmalone, and her website, unapologeticallyshe.com. And if you want to hire her as a consultant or speaker, you can go to our website as well. This has been quite fabulous. I think I have learned so much today. And if I could kind of summarize some of the things we talked about today, I think leadership may not be what you think it is, but really, I feel like at its core, it is about taking care of your people. That's really what she talked about. If you have clarity, if you show respect, if you really show true care for the people who work for you, like she said, there is nothing that they would not be able to do. Wow, I am, I am so grateful for that. Now, uh, for us to end the show today, I was gonna show you, uh, a couple of, uh, videos to celebrate what I call Black History Year because, uh, Black History Month is only 28 days. That's just not long enough. I have written a couple of LinkedIn, uh, articles where you can find out more, but I want to play a quick video about this man here, William Thaddeus Coleman Jr., and we want to learn about what he was able to accomplish, but also this man, this was the very first, I believe, elected politician in the US, Black. He was a Lieutenant Governor for Louisiana. Louisiana has been in the news quite often these past couple of weeks. I think it's very important for us to understand Black history because it truly is American history. History. And, I am gonna play those quick videos. It doesn't take very, very long. And, that's gonna be the end of the show today. But, later today, I believe at 6:00 PM California time, so 9:00 PM on the East Coast, I'm gonna be talking to Coach Pavitra Venkatesan. She's written a book, Archetypal Remembering. We're gonna be talking about discovering the self Beneath the Role. And then, tomorrow, Wednesday, I'm gonna do something I've never done before. We are going to have our show in a foreign language. We're gonna be having the Leadership Success Podcast not in English, but in French. We're gonna be talking French for about an hour. I'm gonna be speaking with Coach Nathalie Colombat from Lyon, France. We're gonna be talking about conscious leadership, l'ère de l'IA et du burnout. Now, the good thing is for those of you who speak English, later that day around 9:00 AM California time, we're going to have the same show, this time in English. And the reason why we're going to do English second is because she does speak English, but English is not her first language. She doesn't feel so comfortable doing it, but I was able to inspire her to do the show in English too. For most of the people, more than 70, almost 80% of people who follow the show speak English. But when we do the show in French, if you are with us, you can go to YouTube, you're going to be able to look at the caption. Live caption in English on YouTube. And then I will also have a last show tomorrow with Coach Kim Palermo. This is probably one of the most insightful shows I'm gonna have this year. She wrote a book about indoctrination, Indoctrination 365: The Stories America Never Fully Told. There is a lot of fun things we believe about this country that are just myth, right? They are not real. And she's gonna go back our real history and really show us what we can learn from our true history. And I think it's gonna go back into the theme of what Coach Maxim talked about, trying to eradicate racism from this land. Now, we are gonna be celebrating 250 years now as a country, and I think it's about time that our country become what it aspired to be from the very beginning, right? All men are created equal, a country for all people. Where everybody has the same position before the law. So I am looking forward to that. So I'm gonna play a couple of video to celebrate Black History Month, and that's gonna be the end of the podcast today. Thanks again for watching.

From 1863 to the late 1870s, nearly 1,500 Black men would come into political power. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux tells the story of one of them, Oscar James Dunn.

Oscar Dunn's story cannot explain the entire notion of Reconstruction. It does give students a very tangible person that they can wrap their minds around.

Oscar James Dunn is free. And educated and living in Louisiana in the mid-1800s. He teaches music for a time and is a leader of the local Freemasons. During the war, he sees slaves around him freed and knows white businessmen will still need workers.

The slaves have no idea of what wages are now that they're freed, and they need people to negotiate contracts for them so they are not cheated. Dunn begins negotiating these contracts, and he becomes very, very successful at that.

New Orleans is an unusual place, of course, because it had this very complicated demography. There was this significant free people of color population who were highly educated, and they took the occasion of of the new government to demand the right to vote.

There were actually lots of other people who were arguing at the time for universal suffrage for Black men, saying we can't start to bring these states back into the Union unless African American men are enfranchised. Otherwise, like, how can they protect their own freedom?

But Lincoln's assassination brings on the presidency of Andrew Johnson, who was sympathetic to the former Confederates. While the Republican Congress continued to help former slaves establish homes, build farms, and attend schools, they were divided over the issue of the vote.

We can't imagine a country that— where— in which Black people are on the same level as white people. Some of these white Republicans would have thought African Americans deserve to be free, they deserve to have other kinds of basic rights that white people enjoy, but voting, uh, that seems like a bridge too far.

Under Johnson's easy hand, Confederates cling to control in the South. In the South, they enact racist policies and legal codes. But across the South, Black freedmen like Dunn persist in pushing back. In 1866, a firestorm ignites. In Memphis, white mobs massacre dozens of Black people. Months later, in Dunn's hometown of New Orleans, Black delegates and white supporters leave a meeting at Mechanics Institute. When they're brutally attacked and murdered. But Oscar Dunn is not there. He'd been warned not to go.

The belief that you could simply overturn elections, that you can incite violence as a legitimate method of putting people into control— these sort of threats were in the air all the time during Reconstruction.

The violence convinces Republicans in Congress to help. On March 2, 1867, they override Johnson's veto and pass the Reconstruction Act. They call for new laws and new leadership across the South, and they guarantee the vote for Black men, hoping the hundreds of thousands now free will come to the polls to support these changes. And they do. Hundreds of Black men are voted into statewide office, and Dunne is one of them. He becomes Lieutenant Governor of Louisiana and serves under Governor Henry Clay Warmoth. Dunne believes the vote grants lawmakers like him the power to begin the long, slow work of breaking down segregation. He puts Black men on the local police force and sends his own children to all-white schools.

I believe that racism happens when we can keep distance between people. What African Americans, even Oscar James Dunn, realized was education gave us the opportunity to dismantle racism if we allow children to just be children.

Dunn's vision stretches far as he travels from Louisiana to Washington, D.C. to Boston speaking out against racial segregation. But his ambition has little time to rise. His term is cut short after 4 years.

Dunne gets violently ill after having gone to a public dinner. Many of his friends and family maintain that he could have been poisoned at this reception. He's only sick for a few days and he dies.

In the years that follow, the rise and fall of Black Power is swift and fleeting. Reconstruction came to be the high-water mark of Black political leadership. Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay Stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.