S5:E122🎙️ LIVE with DP4 Herman Brown, USN (Vet.)

¡Hola!

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The technology that you're implementing and using in an organization actually makes a difference.

Within my first 6 months of being with the DA's office, we had an incident in which, you know, our investigators were able to track down an adopted child and return that child safely home.

The work that myself and my team did in providing our investigators the tools to be able to do that job You had a direct impact. Technology definitely can help in getting to the truth of a case. It's all about teamwork, partnering the IT with the business side of the house to ensure that the organization is successful in meeting our goals. The use of Everlaw has impacted the team's workflow and efficiency 100%. We can try more cases with the same amount of staff. It's freeing up staff from having to spend that time in manually going through all those documents. So that they now can build a case surrounding that information and data. We now have centralized data, and so when there's turnover in staff, we no longer have to go combing through someone's history files, their home directory. It's just a matter of us updating permissions to allow those who need access to that information to have access to that information. And most important for me is security because of the types of data that we have to deal with. HIPAA, PCI, PII, CJIS, DOJ regulations, everything that we do is based on the foundation of security first. In our evaluation of Everlaw, immediately we saw the security around the system and solutions, and therefore it made the decision very easy and a quick turnaround. When I first started at the DA's office, we were very much a pen and paper organization. That has all changed now. I think this is just the beginning.

Alright everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership Success podcast. I am so overjoyed today. We have a very special guest waiting for us in the green room. But before I bring him on, as is our custom here, and everybody knows the drill, we're gonna do what we call a moment of gratitude. This is where we take a moment every single time we meet to be grateful. And part of the reason why we do this, as you know, is because in the US military, It's about 21, 22 service members and veterans who commit suicide, not every year, not every month, but every single day. And we believe that it's not possible to be suicidal and be grateful at the same time. So if you would maybe close your eyes, put yourself in your happy place, and take just a moment to be grateful for something right now. For me, I am really grateful that today is election day in California. If you live in California, I believe you need to go vote today if you haven't already taken part with early voting. And I'm so glad today, so, so, so grateful. My youngest daughter, she turned 18 late last year, and today was her very, very first time voting with me, and that was so wonderful to see. And I believe if you happen to be Black, especially You absolutely have to vote because so many people have died to give you that right in this country to vote. So you need to use that privilege. I would not waste it. Okay, that's all I am going to say. Go vote, go vote, go vote, and be part of your government. And if you don't like what's going on in the politics of your city, your county, or your country, go vote and make changes. That is how we are able to make our voice heard in this country. One of my mentors told me, if you don't vote, you don't have a right to complain, and I think I agree with that. All right, so let me see if I can properly introduce our guest today. Today I am going to be speaking to a naval sailor, a U.S. Navy veteran. I'm excited to welcome DP2 Herman Brown, U.S. Navy veteran. He is the Chief Information Officer for the San Francisco District Attorney's Office. To the Leadership and Success podcast. So, Ermin Braun is a distinguished technology executive, US Navy veteran, public servant, mentor, transformational leader with more than 30 years of experience spanning military service, Silicon Valley, and government. As the CIO of the San Francisco District Attorney's Office, Ermin has led the organization's evolution from a paper-intense environment into a modern, technology-driven, secure enterprise. Throughout his career, he has successfully driven digital transformation initiatives, strengthened cybersecurity programs, and streamlined operations, reduced costs, and empowered teams to embrace innovation while supporting one of the most important missions in government: public safety. His leadership philosophy is centered on pride, accountability, communication, innovation, and teamwork. Principles that have enabled him to build trust, inspire change, and create lasting impact. Part of what you're gonna be learning today is leadership lesson from US Navy that still applies in today's boardroom, but also the future of AI, cybersecurity, and innovation in government. As Erman often reminds us, technology alone does not transform organization, people do. All right. Without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Irman Brown. All right, good morning. Actually, good afternoon. We are both in the San Francisco Bay Area. How are you doing, Irman?

I'm doing well. Thank you very much for having me.

Actually, since you are in the Bay Area, we could have done this in person. I'm so glad, so glad you are here. I know we had to reschedule a couple of times and you are a very, very busy man. So I'm so grateful to talk to you today. I guess to just get started, Erman, what is something you are grateful for today?

You know, I'm grateful to be here. You're right. I'm grateful for being able to share my story, my experiences, and hoping that just by me speaking and being here and sharing my experiences, that someone else is able to learn or take what I'm saying and utilize it in a positive way in their life.

That is so wonderful. Is there something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

Wow. So, you know, I do this icebreaker question with my team whenever we get a new team member, and I ask the question is, yeah, what is that one thing someone may not know about you that you can share with the group? And it's a great way to be able to get to know people. And break down those walls. And the story that I share with my team, so my team knows this, but very few people outside of my team knows this, is I'm actually in a rap video.

Really?

Yes, yes. Okay, tell us more. Yes, I'm a big San Francisco 49ers fan. And there's a song by Champ Bailey, Who's Got It Better Than Us. And one day we're at Candlestick And we're— I'm with my crew and we're tailgating and so forth. And this guy walks up with this little camera crew and says, hey, you know, you guys want to be in a video? And we're like, yeah, sure, you know, why not? Why not? Not knowing it was Champ Bailey, who was kind of a local, you know, celebrity.

Yes.

And sure enough. So who's got it better than us? I'm in the video. And so my team has gone through the video and have spotted, you know, every spot that I'm in the video and given me the timeline. Like, yeah, you show up at 54 seconds, you show up again at, you know, They're just quick little cameo spots, but I'm not in the video. That's amazing.

Okay, I just found it on YouTube, Vivo. Wow, this is awesome. Okay, I'm going to make sure to play the— I can't play it now because of copyrights and all of that, but after the show, I will upload it on LinkedIn. This is fantastic. So you are a very, very famous, quite a great influencer in the Bay Area. I didn't know that. This is pretty cool. Now, you and I, we did join the Navy, and thank you so much for your service. So as a Navy data communication specialist, how did your military service kind of shape your leadership philosophy and prepare you for executive leadership later in life?

Well, I, I think at every level of the military, the military is shaping you to be the best that you can be.

Yes.

Um, and so just coming from just creating the mindset of success, right? I can do this, I will do this, we will achieve this. And not just I, but we as a group collectively.

Yes.

And I think that's what actually makes a good leader. You know, I remember being in the boardroom or in a meeting with the DA when I first started, and we had just completed a project, and he was like, hey, you know, I want to congratulate you, great job on, you know, and completing the project. And I said, well, you know, I appreciate it, sir, but Truthfully, the appreciation goes to the team.

