S5:E132🎙️ CSM Samuel H. Zoker, DBA, USA (Ret.)

¡Hola!

Hi, I'm John Maxwell. When the top companies in the world are looking for trainers, speakers, and coaches, there's one name that stands above the rest, and that's Maxwell Leadership. Our certified team members have gotten proven results for companies all over the globe, and our reputation, I'm proud to say, is second to none. Some of our members have risen to the top of their profession, including the one you're going to meet today. I proudly introduce you to my friend Bob Fabien Zinga.

Welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ, where we help you lead with purpose and succeed with impact. If you're ready to grow into the kind of leader others want to follow, this podcast is for you. If you're determined to elevate your success and leave a lasting legacy, this podcast is for you. As my mentor, Dr. John C. Maxwell, reminds us, everything rises and falls on leadership. Our goal is simple: to inspire you, challenge you, and equip you with insights that can transform the trajectory of your leadership journey. Welcome aboard to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast with Coach BZ.

All right, welcome everyone to another episode of the Leadership and Success Podcast, and thank you so much for joining us live today. And do we have a treat for you, uh, but before I introduce my guest, I'm reminded to, uh, start with our moment of gratitude. Every single time we meet, we want to take just a moment to be grateful every single time. Like my mentor said so many times, you know, your attitude will determine your altitude. So what are you grateful for today? So for those who watch the show, you know the drill. If you would please go ahead and close your eyes and go to your happy place, take a deep breath, and think about one thing you are grateful for right now? I think for me, I am really grateful that I am still alive. Okay. No matter the challenges we are facing right now, I am still alive. That means there is hope for me. That means that my tomorrow can be significantly better than my today. So I am grateful for that. So let us know, please, where are you joining us from? What city? What state? Since we are now global, if outside of the US, which country? And also what are you grateful for. And if you have a question for my guest, go ahead and type the question in the comment and we will be answering you live from LinkedIn and YouTube. All right. So let me see if I can properly introduce my guest. I am so excited today. Thank you for joining us for a live experience for really an inspiring conversation with Coach Shery Mackleroy. She's an educational leader, a principal, a Maxwell Leadership Certified Coach, a speaker, an author, and passionate advocate for helping people discover their God-given purpose and unlock their full potential. She has more than 30 years of experience. She has been transforming lives through education, leadership development, coaching, personal growth, and she's known as the Queen of Fun. And you're gonna be discovering that in just a moment. But beyond all of that joyful spirit, Coach Shery is really a leader who has helped transform struggling schools into nationally recognized institutions. She has developed countless educators and leaders and inspired people to live and lead with purpose. So as leaders, we often ask, right, why am I here? What impact am I meant to make? And how do I discover and fulfill my leadership calling? Well, Coach Cherie has dedicated her life to helping others answer just those type of questions. Part of what you're gonna be learning today is how to discover your leadership calling, but also the inspiration behind her children's book, Purposefully Made. And whether you are a naval officer aspiring to command or a cybersecurity professional, this conversation I think will challenge you to think differently about leadership and purpose. And as Coach Cherie often reminds us, Growth is a process. It takes planning, time, nurturing, and commitment. So without any further ado, please help me welcome to the Leadership and Success Podcast, the one and only Coach Sherry McLaurin. Good afternoon, Coach. How are you doing today?

Good afternoon. I'm great. How are you doing today?

Wonderful, wonderful. I'm so, so, so glad to be talking to you today. Maybe to get started, what is one thing you are grateful for today?

Today I am grateful for answered prayer. I have been praying for something very specific, and about 30 minutes before this call, my boss called me and I'm getting a new assistant principal. And I—

that's awesome—

I'm getting a new assistant principal, and she said yes verbally. So that is a huge answer to prayer.

That is so wonderful. Actually, my wife is in the, uh, education world too. Last time she taught was second grade, if you can believe that. Now she's teaching piano, but it's just incredible. You guys are really, really making such a huge, huge difference because I really do believe our children are truly our future. Is there something about you that most people may not know when they first meet you?

Well, I've been given the nickname the Queen of Fun, and I think what people don't know about me is I'm also a little bit of a daredevil. I love adventures, and I say yes to really fun experiences and excursions that other people might be afraid to do. And I'll give you one example. I have a friend who retired from the military, and he owned a Russian L-39 jet, and he took me up in that jet, and I got to fly it and do barrel rolls, and wow, and I felt like I was naval or aircraft, and I decided that I really liked that experience. I would, I would love to go back and do that one day in my future.

Wow, that is really, really amazing.

So if any of your military friends like want to take me up on a flight, the answer would be yes.

I think I read one of your articles. I think you were pretty much telling people to always say yes to whatever opportunities come their way. That's a great way of living.

I can say no as well.

Yes.

Wow.

So you've spent more than 30 years as an educator, a principal, a coach, an author, a speaker, and a Maxwell Leadership Certified Coach. So you're helping people discover their purpose and unlock their potential. So let's start at the beginning. What leadership lesson took you the longest to learn?

Hmm, probably that leadership is about other people. It's really not about me. And as long as I keep my focus on the people that I'm serving, no matter what line of work, that's what leadership is to me. It's about other people and helping other people.

Now, you mentioned that, so you are the Queen of Fun. When people hear that, though, what do they misunderstand about the seriousness of your leadership philosophy?

You know, I feel like life is really hard. But I believe joy can show up in the most unexpected places, like a superpower that people have. And if, if I can lighten a day by saying something funny, or wearing a silly costume, or telling someone a funny story, I believe that inspires people. And like, I, I meet so many people that have hardships in life, and I— my life is not without hardship. I have had some terrible things occur in my life, but what I want to do is always turn it back to joy. And so for me, uh, you know, making, making learning fun, making it engaging, the wonder factor of, of really growth and learning. And it's not just about school, it's about life. I like to show up and have fun at a restaurant or for someone's birthday or at church in a small group. If I can bring some joy to someone's life, I love to do that.

Well, something you said, even yourself sometimes you go through moments of tragedy or challenges. What do you think is the secret of your success or people like you where everybody goes through similar event or challenges, but some people, they turn it into triumph like you, but other people, they let that bitterness pretty much kill them. What is the difference, you think?

You know, I think there are several factors that can be the difference. One is, I think, your temperament, the way you show up can have an effect on how you respond and react to hardship. I also believe— I'm a person of faith. And so for me, keeping my gaze fixed on, on God and on my faith helps me to not focus on the problem but focus on the person who's going to walk with me through the hardship or through the trouble. I realize that I'm not alone in this world. I have someone with me who's for me and who's gone before me. So no matter what hardship I enter, no matter what season of life or difficulty comes my way, yes, if I take my gaze off of him and put it on myself, then it's going to seem like I'm drowning. But when I keep my gaze on him, um, I know that he will be the one that will lead me through.

That's really powerful because for those who are believers, now the Bible says, greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. That really gives you a different perspective, doesn't it?

It does. Thank you. Yes.

Wow. So you have helped transform a struggling school into a nationally recognized high-performing school. What do you think was one of the first leadership changes that made the biggest difference in that transformation?