Yes.

You were boots on the ground, hands on the street doing the work. And he's like, well, no, but it starts with leadership. And I was like, yeah, but I get to be the high candy of the organization. I said, but it's really the team that's doing the work. And so I appreciate the team and that's where it goes. The credit goes to is the team. And I think that's something that I learned from the military, that no one is successful alone. It's all about the team and the team success.

That is so powerful. Okay, let me ask you this. What if everything goes wrong? Who's to blame?

Well, the blame still falls on the— it falls on the leader, right?

Yes, yes.

The team gets all the credit when things go good, but when, you know, when things go bad, it falls on the leader.

So that is—

I've had to fall on my sword a couple of times, you know. Uh, yes, but yeah, it happens.

It's a very, very important leadership lesson. And what I really love about the Navy, you don't even have to be an officer or a senior officer, like I am today, 21 years ago when I joined in as an E-1, right? Seaman Recruit, lowest rank in the military. The Navy starts really putting those into you, turning you into a sailor, right? Sailorization of a civilian guy where you really understand what it takes to be successful. And we absolutely have to work as a team. That is so, so, so powerful. Where did you go for boot camp?

So I did boot camp and A-school in San Diego.

Oh, San Diego.

Okay.

Yeah, which I loved. And I— but I went during, um, June, so June, 2 days after graduation high school.

That was perfect.

I was off to boot camp in San Diego, which, um, I always wanted to go to California or come to California. So I was like, oh yeah, I'm going—

that is awesome—

San Diego, going to California. And I wasn't really prepared for the weather, all right? Even though it was summer, there were some hot days, but there were some cool cooler days and there were some cooler nights, you know, because you think of—

no, no, no, no, no, no, it's always warm. No, no, San Diego is perfect weather.

Come on, man, it is perfect weather. It is perfect.

You have the ocean, the beach. It's like, man, it's almost like my second home now. Right now I am assigned to our Third Fleet, which our headquarters is in San Diego. I've been in San Diego so many times. But yeah, it's so, so beautiful, but just so expensive. This day, but so, so beautiful. Yeah, I went to RTC Great Mistake, I mean Great Lakes in Illinois. I'm so glad I didn't go during the winter because my shipmates went in the winter, my goodness, they suffered. They really truly suffered. I was there during the summer, so it was just fine. Let me ask you this. Many veterans kind of struggle, right, to translate military experience into civilian success. You were able to do it so well in Silicon Valley and now working for the local government. What advice would you give young service members listening to us now preparing to transition into the civilian world?

I think it can be a difficult transition because one of the things that the military does teach you is also to be a follower. Right. And to be able to follow direction without a lot of instruction, and/or not to question, you know, the authority.

Yes.

And so that, to me, is one of the hardest things, I think, from transitioning from the military to civilian life is, is knowing that it is okay to actually question authority and to gain better understanding of what the mission is and how you're going to play a part in that mission, right? The, the mission from public service, or the active duty military and private sector are totally different. Our mission and goal in the military is to protect our civil liberties and our rights. And so there's not a lot of question about what it is that we're there for. But when you get to private sector, and you're working for an organization, the mission is very different.

Yes.

Some mission is to be able to provide services to constituents like, you know, in the City and County of San Francisco government space to make it a profit for the organization. And then you have to figure out, you know, is this an organization that I want to be a part of that's only about making profit and not bettering the community or not providing any type of safety? So don't be afraid to question it and ask yourself, is this the type of environment an organization that I want to be a part of? And I think that becomes the hard part. And I know there was an adjustment period for me, you know, when I kind of just sat back and people said, oh, this is what you need to do. And I was like, okay, and I would just do it and not really understanding why I was doing it or why I needed to do it and how this was benefiting anyone other than the people making the money.

That is a very important insight. Because sometimes I feel like when I am in uniform, I'm almost like Superman, right? I am really working to help improve the national security of the most powerful country in the world. You get to go places and do things that you just couldn't dream of doing in any other place or setting. But generally speaking, in the industry, many industries, many companies, all they really care about is just the bottom line or making money and profit and so forth. If you come from the military mindset, sometimes that may not be what motivates you, and that might be a problem also. Have you experienced that where you really felt like they didn't really have any mission really above and beyond themselves, but it was just about making money, period?

Uh, yeah, I think there were definitely, uh, some organizations I was a part of that was all about making money, you know, and being profitable. Yeah, we provided a service. But the service was about making money, right? It's helping someone else make money. So I worked for a consulting agency, service provider when I first got out of the military. And I was farmed out to businesses and helping them build their systems and infrastructure and support their staff, and so that they could make more money and their line of business that would generate more money for our company and provide, you know, me more time and hours out on site. But it wasn't really— it wasn't doing anything to better the community. It wasn't a national security thing, you know, that you get to be in the— when you're like you said, when you put on that uniform, you feel like Superman, you're a superhero, right? You're protecting our civil liberties and the things that our forefathers, you know, have fought for so that we would have the right to vote Yes, we would have the right to go to school. We'd have, you know, the right to have our own mindsets and make our own decisions. Yes, that free will, so to speak, that a lot of other countries don't get.

That is so, so true. So I would say for those transition, you have to be careful, really make sure whatever company you are going to work for— now I understand sometimes you just have to work to make money and be able to pay your bills.

I do.

I do get it. But when you come from a service-oriented organization like the Navy or the Air Force or some of the other military branches, sometimes, though, if you don't have that passion or that purpose, you may feel unfulfilled because you're like, you know, same old, same old. You are doing stuff and very mechanical and you're making profit. But that doesn't really satisfy. You don't really get that brotherhood that you get in the military. Like even today, 21 years later, I am still in touch with the people I went to boot camp with. They've almost become like my brothers, although I didn't know them until the day I met them there. So there is really, I think, a lot of benefits that you get from being in the service. I feel like you can't really get anywhere else, at least not in the same way. Now, there is this thing too. So let me ask you, sailor, what are the core values of a sailor?

So the core values— so for my team here, we have these values.

No, no, no, not your team. Sailors, U.S. Navy sailors.

Oh, the core value of sailors, integrity, loyalty, dedication.

Okay, that is, that is close enough because I do speak a lot, about 12 to 15 times every year, and every time I ask people what are the core values for their organization, less than 2% know what the core values of their organizations are. Many of them, they have to go to their website and figure out what, what those are, and to me that's a big, big Your audio cut. Sorry, can you hear me now?

Yeah, I can hear you now.

Okay, I don't know what happened. It looks like I lost my— hold on just one quick second. Let me see if I can get my sound back.

Yeah, I can hear you fine now.

Okay, it looks like I am using my computer's Microphone. I want to use this microphone here. No. Can you hear me now?

I can hear you now.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, sorry, what was the last thing you heard from me?

Uh, when you're asking the question about core values.

Oh yeah, yes.

And most organizations don't know the core value.

Thanks. I guess the question I have for you, why do you believe it is important for the people who work for you to know exactly what the mission of your organizations are and also what your core values are? Why is that important to know?

Well, I feel that it's important for the, for your team, the organization to know what the core values and missions are so that they understand the mission and to help build that loyalty, that confidence, that understanding so that they know what they're involved in and can help build their dedication and support for the mission.

So powerful, so powerful. So were there any specific mentor or mentors who kind of changed the trajectory of your career?

Um, I would not say so much mentors and mentees. I, I came up in in an era where there were very few people of color, right, that, that were in higher ranking positions that really I could look up to and outside of the military, right, talking private sector. But while I was in the military, so I did technology, but my true passion was actually architecture.

Wow.

I was actually going to school to be an architect while I was in the military.

Wow.

Yes.. And so while going to school, I was probably about 3 to 6 months away from getting out of the military. And Professor Green, I still remember his name, he asked me, says, you know, Herman, we had this project that we were working on. And during the semester, my military shift changed. And so instead of me being day shift, I was now on swing shift. And so it was interrupting my class schedule. So I was missing classes. And so I was trying to work around that schedule. And he was very accommodating. The school is very accommodating and working with me to be able to make up those classes outside. Well, we had a CAD drawing that needed to be completed. And I had this one line that just would not intersect with its other point. And he looked at it, I looked at it, we, you know, we deleted that line of code, and we went back a couple of lines of code and recreated it. And it still would not, you know, connect. And I— so I said, you know what, I'm just going to wipe it and just start from scratch. And he's like, if you start all over again on this project, you're— he's like, you're never going to be able to get this finished in time, you know, because it was this detailed mechanical drawing that we, we did. We were drawing some mechanical thing, I don't remember exactly what it was. And I said, well, but I'm not going to be able to get this right. And he was like, well, don't worry about it, you know, I'll, I'll note this and, you know, I won't count off on it because I can't figure out why it's not working. Wow. So I, you know what, I'm scratch— I'm starting from scratch. I wiped it all the code, I started from scratch. I still completed the project on time with the rest of the class.

Wow.

And he was like, oh my God, how were you able to do this? I said, well, you know, I do work. I work with computers all day. And he's like, what? Why do you want to be an architect? And I was like, well, I just always had a passion for architecture. I took architecture in high school, you know.

Wow.

And so, right, thank you. Thank you. And so he was like, well, you've been in my Architecture 101 class. What does it take to be an architect? And I was like, well, it's a 5-year program, you know, exams offered once a year, it's 33 and a half hours, it's a 17% pass rate, it's actually harder to pass the architect exam than it is the bar, you know, you have to work as an apprentice for 3 years. And like, okay, obviously, you've paid attention, you know, you in, in Architecture 101. So you've learned that. Now, how much money are you going to make as an, as an apprentice when you get out of the military in architecture? And I was like, somewhere between $8 and $12 an hour. And he's like, okay, and how much— how long have you been in the military? And I was like, 7 years. And how long have you been doing computers? I said, the full time. He's like, have they sent you to school? Yeah, I've been to some, you know, some training schools, and, you know, I've learned some things. And he's like, okay, and how much money you think you're going to make getting out of the military, working in technology? And I was like, $35 to $45 an hour. And he's like, okay, and you want to be an architect? Why?

Wow.

You know, $8 to $12, you know, $25 to $35. He said, so this is what I suggest you do. Not to discourage you from being an architect, but change your major to computer science, finish in 4 years. Wow. You truly want to become an architect. Go back and get your master's in architecture, right? And then you don't have to set for the exam and you can be making money and, you know, and then move on from there. And then what type of architect do you want to be? Do you want to do commercial buildings or do you want to do residential? And I said, well, truly, I would want to do residential. He's like, well, you don't even have— he said, oh hell, you don't even have to, you know, be, you know, certified architect to do residential as long as it's under 10,000 square feet.

Wow.

He's like, so you don't even need the credentials. And so he's like, look at me, I'm 65 years old, you know, supplementing my income by teaching you. Wow. Like I said, it's up to you. But this is advice that I give you. And that was probably the best advice that anyone has ever given me. And it's gotten me to where I am today. Now, I haven't gone back to get my master's in architecture. So I'm a little disappointed in that. And Mr. Green, if you're out there listening, you know, I apologize. I'm sorry. You know, but I, but I think of myself as a different type of architect today. Yes. Architecting networks and systems.

That's amazing. Wow. That is really, really powerful. Thank you so much for sharing that, man. Sometimes you can just have that one person in your life that would say something that would pretty much change the trajectory of your entire career.

Wow.

Right.

Well, and, you know, and the great thing about that was that he didn't tell me what to do. He let me come to that conclusion on my own.

Yes.

Just by, you know, asking those questions.. And I think that's a great way to— because, you know, a lot of people, you know, are resistant, especially when you're young and you think you know everything. When somebody tells you, hey, you should— you need to do this, or this is what you should be doing, right? But to have me go through that process and understand, you know, what it was that I was saying and thinking about it, you know, it drew me to the own conclusion that, hey, this is something I need to do.

That's powerful. That is powerful. Yeah, you remind me, when I, when I was in college, I was, um, pre-med. I really wanted to, to go to medical school. But I guess I am not a medical doctor, but in some way, I guess in cybersecurity, we get rid of all of the bugs in the codes, right? So I guess in some way we bring health to AI and information systems. But it's really interesting the way life works out sometimes. Wow. So when you look back over 30 years in technology, what decision had the biggest impact on your professional growth, you think? From the Navy to Silicon Valley and now local government?

Wow, what was the big thing? As I've, um, I, I think the biggest impact has been diversity from the standpoint of knowledge. I have been fortunate, I guess you could say, in that I have held a number of different positions.

Yes, systems.

Like I started off, you know, I said in the military working on mainframes with paper tape and card readers, which is really showing my age. Most people don't know anything about that nowadays. Yeah. But having that, that foundation, but then I was a— I've done cabling, you know, so manufacturing RJ11s, RJ45s, polishing the tips on fiber, running cabling through crawl spaces, you know, I did all those, you know, those low-level entry-level jobs to, you know, being a network engineer to a systems engineer working on Unix, Linux, Novell.

That's amazing.