You know, it was such an interesting journey. It was a poverty-ridden school in the Atlanta area where I went in and I started as an academic coach, really just invited in to say, what can we do academically to help students who don't know how to read and write that should know how to read and write. And we realized very quickly, we did an assessment and realized very quickly as a team that these students' basic needs were not being met. Many of them did not have lunch or dinner. You know, we were providing them a free breakfast and a free lunch, but on the weekends they didn't have the money to have food. Many of them were not adequately clothes, and many of them lived in a single-parent household where the parent would be working and they were kind of raising themselves a little bit, and they just needed a support group and a network of people to take care of the basic needs so that they could come to school and be ready to learn. And so our team really had to assess all those pieces and figure out, right, what can we do about those things first so that students show up to school able and ready, and that they have the same advantage to learn that other children might have had. So we put in a mentorship program, we partnered with a local church, um, and provided food. We started a food bank. In fact, my mother, uh, her church group started a— they would go to Costco and they would buy bulk food. And I would— it started in a, like, a food pantry in a 4-drawer filing cabinet where children who didn't have food on the weekend could a grocery bag, or I'd provide a grocery bag. We'd load them with really kind of high-protein snacks and fruit that my Sunday school class put together, throw them in a bag, and I'd say, okay, take these home and share them with your brothers and sisters, and, you know, come back next weekend and we'll get you some more. So now I recently was invited back to the school that we transformed for a retirement party, and when I walked in, my little 4-door filing cabinet— now they have an entire classroom. Wow. Or the ceiling, like a food bank with freezers and refrigerators. So providing for basic needs so that people can show up ready to grow and learn. Um, if, if you're in survival mode all the time, you can't access learning. So that was first. Um, and then we systematically put in place some structures and, uh, coached teachers and trained people and collected data and had cycles, kind of like coaching cycle, but we basically coach children how to read, how to write. And I will tell you this because it's really fun to talk about. When I, when I started at that school, the reading scores were in the 24th percentile, which is really, really low. And it was a large school. We had around 750, 800 students at the school. And the year that we became nationally recognized, our reading scores were in the 94th percentile. And Children were thriving. It was just such a fun experience. That's amazing. And I did not do it by myself at all. There was complete team approach, but we had a mission and we went in and decided we would do everything we can to meet the needs of these learners and these children who needed a support group. And we put in mentoring programs. In fact, I mentored a little boy that was about the same age as my son at the time. That's amazing. And when I would go places, this boy would come with my son and I and We took him to carnivals at the church, or one day we went to Dick's Sporting Goods and shopped for sporting goods equipment, just to give them a life outside of the only thing they knew and let them realize there are so many opportunities and possibilities and that you have potential.

That is really, really amazing. I remember I used to be a mentor for Big Brother Big Sister. You can really, really make a huge difference. Life of a little child. Wow, that's amazing. What did that experience teach you about leading people? Because it looks like for some people, when they face those challenges, they're like, okay, this is not my job description, right? This is outside of what I'm supposed to do. But it looks like you really went above and beyond, and you really look at that humanity, and you really made a huge, huge difference. What did that teach you?

I feel like leadership is caring about the person that's directly in front of you in the moment. And making them feel seen and known and seeing beyond the surface. So you can look at a person and think, oh, they look like they have it all together. And some people, for whatever reason, maybe it's vulnerability or pride or fear, some people won't open up and let you know what their life is really like. But just caring deeply for people is a leadership lesson. And it doesn't matter what line of work you're in, you have to care about the people that have been entrusted to you and, and see them and know them for who they are, and then try to help them. If you can meet a need or accommodate something that they need, an accommodation, I believe that is leadership at its finest. And it's, it's serving people, um, but to serve them well, you have to know them.

That is so powerful. I think Maya Angelou was the one who said, people will forget what you say, but they never forget how you make them feel. And then, of course, Papa John's taught us to have great value, to value people, and to add value to people. That can be so transformational. So many leaders, they like to just focus on strategy. But you focus on people. Why is that?

Well, this is going to go back to my faith again. I really believe a foundational principle and a value that I have is that people are made in the image of a Most High God, and he doesn't make anyone that is junk or not worthy. I mean, he, he made you. He gave you the thumbprint that you have on your finger. You are unique and you are wonderfully made. And there are so many biblical principles around just who we are. And yes, I really believe that he made me in his image and he made you in his image. And he made everyone, then they're valuable too. And one of the things John says sometimes is, you know, when he looks at people, he sees a 10 on their forehead, if you're ranking people on a basis of 1 to 10. And I love that idea. I love that I look at people and I see them and I think, wow, you're who they are and what gifts and talents God gave them. Yes, are different from me. I can't wait to get to know them better and be curious about them and And maybe if I can add value, but usually people end up adding value to me when I'm trying to serve them.

I really love that. I need to find the exact quote, but another quote Papa John said that really touched me is many times when people look at other people, they feel like, hey, something is wrong with you and I'm here to help. That's kind of the mindset they have. And I think that's really the wrong mindset. But when you really, truly, truly care for people, no matter who they are, their gender, their race, or even their religion or whatever. That really makes a huge, huge difference, doesn't it?

It makes a huge difference, yes.

Wow.

I think at that heart of being a servant leader, you know, and just caring for people, um, everybody matters and everyone has a story.

That is, that is really, really, really powerful. And I think the quote I was thinking about, it says, "The way you see people shapes the way you treat them," right? If I see you as hurting, I will want to help. If I see you as broken, I will want to fix. If I see you as inconvenient, I will want to ignore. But if I see you as valuable, I will want to serve. And great leaders choose to see the value in others first.

That's great. I love that. Wow.

So you're looking back over the past 30 years or so. What separates leaders who grow from leaders who just kind of plateau?

I believe that leaders who grow are in a constant state of learning. They remain humble. They remain hungry. They look around and think, how can I help make whatever this situation is better? No matter where they are, like it could be in your home, it could be in your workplace, um, could be in the world. Like I look around and think there are so many things that I could say are wrong with our world, and that— but I have to look and say, well, what could I do about it? How could I, how could I be part of the solution to that? And so I think leaders are ever ever-growing, ever looking for the solution, and then just caring for the people in front of them. I think, you know, making a difference in the life of one person can be just as magnificent as making the difference in the life of thousands of people. And so the one that's right in front of me has to be the one I'm caring for in that moment.

That's really powerful. Of course, we already said you are known as the Queen of Fun, but I would dare to say you are the Queen of Purpose too, right? You've written two books about it, purposefully made, which is really, really powerful. I guess a question I have for you is, you frequently say that people were created on purpose for a purpose. So how does that belief change the way you lead or how leaders should lead?

You know, such a great question. And I struggled when I was younger with believing that there was purpose in my life. And it's part of why it is my passion to help other people discover their purpose. And so I think I went on a journey. My mother was very instrumental in helping shape who I am and me discovering my own purpose.

Yes.

And sometimes I think we all human beings can either get discouraged or be uncertain or feel stuck and wonder, well, why am I here? And what am I supposed to be doing with my life? And I meet people all the time that are maybe transitioning from one job to another job or maybe a student who's about to go to college or graduate from college, and they don't know what to major in, and they don't know what, what they're supposed to do or be when they grow up. But what I believe is that God gives us clues at a very young age about who we were created to be, and he gives each of us very unique and very different gifts, and that our job is to discover our giftedness Yes. And then use those gifts and those abilities to grow and change and make the world a better place. And so that's why I, I guess I'm super passionate about purpose and I love, particularly with young children, I, I did a, the children's book. I started with that one. That was my first book and it came kind of out of my grief. My mother passed away a couple of years ago and I wrote a poem and the poem ended up becoming this children's book. And it really is a way to honor her memory. But also, she spoke so much into me to help me discover who I was by letting me try things. I think that's where maybe some of my adventuresome spirit comes from. She would allow me to take risks in a small, safe way, or discover or explore. I wasn't allowed to watch TV very much when I was a child. I In fact, she limited us when I was really young. We were allowed to watch 1 hour a week. I had 3 siblings and we had to negotiate which— what we were going to watch because we were going to watch that 1 hour altogether. So that gave us a lot of time to have to be creative and discover. We played, we created games, we built forts, we rode go-karts, and we grew a garden and had a business. So all these things that we learned, it was like, okay, I learned all these wonderful things at a very young age, but what am I really good at and what am I meant to do with the learning that has been placed in my life? And so, um, becoming an educator was part of that story. I, uh, at one time I wanted to be a race car driver and a radio DJ, um, I didn't want to be a Top Gun pilot. I mean, who doesn't want to be a Top Gun pilot? That is— but at the end of the day, I learned that I was really good at communicating with children and adults. And in the education space, you have to be able to do both.