Microsoft, you know, VMware, Nutanix, you know, to being mid-level management to senior management to CIO. You know, VP, Director of Technology for organization, that, that all those different levels and experiences taught me what it takes to do those roles and positions. And that has helped me just become a better leader because I understand the work I've done it, you know, before.

That's amazing.

And again, and can appreciate the people that have to do it. Yeah, yes, it can be.

That is so, so true. Like, in some way too, I mean, it's not always the case, I guess, but I am really grateful that I started my Navy career as, you know, lowest ranked in the Navy as an E-1 enlisted, because I feel like some officers sometimes when they come through the OCS program or the Naval Academy, I don't know, most of them are fine, they do a great job, but I feel like something is kind of missing because having been enlisted and understanding exactly what your sailors do all over the world, the White House and, you know, all of the challenges they have, and now you are in charge of them, now you tell them what to do. Having been there before, I think it just makes things a little bit more special. Yes, I think I've always really had great, great respect for the commanding officer who used to be enlisted, who used to do what they're asking me to do now. I feel like there is just an affinity, a a sense of, I can relate to that, which I don't think you get if you start all the way up there and you've really never experienced that. But anyway, so let's talk about transformation because you arrived at the San Francisco District Office, like I said in the introduction, that was largely a paper-based organization, paper and pencil. What was your vision for transforming it into a technology-driven secure enterprise?

Well, I've been fortunate, and I always say fortunate because I think every experience that I've gone through has been a fortunate experience for me because I've been able to learn and take what I've learned in that previous position and apply it within my next position for continual growth and education, self-growth and education. But coming into the DA's office, it was about really taking a government organization and wanting to transform it to a law firm that represents the government. Wow. And so as I looked at, you know, one of the reasons I came back to government was that I wanted to be fiscally responsible with taxpayers' dollars. And so just looking at how, how could we be fiscally responsible with taxpayers' dollars, not implement technologies just for the simple fact of implementing technology, but to be able to implement technology that is going to help the organization be able to be more efficient, more productive, streamline those processes and so forth. So when I came into the organization and I was looking at how we're still kind of a paper-laden organization, um, there was a case management system in place. And one of the things that the DA had said was like, this is your number one project for me is to replace the case management system. And I was like, okay, great. Not a problem. And they're, oh, by the way, here's a contract for a vendor that we're, you know, looking to move to. And I looked through the contract, and I was like, okay, this is a contract. But what are the requirements? Why are we doing this? You know? And so I asked the project manager, the leadership team, you know, what are the requirements around this new case management system. And it was, well, the current system's 20+ years old, not everyone uses it, we need a new system. I said, well, those are reasons why, but those are not, you know, requirements. I said, so we need to get to the requirements piece of it. So just getting that understanding of that, I was starting from a very infancy standpoint from a project management governance.

That's the architect in you. Yeah.

Yeah. And I was like, okay, well, we need— I need to look at everything else. And, you know, so I met with— I spent my first 90 days, right, meeting with my staff, meeting with middle-level managers, meeting with senior-level management, and asking questions about, you know, what works, what doesn't work for you, what are your problem areas, and being able to come back and take all of that collective information. And then put together a kind of project plan of, okay, here's the things that I want to do, here's how they layer on top of one another. And then taking that back to the leadership team and saying, hey, you know, I want to build an environment in which security is number one, right? Because of the type of datasets that we manage and we support is we have to make sure that we have that foundation of security, and then we build the applications and everything everything else, business process on top of that. But I cannot make the decision on what that security risk is for the organization. That is a collective decision that the organization, the business has to make. And so I needed to get that understanding of what their risk tolerance was. And I told him, I said, because if you put this all on me, I want everything to be low. Make everything low. Staff may not be able to do what they need to do to be able to perform their jobs because security is a, is a hindrance to them. So we have to determine that. So, so that was really kind of the basis and the foundation, and we just started from there and just slowly building. And, and things like just simple things, just like getting laptops to people, you know, the staff. I mean, when I came on board, we had maybe 12% of the staff had laptops.

Wow.

And of that 12%, Maybe 2% of them were outside of IT. Hmm, you know, and so we— so people were forced to be in the office. And so giving laptops help with work-life balance, help them to be able to be mobile, to be able to take it into the courtroom, conference room. Right. And so it just kind of changed the whole dynamics and about us not being so government and rigid that, hey, we need to be agile, we need to think outside of the the box.

Yeah, especially in Silicon Valley. Wow.

Right.

Well, and it's so difficult when you come into government organizations, because they will look and tell you, hey, this, this, this is broken, it needs to be fixed. And you say, okay, great, we're going to get the tool to fix that. And then they come back and say, well, I want to implement that same broken process, though, or item with the, with the new tool. And I was, and I was like, no, we're not going to do that. And that was that private sector mentality. Government No, we're not going to take a broken problem and fix it with another broken problem. We're going to fix it with this new tool.

Wow.

Solution.

That is really amazing.

Yeah. Well, and it's difficult, right? As I tell people, technology is not the hard part. People are the hard part.

Yes. That's something you said, right? This isn't an IT project. It's a business project led by IT.

Correct.

So what do technology leaders get wrong when trying to drive transformation, you think?

Well, I think sometimes the technologists think that they know the business and what they can do. And whereas like in my example, you know, with like the new case management system and going to my leadership team, I was like, look, I'm not an attorney, I'm not an investigator, I'm not a paralegal, I'm not a victim advocate, you know, I'm not a victim claims person. So these are all the various units within the organization that my team and I support. Port. And I was like, so I cannot say what that business process should look like and be. Now I have an ideal from a technology perspective on what it should be and how it should work, but I don't know the in-the-weeds intricate details. And that's where we have to partner with the business, and the business has to be a part of that project to be able to help us understand that and guide us through that. So we need the business subject matter experts. And there was pushback. You know, leadership attorneys, you know, they have to be in trial. The paralegals, they're overworked, you know, overwhelmed because they have to do all these things supporting the attorneys in trial and so forth. And I was like, well, if you tell me the only success criteria for a new case management system, that it's a new case management system, then fine, you know, IT can do it and we can implement it. But if you tell me it needs to be able to solve this problem, it needs to help us be paid for this, they need to be able to file motions in court, they need to do all these other things that I have no idea of what an attorney does on a day-to-day at this point in time, what a paralegal does on a day-to-day, you know, then I need their input. They have to be part of this team to make this successful.

To be successful, that is really crucial. So what do you think for aspiring CIOs who are listening right now, how do they gain buy-in from executives who may not understand the technology? How did you do it?