Yes.

And also caring for people, a service industry. My job is not a lucrative one. However, the benefits that I get from serving other people, you know, while they may not be financial in nature, they are They are definitely in the purpose factor. Like, if I could put deposit purpose jar, I would say I believe that I've added value by helping other people discover their gifts and their purpose in life. And that's part of why I wrote two books about it. I'm very passionate about helping people, and honestly, asking the right questions around purpose seems to be the key because so many people I meet are stuck or they're floundering. Or like, I'll give you a very specific example because this is— it's kind of sweet and I'll try not to cry, but my next door neighbor was my mother's best friend. And after my mom passed away, we ended up buying my mom and dad's house and moved in. And so her best friend is now my next door neighbor and she's amazing. I love her and she's Well, she's in her 80s, and she is just an amazingly godly, sweet woman. Well, her husband passed away right around the time that my book, the children's book, was about to be published. And I didn't have a hard copy of it yet, but I had a notebook where I had printed the proofs. And I called her one day, just was checking in, being a good neighbor. And her name's Miss Gloria. And I'm like, Miss Gloria, can I walk over? I want to show you something really cool that's about to happen. And So I get over there and, um, I read the dedication. It's dedicated to my mom. And so of course she teared up and I teared up a little. And she says, well, I want you to read it to me. Will you read the book out loud to me? And I was like, you want me to read my children's book out loud to you? She's like, yes. So I read it out loud. And at the end of— it was the first person other than children that I read it out loud to. She teared up and she started crying. And she's like, Wow, you didn't write this book for children, you wrote this book for me. I'm like, well, what do you mean by that? Tell me more. I said, because I'm going to use this for marketing material. Well, she says, you know, I've been married— I was married to Mr. James for so many years, and my purpose was to be his wife and to be a mother to my kids. And she says, I'm a widow now, and I find myself in a new season, and I need to discover what I'm good at so I can add value to other people on our street and other people in our And I'm like, wow, that's pretty powerful that an adult who for years has served people so beautifully in her community— yeah, she needed a reminder that there's still purpose for her life. Since that time, I've— several people in my area— I live in the Atlanta area and I shop at a little farmer's market, and one of my friends who runs this farmer's market Her, her mother is in a home for people who have memory care, memory problems. So I had gifted her a copy of the book and said, hey, you know, if you want to take this. So now they've told me several copies, she and her sister, and they read the book. And there's one lady in the nursing home that it's the one book that this lady in the nursing home once read to herself over and over again. And I'm like, it's so uncanny to me that people who've lived a long, full life Yes. Still want to be reminded that there is a purpose. Uh, you, you are on this earth for a reason and you get the privilege of discovering what that reason is and then to use your gifts to impact the world for good. Like it doesn't get any better than that. Once you can discover what your purposes are, and I believe people can have multiple purposes in life, you know, uh, if we're open to it.

Wow, that is really, really powerful. Thank you so much for sharing that. I guess you didn't really expect that all the people will be the one really having so much benefit from your children's book. Why, why do you think is that message so powerful and it crosses, uh, gen— generations?

I think it's because we all want to feel like we contribute to something bigger than ourselves.

Yes.

And I also feel like we live in a world that constantly is comparing— we compare ourselves to each other. And I don't believe we were created to compare ourselves to each other. I believe we were created for uniqueness, uh, the diversity of people around the world. Like, I love the idea that no two thumbprints are the same. That tells me that we have this creative God who has great big creative plans.

Yes.

And I just wonder sometimes at the untapped potential because people so want to be just like everyone else. I'm like, wow, well, what if you discovered who you were meant to be and you went after it with every fiber of your being and I cheer you on?

Yes.

Because I want to see what you're going to do. And then you cheered me on in the race that I'm running. Like, I wonder what our world would be like if if we had more people that would jump on that bandwagon of let's cheer each other on rather than compare and compete with one another or try to one-up, or the ladder climbers. Okay, they're the people that it's so hard for me. Um, I, I want to love all people, and but I'm like, okay, we don't have to step on each other to, to do good things on this earth. Why can't we just cheer one another on?

Wow. And in the green room, we were talking, you told me one of your best books, and mine too, is the 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth. So how has personal growth played in your leadership success?

So, wow, that's such a great question, and I do love that book. Oh, it's so powerful. Um, I guess several ways. I feel like if I'm not growing and learning I can't lead well. I, I want to constantly be modeling. I mean, I'm in the education space. If I'm going to ask children and adults to learn and grow, and yet I'm not willing to do that myself, I'm not being a very good role model. The thing is, I'm just curious. I'm full of wonder, and I love to learn about topics that are not my field. Like, sitting down and asking people who are different than me about their life or their story or their work. I'm fascinated by, by people whose gifts are different than mine. I got to listen one of your podcasts the other day that I listened to. You had an expert on AI talking on the episode I was streaming, and I was like, wow, I'd like to sit down and talk to this guy because He knows things I don't know in a space that I'm so curious about, particularly in the field of education, the ethics around it and the, the cool things that AI can do for us. But to pick the brain of somebody who knows so much more than I do would be so much fun. So I don't know. I think remaining curious about other people and about learning, that propels growth. And I have to be willing to be vulnerable enough to say, I don't know everything.

Yes.

Yes. And humble enough to say, hmm, I think you know more than me. Would you be willing to teach me what you know? And I will say this, when you have a little kid in your office, which I sometimes have little kids in my office and they know something that I don't know and I ask them to teach me the trick or whatever they're doing. They light up because they realize they're smarter than me in a way, and I'm, I'm honoring the fact, the way God made them smart. And I feel like it's that way with everyone. And I think people are hungry to feel valued and to understand that they're uniquely wired, that they're different. Um, I don't know, that's just, I think people are just so hungry to feel validated. For who they are.

That is really powerful, no? Humility, validation, and collaboration. I think it was Oprah Winfrey, when she had the show, she would talk to some of the most famous people around the world, but she would say even when she talked to them, including President Obama or Nelson Mandela, at the end of the show, they would kind of come to her, "Did I do okay? Like, was I fine? Did I say what I was supposed to say?" Everybody wants that validation no matter who they are, and that really kind of Really, it almost shocked me, but how no matter who you are and where you come from, on some basic level, we are really all the same. We just want to be understood and validated. Isn't that powerful?

It is so powerful. It starts when they're little. Like, I think about little children that'll work for a gold star on a chart.

Yes.