I think there's a couple of different things there. One is being honest and open with the leadership team and what you need from them and what your expectations of them are and what you're capable of delivering. And two is also having the leadership— is being able to communicate in a way that the leadership team understands the language. And a lot of times, especially in technology, I've It's funny 'cause I was actually at a high school graduation this weekend and I was talking to a group of people, attendees, and we were talking about acronyms and how acronyms mean different things in different lines of businesses.

Yeah.

So you're in the medical field and you have your set of acronyms that you use that you and I having a conversation, I'm a technologist working for the DA's office, I don't necessarily understand those acronyms and that language. So I need you to break that down to me in layman's terms.

Yes.

Me being a technologist, I'm speaking to an attorney or I'm speaking to a doctor, I need to be able to break that down into ways that they can understand. So I love using analogies, because I think that's one of the easiest and best ways. And one of the analogies that I use, like with my CFO, when we start talking about cybersecurity business, I say, hey, look, I'm a Navy guy, right? And we're in this wooden ship, right, in the middle of the ocean, and it has these holes in it, right? And we need to plug these holes.

Yes.

So I'm buying a firewall to plug this hole that's below the waterline. And, you know, anything below the waterline is a higher risk, anything above is a lower risk. A bigger hole is a bigger risk, the smaller hole is a smaller risk, right? And these are placed all throughout the boat, and the boat's taking on water. So these tools are plugging those holes. That helped him to understand that, hey, just because I bought, you know, a firewall, and I'm now saying that I need to buy an endpoint protection solution, that this round peg that's, you know, 4 inches in diameter can't plug this 2-inch, you know, hole, you know, and so forth. And so just having that analogy, talking about routing and IP addresses, I say, well, think about the post office, and then, you know, you have your, your address, the street name, where you have your building number, the street name, and you have the zip code, right? And I said, that's routing, and, you know, and broke it down. And so then it— wow, stuff that they could understand, right, and they could relate to. I think that's how you end up getting the buy-in. And try to avoid the, the, the scare, fear tactics, you know.

I think FUD, right? Fear, uncertainty, and doubt, right?

Right, exactly, exactly.

Wow, that is really powerful. Let's talk about cybersecurity and public trust. Wow, we're already running out of time. I can't believe this. Let me ask you this. So you've served in a role where cyber breaches could impact criminal investigation, victims, law enforcement, partners, and public trust. And I believe you said the first week, I think, when you got your job, you were actually able to save a life, which is pretty awesome. Not many CIOs can say that. So how does that responsibility shape your cybersecurity strategy?

Well, I make it— it makes what we do very important and real.

Yes.

I think that there's no greater sense of responsibility and duty and commitment when you see the results of your work.

Hmm.

Up close and personal.

Yes, right.

You know, it's, it's, it's one thing, like, you know, I worked for Central IT, you know, before taking on this role for the city, and Central IT provided some services to the DA's office, but we were a step or two or three removed from the actual work that the DA's office does. Yeah, now I am right next to that work. I'm seeing the results of what it is that we do.. And so that empowers me and my team to want to do more, to want to do better, because we see the direct effects of what it is that we do and how it helps and changes the community.

That is really, really powerful, having that sense of purpose. I love it. So as I guess I'm going to need to land this plane in the next 10 minutes or so, I can't believe we've We've been speaking for almost 45 minutes already, but let's talk about AI technology and the future. So we first met, I think it was a couple of weeks ago at the security conference in the city. And of course, these last 2 or 3 years, all we talked about mostly is AI. So let's talk about AI for a minute. So artificial intelligence is really changing every single industry right now. How do you see AI impacting public safety legal operation and government over the next 5 years?

Well, well, I think AI is here to stay. There's no doubt about that. It will impact the government. It will impact public safety. I think the, the jury is still out on exactly how that's going to, to impact, because I think it also depends on what level of federal government or public safety you are, first from a federal level versus a state level versus a local level. And then what cities, you know, San Francisco is being a very conservative city. We have, you know, surveillance ordinance practices in place to kind of prevent and protect people from, I'm not going to say necessarily AI, but AI, I think, is one of those tools that are going to help enhance the public safety from an officer standpoint, ability to be able to do their job.

Right?

You know, like we have Flock cameras that capture license plate number, and you can put in a license plate number and, and it will alarm you wherever that vehicle may be when it hits one of those cameras, right? Um, San Francisco is very slow to adopt that type of technology because of fear about being able to protect people's personal information and identities, whereas other cities, um, are a little bit more aggressive in it. Yeah, we want to do this. We won't, you know, um, we have a different mindset and opinion about it. But we do have tools that we leverage to help our attorneys in being able to kind of find the needle in the haystack when they're reviewing case files. Yeah, you know, a case file from a misdemeanor case can be, you know, 20, 30 pages, to, you know, a more serious crime having 300, 400, 600 pages worth Wow. Information and video and audio files that an attorney has to go through. And so being able to have AI to help parse through that information that makes it searchable and that you can query against, that's factually based upon just that set of information without any outside influence is very important because one of the things that we have to be cautious about is ensuring that when we go into court that we're providing factual data, and there's no hallucination in our data.

Yes.

Wow.

So what, what do you think are some of the risks about emerging tech, especially, uh, uh, AI, that kind of concern you most?

Well, you know, I, I feel like we need to define AI and what is actually AI. I believe that there's— I have a belief that the media and businesses have thrown AI out there as a keyword, but there are solutions that we've had in place for years, such as automation and chatbots and so forth, that vendors are now slapping AI on their, on their box labels. The media is talking about the AI and in this sense, but We as the organization need to determine what is the problem that we're trying to solve.

Yes.

And then is AI the right solution to solve that problem, right? But we have to define first and foremost what is AI to us, because I feel like it's powerful.

Yeah, because I feel like a lot of vendors always talk about like the silver bullet, and of course AI is selling, so everybody is going to be using that in order to sell whatever, you know. Product or services they, they might have. So how do you think, how can organizations adopt emerging technologies like AI responsibly without exposing themselves to unnecessary risk?

Well, I think it goes back to first and foremost is understanding what is the problem that we're trying to solve, how does AI help us solve this problem, what protections do we have for the data that is required for this AI solution to be able to solve this problem? Do we have a governance committee, you know, put together? Do we have governance around the data? Have we standardized that data and cleaned that data up? Um, have we consolidated that data? You know, in organizations you may have siloed data that, um, like for instance, our attorneys may be using one set of data, you know, for the work that they're doing, and our investigators are working off a different set of data. But yet it's the same data, but it's two separate siloed sections of data because this is owned by, you know, investigators and this is owned by attorneys, right? Well, when you try to merge that data together, how consistent and accurate does that data become? So I think those are kind of the four steps. You gotta, you gotta understand the problem. Understand when API is the right solution. What is our governance around that data? Let's consolidate and standardize that data to make sure that we have clean data moving forward.

That is so important because that is really the foundation, right? Because even when you use AI, what you get out is dependent on what you put in, how you, how you trade it in. That is so wonderful. Okay, we have our first question from the audience. Daniel Young, who is a very active member of our tribe here, he says, do you agree that cameras add to public safety so that you have eyes and multiple spaces?

Yes, I do believe that cameras are capable of providing additional security, not necessarily in the sense that they're going to prevent something from happening, but if something should happen, you have that video evidence of what took place. And then something, as I mentioned, you know, earlier, like the Flock cameras, where, you know, it's capturing license plate information that you can put you know, that license plate number into that vehicle. And anytime that vehicle passes one of those flock cameras, alarm is triggered. It then helps you be able to track down potential defendants or maybe even victims, you know, of crimes.

Are there any safeguards that you think should be added to that type of technology, especially when you use it for public safety?

Absolutely. I believe safeguards are, you know, first and foremost ensuring that only those who actually need access to that information and data have access to it so that, you know, it's not being used because, hey, I'm trying to track down my daughter's boyfriend, you know, and see where he's going, or I'm trying to track down my spouse who's not at home.

Yes.

You know, at 10 o'clock at night or wherever that the case may be. So you want to make sure that it's it's authorized use only, and that there are specific incidents or cases that are associated with that search so that you don't have people in there willy-nilly just searching because, you know, I'm curious about how this technology works. So even myself, like, I have access— I use Flock as an example— I have access to Flock, and, you know, and I go through the training, they're like, oh, put in, you know, a license plate, and I'm like, I don't want to put in a license plate. I mean, I don't have a need to put in somebody's license plate, you know, so I'll use my own license plate. But I was like, but this doesn't really work that well because I said I know exactly where my car is, it's parked in the garage, you know. But, uh, but I can't historically go back and look and say, oh well, yeah, I was on my way to work, I passed through these intersections, and yes, there's a camera there. Yeah.

Wow, it's really interesting what type of world we live in today, isn't it? I'm so glad I'm living in 2023. 1976, right? Not in 1776, but it's just incredible. So as we end the show, I want to ask you, so you've gone from being an E-1, E-5, and now you are a senior executive, CIO, a C-level executive there, San Francisco District Attorney Office. I want you to think about leadership and what advice would you have for junior enlisted member of any branch of the military like you and I used to be, or even, even junior officers too, who would aspire to become either a senior enlisted leader or a commander. What leadership advice would you give them? What advice would you give to DP2 Erman Brown with everything you've learned and lived through so far?

I would say the first piece of advice I would give is to realize and understand that people are your most valued asset. Even with AI, people are still the most valued asset.

Yes.

And then in understanding that is having empathy, sympathy, respect. For, you know, for people.

Yes.

And understanding, um, that, you know, everyone is different. It requires different communication, different leadership style to be able to bring the best out of your team and the people that you're working with.

That is really powerful. So for this last segment, let me ask you, um, What do you believe is the secret of your success?

I, I believe the secret to my success is probably just what I just mentioned, you know, in the, in the previous statement, is my team. I, I give my kudos teams, uh, at least once a week, you know, when I help my team meetings, I, I tell them how much I appreciate them, how much that You know, my success has been based upon, you know, their dedication to the mission, to the job, their loyalty, their trust. I'm glad and thankful that I have earned their trust and that I trust them in making, you know, decisions. I empower them to make decisions.

Nice.

And it's all about teamwork and understanding and knowing that not everyone or anyone will operate at 100% or 120% of the time every day, you know, 365 days out of a year. We're humans. We go through, go through things, you know, whether that's, you know, the happy things of getting married, you know, having, you know, children, or birthdays, anniversaries, graduations, to, you know, um, losing family members.

Yes.

You know, we have those times. So we also need that empathy and sympathy and understanding during those times as well, and being able to help them as a unit get through those, those difficult times and let them know that, yeah, we're here to help them.

Yeah, I feel like in Silicon Valley we need more emotional intelligence, for, for sure. Empathy is so powerful. What is one of the greatest lessons you think you've learned throughout your life, whether in leadership or in life in general?

You know, one of the things that I, that I, that I learned that I experienced myself was stifling of a career. I worked for a company and I had applied for an engineer trainee position. And I did not get that position. It was given to a junior, younger person who had been with the company a month or two, and had no real experience. And I spoke to my supervisor one, one afternoon as I was leaving the office, and he noticed a difference in my, my attitude and my body language. And he was asking me what was wrong. And I was like, well, you know, I'm really just disappointed disappointed that, you know, I didn't get that trainee position. You know, I'm very open about my intentions of wanting to become an engineer and continuing to move up the ranks, you know, within the organization. And he apologized to me, and I was like, well, why are you apologizing? And he was like, well, they came to me and they asked me the question about you and the other guy— which one would I be willing to give up, you know, which one I would recommend for the for the position. And he says, and I told them, I thought that you would be the better engineer and that you deserved it. But I couldn't afford to lose you. Therefore, they could take the other guy.

Oh my goodness.

Right. And so because I was so good at my job, I was held back.

Yes.

All right. And so that is something that has stuck with me. And I tell my team to this day, and all my teams that I've led is that my— I see my role as a leader, as a manager, is to help you reach your full potential. Yes, I may not want to see you leave to go to another organization, but also, if that is your desire, I also want to make sure that you're prepared to take on that next step in that role. So it's my job to prepare you for that, and to give you the tools, and wisdom, and knowledge, and experience to be able to, to move on to bigger and better things. What you desire. So I'm excited for your creativity. Yeah, you're—

you're—

wow, that is true leadership. Thank you for sharing that. I know leaders are learners. What are you learning these days?

I'm learning, um, I'm learning AI. I mean, I have spent the last couple of months, um, doing audiobooks about AI and, you know, and reading up on Cloud and ChatGPT and the tens of thousands of others out there and just trying to wrap my head around, hey, what is the right solution? How does this solution benefit me versus what do I need to know versus what is it that's not relevant to me at this particular point in time on this AI journey? I tell my team that AI is not going to replace them, but people who know AI are going to replace them.

That is, that is so, so true. So what, what about failure? We talk a lot about successes, but how has failure shaped your life?