Mighty face. Like, we kind of we kind of train validation a little bit. But, um, I believe that ties in so much, like, with my faith. Uh, one of my favorite Bible verses is, uh, from Zephaniah 3:17, and it talks about that the Lord your God is with you, and he's this mighty warrior who he came to save. And but then it says he rejoices over you with you, yeah, and he renews you with his love. I think to myself sometimes, I'm like, okay, there is a God in heaven who's rejoicing over me Wow. Singing. Why? Like, I don't feel all that special, but boy, do I love that idea that someone thinks so much about me and so highly of me that, that they rejoice over me. Okay, that's kind of cool.

No, that is, that is really, really, uh, powerful. I, I just found it, right? The Lord thy God in the midst of he is mighty. So everybody would agree to that. But then he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy, you will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. That is so, so very powerful. I think if anybody's having a bad day right now and if they believe that, that's going to change their perspective, isn't it?

It hopefully will. I, I love the encouragement that we can get from God's word. I think that's amazing. Tying it in. And that was a verse when my mom picked my name. I don't know why that verse was attached to Sherry, my name. And so for since I was a little girl, that has been like a life verse that I've leaned into. And, you know, I must have needed it because that's the validation I need right there. I don't need validation from the world. Now, if somebody tells me good job, I'll smile and, you know, grin and, and hopefully enjoy it, but I, I don't need other people's validation. I can march to the beat of my own drum and walk in this confidence that, okay, there's this great big God who loves me and sings over me, so I'm just gonna walk worthy of the calling he's put on my life. I'm gonna walk in a manner that's worthy of him.

That is really, really powerful. You met me— you reminded me of somebody else who lives in Atlanta too, on Tal Peri. We used to say It doesn't matter if 1,000 people go against you. If you get one validation from God, that's all you need. And that really shows resilience and focus. And just, I think that's really in the mindset. That's why I believe some people are able to just overcome really tragedies and just challenges that most other people just falter under. It's just incredible, the resilience, the joy, the purpose. You get when you have that type of mindset, isn't it?

It is. I agree.

Wow. So what daily habit have contributed most to your own growth journey, you think?

Probably I do have a daily habit of gratitude. I love how you open your show with a moment of gratitude. And I think every day I have to choose gratitude because every day is not a cupcake walk. Every day is not fun. In education space. And if I choose to focus on the hard or what didn't go well, that's not good. But if I look back on my day and say, okay, what, what am I most grateful for in this day? And even if it was a hard one, what learning am I grateful for that, that I got out of the hard thing that I might have had to navigate? Um, so gratitude definitely I also, I, I love to have daily prayer and, you know, just quiet Bible reading time. And currently reading Nehemiah right now. I feel like I'm rebuilding a wall.

Yes.

And, uh, so yeah, just that prayer and Bible study. I also, I have a stationary bike in my bedroom, and sometimes there's just something about having some physical activity where I pretend like I'm riding like the wind in a There's something really great about that, Sue.

That's powerful, powerful. Is there one coaching question that every leader should ask themselves regularly?

Probably more of the "How am I growing?" You know, or "What am I reading to propel me forward, to help me stay ahead of the curve?" I like to win. My temperament's like, I like to, if I play a game with people, I play to win. Some people don't love that about me, so I have to watch my competitive nature. But I feel like if I'm growing, then I'm winning. And that is probably the biggest leadership lesson. If I'm remaining stagnant, or if I get in the comfort zone and I stay in that comfort zone and don't level myself up, then— I don't want it to sound legalistic because it's not, it's just I have this personal goal of being the very best version of myself. Yes, that I can be. And that may— like, maybe I reflect after a conversation and I say, wow, I did not like the way that conversation went. So how can I grow from that? How would I have that same conversation differently the next time? What would I have prepared ahead of time? What might I have asked differently, what posture. Because sometimes, you know, our attitude can determine our altitude. And, you know, if I came in and I'm upset before I walk in— I'll use my family as a family conflict, can happen in families— but, you know, if I come in and I'm grumpy toward my husband, then I'm probably not going to have the very best conversation with my husband I could have. So I just think remaining focused on our own personal growth is the biggest leadership lesson Wow. And then making it about other people, um, you know, because when you're grumpy and you're focused on yourself, you are not about other people. You're just— you're looking inward rather than outward.

That is so powerful. What a wonderful, wonderful lesson and reminder. I like that. If I go, I win. And you mentioned artificial intelligence earlier. How do you feel like artificial intelligence is going to impact the world of education and leadership development?

I feel like it's already impacting it. And kids are so far ahead of adults when it comes to technology. I mean, they've been raised on it. And some of us that are different—

Hold on. It looks like we just lost—

Did we lose one another?

Yeah, you are back. You were saying the kids are—

Sorry, we're having some thunderstorms here in Atlanta. So sorry about that. No, I think that we have to embrace it. Educators have to embrace this.

Yes.

Because it's a tool. It's here. I think back years ago when email became a thing and people thought, oh, this will never last.

Yes.

I'm like, this is kind of cool. We should embrace this. And now, like, snail mail is kind of becoming the thing of the time. Yeah. Email, we don't, we don't know how we'd live without it. I think of cell phones too. I remember when I was a kid, you know, the only people that had cell phones— or it was a car phone then, you know— they didn't have them. And so new technologies, I think, come and go all the time. But AI to me is such a powerful tool, the way it's, um, collecting data. It can generate research so quickly. I remember writing research papers back in the day and thinking, this painful. Like, I wish AI had been around when I was working on my master's degree where it could have helped me with all the quantitative data analysis. So I feel like we're in this whole new world of opportunity, but I also believe there are ethics around it and parameters that have to be put in place. Nothing can replace basic skills like learning to read and write and do mathematics. And then soft skills. Oh my goodness, the human part of learning is such a big part of what I believe in.

People—

AI cannot replace a human interaction or a human touch with someone. And for me, I've got to find the great blend as an educator of, okay, how much AI do I bring into the classroom because it's here and I, I need to embrace it, And then how many social skills or soft skills do I need to teach? Or also the critical thinking part around it, because you cannot believe everything that's generated. So I have to filter this through a grid of truth and wisdom and knowledge. And so I don't know, I'm super excited about it and I do have fun. Oh, I have so much fun playing with it. There are amazing tools on AI right now that get me excited about the future of education. Um, I'm not sure yet. I, I lean in every time I can hear a speaker talk about it. I'm like, okay, prompts are good, I need to learn how to do better prompts, or, well, how could I use it to do this part of my life and make it more efficient and effective? Um, so I hear people theorize around that it will replace jobs, but I'm kind of like, well, nobody can replace human thinking and human interaction. Like, if we're showing up for the people, like we talked about earlier, like, that's, that's not going away.

Wow, that is so, so powerful. We are already, uh, running out of time. I can't believe it. So I absolutely need to talk about your best-selling book, this one, Purposefully Made, right? 52 weeks devotional journey to help you soar with purpose. Why did this book have to be written?

This book had to be written because it came out after the children's book, and I had so many people in a different age bracket talking about how they wanted to discover their purpose, and I felt so compelled to write kind of biblical, biblically aligned lessons that correlated with some of the things my mother did with me. And so I thought, I'm going to turn this into a devotional coaching book. So it's, it's a, it does have a scripture verse. Most of the episodes, most of the, I'm going to call them episodes, most of the devotional weeks have a personal story about a lesson that I learned or an activity that I did that my mother or someone else may have helped me in discovering my purpose. And then there's reflective questions, coaching questions. And then the last part is an action step, because I don't believe you can discover your purpose unless you take an action step to try to discover your purpose. And so I wrote it kind of thinking— I had a lot of, uh, kids in high school or college age that would pick my brain or say, will you do a mock interview with me, or look at my resume, or will you help me decide what you think I should be grow up. And so I would talk to different people, and I love talking to them. And I thought, wow, if we could have some kind of a devotional book that would step by step, week by week, give them— here's one task I want you to do this week. I want you to reflect on this thought. I want you to— well, there are different action steps. Each of the 52 weeks have something different that they're asked to do. Um, more likely to to discover how they're wired, what their gifts are, and possibly what they might be being called to do, um, if they work through this 52-week devotional.