Uh, it's a learning opportunity, right? You know, I love to say that I have never failed, you know, in my career, but I, I have failed. You know, I've had projects where they didn't go quite as we had planned, and we had to to go back to take a few steps back and or even start from scratch. But I think it has made me a stronger person, a more understanding person, and also a more driven person to take a deeper look at making sure that I have, I have tried to discover or every possible risk or misstep that we could possibly make in this project and try to account for it or counter it. But knowing that there's always a level of we don't know what we don't know until we get into the weeds of things sometimes.

True.

But just being prepared that, hey, we, we may run into that. When we do, let's come up with the best solution possible.

Let's try to learn from it and not repeat That is quite powerful, using failure as a learning event, and that helps you get better, not bitter. So, so powerful. Is there maybe like a song, a book, or a movie that would be your life's theme or anthem?

Well, I joke and I say, you know, Drake, you know, "Started at the bottom, now I'm at the top." You know, kind of going back to, you know, your earlier point about, you know, going enlisted, being an E-1, you know, in the military, to now being a CIO. I hit all those rings to get to where I am today. So I started my career at the bottom, and now I'm at the top of my career. That's powerful.

Very inspiring. Yes. Wow. What about a book? If you could recommend one book to my audience, which book would book would you recommend?

Uh, what book? Rich Dad Poor Dad?

Yeah, yeah, uh, Robert Kiyosaki. And it's not actually not just Robert Kiyosaki, but Sharon Lechter too. She was the one who co-wrote the book. Sometimes people forget about her. I interviewed her last time, uh, season last year. I think it was in June, July. Wonderful, wonderful woman. Uh, thank you for sharing that. Okay, as we, we come to the end— sorry, I think I've already taken 7 extra minutes, I'm going to close this in the next couple of minutes. Uh, if, uh, you had one and only one day to live, what would you have liked your final contribution to be?

Yeah, that's a, that's a difficult question, a very difficult question, because I think my greatest success are my children. Right. And I would hope that my work ethic, my, my, my leadership, the opportunities and times that they were able to come to work with me to understand what it is that I do, and see how I operate and how I lead and how I interact with, with people is something that they would take with them throughout the rest of their lives and their careers. And not just within the workplace, but just in life in general.

Hmm.

You know, I've been told that I, that I have this very genuine sense about me when I, when I speak to people.

Yeah.

And I said, that's because I am genuinely, you know, care about, you know, others. And, and when I'm having those conversations, I am truly trying to make a connection. Now, whether or not this is something that, you know, will be 30 years from now, will still be connected or not, but just in that moment in time, you know, um, when or how your lives may cross again in the future.

Wow, that's powerful. Living in the present but also treating everybody with respect and dignity. That is, that is powerful.

You want to be treated right, that all that is treat others the way that you You want to be true.

Yeah, yeah, that's something my mom and my grandma taught me when I was a kid. I don't know, it's really something when it comes to leadership, success, and really the way to live a great life. I don't think it's like rocket science. It's actually not that complicated, but I guess the challenge is really in the execution, doing what you know is the right thing to do and doing it consistently. Very, very powerful. So if you did have like a magic wand and you could solve any problem in the world, what is the one problem you'd like to solve first thing tomorrow morning?

World hunger. Yeah, I don't know, it's, it's— yeah, yeah, I mean, there's, there's 3 things that come to mind. Okay, so I'm gonna say world hunger homelessness and disease.

Yes.

All right. I mean, I'd love to be able to, you know, for everyone to have housing, you know, shelter.

Yeah.

Love for us to find cures for things such as cancer and Ebola and COVID and all these other things that are out there that does not mutate our immunity system or change us.

You know, um, yeah, because I feel like this is really tragic. You and I, we live in Silicon Valley, one of the most expensive zip codes in the world, but we still have people here who are completely homeless and some kids who don't know where the next meal is going to come from. And then next door you have billionaires, actually soon to be trillionaires. That doesn't make any sense at all, does it?

No, it doesn't.

Having more money than God, more money than they can ever spend in 20 lifetimes. Yes.

But, uh, well, I know the— I was asked the question, like, what would you do if you were to win the lotto? And I said, well, you know, it depends on how much, you know, we're talking. But, you know, to your point, is there's only a certain amount of money that you need to be able to live, yes, comfortably or very well. And then there's outrageous. And I think there's nothing wrong with living very well. I think there's nothing wrong with living outrageous if that's what you've earned that. But at the same time, how do you live with yourself, especially being here in Silicon Valley and you're at RSA in San Francisco walking down the street and there's obviously a homeless person there. There's women on the corner with their kids begging for food. How do you live with yourself and knowing that I have the means to be able to make this change in someone else's life, you know, drastically? Um, yeah, how do I, how do I put my money to use to be able to do that? And that's one of the things that I would like to do if I were to, to be so fortunate to win the lotto or to come into some, you know, windfall of money like that. Where—

yeah, because one thing I don't understand, we have some of the smartest people here. I think our IQ is of the chart, the innovation, the technology and all of that. But I can't believe we haven't been able to figure out how to solve this homeless problem here just yet. But yeah, it's definitely something my wife and I sometimes we talk about and I'd like to make a difference like you one of these days. Okay, I've already used too much of your time. Sorry for that. As we come to an end, actually before we do, is there a question I should have asked you I didn't get a chance to? Ah, Simon. Okay. Anything else you wanted to talk about before we end?

Oh gosh, I mean, I think we could probably do a whole nother hour or 2-hour segment of just talking. I enjoy, you know, these types of conversations. I enjoy putting myself out there hoping that others are able to learn. I would recommend, you know, and ask that, hey, if you have a question for me, reach out to me on LinkedIn. I know my profile has been shared. Yes, connection. I do respond to people. I apologize if I'm a day or two slow in responding sometimes, but I'm busy and I travel. But thank you for having me. And I, and you know, BZ, I don't even know what to call you because, you know, I see Commander and I was like, I want to call you Commander and I want to snap to attention and salute you, you know. Yes, but, but thank you very much. I am sincerely humbled and appreciative of you asking me to be a part of your, your podcast.

No, I, I am really humbled to be talking to you because you are one of those few people in, in America, less than 1% now they say, joined the military. Not only you serve in uniform with honor, but now even out of uniform you're making such a great, great, uh, difference. And, uh I think we need to really amplify voices like yours. The work you do in IT with the district attorney and public safety, I think that's extremely, extremely important. So thank you. Thank you, sir, for being one of our master teachers today, and I really appreciate it. I guess the last question I am going to ask you is, what is something you are feeling optimistic about these days?

What am I feeling optimistic about? The future of our youth, especially as we move further into this world of AI. Yeah, I'm hoping that they do not allow AI to, to take over their critical thinking skills. Mm-hmm. Right. And that they look at AI as a tool to better the world.