That's really amazing. So for an entire year, they can go through your book and really discover purpose. In the title, you say to help you soar with purpose. What do you mean by soaring with purpose?

I meet people all the time that are not even surviving And I think we were, we were put on this earth to thrive and to soar. And if I'm not taking steps to discover how I'm wired, I'm probably not going to soar. I'm probably going to sit on my sofa and eat snacks and watch TV, which would not be very good for me. But if I'm taking action steps to reflect on who I am and how God made me and discovering his plan for my life, I can't help but soar because I'm, I'm, it's not about me anymore. It's about what I'm called to do and who I'm called to serve. And so that's the hope that people who read this, I will say it's been out a little over a month and a half and I'm starting to get feedback from people. They're sending me messages to let me know, hey, I'm on week 4 and I, I started weeping like I was going through the questions and I'm not, it'll make you cry. I'm just saying One person told me, I never really thought about my gifts. I never really thought I had anything special. And to hear someone who is reflected and has started identifying their specialness, that, that I'm like, okay, this is so good.

That's amazing. That's really amazing. So for those who are listening right now, again, I want everybody to consider going right now. It's available everywhere books are sold. Get a copy of Purposefully Made. Now, when they read your book, Coach, if they need to remember one and only one lesson from the book, what would you want it to be?

I don't know that I could limit it to one, but also, okay, I feel like if we can remember that taking action steps is a key, really, to any growth journey. And if you're soaring in your purpose, you are growing. You are constantly seeking out, how can I get better at this? I, I don't want to settle for just, you know, status quo. I want to be the best version of me that I can be. What does that look like? And really, I feel like each week of the journey, like, some of the week, one One of the weeks is about, you know, you can find your purpose if you go out and serve someone. So that week you're supposed to pick someone that you haven't ever served before. It could be going to a nursing home, or maybe volunteer in a nursery and watch babies, or possibly you go find an elementary school and say, could I come read a story to little kids? But do something out of your norm where you are serving someone else because you will discover either, yes, this is part of my purpose, or that's not part of my purpose, but boy, I really appreciate the people who do this week in and week out. And I think purpose is about not just ourselves, but being grateful for the purpose God has for other people and celebrating our differences and our diversity of thinking. That's just one of them. Another one that I really love, um, and my mother used to do this when I was a child, but we— she would take us on learning lunches, and sometimes she'd invite people into our home almost every Sunday afternoon. She was a great cook, and she loved to meet new people because she was an Army brat who— my grandfather was a chaplain in the Army, and so my mom traveled all over the world with him. So we never met a stranger, and she kept that happening in our home. And so people who maybe didn't have a home-cooked meal to go to, she would invite them in. We would become their family. And we had a lot of missionaries who would come into our home or just walks of life. Like she served at the Boys and Girls Club of America. So she'd meet a young mom who was single and she'd say, why don't you come have Sunday lunch with us? Those learning lunches to me, sitting there and being curious about other people. Helped me discover my purpose and helped me learn about other people. And I encourage young people who are trying to discover, okay, what do I want to be when I grow up? That seems to be a question that, you know, is asked a lot in the education space. And I'll say, well, you know what, why don't you pick a career that seems kind of interesting to you and reach out to someone who has that career, and you pay for their lunch, but you call them and you say, 'Could I buy you lunch one day? I would like to hear about your career.' I said, 'Most of the time people are going to say yes because you're going to give them a free lunch, and then you're going to go and you're going to ask them all kinds of questions.' And that's what my mom used to do for us, and it was just so life-giving.

Amazing.

And it made me appreciate— like, I loved especially when we would have missionary families come in, because I didn't— I have not traveled the world. I've been to two really cool places outside of the United States to date. I plan to go other places, but people who lived from in different countries from me, I loved hearing about their lives. And my mother— my grandfather was stationed in Japan when my mother was in middle school. And so from the time I was a little girl, she would— she wanted us to— wow— love other cultures. So we would have Japanese meals, and she would cook the Japanese food that she had learned to cook when she was in Japan and we'd wear kimonos. And I don't remember all the other names of the other outfits. I just knew I wore a kimono and thought I was all that, you know, getting to do it. But I feel like so much of what's in that book, that is just a little nugget of go to lunch with somebody that you, that you are going to be curious about and you may discover your purpose. And if you don't discover your purpose, you're going to develop an appreciation for that other person and what they do. And have made a new friend or networked with a new person.

That is really, really terrific. I think in some way that's what I am doing on this podcast as well. I meet new people, experts, and just get different views on certain things. Now, when you meet people doesn't mean that you believe or you agree with everything they say, but at least they challenge your thinking, and that is so important. And in a way, you kind of helps you also validate, okay, maybe I should try that or maybe not. And I also love what you said, right, about serving and just volunteering and trying to do something that is really good for somebody else, even though you yourself may be challenged at times. Because I've seen it in my own life and my family, when we go through tough times, there is nothing that gives you more joy than when you go to like a food bank or something and you help other people and you see how lucky and how blessed you truly, truly are compared to some other people. And that gives you so much fulfillment and also that attitude of gratitude. Yes, I may be going through this temporary season, but I am so glad that God is so good to me. I am not where, you know, so many other people in my own community are. And I think that, that, that really helps.

I think it's so good, and it's true, when we step outside of ourselves we become more grateful. And so true, it's one of the keys to leadership.

So, uh, I see that we're going to be running out of time pretty, pretty quickly. I have more questions to ask. I haven't even started with the second book yet. So let me ask you this really, really quickly, uh, which one would you choose, purpose or passion?

Purpose.

Okay. Faith or fear?

Faith.

Growth or comfort?

Growth.

Legacy or success?

Legacy.

Okay, now why?

Because all of those are outside of myself and about other people. And I, you know, the older I get, the more I realize it's not about me. And one day when I leave this earth, I hope that I have helped other people. I hope that legacy— I, yeah, I hope that I've helped other people discover that purpose. Um, the faith one, when you said faith over fear, I almost said fear because of the daredevil in me. Oh, I, I do love a good adventure or challenge.

Oh, I like challenge.

Yeah, but I have to have the faith to step out and, you know, do the adventure.

So powerful. So I do want to talk about your first book, so, which is a children's book, Purposefully Matched. So you already told us why you wanted to write it. I guess what I want to ask now is What is the most important lesson you wanted to share with children? Because initially, that's really who this book was written for.

Yeah. So I have children sometimes that come to my office for a lot of different reasons, you know, young children. And I do love to go read aloud in little kids' classes. Yes. The wonder of a book and what they can learn from a story that they can get lost in the story. This particular book, The, the thing that I hope that people who read it get out of it is that each of us has gifts and talents, and that God gave those to us, and that he has a purpose and a plan for our lives. And we were created for a purpose, and our job is to discover what it is. And, you know, a lot of little kids— um, I have a lot of little, little boys at my school that You know, I'm at a pre-K through 12th grade school, and so little bitty kids, you know, you'll, you'll hear them say that they want to be a firefighter, or that seems to be a real popular one with little boys right now. It seems like a lot of them want to be YouTubers. So that's new.

That's new.

Yeah. If I ask them, what do you want to be when you grow up? It's like YouTuber. Kids are so funny. But what I realize is sometimes kids—

well, that is, that is true. However, Vegas, I'm one You may know him, he's a self-help guru. He has like millions of followers. He said his child said the same thing and he was against it at first until his child was able to bring in 6-figure income just doing YouTube. Then he changed his mind.

But anyway, I like that. It's a good story. So good. Yeah, it's just so sweet for children to start discovering that I have something special about me. And I do think— I remember when I was a really young child and I first started going to school, when I was in first grade, I used to line my stuffed animals up and I would come home and I would reteach what my first grade teacher had taught me to these pretend animals. And my mother used to kind of watch me and she would laugh, but yes, he allowed me the exploration to do that. And it, it ended up being really funny to me. Now when I look back, I'm like, okay, even at a very young age If, if adults are paying attention to children and how they're wired, and we're speaking words of life into them and saying, wow, you are really good at building with Legos, like, maybe God has a plan. Maybe you're going to be an architect one day. Maybe God wants to use the way your brain works to engineer some bridge somewhere or something. So I believe this book is meant to help kids and parents start having discussions around what they're good at, what they see. There are some coaching questions. That's a unique thing. I don't know many children's books. I read a lot of them, um, in my world. I used to be a literacy coach years ago, and I think that there's something powerful about a message coming through in a children's book rather than a mom or a dad voice. Yes, because we have this tendency not always to want to listen to what our parents are saying, but if, if somebody else is saying it in a story and then you get to just talk about it or explore it and dive into it with some questions, that's really good. Another part of the book, there's questions for the, the child that maybe you're reading it to, but then there's questions for them to ask about other people, maybe their siblings, maybe their friends school. And so I try to intentionally think like a coach just because of the Maxwell Leadership piece. But I've had parents come back and say, oh, we just love when we get to the coaching questions. And I have a cousin who lives in South Georgia, and I saw her recently at a funeral, and her— she has a grandson, and she told me that about 50% of the time when he comes over to her house, he runs and grabs my book and he wants to curl up in her lap and he wants to talk about it because basically the child becomes the character in the book of, okay, is this me? Am I, you know, was I made to draw or write or cook things?

That's amazing.

Yeah, so it's, it's just, uh, it's a sweet, fun rhyming book. I do love rhyming books for little kids. Um, the, the prosody and process of learning to read Rhythm and rhyme sticks in children's brains, and it have a little repeated phrase in it, and it's really sweet. I— we have Read Across America Day sometimes, um, around Dr. Seuss's birthday. And the month after my book came out, a little girl picked one of the characters in the book that she related with her, and she dressed up like that character and came into school dressed costume for Read Across America Day. And I was like, wow. And I asked her, I'm like, which character did she pick? She turned exactly to that page, a little nurse, a medical nurse. And she says, this is where I saw myself in your book. And I was like, wow. It was an unexpected moment that I, I was like, that is so cool that a little kid was able to see themselves in a story as she's trying to to discover their purpose.

And man, that's so powerful.

It's good. Thank you.

It's really amazing because as a parent, we have two daughters. When they were younger, you really feel like children really are a clean slate, right? And depending on the word of affirmation they get from their parents, their church, their school teachers, or Sunday school teacher, or all of the adult authorities around them, it kind of shapes them whether they become more confident or they have a lot of self-doubt and fear. What role do you think words really play in shaping a child's confidence?

Yeah, that's such a great question. You know, there's a proverb and it's about that there's death and life are in the power of the tongue. I believe that words we speak, most of us, if you think back and reflect on yourself, I can remember criticisms and cruel things that people said to me when I was young that if I let those take root in my brain, they were louder than the thoughts that I think I was supposed to be thinking. And I think we— our tongues are like this two-edged sword, and they have the power to build up or power to tear down. And I, I really believe that in all walks of life. But for adults, um, it saddens me when I look on social media and I see some of the bashing that happens. I'm kind of like, why do we have to do that? Why can't we just if you don't agree with someone's perspective, just don't say anything. Like, just refresh. But if you think somebody's done something really cool, use your words to build them up and encourage them. Um, I love, I love watching people's faces light up when they get just a little bit of an encouragement. And honestly, in my own leadership journey, I like— one of the things Papa John says is, you know, about loaning his belief to you if you don't believe it in yourself. I find there are so many children who do not believe. They've been beaten down, or they've, they've been told they can't, or somebody comes in and does it for them before they can even attempt to try it themselves. Because most of the time we try things, we do not do them perfectly, and we've got to allow kids to take risk and be willing to fail.

Yes.

For them to feel successful. And for me, I want people to try, and if they fail, that's okay. Just say, okay, well, let's try again. And the goal will be a little bit better this time than we did it the first time. That's kind of how I am with my own growth, you know.

I—

the first time you do anything, you're usually not very good at it, but you get better and better and better. And encouragement for me changes everything. In fact, I think John has a book called Encouragement Changes Everything. It's like a little, uh, I think a little gift book that he created years ago. I bought it for people, and it's that little phrase that encouragement changes everything has to do with our children, our friend group, our, our enemies. And I have enemies, enemies, but I like to hang out with the people that are going to build me up. And I don't mind if people tell me the truth, like feedback is a gift.

Yes.

But the way people frame feedback can determine whether or not I want to grow. Like, if I'm beaten down or discouraged, I'm less likely to try it again than if somebody says, oh, this didn't go that well. How about I come alongside you? Let's try it a different way. Or I love that you attempted that. Let's see what we can do the next go around. The way we frame it up and say what we say can have so much impact.

This is really, really amazing. With you, I feel like I could be talking for 2 or 3, even 4 hours, but we're gonna need to land this, this plane soon. But before we do, I do wanna talk at least about this. Can you tell us how our audience can get a free copy of your Grow Reflection Guide?

Sure.

Clarity, Renew Confidence on Your Purpose. And walk forward. And I don't even know why you're giving it away for free. It must be a Papa John thing. But this is just amazing. So much value. How can we get it?

Thank you. Well, so I have a website and it's www.sherrymacleroy.com. And if you scroll down to the bottom of that website— oh, there you go. Look, you're so, you're so tech savvy. Thank you. Yeah, you can just click that and just shoot me an email and I'll send you a free copy and it'll get you started. On a growth journey. Um, and honestly, it's got 4 little components with some coaching questions. I think self-coaching is a skill that's a great one to develop, and part of why I'm giving it away for free is, uh, um, finding your purpose and growing, that's not exclusive to anyone. Everyone should have access to a formula for how, how can I grow. And so the, the purpose of this is to help them gain some clarity Maybe renew confidence if perhaps somebody has discouraged you along the way and has made you feel less than. Or, um, I'll say this, my children's book, I wrote one 25 years ago.

Wow.

And I had one rejection and I never revisited. And 2 years ago I published my first children's book. So it took 25 years to get over the criticism, but I had to gain some confidence. And then I also invited in some accountability and some coaching, hired some people. Okay, I really want to do this. I believe this is part of the legacy that I'm supposed to leave behind one day. And so it's powerful, important to me, and I'm going to do it. And then owning your purpose, like, once you get clarity on what you're supposed to do, um, I love that phrase, like a boss. Like, you need to walk in it. Like, walk worthy of the purpose that you're like called to do. And Um, to last 35 years in the education space— wow, I'm saying I am crazy— but at the end of the day, there is so much going on with kids, adults, and parents, and the opportunity to pour in and love people and help others discover how God wired them and gifted them is like Who wouldn't want to do that? Like, how can somebody give that up? That's the best stuff.