Yes.

And not as a replacement for people.

Powerful, powerful. I think this is needed so much right now because I believe all of the commencement speeches I've seen, there were a few people including Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google, when they talked about AI, all of the graduating seniors were booing. No, no, we don't want AI. And Yeah, I feel like we need to use it responsibly and ethically. I think that that needs to become— I'm really surprised we don't have an AI regulation in America. Even China now has regulation on AI. Of course, the European Union is far ahead of us. They started with GDPR. We don't really have a modern privacy law here in the US except Privacy Act from what, 1974, 1976, that is completely outpaced with modern technology and, and life. Yeah, I think our Congress needs to do better.

Uh, well, I think it's because we're such a capitalistic society, right? And so right now it's all about how do we make money, um, from AI and, and any other, you know, tool and so forth. And then we get to a point where like, okay, we've made, you know, enough money, or Yeah, you know, the, the peak is— it's, it's kind of plateaued now. So now let's start talking about regulations and how we want to wrangle this in.

What I don't understand is at least one teenager died because of AI. I remember it was in Florida last year. So a child dies, no regulation, nothing. The government doesn't, doesn't care. I just can't understand that.

Yeah, well, let's look at gun laws. Right? And how many people die from, from gunshots? Or true, true. And we still can't get legislation passed to be able to, to keep guns out of, you know, kids' hands, and, or people who have mental health issues that shouldn't have, you know, guns. And why do people need, you know, AK-47s or these automatic, you know, rifles and automatic handguns? Um, they say, yeah, for self-protection, but you're not in This is, you know, I hate to say this, but we're not in the Middle East in some war-ravaged country where, you know, we need that type of protection because we're worried about the militia coming to get us.

And then we are, we are citizens, not, uh, service members from, from an army. But yeah, I, I see, I see your point. I guess that's one thing I really hope, uh, as a society we would really, uh, focus on quickly. I think it is a shame that we haven't done anything yet. Anyway, I wanted to add on an optimistic note. That's not too optimistic, but these are some of the realities we face. And I guess I do hope that it gets better. Maybe you and I need to run for office someday. But okay, to end the show, thanks again for giving us extra time today. What is one word that represents our shared experience on this podcast today, Armin? One word.

One word. Love. Love.

I love that. I love that. And you know what? I used to really think a lot that leadership in one word would be influence. And I think that's still true. But the older I get, I feel like leadership is love. You loving the young people who report to you, taking care of them, loving the mission of your organization and loving what you do and always doing the right thing no matter what. I think that courage to love, and especially right now too in our nation, I think it's so divided. I remember I was here during 9/11, one of the worst days of my life. But 9/12 was so beautiful. I've never seen America so united. It didn't matter if you were white, black, man, woman, Democrat or Republican. That didn't matter. We were one nation truly under God. And I really hope and I pray that we get back to that again soon. But thank you so much, Armen. Your last, last words.

No, I'm just going to say thank you, and I do see love as also being influence.

Yes, yes, I couldn't agree more. Thanks, thanks again for being one of our master teachers today. D. Pitu Ehrman-Brown, CIO, San Francisco District Attorney Office. Really, really appreciate you sharing your wisdom with my audience today. Thank you, sir.

Thank you for having me.

All right, this is one for the book. Thank you so much for watching, and as you guys know, really quickly, we do celebrate Black History Year here on the Leadership and Success Podcast. So for today, we are June 2nd, 2026. June 2nd, 2015, 97 years after his heroic action on the battlefield in France, Private Henry Johnson was finally awarded the Medal of Honor by President Barack Obama, the US military highest award for valor. So I've written an article about that, and you can go ahead and read about it. But this was a private sergeant. He became a sergeant after the war. He was a private at the time, Henry Johnson. I think I'm going to write a leadership article about his life and the all-Black 369th Infantry Regiment from Harlem. They really went to Europe, they kicked ass, and many of them didn't get the recognition they deserved. It looks like it was because of racism and white supremacy back then, but we do want to honor them and remember them. And then the last thing I want to Remember, today for Black History Month is the one and only, I think everybody knows him, the very first African-American ambassador to the United Nations. That is Andrew Young. He was also, I believe, the first Black mayor of Atlanta. Civil rights leader, he was a mentee of Martin Luther King. So I'm going to play a very quick video about the life and legacy of Reverend Andrew Young. We just want to remember them. They've really had a huge impact. On our life and our society. All right. That's all I have for now. And tomorrow I'm gonna be interviewing Coach Barry. He's a Maxwell Certified Leadership Coach like myself. And then the day after tomorrow, I'm gonna be talking to Jean Murray. She's a bestselling book author. That's going to be on Thursday. So we have a couple of great shows. Coming your way. Thank you so much for watching. Bye for now.

Ambassador Andrew Young is known to wear many hats: politician, pastor, diplomat, activist, and author.

His political career includes being a U.S. representative in Congress, the first African-American ambassador to the United Nations, the 55th mayor of Atlanta, and the co-chair of the Centennial Olympic Games in Atlanta.

Our Atlanta bureau chief Archit Seshadri sits down one-on-one with Andrew Young in this special report, A Legacy of Leadership.

Andrew Young has worn many hats throughout his career, including being the mayor of Atlanta, a former UN ambassador, politician, as well as an activist. But he says setting up the Andrew Young Foundation about 15 years ago full fulfills his life purpose. The organization helps communities around the world to feed the homeless, help educate people, and clothe people who are poor. And he says that is his mission, to do things that people typically would not do. Born in New Orleans back in 1932, Ambassador Andrew Young is looking back at some of the key moments in his life. He initially studied to be a dentist and went to Howard University, but says destiny had other plans for I've had a good life, starting out as a preacher in small churches in rural Alabama and Georgia.

Then I spent 4 years in New York with the National Council of Churches. Then in 1960, when the student sit-ins started, We sold our home in New York and came back to Atlanta. I learned to live with people who were different and who disagreed with me and whom I disagreed with. But my father always said, don't get mad, get smart. Said if you lose your temper in a fight, you lose the fight.

Young says he drew inspiration from leaders like Martin Luther King Jr. and Mahatma Gandhi, focusing on leading with nonviolence.

I remember we were in a march in Chicago and it was— this young lady came up to him and called him names and said, "Get out of town." He just looked at her and he said, "You know, you're much too beautiful to be so mean." And she Shocked her. And when we came back, she ran out in front of the demonstration and said, Dr. King, I'm sorry, you were right. I'm sorry I was so mean.

Young says he returned to Atlanta to be part of the change in the South.

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