That is really amazing because you are really spelling up the word GROW, right? So G, like you say, that's about gaining clarity. R, we need confidence. You say O is on your purpose. And finally, W is?

The last one is walk forward. And that's about that action step. If you don't walk forward in your purpose. Um, and there's a Bible verse that goes with that. I, I love scripture, but I love the verse that says, walk in a manner worthy of the calling on your life.

Yes.

So if you're— I love that it's an action phrase. We are walking, we are moving forward. And to grow, you're not going to grow if you are not having some kind of momentum, a forward momentum. And the smallest action step is momentum. Um, I, I have a friend who right now is working toward hoping to be an Olympic contender in a, in a racing forum. Um, her name is Emma Grace Hurley, and her mother teaches at my school. And Emma Grace, I've learned so much from watching her on her Olympic quest, because not every day, you know, you don't wake up every day and you don't win every race. Yes, he runs her race with endurance. And for me, growth is like that. Every day I'm going to get up and I'm going to try to have a better day today than I had yesterday. And if I'm working on a project, I love to have a big goal or a big project. I create a vision board every year and move toward, okay, here's the goal for this year, what step do I need to take? I'm going to close the gap from here's where I'm at, here's where I want to be. What steps do I have to take to get from point A to point B? And sometimes it's like 29 steps, other times it's only 3. But if I don't have the momentum and the purpose to take the first step, I'm never going to reach the goal. And I feel like so many people are reluctant or afraid. Yes, maybe it's because of the criticism, or maybe it's perfectionism. Maybe people They're like, okay, I don't have everything perfectly planned out. It doesn't matter. Take the first step, walk forward toward your growth.

So powerful. Yeah, that was the vision for one. So powerful, powerful. Okay. We do need to end the show, but one question I'm going to ask you about your growth guide is, if there is only one lesson that you want the audience to get from the entire guide, which lesson would that be?

I would say probably like when you gain clarity about where you want to, where you want to be. I mentioned, you know, OK, here's where I'm at and here's where I want to be. If I can get clear about that, then the other pieces will fall into place. So discovering and gaining clarity. And but to do that, sometimes, sometimes you need a coach. Sometimes you need somebody to tease it out of you. Sometimes you can coach yourself. One of my favorite mentors is Valerie Burton, and she has this wonderful book for women in leadership called Successful Women Think Differently, and she has another one called Successful Women Speak Differently. One of the things I love— she has several books on coaching that are just fantastic— but she gives you the tools to kind of coach yourself. And so many times for growth— there's Valerie. Yeah, so Valerie coached me And the reason that little children's book came to be, it was already written, but I was too afraid to put myself out there again. And I got picked to be coached on a live stage at Maxwell Leadership in front of 5,000 people, which was a little intimidating and scary. And we went on a journey. And what the outcome of that coaching, one coaching conversation— Wow. That I needed to overcome my fear and take that little poem I had written about, you know, from my mom teaching me, and get it published. And what was so fun is I coached and I had to be held accountable by all the Maxwell team members on a private Facebook group, and I gave monthly updates on my progress, which was very daunting and intimidating, but people did encourage me. And one year later, she invited me back to introduce her on the stage. And before I got there, I had not told her that it had— it was in print. And I was able to present her backstage with that book. And her, her handler person offered to take that picture that you flashed up. And I, I look and think, wow, what would have happened All the people who bought that book, who've told me what a difference it's made, would have missed out if I hadn't taken that step and gained the clarity from that one coaching conversation of what I needed to do next. And that was my question, was I don't know what to do next with my life because I had all these options and I couldn't narrow it. And she helped me narrow it, and that was the result of that coaching conversation.

Wow, that is really, really amazing. And I think I have a picture here of the book she wrote about women. And by the way, even if you're not a woman, sometimes I feel like these leadership principles are universal, so they apply equally to men as well. But there's just so much, so much wisdom. She's really one of the best coaches I have ever met in my life, that is for sure. Well, I'm waiting for the image to load really quickly. Some of the books that you do recommend my audience to read, why should they read this one, Winning with People?

Winning with People. Well, for me, leadership is about people. And we want to win with people. We want them to succeed. And I was— when I picked this book as one of my favorites to talk about, I was telling Coach BZ that I love the titles. John Maxwell is— his humor comes out in this book, and he has really funny titles. And so one of the chapters is called, um, If Bob Has a Problem with Everyone, Bob Might Be the Problem. And it's just such a funny little chapter about somebody named Bob. And then another one is Never Use a Hammer to Swat a Fly Off Someone's Head. And just simple leadership principles, but it made me laugh. And because laughter just diffuses so many things. And the Bob one, I have asked my friends, I'm like, you need to tell me if I'm Bob, if I'm being Bob. Look at me. So powerful.

You mentioned this one by Coach Valerie Burton, Successful Women Think Differently. Why should you read this one?

Oh my goodness. So this book, um, it I think everything surround is surrounded by our thoughts. You know, we're, we're commanded in scripture to hold every thought captive. Yes. And what Valerie does is she frames up coaching questions around your thinking. And some of our mindset about ourselves can either propel our growth or make us feel defeated where we, we will not take those steps forward. So I'd I can't recommend any of her books. They are amazing. I've read almost all of them. I'm in the middle of her new one, The Rules of Resilience, and it is a fabulous read. I just, I read voraciously and haven't finished it yet.

OK, Ryan Lake, another Maxwell Certified Coach, Leveling Up. Why should we read this one?

Oh my goodness. So I love this book so much. When it came out and I got to hear Ryan speak, he has a great little podcast too that I highly recommend. 10 minutes. If you got 10 minutes a day and tap into him. But Leveling Up, he asks 12 questions, and you can work through his questions. They're coaching questions. And if you are stagnant or you feel like, okay, I don't know, I see everybody else around me growing.

Yes.

Why am I not growing? That book, I— it— the, the powerful questions he asks really propel me forward. And the great thing is you buy the book and you're coaching yourself if you just will work through the questions.

Now, this one I'm not too familiar with, but I'm going to add this to my queue by Sam Silverstein, Be Astonishing. What is this book about?

Yeah, so I just started reading this, and I'm not finished with it yet, but I have been so impressed with stories of ordinary people who take their gifts or take service or opportunities to influence the world for good. And it's people that you probably haven't heard of. And what I love is I love when people will showcase people I've never heard of. You know, some people are like Sage on the stage, they're in the spotlight all the time. I've been so grateful for news stories of people who are making a difference in the world. That's Ordinary people making an impact.

And finally, one big favorite of yours and mine, 15 Invaluable Laws of Growth. Why should we read this one?

I would say that of all the books that John Maxwell's written that I've used for masterminds or classes or coaching with people, this book propels growth really more than any other. He is amazing. The questions that he's included the exercises and thoughts. Um, when I do masterminds with people, I like to do interactive activities. I, I don't like to sit very much. I get up and move. But I've used this one multiple times with groups of people, men and women, and many of them come back and say, that book changed my life. And they'll read it year after year. I like to go on a retreat every year, just a personal retreat, and I usually throw that book in when I go on my, you know, by-myself retreat to—

That's amazing.

—work through, OK, how do I want to grow this year? And are there any areas that I need to re-examine?

My goodness, you've taught us so much. And there is so much more we could get out of you. But I am so, so grateful you are here. But we are definitely running out of time. So how can we add value back to you, Coach Rae?

You know, first and foremost, if you're a person of faith, I love when people pray for me. I I feel like prayer is life-changing. And so just if you want to pray for me, the, the— I feel like my work as an educational leader is a ministry, and just pouring into the next generation of people is a big part. And so just pray for me. Um, I also will never turn down anyone who wants to read one of my books or give a review on Amazon. Reviews help new authors, and I'm a relatively new author, uh, it's just an extension really of impact. And I love having impact in the school that I work in, but I realized, you know, that the law of the lid, like the expansion of impact right now with Legacy, is very important. And that's part of why I started writing the books. It's like, wow, how many more people could we reach if this message could get broader and broader and broader? If you wanted support me there. And then, um, really, I, I love to interact with people on social media. I'm on LinkedIn. Um, just, I love encouraging each other. And so tell the stories about yourself so I can encourage you, and invite me to connect with you, and I'll connect. You can connect. I, I want to be an encourager to all of you and really not make it about me, but make it about how can I add value to you. So I do love going and speaking and training people. I love to go into schools and do author visits. That's just amazing. Wow. Good. And then church groups. I love speaking to youth groups and women in leadership or women in church groups, uh, where I get a chance to share what God's doing around purpose and help other people, um, on retreats or ministry opportunities. So thank you for asking.

It's really beautiful, beautiful to see you are on purpose and helping so many other people get on purpose. So I've definitely used too much of your time. Can you give me 2 more minutes and we're going to close with a rapid-fire round? Can we do that?

Absolutely, I can give you 2 more minutes. You can have 5 if you want them.

Okay, thank you. So I'm going to ask a question, don't take too long to think, whatever comes to your mind just let it out. Favorite leadership book? Winning with People. Okay, uh, favorite Bible verse? Zephaniah 3:17. Okay, best leadership advice you have ever received?

That it's not about me.

Okay, most influential mentor?

Oh, I would probably say Valerie Burton.

Okay, what are you reading right now? I think you already answered that.

I did. I'm— well, there's a new book that I didn't mention called Fierce Conversations, and I'm diving into that one. I'm only in one chapter, but it's pretty good.

Do you remember who is the author? Susan Scott. Thank you, we're gonna add that to our digital library. Thanks so much. What is one thing people would be surprised to learn about you? You may have already told us.

Um, I raised chickens when I was a little girl.

Really? Wow, in addition to being a devil, you raised chickens. That's pretty amazing. Okay, if you could have dinner with any historical figure, who would it be?

I would love to sit down with Nehemiah from the Bible. And Jesus. I'd like to have a dinner party, not just one person. I want the whole party. And I'd like Jesus and Peter to be there, and then Nehemiah.

And that's the book you are reading right now too, in the Bible, right?

It is. But he's such a fascinating— building the wall— historical character. Um, yeah. And then, yeah, a bunch of people at that dinner party. Let's— you could— I want you to be there.

That'd be so much fun. Okay. What does success mean to you now? I'm sure your definition of success has changed over the years.

Success for me is adding the most value to people that I possibly can and using my influence for good to help people discover their purpose.

So powerful. Okay. I have one last question for you, but before I ask, is there anything I should have asked you I didn't get the chance to ask? Anything else you wanted to share today?

I can't think of anything you didn't ask me, but I would love to learn more about you. So one day I'm going to ask you some questions because, uh, you've gotten to know me a lot and I would love to get to know you better because you are a really cool human. So I'd love for you to tell me some stories from your military days. I like— I kind of want to sit down and have a learning lunch with you one day. We could get on Zoom together because you are a fascinating amazing, wonderful human being.

Why don't you start a podcast and I will be your guest?

That'd be fun. I would like to do that, maybe in my future when my educational career slows down a little bit. Yes. No, this is just amazing.

It's really, really been a great, great, great pleasure talking to you. This is really the first time we are meeting on screen, but it's like I've known you all of my life. We also align on so So many things. I think it's the Maxwell DNA talking. So, the last question, if your life and leadership journey could be summarized in one sentence that future generations would remember, what would that sentence be?

That you were created on purpose for a great purpose. Purpose. That's it in a nutshell.

That is so powerful because purpose is what's gonna keep you going when everything else around you is telling you to stop. And to quit. Wow, purpose. All right. Thanks so much for teaching us how to get on purpose. And everybody, please get her books. And thanks again. I guess the one question I ask everyone who comes on the show, the very last question is, how would you describe, one word that describes our interaction, our experience on the podcast today? One word.

Remarkable.

You are remarkable. Thank you. I am so grateful. Coach Cherie McLeroy, thank you so much for being our master teacher today. Really appreciate you. Thanks.

Thank you for inviting me. It was a pleasure.

All right, everybody, this is the end of the show. Sorry, this one went a little bit longer. I think it could have gone another hour. I have so much to learn from, from her. But like we've said, please follow her on LinkedIn and it should be on your screen right now. So Cherie McLeroy-M-ED-437797AB, or go to her website, cheriemcleroy.com. And of course get a copy of her books. You have a children's book which we just found out is actually very, very effective with older people, but get the book Purposefully Made and also the one for children, for your children or kids in your Sunday school or your nieces or nephews, Purposefully Made. And of course you can also get the free guide. Absolutely free. I think this guide is probably worth a couple of hundred dollars, but the Grow Reflection Guide, I think if you put this into practice, it will literally change your life. Okay. So this is the end of the show. I'm going to have another podcast today, I believe at 4:00 PM California time. I'm going to be talking to a Command Sergeant Major retired. That's E-9, which is the highest rank for enlisted. Only 2% of people who join the military end up as a Terran. We're going to be talking to Command Sergeant Major Samuel Zocker. He has a doctor of business, uh, US Army retired. We're going to be talking about culture, character, and leadership, building organization where people thrive. And he's the best-selling author of The Culture Shaper. So that's going to be later today. And I believe tomorrow I should be talking with, uh, Mr. Alan Lowe. He is a retired surgeon from the United States Air Force, and he wrote the bestselling book Breakthrough Leadership. And hopefully you can join us. And then on Sunday, I'm talking to someone who's extraordinary. I believe she's a living legend. She was born in New York, but she grew up all over the place. Her name is Dr. Ariel King. She doesn't have just one PhD, not just two PhDs, but she has three doctorates, two PhDs and one doctorate in HTM. She's gonna be talking about Leading with Humanity: Empowering Others to Discover the Treasure Within, and her best book, Humanity Unveiled. And she spent time with legends like Nelson Mandela, like Maya Angelou, and many other dignitaries. She's had time to learn from those people. So I'm really, really looking forward to talking to her this Sunday. I believe it's 6:00 AM our time because she lives in Switzerland. I believe it's 3:00 PM there. So 9:00 AM on the East Coast. So that's all I have planned for you. Again, I hope to see you. Later today when we talk to our command Sergeant Major Zucker. Hopefully, I see you there. So bye for now, and thanks again for watching.

Thank you for tuning in to the Leadership Success Podcast with your host, Coach BZ. If today's episode added value to your leadership journey, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us again for more wisdom nuggets on how to lead better and achieve greater success. Remember, leadership is the most critical skill of our time. The world will always need leaders to inspire others, drive innovation, and execute meaningful strategy. So why not count yourself among the bold leaders shaping the 21st century? Until next time, stay inspired, stay committed, and keep leading with excellence.